Recently Melissa posted the following statement I have excerpted from another post. I didn't want to skew too far off-topic so I thought I would just repost this here.
Melissa said:
"...for the future, although I did have longer hair and wore a bra to the interview. I have a feeling..."
And this is not the first time I have heard people mentioning strapped undergarments in what I presume was male presentation.
My question is thus, have you worn a bra, or other strapped undergarment such as a camisole, under a male shirt? And if so, how do people not notice? Or do you just not care?
Maybe a strange question, but I've often wondered this. I'll often wear a camisole under sweaters or other long sleeved garments when it is chilly out. Note that a silky camisole under a baggy sweater is so comfy. But I've often wondered about what people must think about the visible strap lines that must be obvious sometimes, or even more so if I hug someone. This of course only being a concern if I'm out and about in a place or mode where I would rather not be "discovered."
Just curious. I suppose I am also curious about other undergarments worn with male clothes or even if you mix some female outerwear that is sort of passable as male attire and if you wonder if anybody knows that shirt or those jeans or those shoes aren't really for men?
Sorry this is such a broad topic and a little discombobulated, but the more I think about it the more curious I am.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I currently work in male mode. I began HRT a little over 4 months ago, and I have gotten to the point where a bra is necessary with some clothing to hide my development. I generally wear a bulky loose-fitting shirt with a spandex tee underneath, but as the weather here is starting to get downright hot, that's not really practical all the time. A bra at least keeps the nipples from being quite so obvious when wearing a lighter-weight top. I don't think the straps have been noticed yet; at least, no one has said anything.
I lost over 40 pounds at the beginning of last summer, and I simply could not bring myself to spend money on new mens' clothing. My compromise has been to purchase womens' jeans, slacks, tops and shoes that I feel I can get away with at work. With the exception of two shirts that are sufficiently bulky (see above!), I don't think I've worn anything made for men in six months.
I have to admit that it's not entirely due to not wanting to spend money on mens' things; it is a depressing thing to have to get into male drag every weekday morning, and the fact that everything I'm wearing was made for women (despite appearances) makes it a bit easier to deal with. I wrote about this a little in my blog 2 weeks ago; pushing the limits with long nails, pierced ears, long hair and so on helps me to feel that I'm making progress. I don't know, maybe part of me wants to be 'caught' so that I will be forced to come out.
I've even joked with some friends that if I transition at work slowly enough, maybe no one will notice!
Annie
Bras don't tend to show through most men's polo shirts. If you're not sure, try it on and look in the mirror or have someone else examine you that you trust. So far nobody's said anything. I figure if they're going to find out eventually, it's not a big deal if one or 2 people figure it out as long as they can't do anything bad to you.
Another option is the wear a bra with wide straps at the top and it will look like a tanktop. I don't do this personally, but it might be a good option for somebody. Also, make sure the cup is pretty smooth or it will show through the front. Other than my chest sticking out a little further than the typical male, it looks pretty good. Worst case, they notice the breasts, you can tell them you have gynecomastia.
The thing is, even if people notice, most have enough tact or are unsure enough not to say anything.
Melissa
Thank you for responding Melissa as you were the person I most had in mind when I first made the post.
In the previous post in question someone asked if you had told them about being transexual and you said, no, that would be something for later. But in my mind, wearing a bra to an interview is tantamount to telling them that you are transgendered, or a crossdresser or something. In my experience, just looking around, you can see a woman's bra under all but the baggiest and thickest of clothes. And in my personal experience, having looked in the mirror while wearing a particular camisole that has more bra type straps than spaghetti type, I could even see traces of the straps through a sweater if it is pulled even remotely tight.
So that really was the motivation behind the question. Maybe it is because I am more keen to these types of things that I would notice the fact that some guy applying for a job where I worked was wearing a bra. Or that I notice such things at all. You may be right that most people wouldn't even notice, but it at least seems like women would notice.
Anyhow, thanks again for posting. It was so hard when I started the thread, because I just wanted to ask you a simple question, but then my mind started wandering thinking about what you other girls wear. Sometimes it is frustrating to not be able to just meet you all for coffee and chit chat over some espresso or tea.
*wink* You would find me exceedingly boring in that context as I rarely speak unless spoken to. :P
Anyway regarding straps and things...
Something to keep in mind regarding the "is what I am wearing apparent" thought is that something like a bra or other tight fitting garment will distort the shape of the body, which is in itself a noticeable tail-tail sign, at least I think so anyway. (=
I found myself in a similar situation two years ago before I started transition. I took the precautions mentioned previously, but as Kimberly has pointed out, nothing is for certain when it comes to hiding things. I thought I was doing reasonably well at work as I didn't get any form of feed back that the other employees had noticed anything. But you know what, they did. When I came out at work many came forward to congratulate and other their support and at the same time some commented that they were wondering why I wore bras. So despite my attempts, well, just be careful.
