I've been thinking about androgynes and their partners or lack of.
There seems to be a common theme amongst us that we feel that we were slow to grow up, slow to mature. I wonder if this has had an effect on our early relationships - do we tend to 'date' at a later age than others, and date less? I get the impression that we are relationship light as a group (or maybe this is common amongst all transgendered people?) and I'm not entirely sure why that is in regard to androgynes seeing as we tend to be rather invisible transgenderers.
I had my first girlfriend when I was 20 and I thought this was rather late considering all my friends were in and out of relationships. I wonder if it was because of my inability to play the male 'part' in the dance. Maybe we tend to be attracted to people that are not attracted to us? Maybe we appear immature? Maybe the people that would be comfortable with a partner who was on some level not male or female are not that common or maybe those same people are trapped by social law and tend to pick more socially appropriate partners. I don't know. Any thoughts?
I don't think that not having girlfriends (or boyfriends) in high school had to do with emotional maturity, mostly I was a loner and considered nerdy or a ->-bleeped-<- so everyone avoided me, except to beat me up. >:( And of course, anytime I was interested in anyone, they weren't at all interested in me :( Once out of high school, life changed, and I was able to find compatible partners. :)
Z
I never really got started at all.
In my 20's, I had to get really drunk and hope someone would show interest. I found someone who stuck, but if she ran away right now, I'd be back where I was, except I don't drink anymore, so I would be entirely conscious during the terrible ordeal of waiting and hoping someone else would make a move.
I guess I probably haven't changed much, though I'd like to think that I can initiate a relationship, I doubt it.
I suck.
Quote from: Rebis on March 30, 2008, 04:57:54 PM
I never really got started at all.
In my 20's, I had to get really drunk and hope someone would show interest. I found someone who stuck, but if she ran away right now, I'd be back where I was, except I don't drink anymore, so I would be entirely conscious during the terrible ordeal of waiting and hoping someone else would make a move.
I guess I probably haven't changed much, though I'd like to think that I can initiate a relationship, I doubt it.
I suck.
Reebs, you're such an adorable person, I bet there's tons of guys and gals just praying you'll make a move. :laugh:
I never really dated, but I did have a girlfriend in high school.
I had several partners willing and waiting over the years, but I never took advantage. I had no idea what I was and I did not want a one night stand. So it was either keep them at bay or start a relationship and hope my gender issues did not catch up and send me down the mtf route. As I get to know myself better, I now know that won't happen and am more willing to give a relationship a shot. Unfortunately, that presents a problem. I have so little experience compared to others of my age in terms of sex, relationships, dating, etc.
Posted on: March 30, 2008, 06:29:25 PM
Quote from: Nero on March 30, 2008, 05:36:05 PM
Reebs, you're such an adorable person, I bet there's tons of guys and gals just praying you'll make a move. :laugh:
They are, but are not receptive of it.
My experience has been a person like Rebis (and myself) will not be able to meet anyone except by chance, internet or a friend. Unless the other person makes the move.
The men and women want it, but they do not recognize us due to all the players hitting on them, they expect smoothness. We get blown off in a crowd due to inexperience. Unless you play the game and are good at it, you can forget the typical meeting places like clubs, bars, etc...
I have to admit myself that I am generally unaware of people that like me. It is like a really big blind spot considering I can be very sensitive to moods. I'm sure this blind spot hampered my early trials. My wife tells me that I get men and women checking me out all the time but I never notice. Perhaps I'm missing the binary signals, or it could be I'm just generally unaware - sometimes a cigar is a cigar.
I've just had a thought. We have talk about others not being able to read us, or the mildness of our natures, maybe when we like other people they can't tell and they don't get the message. Perhaps in order to be more successful in getting into relationships we need to be more forward.
I suppose initiating a relationship is difficult for most people most of the time and being transgendered just makes it more so, it is not like we are all known for our great self esteem.
Quote from: sd on March 30, 2008, 06:46:44 PM
Quote from: Nero on March 30, 2008, 05:36:05 PM
Reebs, you're such an adorable person, I bet there's tons of guys and gals just praying you'll make a move. :laugh:
They are, but are not receptive of it.
My experience has been a person like Rebis (and myself) will not be able to meet anyone except by chance, internet or a friend. Unless the other person makes the move.
The men and women want it, but they do not recognize us due to all the players hitting on them, they expect smoothness. We get blown off in a crowd due to inexperience. Unless you play the game and are good at it, you can forget the typical meeting places like clubs, bars, etc...
Yeah. Thank you, Nero, but SD is right.
I am 22, I've never had a relationship really, and definitely not a long term relationship. But I always attributed that to my selfishness, I can't really go any other way than my own, locks people out.
I have a serious need to share.
I'll share, but I'm not going your way - unless it coincides with mine, I just can't.
in that case, I'll start packing. You can expect to make your own breakfast tomorrow. Or today. Or whatever time it is here in London where we both have been sharing a flat. can of coca-cola.
>:(
:'( ow.
But I wanted to watch you go your way anyway.
Quote from: NickSister on March 30, 2008, 07:36:39 PM
I have to admit myself that I am generally unaware of people that like me. It is like a really big blind spot considering I can be very sensitive to moods. I'm sure this blind spot hampered my early trials. My wife tells me that I get men and women checking me out all the time but I never notice. Perhaps I'm missing the binary signals, or it could be I'm just generally unaware - sometimes a cigar is a cigar.
