I was thinking the other day that I've learned so much about GID/TS and there are
so many misconceptions I've had even having dealt with GID for a long time. The
general public is so much worse.
My biggest was that you could not be TS if you were not attracted to people
of your birth sex. It was very confusing to me for a long time to feel female but also
be attracted to females. I really did not know what to think for the longest.
Anyway here are some of the others I think the general public has:
We are sex offenders and child molesters (could not be further from the truth)
TS is a mental illness
TS is a lifestyle choice (this one ticks me off)
TS's get sexual gratification from dressing/appearing like women.
All TS's have female hobbies/jobs.
TS's are all sex crazed TS prostitutes, like they see in Porn.
Tell me your's!
Amanda
The #1 question I got asked when I came out to people was, "so you're gay then, right?"
Which is a really tricky question to answer, lol. "Well no..."
"So you like girls?"
"Well, no, but that's not the point..."
"So you're gay then?"
Sigh. But I think that's the #1 misconception: that we get more and more gay until we fall off the end of the scale and figure we might as well transition. Hence why I don't like being stuffed under the TG Umbrella, or within any sort of gender "spectrum."
I know we read about the other things (we're pedophiles, sex addicts, in it for the clothes, mentally ill, "gender confused," etc.) in the news stories around here. But I don't think they're the norm, they're just sensationalistic so they get noticed. In Real Life, I haven't encountered any of that.
Well, except for one person who instantly assumed I was getting together with other TSs every night to do drugs and have sex with one another in some sort of sordid TS subculture. He thought chicken pock scars on my arm were needle track marks, that I had my front teeth veneers because meth had worn them away, etc. The insane thing is he's known me for a decade, and knows how prudish I am, so I don't get how he could think that of me. THAT hurt.
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on March 31, 2008, 12:04:18 PM
The #1 question I got asked when I came out to people was, "so you're gay then, right?"
BINGO!
My ex claimed I decieved her and not only divorced me immediately, but also had the marriage anulled.
And let's not forget the roll of the media! Julia Serano explains that here:
http://www.juliaserano.com/outside.html#skirt->-bleeped-<-s
OH! Almost forgot. The public always assumes that ALL people born transsexual are "men" (male-to-females). And they also almost always assume that we're pre-op.
And they also believe transition is something we decide to do at the drop of a hat.
And they seem to always think we're lying about our feelings (history of dysphoria).
And they don't understand that sex and gender are two different things.
And lastly, as I wrote a newpaper reporter the other day:
QuoteOur media image has come a long way in the last several years and I am quite thankful for that. After all it allowed me to transition on the job. Something that would have been impossible 10 years ago. However, the public still has a lot of catching up to do. For example ABC News has lots of great information on it's website. However, you should read some of the comments left by many readers. It's shocking to see how close-minded many people are, prejudice is alive and well in the USA. I specifically would ask you to read the comments on the story about the pregnant trans man at the ABC website. You might say they just need to be educated, but I tell you it goes way beyond that. Prejudice prevents these people from learning and these people are also completely blind to their own prejudice. It's illogical and irrational, but it happens. I have personally experienced shunning from some family members and a total loss of integrity in the eyes of many of my co-workers. As you can imagine this is totally frustrating and causes a lot of pain. And this is the story the media doesn't tell, that the way we are treated for this birth condition says more about our society than it does about us. The problem isn't us, the problem is America still has major hang-ups when dealing with anything related to gender or sexuality.
We still have a LONG way to go.
Hi,
That what we are doing is wrong, that is why some people don't accept you.
Sarah
Not sure what you are saying.... what are we doing wrong?
Here it seems to be the classic "ah, so you are a man" misconception and being generally clueless.
From a doctor's visit few weeks ago:
T: So I would like to get progesterone to add to my current HRT regime that the university hospital is prescribing me but they don't like progesterone since they have no experience with it.
D: So what are they giving to you?
T: Androcur at Xmg and Estradiol at Ymg.
D: That androcur sounds quite high, how does it affect menstruation for you?
T: Well I don't really menstruate since I am trans.
D: So they are stopping the menstruation cycle?
T: No. I don't have ovaries or womb so there is no cycle.
D: How is that?
T: Well I'm transitioning from male to female.
D: Oh, so you are a man?
T: *headdesk*
T: No, not really. So could you prescribe progesterone?
D: Well if you think it will help you. Do you want an examination first?