Steph
Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on April 24, 2006, 05:52:59 AM
I found myself in a similar situation two years ago before I started transition. I took the precautions mentioned previously, but as Kimberly has pointed out, nothing is for certain when it comes to hiding things. I thought I was doing reasonably well at work as I didn't get any form of feed back that the other employees had noticed anything. But you know what, they did. When I came out at work many came forward to congratulate and other their support and at the same time some commented that they were wondering why I wore bras. So despite my attempts, well, just be careful.
Steph
That's exactly the point. If you can get away with being only sort of careful, then coming out tends to be more successful. I think the better you hide your femaleness, the harder it will be to come out. If I get hired for my job that I interviewed while wearing a bra (and maybe they even noticed) and I wear bras everyday and nobody says anything, what does that tell you about how people in the company will probably react when I really do come out to them. Probably not much surprise as in your case Stephanie.
However, if you do not want anybody to notice and you never plan on coming out at work, then don't wear them there.
Melissa
I think that wearing bra under shirts and displaying other signs of femininity indicates how comfortable one is becoming with their feminine identity. When I am not going to work I wear a bra all of the time. I may not seem shy but I really am. I have taken a lot of emotional crap all of my life both on the job and from my birth family. I tend to dress to avoid taking more crap. That what makes it hard to wear skirts outside of my home. Mostly the only exclusively make clothes I own are my work uniform. Mens short sleeve shirts, ties and dress jeans. Not anything that a butch female might not wear. Plain blues and greens and browns in colors. Over time I have come to care less if something effinimine shows as long as it does not draw lots of negative attension. Most of the time I am content to live as the Men and Women in Black unnoticed. This is a large part of the problem I have being a flashier female.
Although I am not in the process of actively transitioning, I am not on HRT, and I have little to fill it, I have worn a bra under my male attire on many occasions, even to work. I generally wear it under a loose fitting shirt that is very dark or opaque. To my knowledge, no one has ever detected it.
I do it mostly for an emotionally lift when it gets harder for me to cope with my TS needs. It's kind of like keeping my legs shaved and my toenails polished. No one else knows, but I feel like I am expressing a little of my feminine side, even if hidden to others. When I think about it, I know it's kind of silly and I feel foolish about it, but it does make me feel better about myself, so I do it. It helps me get through another day.
Steph
If you are already used to wearing a bra and then decide to transition, then more power to you. It will probably be less uncomfortable for you as it is for me. For me, wearing a bra takes some getting used to, but it is a necessary evil for women. It comes with the breasts. At this point, it not only hides the nipples, but now offers a little support for the breasts.
Melissa
Other than to work where there's always somebody who cares about something, Complains to the supervisor about it and sends a note to my boss saying for me not to come back. I work for a temp agency. If I get too many places saying they don't want me, then the temp agency doesn't want me. I wear a bra and what ever underneath a tee shirt which either males or females may wear. I admit I am more than a thousand miles from where I grew up and have no ties to community or culture I live in. It is a big city where small things like the appearance of something which may or not be a bra strap is not mentioned to someone who is a stranger or just a casual acquaintance. Most people have some quark that they hope others will ignore and not bring up. There seems to be some problem with the usage of sir and mam because I have been called sir or mam by the same person within five minutes.
The question is where do you live? How many relatives live in your area? How well are you known? And does any one really care rather you wear a bra or not?
Once the breasts got to a certain point a sports bra was worn to keep them pressed flat (well, flatter anyway) and then once they were a bit bigger I had to wear something for support or be sore. So yes, I have worn a bra while in boy mode.
I started to wear a cami uner my baggy ultra male shirt (to my big shame) and at first I was concerned about the straps showing up. But, I needed the support since my breast and nipples were really sensitive and sore at that time.
With time I wanted to try a bra and I found out I really needed one and it was a great thing to have. Now I could protect my boobs and byebye sore nipples.
And during that time I started to wear the bra under my normal clothes and I ont know if the noticed it or not.
I didnt care at all, for me was like a small step in my transition and going back is a big no-no.
So, I had to wear them cuz I needed them.
Hi
You Could almost call this thread to wear or not to wear bra. l agree 100 % with Dersi
Quote from: Dersi on May 01, 2006, 08:48:35 PM
.....With time I wanted to try a bra and I found out I really needed one and it was a great thing to have. Now I could protect my boobs and byebye sore nipples.
