saying transmen are differnet to natal men, is the same as the old BS about transwomen....
tswomen are more feminine, more loving, more classically feminine... GET LOST....
Transmen to me, are men.
trans women, to me, are women.
the trans label is like saying
cancerman
cancerwoman.... its the past, its irelevant...
what attracts me to a guy, is his personality, his body, and how he treats me. i dont give a flying fudgecandy if a guy is trans or natal, hes a guy, and if that boy fits my criteria for dating, who cares!
R :police:
Quote from: Nero on January 07, 2008, 08:43:50 AM
And yet we were raised as girls and so we understand, we know things that natal men don't. We know so much more than natal men.
The only thing I learned from being raised as a female was what the girl's bathroom looks like and how to properly put on make up.
Transmen are petty much as imature and male as any born guy... :P i dont think being rased a girl will teach them anything more about being a girl, that being raised a boy did to any transwoman (well some)
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on January 09, 2008, 06:47:31 PM
Transmen are petty much as imature and male as any born guy... :P i dont think being rased a girl will teach them anything more about being a girl, that being raised a boy did to any transwoman (well some)
R :police:
And some of them have been raised with boys and men almost all their lives, so there's nothing
female about them whatsoever! :P
tink :icon_chick:
Here is a post I submitted in another thread here earlier.
Some say that a leopard never changes it's spots. Well, whomever came out with that saying couldn't be more wrong.
One steps out of their binary and venture into the next, not because of the excitement of the adventure but as a survival tactic. I believe you will find that a person's attitude and personality can be greatly changed by the transitioning hormone that they are taking. It can be one of the most wonderful experiences you can have in your lifetime. Or it could be a nightmare if you are not ready for what is involved in order transform your life.
Cindy
My views are well known. I dont belive in the dominance of 'nurture' and 'conditioning'...
Most f2ms ive come in contact with, are just guys... they dont complain, and explain away thier inibility to act as males by blaming how they were raised. This seems a pretty much only m2f thing... There seems to be a higher fantisy factor for f2ms too... as there are no CDs enjoying dressing as men so much they pretend thier f2m to do it 24/7... theres also never been a HINT of a faker f2m... someone pretending to be f2m, and posting fake photos of themselves, and dealing with thier issues by creating and living a fantisy life on trans forums... Every f2m ive interacted with, has been down to earth, genuine, and male... and you know what? i have next to no trouble reading them as men. and treating them as such. Not because thier any different, but because thier so male, tthat its obvious. No overacting, no 'insight' into the female mind, they wont make any better boyfriend than a natal guy...
its like when some ->-bleeped-<- comes into the chatroom, and announces ' i love transwomen, because they used to be guys, and as such, know whats peasureable for a man, and how to do it'
would that offend you? sure as hell does me.
and what? we would be better wives, because we understand how our husbands think? BS....
Genuine m2fs, and f2ms, dont understand thier birth genders way of thinking, or psyche, any better than a natal woman understands how a man thinks... or vice versa. Social conditioning is a lovely excuse for those who want to futher delude themselves that they are the other gender... And as such, a rock is a rock... and just because these guys were born sans man bits, doesnt mean they are gonna understand a girl any better, or drink beer and watch football any less...
R :police:
My theory on why the men rule is that their brains are not destroyed during puberty by T. Most take it later than a natal gets their T and so they may think a little different as a group.
I am not generalizing. I understand that there are T-men who are as tough and violent a man as you'll ever find. I'm just saying that IF there is any difference in attitude between T-men as a group and natal men, that it MAY be due to taking T later in their development and also having to make that journey from their birth sex-body to becoming the people they really are. That journey in itself is one that must temper the soul.
No offense intended toward anybody. It's just a thought and I don't claim to be correct.
Rebis
Quote from: Rachael on January 09, 2008, 08:40:05 PM
My views are well known. I dont belive in the dominance of 'nurture' and 'conditioning'...
Most f2ms ive come in contact with, are just guys... they dont complain, and explain away thier inibility to act as males by blaming how they were raised. This seems a pretty much only m2f thing... There seems to be a higher fantisy factor for f2ms too... as there are no CDs enjoying dressing as men so much they pretend thier f2m to do it 24/7... theres also never been a HINT of a faker f2m... someone pretending to be f2m, and posting fake photos of themselves, and dealing with thier issues by creating and living a fantisy life on trans forums... Every f2m ive interacted with, has been down to earth, genuine, and male... and you know what? i have next to no trouble reading them as men. and treating them as such. Not because thier any different, but because thier so male, tthat its obvious. No overacting, no 'insight' into the female mind, they wont make any better boyfriend than a natal guy...
its like when some ->-bleeped-<- comes into the chatroom, and announces ' i love transwomen, because they used to be guys, and as such, know whats peasureable for a man, and how to do it'
would that offend you? sure as hell does me.
and what? we would be better wives, because we understand how our husbands think? BS....