T: Not really necessary I think.
D: ok. *writes the prescription*
D: have a nice day
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 31, 2008, 12:56:51 PM
Not sure what you are saying.... what are we doing wrong?
Hi,
That's my point, we're not doing anything wrong but people think we are.
Sarah
Oh... yea I see, it's their perception that we must be doing something wrong... fear
of the unknown maybe.
Amanda
That they can't see a reason why we would do this since they can't see it in themselves.
Quote from: Beyond on March 31, 2008, 12:32:04 PM
And let's not forget the roll of the media! Julia Serano explains that here:
http://www.juliaserano.com/outside.html#skirt->-bleeped-<-s
That link sums up everything for me. I love how she explained "the "deceptive" transsexual or the "pathetic" transsexual"
Society is too uneducated, and they may catch up in a 100 years from now. Until they unlock the secrets of the brain there is little hope and it would be best for me I think to be "deceptive" and keep my mouth shut.
The thing I take from that piece in that we are not very far removed from what a lot
of men consider women and that is as "sex objects" and the media is taking advantage
of that for ratings.
Is there a blurring of the lines for the public between someone who feels they are female and
dresses accordingly and crossdressers or ->-bleeped-<-s who dress as women because that feels
good to them but are happy to be men?
That this is a 'sin'. ::)
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 31, 2008, 11:44:10 AM
TS's get sexual gratification from dressing/appearing like women.
oddly enough another misconception is that only Male born people are transsexuals. Otherwise, I'd have to rough you up for not using the term "appearing like men or women"
Dunno, the ones everybody's listed here are pretty complete. I can't really think of any to add.
~Simone,
I was an extra in Clueless.
Quote from: Beyond on March 31, 2008, 12:32:04 PM
OH! Almost forgot. The public always assumes that ALL people born transsexual are "men" (male-to-females). And they also almost always assume that we're pre-op.
And if we're not pre-op, that we've "mutilated" our bodies.
Also, they persist in believing that we are our birth sex, regardless of having transitioned, and use wrong pronouns to describe us.
And that we have a Trans Agenda to recruit children, take over the world and destroy Christianity ::)
Well, I gotta get back to work now, taking over the world is a big job >:D
Z
Quote from: Rebis on March 31, 2008, 02:43:10 PM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 31, 2008, 11:44:10 AM
TS's get sexual gratification from dressing/appearing like women.
oddly enough another misconception is that only Male born people are transsexuals. Otherwise, I'd have to rough you up for not using the term "appearing like men or women"
LOL... actually that was a self-centered TS not thinking when she was
typing mistake :)
That for M2Fs, the driving goal is The Surgery. Probably the #2 question I was always asked was "so when's your surgery?"
They seem to assume that a transition is something you can manage in a week or two. You "decide" to transition over the weekend, make a few calls during the week to schedule surgery, and tada! They're completely unaware of the hoops we have to jump through, the year of RLT, the year(s) of clearances and approvals and evaluations we need.
Heck, my coworker asked me the other day... I bless her soul, I love her dearly, she's SO nice to me, but... she asked me about SRS, "so you're just in the hospital for a day, right? It's an outpatient procedure, isn't it?"
:o
They have no concept of the tens of thousands of dollars for therapy, electro/laser and surgeries, let alone the TIME involved in this whole process. I have to laugh whenever this bigots call us "insane." I mean geez, have THEY been evaluated through years of therapy and psych evaluations for mental and emotional stability? Have THEY been put through the emotional trials of a transition - and come out the other side safely?
By the time we're done this, I don't know of anyone who's body, mind and emotions have been stripped SO bare, examined from every possible angle by various "specialists..."
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on March 31, 2008, 03:08:00 PM
That for M2Fs, the driving goal is The Surgery. Probably the #2 question I was always asked was "so when's your surgery?"
YEAH! Half my family was asking: "Has he (sic) had the operation?" None of them were even aware about the hormones and therapy and all the rest tha goes along with it. They all just assume you go, have the opp, and live as a woman henceforth.
Yay! I added one to the list!
~Simone,
These taglines of mine are getting old now. I'm going beddie-bye.
YAY Simone!
Kate... if it were as easy and cheap as everyone thinks it is maybe there would be more of us :)
Amanda
Still wondering if Simone was really an extra in Clueless...
