Ive been dating a guy the past month. This doesn't sound like a lot but we have literally been with each other every day since our first date. I'm 5 years post op, but he doesn't know.
I wanted to wait until we knew each other better before disclosing, but one thing led to another and after getting caught up in the moment, we have now had sex (several times).
I do wanna tell this guy about my past, but I feel like now it's gone too far for me to tell him. I really like him and can see a future with him but I'm scared of how he might react and equally terrified of him rejecting me.
I know the "right thing" to do would have been disclosing before we slept together but things just happened so quickly and I was scared to tell him in case it ruined what we had.
I don't know what to do, whether to bite the bullet and tell him or break if off with him to avoid having to deal with it.
Has anyone been in a situation like this before where it's ended well?
Thanks!
Quote from: JenJx on March 05, 2019, 09:17:13 AM
Ive been dating a guy the past month. This doesn't sound like a lot but we have literally been with each other every day since our first date. I'm 5 years post op, but he doesn't know.
I wanted to wait until we knew each other better before disclosing, but one thing led to another and after getting caught up in the moment, we have now had sex (several times).
I do wanna tell this guy about my past, but I feel like now it's gone too far for me to tell him. I really like him and can see a future with him but I'm scared of how he might react and equally terrified of him rejecting me.
I know the "right thing" to do would have been disclosing before we slept together but things just happened so quickly and I was scared to tell him in case it ruined what we had.
I don't know what to do, whether to bite the bullet and tell him or break if off with him to avoid having to deal with it.
Has anyone been in a situation like this before where it's ended well?
Thanks!
@JenJx Dear Jen: I am so very glad that you have become a member here and this is
your very first posting. I am happy to see that you found the Susan's Place Forums.
As you post on the forums you will be able to exchange thoughts and comments with others that are experiencing many of the same things that you are. I expect that you will be getting many members offering their thoughts and suggestions as you continue to post here.
This is the right place for you to be to find out what others may have to say that may have been in your circumstances and with your questions and concerns.
There are a lot of members here that will be able to identify with your situation and as you continue to feel free to share with all of us.
I also want to warmly
WELCOME you to Susan's Place.
You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.
As you are certainly aware you can share with others and involve yourself with some give and take with other like-minded members. When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here if you wish and receive support from others
and offer support to others. ....
***There is a very good chance that you might find that you will
make some new like-minded friends here.
Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace.
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@JenJx Oh, and another thing Jen...
Please plan to write a post and tell us more about yourself in the Introductions Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) so that other members will be aware of your arrival... therefore you will be able to share your thoughts with more members here.
Thank you again for joining Susan's Place and being involved in the Forums here.
Best wishes to you,
DanielleNOTE: Now after all of this Greeting Stuff I will let you have your thread back so you can pursue answers to your questions.
Other members here will certainly be along to give you their comments and suggestions that you may be seeking
Breaking it off just to avoid possible rejection seems like a cure worse than the disease. You need to tell him. Until he knows he's not loving the real you. I certainly appreciate how hard it can be to bring up a difficult topic, but the longer you wait the harder it will get. Maybe start a conversation about transgender in the abstract and see what his feelings seem to be? Maybe you can segue into disclosure from that if he seems receptive?
Welcome to Susan's Place!
Folks are going to come in and tell you that your past is none of his business, and they're right. But by the same token, his past is none of your business... hopefully that past doesn't involve transphobia or violence against LGBTIQ people.
Personally, I wouldn't so much as go to dinner with someone without them understanding that I was transgender.
See you around the site.
Hugs, Devlyn
The thought of even bringing the subject up to him in person fills me with dread. I feel like now we have slept together I've gone past the point of no return. Just thinking that he might throw the "you should have told me before we had sex" line at me makes me feel sick, partly because I know it would be a valid point.
I think if I was to tell him, it would have to be over text message. For safety reasons above anything else.
I just hate that this is even a discussion that we need to have. It doesn't get any easier as time goes or the more and more times you have to disclose.
Hi Jen, welcome to Susan's Place!
This is a delicate situation whether you divulge your past immediately or in time. Immediately is probably the best chance of not breaking any hearts, including your own. I think that the longer time moves forward, it may or may not become more difficult. If your relationship is of a caring, loving type he may accept you all the same. Though he may have goals in his life that may not be able to be met, such as children. (There are plenty of children that are in need of homes and family)
My suggestion is for you to make a date in a public venue (for your safety) and explain the situation. Talk about the experiences that you both have had and what you hope for in the future.
Remember that if you find yourself with him in the future, he should be aware of your transition in case medical needs arise that could give him an unexpected shock. And how embarrassing would it be for him if it was revealed by a doctor?
Love is where you find it and should never be discounted because of fear.
Hugs and smiles, Jessica
ps:
@Alaskan Danielle (our
Northern Star*Girl) welcomed you with her grace and charm and some very helpful links to information that will give you the best opportunity to learn and give while here at Susan's Place, please give them a look see 🌸🌸🌸
sorry for the problem that we trans carry with us all the time. I don't know the correct approach , but if it was me I'd slowly feel him out about his view of the LGBT community
Hi, Jen. Welcome!
I am sorry that you find yourself in this predicament. It is going to hurt no matter how you handle it. It is a matter of deciding which hurt is the least.
The sooner you tell him, the less it will hurt. If you don't tell him at all, he will find out eventually, and that will really hurt everyone. It could be the worst possible outcome for you.
