In keeping with the theme of having thread titles that give you no idea what is in it without clicking on it... (not done on purpose, honest... ;)) this is about tipping points.
I am interested in whether you had a single event, or moment in your life which set you on the path to discovering, accepting, or actively working towards being yourself. If there was one thing you can put your finger on which you can say "This was what tipped the scales I'd been trying to balance!"
Or... conversely, whether you were literally just waiting for the time people listened to something you were telling them since the minute you could form words.
For me, it was a dream. One dream, one night. The most vivid dream I've ever had. And I still remember the details to this day, nearly 20 years on. It wasn't quite lucid, but it felt like it. I tend to have vivid dreams most times... my subconscious seems to have the idea that it can invite all the exotic dancers and stockpile copious amounts of alcohol when my conscious self is not around to stop it... but this was on a whole other level. It was like living a version of my life which was the past, present and future rolled into one. I saw with a clarity I never had before, and have rarely had since.
What was it like for you?
For me, it was a series of events that set me on a most unexpected path. Most of this I covered in The Story of Lori (https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html)'s earliest posts.
The TD;LR version:
My wife and I lived in Illinois. She was finishing her Associate's Degree in Automotive Technology. I had been coming to South Dakota to do some gold prospecting and really loved it. The plan was to move here upon her graduation. We made a few trips together to decide what town we wanted to live in. About two months before graduation, she got a great job offer working nights building insulated tanker trailers. These trailers haul hot liquids (like tar for roads) and she was making good money at it.
She said she was no longer interested in moving, but I hated Illinois and wanted to move. I soon discovered that an old boyfriend of hers had returned and they picked up where they left off. I told her I was moving and if she wanted to come along, she was welcome to and we could work things out. She was not willing, so I packed up my truck and headed north.
Once I got here I was ready for a fresh start. I decided that I would no longer worry about anyone else and I would work on myself. I would get back into hiking, backpacking, camping, and prospecting. And I would seek out a therapist to begin working on figuring out what was going on with me. That led to me seeing a few different therapists and eventually my diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria. The rest is history.
The defining moment was the day I put Illinois and my former life in the rearview mirror. I had no idea how things would turn out, but I was willing to leave everything behind and embark on this journey. To this day, I have no regrets about any of it.
Quote from: Lori Dee on August 02, 2024, 05:00:07 PMFor me, it was a series of events that set me on a most unexpected path. Most of this I covered in The Story of Lori (https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html)'s earliest posts.
The TD;LR version:
My wife and I lived in Illinois. She was finishing her Associate's Degree in Automotive Technology. I had been coming to South Dakota to do some gold prospecting and really loved it. The plan was to move here upon her graduation. We made a few trips together to decide what town we wanted to live in. About two months before graduation, she got a great job offer working nights building insulated tanker trailers. These trailers haul hot liquids (like tar for roads) and she was making good money at it.
She said she was no longer interested in moving, but I hated Illinois and wanted to move. I soon discovered that an old boyfriend of hers had returned and they picked up where they left off. I told her I was moving and if she wanted to come along, she was welcome to and we could work things out. She was not willing, so I packed up my truck and headed north.
Once I got here I was ready for a fresh start. I decided that I would no longer worry about anyone else and I would work on myself. I would get back into hiking, backpacking, camping, and prospecting. And I would seek out a therapist to begin working on figuring out what was going on with me. That led to me seeing a few different therapists and eventually my diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria. The rest is history.
The defining moment was the day I put Illinois and my former life in the rearview mirror. I had no idea how things would turn out, but I was willing to leave everything behind and embark on this journey. To this day, I have no regrets about any of it.
That is kind of a testament to the kind of person you are, Lori. I don't know the dynamic you had with your wife but from what you have said I can take a good guess. You are a very strong person. A leap of faith is often the hardest step we ever take. I am sorry that you had to deal with that, with your wife.
I am glad you took that leap, though. That you had it within you to see what was over the horizon. You've been through a lot. And you use that to be an inspiration for others. You are the rarest of people... you can be deep in the earth but also deep in the esoteric nature of the cosmos at the same time.
You found you. That is awesome.
Thank you for sharing. <3
Quote from: Sephirah on August 02, 2024, 05:20:08 PMA leap of faith is often the hardest step we ever take. I am sorry that you had to deal with that, with your wife.
She was wife #3, so I didn't get upset, yell and throw things. I reminded her that she was not the first, but she will be the last. I knew I needed change, any change. As a practicing Survivor, I knew I had the skills and experience to start a new life. I built a camper on the back of my pickup, loaded it up with my stuff, and drove away. I got to South Dakota the first week of May and I lived in the forest until November 11, when my new apartment became available.
Was it you or Allie who said, "Everything you desire is on the other side of fear"? It is so true.
For me it was a day in the spring of '21.
I'd just come out of a particular bad stretch of dysphoria (which my wife thought was insomnia - which we part of it, plus the panic attacks and the rest of the deluxe package ...). And it all began with two words I'd never let myself ask before: "What if?..."
To that point I'd known in my heart I was trans for decades. I tried ignoring it, working through it, etc, and just generally guilting myself into ignoring it because I had so many wonderful things in my life so why did I have to be so stupid as to consider ruining it?
Plus why would I want to hurt all the people I love? No. If there is pain to be carried I will carry it myself for the rest of my life and no one else has to be hurt because I am broken.
But then the penny dropped. For years it was always that binary choice - suffer the pain silently and keep the good things I have, or hurt everyone and lose everything to live an authentic life.
But what if, I FINALLY asked this day - what if I could have it all? What if I could live authentically AND still have the people who love me and all the good in my life? What if everything became even better? What if I could get the life I always dreamed of?
It just sat there, on the other side of my fear. It took until December of that year when I first engaged with my therapist, but it was on that day when I knew the ball was in motion. I'd never conceived of a happy ending for me. And now I decided that life was too short not to go get it.
Hi Everyone There never was a defining moment in my life that steered me in the direction that I was going to take in my life.
Some memorable moments or way points that stick out for me and are covered in 'Sarah's Story' are, pile of clothes in kindergarten and trying to find some appropriate clothing, first time I was properly dressed, sitting in an arm chair saying "this feels right", finding the article about transsexuals, my uncle saying 'go and live as a female', the two Christmas holidays I had as Sarah, especially the second one where I spent a whole week as Sarah and the final one occurred in Feb 1989 changing my legal name.
The real defining moment I would say, was when I woke up for the second time from my operation and the feeling of peace and contentment descended over me as I looked down and realised that what I had was gone as I went back to sleep.
The rest they say is just history.
Love and HugsSarah BOfficial Greeter@Sephirah@Lori Dee
It was around 7:30pm on Dec 28, 2016. I had just read yet another introduction story here on Susan's Place. Like many of the other stories, it mentioned crossdressing at an early age, never seeming to fit in, and anger issues. I thought to myself 'I could have written that'. The light bulb finally went on. I finally understood the source of my anger. For the first time in ages, I cried. When I was finished, I knew I only had two choices left. Either allow my path to continue towards an abrupt end, or transition. I'm still here, but he is a fading memory.
Love always -- Jessica Rose
Of course, my experience was from a different perspective! In my earliest memories I knew I had conflicting gender, but life and circumstances prevented me form acting on it. Over the decades of self examination, I realised that I liked my male life, and the constant dysphoria was just a condition I needed to manage. I was successful at this for 60 years, but then I could no longer contain my dysphoria, and it made me sick.
My doctors advised I would need to transition to survive, but I truly did not want to transition. I realised they were right, and gave up my lifelong fight against my gender incongruence. They were correct, and transition did reduce my dysphoria, but I didn't find my true self as I had always been my true self. I just had a medical condition which needed treatment.
Hugs,
Allie
I can remember at a young age discovering my fathers Playboy stash. I would stare at those beautiful girls and imagine what it would be like to be one. In my teen years I had a very very vivid dream where I gave birth via a midwife and nurtured my newborn. It was more like a memory from a past life, and I loved it! As an adult the battle raged from denial to relief by brief crossdressing and masturbation. I would fill my free time with work on the family farm and try to stay busy. At 60 my mother died and I found out she had changed her will to take the land away from me, added that to a bit of midlife crises, 60 OMG. I did some serious soul searching and decided I no longer wanted or couldn't hide my true self. It was at this point I felt it was time to transition or commit suicide. Like the rest, I'm still here!