And during that time I started to wear the bra under my normal clothes and I ont know if the noticed it or not.
I didnt care at all, for me was like a small step in my transition and going back is a big no-no.
So, I had to wear them cuz I needed them.
My experience mirors hers ...you wear what you need to wear when you need wearing it. Inner heart leads natural women...follow your heart then you are never wrong.Wear what you need because it is you ...To thy self be ture...
Outside of work, a bra is an absolute must in "girl mode" (even though I have to wear forms 'cause I don't have enough breasts to fill one yet). Too, I guess that I'm wishing for breasts, even though with the low dose of HRT that I'm on now, they will be a long time coming.
In guy mode though, particularly at work, I'd be absolutely scared to death to wear one. It's not like I haven't worn feminine things before - I spent a lot of days last winter wearing some androgynous looking knee-high boots with a low heel and no one really gave me a second look. But somehow, the bra (if it were noticed) would elicit some kind of unfavorable comment. And if I hadn't discussed transition with everyone, that could be "bad news".
Carol
For me, I wear a bra at work. The straps are not the thing to worry about, although I am careful about bending forward and stretching my shirt against my back. The 2 lumps that protrude from my chest seem to draw more attention, but I have this whether or not I wear a bra. So, as I said before, the bra is there to protect my nipples as well as provide some life.
Melissa
QuoteMy question is thus, have you worn a bra, or other strapped undergarment such as a camisole, under a male shirt? And if so, how do people not notice? Or do you just not care?
I have worn a bra under my shirt every day for about 1.5 years. As far as I can tell, no one has noticed. At least they haven't said anything.
I have worn a bra of some sort 24/7 since Jan . My work clothes are (its cold at the moment) 2 T shirts, polo with company logo, sweatshirt with company logo and jacket, all in black, we have a female member of staff ( car workshop) and she wears same uniform anyway back to the plot . Having man boobs any way with a under T bra (no wire) its not noticeable but not sure what to do come summer and only polo shirt time. p s baggy black trouser s so they cant see my nickers
I wear a bra under my uniform shirt almost everyday. I think I actually draw more attention to myself when I go without one as my nipples are larger and really show through. The bra diminishes that and in the end it does not seem that anyone really notices. If someone has noticed, no one has ever said anything. Most people are absorbed in their own worlds 99% of the time. Outside of a snap judgement on who they feel is standing in front of them, they are not generally digging any deeper in their interactions.
I don't wear one at work and rarely any other time either.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Once the girls started to (annoyingly) bounce too much I started wearing a bra about full-time, even to work in male mode. As my wife once said "No one can tell unless they know and know what to look for". For the most part this former fatty NEVER wears anything tight in male mode. Part of my entire body image issues. Baggy clothes are the rule. Even with my full A to B you cannot tell. In fact, without a padded or tee-shirt bra the headlights always being on is a bigger give-away I think.
Occasionally my wife will comment that "Your boobs are really showing" in certain tops, even without a bra. I smile on the inside as I change my top to help her feel better about this journey of ours
My job entails passing through security and the possibility of a patdown so that limits what I'll wear to work. I don't wear bras outside the house mainly because they show my back fat. However, I have stopped wearing men's jeans and wear only women's jeans. On occasion I will wear knee-high stockings as well and I wear only panties.
I'm in search of women's boots and sneakers that will pass for men's. My thoughts are that I'm done with buying men's clothing and it's time to build up my wardrobe. To be honest, women's jeans are just about the same as men's jeans except for the size of the pockets and the occasional back pocket design or embellishments/adornments. No one has noticed a thing or at least they haven't mentioned it.
I am currently pre everything but slowly making changes as I prepare for HRT. These clothing changes have helped my dysphoria tremendously.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
I wear a bra each day. Lol, this topic is 11 years old XD
Quote from: SailorMars1994 on March 06, 2017, 09:48:03 AM
I wear a bra each day. Lol, this topic is 11 years old XD
LOL good catch. I hadn't noticed.
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Quote from: MRV35 on March 06, 2017, 03:56:49 PM
LOL good catch. I hadn't noticed.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
It's may be 11 years old but it's still a relative topic and one ironically have been trying to figure out if/when the time comes. Plus it's new to many of us who were not on here 10 years ago. But yes, that was actually one of the first things I saw too... :D
Quote from: PaulaLee on March 06, 2017, 04:10:58 PM
It's may be 11 years old but it's still a relative topic and one ironically have been trying to figure out if/when the time comes. Plus it's new to many of us who were not on here 10 years ago. But yes, that was actually one of the first things I saw too... :D
What have you been trying to figure out? There's really nothing much about wearing a bra under a shirt. Just get a beige bra and wear it. It's unlikely to show. Even a black bra can be worn with the appropriate shirt. I have 2 beige bras and 1 black. They all get regular use and I'm currently wearing the black one under a green shirt.