I think telling him, in a public place for your safety, is the best option. He then has the option of accepting you - the best outcome of all - or deciding to break it off. If he can't accept you, this is not a relationship that you would have wanted to continue anyway.
Thanks for your replies ladies. I think I will tell him, it's just a matter of when to do it. I feel like doing it over text would be the easiest and safest. I've wrote out a couple of paragraphs already trying to word it the best way, but there's just never a right time to say it.
I feel like we are both in a little bubble of happiness at the moment, and as soon as I tell him the bubble will burst :'(
The thing about disclosing upfront is that the relationship will never come crashing down because the partner found out something about you that they couldn't accept.
Since we know that the overwhelming majority of people don't want to be in a relationship with a transgender person, there's little to be gained by getting involved with them without disclosing.
Quote from: Devlyn on March 05, 2019, 10:54:19 AM
The thing about disclosing upfront is that the relationship will never come crashing down because the partner found out something about you that they couldn't accept.
Since we know that the overwhelming majority of people don't want to be in a relationship with a transgender person, there's little to be gained by getting involved with them without disclosing.
I've found telling people straight off the bat fruitless. They instantly don't want to be involved. Letting someone get to know me first gives a much better chance of being accepted once they've already started to like you for you.
Plus, the way I live my life I don't disclose my trans status to people I've just met. I have friends and co workers who don't know my background and neither should they. Telling people that is something so personal and unnecessary and even disclosing to a complete stranger is something that is near physically impossible for me to do. Maybe that's out of fear or my own issues or whatever, but I just don't feel the need for a stranger or potential date to know that about me.
9 times out of 10 on any first date I go on I will never want to see them again anyway, so what would be the point in going through that big emotional journey with someone when I know it might never lead to even a second meeting.
On this occasion I accept that I should have said sooner (definitely not before the first date) but I didn't and I can't change that now.
Like Devlyn, I tend to disclose quite early on and don't find that it causes me too many issues.
I suspect that my attitude about being trans plays a part in this. I carry no shame or guilt for being trans or having transitioned. Not one bit. I also don't see being trans as anything other than a medical condition that requires appropriate treatment - that being transition.
You should tell your bf sooner than later. But please be safe when you do. Do it in a public place where there are other people around. Prepare for the worst and the outcome might not be as bad.
Stay safe.
Tony
Hi Jen, I know the emotions that you are going through. From my perspective and my experiences, there is never a 'right' time or a 'right' way because situations and personalities are unique. Your heart will know best when to do it and hopefully it will be when you have gotten to know the person and he's had time to know you as well, to a degree where you want to proceed with a relationship. Unfortunately, for women in our situation that step will always be there for us. You've already done the naughty deed, so I suspect you are vested, and as you say "in the bubble of emotions". I remember one time, when I had to do what you are doing, he said he needed time to think --- and think he did. Unfortunate for him, I did thinking as well, so when he came back, it was too late. Such is life. I wish you all the best in your relationship. If you feel he is worth it, then it is worth the rollercoaster ride to tell him no matter the acceptance or rejection.
Quote from: herekitten on March 05, 2019, 02:23:05 PM
Hi Jen, I know the emotions that you are going through. From my perspective and my experiences, there is never a 'right' time or a 'right' way because situations and personalities are unique. Your heart will know best when to do it and hopefully it will be when you have gotten to know the person and he's had time to know you as well, to a degree where you want to proceed with a relationship. Unfortunately, for women in our situation that step will always be there for us. You've already done the naughty deed, so I suspect you are vested, and as you say "in the bubble of emotions". I remember one time, when I had to do what you are doing, he said he needed time to think --- and think he did. Unfortunate for him, I did thinking as well, so when he came back, it was too late. Such is life. I wish you all the best in your relationship. If you feel he is worth it, then it is worth the rollercoaster ride to tell him no matter the acceptance or rejection.
Thank you... that's a really great way of putting things. I really appreciate your kind, understanding words!
If you really do not know how he feels about transgender people, you may consider a telephone call from a safe distance in place of face to face in a public place.
On the other hand, you could gently mention the subject without applying yourself at all just to see his reaction. Maybe you could get his concerns about having children of his own. There are ways of bringing up the subject without outing yourself.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out. We are thinking of you.
Hi Jen, You seem like a very nice person that got into a situation that you did not intend to occur. We all wish we had do overs in life so don't beat yourself up. That said you need to find the courage to tell him. Soon, or better yet even sooner.
Yes take your safety into consideration and be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
I am pretty opinionated about being stealth but I am trying to be more understanding and respectful about that choice. My opinion is probably partially shaped by the fact I don't pass well but I truly in my heart of hearts think it is healthier in the long run to be open. Does that present other problems? Absolutely but I won't go far into that topic.
Just as you want to make your own choices he has the same right to do the same. If someone chooses not to be with someone that is trans that is their right. It may be stupid, narrow minded, bigoted or whatever you want to call it but I think everyone has the right to deal with reality.
I feel for you, you obviously have strong feelings for him and you meant nothing wrong. But you are where you are at with this so do the right thing. Be safe !!!
Wishing you happiness.
Thanks for your replies ladies. I appreciate all of your opinions and advice. I have drafted out a text message which I will send when I feel the time is right. Do you think this sounds ok? I've tried to avoid using the trans/man/boy words so hopefully it softens the blow a bit and doesn't sound too harsh. Any advice or input would also be appreciated!