'Deceptive' and 'pathetic' TSes are the ONLY kind. And by our very existences we are all 'deceptive.' Yes, it's a media thing. And even the best (Oprah, Montel) of those who actually do have the time and energy and will to help spread a bit more positive aspect of our lives often start with the make-up room. (Yes, Serano points-out all of that in a number of her writings.)
I think the question is why the media does it. My guess is that they do it for the very good reason that prejudice and ignorance are more highly prized than are education and the time and effort it takes someone to get that.
Heck, most people are not particularly interested in 'understanding' us in the first place. They have their own concerns and as long as they determine to their satisfactions that none of the 'deceptives' have ever gone to bed with them, or, more likely, since no one has ever told them that someone they have been to bed with was TS, they don't worry overly much about it.
The old chestnut "as long as they do what they do and don't flaunt it in front of me" attitude toward gays applies as well to us. That has changed somewhat for many of the GP, but still is an alive and well kind of 'toleration' many USA folk live by when it comes to gays and lesbians.
What's behind that? The fear of difference and the dislike of having cherished 'truths' defied and made to seem not-so-true-after-all. And that is the basic difficulty they have with every stripe in the gender-rainbow except for two.
People can see, and inspect if they must, penises and vaginas. Thus, boy and girl. Any sense that the world and our lives are any more complicated than that becomes very problematic. Shoot, just take a look at the virulence of the very fundamentalist among the HBS-ers, and many who are not very fundamentalist at all.
I AM a man or woman. That my genitalia and chromosomes don't match that statement is a medical problem. We struggle within our groupings with the very same questions that the GP struggles with. At least many of us have some experience of living the difficulties and have a major advantage over those that don't when it comes to understanding. Yet, even at that we still involve ourselves with the hating and dismissing of one another to bolster an individual's sense of who he or she is.
The crux is validity and the sneaking suspicion that if I am valid in my womanhood and I live that and understand that in a way that you decline to live and understand your own, that you somehow invalidate my sense of self.
If we can find ways to accept, not just tolerate, one another, then we can perhaps toss out some virulent criticisms of the ignorant GP and the media who feed that ignorance. But, in our quests to 'prove' our own validity we deny that same validity to others. Then we see Anne Lawrence making common cause with Willow Arune and Blanchard and Bailey as an example. Or Cathryn Platine and Sue Robbins joining with Janice Raymond to deny the validity of TS in general.
Of course, Cathy and Sue will be shocked to discover that no amount of joining will ameliorate the very basic edge being honed by Raymond and other 'radical lesbians.' That argument is truly about 'essential' qualities of sex-differences and 'learned' qualities. The BBL stuff is about misogyny on the part of the messires B&B and their profound lack of understanding about how anyone could want to be the subordinate gender when they have the equipment to be the dominant one. These are all atavistic reactions that go way beyond the rational facades that all of these groups want to place over their real concern: fear.
Why would anyone expect the media and the GP to be any different?
Nichole
I don't think people want to live open and honestly and TS represent everything they are too afraid to do for themselves. I have never met another person that was so honest and open about everything as a TS. People live in rigid societies produced boxes and fear keeps them in there. I'm sure there are a few that really don't have any issues, could care less, but for the most part, most people are more concerned with how they look, and what people think of them.
You will never get the level of honesty that TS give, out of non TS folk. I also think its an IQ level thing and the ability to think and reason beyond what you know. There is nobody that scans every cell of their brain like a TS before transition. Every dark corner is researched and filleted out under a microscope for examination before caving into a faith filled leap into the unknown. Not many people examine themselves nor need to. I know my mind races so hard on some days that I am actually tired. People cannot appreciate how much effort I have put into the day. I may not have walked 10 ft but I worked ten times harder than people around me just in keeping my issue at bay not to mention all my daily routine of work, kids, house.
I'm beginning to understand why its possible to find happiness after transition. 99% of my resourses are used in transitional thoughts. If I could free that energy and resourses up for other things.....I cannot imagine what I could accomplish in life.
Anyhow...most people I know seem very immature, young, and totally incapable of every hoping to understand what a real TS is and what they go through. As long as there are she-males, cross dressers and ->-bleeped-<-s and TS under that same transgender umbrella, TS will be confused in that same group and treated as gay men that just want sex or however society wants to view them.
I don't have anything against the others under that umbrella...I'm just not one of them and have no idea why I'm there.
