Hi.
Pls pardon the intrusion as I don't really belong to your community. That will be obvious in a moment. But I do think that someone here can help me if they're willing to give up a min or two. My plight may be one that you folks can identify with?
I'm a 50 y/o guy, completely straight, with a 24 y/o daughter who is taking the road to reassignment to become a man - FTM. She has been underway for months now, male hormones were started in the summer. What started as a lesbian at about 13 has apparently evolved into the desire/need for something else. Pls keep in mind: I love my kid, and I accept whatever 'Amy' wants for herself. My problem is not her sexuality nor her favored gender. Not at all - in fact, ZERO. I love her INSIDES, the wrapping outside means nada to me.
Ok, my problem:
She lives hundreds of miles away and if that wasn't bad enough she is moving to San Fran in about 10 days. We are desperate to connect with her but she blows us off in so many different ways. She won't return calls, she won't even email most times. We want to meet with her before she leaves because she needs to know that we love her & respect her wishes and SUPPORT her...
But this seems impossible,,,,to get her even to speak with us. And we don't know why. Amy will site 'lack of support' from us - this is ludicrous, even delusional.
So, at last, my question: How can I knock down this damn barrier between us? I am reading and trying to learn what to say, what not to say - I do realize the I used the terms 'she' & 'her' in thsi post and that is a No-No, but I am new to this and was just trying to be expedient and articulate my problem. What is this "lack of support" song that she is always singing? I just do not get it. Is not treating her and her friends just like I would anyone else enough?
What can we do better? How can we connect? Is it me, the father, who is the problem?
WHAT IS SUPPORT? And why does she feel she doesn't get it from her parents & family?
I'm just lost and time is running out. Amy will fall off of teh planet in SF and be lost to us.
Thanks for any help. I am here for the short term only and won't be bothering you folks for long.
sign me,
clueless parent in NY
thanks for any & all assistance you're willing to provide
Nothing to say, no advice. Except that I am a female -to-male as well and can only dream that my father will be like you once he finds out.
Lifting my glass to a good and caring dad,
Nero
Have you tried addressing HIM as your son, identify with HIM with things dads and SONS do, just try treating HIM like one of the GUYS.
For whatever reason, your son does not perceive that you are or have given him support.
The only thing you can do is give him space and time, just let him know you are there for him whenever he is ready.
If you push, he will withdraw further.
Sarah L.
Sir:
I'm about your age, a father, as well as trans.
I remember what it was like in my 20s, angry, making my own way, resentful of the cards I was dealt. I was pretty isolated from my family then. It calmed down, and with luck, will become closer.
My advice is pretty simple. There is only a certain amount of what you can do in a positive sense. A lot to do that can be negative. Offer and try to keep in touch, in a way that respects his journey, respects his perspectives and feelings, even if they are not shared by you. Know that he may isolate from you for a while, even a long while. Calm down.
No parent is perfect. Maybe a therapist can be of a bit of help to you right now. Strongly consider getting in touch with your local PFLAG group.. I can't say enough good things about them.
Namaste and good luck.
Tara
There's been some good advice here. I concur with Tara, that he may be in that post-teenage resentment. Everyone else had a normal adolescence and he feels ripped off. Not by you, but by his circumstances. PFLAG was a great suggestion. Also just being there for him. Eventually he will realize that you are supportive and that his circumstances are nobody's fault.
The pronoun thing is important for us. The better you can do at that, the better he will feel. I know it's hard, but even my mother managed eventually, even though I didn't transition until I was 42, so she'd known me as her daughter for a long time. Name's important too, getting that right.
I also wanted to say that yes, you do belong here and are welcome here. This site is for significant others, friends, and family as well as for those of us who are gender variant.
Welcome to the site,
Dennis
Not being aware of the full situation, my only guess, for starters, would be monikers. How do you address him? Using his male name, male pronouns? If you're still using female name and female pronouns, that can be a big problem for him. My parents (I'm 21) have been pretty good about this, and use my new name and pronouns, and I know that they support me; even so, when they slip up and use the old name or call me he, it does sting. I know they don't mean to, but I can't help feeling that way.
Other than that, I don't know enough about the dynamic between you and your son to give any other advice.
Lia
Thanks for the thoughtful replies - I have been reading them carefully & trying to glean info.
To answer a couple of you at once: No, I have not referred to my kid by anything but 'Amy' and associated female pronouns. This is not by choice, nor denial, but rather because I simply DID NOT KNOW to. You see, it is my other daughter who confronted us last week and told us what was up. Left to her own devices, Amy would be going thru this entirely without our knowledge.
Amy has never made her intent clear to us, so we never knew that 'she', 'her', 'daughter' etc would have upset her. The transgender issue just came outta nowhere.
You folks are correct: we may have been making my kid miserable all along, but never knew.
I will be happy to call her 'Amy' 'Andy', 'Ralph' or even fricken' 'Clarence' if it means reestablishing ties with her. (there I go with pronoun goofs again)
Dennis - thanks for the welcome, be sure I will not wear it out.
Nero - thank you for the good words. Give your father a chance. I am NOTHING SPECIAL and if I can deal & accept,,,,,then I am sure that most if not all loving fathers will also. Don't let your dad go thru what I am going thru if you can possibly help it. We parents may well be clueless, but we care deeply.
genovais / Lia - you (or your av) look SO MUCH like my own little Amy that it startled me!