"There's something I wanted to talk to you about.
To put it bluntly, since I was born, I knew from my very first thoughts that I was different. When my mum was having me there was a chromosome imbalance, so my brain developed one way and my body developed in another way. So I had surgery when I was younger to fix it. I'm a woman in every way, shape and form and that's it. I had a rough start at life, but I fixed it and moved on and I'm past all that now.
I wanted to tell you this sooner, but everything just went so quickly and I got caught up in the moment because I really liked you. I didn't wanna ruin anything and was scared that it might.
I also wanted to get to know you better before telling you to see if I thought this would go anywhere and I hope you can appreciate my reasons for that and also appreciate how hard it is for me to tell you something so personal. I'm a very private person and for me to open up to anyone about this takes a lot. I hope this doesn't change anything. And I hope your only reaction to this is to wanna give me a cuddle, cos I could really do with one now!"
I think it´s a nice message and very neutral. At least that will get you started on the topic and it is not too heavy on details immediately.
If he wants to talk more about it, then you can discuss it in more detail.
Second option being, that he doesn´t want to see you anymore and you haven´t really revealed too much about yourself.
I think it´s ok.
I´ve always said, that I used to have a boy body, but as you can see, not much is left from that, if anything. I am what you see with your eyes. Take it or leave it and make up your mind with your eyes :)
Jen you know the guy better than we do and maybe by text is the right way, for most people in person is going to be better received.
Absolutely do it in a safe (public) place and if there's someone you're out with, having them nearby at the time could also be a good safety net for you.
You'll get no shade from me for not being out. I'm a woman first and having gotten there via hrt and vaginoplasty is just how I got there. If I we're passable I wouldn't hesitate to be stealthy .. and yes I understand that that means there will be times like this for the people you do choose to open up to.
Best wishes, be safe and please do let us know if you're ok, how it went.
Jen, I think this is very well done.
Quote from: JenJx on March 06, 2019, 05:23:44 AM
Thanks for your replies ladies. I appreciate all of your opinions and advice. I have drafted out a text message which I will send when I feel the time is right. Do you think this sounds ok? I've tried to avoid using the trans/man/boy words so hopefully it softens the blow a bit and doesn't sound too harsh. Any advice or input would also be appreciated!
"There's something I wanted to talk to you about.
To put it bluntly, since I was born, I knew from my very first thoughts that I was different. When my mum was having me there was a chromosome imbalance, so my brain developed one way and my body developed in another way. So I had surgery when I was younger to fix it. I'm a woman in every way, shape and form and that's it. I had a rough start at life, but I fixed it and moved on and I'm past all that now.
I wanted to tell you this sooner, but everything just went so quickly and I got caught up in the moment because I really liked you. I didn't wanna ruin anything and was scared that it might.
I also wanted to get to know you better before telling you to see if I thought this would go anywhere and I hope you can appreciate my reasons for that and also appreciate how hard it is for me to tell you something so personal. I'm a very private person and for me to open up to anyone about this takes a lot. I hope this doesn't change anything. And I hope your only reaction to this is to wanna give me a cuddle, cos I could really do with one now!"
Hi Jen - Just my two cents since you asked for opinions. I think overall it was very good, and explains your feelings and how you got here very well.
I understand your reluctance to use very many words like (trans/man/boy) that's not who you are and you don't want to dwell on that - it's fair.
I would suggest at least one sentence that is pretty blunt just saying 'it'. In my reading of it I could see how some people wouldn't fully understand the point. It may be a little too subtle. Just make sure he understands what it is you are trying to clear up.
Only my best wishes for you and I hope this goes great. :)
tell us what happened
I know it will be hard for you to tell him but you do need to be truthful to him as well. It isn't good to be lying to him because he maybe more upset that you have lied. just my 2 cents work. Hope it works out though to!!! Hugs!!! Susan L ;)
Quote from: KimOct on March 06, 2019, 11:34:51 PM
Hi Jen - Just my two cents since you asked for opinions. I think overall it was very good, and explains your feelings and how you got here very well.
I understand your reluctance to use very many words like (trans/man/boy) that's not who you are and you don't want to dwell on that - it's fair.
I would suggest at least one sentence that is pretty blunt just saying 'it'. In my reading of it I could see how some people wouldn't fully understand the point. It may be a little too subtle. Just make sure he understands what it is you are trying to clear up.
Only my best wishes for you and I hope this goes great. :)
Welcome Jen!
I am sorry that you are finding yourself in a very difficult situation. I understand all the feelings you have expressed. Telling EVERYONE that your trans isn't necessary. It is a private matter and not everyone needs to know about it.
You have expressed that you feel like you should have told your boyfriend sooner that you are trans. So I won't pile anything on that! It is what it is, and there is no need to dwell on it. It is part of the past. Recognizing it and letting him know you regret it is important, but don't beat yourself up too hard about it.
Personally I do not enjoy receiving any serious via text. It is void of emotion and can be a bit of a shock. More so than hearing something face to face.
The choice is yours obviously. If you tell him in person or follow up on the text you wrote, definitely follow the other ladies advice and do it somewhere public and/or with a supportive person. Your safety is what's most important.
On the text you wrote. I think you did a good job overall. I agree with Kim that it could be unclear to him what you actually are talking about without a direct statement about being trans or not being born cisgender. If that isn't fully understood by him his mind could go many places and that concern could cause more issues.