I've just had a thought. We have talk about others not being able to read us, or the mildness of our natures, maybe when we like other people they can't tell and they don't get the message. Perhaps in order to be more successful in getting into relationships we need to be more forward.
I suppose initiating a relationship is difficult for most people most of the time and being transgendered just makes it more so, it is not like we are all known for our great self esteem.
I don't even want to admit to how blind I can be to signals, it's flat out embarrassing.
I have gone so far as to tell one person if they want to seduce me, just hit me upside the head with a baseball bat and drag me to bed by my hair caveman style otherwise I might not get it. Hmmm, now that I think about it, I still might confuse that method for anger.
The self esteem is possibly a part of it, but I do not think that is all there is to it.
I'm also pretty clueless when it comes to noticing that people are interested in me, and haven't been the initiator in most relationships. Not that it matters at this point, I've been w/ my partner for a dozen years. I'd have no idea how to find someone else if I had to.
Hmmmm, could be fun to move in w/ Pica and Rebis though :P
Z
I find this thread oddly compelling and unnervingly familiar.
I wonder if one can be an androgyne TS... ???
Quote from: lady amarant on March 31, 2008, 07:42:32 AM
I find this thread oddly compelling and unnervingly familiar.
I wonder if one can be an androgyne TS... ???
Sharing some traits with us doesn't mean you aren't TS, just an extra groovy person.
I have a thought that there are androgyne TS's.
QuoteI have a thought that there are androgyne TS's.
Yeah, I mean, there are like 65 million colours in the colour spectrum, why not as many variations in the gender/sex spectrum?!
if you have nothing better to do than to count how many colors exist, then maybe you would be better of spending that time looking for a job. ;)
Quote from: lady amarant on March 31, 2008, 07:42:32 AM
I wonder if one can be an androgyne TS... ???
Sure, why not? Shhhhh, don't tell the binary TS though >:D :P
Speaking for myself, having gone through transition as M2F TS before realizing myself as androgyne, they seem to be variations on the spectrum.
Z
Quote from: Rebis on March 31, 2008, 08:14:06 AM
if you have nothing better to do than to count how many colors exist, then maybe you would be better of spending that time looking for a job. ;)
FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I have a job. :P
I just happen to be a total slacker at it...Posted on: 31 March 2008, 07:55:32
Quote from: Zythyra on March 31, 2008, 08:43:06 AM
Sure, why not? Shhhhh, don't tell the binary TS though >:D :P
Z
*giggle* Mum's the word. :eusa_shhh:
Quote from: sd on March 30, 2008, 06:46:44 PM
Unless you play the game and are good at it, you can forget the typical meeting places like clubs, bars, etc...
Relationships have all been since high school. My meeting places have been synagogue (two or three times), EST seminar, food co-op, college classroom (because I was willing to listen to her complaints and seem interested), and once while answering work-related questions from a one-time colleague after I had switched to another job. Usually a sexual relationship has been initiated and terminated by the Other (all female). One later told me she pursued gay or married men because they were "safe".
My sense of humor works as flirting when applied to a female. I late realized that if I became interested in a female, she was probably already interested in me. I don't think I've been interested that way in anyone since sometime before I got re-married twenty years ago. Our relationship has become more intense since I stated taking finasteride; she says it's because she was hospitalized after a car crash about that time and has needed me more in the months since. And says she chose me because I lacked some offensive (to her) masculine traits.
In weirdness,
Simone
Quote from: Simone Louise on March 31, 2008, 10:01:13 AM
Relationships have all been since high school. My meeting places have been synagogue (two or three times), EST seminar, food co-op, college classroom (because I was willing to listen to her complaints and seem interested), and once while answering work-related questions from a one-time colleague after I had switched to another job. Usually a sexual relationship has been initiated and terminated by the Other (all female). One later told me she pursued gay or married men because they were "safe".
Exactly, in those places women are much less on guard and more open, often more willing to initiate contact themselves. The women I have become friends with (and more) all happened in similar ways as well. They were always in control of things. I can put myself in a position that makes it easy for them, but they have to initiate.
I first started dating girls when I was 10. I have not officially dated any guys, although I have kissed plenty, and had some unofficial relationships. I was sexually active (although didn't actually have sex) when I was 15 or so. I first actually had sex when I was 19 (with the girl that is my wife). Officially I have had 3 declared girlfriends in my life, and one that was a 'relationship' but we were not 'girl-friend and boy-friend' (I dunno, she was weird). Although I have been involved with... lots... I've never really been the type to do stereotypical dates, so it's really hard to define which ones I was actually dating. Perhaps if you say 'mutually emotionally involved' then yeah, we'll go with that definition. Probably upwards of 20. If you drop the 'mutually' part, then probably add on another 20 on both sides.
Now, I'm a heartbreaker. I'm very married, and completely dedicated. However, I am also an extreme flirt. So I tend to break all sorts of hearts, girls and guys.
Quote from: lady amarant on March 31, 2008, 07:42:32 AM
I find this thread oddly compelling and unnervingly familiar.
I wonder if one can be an androgyne TS... ???
Or maybe you're like me, Lady A. Most definitely TS but not being a model member of our gender. I'm assuredly a man, no doubt whatsoever about that but really don't fit the mold - I care too much about my looks and know diddly about sports. There are also things about me that are clearly femme - could just be the female upbringing, but I suspect much of it's just natural.