I wear either a bralette or a bodycon tank top under my dress shirts at work. This past winter it was easy because the weather was so cold that I always wore a sweater vest. But in summer I have to watch the colors of the shirt and undergarment to make sure nothing shows through.
I don't know how long I can continue to get away with this, though. I'm kind of petite, and my breasts are starting to get noticeable -- to the point that I was able to discern them in the bathroom mirror this morning even underneath a bodycon tank and a loose fitting men's dress shirt.
Mostly racerback camisoles and stretchy tank tops for me on a daily basis. These provide just enough support and they have a soft fabric to keep the nipples calm. Not really very obvious but I agree you could get away with some bras under typical male tops. I think the cami's are more comfortable TBH than a bra. The comfy bras are very low profile especially under a couple layers. A t-shirt only will be a bit hard to pull off.
I have been wearing panties just about everyday for almost 2 months (my wife got me started), and I wear a bra every so often too. She will tell me if it looks obvious or not, and I either take it off or change my shirt (we have 2 teens and the oldest is VERY observant). I am in my beginning stages or everything, and luckily my career allows me to limit interactions with others. I now have a decent (small) wardrobe of women's clothing, and as for now only wear them when it's just me and the wife (except one pair of pj pants that pass as neutral). I too have felt my dysphoria go away while I am wearing women's clothes, but it does return when I have to re-assume "guy mode".
But I want to ask a side question too. I have always felt dysphoria towards my testes, but not my main organ (still learning the do's and don'ts of the rules). I have noticed that everyday that I wear panties, I feel myself becoming more dysphoric towards the whole package (more so the testes, they get in the way). Has anyone else had this, or notice this happening (or happen) to them?
Hi again Scorpia
I think I can answer yes your question. I have never really cared for my orbs. One has always been significantly larger than the other. I remember asking my oldest sister if I was weird? (I could always confide in her) Anyway I didn't like it. About a year and a half ago I underwent some difficult in hospital cancer treatments that made me swell up like a balloon with my cells leaking fluids. When it was over my biggun was about 5 times the size of the other. I asked my doctor about it and he didn't seem concerned. I like them even less now. I would have an orichectomy tomorrow if I could. LOL since starting this transition I have even more reason to want them gone. I wouldn't miss the other thing being gone if the scalpel happened to slip.
There does that answer your question?
Hugs,
Jeanette
(psssst was Dena's chair comfortable?)
Hello again to you too Jeanette ;D
Yes, that answers it perfectly. Mine have always been big, and because of that, I've never liked them (but it doesn't bother me to see them on someone else). I completely agree with you about a slip of the scalpel. The only reason I stopped looking into having an orchi, is the fact that if I come to a point for SRS, there would be less skin to use (and as far as I know, science hasn't gotten to the point of body switching, or I'd team up with someone FTM lol).
Quote from: Scorpio2Scorpia on March 08, 2017, 11:15:37 PM
The only reason I stopped looking into having an orchi, is the fact that if I come to a point for SRS, there would be less skin to use (and as far as I know, science hasn't gotten to the point of body switching, or I'd team up with someone FTM lol).
Hey Scorpia aka Victoria,
It's me again here to tell you that your research is inadequate.... My research found that having an orchi does not interfere with having srs. There is usually adequate material to do what is needed after having an orchi. Even if the doctor need a little more they would use a skin graph from elsewhere. Like what you're sitting on.
Go ahead and do your own research.
Hugs,
Jeanette
Quote from: Melissa on April 29, 2006, 01:07:27 PM
If you are already used to wearing a bra and then decide to transition, then more power to you. It will probably be less uncomfortable for you as it is for me. For me, wearing a bra takes some getting used to, but it is a necessary evil for women. It comes with the breasts. At this point, it not only hides the nipples, but now offers a little support for the breasts.
Melissa
I've been looking online at trans bodies and the images that show up are sharply divided between pre breast enhancement which looks to be mostly A cup, and doesn't appear to me to be anything that would need a bra, and the much bigger post breast enhancement.
I wore bras in androgynous mode for 20+ years before transition (not daily but certainly a few days a week) Commonly would wear a guy's shirt, women's pants and boots. The shirts were just a bit baggier and thicker.
Shirts from the women's side were always a challenge and even today they somewhat remain so. I am fairly thin waisted but i have muscular shoulders that estrogen are slowly thinning and when i get something large enough to accommodate my shoulders and my bust, the rest sort of hangs off me like a tent :) So i am beginning to have tops tailored a bit more. I do find things off the rack that are nice too.