I also recommend that if you use texting to break the news, make sure you don't use any improper grammar or abbreviations. This deserves to be taken as seriously by him as possibly.
I'm sure you feel vulnerable right now and you should know that you have our support!
Happy thoughts and good luck girl!
Lacy
Thanks for your replies :)
After speaking to a few girls and friends about this (and a few sleepless nights) I've decided to hold off on telling him just yet. We have had some issues over my job that he doesn't approve of and wants me to leave, so in the long run I'm thinking it might not work out anyway if this continues to be an issue.
He's been away on vacation this week and I pick him up from the airport tomorrow, so I'm gonna see how things go over the next few days before deciding what I will do.
In relation to the text message, I just know myself if I left it to tell him in person I know when the time came I just wouldn't say it, I'd get lost in the moment and the fear of his reaction or ruining the day would completely put me off doing it (cowardly I know, but it's just something I find so hard to talk about). If I done it over text I know once I've pressed send its done and it's worded exactly how I would want it to be.
I get what some of you have said about being vague about the trans thing, but I just feel like it kind of softens the blow, and by his follow up questions etc obviously I would go in to more detail.
I've had a lovely direct message from somebody on here too but it doesn't let me reply (this it's because I've not posted so much) but I will keep you updated how things go!
Only thing I can add to what everyone else is saying is that to be sure he hears it from you. If there's any way he could reasonably find out in some other way, you need to tell him as soon as you can.
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
My personal opinion on not telling other's before engaging in intimacy is selfish, stupid and plain dangerous. I understand how people feel about their past but I also feel that the other person has a right to know. I feel it's not only fair but it's the moral thing to do. How are we as a community to gain trust and fairness when acts like this are one of the many things society fears from us? I'd say at this point you tell him by text for your own safety. It's that or not tell him at all and risk the news getting out another way.
Quote from: ForeverLacey on March 08, 2019, 12:28:25 PM
My personal opinion on not telling other's before engaging in intimacy is selfish, stupid and plain dangerous. I understand how people feel about their past but I also feel that the other person has a right to know. I feel it's not only fair but it's the moral thing to do. How are we as a community to gain trust and fairness when acts like this are one of the many things society fears from us? I'd say at this point you tell him by text for your own safety. It's that or not tell him at all and risk the news getting out another way.
I think your post is a little judgemental. Fortunately, in my world I am far past trans issues. I live my life as a female first and TS almost last. Being TS isn't something that crosses my mind when I meet new people, romantic or otherwise. I live my life the same as any other female, as I have fought damn hard for that right. As far as I'm concerned, telling a guy my medical history is privileged information which is relayed as and when I see that person is deserving of it.
I understand why people think telling your T should be done before sex, but when you're dating somebody and getting close, things just happen without you even thinking about that, which is what has happened in this case.
Quote from: JenJx on March 08, 2019, 01:35:28 PM
I think your post is a little judgemental. Fortunately, in my world I am far past trans issues. I live my life as a female first and TS almost last. Being TS isn't something that crosses my mind when I meet new people, romantic or otherwise. I live my life the same as any other female, as I have fought damn hard for that right. As far as I'm concerned, telling a guy my medical history is privileged information which is relayed as and when I see that person is deserving of it.
I understand why people think telling your T should be done before sex, but when you're dating somebody and getting close, things just happen without you even thinking about that, which is what has happened in this case.
You couldn't say it better, you have my full support because I think just like you.
I have a different opinion, if you're post OP you shouldn't tell anybody you are trans, when I finally get my post op surgery nobody will ever know what I am
I always tell, due to safety reasons. Too many ts women have lost their lives in the situation, where the other person starts to think you are trans.
I´ve met some men, who obviously are completely unaware that I am trans and that makes me very uncomfortable. Even when they should know, I can tell from the way they say things etc etc, that they don´t consider me as a ts and that is uncomfortable feeling to realize, that what happens if he finds out from some clues that are left no matter how many times you go under the knife.
But...this is the etarnal discussion here ;D
Everybody decides for themselves, but it´s good to also say the otherside of the fence....security versus it´s none of your business...
I think my opinion falls somewhere between Jen's and Lacey's.
Two disclosures about me regarding my opinion.
1. I see few things in life in black and white rather shades of gray. There are two sides to ALMOST every story.
2. I have only had an orchie and don't pass all the time.
That said - I understand how Jen got into this situation. It's not just about this topic. We all get into situations in life we did not necessarily intend. Then our fears of the bad things that might happen cloud our judgment. We didn't start with bad intentions - it just happened. And then we make bad choices.
But as Lacey said - it's the moral thing to do. I agree very strongly with this.
As someone that is not able to be stealth I can imagine the desire to be stealth and I think in most situations that is certainly reasonable. But intimacy ?? I think that is wrong.
I don't care how big a transphobe bigot someone is - I may think they are a jerk - but they have the right to be a jerk.
If they don't want to love us or have sex with us that is their right.
Jen I do feel for you and I know you did not intend this but now you are in a position you should do the right thing.
IMO you are rationalizing why not to do something that you do not want to do.
I am sorry to tell you something you don't want to hear but it is true.
Still wishing you happiness and above all safety.
Kim, it's true for you perhaps, I'm sorry, I don't see where you get to call out true for others. I also disagree that transphobia is ok in any form, just as I have issues with people who objectify trans women, seeking us out for sexual kinks.