Oh cept' of course my first real long term relationship was at 15 (first long term relationship, not first sexual experience >:D) And my love life has been as populated as the night sky with the stars. Literally. >:D
Quote from: Nero on April 01, 2008, 02:48:09 PM
And my love life has been as populated as the night sky with the stars. Literally. >:D
Hmmm. So you've been with many stars eh? Ever date de Nero?
Yes. Of course that was intentional!~Simone,
Taking lame to all-time lows!
I had a few girlfriends in high school; they initiated the relationship in each case.
After school, I had a few opportunities to "hit it" with some of my co-workers, but decided that I was not really interested in that kind of deal. I was waiting for something better.
I've been hit on indirectly a few times and didn't recognize it for what it was until years later ::)
I've never been the kind of person to hang out in bars and try to score. Even if I were I have no game :laugh:
Women always see me as the "nice guy" I am.
Lately something new has been happening as I reach middle age. I have had several married middle aged women hit on me. Since I am also happily married (I initiated that relationship ha!) I just say no.
If women (or guys) are interested in me i'm pretty much oblivious to it.
Quote from: NickSister on March 30, 2008, 07:36:39 PM
I have to admit myself that I am generally unaware of people that like me. It is like a really big blind spot considering I can be very sensitive to moods.
Exactly. I might be the most oblivious person on the planet. That or people just don't like me. But I'm not attractive (well, my face isn't bad, but the rest of me...) and I feel like I come across a little cold/aloof. I think I'm hard to get close to. Also, I just don't meet many new people. And of the ones I do meet, most of them I'm not interested in. I would be suspicious of anyone who did like me though. *sigh* I might be my worst enemy.
If anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old. Short and simple. :D
Quote
I've just had a thought. We have talk about others not being able to read us, or the mildness of our natures, maybe when we like other people they can't tell and they don't get the message. Perhaps in order to be more successful in getting into relationships we need to be more forward.
I suppose initiating a relationship is difficult for most people most of the time and being transgendered just makes it more so, it is not like we are all known for our great self esteem.
That's what I was afraid of. It's hard to be more forward when you have no confidence.
Quote from: Jaimey on April 02, 2008, 10:39:21 PM
If anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old. Short and simple. :D
Quote
I've just had a thought. We have talk about others not being able to read us, or the mildness of our natures, maybe when we like other people they can't tell and they don't get the message. Perhaps in order to be more successful in getting into relationships we need to be more forward.
I suppose initiating a relationship is difficult for most people most of the time and being transgendered just makes it more so, it is not like we are all known for our great self esteem.
That's what I was afraid of. It's hard to be more forward when you have no confidence.
One time, at the end of a
rare date, I asked a girl if I could kiss her. I don't remember if I kissed her or not. The next day my friends were laughing at me because she told her sister and I guess you're not supposed to ask.
Within a month or so, she was dating a caveman.
Have I said lately, that I hate the norms?
Rebis
This awkwardness is not limited to androgynes. When I tell my wife I love her, she usually responds "I don't understand why." or "That's stupid." But then she's not a stereotypical woman; you don't suppose she's an androgyne, but doesn't know it?
QuoteOne time, at the end of a rare date, I asked a girl if I could kiss her. I don't remember if I kissed her or not. The next day my friends were laughing at me because she told her sister and I guess you're not supposed to ask.
Within a month or so, she was dating a caveman.
Have I said lately, that I hate the norms?
I don't know, one of my friends went out with a guy once who asked if he could kiss her, and she said she was pleasantly surprised that he was so gentlemanly. She said she asked him why he'd asked in the first place, and he said it was 'cause he didn't want to scare her and have her kiss him back out of shock rather than love (or whatever).
So I think it must have just been that particular girl, Reebs. I swear we're not
all giggling girly gits (though I can't very well boast about being the rule for how girls are s'posed to be...).
I myself have never had a relationship (as in 'partner', not as in 'the alternative being that I've been a cave-hermit my entire life') *ever*. And I think one of the biggest parts of it really is the self-confidence thing. I'm *hopeless* at maths, but the idea that no confidence = no partner is (unfortunately) fairly straight-forward, at least from where I'm sitting. I'm hopeless at talking to people in unfamiliar situations 'cause I just *know* that sooner or later I'll make a complete idiot of myself, and I never go to clubs, 'cause I hate them. I just don't see the point in sitting around in a place where the music's so loud you can't hear anyone without shouting in each other's ears, and where, on leaving several hours later, you realize your heart's down by your liver and your lungs have been
thump, thump, thumped into having a ménage à trois with your large intestine. Mmm,
really not my cup of tea :P (Earl Grey, one sugar with a bit of milk. In case anyone had the irrepressable desire to know ;)).
So yeah. The story of my single life thus far. :eusa_boohoo:
And what Jaimey said was quite right:
QuoteIf anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old. Short and simple.
Yep, if anyone's ever liked me in the past, I've never noticed it. Even if they danced naked in front of me waving a sign that said "I LOVE YOU!!!", I'd swear they were dancing for someone else. :icon_joy::icon_love::icon_shrug_no:
Hopeless case, really. Crazy old catwomandom, here I come! :laugh:
I hated bars and clubs too.
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 03, 2008, 09:02:19 AM
This awkwardness is not limited to androgynes. When I tell my wife I love her, she usually responds "I don't understand why." or "That's stupid." But then she's not a stereotypical woman; you don't suppose she's an androgyne, but doesn't know it?