It was the day I bought some clothes just for me as the "oversize" shop was closing, at last some that fit me. Trouble was the ex caught me putting them away and I just blurted out I want a sex change! Getting kicked out and finding my flat just let me be myself after 60 years not that I would change them.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. This is what I was hoping for. To illustrate, really, how all roads lead to Rome, as it were.
One thing I am rather curious about
@Allie Jayne is what this felt like for you. Knowing you had this discrepancy yet, as you put it, liking the life you had? How did that manifest for you? What was it you liked that prevented you from acting until you decided you couldn't anymore?
This is awesome. Learning about people and how we are all different but not so much. Anyone who hasn't, please share your own experience. There is no wrong answer. <3
Quote from: Sephirah on August 03, 2024, 05:12:34 PMThank you all for sharing your experiences. This is what I was hoping for. To illustrate, really, how all roads lead to Rome, as it were.
One thing I am rather curious about @Allie Jayne is what this felt like for you. Knowing you had this discrepancy yet, as you put it, liking the life you had? How did that manifest for you? What was it you liked that prevented you from acting until you decided you couldn't anymore?
This is awesome. Learning about people and how we are all different but not so much. Anyone who hasn't, please share your own experience. There is no wrong answer. <3
Sephira, I learned early on that I was incongruent, and ways to mitigate the dysphoria, so I was able to build a rewarding life presenting as a male, but knowing who I was all along. I had 2 amazing children, was respected in my job, and I was married to my soul mate. We had adventures most weeks, and travelled lots. We were asked to contribute to books and documentaries, and I was able to achieve good things for my community. I was living a dream!
But I had dysphoria which disrupted my life. I had long realised that if I found affirming things to do, I could reduce my dysphoria, so for decades I expressed parts of my identity publicly (long hair etc), expressed my identity in writing stories and online participation. For 20 years my spouse realised I needed to manage my dysphoria, so agreed I could present my female side all the time I was at home. I also avoided idle time, I always had a project, and was organising people.
So I thought I could keep this up for the rest of my life, but my dysphoria increased. I did not want to risk the life I had developed, so I resisted until the cumulative stress made me sick, and after 6 months trying everything to get well, my doctor tried hormones as a 'Hail Mary' and it worked. I got my life back, and tried to stop hormones as I knew they put my utopia at risk, but I got sick again.
So I had to transition medically, and, as I had severe genital dysphoria, I needed bottom surgery. My surgeon was old time, and required a year of living my gender, so I had to socially transition. This all reduced my dysphoria, but it did cost me the wonderful life I had enjoyed. I live comfortably now, but I don't have the daily rewards I once had. I can truthfully say I am not as happy as I was prior to transition.
Hugs,
Allie
Quote from: Allie Jayne on August 03, 2024, 07:24:13 PMSephira, I learned early on that I was incongruent, and ways to mitigate the dysphoria, so I was able to build a rewarding life presenting as a male, but knowing who I was all along. I had 2 amazing children, was respected in my job, and I was married to my soul mate. We had adventures most weeks, and travelled lots. We were asked to contribute to books and documentaries, and I was able to achieve good things for my community. I was living a dream!
But I had dysphoria which disrupted my life. I had long realised that if I found affirming things to do, I could reduce my dysphoria, so for decades I expressed parts of my identity publicly (long hair etc), expressed my identity in writing stories and online participation. For 20 years my spouse realised I needed to manage my dysphoria, so agreed I could present my female side all the time I was at home. I also avoided idle time, I always had a project, and was organising people.
So I thought I could keep this up for the rest of my life, but my dysphoria increased. I did not want to risk the life I had developed, so I resisted until the cumulative stress made me sick, and after 6 months trying everything to get well, my doctor tried hormones as a 'Hail Mary' and it worked. I got my life back, and tried to stop hormones as I knew they put my utopia at risk, but I got sick again.
So I had to transition medically, and, as I had severe genital dysphoria, I needed bottom surgery. My surgeon was old time, and required a year of living my gender, so I had to socially transition. This all reduced my dysphoria, but it did cost me the wonderful life I had enjoyed. I live comfortably now, but I don't have the daily rewards I once had. I can truthfully say I am not as happy as I was prior to transition.
Hugs,
Allie
This seems to be a theme. I have never been married. I keep people pretty distant because as an empath, a lot of things are overwhelming. I think I can feel what you're talking about though, Allie. When you find that special person in your life then you give probably more than half your life over to them. Because it's a largely symbiotic relationship. To quote Spock, from Star Trek: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
I am sorry for pressing you, Allie but what you've said I find really fascinating. What did it cost you? What do you miss that you had before?
It seems to me that... I am sorry for being blunt... but marriage is a big roadblock in all this. I have never been married because even though I can't transition, I can't go into a relationship based on being someone I am not... and even though I've had offers from some folks here over the years... it's just not me.
But this seems a very common thing. How much, would you say, was your relationship with your other half a part of your story?
Sephira, I was married twice, both women left me partly due to my being trans. My first wife wasn't a soul mate, but gave me my 2 children. My second wife was my best friend, and remains my best friend, she just feels awkward being in public with me now. She knows that is her problem.
Hormones gave me breast pain and prevented me from participating in my passion. Divorce at 67 years old does change your financial plans, and has affected my retirement plans. I don't travel so much any more. I had never lived on my own, and I loved having someone to care for, so being on my own sucks. The stresses of transition and divorce affected my employment, and I was forced to retire from my dream job before I was ready to, and the cumulative stresses of everything caused me to have a heart attack with 2 cardiac arrests, which also affected my life from then on.
So I lost much of a dream life, and, although I have recovered some of it, I know I can never get it all back. I guess most of you come from a miserable life to an enlightening, then great relief from finding 'yourself', but this was not my path. I knew who I truly was over half a century ago, and spent decades learning and managing my condition, and making my best life. When I had to change, I lost more than I gained, but I am still the same person.
Hugs,
Allie
I basically survived life until therapy helped me recover from dissociative identity disorder. On recovery, it was noted that I was female. Luckily my biology was such that I was intersex and so transition was not challenging physically but did mean I lost everything I had spent my 50 years building up - partner, home, car, best friend, business and access to my child.
When I was 3 I was sexually abused for 2 years. I was physically abused by my mother from birth until 12 (until I could defend myself) - When I was 9 I told my mom that a mistake had been made, that I was a girl - she beat me so hard I was admitted to hospital and dissociatted into different personalities to hide my truth. Psychological abuse continued until I left home at 18 - I then met my partner, who continued the abuse further - realising that her 'husband' had mutliple personalities and she could manipulate them as she desired. If she wanted care, she could switch in that person - wanted protection - yeah one for that - wanted intelligent and money savey - yeah a personality for that - adult love.. that was the 4 adults that lived in my body on a time share.. 2 guys and 2 girls.. a nightmare for us - but we provided everyone with what they needed.
I then atempted suicide in 2018 - after a failed mental health assesment by the NHS. This faliure sparked me to get some proper help (as I was having 'flashbacks' and was suffering from cPTSD as well as DID).. 3 years of hard work, reliving some desperate times, some atrocities and some heinous crimes against me. I beat DID, I merged into one person, me.. and then I started rebuilding my life.
To date, in 3 years I have found the love of my life, changed country, got married, bought a house and car - moved my daughter over to live with me and got a great job. I am happy and level and at peace. The first 50 years of my life a nightmare - hoping the next 50 are much better. My novel of my life is in the works and I am touting for publishers as we speak.
There were many things going on that led me to begin my transition, but I'd say the moment that made me no longer be able to keep living a lie was the day I had decided to die.
That was what triggered another thought "well, I already decided I no longer want to live, it wouldn't hurt to see if this transition thing works". It got to the point that I couldn't take it anymore, but I'm glad it happened and I chose to live.
The tipping point for me was more of taking advantage of an opportunity. I had been wearing women's jeans and tops for quite some time, along with a bra under the top. To the observant, it wasn't hard to tell there was a bra under my tops for a long time. At some point I started padding my bra and for the most part didn't care who noticed it. It felt right/normal to dress this way.
The opportunity was a visit to my GP for another minor issue that that needed attention. When the initial reason for the visit was resolved I told her there was something else I need to discuss.
I'm not sure if I would have made a special appointment for transitioning or if I would have just waited for my next annual checkup, to bring it up. In the past my annual checkups were one of the few times that I didn't underdress so she really didn't have a clue on what was coming. To be honest I don't recall her initial reaction, I was too focused on what I needed to do and overcome emotionally to even bring up the topic. She was supportive and after a few months and a number of visits with a therapist, I made a follow up visit. At that time she was fine with my choice/needs and she prescribed an HRT routine.