I had small breasts before HRT so i definitely understand the need for a bra, and sometimes you just want to wear one to feel more feminine. Another thing to consider is bralettes, they provide some security without a lot of projection or bulk.
Quote from: JeanetteLW on March 09, 2017, 12:54:10 AM
Quote from: Scorpio2Scorpia on March 08, 2017, 11:15:37 PM
The only reason I stopped looking into having an orchi, is the fact that if I come to a point for SRS, there would be less skin to use (and as far as I know, science hasn't gotten to the point of body switching, or I'd team up with someone FTM lol).
Hey Scorpia aka Victoria,
It's me again here to tell you that your research is inadequate.... My research found that having an orchi does not interfere with having srs. There is usually adequate material to do what is needed after having an orchi. Even if the doctor need a little more they would use a skin graph from elsewhere. Like what you're sitting on.
Go ahead and do your own research.
Hugs,
Jeanette
This is not fully true. Some surgeons will not touch you if you haved an orchi. Others requires the incision be placed where they don't disturb the circulation or nerve connections. Before having an orchi you should contact the surgeon(s) you are considering having GCS with and find out what their policy is about orchis.
Quote from: Dena on March 09, 2017, 03:30:02 PM
This is not fully true. Some surgeons will not touch you if you haved an orchi. Others requires the incision be placed where they don't disturb the circulation or nerve connections. Before having an orchi you should contact the surgeon(s) you are considering having GCS with and find out what their policy is about orchis.
This is what I have read from most Dr's that do GRS/SRS. The other issue that comes from an orchi before is the lack of elasticity in the punishment from it not having elections anymore (unless viagra helps, which I don't know about). For me, personally I'd rather wait and do it right the 1st time. Being new to expressing myself with my wife and not even talking to a professional yet, I don't even know where I'm heading, I just know what's been in me my whole life.
Valerie (TBD)
As a side note, Dena I want to let you know I have nothing but extreme admiration for you. I have read many posts that you've replied to, and you are a big reason I've been able to express myself more comfortably, and not felt "out of place". There are plenty of others I have read too, but you stand out the most;D
Quote from: Dena on March 09, 2017, 03:30:02 PM
Hey Scorpia aka Victoria,
It's me again here to tell you that your research is inadequate.... My research found that having an orchi does not interfere with having srs. There is usually adequate material to do what is needed after having an orchi. Even if the doctor need a little more they would use a skin graph from elsewhere. Like what you're sitting on.
Go ahead and do your own research.
Hugs,
Jeanette
This is not fully true. Some surgeons will not touch you if you haved an orchi. Others requires the incision be placed where they don't disturb the circulation or nerve connections. Before having an orchi you should contact the surgeon(s) you are considering having GCS with and find out what their policy is about orchis.
Thank you for the correction, Dena. I knew I shouldn't have posted that as if I knew what I was talking about. Perhaps someday I'll learn.
Hugs,
Jeanette
Quote from: Scorpio2Scorpia on March 09, 2017, 03:50:55 PM
As a side note, Dena I want to let you know I have nothing but extreme admiration for you. I have read many posts that you've replied to, and you are a big reason I've been able to express myself more comfortably, and not felt "out of place". There are plenty of others I have read too, but you stand out the most;D
I am just an old maid who needs to get a life (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=statistics;u=42503). I need to keep my brain occupied and I enjoy solving problems so this site is a natural for me and I am glad to help.
A couple things:
I wear a bra. most of the time, and it's usually a bralette or sports bra. A tank top over that, and then a checked or flannel shirt. These break up the outlines of anything that shows through, and so far I haven't been clocked.
I wear women's jeans, but haven't figured out dress pants yet. Also, I have no idea how to get a blouse that won't give me away. So it's men's shirts - I console myself by saying they could be "boyfriend" shirts.
Last, summer is coming, and I've no idea how to get away with this under a t-shirt or how I will wear shorts around my family who know I don't swim or bike.
I should note that I'm on hormones, so breast growth is now enough that it's uncomfortable to NOT wear something to protect my nipples, and there's enough of a bulge from them that it's hard to hide under a t-shirt with no bra.
I quit trying to hide anything. Worrying about that all the time was kind of like having reverse dysphoria and it stressed me out.
And yes, it is impossible to hide under a t shirt, with or without bra.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
A sports bra is what I wear out and about in guy mode. Keeps them from jiggling. Just make sure to buy the next size up to make sure the band does not feel too tight. It can alter your breathing.
I love wearing a bra, I don't think any one even notices. I some times wear a sports bra for a change, and you do not see any lines through a shirt.