Just looking around this site it seems almost anyone who is with one of us (Tg in general) or stayed with us after coming out to them do not entirely fit the stereotypical binary, not all, but at least a good percentage. Are they different from a normal binary, or are they really a typical binary and no one realizes it? I think most people in this section of the forum think gender is more of a sliding scale, maybe we tend to attract those a bit further from the ends of the spectrum but still more or less considered a binary. Where does androgyne begin and "binary" start? Or maybe they just simply prefer someone more middle of the road, I would imagine many woman would prefer a guy who is a mix of both. Same goes for some men most likely.
Of course she could be an androgyne and not know, look how long it took many of us to figure it out. Had we not gone looking for explanations we would probably be still be unsure of our place. Maybe she is but not extreme enough to question. It all comes back to what she feels, it would only be a guess on your part. Either way, she seems like a hell of a woman based on what all you have said about her in the past.
Quote from: sd on April 03, 2008, 11:54:36 AM
Just looking around this site it seems almost anyone who is with one of us (Tg in general) or stayed with us after coming out to them do not entirely fit the stereotypical binary, not all, but at least a good percentage. Are they different from a normal binary, or are they really a typical binary and no one realizes it? I think most people in this section of the forum think gender is more of a sliding scale, maybe we tend to attract those a bit further from the ends of the spectrum but still more or less considered a binary. Where does androgyne begin and "binary" start? Or maybe they just simply prefer someone more middle of the road, I would imagine many woman would prefer a guy who is a mix of both. Same goes for some men most likely.
My partner doesn't identify as either androgyne or transgender, however isn't at all typical of hir birth sex. Sie says that being with me has allowed hir to fully be hirself on the gender continuum as well. I see hir as the unique multi-gendered being that sie is, and sie sees me as same. We are extremely fortunate to have found each other! ;D
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 12:34:13 PM
My partner doesn't identify as either androgyne or transgender, however isn't at all typical of hir birth sex. Sie says that being with me has allowed hir to fully be hirself on the gender continuum as well. I see hir as the unique multi-gendered being that sie is, and sie sees me as same. We are extremely fortunate to have found each other! ;D
Z
Thank you Z, I have wondered about that for a while.
Quote from: Lutin on April 03, 2008, 09:23:34 AM
I don't know, one of my friends went out with a guy once who asked if he could kiss her, and she said she was pleasantly surprised that he was so gentlemanly. She said she asked him why he'd asked in the first place, and he said it was 'cause he didn't want to scare her and have her kiss him back out of shock rather than love (or whatever).
So I think it must have just been that particular girl, Reebs. I swear we're not all giggling girly gits (though I can't very well boast about being the rule for how girls are s'posed to be...).
I myself have never had a relationship (as in 'partner', not as in 'the alternative being that I've been a cave-hermit my entire life') *ever*. And I think one of the biggest parts of it really is the self-confidence thing. I'm *hopeless* at maths, but the idea that no confidence = no partner is (unfortunately) fairly straight-forward, at least from where I'm sitting. I'm hopeless at talking to people in unfamiliar situations 'cause I just *know* that sooner or later I'll make a complete idiot of myself.
So yeah. The story of my single life thus far. :eusa_boohoo:
And what Jaimey said was quite right:
QuoteIf anyone did like me, I wouldn't know unless they explained it to me...like they're talking to a 5 year old. Short and simple.
Yep, if anyone's ever liked me in the past, I've never noticed it. Even if they danced naked in front of me waving a sign that said "I LOVE YOU!!!", I'd swear they were dancing for someone else. :icon_joy::icon_love::icon_shrug_no:
Hopeless case, really. Crazy old catwomandom, here I come! :laugh:
I think I said this before, but we could be twins...
The only time I've ever enjoyed a club was when we had the local goth nights because the music was good (mostly electronica and similar styles) and most of the people were NOT drunk. You could dance without worrying about unwanted attention. But that's the only time I've ever enjoyed a club.
QuoteOne time, at the end of a rare date, I asked a girl if I could kiss her. I don't remember if I kissed her or not. The next day my friends were laughing at me because she told her sister and I guess you're not supposed to ask.
Within a month or so, she was dating a caveman.
Have I said lately, that I hate the norms?
One of my friends had a guy ask if he could hold her hand. I loved it, but she thought it was weird. I would ask before I kissed someone. I don't want to be taken by surprise and I don't want to take anyone else by surprise.
Personally, I think it's sweet to ask. It's certainly better than having someone just suddenly sticking their tongue down your throat.
For quite a while I thought I was odd compared to other people my age growing up. Like my "drive" was stuck in low gear. Where, they would find at least 9/10 people attractive and want to date them, I simply wasn't even a 1/10 kind of person.
But I wouldn't say it was low or slow maturity...because I think it is okay to have less drive than the average person. Who needs to be average? I'm comfortable with being a 1/10 kind of person now and don't want to change.
Whether the relationships were romantic or platonic I've always had less in numbers, but at least I have had some since my early teen years. Having none would be a real problem. In my elementary and pre-schooling years I kinda had none, that wasn't good. I've actually thought about that a lot, and talked with my boyfriend about not having friends in my very early years. Before elementary school I went from one daycare or preschool to another from birth, basically, so I never stayed at one place long enough to make a connection to another my age. Then I got put in the same elementary school for seven years (K-6). It was a very small school so once I was labeled as the reject it stayed that way. That's the gist of it.
My partner/boyfriend and I were friends our last two years of High School, both of us liked each other a lot but neither of us acted during High School. I was completely oblivious that he liked me...I guess our several minute hugs when I came and left his house weren't hint enough ::) . A few months after High School he confessed he loved me and it has been great ever since.