And to ALL - thanks for your replies. If there are any others out there willing to type, I am dying to read.
Clueless in NY
Lots of us wear out our welcomes, Clue. Why be an exception? ;)
I'd start by realizing that I am not going to be able "to knock down" anything at all. This is, maybe, a position you have never been in before -- your child being in-charge of the relationship between you. That can be a very huge difference and one it takes some effort to become used to.
You could start practicing the pronouns and name, I assume he doesn't go by 'Amy' anymore, when you write here.
If you talk with your wife I would be willing to guess that this did NOT "come outta nowhere." Try to think back: there are almost bound to have been some signs. The fact that you blew them off or didn't "put much stock in them" may be one of the reasons he sees you as "not being supportive."
Have you tired to call him, or do you expect him to call you. After all, if you're anxious to talk and he holds the cards, then you better cowboy-up and go to him, one way or another. As a parent it's a bad-feeling position. I know.
I don't know how or if you "made him miserable," but he certainly seems to feel like he is not gonna get a reasonable "hearing." I hate being blunt, but, maybe that's the key: YOu need to take the cotton outta your ears and put it in your mouth. Let him talk and you and your wife finally start to listen. You are not required to "know it all" and since you are admittedly 'clueless' in this regard you should find it easy just to listen.
If you have pleas and ideas about 'what he should do' I would suggest you bury those. If he's moving in 10 days, he obviously doesn't think he needs any suggestions from either you or his mom. But, you might at least make a humble plea for him talking to you two. And LET him do just that if he's willing. He talks, you two listen. (Try to get all your tears and anger out beforehand so you're not tempted to interrupt him.)
I wish all four of you the absolute and very best to come from all of this turmoil. It will be maybe the hardest thing you have ever done if your are successful. Of course, if you are you will have a son you can start to appreciate. Perhaps that's all he's ever truly wanted any way: appeciation.
Nichole
I just now thought of something as far as the new name / old name preference goes:
Amy recently has started a screen name on another type of forum. It is 'XXXXamy' - not a man's name
Likewise, her/his email addy is AmyXXXX@XXXX. etc Again, clearly still using her/his original name and not a new one
Does that make ya wonder any? I guess that I am...........
Dear Clueless,
I have a guy at work, who when we started to call him "Impact Ed" - after the local lighting company we all hate, told us he would rather be called "Weasel Nipples." And so it was, and is.
Call people what they want to be called, never give up hope, and moving to SF is not the end of the world, only the end of the earth. And hey, at least when you go to visit, you don't have to spend a week in Columbus Ohio.
Clueless:
As to 'making your kid miserable', you could not know. You were given a 'daughter' and that's all you could know. My parents never knew the pain and shame of putting me in dresses for church and private school. How could they?
We (transsexuals) often want nothing more than to be normal. I wanted desperately to be a normal girl so other girls would be friends with me. So people wouldn't be so cruel to me. I didn't want this. I'dve given anything to be a normal child. Girl or boy. Just not this.
But it was not to be.
So, yeah, my deep shame about this caused me to hide it all. So, my dad could not know. Just thought I was a 'tough' girl.
This may be how 'Amy', your child feels.
Imagine how confused he is. Think about what he is going through as a process, a journey. I'm sure there are so many elements in flux, that what is now may not be how he ends up.
Best wishes, Tara
If your son hasn't told you and won't communicate with you, you could always send a message through your daughter that you are aware and are supportive and would like to be there for him when he's ready to reopen communication.
And he may still be using his girl name in places because he's not ready to do it as one big step, but rather to come out gradually. Or, as Tara says, what he is now may not be how he ends up.
Dennis
Clueless:
Get a message to your new son... perhaps through your daughter.
Dear Andy:
I love you son.
Dad
Simple words say it all.
Cindi
I agree with the simple message. You might also send him a link to this post. You have spilled out your heart and done so eloquently. You sound like an awesome dad, loving and teachable. However, any relationship takes at least two people who want to have it. The problem might not be with you at all, but with him. At this point, the best three things you can do are: communicate, communicate, and communicate. Even if he doesn't answer you back right now, it will keep the door open, which is so very important. Let him know that he is your child and always welcome in your life.
I truly wish you the very best of luck in this. As has been said, yes you do belong here. We are honored that you have shared this struggle with us. So seldom do we get to hear it from the parent's side. So thank you so much!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
You're off to a good start - you accept him!
I'd start by asking questions, like "How can we support you? What can we do to help?" And more specific things, like "What do you want us to call you? What's your new name? Do you want us to tell anyone about your transition?"
It really helped when my mother took this route - she was constantly asking me, "How do you feel about..." "When did you start feeling..." "What do you plan to do about..."
If it's possible for you, you could ask him if you could help him financially with hormones or therapy - that might show your willingness to support him.
And finally, get him on Susan's!
Posted on: January 30, 2008, 09:42:15 PM
QuoteClueless:
Get a message to your new son... perhaps through your daughter.
Dear Andy:
I love you son.
Dad
Simple words say it all.
Cindi
Cindi, that's brilliant.