Whatever sex may be about, healthy relationships are usually principally about emotionality, love etc. That in turn ideally transcends gender expression .. granted that's not universal either.
And it honestly saddens me to find trans women who've had to break a.lot of societal molds to be who we are then turn and tell someone else how to be trans. I know it's not changing soon, however I can not agree with it. Please see below for my thoughts on how this works (something I've expressed umpteen times before on Susan's)
Back to the OP
Jen, when you first wrote, I had my doubts on your eventual acceptance, there were some small tells that made me wonder. Your recent post about some of his responses to unrelated stuff somewhat cements that for me and I agree that this relationship may not pass the bar of being worth disclosing at all :-(. Obviously I have some hope for that (incurable romantic here!).
My flip side says that some romances are best shot lived, even the ones that truly feel they want to be more (and I just went through a heartbreak like I haven't felt in a long time. The goddess seems to be demanding I learn acceptance :-/
Where I come down on disclosure is a bit theoretical. If we stipulate that if you're going to be even a little bit stealth and if that's okay in life (and I think most people at least agree on that ... I know some who don't). Then there has to be a judgment call somewhere as to when you disclose and there are risks either way I'm not going to enumerate them they're pretty obvious. Too early and you disclose to someone who you may not have had time to establish sufficient trust they may then out you to your entire community to late and yes you may lose some or all trust.
Also for the record while we are very good at talking about the horror stories and the people who get injured. However there's also quite a few women have come on here and talked about telling a lover fairly late in the game that they were trans and finding that they were fully accepted and maybe even more accepted than they have expected no recriminations no problems.
The fact is that are risks to being trans the risks to being in relationship while being trans and there's no fundamental way around that how we manage those risks are personal choices.
I am reminded of the posts I've read here about people talking in their sleep in their male voice. The ways we can be outed, or out ourselves, are numerous.
EDIT: male voice, not mail voice. :laugh:
Quote from: SadieBlake on March 09, 2019, 08:17:30 AM
Kim, it's true for you perhaps, I'm sorry, I don't see where you get to call out true for others. I also disagree that transphobia is ok in any form, just as I have issues with people who objectify trans women, seeking us out for sexual kinks.
Whatever sex may be about, healthy relationships are usually principally about emotionality, love etc. That in turn ideally transcends gender expression .. granted that's not universal either.
And it honestly saddens me to find trans women who've had to break a.lot of societal molds to be who we are then turn and tell someone else how to be trans. I know it's not changing soon, however I can not agree with it. Please see below for my thoughts on how this works (something I've expressed umpteen times before on Susan's)
Back to the OP
Jen, when you first wrote, I had my doubts on your eventual acceptance, there were some small tells that made me wonder. Your recent post about some of his responses to unrelated stuff somewhat cements that for me and I agree that this relationship may not pass the bar of being worth disclosing at all :-(. Obviously I have some hope for that (incurable romantic here!).
My flip side says that some romances are best shot lived, even the ones that truly feel they want to be more (and I just went through a heartbreak like I haven't felt in a long time. The goddess seems to be demanding I learn acceptance :-/
Where I come down on disclosure is a bit theoretical. If we stipulate that if you're going to be even a little bit stealth and if that's okay in life (and I think most people at least agree on that ... I know some who don't). Then there has to be a judgment call somewhere as to when you disclose and there are risks either way I'm not going to enumerate them they're pretty obvious. Too early and you disclose to someone who you may not have had time to establish sufficient trust they may then out you to your entire community to late and yes you may lose some or all trust.
Also for the record while we are very good at talking about the horror stories and the people who get injured. However there's also quite a few women have come on here and talked about telling a lover fairly late in the game that they were trans and finding that they were fully accepted and maybe even more accepted than they have expected no recriminations no problems.
The fact is that are risks to being trans the risks to being in relationship while being trans and there's no fundamental way around that how we manage those risks are personal choices.
Sadie, you are right in that I am still uncertain of the longevity of this relationship as there are other issues that we still haven't managed to figure out (my job being one of them). I think this is one of the reasons why I'm holding back on telling him.
The guy does live fairly close to me (around 15 minutes away) and there are people in my area who know of my past as I live close to where I grew up. After looking through Facebook friends we don't seem to have any mutual connections, but I know that there is still a possibility of other ways of him finding out elsewhere. This is one of the reasons why I am inclined to tell him, so that it comes from me and not anybody else - I do fully agree with that.
After not seeing him for a week it has kind of opened my eyes to the pros and cons of telling him and the relationship in general. So, I am going to pick him up from the airport tonight and spend the rest of the weekend with him. Maybe doing this will give me some clarity of our potential future and what my next steps will be.
Quote from: SadieBlake on March 09, 2019, 08:17:30 AM
Kim, it's true for you perhaps, I'm sorry, I don't see where you get to call out true for others. I also disagree that transphobia is ok in any form, just as I have issues with people who objectify trans women, seeking us out for sexual kinks.
Whatever sex may be about, healthy relationships are usually principally about emotionality, love etc. That in turn ideally transcends gender expression .. granted that's not universal either.
And it honestly saddens me to find trans women who've had to break a.lot of societal molds to be who we are then turn and tell someone else how to be trans. I know it's not changing soon, however I can not agree with it. Please see below for my thoughts on how this works (something I've expressed umpteen times before on Susan's)
Back to the OP
Jen, when you first wrote, I had my doubts on your eventual acceptance, there were some small tells that made me wonder. Your recent post about some of his responses to unrelated stuff somewhat cements that for me and I agree that this relationship may not pass the bar of being worth disclosing at all :-(. Obviously I have some hope for that (incurable romantic here!).
