Good afternoon guys and dolls and everyone in between.
It's no secret that I'm terrified of girls.
I was wondering if anyone else has the same issues concerning birth sex peers. My timidity stems from childhood ostracization and abuse by girls. I'm working to remedy the situation though.
So do any of you peeps have the same thing - whether you're TS, Androgynee, or anything else TG under the sun?
I kind of have a theory that TS peeps have more issues with the opposite gender (their birth sex) than do cisgender peeps. For many reasons.
Your thoughts?
Girls tend to hate me unless I work really hard to make them love me. I've always been the outsider. Girls use to whisper in the locker room that I was a dyke, even though I obviously liked boys.
So, yes, I have huge issues with them and, unfortunately, don't much like them because of it.
Indeed. Probably these stem from the gender conformity that peers press upon us when we are children or adolescents. No trans person is free from a certain degree of dread towards their birth sex. For a TS that stuff usually heals up with transitioning fulltime, in my own experience.
I guess I would have to say I get on with guys fine, in the sense that I am no threat to them, and I think some don't mind that! They can actually relax around me without doing the oneupmanship thing!
Of course at the other end of the scale, homophobes and transphobes will just want to smack my head in!!! ::)
Intelligence goes a long way, and if a guy has got past the caveman stage, they'll be fine with me, and me with them. ;D
As my appearance is quite androgynous, I am quite feminine but not afraid of my masculine side either, they think I am quite a conundrum! I find most guys are kind and courteous, and are not out for trouble. I know I am a genderbender, and I am treated accordingly, with a sense of humour and sensitivity! \
Of course, I plan to change that as soon as my finances (and with the grace of God) allow me to do so, and I will be seen only as a woman! :)
I am very mistrusting and suspicious of men. When they are loud, muscular, or domineering I have really bad anxiety. I don't know why, but men pretty much terrify frighten me (excuse the hyperbole), even though I'd love to be in a relationship with a man right now.
I've met plenty of men who are wonderful and sweet, and I know not all men are like that. But I do have some serious problems around guys. I tend to only talk to and associate with men who have been introduced to me by someone, because then I know they're safe.
Yes, I'm not certain where all of it comes from, but I am certain there are three main currents for it. Of course, you already know that, my dear, since you read my last blog entry. :)
BTW, thanks Nero for this thread. It led to that blog entry, started the process of my getting there.
Hugs,
Nikki
I only feel discomfort if there is some sort of sexual attraction deal going on. That leads to the possibility of rejection, and that is not nice to face. But I've always been just at home being one of the boys, as well as one of the girls. Different settings, different rules, different score cards - but if you know that going in, you will be fine either way.
That being said, I know many (or at least several) women who not having any sort of GID, or sexual issues, just like 'being one of the boys" and do well at it. Ditto for some guys.
I don't think its a GID thang.
Yep. Scared to death of men, mainly because I know what testosterone turns them into. Granted, not all guys are hulking, bombastic, domineering, sex-crazed, ego-driven buggers, but sadly guys who actually know what a guy should be - strong yet gentle, confident in and of himself, brave but modest - those are not so easy to find.
i have no peers. ( :))
Quote from: Pica Pica on March 08, 2008, 09:02:30 PM
i have no peers. ( :))
Damn - between that and staring in the back of spoons - ego much?
Quote from: Vivian on March 07, 2008, 07:55:41 PM
I am very mistrusting and suspicious of men. When they are loud, muscular, or domineering I have really bad anxiety. I don't know why, but men pretty much terrify frighten me (excuse the hyperbole), even though I'd love to be in a relationship with a man right now.
I've met plenty of men who are wonderful and sweet, and I know not all men are like that. But I do have some serious problems around guys. I tend to only talk to and associate with men who have been introduced to me by someone, because then I know they're safe.