Seeing a therapist was only a recommendation my GP had, but after talking with her I thought it was a good idea. Turns out it was a very good idea. It did change my path a bit.
Paulie.
Quote from: Allie Jayne on August 03, 2024, 07:24:13 PMSephira, I learned early on that I was incongruent, and ways to mitigate the dysphoria, so I was able to build a rewarding life presenting as a male, but knowing who I was all along. I had 2 amazing children, was respected in my job, and I was married to my soul mate. We had adventures most weeks, and travelled lots. We were asked to contribute to books and documentaries, and I was able to achieve good things for my community. I was living a dream!
But I had dysphoria which disrupted my life. I had long realised that if I found affirming things to do, I could reduce my dysphoria, so for decades I expressed parts of my identity publicly (long hair etc), expressed my identity in writing stories and online participation. For 20 years my spouse realised I needed to manage my dysphoria, so agreed I could present my female side all the time I was at home. I also avoided idle time, I always had a project, and was organising people.
So I thought I could keep this up for the rest of my life, but my dysphoria increased. I did not want to risk the life I had developed, so I resisted until the cumulative stress made me sick, and after 6 months trying everything to get well, my doctor tried hormones as a 'Hail Mary' and it worked. I got my life back, and tried to stop hormones as I knew they put my utopia at risk, but I got sick again.
So I had to transition medically, and, as I had severe genital dysphoria, I needed bottom surgery. My surgeon was old time, and required a year of living my gender, so I had to socially transition. This all reduced my dysphoria, but it did cost me the wonderful life I had enjoyed. I live comfortably now, but I don't have the daily rewards I once had. I can truthfully say I am not as happy as I was prior to transition.
Hugs,
Allie
I am so sorry to hear that, Allie. And... I want to thank you for putting forward something that... I think needs to be understood. Sometimes people think transition will be this "magic bullet" that will make their lives immeasurably better. Solve every problem they have in one fell swoop, as it were. But as you've showed, life is not just how you feel about yourself physically. It's about the reflections you see in the eyes of others, not just the mirror when you see yourself. Sometimes they align, and sometimes they don't.
For some, transition is the answer to everything. It's the one thing which... is the final piece to the puzzle, as it were. The one thing holding them back. It's a positive to embrace. The door to a brave new world. But for others, transition isn't encouraging a positive, it's removing a negative, to just be able to live free from pain.
As I said, there is no wrong answer to any of this. And this thread has been hugely eye opening for me, to learn how you all deal with all this.
One thing I will say, you all have in common with your responses... is that you all show tremendous courage. The courage to look inside yourself and change things about yourself to make your lives... if not better, then... not as painful. A lot of people never do this. They are content to blame the world around them. To make it always someone else's fault.
It takes guts to look inside rather than outside. And for that, you all have my undying admiration. <3
Quote from: Sephirah on August 08, 2024, 02:32:34 PMI am so sorry to hear that, Allie. And... I want to thank you for putting forward something that... I think needs to be understood. Sometimes people think transition will be this "magic bullet" that will make their lives immeasurably better. Solve every problem they have in one fell swoop, as it were. But as you've showed, life is not just how you feel about yourself physically. It's about the reflections you see in the eyes of others, not just the mirror when you see yourself. Sometimes they align, and sometimes they don't.
For some, transition is the answer to everything. It's the one thing which... is the final piece to the puzzle, as it were. The one thing holding them back. It's a positive to embrace. The door to a brave new world. But for others, transition isn't encouraging a positive, it's removing a negative, to just be able to live free from pain.
As I said, there is no wrong answer to any of this. And this thread has been hugely eye opening for me, to learn how you all deal with all this.
One thing I will say, you all have in common with your responses... is that you all show tremendous courage. The courage to look inside yourself and change things about yourself to make your lives... if not better, then... not as painful. A lot of people never do this. They are content to blame the world around them. To make it always someone else's fault.
It takes guts to look inside rather than outside. And for that, you all have my undying admiration. <3
Sephirah, many people have told me I am courageous, but I really don't feel it. My choice was to ignore my incongruence, and this was ultimately unsuccessful, putting my life in danger. So, to survive, I relented and did what I had to do. Initially, I actually chose to risk death not to transition, but my doctor said my loved ones would carry guilt for my demise when they learned I chose to protect them. It put me in a no win situation. Courage is choosing to do something you fear, but I had no choice. I relinquished control and just did whatever my doctors said. I don't see courage in this.
Hugs,
Allie
Quote from: Allie Jayne on August 08, 2024, 08:20:48 PMSephira, many people have told me I am courageous, but I really don't feel it. My choice was to ignore my incongruence, and this was ultimately unsuccessful, putting my life in danger. So, to survive, I relented and did what I had to do. Initially, I actually chose to risk death not to transition, but my doctor said my loved ones would carry guilt for my demise when they learned I chose to protect them. It put me in a no win situation. Courage is choosing to do something you fear, but I had no choice. I relinquished control and just did whatever my doctors said. I don't see courage in this.
Hugs,
Allie
Allie, everything we do is a choice. Everyone, everywhere. Whenever you have a choice to do something, or not do something.
You always have a choice, Allie. That's what separates us from all the other higher animals. We understand our own existence. We have that spark of sentience.
Choosing to not do what you did is still a choice.
No one in this world has no choice. You made the right one. After a lot of soul searching.
It was at age 20, realized I bottled it up for a long time realizing I was hurting inside keeping it in the closet. Knew I was endangering myself making it worse. Then the soul searching happened, knew I had to come out knowing the bottling it up was too much. It was not easy coming out to my family at first. Thought I would lose my family over and they surprised me. I gave them time and space wondering why I was hurting inside unhappy. It was 2 weeks later they accepted and came to terms I was transgender now happy as a pre op mtf transsexual.
Hello Nikki,
We can never underestimate the value of being accepted by family. I think that the best we can do is show them how happy we are now vs how we were before, just like you did.
Welcome to Susan's Place.
Quote from: NikkiM on August 08, 2024, 10:37:06 PMIt was at age 20,realized I bottled it up for a long time realizing I was hurting inside keeping it in the closet.Knew I was endangering myself making it worse.Then the soul searching happened,knew I had to come out knowing the bottling it up was too much.It was not easy coming out to my family at first.Thought I would lose my family over and they surprised me.I gave them time and space wondering why I was hurting inside unhappy.It was 2 weeks later they accepted and came to terms I was transgender now happy as a pre op mtf transsexual.
That's awesome, Nikki.
Like Lori says... you really can't put a price on that. That you're healthy, and in a better place is all anyone can ask... <3
Quote from: Lori Dee on August 08, 2024, 10:57:22 PMHello Nikki,
We can never underestimate the value of being accepted by family. I think that the best we can do is show them how happy we are now vs how we were before, just like you did.
Welcome to Susan's Place.
I was a mess before heading in the wrong direction before coming out. Now, loved and accepted in as a daughter and sister
In my case, it was a gradual change, and change still happens every day. Sometimes I went back a little bit, but came back again. One memorable moment was when I purchased my own skirt for the first time about 20 years ago. Before that, I wore the miniskirt my spouse wore when she was in her 20s. The next moment will be the upcoming November when an independent movie featuring me will be completed and shown to the public at some theaters.
Cheers,
barbie~~
I was always wanting to transition But my parents were very against it. My father died young in 1991. My Mom died in October 2011. November 2011 I had to start transition. I self mediated and then hit the wall. I had an intake January 2012 at Mazzoni. They are my primary care.
In my case it was 11 years ago. I had been following various feminist and similar blogs, including one by a trans woman. Then, on Sept. 11, 2013, I ran across a post by Zinnia Jones, called That was dysphoria?" 8 signs and symptoms of indirect gender dysphoria (https://the-orbit.net/zinniajones/2013/09/that-was-dysphoria-8-signs-and-symptoms-of-indirect-gender-dysphoria/). Up until then, I'd assumed I wasn't trans because I had never had the feeling that I was "a woman trapped in a man's body," but so many of the signs she mentioned fit me that I reconsidered. I knew I'd always felt alienated by what boys/men were supposed to be and was in fact alienated from them. I'd been attracted to women's clothing, although I usually suppressed that. The whole masculinity thing, especially the anxiety about losing it, seemed just stupid to me.