I dated in High School, and dating blows imho. I am actually happy in a relationship that transitioned from friendship to something so much more. Five years plus and going strong! Heck, maybe its that I wasn't distracted by my attraction that I have been able to work out something so great with him. I was more concerned with our friendship, having fun, and hanging out than when I dated and was playing a role that I thought I had to play. Roles suck, being yourself with someone rules. And dating seems to be so much about roles, not about people and their thoughts or feelings.
I've never had a girlfriend though I've had lots of female friends who i have loved but they never wanted to be any more than friends. One girl did come on to me. she wanted a sex partner i wanted love when I realized this i made clear not interested until she "dumped" me she is the only girl I've kissed and i wish i hadn't. I feel like I'm not man enough for most girls. I don't want to be a manly man. But I don't know how I'll ever find Love especially when My Brain is more female than male and I have a great urge to change my body to show mixed signals I'm not getting rid of the only part of me that has ever been complemented on - my beard. I'm scared that i'll never find Love would any one ever be able to love a freak like me with my health issues getting out and meating people is very hard aswell :'(
I think i need a hug
You are still young, and for every kink, fetish, perversion or oddity, there is a person who loves that. It may take a while, but it is not impossible. There women out there who would prefer a person like yourself. :icon_hug:
Kikly, I agree with SD. Your Belle will come and find the You within attractive. My brother-in-law is getting married soon; he is 43. My own brother and my uncle also married late.
My recipe, for what it's worth, is to forget about looking for a lover. Concentrate on being a friend. Find places where you can meet women as two people pursuing common interests. I have taken cooking, weaving, and sewing classes and joined the League of Women Voters, not to meet women but because my interests took me there. I have met women who became interested in me studying anthropology, at EST meetings, in the synagogue, and at work. In each case, I was just following my admiration and fascination with their thoughts and feelings and what they were doing with their lives. I was open to the romantic attachment, but in each case it caught me by surprise. I am no longer open to such attachments, but I still make new friends.
Hugs,
S
Quote from: Kikly on April 18, 2008, 03:07:44 PM
I've never had a girlfriend though I've had lots of female friends who i have loved but they never wanted to be any more than friends. One girl did come on to me. she wanted a sex partner i wanted love when I realized this i made clear not interested until she "dumped" me she is the only girl I've kissed and i wish i hadn't. I feel like I'm not man enough for most girls. I don't want to be a manly man. But I don't know how I'll ever find Love especially when My Brain is more female than male and I have a great urge to change my body to show mixed signals I'm not getting rid of the only part of me that has ever been complemented on - my beard. I'm scared that i'll never find Love would any one ever be able to love a freak like me with my health issues getting out and meating people is very hard aswell :'(
I think i need a hug
Love is overrated. Avoid it if you can. Just enjoy having no strings.
Relationships, what odd things!
In high school I had a "boyfriend" for about two years. Though, really the extent of that was playing video games and making out. That's really the closest thing to a relationship I've had. Just that and a lot of random making out.
Another thing Kikly,
In your current state, you probably don't need to be looking.
Focus on figuring out who and what you are first. When you do that, it will become easier. If you do not understand yourself, how can you expect someone else to. A relationship could just mess with your head further and end tragic.
Focus on yourself for a bit.
Quote from: betapleatedsheet on April 18, 2008, 06:26:38 PM
Relationships, what odd things!
In high school I had a "boyfriend" for about two years. Though, really the extent of that was playing video games and making out. That's really the closest thing to a relationship I've had. Just that and a lot of random making out.
that's all I want.
Heck yeah, making out rocks my socks!
To add a dash of drunk wisdom to this thread, there's a lot moremaking out-itly attracted to thank sexualy attracted to. Probably because I don't think I want a penis in me. But making out is glorious anyway.
Quote from: sd on April 18, 2008, 07:49:03 PM
Focus on figuring out who and what you are first.
On the other hand, the proper SO can help in the process which may last your entire life. Ideally, a couple exchanging mutual unconditional support can do what a single person might not dare. My wife thought I matched the profile of the unibomber. We were in the same places about the same times. Were it not for her, I could have been happy living the life of a hermit in some Montana cabin. Though being possessed of mild androgyne-like temperament, I doubt I would be sending out bombs.
It don't hurt to keep one's eyes open,
S
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 19, 2008, 11:36:44 AM
It don't hurt to keep one's eyes open,
S
You're right Simone, but dwelling on it is not good either.
Thanks for kind words of support
Quote from: Nero on April 18, 2008, 04:17:32 PM
Love is overrated. Avoid it if you can. Just enjoy having no strings.
not helpful nero
Love is like air Its only an issue if you can't get any - like me :'( I've never had "strings" & feel i need it to survive
i've always looked for friends then tried to turn friends into something more - without being too pushy. I'll stick to that tactic for a while or until someone offers to help me out
Quote from: Kikly on April 19, 2008, 06:04:27 PM
Thanks for kind words of support
Quote from: Nero on April 18, 2008, 04:17:32 PM
Love is overrated. Avoid it if you can. Just enjoy having no strings.
not helpful nero
Love is like air Its only an issue if you can't get any - like me :'( I've never had "strings" & feel i need it to survive
i've always looked for friends then tried to turn friends into something more - without being too pushy. I'll stick to that tactic for a while or until someone offers to help me out
I apologize. I can be a bit flippant at times. Especially when it comes to matters of the heart. I really would like to help, hon.