Genuine m2fs, and f2ms, dont understand thier birth genders way of thinking, or psyche, any better than a natal woman understands how a man thinks... or vice versa. Social conditioning is a lovely excuse for those who want to futher delude themselves that they are the other gender... And as such, a rock is a rock... and just because these guys were born sans man bits, doesnt mean they are gonna understand a girl any better, or drink beer and watch football any less...
R :police:
I agree 100% Rachael. Sometimes, I don't agree with what you say, but when you get it right, WOW, do you get it RIGHT!!!!! ;)
You couldn't be more female if you tried, your feminine intuitive powers are SPOT ON!!! :) :) :) :) :)
b/c we're da best :laugh:
Quote from: Rebis on January 09, 2008, 09:22:15 PM
My theory on why the men rule is that their brains are not destroyed during puberty by T. Most take it later than a natal gets their T and so they may think a little different as a group.
I am not generalizing. I understand that there are T-men who are as tough and violent a man as you'll ever find. I'm just saying that IF there is any difference in attitude between T-men as a group and natal men, that it MAY be due to taking T later in their development and also having to make that journey from their birth sex-body to becoming the people they really are. That journey in itself is one that must temper the soul.
No offense intended toward anybody. It's just a thought and I don't claim to be correct.
Rebis
So f2ms are inferior copys of men...
Dont we agree, that the reason transsexual people transition, is because they are trapped in the wrong body... f2ms are males, m2fs are femals, who by scome cruel twist of fate, got dumped with the bad lot... if so. when you take hormones to change your physical development, it hasnt had any effect on your maleness, or femaleness. I tell you something Rebis, I havent changed since hrt. Ive got more happy, more relaxed, and more content with myself. But i am the same person i was pretransition. im under no ilusion that this is a new life, or im a whole new person... Testosterone is the same. For m2fs, thier strenght drops, and thier muscles... for f2ms, they go up, and thier IQ goes down *runs*
R :police:
Quote
So f2ms are inferior copys of men...
Dont we agree, that the reason transsexual people transition, is because they are trapped in the wrong body... f2ms are males, m2fs are femals, who by scome cruel twist of fate, got dumped with the bad lot... if so. when you take hormones to change your physical development, it hasnt had any effect on your maleness, or femaleness. I tell you something Rebis, I havent changed since hrt. Ive got more happy, more relaxed, and more content with myself. But i am the same person i was pretransition. im under no ilusion that this is a new life, or im a whole new person... Testosterone is the same. For m2fs, thier strenght drops, and thier muscles... for f2ms, they go up, and thier IQ goes down *runs*
R :police:
So your saying that FTMs growing up in a female body makes no diffrence to the person?
Im sorry I totally disagree with what you are saying.
However I am not going to rant as I simply cant be bothered anymore.....
does growing up in a male body make a difference to the person in a m2fs case?
In the case of true transexuality, the dysphoria WITH that body, and how the person is raised, is what causes transition. Thus, disolusionment with thier birth gender would separate them even further from thier birth gender... Sure theres a difference... you miss out on however many years... but i dont agree on social conditioning theory.
R :police:
I don't worry so much about the whys. The fifteen or so trans-men I know in person and the additional fifteen or so I have 'met' on boards over the last six years just leave me with the total impression that they DO. Period. (With the
ONE exception I have mentioned elsewhere.)
It's kinda like, for me, is gold valuable because people had a hard time extracting it and thus it became valuable, or is there some 'in-born' quality of gold that would make it valuable regardless? Ya, know, I just really don't care. The important thing for me is that "I love it and appreciate it more than I do lead." *smile*
For me:
Quoteb/c we're da best
pretty much sums it up.
N~
Yeah, Chris has got it :P short n sweet... typical male response ><
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on January 10, 2008, 04:10:15 AM
So f2ms are inferior copys of men...
Dont we agree, that the reason transsexual people transition, is because they are trapped in the wrong body... f2ms are males, m2fs are femals, who by scome cruel twist of fate, got dumped with the bad lot... if so. when you take hormones to change your physical development, it hasnt had any effect on your maleness, or femaleness. I tell you something Rebis, I havent changed since hrt. Ive got more happy, more relaxed, and more content with myself. But i am the same person i was pretransition. im under no ilusion that this is a new life, or im a whole new person... Testosterone is the same. For m2fs, thier strenght drops, and thier muscles... for f2ms, they go up, and thier IQ goes down *runs*
R :police:
No. I am not saying they are inferior copies of men. I understand that the men are men.
My point is that there
MAY be a
subtle difference in a person who's body and mind has been T soaked since birth from a person who's mind and body is not.