Yea, that was pretty brilliant. And even before I read your idea Cindi, I did tell him that just y'day.
The words came easy too - of course, this is my kid.
I also told him that I'm impressed that he has the courage to make his life what HE wants it be. That takes a lot more balls that I have..........
BTW: I give you folks the same credit. I don't pretend to know what your struggles are, but I do empathize and wish you all well. You clearly are a caring crowd here.
I also have a name to call him by now, so that I can start addressing him correctly.
The wall is not down yet, but maybe there are a coupla cracks I can see him thru - that's cool. Now the ball is in my court.
I'm pretty excited! It's a beautiful day here in the Adirondacks, the sun is shining, and I have made some progress with my son. And man oh man,,,,,,,I always wanted a son!!!!
I'm still around for awhile tho - Lots of learning left to do. Thanks for so much already.
Still Clueless, but also Hopeful
Have a GREAT DAY
Quote from: cluelessparent on January 31, 2008, 10:28:57 AM
Yea, that was pretty brilliant. And even before I read your idea Cindi, I did tell him that just y'day.
The words came easy too - of course, this is my kid.
I also told him that I'm impressed that he has the courage to make his life what HE wants it be. That takes a lot more balls that I have..........
BTW: I give you folks the same credit. I don't pretend to know what your struggles are, but I do empathize and wish you all well. You clearly are a caring crowd here.
I also have a name to call him by now, so that I can start addressing him correctly.
The wall is not down yet, but maybe there are a coupla cracks I can see him thru - that's cool. Now the ball is in my court.
I'm pretty excited! It's a beautiful day here in the Adirondacks, the sun is shining, and I have made some progress with my son. And man oh man,,,,,,,I always wanted a son!!!!
I'm still around for awhile tho - Lots of learning left to do. Thanks for so much already.
Still Clueless, but also Hopeful
Have a GREAT DAY
so happy for you that you got some communication with your kid. one thing also, you should know is that he probably idolizes you as i did my father and i assumed as a young child that i would turn into him, but then puberty happened and shattered my illusions.
Well, Clue. Ya seem to have done good. Sincerely, congratulations. You may just be a dad a son can be proud of. :) All the best to you, him, your wife and daughter.
Fortunate living in the Adirondacks. I'd love to live on Lake George.
Hugs, (and other than a couple of exceptions I rarely hug men.) ;)
Nichole
Quote from: Nichole W. on January 31, 2008, 07:25:19 PM
Fortunate living in the Adirondacks. I'd love to live on Lake George.
Hugs, (and other than a couple of exceptions I rarely hug men.) ;)
Nichole
;D Why Thanks!! ;D
Yes, Lake G is very pretty. We're in the mountains, near Lake Placid. Gorgeous up here!! And plenty of bugs :laugh:
Oh yea, you were correct: It didn't 'come outta nowhere'. Now that I think about it, some signs should have been evident all along. I was just,,,,,well,,,,,,,to be honest,,,,,,just fricken' clueless.
thanks much
Quote from: Nichole W. on January 31, 2008, 07:25:19 PM
Hugs, (and other than a couple of exceptions I rarely hug men.) ;)
Nichole
:( can I be an exception?
Dennis
Quote from: Dennis on February 01, 2008, 12:02:08 AM
Quote from: Nichole W. on January 31, 2008, 07:25:19 PM
Hugs, (and other than a couple of exceptions I rarely hug men.) ;)
Nichole
:( can I be an exception?
Dennis
oh, I'll hug you and squeeze you to death, Den. you sexy thing you.
* Nero ducks as Den decks him*
Quote from: Nero on February 01, 2008, 04:15:49 AM
Quote from: Dennis on February 01, 2008, 12:02:08 AM
Quote from: Nichole W. on January 31, 2008, 07:25:19 PM
Hugs, (and other than a couple of exceptions I rarely hug men.) ;)
Nichole
:( can I be an exception?
Dennis
oh, I'll hug you and squeeze you to death, Den. you sexy thing you. * Nero ducks as Den decks him*
I was going to tell you that of course you're an exception, Dennis, but it looks like Nero has the situation 'in hand!' Hmm, looks like you guys are doing just fine without me at all!!
@ Clue: Thanks for the confirmation. It hasn't been my experience that children leave GID unspoken of. But, it has been my experience that parents are less-than-willing to accept and talk about it.
As a mother, I cannot say I don't understand that. I am pleased that my children have never shown signs of having GID. I doubt I would have passed off signs as being 'a phase' or 'nothing.' I know I wouldn't have handled things the way Mommy & Daddy did. But, it's a hard thing to accept that your child is not the sex he look like he is.
All the best, Clue
Nichole
I was just reading this...you are an AWESOME parent! You should honestly be proud of yourself for taking the step to support your son through his transition. A lot of parents arn't that willing. Only if there were more people like you, this world would be a better place! Good luck to you and your son both!
Jet
I haven't read more than the OP and the first few replies.
I know that it hurts deeply to be referred to as 'she' or my legal name. If in your shoes, I would start off the process of regaining a relationship by asking what he would like to be addressed as, and making sure you use he in reference to him. It hurts far more than a cisgendered person could imagine, to be referred to as the wrong gender by your own parent, and the damage of that has obviously been done, but can be repaired.