Okay - here goes:
Love isn't something you do. Love is something that happens to you. Once you stop looking for it, it will be there.
As far as your present tactic with friends - I don't know. I've had friends I wanted something more from and friends that wanted something more from me and neither scenario has worked out.
It sucks you're feeling lonely and I wish I could help.
May I ask why you feel you need it to survive?
Quote from: Nero on April 19, 2008, 06:24:00 PM
Quote from: Kikly on April 19, 2008, 06:04:27 PM
Thanks for kind words of support
Quote from: Nero on April 18, 2008, 04:17:32 PM
Love is overrated. Avoid it if you can. Just enjoy having no strings.
not helpful nero
Love is like air Its only an issue if you can't get any - like me :'( I've never had "strings" & feel i need it to survive
i've always looked for friends then tried to turn friends into something more - without being too pushy. I'll stick to that tactic for a while or until someone offers to help me out
I apologize. I can be a bit flippant at times. Especially when it comes to matters of the heart. I really would like to help, hon.
Okay - here goes:
Love isn't something you do. Love is something that happens to you. Once you stop looking for it, it will be there.
As far as your present tactic with friends - I don't know. I've had friends I wanted something more from and friends that wanted something more from me and neither scenario has worked out.
It sucks you're feeling lonely and I wish I could help.
May I ask why you feel you need it to survive?
I'm a very emotional person
i dont know if this will make since but I feel like I have a limited supply of positive energy when I'm with friends and feel like I'm supported my supply increases. when ever i feel negative emotions it goes down currently the main downers are envy and loneliness I feel envious of people who are happy and in relationship when they flaunting it infront of me (seems that way) I try to keep myself busy so as not to dwell on my loneliness. I know that when my positive energy is almost gone I'll dip into deprision and start to consider suicide. I'm hopeful that I won't try again after last time. being as relationship issues have the strongest pull in both directions I don't know how i will survive long term without a S.O.
every long term successful relationship that i know of the couple were friends before they were lovers
You're going to find someone. Don't worry about that part of it.
I need it to survive too...I feel your loneliness. :'( *hugs* Feel better soon!
I got my first gf when I was 5. I kept goign through them and guys. I was 17 before I was single for the first time in my life, lol.
Quote from: Rebis on April 20, 2008, 08:26:39 AM
You're going to find someone. Don't worry about that part of it.
but what if you are paralysed by fear when you find them (and i am m'dear.)
Quote from: Pica Pica on April 20, 2008, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: Rebis on April 20, 2008, 08:26:39 AM
You're going to find someone. Don't worry about that part of it.
but what if you are paralysed by fear when you find them (and i am m'dear.)
That question is beyond my limited experience, and yet, I feel compelled to ramble on about it.
When I was young, I just wouldn't say anything to anyone ever and I would just suffer miserably. Now that I'm an old swine, I don't think I'd have an issue with talking to someone about it. It's not a terrible thing to like someone or to be liked by someone (unless it's a stalker).
I believe how it works for me now (because I can't actually
try it because I'm already with someone), is that I can tell someone how I feel about them and allow them the freedom to not feel burdened by
having to reciprocate. I'd let them know I can handle things the way they are if they have no desire to do otherwise. Also, I'd let them know that they are not hurting me because I can feel for someone while accepting that they feel differently.
I don't know if this comes with age or experience. Considering my lack of experience, I would think age.
so, all you have to do is wait 20 years. ;D
Quote from: Pica Pica on April 20, 2008, 08:15:38 PM
but what if you are paralysed by fear when you find them (and i am m'dear.)
What Rebis said applies to me as well.
My advice is you can get up the nerve and try, or sit and do nothing. I don't recomend the latter.
Remember Pica, they are human just like you. You can always hope the other person will make a move, but they may be waiting for you. I am not saying it is easy, just that if no one does anything, you get nowhere. Unfortunately, like Rebis it took me a long time as well.
I guess the only thing I can really add to what Rebis said is, try not to take as long.
what if you are paralysed by fear
Look for someone else who's not moving either then. I'm sure there are just as many people of the 'other' (no matter what that other might be) who feel as you do.
I just think that all too often what people think is a 'relationship" is defined by therapists as 'co-dependency.'
Quote from: sd on April 21, 2008, 12:41:32 AM
Remember Pica, they are human just like you.
but taller
Quote from: Rebis on April 21, 2008, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: sd on April 21, 2008, 12:41:32 AM
Remember Pica, they are human just like you.
but taller
Being human doesn't help. That means they have their own insecurities and hangups. At best, you're going to get ambiguous, inconsistent, and indecisive messages from them. So you need to be prepared to lose face, to be perplexed, to make mistakes, and all that stuff. It'd be a whole lot easier to court an android, but less fun and less rewarding.
I've come to rely on my observation that the person I am attracted to is usually attracted to me. Begin with baby steps; go with instincts; be honest with self. Being rejected hurts--period. A little snuggling makes up for a lot of hurt.
My first wife and I still belong to the same synagogue. Last night, the two of us and our current spouses shared a table there for dinner. Her husband is English with a thick Northern accent, a machine tool maker, likes to work on and sell cars, a secularist who loves arguments (he gets frustrated when he tries to argue with me), probably not an androgyne. I asked for the divorce, and it still hurt and took a long time to reconcile with.