FWIW, there were signs before then. After I divorced, and didn't need to worry about what my (ex-)wife thought, I noticed that some men at the contra dances I was going to liked to wear skirts, because they're so swirly, so I tried it myself. The first time I saw myself in a mirror wearing a skirt, it was the first time I could look at any part of myself and not feel grossed out. I gradually femmed things up, calling myself a "man in skirts" or perhaps a "man with an unusual fashion sense" and participated in a few online groups for "men in skirts," but I found most of the people there were too hung up on their masculinity. It was that article that gave me the impetus to look up what being trans and transitioning were all about. Three years later I was in the process of transitioning, and went full time in January 2017. (It took 6 years before I could get SRS, but that's another story, mainly a saga of the messed up medical system in the USA.)
@Asche Thank you for this! This article really hit home.
In my own story, I had no clue that any of my issues might be gender-related. I sought therapy to finally figure out what was wrong with me. It was my psychologist who put the pieces together and came up with Gender Dysphoria. I had no clue what that meant. He said it indicates I may be transgender. I said there is no way that is accurate because I'm not gay! I spent the next two years in therapy learning what that really meant. Learning the difference between biological sex, gender identity, and sexual preference. Then, and only then did I see what he saw. We connected the dots and everything made sense. Hindsight is 20/20.
Quote from: Asche on August 16, 2024, 11:30:07 AMIn my case it was 11 years ago. I had been following various feminist and similar blogs, including one by a trans woman. Then, on Sept. 11, 2013, I ran across a post by Zinnia Jones, called That was dysphoria?" 8 signs and symptoms of indirect gender dysphoria (https://the-orbit.net/zinniajones/2013/09/that-was-dysphoria-8-signs-and-symptoms-of-indirect-gender-dysphoria/). Up until then, I'd assumed I wasn't trans because I had never had the feeling that I was "a woman trapped in a man's body," but so many of the signs she mentioned fit me that I reconsidered. I knew I'd always felt alienated by what boys/men were supposed to be and was in fact alienated from them. I'd been attracted to women's clothing, although I usually suppressed that. The whole masculinity thing, especially the anxiety about losing it, seemed just stupid to me.
FWIW, there were signs before then. After I divorced, and didn't need to worry about what my (ex-)wife thought, I noticed that some men at the contra dances I was going to liked to wear skirts, because they're so swirly, so I tried it myself. The first time I saw myself in a mirror wearing a skirt, it was the first time I could look at any part of myself and not feel grossed out. I gradually femmed things up, calling myself a "man in skirts" or perhaps a "man with an unusual fashion sense" and participated in a few online groups for "men in skirts," but I found most of the people there were too hung up on their masculinity. It was that article that gave me the impetus to look up what being trans and transitioning were all about. Three years later I was in the process of transitioning, and went full time in January 2017. (It took 6 years before I could get SRS, but that's another story, mainly a saga of the messed up medical system in the USA.)
@Asche Thank you for this article. I can appreciate much of what is written. And can relate. I was diagnosed (in hindsight, wrongly) with Clinical Depression when I was 14. Because a lot of the symptoms in that article are very similar. And the doctor didn't know any better. Mostly because I didn't know any better.
If I knew then what I know now, things would likely have turned out somewhat differently.
Quote from: Sephirah on August 08, 2024, 08:45:04 PMAllie, everything we do is a choice. Everyone, everywhere. Whenever you have a choice to do something, or not do something.
You always have a choice, Allie. That's what separates us from all the other higher animals. We understand our own existence. We have that spark of sentience.
Choosing to not do what you did is still a choice.
No one in this world has no choice. You made the right one. After a lot of soul searching.
Sephirah, I used to think that, but experience in the past 5 years has taught me differently. I was arrogant enough to believe everything I did was my decision, but I learned that, at times, we just don't have options. Circumstances are often beyond our control, and determine our direction. Believe me, I would not be trans if I had a choice!
Hugs,
Allie
Quote from: Allie Jayne on August 16, 2024, 05:27:49 PMSephirah, I used to think that, but experience in the past 5 years has taught me differently. I was arrogant enough to believe everything I did was my decision, but I learned that, at times, we just don't have options. Circumstances are often beyond our control, and determine our direction. Believe me, I would not be trans if I had a choice!
Hugs,
Allie
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, Allie. Life and death is a choice. Pain and not-pain is a choice. But people tend to see the act of choosing as being something like "Well that just proves you could have chosen differenty!" And it gets weaponized against people. Every day we wake up, we make choices. Even if we don't think we do.
It isn't arrogant to say how you live your life is your decision. You're quite right, it
is your decision. That's what separates us from the rest of the animals on this planet. We do things because we choose to. Because we know the consequences of going down path A or path B. We see both ends. And we choose to take one of those paths. That's part of being sentient. It's knowing the choices we make beyond just evolutionary instinct. Doing something because otherwise you wouldn't be alive is still a choice. You choose to live. That isn't a bad thing. It's just a thing.
I know that this isn't a very popular opinion because it insinuates that there's the possibility you did something just for selfish reasons and that you're basically saying... I didn't want to hurt. But that's exactly what it is. You live your life to not feel pain. Any sane person does. Whatever that takes. No one wants to feel awful every second they're awake. Pain is the ultimate cheerleader in pushing us to make choices to make it go away. It's still a choice.
I understand what you're saying, but I just don't agree. Because I feel that when you take the element of choice away from people, you take away the main thing which makes them people, and not just hairless monkeys.
Sephirah,
My turning point came 9 years ago when I fully recovered from cancer. That is when I truly accepted that there would not always be a tomorrow. My need to start transition took on a new sense of urgency.
I am still transitioning. It is going slow for the reasons that you have highlighted. I am married and I have children and grandchildren. I don't believe my marriage will survive my transition, and I'm not certain my relationship with my siblings will either.
I have to come to terms with that before I can go full time. All the while I know tomorrow is not guaranteed. This causes me anxiety and angst in my life.
Gwen
Nice profile pic, Gwen!
@gwenf369
@gwenf369Dear Gwen:I was very emotionally moved when I read your last post.
Transitioning is one of the most dramatic life changing things that we can do... and it a
affects every area of our relationships, family, marriage, friends, employment endeavors,
physical and mental health.... and just about everything else that we can imagine.
You wrote of issues that many members here have dealt with, some report successes, and some
others report of frustrating and disappointing results.
Transitioning is our own unique journey with variables that only we can deal with. You had
mentioned that you have anxiety and angst in your life for a variety of understandable reasons
and if you are not already doing so, perhaps this is the time to seek the help from an
experienced Gender Therapist.
My unsolicited advice is for you to try to stay positive... negative thinking can many times
produce negative outcomes.
I am wishing you well as you continue on in your journey and I will be following your journey as
you feel comfortable sharing and posting.Many HUGS, ❤️❤️❤️
Danielle [Northern Star Girl]
Quote from: gwenf369 on August 17, 2024, 08:44:54 PMSephirah,
My turning point came 9 years ago when I fully recovered from cancer. That is when I truly accepted that there would not always be a tomorrow. My need to start transition took on a new sense of urgency.
I am still transitioning. It is going slow for the reasons that you have highlighted. I am married and I have children and grandchildren. I don't believe my marriage will survive my transition, and I'm not certain my relationship with my siblings will either.
I have to come to terms with that before I can go full time. All the while I know tomorrow is not guaranteed. This causes me anxiety and angst in my life.
Gwen
Sephirah, while there are always choices in theory, when it comes down to the here and now, there's not always a choice. In theory, Allie may have had multiple choices, but in the reality of her condition she had no choice.
I often run into situations where I have no choice, even if some might exist. For instance, if I buy something at a shop and the clerk gives me back too much change, some would say I have 2 choices. One, keep the extra cash, and the other, return the cash. In reality I have no choice, I have to return the cash. It's not a matter of the right choice, there is no other choice for me.
While my example above is trivial compared to Allie's condition, I do understand when she says, she had no choice.
Warm Regards,
Paulie.
Hi Everyone
No the "straw did not break the camels back", because you are all in your own indomitable spirit are still here, in other words you survived and I and many others are extremely happy you are still here.
We always have a choice, regardless of the circumstances. We actively make our own choices. Regardless whether it is a small or big choice. Even if we let somebody else make a choice for us. Paradoxically we have made a choice.
The decisions that you make in regards to what matters the most in your lives, will depend on those choices. Every other decision is simply a by product of that choice.
In the case of Allie not having a choice, she did. Her health was failing and could have continued, resulting in her death. However Allie chose to transition and live.
So the apocryphal saying "The straw that broke the camel's back." is a fallacy. Why? The camels back is stronger than the straw and here on Susan's this 'indomitable spirit' shines through with the stories of Susan's members staring directly in our faces.
Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
The straw that broke the camels back for really was the passing of a dear good friend who stated I really should go see a therapist about it. It took her passing to get me to act and do something. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: Sarah B on August 18, 2024, 07:44:41 AMHi Everyone
No the "straw did not break the camels back", because you are all in your own indomitable spirit are still here, in other words you survived and I and many others are extremely happy you are still here.
We always have a choice, regardless of the circumstances. We actively make our own choices. Regardless whether it is a small or big choice. Even if we let somebody else make a choice for us. Paradoxically we have made a choice.
The decisions that you make in regards to what matters the most in your lives, will depend on those choices. Every other decision is simply a by product of that choice.
In the case of Allie not having a choice, she did. Her health was failing and could have continued, resulting in her death. However Allie chose to transition and live.
So the apocryphal saying "The straw that broke the camel's back." is a fallacy. Why? The camels back is stronger than the straw and here on Susan's this 'indomitable spirit' shines through with the stories of Susan's members staring directly in our faces.
Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
I guess "Choices" are a topic on its own, but my point was that my choice was to protect my family, even if it meant my demise, but my doctor turned that choice around by arguing my protection could cause them more harm. The welfare of my family is programmed into me (and this was confirmed by psychologists).
We do make some choices, but when we are caught between the proverbial "rock and hard place" our base level programming makes the choice for us. It was hard for me to learn and accept that I didn't have the control over my life I thought I had, but it is a scientific fact as explained by this article by UNSW https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2019/03/our-brains-reveal-our-choices-before-were-even-aware-of-them--st#:~:text=A%20new%20UNSW%20study%20suggests,we%20are%20aware%20of%20them.
Hugs,
Allie
If choosing between living and dying is a choice - then I guess it is a choice - but in reality, if you have GD as bad as I felt it then there is no 'practical' choice. You can all get hung up on the semantics but I am with Allie - this is not a choice, for given a 'fair' choice, we would not of chosen to change our gender.
In fact, to tell me that I did have a choice is hurtful. I lost my home, family and career.. that was not because I was some selfish idiot that wanted to pursue my outlandish fetishes.. it was because if I did not do this, I would be dead.
On the eve of our divorce, I said to my (now ex) wife - 'What do you want?... a living, happy, vibrant wife or a dead husband?'.. she paused for a while.. looked me in the eyes and said 'preferably dead'. After 30 years of loving that person - that is what I got. If you think for one friggin moment that I had a choice.......... !!!!!!
Quote from: SoupSarah on August 21, 2024, 09:44:55 PMIn fact, to tell me that I did have a choice is hurtful. I lost my home, family and career.. that was not because I was some selfish idiot that wanted to pursue my outlandish fetishes.. it was because if I did not do this, I would be dead.
That isn't what I was suggesting at all, Sarah. I think I know you well enough to know you're the antithesis of that. And exactly what I meant when I said the very idea gets weaponised by people who want to push that line of thinking. But you're right, it is largely semantics. And probably something best left alone. I am deeply sorry if you found it hurtful. That is never, ever my intent. Never. Same to you, Allie. I respect the way you both feel and can understand your point of view.
*big hugs* To both of you.
No. I have to say this.
Fifteen years ago, about a year after I joined this site... I was viciously attacked and hospitalised for just over a year. I lost the use of my legs. Half of my body. Because I was not careful enough to hide being here. And my brother found out. It shamed him. Humiliated him. Enraged him.
He arranged for a bunch of thugs to attack me literally outside my home. Beat me to within an inch of my life. Literally. Because he is just that evil and cared only about how I would make him look.
I was in a coma for two weeks. And it took me about eighteen months to have some semblance of a normal life. But even then, not what you all consider normal.
During that time, I tried to end my life on three separate occasions. Because everything I wanted had been taken away from me. You cannot begin to understand the hate, resentment, sheer negative emotions I went through for close to three years. I am so destroyed that I cannot transition. No doctor will dare go near me. And believe me I have tried everything. I have had close to thirty operations just to keep me alive. When I should have, by all rights, been dead ten years ago. I have had learned people tell me I should not be alive. I believe the only reason I am is because I can contribute to other people. To help other people. Whatever you have been through, you are in a place where you can, if not be happy, at least be at peace. Imagine if you could not do that. Imagine how you would try to cope with that. And then you'd have maybe 1/10th of an idea. You are not the only people with a monopoly on hurt. I just don't express it as much as you do.
I chose to be here. Even if I didn't want to be here. And trust me... 40% of the time, I do not want to be here. That choice keeps me going. It keeps me human. When 4 out of every 7 days of the week I could easily just end it all.
Sorry. I don't often get emotional. But if there's one thing I've learned it's that you do not easily choose to die.
@Sephirah "Here is a test to find whether your mission on Earth is finished: If you're alive it isn't."― Richard Bach,
Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant MessiahIn other words, we ain't done with you yet. :-*
Quote from: Lori Dee on August 22, 2024, 03:11:46 PM@Sephirah
"Here is a test to find whether your mission on Earth is finished: If you're alive it isn't."
― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
In other words, we ain't done with you yet. :-*
Thank you. Sincerely, thank you. That's honestly what keeps me going most of the time. :)
I feel badly not replying more promptly. Your story is horrifying, Sepharih, and overwhelms me. It's the worst.
Betrayal. Paralysis. Depression. Brutality. Suffering that goes on and on. And being denied living in a body that fits your brain.
And still, you're kind to so many. I kneel and bow my head before you.
An independent movie featuring me will be opened here in November. The director is a woman who approached me several years ago to make the movie. The half of story is about me, but the other half is about her brother who is the same age as me.
She could not reach or hear from her brother during the past 20 years. He was probably transgender, but was beaten and bullied by his elder brothers since childhood for his weird behaviors, for example, obsession with women's clothes. His parents did not actively stop the violence. And the director herself sided with the elder brothers, because she knew nothing about gender identity and transsexualism at that time, 40 or 50 years ago when even homosexualism was not well known.
Her brother lived in France when she met him for the last time. He did not attend the funerals of his father and mother. He probably wished to be forgotten by his family, or hated all of them so much.
The director now can understand what all violences meant for her brother. She feels guilty, and the last words of the movie is "I am sorry". That was why she wanted to produce a movie featuring me.
I heard that they are making the English subtitles of the movie. I will let you know once the movie is available in YouTube.
barbie~~
Quote from: Oldandcreaky on August 23, 2024, 06:45:57 AMI feel badly not replying more promptly. Your story is horrifying, Sepharih, and overwhelms me. It's the worst.
Betrayal. Paralysis. Depression. Brutality. Suffering that goes on and on. And being denied living in a body that fits your brain.
And still, you're kind to so many. I kneel and bow my head before you.
I feel bad for saying anything honestly. Because it's all relative. I have read hundreds of stories of people here, for whom, they have literally climbed Mount Everest. Gone through so much that I don't think I could cope with, and come down the better for it. Pain is relative. When something hurts, it hurts. Doesn't matter what it is, where it comes from, it affects us the same way. All that matters is how you deal with it. And how you use that experience. How it shapes the way you see the world.
Thank you, sweetie, but honestly I should not have put that out there. I am okay. Okay? I feel very awkward when stuff is about me. We all go through things that shape us. We all feel... everything. And everyone's experience matters. <3
I think my life probably... it's about being kind to others. It's about lifting people up. It gives me purpose. A sense of meaning. And I get to live vicariously through seeing other people smile. If I did not have that, I think I probably would not be here today. Someone very wise once told me, way back when I was at the darkest time in my life and thought I had no reason to even be here anymore... "Look, life isn't all about you. It isn't all about what you do for yourself. The biggest legacy we can leave in this world is how we shape the world around us. How we impact those around us. That's the only thing you will be remembered for."
She was right. And it's why I am how I am. As Maya Angelou once said:
"People will forget what you said, forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel."Quote from: barbie on August 23, 2024, 08:44:25 AMAn independent movie featuring me will be opened here in November. The director is a woman who approached me several years ago to make the movie. The half of story is about me, but the other half is about her brother who is the same age as me.
She could not reach or hear from her brother during the past 20 years. He was probably transgender, but was beaten and bullied by his elder brothers since childhood for his weird behaviors, for example, obsession with women's clothes. His parents did not actively stop the violence. And the director herself sided with the elder brothers, because she knew nothing about gender identity and transsexualism at that time, 40 or 50 years ago when even homosexualism was not well known.