I've had unpleasant experiences with men since I've transitioned. I know I can't judge all men based on my limited experience but it puts me on guard as to there intentions. I think it's the general insensitivity of many men that bothers me. Many don't hesitate to tell what ever lie is necessary to get me in the sack. Most of my male friends are gay so sex isn't an issue. I've been treated well by natal women and I'm finding myself more and more attracted to lesbians. I need to trust my partner in a relationship and I have an easier time doing that with other women.
God, yes. As a kid and teen I was mocked relentlessly by boys, but more or less accepted among girls. I have never been comfortable around males, and have always viewed them as strangely "Other." I just don't "get" them.
Lia
Quote from: Nero on March 08, 2008, 09:19:25 PM
Quote from: Pica Pica on March 08, 2008, 09:02:30 PM
i have no peers. ( :))
Damn - between that and staring in the back of spoons - ego much?
or just compensating?
I have no mistrust of men. I have several male friends and none of them have a problem with me. Of course I acted relatively normal as far as having to be one of the boys growing up. When you grow up on a farm, you tend to enjoy playing outside and being generally rough and tumble. But anyway enough of my life story, I have no problem with males.
Quote from: Nero on March 07, 2008, 03:33:24 PM
I was wondering if anyone else has the same issues concerning birth sex peers. My timidity stems from childhood ostracization and abuse by girls. I'm working to remedy the situation though.
I was ostracized by boys for the very good reason that we shared almost no common interests. I could care less about baseball and other team sports, GIJoes, violent cartoon shows, fighting/wrestling, and generally running around and acting like a boy. At times I feigned interest in an attempt to "belong" but it just didn't work.
I still don't like playing with the boys: I've heard many women complain about the attitude men have in climbing and other outdoor recreation, and I pretty much share those (way too goal-oriented, not so interested in enjoying the views, overly competitive, always hiking about 1/4 mile ahead, etc.). Well okay, I haven't been hit on by a male climbing partner ... :-\
So I have male friends, even good ones, but I just don't identify with them all that much ... I'm not sure what you mean to remedy ...
Quote from: Nero on March 07, 2008, 03:33:24 PM
Good afternoon guys and dolls and everyone in between.
It's no secret that I'm terrified of girls.
I was wondering if anyone else has the same issues concerning birth sex peers. My timidity stems from childhood ostracization and abuse by girls. I'm working to remedy the situation though.
So do any of you peeps have the same thing - whether you're TS, Androgynee, or anything else TG under the sun?
I kind of have a theory that TS peeps have more issues with the opposite gender (their birth sex) than do cisgender peeps. For many reasons.
Your thoughts?
I've never had a "gender fear" of anyone. When I was a "tween" I was a bit timid around girls but after I started high school I had none, just the usual stupidity a teen has.
Wing Walker
I have no problem with guys....and no problem with girls......but sometimes I feel uncomfortable in the company of some Transsexuals who I identify less with than the girls or the guys...
Quote from: Alyssa M. on March 08, 2008, 10:56:07 PM
Quote from: Nero on March 07, 2008, 03:33:24 PM
I was wondering if anyone else has the same issues concerning birth sex peers. My timidity stems from childhood ostracization and abuse by girls. I'm working to remedy the situation though.
I was ostracized by boys for the very good reason that we shared almost no common interests. I could care less about baseball and other team sports, GIJoes, violent cartoon shows, fighting/wrestling, and generally running around and acting like a boy. At times I feigned interest in an attempt to "belong" but it just didn't work.
I still don't like playing with the boys: I've heard many women complain about the attitude men have in climbing and other outdoor recreation, and I pretty much share those (way too goal-oriented, not so interested in enjoying the views, overly competitive, always hiking about 1/4 mile ahead, etc.). Well okay, I haven't been hit on by a male climbing partner ... :-\
So I have male friends, even good ones, but I just don't identify with them all that much ... I'm not sure what you mean to remedy ...
Pretty much sums how I feel myself.
I'm slightly more wary around guys than girls, but it's probably not really noticeable. Even though mostly guys have been the ones giving me trouble during school years (all of it), I don't have fear or such associated with guys. I just don't feel we have similar interests often, except maybe chess.