My flip side says that some romances are best shot lived, even the ones that truly feel they want to be more (and I just went through a heartbreak like I haven't felt in a long time. The goddess seems to be demanding I learn acceptance :-/
Where I come down on disclosure is a bit theoretical. If we stipulate that if you're going to be even a little bit stealth and if that's okay in life (and I think most people at least agree on that ... I know some who don't). Then there has to be a judgment call somewhere as to when you disclose and there are risks either way I'm not going to enumerate them they're pretty obvious. Too early and you disclose to someone who you may not have had time to establish sufficient trust they may then out you to your entire community to late and yes you may lose some or all trust.
Also for the record while we are very good at talking about the horror stories and the people who get injured. However there's also quite a few women have come on here and talked about telling a lover fairly late in the game that they were trans and finding that they were fully accepted and maybe even more accepted than they have expected no recriminations no problems.
The fact is that are risks to being trans the risks to being in relationship while being trans and there's no fundamental way around that how we manage those risks are personal choices.
Sadie -
1. I don't think I am calling out Jen. I think I was balanced in understanding that she had no bad intentions.
2. I am not discussing 'how to be trans'. I am talking about honesty.
3. I am not in any way justifying transphobia. Rather I am saying that anyone has the right to their opinions and choices regardless of how stupid, hateful or crappy they may be.
Matter of fact here is the exact quote from my post that you claim to be justifying transphobia which obviously I am not.
I don't care how big a transphobe bigot someone is - I may think they are a jerk - but they have the right to be a jerk.If they don't want to love us or have sex with us that is their right to make that choice no matter how close minded it may be - no one should be having sex under false pretenses or keeping information intentionally that would cause their partner to decide against it. Wouldn't you want the same decency?
Nobody should be with someone that has given the impression that they are something that they are not whether it be by omission or lying. In Jen's case it was certainly omission and not lying.
The situation Jen is faced with is not entirely about being trans it is about being honest.
If she chooses to end the relationship for other reasons then she should end it and if it is truly over then any additional explanation is moot.
Sadie in your first sentence response to me you state that you don't see where I get to call out what is true for others. I think the entire point here is that Jen is not telling him something that may impact the relationship. I can see nothing else other than it is not true.
Jen - I am in no way saying that you are a bad person - or are not being 'trans - correctly'. Also I have sympathy for your position. I have made choices I regretted. We all have. None of us is perfect. I simply gave my opinion that I thought Lacey was being a little too tough and yet you were not dealing with the situation.
At the end of the day Jen the decision is of course yours and no one else's. I assume that posters here want honest opinions and that was my intention.
I continue to wish you well regardless of how you decide to handle this.
Quote from: KimOct on March 09, 2019, 09:00:28 AM
Sadie -
1. I don't think I am calling out Jen. I think I was balanced in understanding that she had no bad intentions.
2. I am not discussing 'how to be trans'. I am talking about honesty.
3. I am not in any way justifying transphobia. Rather I am saying that anyone has the right to their opinions and choices regardless of how stupid, hateful or crappy they may be. Nobody should be with someone that has given the impression that they are something that they are not whether it be by omission or lying. In Jen's case it was certainly omission and not lying.
The situation Jen is faced with is not entirely about being trans it is about being honest.
If she chooses to end the relationship for other reasons then she should end it and if it is truly over then any additional explanation is moot.
Sadie in your first sentence response to me you state that you don't see where I get to call out what is true for others. I think the entire point here is that Jen is not telling him something that may impact the relationship. I can see nothing else other than it is not true.
Jen - I am in no way saying that you are a bad person - or are not being 'trans - correctly'. Also I have sympathy for your position. I have made choices I regretted. We all have. None of us is perfect. I simply gave my opinion that I thought Lacey was being a little too tough and yet you were not dealing with the situation.
At the end of the day Jen the decision is of course yours and no one else's. I assume that posters here want honest opinions and that was my intention.
I continue to wish you well regardless of how you decide to handle this.
Thanks Kim, I do appreciate that you are giving an opinion (which is a fair one) and parts of what you say I do agree with completely. This isn't the first time I've been in a situation like this, and probably won't be the last.
All I want in life is to be treated the same as any other girl, and to have to offload such a huge "secret" to someone you like, which can be detrimental to the future of that relationship, is so soul destroying and makes me feel absolutely awful not only for me but for the other person to have to hear it.
I understand you said you don't "pass" and some of the other comments similar to yours were of a similar opinion to you (in that they state they don't pass). And I think it comes down to exactly that - if you don't pass, you don't actually know what it's like to be in this situation - it's a horrible one. And it's not about being dishonest, it's just about living life, I don't see what I do as being dishonest, otherwise we would all be dishonest every day in everything we done living our lives.
Before I transitioned I used to always say I would tell dates etc and had a VERY strong opinion on that, but after transition and realising I could just date as any other girl, my views changed and slipping in to the female role (rather than the transgender one) just came so naturally.
Sometimes I wish that I didn't pass, that way my truth would be known to everyone up front and the fear of disclosing and ultimately rejection from a lover wouldn't exist - but hey, we are all dealt different cards in life and we just have to play them as best we can.