Her brother lived in France when she met him for the last time. He did not attend the funerals of his father and mother. He probably wished to be forgotten by his family, or hated all of them so much.
The director now can understand what all violences meant for her brother. She feels guilty, and the last words of the movie is "I am sorry". That was why she wanted to produce a movie featuring me.
I heard that they are making the English subtitles of the movie. I will let you know once the movie is available in YouTube.
barbie~~
Please do, Barbie. I think I would be very interested in this.
QuoteI think my life probably... it's about being kind to others. It's about lifting people up.
Well, you sure do that.
QuoteIt gives me purpose.
Its profound purpose.
QuotePlease do, Barbie. I think I would be very interested in this.
Me too.
QuoteI feel bad for saying anything honestly.
Don't.
Please.
I still remember what my dad said to me to this day, I would rather have a much happier daughter than a dead son. My dad took it the hardest, he was given 4 sons and I told him he has 3 still. Said I was right getting a daughter that is much happier. We have a great relationship to this day still
Hi Everyone Choice, that is the question and after some serious consideration on the issue, I have decide to post the following:
I never had Gender Dysphoria or Body Dysphoria, yet I changed my life around. There was no need for hormones or surgery, strange that. Yet here I am 35 years on and living my life the way I want too. I was never faced with the stark reality of staying the way I was or moving forward with my life. So accordingly I never had a choice.
The day I changed my name, did I consider should I, or should I not? No, I just changed my name. When I took my hormones for the first time, did I consider should I, or should I not? No, I did not and I just took them. When I had surgery, did I consider should I, or should I not? No I did not and I just went ahead with surgery. So again I never had a choice to make.
However, all of the above is a fallacy. Why? Behind every statement, there was a predicated assumption of wanting or longing to be a female, being hardwired in my personality, so to speak. Hence every action I took was predicated on me becoming a female. In other words I had a choice without realizing that I did.
SoupSarah, I'm sorry that you feel hurt, when I say you had a choice. I don't like hurting people, it's not in my intention or nature to do so. However, my thinking is completely different from yours on this issue and to me, unfortunately one always has a choice, it's not that I believe that, it's what I know. Every choice has a consequence. Whether it is fair or not, good or bad, is not the point. Even a person who feels like they did not have a choice, does not mean they actually did not.
You chose to transition over dying and as a consequence you lost everything. Even in Allie's case, even given that she is 'deeply programmed to protect her family". Allie chose family over death and as a consequence ended up being less than happy than she was previously.
In the case of you giving your ex wife, 'wife or death' choice, your ex wife chose death. Regardless of how sick, repugnant and wrong her choice was. It was her choice.
SoupSarah when you mention your Gender Dysphoria and intersex condition and when Allie mentions her Gender Incongruence both of you had no choice in regards to those conditions, just like a person who is born with Type I diabetes, Thalidomide babies born with no arms, born blind or deaf. They also had no choice whatsoever in their conditions, just like you. However, in all the cases I have just mentioned, treatment or adaptation to those particular condition is undertaken, so that one will be able live their lives to the fullest extent possible and that includes me.
Whether you decided you had a choice or not in your situation, is your perspective. However, the solution to your situation was based on choice and as you said and I quote:
Quote from: SoupSarah on August 03, 2024, 10:12:35 PMI then atempted suicide in 2018 - after a failed mental health assesment by the NHS. This faliure sparked me to get some proper help (as I was having 'flashbacks' and was suffering from cPTSD as well as DID).. 3 years of hard work, reliving some desperate times, some atrocities and some heinous crimes against me. I beat DID, I merged into one person, me.. and then I started rebuilding my life.
To date, in 3 years I have found the love of my life, changed country, got married, bought a house and car - moved my daughter over to live with me and got a great job. I am happy and level and at peace. The first 50 years of my life a nightmare - hoping the next 50 are much better. My novel of my life is in the works and I am touting for publishers as we speak.
Transitioning, has yielded the peace, contentment and a much better life than you ever did before and as you have said and I quote;
Quote from: SoupSarah on August 21, 2024, 09:44:55 PMit was because if I did not do this, I would be dead.
The choices we make are inside ourselves. We can choose how to think, what perspective to have on life, what beliefs to hold, and whether to be happy or unhappy. We can choose to change or stagnate.
We all have this power, it's called, free will, which nobody can take away from us. So even if life isn't perfect, one still has control over how we respond, how we feel and how we see things. Such is life.
I wish with all my heart that the next 50 years of your life are beyond your wildest dreams in terms of happiness and contentment. Please let me know when you publish your book, as us Aussies would say; "Fair Dinkum I would buy a copy".
Love and HugsSarah BOfficial GreeterPS Edited quotes to reference the original
@SoupSarah@Allie Jayne@Sephirah
Quote from: Sarah B on August 24, 2024, 07:56:32 PMHi Everyone
You chose to transition over dying and as a consequence you lost everything.
THe first line of my post was '
If choosing between living and dying is a choice - then I guess it is a choice' - clearly acknowledging the semantic response to their being an actual choice.. the point.. which I seemed to fail to communicate - is there is no practical choice. Killing yourself is a choice - but it is a long term solution to short term problems.. and not something I would ever hope anyone would make as a CHOICE...you get me.. practicalities make some choices nonsense and that leaves you with little option that are realistically possible.
Would you look a cancer patient in the eyes and say, 'you had a choice to get cancer, why did you choose to get cancer?'.. in the same way you cannot say to me I had a choice about GD. I understand your semantic argument that the 'treatment' is a choice.. but really as a human can you say that death is an option and do you really think that is a message you want to put out on a public accessible server that vulnerable people with GD access??
By saying we have a choice we are leaving the whole community open to people like my ex wife saying 'well go on then, kill yourselves'.. There are enough of those people around already - we don't need to start giving them invitations to quote members of this community that say transition is a choice. We all have a responsibility to protect those that come after us, to somehow make their journey's easier than what we had it - make their CHOICES easier.. not offer them the dry semantics of 'death is an option'.
My childhood is to horrific to publish - my transition the cause of great loss that I simply summarised but purposefully ommited the pain and the emotion from - for I was wanting to promote a future, a purpose to this whole thing of transition and to display that 'IT IS WORTH IT IN THE END'.. I really think some people need to take on responsibilities and realise what they are writing is being read by many many other people, some vulnerable, some haters and some curious.. and to stop trying to score points.
I told my parents I was a girl 2 weeks before my 5th birthday. It really went own hill for a long time. I took care of my Mom and when she died I had to transition. It was that simple.
Quote from: SoupSarah on August 24, 2024, 10:22:33 PMTHe first line of my post was 'If choosing between living and dying is a choice - then I guess it is a choice' - clearly acknowledging the semantic response to their being an actual choice.. the point.. which I seemed to fail to communicate - is there is no practical choice. Killing yourself is a choice - but it is a long term solution to short term problems.. and not something I would ever hope anyone would make as a CHOICE...you get me.. practicalities make some choices nonsense and that leaves you with little option that are realistically possible.
Would you look a cancer patient in the eyes and say, 'you had a choice to get cancer, why did you choose to get cancer?'.. in the same way you cannot say to me I had a choice about GD. I understand your semantic argument that the 'treatment' is a choice.. but really as a human can you say that death is an option and do you really think that is a message you want to put out on a public accessible server that vulnerable people with GD access??
By saying we have a choice we are leaving the whole community open to people like my ex wife saying 'well go on then, kill yourselves'.. There are enough of those people around already - we don't need to start giving them invitations to quote members of this community that say transition is a choice. We all have a responsibility to protect those that come after us, to somehow make their journey's easier than what we had it - make their CHOICES easier.. not offer them the dry semantics of 'death is an option'.
My childhood is to horrific to publish - my transition the cause of great loss that I simply summarised but purposefully ommited the pain and the emotion from - for I was wanting to promote a future, a purpose to this whole thing of transition and to display that 'IT IS WORTH IT IN THE END'.. I really think some people need to take on responsibilities and realise what they are writing is being read by many many other people, some vulnerable, some haters and some curious.. and to stop trying to score points.
This is not about scoring points, Sarah. This is about understanding why you are who you are. That's literally all it is. You did not fail to communicate this. I have seen this viewpoint so many times it's like half of the way people feel about themselves here. And while I understand it, I very much come down on the side of the other Sarah on this.
You are appealing to emotion.. and that is a logical fallacy. No one chooses to get cancer. No one chooses to be trans. What you're saying is.. I understand the emotion behind it but in reality it makes no sense.
Sarah has laid out her argument in a well rounded, open ended discourse.