[rant] Boys and I never got along during my chidhood years. They used to hate me and in a way I did too. As I grew older, my situation became worse. Geez, here I was sexually attracted to them, and they still hated me. What a joke, huh? [/rant]
Anyway, the only time when I had problems was when I was beginning to transition. My appearance had become quite androgynous during the first months on HRT, and men didn't know if they were dealing with a woman or a guy. As a result, they were very rude and called me names.
Nowadays it is quite different. I get along pretty well with the guys. They find me attractive ::)! LOL it is amazing how life works sometimes. These could have been the same men that at one point were making fun of me/my appearance and now here they are "drooling" so to speak. I guess you could say that I had the last laugh... :icon_evil_laugh:
tink :icon_chick:
Memory: In elementary school I was always on the girls team in "boys chase girls" (That was the name of the game).
I didn't feel like I was part of the boys team, but I knew I didn't "belong" on the girls, so I was their "defender". Ha! Now I'd love to have a knight in shining armor.
I'm actually more timid and uncomfortable around men (more as a gender, rather then sex though, but I admit the timidness is pretty much concentrated to cisgenered [or at least I assume cisgendered] men.)
I'm not sure why :(
Nero had asked, "I was wondering if anyone else has the same issues concerning birth sex peers."
I'd always found bio females easier to relate to than bio males. To this day, I'm wary of other males. Perhaps it's my imagination, but there frequently seems to be some kind of dominance games in play. I try to be mindful of my posture. I don't want to stand too tall, too proud as I don't want to seem like I'm issuing a challenge. This might be based on how my father taught me to shake hands. He explained that shaking hands with a man was a challenge, and that the firmer the grip meant I'd be taken more seriously.
Tink had said, "Geez, here I was sexually attracted to them, and they still hated me. What a joke, huh?"
I'd encountered the same response from some of the girls to whom I'd been sexually attracted.
Yeah, me too.
A little nervous.
But only around guys I don't know.
I get over it quick.
But some guys..
Sara
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on March 10, 2008, 10:31:48 AM
He explained that shaking hands with a man was a challenge, and that the firmer the grip meant I'd be taken more seriously.
Hey, this saves me from making a thread.
I, too, had the importance of the handshake instilled in me by my mother. I'm in the south, and a bone-crushing handshake is all you get from a proper older man. I always try to give the firmest handshake I can, but I'm a) left handed b) weak, so it doesn't work so well. Never let on that they're mangling you, of course.
Lately, though, customers and people I've met socially have been giving me girls' handshakes. Some of the time it's because they think I'm a girl, a lot of the other times I assume there's some sort of insult in there. It's just happening enough for me to notice.
Until I was 19 or so I was incredibly uncomfortable being around men. Being alone in a hallway with one while waiting for class at 18? Really scary. I'm still quite a bit leery around tough looking or low class men though. I blame that mostly on how much fearmongering my mother gave me about men, though. Even as a child I got endless lectures on how basically all every man wants to do is rape everything smaller than him, me included.
I think it wasn't until around my last birthday (22) that I stopped consciously thinking that when I was the 'guy' in the 'two people passing in a hall/street/whatever' scenario, that the woman didn't think I was a crazy rapist about to attack her.
thanks mom :V
i dunno, i love being around boys... i mean, eye candy! please!
Im a heterosexual girl, i like boys, and tbh i have no discomfort from the fact that i used to look like one...