I am NOT saying that taking T later has an effect on the
maleness of the person's
identity. I am saying that they have had to live with their minds bathed in
E as opposed to
T, and so
MAYBE it has an effect on them in some way that I can not explain because this is a HYPOTHESIS and
not a judgment or even a conclusion.anyway, whatever the effect of growing up as they do. The men still ROCK!!
Rebis
Posted on: January 10, 2008, 07:35:06 AM
Quote from: Rachael on January 10, 2008, 05:10:50 AM
does growing up in a male body make a difference to the person in a m2fs case?
In the case of true transexuality, the dysphoria WITH that body, and how the person is raised, is what causes transition. Thus, disolusionment with thier birth gender would separate them even further from thier birth gender... Sure theres a difference... you miss out on however many years... but i dont agree on social conditioning theory.
R :police:
My theory did not concern social conditioning. It concerned the beating of the mind by T - a physical thing. and also the affect upon their character of having to go through the process of discovering their identity, accepting their identity, and becoming the person to whom that identity belongs.
you do realise natal men arnt 'soaked' in T since birth either?
most gendered hormonal difference is from puberty... by the same standard, your saying m2fs arnt propper women because they didnt all transition at 13...
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on January 10, 2008, 08:08:06 AM
you do realise natal men arnt 'soaked' in T since birth either?
most gendered hormonal difference is from puberty... by the same standard, your saying m2fs arnt propper women because they didnt all transition at 13...
R :police:
I understand about not being soaked while young. I should have specified that the human brain does not mature until 25. Natal men's brains are soaked when they hit puberty at a time when their brains are in serious development mode. I would think there's a difference between a human brain that is T soaked from about the age of 13 or 14 and a brain that doesn't begin until 18. There must be a bigger difference between a 13/14 year old brain starting out and a brain starting out at 20 or above.
As I said, it is an idea I have. A thought. I'm not married to it.
Quote from: Rebis on January 10, 2008, 08:13:00 AM
As I said, it is an idea I have. A thought. I'm not married to it.
And even if you were married to it, you could always 'fool around!!' :D :D
N~
Quote from: Rachael on January 10, 2008, 05:10:50 AM
does growing up in a male body make a difference to the person in a m2fs case?
In the case of true transexuality, the dysphoria WITH that body, and how the person is raised, is what causes transition. Thus, disolusionment with thier birth gender would separate them even further from thier birth gender... Sure theres a difference... you miss out on however many years... but i dont agree on social conditioning theory.
R :police:
i concord rachael.
Quote from: Chris on January 10, 2008, 12:59:48 AM
b/c we're da best :laugh:
ya you're the best chris. we know that.
We are all here under the same roof so don't poke holes in somone else's part of it. I believe if one was to do a little research we would be amazed at what changes T can brings to a F+M or E for an M+F. Subtle changes in the beginning, but the biggest part of the changes will be within. They are changes that eventually will change your personality and attitude, and how you feel within yourself you will find some of these can be very profound changes.
Cindy
ive had no change to my personality or attitude... im the same girl i was before hrt...
i dont understand all this 'it changes who you are' crap...
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on January 10, 2008, 02:36:36 PM
ive had no change to my personality or attitude... im the same girl i was before hrt...
i dont understand all this 'it changes who you are' crap...
R :police:
doesn't testostorone affect men at birth in the fetus?
yeah if you gave a guy testosterone during development....
testosterone levels are similar to girls till puberty... Before puberty, there is very little hormonal difference iirc.
R
Well, hon, no two people are alike or react the same way to any given similar stimulus. I can only say that for me, when I embraced she who resided within, it was a very profound change that included my thoughts and feelings, an experience very similar in intensity to when I put the cork back on the bottle and started to breath the same air of reality as everyone else around me was. it was a very profound spiritual experience.
Actually I would be quite ready to admit that the results of one changing the life style they know for one they have no idea of what it is going to be like can be frightening enough, especially for what they only know is preconceived. Something within their very inner-selves pushes them relentlessly forward. GID? Maybe it's genetic? A primitive instinct? Whichever, it drives us to where we need to be. That is my belief, that one feels compelled, that it is something they had to do, come hell or high water. Every individual has his/her own unique perception of what transitioning means to them.
Cindy
here was me thinking it was just making ones body, match ones brain.... (the brain already being the 'target' gender.... :P)
R >:D
Hi Rachael
Quite right, but let us expound a bit more on what you have offered.
In the beginning it is experiences that are very subtle, becoming more profound as time passes. Before the time one truly becomes aware of the changes that take place within them, the joining of of spirit and body become melded as one within. It is then that the inner-self makes itself known.
Cindy
The only thing I've noticed is that I ended up teaching most of my male friends how to put on makeup...