Quote from: Lori on March 31, 2008, 04:35:53 PM
I don't think people want to live open and honestly and TS represent everything they are too afraid to do for themselves. I have never met another person that was so honest and open about everything as a TS. People live in rigid societies produced boxes and fear keeps them in there. I'm sure there are a few that really don't have any issues, could care less, but for the most part, most people are more concerned with how they look, and what people think of them.
You will never get the level of honesty that TS give, out of non TS folk. I also think its an IQ level thing and the ability to think and reason beyond what you know. There is nobody that scans every cell of their brain like a TS before transition. Every dark corner is researched and filleted out under a microscope for examination before caving into a faith filled leap into the unknown. Not many people examine themselves nor need to. I know my mind races so hard on some days that I am actually tired. People cannot appreciate how much effort I have put into the day. I may not have walked 10 ft but I worked ten times harder than people around me just in keeping my issue at bay not to mention all my daily routine of work, kids, house.
I'm beginning to understand why its possible to find happiness after transition. 99% of my recourses are used in transitional thoughts. If I could free that energy and recourses up for other things.....I cannot imagine what I could accomplish in life.
Anyhow...most people I know seem very immature, young, and totally incapable of every hoping to understand what a real TS is and what they go through. As long as there are she-males, cross dressers and ->-bleeped-<-s and TS under that same transgender umbrella, TS will be confused in that same group and treated as gay men that just want sex or however society wants to view them.
I don't have anything against the others under that umbrella...I'm just not one of them and have no idea why I'm there.
Wow... well said and very true!
Quote99% of my recourses are used in transitional thoughts
I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem. :)
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 31, 2008, 06:00:01 PM
Wow... well said and very true!
Quote99% of my recourses are used in transitional thoughts
I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem. :)
And one day I'll be able to spell "resources" as well when I'm not using them all for this TS thing :icon_rolleyes2:
Well, we have a thread "myths in the community that need to die a quick death"
It caused a heated debate in the past, but here it is anyway... >:D
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,22906.0.html
tink :icon_chick:
That I am dying to talk about my genitals, life, hormones and reproductive choices. After that it would be that FTMs don't exist and so I must want to be a woman and I just do a really bad job at it. I guess the one that drives me nuts the most "how do you know"?
trannboy
Quote from: Lori on March 31, 2008, 08:06:57 PM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 31, 2008, 06:00:01 PM
Wow... well said and very true!
Quote99% of my recourses are used in transitional thoughts
I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem. :)
And one day I'll be able to spell "resources" as well when I'm not using them all for this TS thing :icon_rolleyes2:
...and I might one day read closely enough to notice someone misspell resources :)
Posted on: April 01, 2008, 10:13:08 AM
Quote from: Tink on March 31, 2008, 08:11:40 PM
Well, we have a thread "myths in the community that need to die a quick death"
It caused a heated debate in the past, but here it is anyway... >:D
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,22906.0.html
tink :icon_chick:
Thanks Tink, I suspect that every topic that I have an interest in has been debated many times over here at Susans... I should
search more :) Some of you must get so tired of the same old questions.... I'm so sorry :)
YEah, discussed many times.
But, ranting is good for the soul ;) or not :D
My biggest peave is that when I tell somebody, or they find out because
I had to tell them for whatever reason, they allways act like off course
they knew or had doubts when I know for sure that its not the case.
Its like a MTF is obvious and we are delusional to even think we can
"pull it off"... Off course, a good looking MTF is unthinkable to them...
Quote from: Keira on April 01, 2008, 12:20:07 PM
Off course, a good looking MTF is unthinkable to them...
Ya don't even have to go that far, Keira. An MTF that looks pleasant, average, pretty, cute or even plain is generally pretty unthinkable for many people, some TSes as well I would imagine.
I really don't think most people expect anything but 'man in a dress.' Even with Candis Cane on prime-time tv in USA.
N~
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 10:45:47 AM
Thanks Tink, I suspect that every topic that I have an interest in has been debated many times over here at Susans... I should
search more :) Some of you must get so tired of the same old questions.... I'm so sorry :)
I am. But it's not your fault so you don't have to apologize. :)
I think it's a good issue to go through for people who haven't been clubbed over the head by it. There are other issues too that you might discover that the rest of us burnt out on.
I think there are enough new people to start up the fires again. People can't get to know each other any better than by arguing endlessly over some crazy idea. >:D
Just, everyone should remember to be polite and it's okay if others disagree with you. no one knows everything and most of what we think we know is just gibberish and opinions. In my opinion.