If anything, i like hanging around boys more, possibly because im a raging tomboy, and its nice scenery ^_^
i do still have my loyalties :P Ladys before louts ^_^
R >:D
Never had a problem w/the dudes. I'm one of them & they know that. I like girls to :laugh: but some didnt like me when they found out I was trans. Thats cool though. for every person that dont like me, there are 100 that do :laugh: :icon_dance:
Quote from: Tink on March 09, 2008, 04:42:19 PM
These could have been the same men that at one point were making fun of me/my appearance and now here they are "drooling" so to speak. I guess you could say that I had the last laugh... :icon_evil_laugh:
tink :icon_chick:
a dude gotta be out of his mind not to dool when he see u ;) :) :)
Quote from: Tink on March 09, 2008, 04:42:19 PM
These could have been the same men that at one point were making fun of me/my appearance and now here they are "drooling" so to speak. I guess you could say that I had the last laugh... :icon_evil_laugh:
tink :icon_chick:
I had exactly that happen when I was in early transition. There were these guys that lived across the street who went from sneering/name calling, to impressed silence, to them and their friends whistling approvingly when I went by. Sometimes revenge is sweet ;D
Quote from: soldierjane on March 12, 2008, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Tink on March 09, 2008, 04:42:19 PM
These could have been the same men that at one point were making fun of me/my appearance and now here they are "drooling" so to speak. I guess you could say that I had the last laugh... :icon_evil_laugh:
tink :icon_chick:
I had exactly that happen when I was in early transition. There were these guys that lived across the street who went from sneering/name calling, to impressed silence, to them and their friends whistling approvingly when I went by. Sometimes revenge is sweet ;D
Petty, but oh so plesaing.
I would love to run into some of the idiots I went to school with ... a year from now, when I'm a bit prettier. Mind you, abouth 75% of my senior year turned out to be gay, and probably with one or two other trans people in there too. (Hell if I know - something in the water maybe?) So I suppose it wouldn't be all that much of a victory.
Quote from: Tink on March 09, 2008, 04:42:19 PM
These could have been the same men that at one point were making fun of me/my appearance and now here they are "drooling" so to speak. I guess you could say that I had the last laugh... :icon_evil_laugh:
tink :icon_chick:
Welcome to my plans for my highschool reunion in 6 years.....
Those b***ards made my life hell.... now ill make thier spouses hate them, and them dool... THEN tell them, with a certain middle finger held high....
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on March 12, 2008, 08:53:07 AM
Welcome to my plans for my highschool reunion in 6 years.....
Those b***ards made my life hell.... now ill make thier spouses hate them, and them dool... THEN tell them, with a certain middle finger held high....
R >:D
Funny, I have that exact same dream, though I doubt that anybody from my "couldn't care less" year will bother organising one ... Petty, but oh so very pleasing. :icon_evil_laugh:
thats the thing... they will care.... i was thier fav punchbag. although ill need to get a guy to go with to pretend to be me... i doubt a girl at a boys school reunion will go down too well :P
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on March 12, 2008, 09:59:25 AM
thats the thing... they will care.... i was thier fav punchbag. although ill need to get a guy to go with to pretend to be me... i doubt a girl at a boys school reunion will go down too well :P
R >:D
Misunderstanding - they cared very much about bullying me and the other unfortunates who didn't fit in, but I mean as in, too un-"bovvered" to go to the trouble of actually organising a reunion. (Catherine Tate took lessons from my generation) Maybe I should step in and show some school spirit! :P
I hope and I wish for you that in six years you will no longer care. Going back and trying to make people regret what they did in the past tends not to work out as well in reality as it does in dreamland. In order for that to work they must have used that time to become more enlightened - which is doubtful. People tend not to change as much as they just become 'more so.' The cool people in HS are still cool, the jerks are still jerks, the smart ones stayed smart and the idiots are still pretty dumb. At least that tends to be true for my highschool and others I've observed.
The best course is to, as they say in New York - FUGETABOUTIT.
Besides, I found reunions to be about the most boring thing I've ever done. Thank god they had a bar.