I do appreciate views from all different angles and from people from all different walks of life.
Hi Jen and thanks for taking a reasonable view of what I am saying as was also my intention toward you. I think you explain your situation in an understandable way and in your response above you are both acknowledging the issue and yet make it understandable.
I like your candor. I am big on that. You seem to understand your feelings and also the issue.
I feel good that you understand the point I was making and yet you do a good job of explaining your feelings and how you got here.
I really do wish you well and long term happiness. :)
Quote from: KimOct on March 09, 2019, 01:11:31 PM
Hi Jen and thanks for taking a reasonable view of what I am saying as was also my intention toward you. I think you explain your situation in an understandable way and in your response above you are both acknowledging the issue and yet make it understandable.
I like your candor. I am big on that. You seem to understand your feelings and also the issue.
I feel good that you understand the point I was making and yet you do a good job of explaining your feelings and how you got here.
I really do wish you well and long term happiness. :)
Thanks so much Kim :)
Quote from: JenJx on March 08, 2019, 01:35:28 PM
I understand why people think telling your T should be done before sex, but when you're dating somebody and getting close, things just happen without you even thinking about that, which is what has happened in this case.
I understand perfectly, I was in this exact same situation 10 years, I always had bad experience with men when I disclosed I was trans, I started to date a wonderful guy about 12 years ago and we got really close and things happened and the relationship was very serious, I just didn't see any reason to tell him, but knew I had to tell him sometime but just kept putting it off, then he proposed marriage and that was when I told him, hardest decision I ever had to make, he didn't get angry but was very shocked, asked a lot of questions about my transition, we got married and he is now my husband, we're now just a normal husband & wife, he does the ''guy stuff'' I do the ''wife stuff'' cooking, cleaning, housekeeping etc we don't discuss it, it's history, his friends etc have no idea, it's our business, he doesn't need the stigma of people knowing ''omg wife used to be a guy'' people can be cruel, hubby completely accepts me as a woman and that's all that matters, let us know how your boyfriend reacts, you might be surprised because I was, my boyfriend only ever knew me as a woman and we got to know each other, he never knew me in my former life.
IMO if one is post-op and stealth there is no moral obligation to "tell" unless things get marriage type serious. If it came out after marriage it could destroy 2 lives...
But before that, if we can manage it, we deserve to be able to lives as who we are and not have to carry the baggage of the misconceptions about TSism into all of our relationships.
As long as one is being emotionally honest with the other person and is just being oneself, that is all we owe unless/until things very serious.
What any individual TS choses to do is up to them and what they feel comfortable with before things get that serious... before that point there is no right or wrong about disclosing or not before sex.
Once things get THAT serious, then the morality can be debated IMO, but I do think one should disclose then because of what could happen if it came out afterwards.
- Karen
I am still reading but I don't feel the need to add anything I have not already. What may not be apparent from my earlier replies is that I do see the other side of this more than my opinion may appear. I took 10 minutes of my visit today and asked my therapist her opinion out of curiosity. She made a couple of good points I had not considered.
EDIT
OK I always am open so I will just say somethings she said. At least the gist of it. Two counter points she made.
1. Think of someone that is mixed race but it is not apparent. Their sexual partner may be a racist. Should the woman tell the guy before sex - oh btw I have a grandparent that is (fill in the blank ) so I am 1/4 (whatever)
That was in response to my contention that the other person should know in case they would change their mind.
She continued by saying that if the guy thinks I'm hot enough to #@(% - she swears a lot LOL - then that doesn't mean I have to disclose everything. The analogy helped me see her point.
2. She said why should gender be any different than any other characteristic - should we stop before sex and discuss religion or political affiliation etc etc. Why does gender have any more standing? Her position was that because as transwomen WE are the ones that make gender a big deal in our head.
Both very good points. She is a rock star and I thought her arguments were good. On the other hand she thought my arguments were also sound. And THAT is why I usually see shades of grey and not black and white.
Tough situation for Jen and anyone else in a similar circumstance. Seems to me there are as many possible outcomes as there are trans-people. Definitely something that should be given thought.
I hope it works out.
Pauline and Karen, thank you so much for your replies. They both put things in to prospective for me and made me realise what I'm doing isn't the worst thing in the world and doesn't make me a monster (which is how I feel sometimes when I think too much in to it).
Kim - again thanks for your input. Your therapist raises some very valid points and are views to which I echo myself. Unfortunately I think on this topic, men and women see it very differently. I find that my girl friends that I've spoke to about this kind of gloss it over like it's no big deal but then I've found guys have a totally different view and think the opposite, that it should be disclosed straight away. And because the situation revolves around a guy it makes it so much more confusing!
I spent the weekend with him when he came back from his family vacation. While he was away he lost his phone and could only call me from his dad's phone. When he got back he said he hadn't been able to speak to any of his friends while he was away and I was the only person he contacted. He asked me to take him up to his dad's the morning after he was back as he had a spare phone he could use (he could put his SIM card in and retreive all the info out of his phone this way too). When he asked me to take him, I had this gut feeling that he was gonna turn the phone on and have a message from one of his friends outing me. I tried to shrug it off but the feeling wouldn't go. I watched him turn the phone on and messages started coming through and my nerves went.
Obviously no such message appeared, but it just left me feeling like I couldn't keep thinking like that and wouldn't wanna live my life looking over my shoulder. I know I need to tell him soon. I just need a bit more time...