I am happier now. When my wife and I first became an item, friends raised their eyebrows. She knows all my buttons, and we have some intense fights (and I hang onto a grudge longer than she). I am pretty much a loner and a self-contained person. I am far from understanding and coming to terms with who I am. Never have I regretted taking a chance on a relationship.
Pica Pica, you who are such a leader and androgyne role model, lovable in pants or dress--you can face and rise above your fears.
You deserve the best,
S
That's it. I vote we create an androgyne dating service and make it easier on everyone. :-*
I think my biggest problem is letting myself feel something for another person. I'm ridiculously detached. I have no idea how to connect with other people. Any connections I have now happened by accident. I can't sympathize with people, I HATE empty talk (my roommates drown me in it), and I just don't have a clue how to relate to people. I think I'm a little self centered. ??? I just don't care about much...or many people. But the people I do connect with I care about very much, it's just I don't know how to connect. *sigh* But small talk is so exhausting!!! I just don't have it in me to sit through a spiel that I care nothing about...
So about that dating service...
Quote from: Jaimey on April 21, 2008, 07:44:15 PM
That's it. I vote we create an androgyne dating service and make it easier on everyone. :-*
I think my biggest problem is letting myself feel something for another person. I'm ridiculously detached. I have no idea how to connect with other people. Any connections I have now happened by accident. I can't sympathize with people, I HATE empty talk (my roommates drown me in it), and I just don't have a clue how to relate to people. I think I'm a little self centered. ??? I just don't care about much...or many people. But the people I do connect with I care about very much, it's just I don't know how to connect. *sigh* But small talk is so exhausting!!! I just don't have it in me to sit through a spiel that I care nothing about...
So about that dating service...
maybe you're more self aware. That's what I consider myself. Most people are not aware of themselves to the degree or in the way we are hyper-aware about ourselves.
Also, it is probably a self defensive thing to not connect with everyone so easily. Otherwise we'd be killed by our own empathy. I don't feel guilty about the detached part of me. I've learned that when the heart is needed, it will make it's appearance in a big way.
i often say the 'don't care much thing.' most times it makes things easier.
Feigning interest is not something I do well and I get so tired of smiling when all I really want to do is tell the person to shut up...
I suppose I do care, but I don't sympathize well. That might be a better way to say it. It just seems like people are always obsessing over insignificant crap that gets in the way of the important stuff and it drives me banana sandwich. :-\
Quotemaybe you're more self aware. That's what I consider myself. Most people are not aware of themselves to the degree or in the way we are hyper-aware about ourselves.
Also, it is probably a self defensive thing to not connect with everyone so easily. Otherwise we'd be killed by our own empathy. I don't feel guilty about the detached part of me. I've learned that when the heart is needed, it will make it's appearance in a big way.
Aw. I think you're right. Now I feel kind of warm and fuzzy...you're like a ray of sunshine, Reeb! :-*
I'm going to brown you up for summer.
Quote from: Jaimey on April 21, 2008, 07:44:15 PM
That's it. I vote we create an androgyne dating service and make it easier on everyone. :-*
I prefer a fig service :laugh:
I also can't do small talk.
Z
So about that dating service...
Well for a small fee - a service charge really - I could hook you up.
I cannot even imagine how difficult an androgyne dating site would be to get loaded with people.
It would be easier to get a site going that covered everyone and their quirks and let it go from there.
Building it is not difficult though (couple of hours at most).
Having been thru this issue it is very tough for the androgyne. We are comfortable sitting on the sidelines and tend to let love slip by.
My suggestion is to get involved in some kind of activity that will expose you to the possibility of meeting someone that might be in your own groove - volunteer at the SPCA, etc. - this puts you in close proximity with people that share your interests in a non-threatening setting, and allows you to get to know someone that might turn out to be a special someone.
Quote from: riven_one on April 22, 2008, 10:25:46 PM
My suggestion is to get involved in some kind of activity that will expose you to the possibility of meeting someone that might be in your own groove - volunteer at the SPCA, etc. - this puts you in close proximity with people that share your interests in a non-threatening setting, and allows you to get to know someone that might turn out to be a special someone.
Just make sure you don't get stuck with a dog.
:)
Quote from: Rebis on April 21, 2008, 08:40:52 PM
I'm going to brown you up for summer.
Could you start on my right side? Because my driving arm is getting quite tan...
And what's SPCA?
SPCA
Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
they used to be famous until PETA stole all the glory.
Quote from: tekla on April 22, 2008, 11:19:20 AM
So about that dating service...
Well for a small fee - a service charge really - I could hook you up.
sounds good
can i leave payment until I have met someone through you ???
Quote from: Rebis on April 23, 2008, 09:11:07 AM
Quote from: riven_one on April 22, 2008, 10:25:46 PM
My suggestion is to get involved in some kind of activity that will expose you to the possibility of meeting someone that might be in your own groove - volunteer at the SPCA, etc. - this puts you in close proximity with people that share your interests in a non-threatening setting, and allows you to get to know someone that might turn out to be a special someone.
Just make sure you don't get stuck with a dog.
:)
;D
Quote from: Rebis on April 23, 2008, 07:39:12 PM
SPCA
Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
they used to be famous until PETA stole all the glory.
Stupid PETA. ;D
Well the SPCA came out of mistreatment of horses in large cities. They did not want you to be mean to the horse, but its was cool with them if you ate the cow. PETA, who knows what they are up to this week. They are good at PR, and the basic argument is very interesting.