And another one: "So you and you're wife aren't married anymore, right?"
INSTANT assumption whenever I'd tell someone. Either that we split up, are about to, or HAD to since transitioning nullified the marriage.
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on April 01, 2008, 12:37:33 PM
And another one: "So you and you're wife aren't married anymore, right?"
O.
So you guys are still married?
*runs, slamming door*
QuoteThere are other issues too that you might discover that the rest of us burnt out on.
I think there are enough new people to start up the fires again.
:icon_burn:
That's probably true. Besides, Reebs gets antsy for action when we mods have no 'bouncer' duties to perform.
She's such a macho-girl!!
N~
Quote from: Nichole on April 01, 2008, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Kate on April 01, 2008, 12:37:33 PM
And another one: "So you and you're wife aren't married anymore, right?"
O.
So you guys are still married?
*runs, slamming door*
say there, Kate, does this mean your wife is available?
*runs even faster*
Quote from: Rebis on April 01, 2008, 12:51:01 PM
say there, Kate, does this mean your wife is available?
*runs even faster*
See what I mean? Always spoiling for mayhem and madness!!
N~
Quote
Just, everyone should remember to be polite and it's okay if others disagree with you. no one knows everything and most of what we think we know is just gibberish and opinions. In my opinion.
LOL... at least your open an honest with your opinions :)
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 12:52:23 PM
at least your open an honest with your opinions :)
What opinions, getting anything more than a match & lighter fluid from Rebis is a very rare occurrence.
N~
Cool... is this about to be a fight? :) I wanna watch :)
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 01:01:09 PM
Cool... is this about to be a fight? :) I wanna watch :)
Dream on, Mandy. Rebis and I are secretly lovers. ... um ... well, we were. :angel:
Quote from: Nichole on April 01, 2008, 12:54:42 PM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 12:52:23 PM
at least your open an honest with your opinions :)
What opinions, getting anything more than a match & lighter fluid from Rebis is a very rare occurrence.
N~
I don't get it, but if it involves burning traditions, I'm in.
Posted on: April 01, 2008, 01:03:39 PM
Quote from: Nichole on April 01, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 01:01:09 PM
Cool... is this about to be a fight? :) I wanna watch :)
Dream on, Mandy. Rebis and I are secretly lovers. ... um ... well, we were. :angel:
yeah. We were until Nichole's partner started reading what she was writing. :embarrassed:
I can't fight. If you scowl at me, I'll lay down and whimper
Quote from: Rebis on April 01, 2008, 01:05:43 PM
If you scowl at me, I'll lay down and whimper
Hie thee to the "Kinks" thread, wench!! :laugh:
N~
I wish I were a wench. Then I could wear those pretty peasant dresses. heh heh
Quote from: Rebis on April 01, 2008, 01:10:01 PM
I wish I were a wench. Then I could wear those pretty peasant dresses. heh heh
Hey!!! :icon_boxing: Not if you're going to be slipping around to see me you aren't!! That's MY prerogative!!
N~
believe me. You're too classy a woman to want to see me. But, I'm willing to give it a shot! :)
Quote from: Nichole on April 01, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 01:01:09 PM
Cool... is this about to be a fight? :) I wanna watch :)
Dream on, Mandy. Rebis and I are secretly lovers. ... um ... well, we were. :angel:
OK... if you're lovers... I'll watch that too :) .... did I just type that??? Humm... sry that was
my lustful boy side talking :) LOL.
Sometimes, a person's love is so great, that it demands the attention of a crowd.
Quote from: Kate on March 31, 2008, 12:04:18 PM
The #1 question I got asked when I came out to people was, "so you're gay then, right?"
In your case, the correct answer is, "No, I'm a straight female."
I think I'll step out of the topic Rebis... lol... I have a few comments for that... but I should
just walk away.... just walk away Amanda :)
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 01:29:50 PM
I think I'll step out of the topic Rebis... lol... I have a few comments for that... but I should
just walk away.... just walk away Amanda :)
sounds like a song.
just walk away, amanda [la la la]
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 01:16:13 PM
Quote from: Nichole on April 01, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 01:01:09 PM
Cool... is this about to be a fight? :) I wanna watch :)
Dream on, Mandy. Rebis and I are secretly lovers. ... um ... well, we were. :angel:
OK... if you're lovers... I'll watch that too :) .... did I just type that??? Humm... sry that was
my lustful boy side talking :) LOL.