Kim, smart woman your therapist :-)
Jen, I agree that men and women see this differently. Unfortunately homophobia is alive and well for a surprising number of people and to me if you care for someone and that changes because you find out that at some time in the past they had a more male wrapper, well that's homophobia.
The thing about not being homophobic, transphobic, racist, classist, ableist etc is if we think we're not and yet can't back that belief in our personal actions then we need reexamine our beliefs.
Pauline, you're far from the first woman I know who's told a story like that, I'm so glad it all worked well for you :-).
Quote from: SadieBlake on March 13, 2019, 10:51:50 AM
Kim, smart woman your therapist :-)
Jen, I agree that men and women see this differently. Unfortunately homophobia is alive and well for a surprising number of people and to me if you care for someone and that changes because you find out that at some time in the past they had a more male wrapper, well that's homophobia.
The thing about not being homophobic, transphobic, racist, classist, ableist etc is if we think we're not and yet can't back that belief in our personal actions then we need reexamine our beliefs.
Pauline, you're far from the first woman I know who's told a story like that, I'm so glad it all worked well for you :-).
Sadie, whilst I wish I could completely agree with your strong views, I think if a guy was to reject a trans woman because of her past (in a non-aggressive, non-hateful kind of way), then I do think that is his right. The same way in that I might choose to not continue dating someone if I were to find out for instance they had children, or were a smoker (which to some people could be deal breakers) as long as it's done in a respectful manner it doesn't necessarily mean they are homophobic/transphobic/the worlds worst - in my opinion anyway!
Pauline - your story is beautiful and inspiring, hopefully I might have a similar story myself one day!
A couple of weeks ago I met this guy at a party, a gentleman, we danced all night, kissed, he bought me drinks and then offered to take me to eat something and then home. I never disclosed I was trans because I was sure he knew. We went to his car and he reclined my seat and got on top of me. Started kissing me and then went to put his hands over my parts...He realized what was between my legs, stopped and just sat there in shock asking me "seriously?"...I said I thought he knew and he said he had no idea. He didn't do anything and even offered to take me back home but I was so uncomfortable because he completely changed his behavior and I honestly didn't want to spend more time alone with him, fearing he would get upset and aggressive. So I left and nothing happened to me, but it could have.
My point is, men can go from being perfect gentlemen to extremely serious and even aggressive if they feel deceived or if they feel their masculinity threatened. I hope this is not the case with your guy but honey you're playing with fire here... You need to tell him ASAP. Good luck.
Hi Jenn,
Very interesting thread. I hope it works out for you.
I don't think there's anything moral about this. Jenn is a woman who can't give birth. She is who she is there's nothing deceptive about that. Saying she has an obligation to tell him seems to me to cave to a transphobic view that she isn't a women.
To me the decision is only about safety. Somehow society needs to stop enabling the idea that a man has the right to be angry about this. That's the real issue here. That's what puts people in danger because many in society think less of transgender people. They think we should admit that we're less than cis and should grovel for their acceptance.
If a women has Androgen insensitivity syndrome, are they somehow being deceptive by not telling their partner?
Anyway that's my two cents. Sorry for the rant.
Take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: Devlyn on March 09, 2019, 08:26:04 AM
I am reminded of the posts I've read here about people talking in their sleep in their male voice. The ways we can be outed, or out ourselves, are numerous.
EDIT: male voice, not mail voice. :laugh:
That just means the muscle memory isn't the female voice yet. When it's automatic and you have to think about speaking in a male voice and if you try it your voice cracks you don't have to worry about talking in a male voice while sleeping.
In terms of this subject as to tell or not to tell. I don't know. I for sure would if I was pre op or non op but being post op I don't really have to. Really there is not much different about me at this point then any other woman that cannot have kids. I would feel more inclined to disclose to them that I cannot have biological kids and then be honest about if I was willing to adopt or go through some sort of surrogacy situation with him.
My current boyfriend knows but that is kind of a funny story. We've been together for a very long time. We met at a karaoke bar after I got done singing some Cyndi Lauper. My friend, who doesn't have the option of stealth, got up and in full bass belted out wherever I may roam. It was rather amusing and embarrassing at the same time because she had too much to drink and was slurring the words and off key.
There was another guy I was dating for about four months that I never did tell. Like the op I wanted to tell him in person but kept chickening out. Intimacy just kind of sneaks up on things and thankfully being post op it was possible. Honestly I don't feel guilty about it.
My main suggestion is use your judgement and stay safe.
So obviously I have evolved on the subject somewhat but I have not done a 180. Lots of good points including the ones I shared from my therapist.
As was mentioned above we are women, and if they can't tell or even if they can if they are making advances then they must find us desirable.
If we disclose to someone that does not suspect and they then reject us does that make them homophobic? Yeah I think you can say so.
Here is why I am still torn on both sides. Don't they have the right to be homophobic? Am I condoning it? NO.
Do I condone the KKK or Nazi party? NO. I am a liberal. But they have the right to their idiotic opinion. So does a homophobe or transphobe.
I get both sides of the debate. I usually do. It drives me crazy. :D
But as Charlie Nicki said this can get dangerous very quickly.
Jen I hope you tell him soon both so you can stop worrying about it and for your safety.
Keep us updated and thank you for sharing a difficult topic so we can discuss. I think that is so important here so that others can sort things out for themselves.