Hey Clue,
I'm jumpin in this late,
But one thing I wanted to tell you is that it isn't always a problem with you.
I did the same thing to my parrents that your son is doing to you.
Sometimes we need some space to find out ourselves and who we are.
It is realy hard to do that with parrents arround.
You might just try to realize that he will likely be back in fairly regular contact with you after a while, but it might be year or two.
I needed space. Space to think. Space to reflect.
Without my parrents influence.
The bird has to leave the nest at some point.
It will likely be back in touch and for visits, but right now it might be seeing how beautiful the world is outside of the nest, and learning what fun, thrills and dangers lie there.
Don't think it's just you, although little things like pronouns are huge things when you are on a short leash like at times like these.
My teacher once said: "Sometimes we need to retreat, in order to advance"
We all need some space sometimes.
We all need to step back sometimes and reflect.
That isn't a mark on your character that your son may need to now.
Sara
Thank you, not sure I deserve so many good words from you all but it sure helps.
I am just a tad more confident for our meeting tomorrow.
<fingers are crossed>
Sara, methinks that you're right. Nailed it, I think.
And tomorrow I will wish him well, tell him I love him at least 12x and send the little schitt off to San Fran
And then hope for the best.
I keep saying 'Thank You' to you guys. I really mean it.
Here it goes again
thanks....
Clueless
Quote from: cluelessparent on February 02, 2008, 05:41:41 PM
Thank you, not sure I deserve so many good words from you all but it sure helps.
I am just a tad more confident for our meeting tomorrow.
<fingers are crossed>
Sara, methinks that you're right. Nailed it, I think.
And tomorrow I will wish him well, tell him I love him at least 12x and send the little schitt off to San Fran
And then hope for the best.
I keep saying 'Thank You' to you guys. I really mean it.
Here it goes again
thanks....
Clueless
That's great. You'll do great. And I'll have Mother say a prayer for you that all goes well with your son. (
mean no offense, if you're not religious)
No worries Nero.
Intentions like that couldn't offend anyone.
thanks
QuoteAnd man oh man,,,,,,,I always wanted a son!!!!
That's the best thing I've heard in a loooooong time. Kudos to you!
I moved across the country (west to east) and have to say it's the best thing in the world. There was no way I could handle being around my parents and people that I grew up with. I just wanted to find a place to hide and finally grow up. I also don't call back or email back my parents all the time, not really sure why. I haven't come out to them yet so it might be that I hate hearing how upset my moving was, or that "I will always by their son". Guess I'm just saying that moving away isn't so bad bad emotionally for your son. I feel so free to finally move forward.
Also I started crying in reading about how the you two are at least getting along. I'm just so happy, and hope that my parents will be as involved in learning about how I feel. Maybe it's time to start having some father/son bonding time? I would guess that finding out what he likes doing and see if there is a way to incorporate it in to something you do. It might also help to do some background work, find some books, and stick around here.
Oh I'm so happy, and wish you the best of luck
Well, we all did meet today and it went very, very well.
PHEW
Everybody is happy with everybody, and even we parents are happy with his decision. We're excited for him.
His head seems to be on very straight, very well informed & aware and just plain ready to act. He's happy.
And the little schitt even has a cute girlfriend! And she is very involved with his regime.
So, it went very well.
And I even made it home in time for the kickoff.......
Nichole, I wished you well today as we cruised by L. George. (You can see glimpses of it from the highway and it looked nice in the bright winter sun) I hope ya felt some good vibes come "from outta nowhere" today around 8:30 & 4'ish...........
Thanks all btw- I am still reading & learning thruout the site. You folks are good to each other, I tip my hat to y'all
Clueless
Cheers! :laugh: Clue!
Sara
I don't think you are clueless anymore. You need to know how much it will mean to your son that you are behind him. I never had that. Ever. I stopped transition 20 years ago because of the guilt I felt from hurting my mother so much. Because of that, I waited until after her death to finally do it. It has only been 2 years now since the beginning of my transition. Your son does not know how lucky he is. Your words have touched me. That is rare.
Marco
i think that my parents were concerned about me... i even think that would have been very accepting. they tried to talk with me a couple of times but i never really opened up to them because i was unsure of my feelings and i just wanted to be normal...
clue... i think that you are wonderful. the is one of the best posts i have ever read :'( :D
Thanks for the good vibes yesterday, Clue. Looks like you are giving them off to a lot of folks now. :)
Not bad for someone who didn't known what he was doing just a couple of days ago. Sometimes wisdom arrives when we least expect it and from the direction we least expect it as well. Listening to your heart can be a pretty good thing, no?
Just remember it came from you, all that wisdom came from you.
Hugs,
N~
My parents "say" they are supportive but still call me by my male name, say he, and my dad still calls me Bud. Idk where Bud came from. They even do it while we're in public. That really ticks me off. They're like "Well its hard to remember". Geez! Make an effort! Do they buy me jewelry or girl stuff for my birthday or xmas?, no. At least when I started presenting as female they stopped inviting to all the family pick nicks, weddings, birthday parties, etc. When are they going to figure out I want nothing to do with them?
Actually..... My dislike for my parents goes deeper than the GID issues. Ultimately, I think its because they never talked to me or played when I was little. I feel I grew up alone. They feed and reprimanded me when I was little. That's about it. "Hey guys. Thanks for the food, shelter and clothing. Now beat it."
You folks are making me a little weepy-eyed here..................
I'm humbled by your responses.
I've learned a few things here this past week (Gawd, has it only been ONE wk? You should see all of my new grey hairs :o)
I have learned:
- you're compassionate people here, willing to share knowledge & emotions freely
- there can be happiness found after your transition (I did not really know this)
- it's much easier to find your way when you have solid support
- friends, not family, are most often the key supporters
But don't naturally assume that your parents are gonna not understand, not accept, not care. Just continue to give them the opportunity to love you, know you, and know how you feel and what causes you pain. Then the ball is in THEIR court and they'll have the chance to respond PROPERLY, to the CORRECT ISSUES. (This problem applied to our situation anyway, I am not saying that it does to yours.)
Ya see: It's real easy for us to be clueless, cuz we basically think you're almost perfect just as you are! And we think "ok, I am not always perfectly happy myself, yet I survive, almost thrive,,,,,,therefore my kid's troubles may not be so extreme". "I will wait and see"
And, clearly, we are often wrong - so stay in our faces and try again. Throw us a crumb once in a while so that we know that ya don't just hate us. Do ya have any idea how much time Mrs Clueless and I have spent wondering how we could have made our kid so PO at us??? Jeez Louise........
Yuppers - We parents are clueless ???, but we love you. Capitalize on that.
Nichole - got your message but I cannot PM backatcha. :(
You're just terrific. And you're right, and I will get that message out as well as I am able to.
If you have any suggestions as to where & how other than just thruout my daily life, I'd like to spread that word a little farther.
Got to run - actually supposed to be working today
<can you imagine?>
Have a great day
Still Clueless, but I'm working on it.
6 more posts and you will be able to pm! It really comes faster than you expect :)
I purchased and sent these two books to my parents while recovering from GRS:
True Selves
http://www.amazon.com/True-Selves-Understanding-Transsexualism-Professionals/dp/0787902713 (http://www.amazon.com/True-Selves-Understanding-Transsexualism-Professionals/dp/0787902713)
Trans Forming Families: Real Stories About Transgendered Loved Ones, 2nd Edition
http://www.amazon.com/Trans-Forming-Families-Stories-Transgendered/dp/0615123074/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1 (http://www.amazon.com/Trans-Forming-Families-Stories-Transgendered/dp/0615123074/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1)202220485&sr=1-3
It was easier than talking to them. They seemed to like the books. They thanked me enough for sending them.
I started my transition over twenty years ago. My parents have come a long way, love me, and we get along famously. But they have never fully adjusted to using the correct pronouns and using my legal name in family circles. I don't think that they ever will.
There is nothing that I can do about it. I asked them years ago to respect me by referring to me as "she" and using my legal name. That's all I can do about it.
We are separated by a long distance which doesn't help. When we are together in public, they never cease to amaze me by calling me or using "him" or "his" every once in a while.
Fortunately, now, they are grey haired and obviously controlled by the affects of old age. No one gives it a second thought... for they must have Alzheimer's ;)
I love them so much. We've managed to survive it all.
Cindi
Tell Your Folks to get their acts together; nicely at first. That is a small favor that you are asking of them.
I say, don;t ever be afraid to let your folks know you're PO'd at them if ya use a little bit of tact.
That's too bad, cuz it really is pretty easy to do - the pronouns and all.
I'm finding it mostly easy to use; he, him, his, 'Andy' and be comfy with 'em.
It felt fine to call him son. I thougth it would be weird, but it wasn't.
It does sound a little different when I hear his mom say it, but still okay.
I guess that I dunno how best yet to refer to past yrs, like when he was 10. Was he SHE then? Heck, I think she was.....
But those goofs don;t seem like they will matter too much. We'll get thru the tricky stuff ;)
What really helped was hanging with him for 3 hrs on Sunday and he was just so at peace with it all.
You could tell that he had turned a corner & he gave me confidence with his budding poise as a young man.
To sum it up: He is the same person that SHE always was but happier now. The same snotty kid, that sure hasn't changed. ;D
He can really eat now tho.
Thanks for the book ideas.....
Yes, it has been quick - there has been great progress.
I guess that he just needed to hear what we had to say.
And once we knew what was going on, the words just came very easy.
He's gonna be a good-lookin' guy too and he's already on his way. I really got a kick outta the 'Why do trans-men rock?' thread. ;D
There is true excitement in both myself and his mom,,,,,,,this kid is going to be happy.
We can all feel it.
And I wish the same for all of you.
Clueless
That last post, Clue. It should more than give you a clue about why you are 'deserving.' Read it.
N~
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 05, 2008, 06:44:32 PM
Fortunately, now, they are grey haired and obviously controlled by the affects of old age. No one gives it a second thought... for they must have Alzheimer's ;)
It's kinda nice when they get old and grey. I've told my mum not to worry if she screws up. I'll just tell people she's off her meds. That keeps her in line :laugh:
Dennis
Quote from: Dennis on February 06, 2008, 01:33:36 PM
It's kinda nice when they get old and grey. I've told my mum not to worry if she screws up. I'll just tell people she's off her meds. That keeps her in line :laugh:
Dennis
I've told my parents that if they screw up in public, it will be they who will be embarrassed, for I sure won't. ;) They have a unique problem in that around the other family members refuse to acknowledge me and that is the language that is used in those circles. It would be swell if mom and dad would stand up for me in those situations, but they are very non confrontational and don't want to get anyone upset. If I lived nearby and had constant interaction, I'm sure that the situation would be resolved in a few short months. But that will never be. I am not moving back to Utah!
Cindi
Quote from: cluelessparent on February 03, 2008, 09:25:56 PM
Well, we all did meet today and it went very, very well.
PHEW
Everybody is happy with everybody, and even we parents are happy with his decision. We're excited for him.
His head seems to be on very straight, very well informed & aware and just plain ready to act. He's happy.
And the little schitt even has a cute girlfriend! And she is very involved with his regime.
So, it went very well.
And I even made it home in time for the kickoff.......
Nichole, I wished you well today as we cruised by L. George. (You can see glimpses of it from the highway and it looked nice in the bright winter sun) I hope ya felt some good vibes come "from outta nowhere" today around 8:30 & 4'ish...........
Thanks all btw- I am still reading & learning thruout the site. You folks are good to each other, I tip my hat to y'all
Clueless
Our world would be the greatest world imaginable if there were more people like you in it.
Best wishes for all,
Rebis
O, Rebis, that was so sweet. and true.
Hugs,
Nichole
Posted on: February 06, 2008, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 06, 2008, 07:50:03 PM
If I lived nearby and had constant interaction, I'm sure that the situation would be resolved in a few short months. But that will never be. I am not moving back to Utah!
Cindi
:laugh: :laugh: I am thinking that you are underestimating your own abilities, Cindi. A few short weeks or days might be more like it! :laugh: :laugh:
N~
Thank you Rebis.
That was nice.
I just try to be good to people
Sometimes they notice
I'm pleased that you did.
Be well.
Clueless, but working on it.
Its good when parrents can except the situation that they may not agree with but I see that as a big step on their part in my case My parrents had nothing to do with me sence I was 18 in fact my whole famely outed me Im now 54 and my sister (wife) are moving her parrents to live with us because were they live they can not afford to live her mom and dad have excepted me for the road I have been traveling and expecialy her mom and I have had several talks over the phone and she wants to be suportive she knows that we are nothing more than sisters now and she respects that I could have only wished that my parrents could have done the same but as mom said I have them and any time I need a mother daughter time or talk they would be there for me so I guess all things come to a ending in good time
Kristin
i wish my dad was like you clueless. maybe he is, and he just hasn't shown it yet.
Quote from: J.T. on February 07, 2008, 08:11:14 PM
i wish my dad was like you clueless. maybe he is, and he just hasn't shown it yet.
JT - thank you
Make sure to tell him how important it is to you and remind him how important YOU are to HIM.
EVERY PARENT wants their child to be happy.
Toss him a crumb, tell him ya love him. Me? I just melt when I hear that word.........
Consider that most of us parents spent about 1,000 more hrs learning algebra than we did about parenting.
And it;s a tuff friggan' job. And we make mistakes; overreacting, underreacting, waiting & seeing.
Off balance at times, oftentimes.
Make mistakes? Gawd yes.
But that was me - Clueless
Dear Clueless,
You're a special guy. Your son is lucky to have you as his dad.
So, for being humble enough to admit you didn't understand it, for being brave enough to ask for help, and for being gracious enough to accept that help. Thanks.
Rep increased. Only my second nomination. :icon_tenisclap:
Rep increased again. ;D
I wish my dad was more "clueless." This thread makes me teary. Maybe it's because I can't get my dad to call me "Andy."
You're a great parent!
Wow.
2 more thank you's - humble thank you's
I had feared when I first posted that I would possibly be run outta this town.
Especially when I wrote "I am a parent and completely straight" I could just hear the booing in the background as you folks read!
I am pleased that I was wrong, even tho I suspect that many replies have been for the benefit of my son as much as for me.
And I'm okay with that.
Andrew: ya know, I just keep hearing the same darn song: We parents are just not getting the message. I don't know what that is a shortcoming of; is it our own ability to open our minds, your failure to express yourselves, fear of our own friends' reactions? I refuse to believe that the majority just do not care.
Andrew: if you are interested, I would like to try and help some. If you like, I will send you a PM with the intention that you would show it to your dad. I will talk to him, hombre to hombre, and I will try to make him understand something - just one parent speaking to another. I'll write it, you decide if it's worthy.
You decide, and let me know. I am going hiking in a few mins and I'll work on what I want to say to your dad while in the woods.
No hard feelings if there is no interest on your part.
You may ask why I would attempt this. The answer is easy: I am going to do my part in my own little corner of the world to raise awareness, to make people understand, to improve the life of my own son. He's part of your world now, you are his friends.
And I want his world to be a good one.
Off to play in the mountains now, wooHOO !!!
Clueless
Quote from: cluelessparent on January 29, 2008, 02:55:54 PM
genovais / Lia - you (or your av) look SO MUCH like my own little Amy that it startled me!
Clueless in NY
Dear Clueless,
reading this above I can sense a lot of sadness. So for what it is worth here is my little grain of salt.
You say you have a problem with the name and pronoun... Have you ever considered that you can try as hard as you can
you might not be able to manage to accept HIM until you've managed to let HER go? Yes it is plainly obvious that you loved and still love your little Amy so much and miss her. These feelings might need to be aknowledged, respected and recognised as normal and also to be dealt with. If not there is a strong possibility that they will eventually get in the way.
May be one of the first thing that you might need and have to do is to
accept and be ready to mourn her loss. Together with your wife and maybe even his sister with each other support you can still celebrate and hold the fond memories but eventually you might have to give up and forget all the hopes and plans you had for her. Having done this then you'll hopefully be able to
let her go for good and move on.
I sincerely believe that once you'll done that, as painful as it can be, then you will be ready not only to accept but also truely welcome HIM without any regrets.
Does it make sense that
once you have FULLY GRIEVED FOR YOUR LOST DAUGHTER then you'll be totally free and delighted to not only accept but also genuinely WELCOME YOUR NEW-FOUND SON as a gift and an exciting opportunity in your life as a deeply caring and loving parent?Of course it is not going to be easy, but, from what I have read here so far,
you are a loving and courageous person, ready to challenge yourself in order to do the right thing for the ones you love. Go n-éirí do bhóthar leatGood luck on your journey.
Light, Love & Respect.
Maebh
PS. I wish Andy knows how lucky he is to have a father like you. You can be proud for he has in you a great role model of a man.
Maebh
Hi Clueless,
I just read this entire thread and would like to say that any trans kid would be happy to have you for a dad. You rock! BTW, I think you'll need to change your screen name... you sure aren't clueless! ;D
y2g
Good idea Lady Amarant,
QuoteRep increased. Only my second nomination.
I just increased his reputation too and this is my first one!
Quote from: Maebh on February 10, 2008, 09:22:21 AM
Quote from: cluelessparent on January 29, 2008, 02:55:54 PM
genovais / Lia - you (or your av) look SO MUCH like my own little Amy that it startled me!
Clueless in NY
Dear Clueless,
reading this above I can sense a lot of sadness. So for what it is worth here is my little grain of salt.
You say you have a problem with the name and pronoun... Have you ever considered that you can try as hard as you can you might not be able to manage to accept HIM until you've managed to let HER go?
Yes it is plainly obvious that you loved and still love your little Amy so much and miss her. These feelings might need to be aknowledged, respected and recognised as normal and also to be dealt with. If not there is a strong possibility that they will eventually get in the way.
May be one of the first thing that you might need and have to do is to accept and be ready to mourn her loss. Together with your wife and maybe even his sister with each other support you can still celebrate and hold the fond memories but eventually you might have to give up and forget all the hopes and plans you had for her. Having done this then you'll hopefully be able to let her go for good and move on.
I sincerely believe that once you'll done that, as painful as it can be, then you will be ready not only to accept but also truely welcome HIM without any regrets.
Does it make sense that once you have FULLY GRIEVED FOR YOUR LOST DAUGHTER then you'll be totally free and delighted to not only accept but also genuinely WELCOME YOUR NEW-FOUND SON as a gift and an exciting opportunity in your life as a deeply caring and loving parent?
Of course it is not going to be easy, but, from what I have read here so far, you are a loving and courageous person, ready to challenge yourself in order to do the right thing for the ones you love.
Go n-éirí do bhóthar leat
Good luck on your journey.
Light, Love & Respect.
Maebh
PS. I wish Andy knows how lucky he is to have a father like you. You can be proud for he has in you a great role model of a man.
Maebh
Hello Maebh,
Thanks very much for responding.
You make a good point and my daughter is actually the one who struggled with this.(or likely is still struggling)
She is unhappy about losing a sister and your message rings true with the way that she is feeling.
As far my wife and myself - this hasn't been much of an issue. It's actually rather easy to accept that 'she' is gone because 'she' was very unhappy while 'he' seems much more at peace & confident with his new life.
I can honestly say that I went from shock & disbelief to understanding & acceptance in about 90 minutes.
After I recovered enuff to start breathing again, well all of the pieces seemed to fall into place rather quickly.
But your words do ring true for my daughter, who is still missing her sister. I suppose that I should address this fairly soon.
Thanks for the advice and also for the good words.
They're appreciated.
Clueless
Thank you, saraswatidevi & y2gender
Wishing you well.......
hey clueless,
I've been following your post but I never answered hehe. So I figured I'll put in my two cents to see if it means anything hehe. Most of it has been answered so far in regards to how to treat your son and with pronouns and stuff. I forgot if you said how old he is, but like, the biggest stressor when I came out to my parents was that embarrassment. They tended to accept it after some thinking and like talking to me (very awkward stage), but like I just wanted to crawl back in that little closet from how awkward things tended to get. There is probably nothing wrong with you, and you just have to wait for your son a little bit to adapt and feel more comfortable. I know you said you had lunch with him, so that was probably a nice thing for the two of you :D
You seem like an awesome parent to actually come and try to find support on some forum though for sure. It takes a ton of courage to just do something so small like this hehe. I'm sure your son will turn out perfect with all the support you can give him when he struggles. Also, I don't know if your son is like me, but I won't tell my parents anything unless they ask and I'm in that "mood" to talk you know? So might also be something worth looking into, although I don't really know anything about your son hehe. Well take care and keep being an awesome parent :)
Sorry clueless,
On this one point you are incorrect.
QuoteEVERY PARENT wants their child to be happy.
I guess every parent says that but many are more invested in their own view of what 'happiness' is than in what the child thinks will make him/her/other happy. Many parents do not hesitate to insist that their children should do what the parent 'thinks' is right. And keep on insisting long into the child's adulthood.
I think it is a testimony to you that you think all parents are much like yourself. And would do the right thing if they knew what it was. I don't. Mine weren't. And I didn't even have any major issues.
I have enjoyed this thread a lot. After reading what so many people go through with their parents this has been a breath of fresh air.
Quote from: cluelessparent on February 11, 2008, 10:19:26 AM
Hello Maebh,
Thanks very much for responding.
You make a good point and my daughter is actually the one who struggled with this.(or likely is still struggling)
She is unhappy about losing a sister and your message rings true with the way that she is feeling.
As far my wife and myself - this hasn't been much of an issue. It's actually rather easy to accept that 'she' is gone because 'she' was very unhappy while 'he' seems much more at peace & confident with his new life.
I can honestly say that I went from shock & disbelief to understanding & acceptance in about 90 minutes.
After I recovered enuff to start breathing again, well all of the pieces seemed to fall into place rather quickly.
But your words do ring true for my daughter, who is still missing her sister. I suppose that I should address this fairly soon.
Thanks for the advice and also for the good words.
They're appreciated.
Clueless
Thank you, saraswatidevi & y2gender
Wishing you well.......
Dear more clued-in than you think,
You are so perceptive and concerned about your children. And also so loving too, if only there were more parents and people like you around...
90 minutes! Whoa, the power of unconditional love! I'm sure his sister will get all the support she needs from you and your wife. Who knows she might even look forward to building a happy new relationship with her new found brother. Specially when he'll fix her car with you. ;)
Anyway she can always console herself in the knowledge that she is now Daddy's unique little princess. :laugh:
Go dté sibh slan Safe journey to all.
With plenty of Love, Light, Laughter and Respect.
Maebh.
I just got a birthday card from my parents. Just so we're clear, I'm MtoF. On the envelope is my old male name. The card says "Son- Now that you've reached a certain age, ...". It doesn't say Daughter it says Son. I hate them >:(
Quote from: cluelessparent on February 10, 2008, 08:45:27 AM
Wow.
2 more thank you's - humble thank you's
I had feared when I first posted that I would possibly be run outta this town.
Especially when I wrote "I am a parent and completely straight" I could just hear the booing in the background as you folks read!
I am pleased that I was wrong, even tho I suspect that many replies have been for the benefit of my son as much as for me.
And I'm okay with that.
Andrew: ya know, I just keep hearing the same darn song: We parents are just not getting the message. I don't know what that is a shortcoming of; is it our own ability to open our minds, your failure to express yourselves, fear of our own friends' reactions? I refuse to believe that the majority just do not care.
Andrew: if you are interested, I would like to try and help some. If you like, I will send you a PM with the intention that you would show it to your dad. I will talk to him, hombre to hombre, and I will try to make him understand something - just one parent speaking to another. I'll write it, you decide if it's worthy.
You decide, and let me know. I am going hiking in a few mins and I'll work on what I want to say to your dad while in the woods.
No hard feelings if there is no interest on your part.
You may ask why I would attempt this. The answer is easy: I am going to do my part in my own little corner of the world to raise awareness, to make people understand, to improve the life of my own son. He's part of your world now, you are his friends.
And I want his world to be a good one.
Off to play in the mountains now, wooHOO !!!
Clueless
Sorry so late in replying - I've been away from the forums - anyway, I'm not sure if now'd be a good time to show something like this to my dad. He's a little fragile lately, his pet just died, and it might be a little too much. Maybe if you write it now and I can show it to him during spring break if I think he's ready.
Anyway, thanks so, so much. It means a lot to me that you'd do something like that for me. Thanks.
Quote from: TreeFlower on February 12, 2008, 01:26:59 PM
I just got a birthday card from my parents. Just so we're clear, I'm MtoF. On the envelope is my old male name. The card says "Son- Now that you've reached a certain age, ...". It doesn't say Daughter it says Son. I hate them >:(
I'm sorry to hear that.
Be sure to tell them how hurtful that is to you. Remind 'em that they're supposed to be in your corner, no matter what.
Andrew, I will get that to you
Thanks everyone.
Clueless
Posted on: February 12, 2008, 07:58:17 PM
Andrew, I sent that message for your dad. Decide for yourself if it has any value.
Check your Messages, pls
Good luck!
Clueless
Thanks much.
Hi TreeFlower,
QuoteThe card says "Son- Now that you've reached a certain age, ...".
Looks like you really have the cluelessparent. I know this is very painful for you but I can't help laughing. Is this guy (your father) on another planet?
I hope you had a wonderful birthday in spite of it all.