What I do agree with, is what you say when you say that by acknowledging what we do in life leaves us, and the whole community open, to people with differing views to our own.
It does. Of course it does. But that's what being human is. It's having differing views. It's having a different outlook on life. If you can't come to terms with that between people who are the same race, what hope do we have as a species? How often have we seen this come up time and time again? Race? Skin colour? Ethnicity? This is no different. To just hide behind it and say it isn't a thing is not who we are. We have to face our demons to exorcise them. To pretend they don't exist is folly.
SoupSarah you are doing what many people do. You are equating choice to be something you could have chosen to do differently. And if you had, maybe your life would have been different. You're absolving yourself of free will, sweetie. I have discussed this at length with Sarah B because she wasn't sure she should post anything at all. Even though what she had to say was something that needed to be said. Way better than I can, I might add. :) Just because you can do X or Y, doesn't mean in your life you can do Y and can't do X. We don't always accept the choices we make, but we do always have to understand them. As the Wachowski sisters eluded to in the Matrix movies before they both came out as trans. They knew this even then. And yeah... I don't disagree. :)
Quote from: Rachel on August 25, 2024, 04:13:59 PMI told my parents I was a girl 2 weeks before my 5th birthday. It really went own hill for a long time. I took care of my Mom and when she died I had to transition. It was that simple.
I am so sorry to hear that, Rachel. If you don't mind me asking, how old were you when your mom died? You didn't specify and I feel kind of weird for asking.
*hugs*
Sarah and Sephira, the debate over choice is a diversion from this topic and not what the OP intended.
In many of the perspectives, we eventually have to agree to disagree. Believe me, of most of my life I believed as you do, and I took pride in my choices, but in recent years, I learned harshly that my life was not entirely in my control. When the choice to transition or protect my family came, I chose to protect my family, but when my health continued to fail, my doctor pointed out that all of the options would negatively affect my family. I had chosen an immeasurable amount of times in 60+ years NOT to transition, and I was still in this mindset when my doctor explained that there wasn't an option which I would like. I couldn't make that decision, I lacked the courage, and to be honest, I was defeated. I just said 'whatgever' and the doctor ordered me to use the patches.
It more than rudely told me I wasn't part of this direction, the dissonance of doing what I did not believe in plunged me into a deep depression. My therapist was worried, and told me I had to accept what was happening, but I couldn't, and still haven't. The stress was a significant contributor to my heart attack. This should indicate how much I didn't want to take this path, and why I could never make that choice.
Just months before this, I was sick, but still believed as you do, that I had choices. Previous to that, I did have some choice, but when it got critical, my options disappeared. The differences between your perspectives and mine are time and experience. You are right for you at this time in your life, but, unfortunately , not for me.
Hugs,
Allie
Hi Everyone Allie mentioned in her post above and I quote:
Quote from: Allie Jayne on August 30, 2024, 03:13:24 AMSarah and Sephira, the debate over choice is a diversion from this topic and not what the OP intended.
The discussion about choice has been between all four of us namely, me, Sephirah, SoupSarah and Allie and arose from the topic "The straw that broke the camel's back.". Allie is right and that the discussion has diverged from the original post and needs to revert to the original post.
One of the reasons why I considered not posting any further even though I wanted to, was not going to solve the diagrammatically opposed views of, you have a choice and you do not have a choice. In other words we have to agree to disagree. Another reason was, I did not want this thread locked or even worse deleted.
So I ask politely, that everyone please refrain from discussing 'choice' further in this thread and if anyone wants to discuss the topic of 'choice', please create a thread to do so.
Take care and all the best
HugsSarah BGlobal Moderator@Allie Jayne@SoupSarah @Sephirah @Northern Star Girl
Healthy debate and opposing views should be welcomed as long as they stay that way and don't get personal - I think everyone in this topic has been remarkably diligent in providing their thoughts without it needing any sort of moderation..
For me - there was no straw - it was a tsunami that I could not hold back... My camel drowned.. its' back not worth mentioning. :)
I was bullied a lot back in school and it hurt a lot. Good thing was the classmates that bullied me did change and proven it to me. It was at the 10th high school reunion they apologized to me calling me Nikki. It has been great ever since and we keep in touch. Said they learned their lesson and learned about my transition to female after. I have fully forgiven them
Quote from: SoupSarah on August 30, 2024, 06:34:33 PMHealthy debate and opposing views should be welcomed as long as they stay that way and don't get personal - I think everyone in this topic has been remarkably diligent in providing their thoughts without it needing any sort of moderation..
For me - there was no straw - it was a tsunami that I could not hold back... My camel drowned.. its' back not worth mentioning. :)
Yeah I love you all. SoupSarah, you know I love you. But Allie and Sarah B are right, that's not what this thread is about. And there are some things which... just... everyone has their own view on and arguing about them just ends up with everyone chasing their tails. Irresistable force/immovable object and all that.
Sometimes it's better to just let it go. As that horribly annoying Disney movie insists on, for anyone under 8 years old, lol.
I will tell you something else for me. And this is something I've never shared with anyone. Back when I was a kid, I found one of my mum's bras, and put it on. I stuffed it with socks, and put a top on over it. Looking in the mirror... I don't even know how to explain what I felt. It felt both right and wrong at the same time. I never, ever had the urge to do that again, because.. I think that while feeling grown up and right made me feel good, feeling like I was literally stuffing a bra with socks made me feel really, REALLY bad. It was such a juxtaposition of emotion. I hated having to do it, but seeing how it made me look, felt like... right? I don't even know. All I knew is there was something wrong because no one else I knew did that. Or felt like that. Had that impulse. It made me feel probably more confused and out of place than I already did. With far more questions than answers.
Quote from: NikkiM on August 30, 2024, 06:48:54 PMI was bullied a lot back in school and it hurt a lot. Good thing was the classmates that bullied me did change and proven it to me. It was at the 10th high school reunion they apologized to me calling me Nikki. It has been great ever since and we keep in touch. Said they learned their lesson and learned about my transition to female after. I have fully forgiven them
That is extremely awesome, Nikki. Kids can be so cruel because they have not been in the world long enough to learn tact, or how the world really works. It's only when they grow up and learn how to not be kids that... yeah, a lot of people change. I am very, very glad you got to experience this because childhood experiences can be massively traumatic for a lot people. And they are scars that take a long time to heal, if they ever do.
*hugs*
Quote from: Sephirah on August 30, 2024, 07:05:20 PMYeah I love you all. SoupSarah, you know I love you. But Allie and Sarah B are right, that's not what this thread is about. And there are some things which... just... everyone has their own view on and arguing about them just ends up with everyone chasing their tails. Irresistable force/immovable object and all that.
Sometimes it's better to just let it go. As that horribly annoying Disney movie insists on, for anyone under 8 years old, lol.
I will tell you something else for me. And this is something I've never shared with anyone. Back when I was a kid, I found one of my mum's bras, and put it on. I stuffed it with socks, and put a top on over it. Looking in the mirror... I don't even know how to explain what I felt. It felt both right and wrong at the same time. I never, ever had the urge to do that again, because.. I think that while feeling grown up and right made me feel good, feeling like I was literally stuffing a bra with socks made me feel really, REALLY bad. It was such a juxtaposition of emotion. I hated having to do it, but seeing how it made me look, felt like... right? I don't even know. All I knew is there was something wrong because no one else I knew did that. Or felt like that. Had that impulse. It made me feel probably more confused and out of place than I already did. With far more questions than answers.
That is extremely awesome, Nikki. Kids can be so cruel because they have not been in the world long enough to learn tact, or how the world really works. It's only when they grow up and learn how to not be kids that... yeah, a lot of people change. I am very, very glad you got to experience this because childhood experiences can be massively traumatic for a lot people. And they are scars that take a long time to heal, if they ever do.
*hugs*
It was a long time to heal from it which I have recovered from it.The song that made them change was Hurt by the late Johnny Cash.They heard it and knew what they did to me was wrong
Quote from: NikkiM on August 30, 2024, 10:26:09 PMIt was a long time to heal from it which I have recovered from it.The song that made them change was Hurt by the late Johnny Cash.They heard it and knew what they did to me was wrong
Wow. I have never heard that before. I just YouTubed it. That is extremely powerful. So extremely powerful.
Quote from: Sephirah on August 02, 2024, 02:48:10 PMIn keeping with the theme of having thread titles that give you no idea what is in it without clicking on it... (not done on purpose, honest... ;)) this is about tipping points.