"Hee, hee!" Did they learn how to put on makeup? Well I bet they looked cute, now you have to teach them how to fix their hair. "Hee, hee." Just tugging on your socks hon. ;D
Cindy
I thought I was on the wrong forum at first and had to scroll back up. Then I scratched my head and read all the post and reread a few because I just don't get into all the technical mumbo-jumbo. I also don't know what theory I would buy at this point. I do know that I don't need T to be any more "male" other than voice and a few physical changes that I would be estatic to have. I don't feel my body or how I was raised has had any influence on who I really am either. In fact I am a pretty good poster child for the male stereotype.
So I guess I need to reread this whole thread because well... I just don't get it. I have yet to see how I am any different then any straight male I know...except maybe I am quicker to drop the gloves and fight in hockey games. The only thing I can see T doing for me when I eventually start is helping my body out, otherwise I am either blessed or screwed I guess.
Why? I don't know why but they do rock and that's what matters. I'm afraid I don't know too many trans men, but I am sure all of them are awesome in their own way.
The one I know pretty well rocks because he is a gentleman. Sometimes he comes across as very rough, perhaps too forward but in reality he's a sweetheart and knows how to treat a lady in every aspect. He can be romantic, passionate, extremely funny; I am sure that if he wanted to, he could turn a funeral into a party; his aura emanates trust, love, optimism and confidence. I feel so protected, so wanted, so loved when I am around him; honestly he's everything a straight girl would/could want in a guy :) There, honest response!
tink :icon_chick:
Would you be speaking about Pica Pica?
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on January 11, 2008, 10:43:36 PM
Would you be speaking about Pica Pica?
Cindy
I'm sure Pica is an excellent person as well, but no, I'm talking about Chris! :P
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on January 11, 2008, 10:05:44 PM
Why? I don't know why but they do rock and that's what matters. I'm afraid I don't know too many trans men, but I am sure all of them are awesome in their own way.
The one I know pretty well rocks because he is a gentleman. Sometimes he comes across as very rough, perhaps too forward but in reality he's a sweetheart and knows how to treat a lady in every aspect. He can be romantic, passionate, extremely funny; I am sure that if he wanted to, he could turn a funeral into a party; his aura emanates trust, love, optimism and confidence. I feel so protected, so wanted, so loved when I am around him; honestly he's everything a straight girl would/could want in a guy :) There, honest response!
tink :icon_chick:
You're making me jealous. :)
I thought I'd just add my two cents worth.
I think that just the journey matures you a lot. Whether you're an FTM or MTF, it doesn't really matter. You have to understand that I'm not very old, but I've found that I've toughened up and matured a lot because of the fact that I am FTM. I barely understand anything about myself, whereas if I had been born a boy, I would better know who I am. It is different for everyone, and it effects you in different ways. I don't know where I'm going at all in life, and I've never loved anyone. I don't understand myself, but if I had been born 'normal' (using the term loosely), I would defiantly be very different than how I am now.
I believe that the most important thing is the individual. I wish we weren't classified by how we appear or what hormone we have, but by who we really are.
Hi The_Unforgiven
I truly wish I could be of assistance for you but my life took a turn in the opposite direction from you, hmmm or maybe riding the same train, just on two different sets of tracks. I am not sure if I would confuse you more then help. The only trans man I have ever met in person was the one I went to see for a volunteer job interview last week. Certainly not sufficient time enough for me to make an analysis. All that I learned was that he was an intelligent gentleman.
All I can tell you from my own experience is that I just simply made peace with the innerself. Once I stopped the battle that was raging inside it became much easier to tackle my transitional years.
Cindy
Thank you for your concern. I really have never met another transsexual, because, like I said, I still am very young. At this point, the war is at it's peak. It will either get much better or much worse from here.
I don't want to get off the topic, so I'll stop there.
Hi again The_Unforgiven
Thank you for responding, just check around the board and I believe you will find other F * M around abouts. In the mean time I will send a prayer for you're success in reaching your goal.
Cindy
Thank you.
Quote from: Rachael on January 09, 2008, 06:47:31 PM
Transmen are petty much as imature and male as any born guy... :P i dont think being rased a girl will teach them anything more about being a girl, that being raised a boy did to any transwoman (well some)
R :police:
Hey I'm a born guy and I'm not......ummmm nvm.
ha ha ha ha ha love is in the air. that's cute >:D
Yes blessed be Tink's little soul and I do pray that the love Gods watch over her . ;D
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on January 12, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Yes blessed be Tink's little soul and I do pray that the love Gods watch over her . ;D
Cindy
You're a sweet lady, Cindy. Thank you :)
Quote from: Natasha on January 12, 2008, 11:23:33 AM
ha ha ha ha ha love is in the air. that's cute >:D
Bruja! ;) ;D
tink :icon_chick: