Poll
Question:
Would you have transitioned/started transitioning if it weren't for the Internet?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 29
Option 2: No
votes: 28
Well the topic makes it pretty explanatory. But I'm definitely curious to know if it weren't for the Internet and the knowledge that you gained from it, where do you think you would be now?
-Kit
P.S. I'll assume many would like to answer "dead" but if you do wish to answer that way, I'd love to hear more about why you would be unable to cope if you were unaware of how many other people out there were like you.
I had no internet when I went through this in the mid to late eighties.
I honestly had no idea what this was, that there was a name for it, or that there was anyone else in the entire world that had a similar problem. I thought that I was the only one who had ever been like this. Really.
I grew up in the Mormon faith and led a fairly sheltered life. I didn't even know about gay people. Really.
I had already started testing the waters for my own identity by crossdressing and going out in public whenever I could when I stumbled across this thing called Compuserve. I suppose it was something like the predecessor to what we now call the internet. You could call up and connect for six bucks an hour to H&R Block's mainframe and "chat" with poeple. There were a handful of us that managed to find each other in that world. I did manage to meet many of them in my travels as I flew to many cities in my profession.
So.... yes, I would have continued without that virtual connection to a handful of others. But I am so glad that I found them in this big world. It made an impossible thing much more bearable to know that others had similar feelings.
.... and along the way I did find out about gay people.
Cindi
I would eventually have transitioned, but not yet. I knew bits and pieces about SRS from "sex change shock stories" in old South African tabloid magazines, but if not for the internet, I would not have had the courage to go through with it yet, I think.
I don't think I would have. Without the resources or people that I've interacted with throughout the years I probably would have ended up "offing" myself because of the isolation.
I suspect that the Internet will be one of the reasons I transition if I get that far. Right now, I'm doing a multi-front exploration, with small forays into assorted areas.
The Internet is definitely helping out with them.
I first heard about sex change operations was when I heard about Christine Jorgensen. I thought to myself, "a ->-bleeped-<- that just went one step to far." This was back in the fifties.
I knew there was something that wasn't normal about me, such as desiring to be dressing up as a girl. It was not long after, the desire escalated to a need of desperation at times. I thought for certain I was possessed by demons or going insane, or something along that line. And there is no way I was ever going to even talk about it to anyone else, I determined it would go to the grave with me. I was further discouraged to sharing this secret with anyone, especially not after overhearing someone say what they would do if they ran into such as a perverted male wearing a dress.
Eventually I discovered what transsexuality was in 1998. I got this book in the local library in Midland, the first one on the topic of transexualism, it was about a trans lady named Canary Conn. The book was Canary Conn's own personal story and her experience transitioning in the early and mid-sixties. She would be near my age now.
I cried pretty darn near through the entire book, except at the end of her story. What an unexpected twist of fate takes place. I must say that this kid surely deserved her well-earned life as a very lovely young lady that she was in the end. It was only a short time after that I began transitioning to full time by 2000.
I do believe and must admit that it was the Internet that was my first educator on the subject of transsexuality, or otherwise it may have been a while longer before I would have taken the initiative to begin transitioning, as I did after discovering this group 8 years ago. It was 8 years ago I began my journey to fully transition to being the woman, the same one who sits here now typing my story out in part for those who will read it. This feels to me like the most natural and normal thing to be. I love myself for once in my life. Actually it's the other self that is now slowly fading away from memory like a bad dream.
Cindy
Transition? i dont know, but i do know this.... If it wasnt for the internet, and here, id be dead now. I was coming very close to suceeding at something id attempted serveral times before, and realising i wasnt alone saved my life.
Transition? too many factors to tell... it sure helped though... considering my rather, personaly lead transition, till a doc would help me.
R >:D
I voted but didnt post, so figure i might aswell....
Would i have transitioned, yearp i think so.... all the stuff i found out at first was from television.
But would i have gotten where i am now, this soon.. i doubt it very much. Would i even be alive ... i really dont know, best guess is no.
Kiera, in reference to the twist of fate, she was referring to Canary Conn's book, not Christines Jorgenson's.
Original post: I have no idea what would've happened to me without the internet; it was incredibly helpful.
I believe I would have transitioned without the internet. I had begun making changes before I even acknowledged that I was a trans woman rather than a committed cross dresser. Reading stories and issues on the internet regarding transition and being a trans woman confirmed to me what I suspected after watching television shows about transsexuals.
I believe that having the information and inspiration I found on Susan's and other sites like this definitely saved me many years of pain and depression.
hugs & smiles
Emelye
No (haven't 'technically' transitioned yet due to circumstances beyond my control).
To me the net was always just for research and ->-bleeped-<-, until I lost everything and became desperate enough to converse with people through type on a screen.
I knew I was male but had always thought transsexuals were weak souls who couldn't just play the cards they were dealt. And I certainly wasn't one of them. I was a normal person. I wasn't one of those ->-bleeped-<-s. Yeah right. ::)
My pride wouldn't let me accept it. Not until chatting through type on a screen with others like me was I able to accept that this wasn't a shameful condition. When I finally let go of my pride and admitted to myself I was trans, I cried for days.
And I would NEVER have spoken about this transsexual thing face to face with anyone, it was only through anonymous type on a screen that I dared.
So, no I would never have accepted this had it not been for the net.
Quote from: Kiera on March 01, 2008, 05:10:54 AM
There seems to be this recurring theme throughout the experience of many younger, so-called "internet transsexuals" which to me is a very disturbing behavioral pattern indeed . . . And then there's the whole question of orientation, sexual attraction preferences which for many also seems to remain clearly defined and unchanging, despite ones alleged gender identity to the contrary?
huh?
What do you mean about sexual orientation and attraction preferances? what the hell has that go to do with gender anyroad?
and personally i find being labeled an 'internet transexual' demeating and god damn rude.... Im going through the same things as you, and every other person with this problem, why am i punished because the media of discovery is different?
are you a 'book transsexual'?
'public library transexual'?
'tv documentry transsexual'?
I clearly cant see your point with that post, as it just seems quite inflamatory tbh....
and so what if a fair few younger transpeople have attempted suicide or may not have lived had they not had early access to recources?
you do realise 75% of transsexuals attempt suicide before 20 right? and 50% of those succeed... (38% overall of all transsexuals die before 20....) 'disturbing'? yeah, not half.... so stop bashing a media that clearly saves lives...
R >:D
QuoteAnd then there's the whole question of orientation, sexual attraction preferences which for many also seems to remain clearly defined and unchanging, despite ones alleged gender identity to the contrary?
I don't want to jump down you throat But are you seriously suggesting that i should no longer be bi-sexual because i am becoming female in body ?
You also quoted me saying ""Would i even be alive ... i really dont know, best guess is no."" Perhaps it's my own fault for not giving it context , so i will elaborate. Due to the fact that i moved around alot, i found it hard to make and keep good friends. I think gender issues compounded that. A teenagers parents are rarely seen as supportive and because of hormones, and parents tyring to keep control of their "kids" there can be alot of friction, also my sisters did not live near me in my teenage years.... so as i am sure you can imagine i had very little support, and did not feel cared for. So i did make some very good friends on the internet that helped my through some very rough times, and i tried to help them when needed too. They did _not_ know i was trasnsexual. It had nothing to do with transsexuality. They were just friends, nothing more.
I feel that you labeling me an "internet transsexual" was both misinformed and quite offensive.
Just what we need, more labels to segregate people.
I transitioned in 93, the internet existed, but I didn't have access at that time. I lived in a rural area, was starved for info, I bought every book I could find on the subject. I found out about a transgender support group in a city two hours away and made the trip a few times for monthly meetings, just to have contact with other trans people. The internet has made it much easier to find information and meet other people, both in person or on boards such as this. It's a blessing.
Zythyra
Hi Kiera The twist in fait I was speaking of was in the story of Canary Conn. I believe that all happens as it should be. Our biggest grief was to deny it and work against it. Believe me it is much easier to go with the flow, let your inner voice be your guide. Yes it was near impossible to transition at all back then unless one had a sufficient bank account to do so.
Back in those days many people just didn't understand nor did they make any effort to try. Today at least there are way more open minds and with how the system goes now a days people are getting turned into robot, both mommy and daddy working and the kids running around loos all over the place. So I would say 80% are to into themselves to worry much about the trans person walking next to them. That gave me more confidence if not even bold at times. Something gets my curiosity I have to go check it out.
I started 8 years part time then went full time. Now I just don't even give it a second thought about going out as Cindy. It's just an everyday occurrence to me. But I will admit that would have never had the nerve to come out until I discovered there were not just a few but many others out there like me.
Susan's was also the first TG oriented messaging forums, although I found many others I kept coming back here until about 7 years ago when I came out to be full time out there and on the job as well. I just got to preoccupied with what I was doing to even think about this place until I was pensioned off. Well me I gets to feel like a can of worms when I sit around to long and went out and found me somethings to keep me occupied. SRS finally cam in 2004.
I just don't feel old enough to sit around and knit sweaters I still like a little excitement. I am never going to die, I am going to get abducted by aliens or grow up to be a fairy.
Cindy
Well for me:
When I grew up my parents (more specifically my mother) embraced that I was more feminine than either of my two brothers. Now that was largely because my mother didn't have a daughter and she let me know I was "supposed to be" the daughter. So I got treated more as the "delicate" one and they didn't give me any problems when they did catch me dressing. I was also treated by my friends as being "genderless" (as they put it, he's not a male, he's not a female, he's an 'it,') and my older brother took care of any problems I might've had with others since he was on my school's football team. Now at the time, this resulted in I didn't have a concept that anything was wrong, and grew up not depressed about my gender.
Now because of this I grew up pretty healthy mindsetted until I hit college and that's when I actually did start hanging around "men" (I wound up going to a school with a M/F ratio of 5:1.) That's when I started realizing something was seriously wrong. Prior to that, my only awareness of ->-bleeped-<- was the occasional news story about someone trying to RLE on the job and getting problems because of it, or perv-filled chatrooms on AOL where it was fairly rare if someone in there was TS. And around then I started to find resources on the web. Suddenly I was surrounded by a bunch of guys that loved looking at porn on the web, and talking about sex non-stop, drinking, screaming out windows, etc.
So that's when I realized something was horribly wrong and started searching around the budding Internet. But at the time, I had either the lighter sentence "maybe I'm gay" or the harder sentence "am I a transsexual?" Reading on the web at the time, either there were people that were stealth and had been outed, or people struggling hard with their transition. If anything the early Internet community was not a strong force of support that it is now.
Now as the Internet has grown with more support available and information, so did I grow to accept myself almost directly by ratio in my opinion. If the Internet was the way it is today I would've most certainly been able to accept myself much faster. On the other hand, if the Internet didn't exist I probably would've had no concept of what TS was, and would've assumed that my position in life was to just keep bouncing between different peer groups as I did and not quite been able to figure out why I didn't fit in right. I always managed to do things alone up until I accepted myself, and I'm sure I would've just continued to "fit in" instead of actually fitting in.
Would I have transitioned without the Internet? Who knows. I do know that it would've been much longer in the future and I wouldn't have avoided marriage out of "fear" that I might be a transsexual from having the information available to me early on. If anything having the knowledge from the budding Internet early on caused more problems in my life than it did good before the dam broke.
-Kit
Quote from: Rachael on March 01, 2008, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: Kiera on March 01, 2008, 05:10:54 AM
There seems to be this recurring theme throughout the experience of many younger, so-called "internet transsexuals" which to me is a very disturbing behavioral pattern indeed . . . And then there's the whole question of orientation, sexual attraction preferences which for many also seems to remain clearly defined and unchanging, despite ones alleged gender identity to the contrary?
huh?
What do you mean about sexual orientation and attraction preferances? what the hell has that go to do with gender anyroad?
and personally i find being labeled an 'internet transexual' demeating and god damn rude.... Im going through the same things as you, and every other person with this problem, why am i punished because the media of discovery is different?
are you a 'book transsexual'?
'public library transexual'?
'tv documentry transsexual'?
I clearly cant see your point with that post, as it just seems quite inflamatory tbh....
and so what if a fair few younger transpeople have attempted suicide or may not have lived had they not had early access to recources?
you do realise 75% of transsexuals attempt suicide before 20 right? and 50% of those succeed... (38% overall of all transsexuals die before 20....) 'disturbing'? yeah, not half.... so stop bashing a media that clearly saves lives...
R >:D
Rachael, Hon, I agree with you 100%. Thanks for putting it out there.
Karen Lyn
I agree as well, it was 8 years ago I may very well have been found dead from a 100 miles per hour collision with a rock cut if I hadn't found this group. I am so thankful that I found this group, there wasn't anything close by for trans folks where I could go to get support. Well I still continued for a time sharing and giving support back to those who needed it. Sometimes at all hours of the night it was my way to say thanks and show appreciation of the folks here. Now here it is 8 years later and still doing the same thing but this time around I found that many of the members are youths, some young enough to be my grand kids. Different personalities altogether from when I was here 8 years ago. Most are very intelligent and more advanced in their choices then many of us old turkeys from 8 years ago.
Cindy
I would have transitioned without the internet, but like so many others have already said withoot the love and support I have found here, I wouldn't have the courage to be where I am today. i also believe that I would be either locked up in some hospital or dead.
Hugz,
Ariana
Quote from: Kiera on March 01, 2008, 05:10:54 AM
There seems to be this recurring theme throughout the experience of many younger, so-called "internet transsexuals" which to me is a very disturbing behavioral pattern indeed . . . And then there's the whole question of orientation, sexual attraction preferences which for many also seems to remain clearly defined and unchanging, despite ones alleged gender identity to the contrary?
Keep in mind that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different concepts, related, but distinct. Sexual orientation changes for about a third of trans-people as they transition, or so I've been told (and read) a few times, but it's by no means a given.
Quote from: Rachael on March 01, 2008, 09:28:13 AM
and so what if a fair few younger transpeople have attempted suicide or may not have lived had they not had early access to recources?
you do realise 75% of transsexuals attempt suicide before 20 right? and 50% of those succeed... (38% overall of all transsexuals die before 20....) 'disturbing'? yeah, not half.... so stop bashing a media that clearly saves lives...
R >:D
Thanks Rachael. We all know what a BITCH being gender dysphoric is so I agree that we really can't judge people for being pushed to or over that edge. I know I can't - been there myself a few times. The internet has been the best thing that has happened to trans-people and other gender variant people since Harry Benjamin, I'd say. If nothing else, it's shown us that we're not alone, that there are MANY more of us than anybody guesses at. That we're not freaks. It has been the locomotive force, I think in making gender issues more visible in society at large, and the kind of mainstream acceptance we are starting to get an inkling of is largely due to that visibility, support and self-respect.
The US military invented something good, at least!
Quote from: lady amarant on March 02, 2008, 02:04:05 AM
The US military invented something good, at least!
Now, my dear, DARPA indeed started the Internet, but let's never forget that it was High Energy Physicists at CERN (Geneva) who invented the Web!
(and then, just a few years later, the US Congress killed SSC. >:D Sorry. It's a bit of a sore spot.)
Hi Alyssa M. I can't let you hang like that on that cliff, least ways not without some back up support from bellow. Welcome to Susan's hon
Cindy
I picked "yes", but I'm not clear about something. Is there a connection between GID and the internet? Transition and the WWW? If there is, what is it?
Quote from: Alyssa M. on March 02, 2008, 02:57:28 AM
Now, my dear, DARPA indeed started the Internet, but let's never forget that it was High Energy Physicists at CERN (Geneva) who invented the Web!
(and then, just a few years later, the US Congress killed SSC. >:D Sorry. It's a bit of a sore spot.)
hehe. point taken... :icon_redface:
Cindy -- the woman in the photo is Lynn Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Hill). I guess you could say I've got a huge "girl crush" on her. :icon_love:
Don't worry about Lynn -- I'm sure all her pro is bomber!
Thanks for the welcome Cindy -- it's always nice to know you're on belay. :D
Posted on: March 02, 2008, 03:48:20 AM
Quote from: Leslie on March 02, 2008, 03:32:50 AM
I picked "yes", but I'm not clear about something. Is there a connection between GID and the internet? Transition and the WWW? If there is, what is it?
I think the idea is that without groups like this or web sites like tsroadmap or Lynn Conway's site that it's a lot harder to get decent information about your options, so you're less likely to transition, even if it's really what you want.
Quote from: Leslie on March 02, 2008, 03:32:50 AM
I picked "yes", but I'm not clear about something. Is there a connection between GID and the internet? Transition and the WWW? If there is, what is it?
It's more about that the proliferation of knowledge on ->-bleeped-<-, and the availability of a somewhat anonymous way of retrieving that information that I'm referring to. For example, how many people live in places where the idea of a transsexual or any transgendered person is so taboo that the mere thought that someone might be results in them getting shunned out of existence, or otherwise treated horribly? In these areas, I would expect that the information wouldn't be available in the way it is now, if at all if it wasn't for the Internet and people taking the time and effort to put up and make sites like this one.
Now we know there were the few and proud pioneers who went forward (no names needed to be mentioned) whose stories we may (or may not) have heard about without this proliferation of knowledge. Many people prior to the Internet becoming a social medium available pretty much anywhere, well I wonder for them if it weren't so easily accessible in an anonymous way as it is, would they have sought help? Would they have just gone on with their lives?
For many on here, these types of boards and chat rooms have become to be therapeutic, more often than not acting as a "proxy therapist" by allowing them to be able to talk to people who have received therapy. Many people (myself included) give much advice or thoughts on things taken directly from our therapy sessions.
That's more what I'm getting at with this. Not the idea that "without the Internet, would you have been a transsexual to begin with?" I'm not trying to give the impression that this poll is a sorting hat between who is really a TS and who isn't. It's about whether they would've been able to follow through.
-Kit
Re: Would you have transitioned or started if it weren't for the Internet?
I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 1984......which proceeded the internet by about 12 years! I was taking hormones in 1986...
I agree the internet is a good tool for locating surgeons and making friends with like minded people but to say the internet is a catalist for people deciding if they are transsexual or not is insulting to say the least....
Quoteto say the internet is a catalist for people deciding if they are transsexual or not is insulting
I personally cannot see how this is insulting. If people had no access to books, television, internet etc with information about trassexuality would they still be one ? IMHO Of Course. Can this information be a catalyst to them both deciding and accepting that they have this condition and starting to do something about it ? I think it absolutely can and I myself fail to understand how this is an insult.
Quote
I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 1984......which proceeded the internet by about 12 years
The internet was around long before '96. and you had access to somebody could diagnose you, not everybody has this privilege. I think they would be many lost souls if there was not so much information around.
im with Dawnlette.... Ofcourse its a catalyst.... same as books, or someone who knows.... it helps you see what the hell is wrong with you!
The sudden rush to mention they 'have transitioned pre internet' by so many in this topic seems amusing, like its a ->-bleeped-<- badge of honour to have done it the old way... like the complaining routine of 'how hard it was "back in the day"' in ANY topic that deals with primarys and seconderies
R >:D
Quote from: dawn on March 02, 2008, 04:43:45 AM
Quoteto say the internet is a catalist for people deciding if they are transsexual or not is insulting
I personally cannot see how this is insulting. If people had no access to books, television, internet etc with information about trassexuality would they still be one ? IMHO Of Course. Can this information be a catalyst to them both deciding and accepting that they have this condition and starting to do something about it ? I think it absolutely can and I myself fail to understand how this is an insult.
Quote
I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 1984......which proceeded the internet by about 12 years
The internet was around long before '96. and you had access to somebody could diagnose you, not everybody has this privilege. I think they would be many lost souls if there was not so much information around.
I have been a computer buff since the 1980's and the internet was still in it's infancy in 1996 when I used to surf the net and there wasn't a lot on it....
The original question was 'Would you have transitioned or started if it weren't for the Internet'? and I would say if the internet existed or not, people would still be on the same path because we are born this way..
yes, but if you dont know what it is. the pain would be worse, and your more likely to eventually suceed with killing youself... many have said this.... the internet saved thier lives...
Some can transition in thier teens without help, id say most dont know what the feelings are. and they get so overpowering most cant live with it... the internet is simply a media for information, we found the info, we survived, celebrate it, dont treat us like leppers for using an 'easy access' media that you think makes you better somehow because you did it first and without it...
Someone learns to ride a bike without trianing wheels and just rides around thier street, yet thier friend learns WITH training wheels, and goes on to win the tour de france... whos the better cyclist? the one with help or not?
R >:D
QuoteI would say if the internet existed or not, people would still be on the same path because we are born this way..
_More_ people would _not_ know that "the path" even existed. This this not mean they are, or are not TG.
Quote from: Berliegh on March 02, 2008, 04:54:32 AM
I have been a computer buff since the 1980's and the internet was still in it's infancy in 1996 when I used to surf the net and there wasn't a lot on it....
The original question was 'Would you have transitioned or started if it weren't for the Internet'? and I would say if the internet existed or not, people would still be on the same path because we are born this way..
The question isn't "are you a transsexual because of the Internet?" The choices are the difference between "would you have transitioned or started if the Internet didn't exist?" and the other implied alternative, "would you have not transitioned or not started if the Internet didn't exist?" I certainly assume that GID is there regardless of whether the Internet exists. But whether someone accepts it or not is based upon whether the information was available in the first place for them to accept it.
That you got diagnosed in the 1980's implies that your therapist or whomever started the ball rolling towards your being diagnosed with gender dysphoria had the information available to diagnose it. That the information is more available now and has been growing steadily since the Internet started budding, that's not in question either.
As far as is known, most people that have GID don't seek therapy, however we know that the number of people diagnosed/treated for GID/self treating is increasing steadily. There has to be a cause for that, and putting this question out there is me wondering is it because the information is just more readily available, or perhaps some other reason?
I'm certainly open to alternatives.
-Kit
P.S. To add just a bit to what I said, yes it is so much easier access to finding information not just about surgeons, but it is also much easier to find gender therapists. I know even today it's still hard in many areas to walk into any therapist's office and be referred to a good gender specialist, assuming someone walked into the therapist's office to begin with, and once there they were able to tell the therapist about their GID without being armed.
And I'm sure there's a trickle down effect where a therapist who was unprepared for someone to come in and discuss that went home and googled gender identity disorder.
Quote from: DarthKitty on March 02, 2008, 05:25:26 AM
As far as is known, most people that have GID don't seek therapy, however we know that the number of people diagnosed/treated for GID/self treating is increasing steadily. There has to be a cause for that, and putting this question out there is me wondering is it because the information is just more readily available, or perhaps some other reason?
I'm certainly open to alternatives.
-Kit
Yes, there's an alternative. There is some evidence that chemicals in the environment and in the food supply (rBGH, atrazine, certain plastics and coatings for plastics) can mimic sex hormones or affect how they work.
How big of an effect might this be? Nobody knows. Nobody really knows what causes GID in the first place -- it's all really guesses still. Nobody knows how much exposure we have to these chemicals. And nobody knows how they actually affect humans.
My $.02 is that I doubt it's a very large effect, though I believe it's real. There's also some evidence that GID is mostly prenatal, so environmental factors would be surpressed a lot. More importantly, societal change (including the growth of the Web) seems so much more parsimonious an explanation.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on March 02, 2008, 05:42:51 AM
Yes, there's an alternative. There is some evidence that chemicals in the environment and in the food supply (rBGH, atrazine, certain plastics and coatings for plastics) can mimic sex hormones or affect how they work.
How big of an effect might this be? Nobody knows. Nobody really knows what causes GID in the first place -- it's all really guesses still. Nobody knows how much exposure we have to these chemicals. And nobody knows how they actually affect humans.
My $.02 is that I doubt it's a very large effect, though I believe it's real. There's also some evidence that GID is mostly prenatal, so environmental factors would be surpressed a lot. More importantly, societal change (including the growth of the Web) seems so much more parsimonious an explanation.
I think the environment plays a huge role in this - are we really gonna claim we are largely unaffected when Salmon stocks are plummeting due to the number of sterile intersexed fish born, or that polar bears will most likely die out before all the ice melts because all the females are turning lesbian? Gender variance has always been around as a natural thing, but our interference has pushed it into overdrive.
The chemical and pharmaeceutical industries have done a number on the world, and now the biotech nuts are taking over, who knows what comes next.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on March 02, 2008, 05:42:51 AM
Yes, there's an alternative. There is some evidence that chemicals in the environment and in the food supply (rBGH, atrazine, certain plastics and coatings for plastics) can mimic sex hormones or affect how they work.
How big of an effect might this be? Nobody knows. Nobody really knows what causes GID in the first place -- it's all really guesses still. Nobody knows how much exposure we have to these chemicals. And nobody knows how they actually affect humans.
My $.02 is that I doubt it's a very large effect, though I believe it's real. There's also some evidence that GID is mostly prenatal, so environmental factors would be surpressed a lot. More importantly, societal change (including the growth of the Web) seems so much more parsimonious an explanation.
Yes I agree the number of people who have GID could be increasing greatly from these chemicals being introduced to the environment and otherwise. There's such a huge number of explanations around that could explain for what's going on these days. I think ten good explanations are much better than pushing for a single one as being the be all end all definitions of why GID exists, or what people need to grab on to as an explanation as to why they are who they are.
But I guess I'm more looking for alternatives for as to how people are able to get through this in the first place, when in the past they wouldn't have?
Culture definitely is a big player in all this (the web inclusive.) But beyond the web what other examples of major changes have made it more possible today for people to transition than fifteen years ago, that if they were removed more people would instead cope than transition?
-Kit
The Internet only informs gives one the opportunity to learn if you are a TS or not and I agree with the statement you are born TS but you may not understand know what it is without information so how in Sam Hill are you supposed to seek help if there is no access to the that type of information. I remember when My sister and I use to play dress up when I was about four years old. Her clothes wouldn't fit so she dressed my with her dolls clothes, Ya I even remember vividly even after that many years. it was as tall as I was, it had shoulder length curly blond hair, beautiful blue glass eyes and pink cheeks and it would say mommy when you move it.
Well after all we both played with that doll. Anyway after my sister dressed me and generously decorating my lips with lipstick she would bring me into the living room wearing the blue dress from her doll. She would parade me before my parent informing them I was her new sister. I remember and man do I remember prancing around the living room so proud on myself.
Now to speed up the clock to the year of 19 and 62 when I ran away from home to join the hippies. I had my hair butt length and wore unisex clothes. I hitchhiked from southern Ontario all the way to New York city. Got rides mostly with truckers and they thought I was a girl, believe me I wasn't about to dissuade then from the notion either. I was a late bloomer like I didn't start looking anything like a young man until I was 25 years old. Anyway I ended up staying at the commune for two years, even had me a boyfriend and I can remember clearly to this day what he looked like. I was also quartered with the girls, a good many of the girls were runaways like myself.
Anyways circumstances mad it so I had to leave and go back home. It wouldn't be until 36 years later before I would discover there was a label that went with this.... disorder for lack of a better word had. Point being if I had known in 62 what I was, I could have easily and gladly transitioned back then. I was certainly a shoe in for the roll of being a girl anyway. There was no computers then and actually I didn't find out until 10 years ago about transsexualism. I over heard a couple of folk talking about it where I worked. Curiosity got the cat and I went to the library to do me a little research and 2 years later I got me a computer and found much more information on TS'ism then I found this place. Now 8 years later I sits here again transition complete.
All those years without a computer, can you imagine how much a computer would have benefited me back in 62? Bugger huh, to borrow the phrase from a good friend that I met in a sky-fi Internet group from the UK, about, well not certain when, but it was before I started transitioning my user name was Maryjane. What a wonderful guy, his user name was Master. He was a real gallant night in shining armor in the presence of the ladies. At least I discovered there were some gallantry among some of the gentlemen in the UK. I also had a wonderful friend there also, her user name was Princess Ivy. I spent several months with her on MSN helping her through a nasty divorce.
Oh yes the good old days, yes, certainly, got nothing against my child hood growing up. I had only really one good friend, her name was Helen, we ran together like a couple of ragamuffins for five years then never saw her again. Can you imagine what could of happened to me if I would have come out back then? Well it almost happen once when I had my long hair and still wearing unisex clothes. I was hitchhiking home from down town and this car pulled over and opened the door and waved for me t get in. I did and it wasn't a mile down the road when that pig had or tried to get his hands in my pants. I managed to get out of the car when it was still moving and I roiled a couple of times but once I got to my feet I was off like a scared jack rabbit into the wood. Ah to be a kid agin, what am I saying, I'm still a kid, I refuse to grow up. Sorry for the book. Just wanted to show what it was like precomputers and postcomputers.
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on March 02, 2008, 07:22:02 AM
Anyways circumstances mad it so I had to leave and go back home. It wouldn't be until 36 years later before I would discover there was a label that went with this.... disorder for lack of a better word had. Point being if I had known in 62 what I was, I could have easily and gladly transitioned back then. I was certainly a shoe in for the roll of being a girl anyway. There was no computers then and actually I didn't find out until 10 years ago about transsexualism. I over heard a couple of folk talking about it where I worked. Curiosity got the cat and I went to the library to do me a little research and 2 years later I got me a computer and found much more information on TS'ism then I found this place. Now 8 years later I sits here again transition complete.
All those years without a computer, can you imagine how much a computer would have benefited me back in 62? Bugger huh, to borrow the phrase from a good friend that I met in a sky-fi Internet group from the UK, about, well not certain when, but it was before I started transitioning my user name was Maryjane. What a wonderful guy, his user name was Master. He was a real gallant night in shining armor in the presence of the ladies. At least I discovered there were some gallantry among some of the gentlemen in the UK. I also had a wonderful friend there also, her user name was Princess Ivy. I spent several months with her on MSN helping her through a nasty divorce.
Oh yes the good old days, yes, certainly, got nothing against my child hood growing up. I had only really one good friend, her name was Helen, we ran together like a couple of ragamuffins for five years then never saw her again. Can you imagine what could of happened to me if I would have come out back then? Well it almost happen once when I had my long hair and still wearing unisex clothes. I was hitchhiking home from down town and this car pulled over and opened the door and waved for me t get in. I did and it wasn't a mile down the road when that pig had or tried to get his hands in my pants. I managed to get out of the car when it was still moving and I roiled a couple of times but once I got to my feet I was off like a scared jack rabbit into the wood. Ah to be a kid agin, what am I saying, I'm still a kid, I refuse to grow up. Sorry for the book. Just wanted to show what it was like precomputers and postcomputers.
Cindy
You have a lot of similar circumstaces to my own Cindy and your posts are always interesting..
Same thing happened to me in 78 when I was a very young androgenous teenager, I was hitching and a guy who was in the forces picked me up tried to rape me and nearly suceeded.......I hit him while the car was moving and he stopped and I ran for my life..
Thanks for the book Cindy -- it was a good read!
Quote from: DarthKitty on March 02, 2008, 06:34:10 AM
But I guess I'm more looking for alternatives for as to how people are able to get through this in the first place, when in the past they wouldn't have?
Culture definitely is a big player in all this (the web inclusive.) But beyond the web what other examples of major changes have made it more possible today for people to transition than fifteen years ago, that if they were removed more people would instead cope than transition?
-Kit
DK -- Here's some speculation for you. Other than the Web, advanced in treatment (therapy, hormones, surgury); more media images of trans people (mostly negative, but not entirely); a more mobile society (so you can more easily find people without preconceived notions of you, and also move to safer communities in general); and generally broader acceptance of LGBT people (starting, of course, with the L, G, and B) have all made it a lot easier.
For me, the Internet was the most important (if only chronologically), because it's the first place I ever saw positive images of trans people. That did me a lot of good in resolving issues of guilt and shame, of which I had plenty. After that, the next was the general openness, which has allowed me to get support from friends. I don't think I could have gotten nearly as much support think 15 years ago (though I was just a kid then -- what do I know?). I definitely see attitudes among people under 30 as being far more open to transgender identities than among people that are older.
Never trust anyone over 30, right Cindy? ;)
Hi Alyssa M.
But of course, politeness Either drive the Cadillac or take the Ferrari. But hey it seems I can way better understand kids then adults, adults are boring. Old Hippies never die, they just smell that way. ;D
Sorry Cindy, I couldn't help myself. :embarrassed: A dumb attempt at humour, just a silly slogan from the hippie heyday that by random chance applied. (I do seem to know a bunch of people in the age group just about 30 that are just young enough to have grown up not really caring about homosexuals, but having no clue about anything trans.)
Quote from: Alyssa M. on March 02, 2008, 07:50:37 AM
For me, the Internet was the most important (if only chronologically), because it's the first place I ever saw positive images of trans people. That did me a lot of good in resolving issues of guilt and shame, of which I had plenty. After that, the next was the general openness, which has allowed me to get support from friends. I don't think I could have gotten nearly as much support think 15 years ago (though I was just a kid then -- what do I know?). I definitely see attitudes among people under 30 as being far more open to transgender identities than among people that are older.
Never trust anyone over 30, right Cindy? ;)
The first time I saw any positive images of a transsexual was in 1982 when I saw Tula (Caroline) Cossy spread all over the Sun newspaper. The hetro guys at work fancied her despite her origins, so I thought finally here's the role model I've been waiting for...
There were articles and information out there long before the internet but the internet has been a useful tool in providing more information...
Well, I've started moving toward starting...but, I think it would have only been a matter of time without the net anyway. I'm 23, I've been online in some form since I was like 6 and my mom showed me how to log on to Prodigy to play the games and learn how to type. So I can't really relate to a "without the internet" time. Personally I find the very concept of that to be fascinating. Both good information and bad information is just everywhere easily accessible for some societies. And in other societies, it isn't so freely available. I only know one side of it, but now I'm going off on a tangent.
Quote from: Leslie on March 02, 2008, 03:32:50 AM
I picked "yes", but I'm not clear about something. Is there a connection between GID and the internet? Transition and the WWW? If there is, what is it?
For me, the internet showed me a missing piece of the puzzle. I didn't know others' experiences so I had nothing at all to relate to. All I really knew before on a very simplistic level was that I fit in with the girls on the inside, but didn't on the outside, and I didn't fit in with the boys on the inside, but I did on the outside. It took a while, but my mind finally broke from it all, I gave in and admitted to myself that I needed to try to find some help, and I turned to the internet to look for it. I read all I could find, which helped clear up a few things, but it wasn't until I started reading others' stories that I think the realizations actually started to set in. I realized I wasn't entirely crazy, I realized that I had options, and I realized I could choose to start living.
I don't think there's a causal link between GID and the net. But I think the availability of others' experiences, and the information on the "how to" side of things just enables those who may not have gotten help to get it. Would I have realized I could live if not for the net? I don't really know, I could have decided to end my life, or maybe it would have taken me 30 more years of miserable attempts to be male to realize I didn't have to suffer.
i think some of those who view themselves as 'real' transsexuals consider this genderation to be people who merely saw trans on the internet, and thought it would be fun to try....
R >:D
Quote from: cindybc on March 02, 2008, 08:08:06 AM
Hi Alyssa M.
But of course, politeness Either drive the Cadillac or take the Ferrari. But hey it seems I can way better understand kids then adults, adults are boring. Old Hippies never die, they just smell that way. ;D
Well, as a 70+ yo IRCOP who spends a couple of hours in Chat most every day, I hope the kids don't see me as a smelly, aged hippy. LOL Particularly not after my 52 years of military work. ;D :laugh:
I marked NO in the poll. Having suppressed my feelings so deep and for so long, it was the Internet that triggered the approach to my truth. Once Robyn began to bubble to the surface, there was no turning back. Thankfully, I found a good counselor who said, "Robyn, you're transsexual. What are you going to do about it?"
Two years later, I asked the anesthesiologist if I should count backwards from 100. He said, "Don't bother.' The last thing I remember was Emery asking, "Who's going to fix my dinner?" as I was rolled toward the OR doors and Dr. Meltzer.
He's now been my husband for 8 years.
Robyn
The question I have, is:
"Was the internet the only flashlight strong enough to shed light on my problems?"
So I didn't vote. I honestly don't know. I could've spent a lot longer finding out in the outside world, but who knows? Might not have happened, and maybe I'd be either A. Ten Times as Miserable B. Dead or C. Perfectly happy male with weird thoughts.
The reason why I doubt C, is because I had feelings like these before I was even allowed on the internet from what I remember. C is just a jerk that plagues me every day. Finding a forum like this which shows mostly the truth of what's actually going on is a good thing. (Shows the goods and the bads, which are not attractive bads, but necessary ones) I think the only difference would likely be how long it took me to find out more about myself. But I honestly can't say, because predictions rarely work.
Quote from: Rachael on March 02, 2008, 10:51:31 AM
i think some of those who view themselves as 'real' transsexuals consider this genderation to be people who merely saw trans on the internet, and thought it would be fun to try....
R >:D
;D Was that a legit typo, or a pun? (Well, it's pretty funny either way.)
But I swear, when I was seven, I literally thought I was the only gender variant person in the world.
(Okay, I had an email account and Internet access, so it's not technically "pre-Internet" -- but it was pre-Web!)
Quote from: Berliegh on March 02, 2008, 08:45:42 AM
The first time I saw any positive images of a transsexual was in 1982 when I saw Tula (Caroline) Cossy spread all over the Sun newspaper. The hetro guys at work fancied her despite her origins, so I thought finally here's the role model I've been waiting for...
There were articles and information out there long before the internet but the internet has been a useful tool in providing more information...
Yeh, The Sun? erm... not generally ... what I'd call ... positive.
I mean, the first time I can recall seeing "positive" images of transsexuals was on the Phil Donahue show... But there's something about daytime talk shows ... and tabloid newspapers ... that kind of, well, screams "
freak!!!!" Yeah, it was either Donahue or Springer; or else some rather clinical and intimidating-sounding articles in the Encyclopedia Britannica. Things that definitely did
not give me a more positive self-image. Quite the contrary.
My post wasn't meant to offend anyone, or to say that I'm somehow better since I transitioned before the internet, of course, walking in high heels through feet of snow. ;) :D Just telling my story. I used every resource available to me at the time, and the more I read, and met other trans people, the less isolation I felt.
I don't necessarily believe that younger folks have it easier now because of the internet. It is a valuable resource, and certainly makes my life easier now, however anyone transitioning today still has to deal with negative societal prejudice and discrimination. We're all in the same boat, young and old.
Zythyra
Hi Alyssa M. your response was on the dollar hon, nothing wrong with it. I just wish more on here would use a little humor now and then this could be a rock on group. Susan's Transgender Sunshine Girls Quartet or something like that.
Hi Burleigh hon. Transitioning is a serious process that preoccupies most of our thoughts and concentration but yes there are some really neat parts in transitioning. Nothing wrong with a little self effacing humor, then we can slap one another n the shoulder and have good laugh. There are so many silly little things that occur along the way that one can bring to the group to share this little sunshine with others and brighten the day for them some on a otherwise gloomy day. When I first came out as Cindy I had not an idea on how to act, I mostly just fudged it and to my surprise most of the girls at work rallied around me doing what they could giving me pointers and clothes for which I was so very thankful for, well I wasn't really rolling around in dough.
Well through much of my transition during full time I emulated the lady in Harper Valley PTA. and I truly felt as proud to be me. Maybe I lived a charmed life but I have never had any mishaps. I brought my bag of puns and they smiled. Well that will be sufficient for now.
Cindy
Quote from: Zythyra on March 02, 2008, 11:55:57 AM
I don't necessarily believe that younger folks have it easier now because of the internet. It is a valuable resource, and certainly makes my life easier now, however anyone transitioning today still has to deal with negative societal prejudice and discrimination. We're all in the same boat, young and old.
and GID is still the same, whether you transitioned 20 years ago or now. We are all dealing (or have dealt with) the same things regardless of our age.
honestly, i think i would have probably started transition without the internet. Its a great source of information and yeah, its helped me understand more about GID, but in the past there were books, and IMO i don't think how much i knew would have made any difference.
i transitioned because of how i felt, not because of what i'd read.
whether or not i'd have survived transition without the support of the internet - especially places like here, and knowing i wasn't alone - is a completely different question. but that doesn't detract from transition in any way.
jenny
x x
To my way of thinking and before I start by the way I am certainly grateful the Internet was there for my use or I "KNOW!!" I would not have been here groping around in the dark not knowing what this irresistible force was that was edging me and most likely would have pushed me over the precipice. Or I would have taken the gas pipe. If I hadn't of taken that precipice it may have meant a few more years of misery before I would have been driven to find what was ailing me. Well I suppose after reading some material about transsexual was what prompted me to get a computer. I also had the honor to serve and help others on websites such as this one but for some reason I finally made my home on this group. Members are all new but I have found some wonderful intelligent young folks here that I would have to say are more well informed then the folks I knew here from 8 years ago.
Cindy
Yes I would have.
No, if it weren't for the internet, I would be dead.
Quote from: Lisbeth on March 02, 2008, 05:45:54 PM
No, if it weren't for the internet, I would be dead.
I feel the same. In my 30s, I had never heard the term transsexual or transgender. I had never heard of she-males or any of the names some people drop as though they were the most famous people in the world. Before the internet, I only knew I was supposed to be a girl and there was nothing I could do to fix it. I'd already attempted suicide several times. Eventually I would have succeeded or been permanently institutionalized.
With the advent of BBSs and later the internet, I found a place where it was safe to be myself. When I got on the net, I looked for support groups. Surely there had to be others like me. I began finding information, groups, local contacts and finally, the knowledge I really could change myself and my life. It snowballed from there and here I am.
Karen Lyn
Oh yes. I would have.
I did, actually.
Sara
The first place I knew transitioning was possible was shows like Maury, Sally, Jerry Springer, etc, so I knew I wasn't a total wacko. When I got into the internet in 96 I knew this whole "thing" might work. After doing much research, my answer is no. But others have done it without the www before, so I'm sure I would have got to the point of going full steam ahead no matter what.
oh god, jerry springer ->-bleeped-<-s... *barf*
R >:D
Quote from: Alyssa M. on March 02, 2008, 11:14:13 AM
Quote from: Berliegh on March 02, 2008, 08:45:42 AM
The first time I saw any positive images of a transsexual was in 1982 when I saw Tula (Caroline) Cossy spread all over the Sun newspaper. The hetro guys at work fancied her despite her origins, so I thought finally here's the role model I've been waiting for...
There were articles and information out there long before the internet but the internet has been a useful tool in providing more information...
Yeh, The Sun? erm... not generally ... what I'd call ... positive.
I mean, the first time I can recall seeing "positive" images of transsexuals was on the Phil Donahue show... But there's something about daytime talk shows ... and tabloid newspapers ... that kind of, well, screams "freak!!!!" Yeah, it was either Donahue or Springer; or else some rather clinical and intimidating-sounding articles in the Encyclopedia Britannica. Things that definitely did not give me a more positive self-image. Quite the contrary.
Caroline Cossy was cool, looked female and guys fancied her......she was a model, appeared in adverts and had cameo's in films.......and when I read her story it made sense and reminded me of my own. She has done an awful lot for trans issue's so I don't know why you feel the need to knock her..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Cossey
Berliegh --
Please don't misunderstand me. I mean no disrespect toward Caroline Cossey at all -- in fact I didn't actually say a word about her. It's the depiction of transgender people in the media that I have a problem with (e.g, tabloids outing transsexual women living in stealth). And I don't think it's much better today.
I'm glad for you that Cossey's story gave you hope; not me (granted, I was 3). But I never saw anything positive in the media until I'd already seen it online; that is, personal, first-hand stories written with dignity. It's not much better today in the maistream media either. Maybe you saw past the sensationalism.
I would have started yes... But I would have taken a much diffrent rout...
I didnt know you needed a theripist, and I had gleaned enough information from other scources to know what to do <vaugely>
I dobut Id be as happy or healthy as I am now... but Id have ried it altleast...
Quote from: Alyssa M. on March 03, 2008, 04:10:48 AM
Berliegh --
Please don't misunderstand me. I mean no disrespect toward Caroline Cossey at all -- in fact I didn't actually say a word about her. It's the depiction of transgender people in the media that I have a problem with (e.g, tabloids outing transsexual women living in stealth). And I don't think it's much better today.
I'm glad for you that Cossey's story gave you hope; not me (granted, I was 3). But I never saw anything positive in the media until I'd already seen it online; that is, personal, first-hand stories written with dignity. It's not much better today in the maistream media either. Maybe you saw past the sensationalism.
Even though it was in the media the story about Caroline in 1982 was very well presented and it wasn't at all degrading towards her or transsexuals. It wasn't filled with negativity like articles are today. I was older than you were then and I was in my first job since leaving school and read the story in my lunchbreak...
It had a huge impact on me and I still have the cutting.....
When I was a young teen, the only playboy I had was one I stole from my father that had Caroline Cossey in it...
It was a very well written interesting article/interview... Its actualy where I found my first bit of hope and learned that there WAS something I could do about it...... Seriously it was a life saver.... Unfortunatly that coppy went up when my old house was set afire... but still, it did give me hope and gave a name to something I knew nothing about prior...
Lynn proving once more, that only girls actually read the articles... ;)
R >:D
Thanks, Berliegh.
I don't think I even heard about Cossey until much later, except perhaps in passing, and I so just assumed the story was treated like most are today. I guess I was too cynical. I can recall a number of stories in just the last year that were handled very crassly. Perhaps I'm seeing things through the lens of today's junk-news-flooded America. :(
Trans in the media is only interesting if its one of the two classics: pathetic unpassing man ->-bleeped-<-, or evil keniving deciving ->-bleeped-<-... You'll note thier rarely played as anything but those.... I think Cossey was around in a random social window of attitudes.... 70s ftw :P
R >:D
Yeah, that about says it. Rachael knocks another one out of the park.
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 01, 2008, 01:52:30 AM
I honestly had no idea what this was, that there was a name for it, or that there was anyone else in the entire world that had a similar problem. I thought that I was the only one who had ever been like this. Really.
Cindi
I, too, lived a very sheltered childhood and thought that I was the only person in the world who felt like this.
I remember that the first thing I did when I acquired an AOL account in the late 80's was to web search "transsexual." That was when I learned that a) I wasn't alone and b) the
VAST majority of us are not narcissistic freaks.
So, would I have started transitioning if there was no internet? i don't know, and that would have to be my vote...
Chaunte
'Vast majority arnt narcissist freaks'
r u shur?
R >:D
'Vast majority arnt narcissist freaks'
r u shur?
Given that the answer to that is only (and always) an inward thought, how can anyone be sure they are not?
Well, I'm just a pussy cat. Beat you up with a feather. ;D ;D ;D To tell the truth is I don't think all transsexual are narcissistic. Well maybe one or two. Sheesh I must have been living a lllllllllllllllong sheltered life too. Well I was mama's little girl anyway. Ya she kind of spoiled me, the runt of the family and my moms suck. Well what can I say, huh? ;D ;D ;D
Cindy
Anyone who posts stuff on the web is a narcissistic freak ;D
nah, some are just bored, working too late, and have a computer on as part of thier job. But I am a freak, I do love to type.
:P quite true....
Tbh, ive come accross a great deal of narcisism in the trans community... but then, no more than the rest of society ;)
EVERYONE loves themeslves....
R >:D
and lots of people are bored and on the clock too.
wut?
R >:D
Well freak, weird, odd, strange, queer, sissy, witch, squirrel bait, cuckoo and more but I was never called narcissistic before though. But I consider myself a bit witchy.
Cindy
Here the growing acceptance ( 10 years again it was here very dark, little info) is mostly because internet has brought the knowledge. And in the recent years even the parliament made a law regarding legal sex change.
In case the law works it is one of the most progressives currently existing.
Looks like Cindy and I have something else in common. I had heard of Christine and had seen a few pictures of her. She was the first transsexsual I'd ever heard about. I also read the book by Canary sometime in the early seventies while in the military. A fascinating story. I started dressing in my mothers clothes when I was around five, so I guess about '58. Unlike Cindy, I've yet to transition and have a bit more to travel. I've had therapy and was supposed to move on to rlt. My marriage vows and the hurt I was causing were too much. I've started that journey again. Anyway, there was no Internet when I learned of this in the very early 70's. I was, at that time, writing to Johns Hopkins and Stanford for information. I am angry at myself for not transitioning, nobody to blame but myself for that. Actually, when I was pre teen, I thought I was just a gay boy that felt best in female clothing, hanging out with my aunts and sisters. No, I didn't hang out with them while wearing female clothing, that was done in private. Geez, I'm rambling...
Nnnnnneeecrrro post!
I'm not too sure if I would've started to transition without the internet. The internet is the place I can look up things most people in my town don't discuss. In the town I live in I doubt I would've found out about it until later. I'm grateful for the internet :)
I'm another who transitioned before the internet was a resource. Got my info from the news and library books. Got into a support group by placing an ad in the paper. Luckily, I got a response, and the group was only a couple of hours away. So I moved there and transitioned. Others were flying there from thousands of miles away every month. It was great luck.
Quote from: Starbuck on January 21, 2009, 01:08:42 PM
Nnnnnneeecrrro post!
Lots of those lately. The dark side of the "related topics" feature. Or maybe the light side.
Except for a couple of rare cases, "transition" and SRS were a virtual impossibility in the 1960's but I had no choice. Like being in a burning highrise, you either die in the flames or jump and pray for the best, so I slashed a trail where there was none and came out into the sunshine in 1974.
Quote from: Northern Jane on January 22, 2009, 04:56:28 AM
Except for a couple of rare cases, "transition" and SRS were a virtual impossibility in the 1960's but I had no choice. Like being in a burning highrise, you either die in the flames or jump and pray for the best, so I slashed a trail where there was none and came out into the sunshine in 1974.
Thankyou again for your story Northern Jane....
Kiera: arguing with a quit member is like arguing with yourself : it will get you sectioned ;)
Tbh, the title and topic are entirely clear to me...
are you better or worse off how? last time i checked, there was no 'cooler' way to transition, no better or worse method. Transitioning pre internet, just means youre old ;)
Quote from: Starbuck on January 22, 2009, 07:20:06 AMTransitioning pre internet, just means youre old ;)
WHACK!Watch your mouth young lady!
ey! well you're like over 30... you're ancient!
If thats the case... then i knew i was a girl way before the internet.. (which we only got when i was 16 or so, I dont see how being before a media revolution makes one a 'more serious ->-bleeped-<-' that some seem to aspire to here... Who cares, we all transitioned, nobody is the winner!
As for kit: um, she did ;) (W still chat)
Quote from: Starbuck on January 22, 2009, 08:41:51 AM
ey! well you're like over 30... you're ancient!
Watch your mouth, young lady!
Alas, I have lost the trust of 1960's Berkeley radicals. :(
Quote from: Starbuck on January 22, 2009, 08:41:51 AM
ey! well you're like over 30... you're ancient!
OK, let's all of us
Geezer Girls get her! ;) :laugh:
Z
hey dont hate on me because im young and popular ;)
Ill probably ended transitioned much much later. After getting married (yuck) or some other stupid thing.
Well in my mind I always thought of myself as male mentally speaking without actually thinking I was a male if that makes any sense.
I actually came out as the result of a decade long process of questioning but the catalyst for me to come out and come to terms with my feelings of unhappiness with my identity was an article I read in a magazine about FTM transexuals. I can't tel you the relief I felt at finally feeling like out there someone else was exactly like me, had feelings like me, that little article summed it all up in a nutshell.
So I have to say yes I would be transitioning without the internet but would I be transitioning without information which basically what the web is...I don't know, I think maybe, eventually but it would have taken me a long time to figure it all out and even longer to work out what to do about it.
Thing is getting the infomation out there so more people can have the same realisation I did is so crucial, when people have access to information and education it is literally like turning on a lightbulb in a darkened room, you illuminate things you maybe sensed were there but couldn't see clearlyto describe.
This is why indeed in this new digital age where we all have free access to information you thankfully will see more and more TS and TG people transitioning and/or discovering their true place on the gender spectrum.
The one time I will ever use this word but Amen to that.
Hi Tink, Wing Walker says if your 64 years old she's the new pope.
Hi Syarbuck, Yep, sure appears that way, another one of those Nero threads, an old one, but hey, it appears like it was more fun way back last year then it is this year. :embarrassed: Did someone hit the smite button on the smileys?
It was finding the Canary Conn's book in the library that brought me to the awakening of who I was, I then got my first online computer and found Susan's chat and one year later I began transitioning. That was 9 years ago.
Cindy
Pope Paula the 1st. ;D Hey I know the science stuff, I don't do the equations, I leave the calculation of parsecs for you to work with then we can start building our first interdimensional think drive star ship.
Cindy
It gaves same result in different numbers I think.
I took my attempt to solve it away that it is not telling something about secret :)!
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 01, 2008, 01:52:30 AM
I had no internet when I went through this in the mid to late eighties.
I honestly had no idea what this was, that there was a name for it, or that there was anyone else in the entire world that had a similar problem. I thought that I was the only one who had ever been like this. Really.
I grew up in the Mormon faith and led a fairly sheltered life. I didn't even know about gay people. Really.
I had already started testing the waters for my own identity by crossdressing and going out in public whenever I could when I stumbled across this thing called Compuserve. I suppose it was something like the predecessor to what we now call the internet. You could call up and connect for six bucks an hour to H&R Block's mainframe and "chat" with poeple. There were a handful of us that managed to find each other in that world. I did manage to meet many of them in my travels as I flew to many cities in my profession.
So.... yes, I would have continued without that virtual connection to a handful of others. But I am so glad that I found them in this big world. It made an impossible thing much more bearable to know that others had similar feelings.
.... and along the way I did find out about gay people.
Cindi
I met this veteran who was divorcing his wife back in the 80's and he stayed with me at my sisters hair salon in Pennsylvania after he and i got out of the coatesville veterans hospital, because we didn't have a place to stay. He gave me a business card which had compuserve on it. He was into computers then which he learned from the military. i know later he was a major starter of compuserve if only i could remember his name.. He moved to the virgin islands the last i heard from him.
I had started transitioning by taking hormones to stop my thinning hair when i was in Phila pa and then i got online to learn more when someone mentioned the transgender nation.. I had never heard that word before but i quickly learned a lot at the GAZEBO ON AOL There i met andrea james and a few others on the transgender community forum
Ok, I christen thee our new interdimensional think drive star-ship Saint Tink.
Cindy
hi... did not know what a computer was . let alone use one . or pit it another way i was on a trip . not knowing were it was going i knew total nothing . on my own as far as i knew . the words & terms we use had no meaning at all
i just knew i was different . 11 years ago i told jos i was a women . hell started on that day .. along the way i have learnd lots . jos & i still live to gether as just two women . i am andro . so one of the things i learned was i was going to live the rest of my life as a women who is just me .
20 months ago we got a computer 6 months of total frustrating . trying to learn how to work this damm thing . am i any better now no not really . yet i have got to a place where i think it works a little for me . i am on forums around the world now & with lots of friends . i dont really know what i am doing 1 / 2 the time the other 1 / 2 not much better . any way thats the way it is for me . so the computer & all the things that go with it did not help .
i was to far along the way to living as a women by then . for the younger ones its great ..11 years ago info was not there for me . well i did not know of any then . nor would i have known where to go for it the terms or what ever ... let alone Dr.s or who ever . so i had to pull up all that was in me to know what to do . & i did . then later i did get info & find people who would & could help . any way thats the way it was ...
...noeleena...
I think I would have been to afraid and would have remained a closet CD only going public on Halloween. I'm really glad for the resources and support that is now available to me :icon_yes: Especially the friends I've met