I am interested in whether you had a single event, or moment in your life which set you on the path to discovering, accepting, or actively working towards being yourself. If there was one thing you can put your finger on which you can say "This was what tipped the scales I'd been trying to balance!"
Or... conversely, whether you were literally just waiting for the time people listened to something you were telling them since the minute you could form words.
For me, it was a dream. One dream, one night. The most vivid dream I've ever had. And I still remember the details to this day, nearly 20 years on. It wasn't quite lucid, but it felt like it. I tend to have vivid dreams most times... my subconscious seems to have the idea that it can invite all the exotic dancers and stockpile copious amounts of alcohol when my conscious self is not around to stop it... but this was on a whole other level. It was like living a version of my life which was the past, present and future rolled into one. I saw with a clarity I never had before, and have rarely had since.
What was it like for you?
I've been close several times, but never transitioned. Even after nearly half a century, I'm still figuring myself out. I do know I have never been happy physically being a man, I have always wished I were a woman, but then all of the social expectations with gender have never sat right with me.
I think I probably would have transitioned twenty five years ago, if the requirements for transitioning were different. Back then, they wanted you to live as a woman for a year before you could even be placed on HRT. I was not interested in living as a woman, I just wanted to physically be one, if that makes any sense. I still feel bitter about that, all of these years later. Many people have in the past told me, it made sense, if you want to be a woman, you have to live as one - that never made sense to me. Why must I accommodate a role, that shouldn't exist in the first place?
The problem with being myself, is that I can't be myself so long as society has expectations on people, so long as we continue to define one another, and try to place each other in boxes. I think I am coming to that realization now, more so than ever before. I don't want to live as a man, I don't want to live as a woman, I don't want to live in a predefined role. I just wan to feel happy with my body, I want to be happy with my voice, I want to be "me".
One of the reasons I never transitioned, is because of that demand people put on one another, to live a specific way based upon what is between their legs. I just never wanted to do that, further, the fear of repercussions of a vengeful society had left me avoiding any transition to begin with, it would be a double whammy, on one side I would have opposed my birth gender, on the second side I would have broken gender roles assigned to us.
I think society is finally coming around to my way of thinking, at least a lot of society is. It only took the majority of my life for them to 🤣 Gender roles are slowly vanishing, thankfully, at least in my mind thankfully. Still, there is the demand by some to keep people in their "place" by gender, but it seems to be dwindling and hopefully will be gone entirely in another couple of decades.
I just want to be in the body I would feel most comfortable in, and spend most of my time away from people in general. Anyway, getting back to the point of the thread, I think this is probably the closest I am to accepting myself, as well as clarity as to who I am. If I am to transition, it is going to be for me, not to fill in some gender role for other people.
Unfortunately, at this time, even though I do have that clarity, it is not an easy path to follow. If I were to pursue it at this time, I would probably end up homeless, and to be honest, I don't have the resources to ever feel comfortable in my own body regardless.
@zamber74 Dear Zamber:I am very glad to see that you were able to log in and once again submit a posting after
our January 1st site crash.
I most certainly recall your earlier time here on the Forum... and I am thrilled to see
that you were able to get your member account back again...
WELCOME BACKAs you are certainly aware, the site experienced a site crash on January 1st this year and much
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Some things have changed here on the Forum since you were last here... you should
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As we embark on this new chapter, we urge all returning members to familiarize themselves
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cc: @Lori Dee @Sarah B
For many years I fought a kind of low level internal guerrilla war with myself over my gender expression, until I realised it was a conflict over how I thought people thought I should be.
One moment of clarity came when I stopped thinking and started asking the people closest to me what they did think, instead of putting my own thoughts in their heads and beating myself up over that. It's a long time ago now, but the more I talked, the fewer battles I fought with myself and the more allies I realised I had, the easier it became.
Basically I was fighting myself and the masculinity scripts I had been brought up with and I came to realise that while some of the scripts could be quite useful, there was no law that said I couldn't find feminine scripts useful too. That was a breakout moment.
Quote from: zamber74 on September 18, 2024, 01:22:22 PMI've been close several times, but never transitioned. Even after nearly half a century, I'm still figuring myself out. I do know I have never been happy physically being a man, I have always wished I were a woman, but then all of the social expectations with gender have never sat right with me.
I think I probably would have transitioned twenty five years ago, if the requirements for transitioning were different. Back then, they wanted you to live as a woman for a year before you could even be placed on HRT. I was not interested in living as a woman, I just wanted to physically be one, if that makes any sense. I still feel bitter about that, all of these years later. Many people have in the past told me, it made sense, if you want to be a woman, you have to live as one - that never made sense to me. Why must I accommodate a role, that shouldn't exist in the first place?
The problem with being myself, is that I can't be myself so long as society has expectations on people, so long as we continue to define one another, and try to place each other in boxes. I think I am coming to that realization now, more so than ever before. I don't want to live as a man, I don't want to live as a woman, I don't want to live in a predefined role. I just wan to feel happy with my body, I want to be happy with my voice, I want to be "me".
One of the reasons I never transitioned, is because of that demand people put on one another, to live a specific way based upon what is between their legs. I just never wanted to do that, further, the fear of repercussions of a vengeful society had left me avoiding any transition to begin with, it would be a double whammy, on one side I would have opposed my birth gender, on the second side I would have broken gender roles assigned to us.
I think society is finally coming around to my way of thinking, at least a lot of society is. It only took the majority of my life for them to 🤣 Gender roles are slowly vanishing, thankfully, at least in my mind thankfully. Still, there is the demand by some to keep people in their "place" by gender, but it seems to be dwindling and hopefully will be gone entirely in another couple of decades.
I just want to be in the body I would feel most comfortable in, and spend most of my time away from people in general. Anyway, getting back to the point of the thread, I think this is probably the closest I am to accepting myself, as well as clarity as to who I am. If I am to transition, it is going to be for me, not to fill in some gender role for other people.
Unfortunately, at this time, even though I do have that clarity, it is not an easy path to follow. If I were to pursue it at this time, I would probably end up homeless, and to be honest, I don't have the resources to ever feel comfortable in my own body regardless.
Yeah I get this, Zamber. Probably more than you know. And I see this a lot even still. "What is a woman?" To my way of thinking, it's just you. It's not about proving you're some package of expectations, mannerisms, attributes... living up to some goal people set for you. What is a woman? It's just you. If you want to be under the hood of a muscle car... if you want to be chomping cigars in the military oiling guns... I think the only person who has the right to determine who they are, is the person who has to reside in their own skin. Most tomboys in the world, most badass chicas who forge their own way would probably be disgusted at what contributes "living as a woman" in order to get treatment in order to just be you. It's an outdated way of thinking, I agree.
Real life experience living as a woman... most trans folks have had that for many years. It's called being born. We just live as our kind of women. It's that simple. Like every other woman does.
I get you, honey. And I hope that you can be in a place where you can do this, okay? Because I think you have the right attitude. No it isn't easy. I hope... you can get to a place where you are comfortable in your mind, if nothing else. <3
Hi Sephirah! These are such wonderful posts, and there helping me dig deep and find even more meaning in my journey! So, thank you for that!
For me, it was a lot of things followed by a lot more things, followed by 3 words, followed by 5 words. Let me explain.
I just had a lot of things fall into place at all the right times. There were so many events that led to me getting here. Here are just a few.
-trip to Japan, helping me increase my empathy capacity
-near suicide experience, giving me something tangible to "never go back to"
-considering how people felt around me, and how i impact their lives. This helped me to peel back the narcissistic layers I didn't recognize that I had
-ChatGPT gave me the ability to reorganize and process my thoughts and feelings in a way that I never even considered.
-weed. I had avoided smoking my whole life out of some weird idea that weed makes you dumb/annoying, etc. After trying myself, all the distractions quieted down so I could sit with a thought and work it out right.
-getting off all my mental health meds. Abilify, straterra, bupropion, celexa, adderall and more are now no longer altering my brain
-I got perma banned from ->-bleeped-<-. I would go and tear Trumpers apart all day and night. It was consuming me with fear that we would have another Trump win and therefore, all my progress would mean nothing because of P2025. Being forced out helped me to calm down. Sure I can still go on there and read/look, but without being able to interact, it was like this slow detoxing from social media as I use it less and less daily.
-my kids. After seeing my kids and how they are, how they act, etc, I decided that they are happiest when I and my partner are happy. I knew I couldn't be happy living as I was.
These are just a handful of the MANY things that changed for me.
The words?
"I'm a girl."
and
"I love me. So much."