Several of you claimed not to be able to make small talk. On my computer, small talk is defined as "polite conversation about unimportant or uncontroversial matters, esp. as engaged in on social occasions." "Small talk is conversation for its own sake..."
It has been my observation that those very people hold their own on this forum, dishing out witty small talk with the best. All the puns, marshmallow chicks, and Play Doh talk could fall into this category. And the talk about New Hampshire snow, you who lived in igloos over the winter.
Forgive me for being five conversations behind. Some say I have no social skills.
Have a nice day,
S
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 27, 2008, 09:29:26 PM
Forgive me for being five conversations behind.
Did you think we would notice a change in the topic, direction or reverting to an older one as something out of the norm?
We have standards to meet, glad to see you doing your share.
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 27, 2008, 09:29:26 PM
Several of you claimed not to be able to make small talk. On my computer, small talk is defined as "polite conversation about unimportant or uncontroversial matters, esp. as engaged in on social occasions." "Small talk is conversation for its own sake..."
It has been my observation that those very people hold their own on this forum, dishing out witty small talk with the best. All the puns, marshmallow chicks, and Play Doh talk could fall into this category. And the talk about New Hampshire snow, you who lived in igloos over the winter.
Forgive me for being five conversations behind. Some say I have no social skills.
Have a nice day,
S
See, as a newbie I observed this in my "androgyne = witty?" thread. I don't see the same witty threads in other sections of this board. I believe that many of you have some conversational skills that are above normal, but you lock up in threatening social situations (been there and done that myself, I completely understand). Hence my suggestion to meet people in non-threatening social situations, it is a lot easier to just be yourself and in many cases just being yourself is attractive to other people in the same setting (believe it or not).
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 27, 2008, 09:29:26 PM
Several of you claimed not to be able to make small talk. On my computer, small talk is defined as "polite conversation about unimportant or uncontroversial matters, esp. as engaged in on social occasions." "Small talk is conversation for its own sake..."
It has been my observation that those very people hold their own on this forum, dishing out witty small talk with the best. All the puns, marshmallow chicks, and Play Doh talk could fall into this category. And the talk about New Hampshire snow, you who lived in igloos over the winter.
OK Simone, you've caught us in the act :embarrassed: Of course, this is social interaction through a computer screen... in a room with real live people who I don't know I talk to the potted plants by the wall ;)
Z
I'm becoming accustomed to speaking to humans rather than pot plants.
::)
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
I'm becoming accustomed to speaking to humans rather than pot plants.
We could always smoke them ;)
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 10:03:10 PM
OK Simone, you've caught us in the act :embarrassed: Of course, this is social interaction through a computer screen... in a room with real live people who I don't know I talk to the potted plants by the wall ;)
Z
Yep, big difference.
I'm not so sure about the plants, I never could get a reaction out of them, they don't even respond to a good joke. I make it a rule not to associate with them.
Actually, if give me something to talk about I'm fine, it's getting started I find the extremely difficult. Get me going and I can be a chatterbox, especially if I warm up to you.
Yeah - I'm like this all the time. My social trouble the fact that I feel I'm doing what I'm doing in a bubble. I do my thing, I gabber and jabber and gibber, I make links between things, I play. And no one really joins in.
Quote from: sd on April 27, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
Actually, if give me something to talk about I'm fine, it's getting started I find the extremely difficult. Get me going and I can be a chatterbox, especially if I warm up to you.
I'm shy and won't generally initiate conversations with strangers, however if someone gets me talking, look out, I can go on and on and on and................. ;D
Z
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
I'm becoming accustomed to speaking to humans rather than pot plants.
Ah, but how can you be sure I'm not a rhododendron?
Nfr
Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 28, 2008, 08:25:45 AM
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
I'm becoming accustomed to speaking to humans rather than pot plants.
Ah, but how can you be sure I'm not a rhododendron?
Nfr
You speak very good English for a rhododendron ;)
Z
Perhaps that's just the wind fluttering my leaves too close to a keyboard.
Nfr
Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
I'm becoming accustomed to speaking to humans rather than pot plants.
We could always smoke them ;)
Z
I am opposed to smoking humans--on moral grounds--and suggest you smoke salmon instead.
S
Quote from: Simone Louise on April 28, 2008, 10:00:03 AM
Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
I'm becoming accustomed to speaking to humans rather than pot plants.
We could always smoke them ;)
Z
I am opposed to smoking humans--on moral grounds--and suggest you smoke salmon instead.
S
LOL, I just knew that someone would think I meant smoking humans instead of plants when I typed that :D Luckily androgynes can find the middle ground though, smoked salmon is a fine choice. ;D
Z
Pink fleshy smoked salmons.
Quote from: sd on April 27, 2008, 10:41:57 PM
Actually, if give me something to talk about I'm fine, it's getting started I find the extremely difficult. Get me going and I can be a chatterbox, especially if I warm up to you.
That's me to a T! I can't initiate conversation. Not only that, but often times, I'm happy enough off in my own little world. I get uncomfortable around people that you can't sit in silence with. I don't have to talk all the time (though I will, if you get me started).
The biggest difference between the small talk we have and small talk in person is that I CARE about you all and I'm not forcing conversation. Plus, when we're talking about marshmallow p**ps and things like that, I think the humor and wit that we have is comforting, relaxing, and freeing for us. Small talk with a stranger is nothing but stressful for me. That's what I mean by being bad at small talk.
Quote from: Rebis on April 28, 2008, 11:49:32 AM
Pink fleshy smoked salmons.
Salmon is a pretty crayon.