The only reason im doing it is to get some lols out of transition.... for me, not them, i want amusement and atleast one 'har most changed award am go to meeeeee'
R >:D
Sadly I have no higher noble purpose for wanting to attend ... I'm just petty and immature. Which is as it should be, I think. I was always the serious, sad, angsty one at school who listened to way too much Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Live. I'm making up for lost time now! ;D
We Love you Kurt!
for all the crap ive experienced, and all the cliche trans fiction esque moments ive experienced, i want this one so badly just for the lols and possible story material :P
Its just one of those things... i vanished from even the few friends i had in school, and i want them to meet the person they were actually friends with, and prove to the bullys that im not the looser freak they picked on daily.... Rachael doesnt back down to bullys, when i playacted a guy, i had no confidence, and they won, its time to prove that im not weak.
and have a huge laugh and an ugly betty moment :D
R >:D
Meh, I cant really get along with boys/men.....when I was younger I had a few male friends, just a few, but they were a little nerdy like I was...but things evolved for me and my theatrical/drama side took over
I saw the boys I was friends with less and less by the year
It changed gradually I think
My entire circle of male friends at school all turned out to be gay (And I suspect one other trans-person, though I haven't had contact with Gavin in years) Additionally, I had two almost-friend straight friends: The one became a Buddhist monk, and the other one took vows as a Hare Krishna right out of highschool, and recently began an intentional community up in the mountains of Kwazulu Natal. Go figure! ::)
Quote from: Nero on March 07, 2008, 03:33:24 PMIt's no secret that I'm terrified of girls.
I was wondering if anyone else has the same issues concerning birth sex peers. My timidity stems from childhood ostracization and abuse by girls. I'm working to remedy the situation though.
Everything you said there is profoundly true of me, if you exchange the word "boys" for "girls." Especially since some older boys repeatedly
raped me. I don't know if I will ever develop the ability to feel comfortable around men in general.
There are a number of individual men who have shown that they are ones I can feel comfortable with, and some I even love. That includes you, Nero. But I have never been able to get over my deep discomfort with males in the aggregate. If I go somewhere alone and see a bunch of men gathered, I keep my distance or seek out the company of women.
Quote from: Hypatia on March 16, 2008, 01:17:48 AM
If I go somewhere alone and see a bunch of men gathered, I keep my distance or seek out the company of women.
Same. I find myself crossing the street and going past on the opposite side just to avoid them. As you say, individual men do on occasion prove to be different, though even with them I'm never truly at ease. The only men I can really say I'm at ease with are my dad and my brother, and my best friend from school, and he's gay, so my effeminate self is safe. I find I'm even uncomfortable around male cousins and uncles. Which is sad really. (though there are some on the conservative side EVERYBODY should be scared of, methinks)
i think thats going a little far, but each to thier own.
i dont paticularly care, groups of people are groups of people...
people are arseh*les, not genders
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on March 20, 2008, 12:35:09 PM
i think thats going a little far, but each to thier own.
i dont paticularly care, groups of people are groups of people...
people are arseh*les, not genders
R >:D
Yeah well. I never said I was anything even approaching rational ... and that was before HRT! ::)
Seriously though, I think it's probably some kind of projection of my own revultion at my male years and how I felt under the effects of testosterone. But understanding these things in the brain is not the same as accepting them in the heart.
It's like Nero always reminds us, a man is afraid a woman will laugh at him... a woman is afraid a man will kill her.
Quote from: Hypatia on March 20, 2008, 11:02:34 PM
It's like Nero always reminds us, a man is afraid a woman will laugh at him... a woman is afraid a man will kill her.
too true. dates straight back to the caveman era.
thing is, i love hanging around boys... on the field class i was on for the last week, i had most fun playing games with the boys, chatting to them, drinking with them, oh sure, i prioritised my time with the ladies... but cant beat socialising with the oposite sex :)
R >:D
Quote from: Rachael on March 21, 2008, 06:46:41 AM
thing is, i love hanging around boys... on the field class i was on for the last week, i had most fun playing games with the boys, chatting to them, drinking with them, oh sure, i prioritised my time with the ladies... but cant beat socialising with the oposite sex :)
R >:D
I think there are other priorities at work here ... Many pretty boys in your class, hmmmmm? >:D
*dribbles*
yep
R >:D