If we were, no, you wouldn't.
N~
It should be my theme song these days.... lol... my new found freedom
of expression since starting hrt has gotten me into trouble. I need to
learn to shut up :)
Amanda
There are so many, but the two biggest misconceptions that I've had to deal with both involve my sexuality. The first one is that you obviously have to be gay. It seems that people have a very difficult time distinguishing between homosexuality & transexuality. The second is that you want to be a woman so that you can be with men. When I tell them that I'm still attracted to women as a woman, they look at me as if I have a third eye. :o Go Figure!!!
Donna
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 01, 2008, 01:36:15 PM
It should be my theme song these days.... lol... my new found freedom
of expression since starting hrt has gotten me into trouble. I need to
learn to shut up :)
Amanda
Oh gods yeah. This is turning out to be rather a new, novel and slightly destructive twist as well. Luckily I haven't been beaten up. Yet.
~Simone,
Sass-parilla Sundae.
... Groan. That was just ... BAD. And most likely spelled wrong as well. GO TO BED!
Quote from: Nichole on April 01, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
Dream on, Mandy. Rebis and I are secretly lovers. ... um ... well, we were. :angel:
Wow, some grrrls have all the luck ;)
Z
Posted on: April 01, 2008, 11:41:30 PM
Quote from: Rebis on April 01, 2008, 01:10:01 PM
I wish I were a wench. Then I could wear those pretty peasant dresses. heh heh
So darling, wear 'em anyway!
Z
Yeah, I really hate the one about "So you're just so gay you go ahead and turned into a woman."
That you can never be who you are because you weren't born with the body for it.
Like in this one class they were teaching about how we have the medical technology to allow for complete transition. This one guy made the comment, "Well I hope we can tell the real ones from the fake ones, because that's just gross."
I wanted to smack him...
Oh, and about those peasant skirts, you go ahead and wear them, but I'm more of a jeans and T-shirt fan myself.
Re: What are the biggest misconceptions that the public has about US?
That all transsexuals are weird or may look weird...
What are the biggest misconceptions that the public has about US?
Number One -- That cissexual people do NOT have gender identities simply because their bodies and their gender identities conform.
Nichole
what? I didn't hear that. ::)
Quote from: Nichole on April 02, 2008, 10:17:20 PM
Number One --
How do you really feel about this Nichole?? ;)
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 11:42:45 AM
How do you really feel about this Nichole?? ;)
Z
Actually, Z, I really don't think that's very important at all. Why? Did I seem vested in that answer?
N~
Quote from: Nichole on April 03, 2008, 12:35:52 PM
Actually, Z, I really don't think that's very important at all. Why? Did I seem vested in that answer?
N~
I just thought you might have a strong opinion, what with the 50 pt font :laugh:
Anyway, I think it's very true that cisgender people can have gender issues too, particularly women.
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Nichole on April 03, 2008, 12:35:52 PM
Actually, Z, I really don't think that's very important at all. Why? Did I seem vested in that answer?
N~
I just thought you might have a strong opinion, what with the 50 pt font :laugh:
Anyway, I think it's very true that cisgender people can have gender issues too, particularly women.
Z
yeah, but I think Nichole is saying that most cisgendered people have no concrete knowledge or experience of their gender identity. They can't understand gender issues because to them, it's a natural non-issue.
I think I think I think
Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Nichole on April 03, 2008, 12:35:52 PM
Actually, Z, I really don't think that's very important at all. Why? Did I seem vested in that answer?
N~
I just thought you might have a strong opinion, what with the 50 pt font :laugh:
Anyway, I think it's very true that cisgender people can have gender issues too, particularly women.
Z
yeah, but I think Nichole is saying that most cisgendered people have no concrete knowledge or experience of their gender identity. They can't understand gender issues because to them, it's a natural non-issue.
I think I think I think
Could that be related to the notion that some women supposedly have 'penis envy'?
Quote from: Kate on March 31, 2008, 03:08:00 PM
That for M2Fs, the driving goal is The Surgery. Probably the #2 question I was always asked was "so when's your surgery?"
Yes I agree, that's a big misconception that needs to be addressed.
And Taru, My head hit the desk with you.. that guy was a little weird.. ::)
The two most common things I run across,
Are one, two assume I assume that I am still a guy, and two,
To think that my next step is surgery.
I agree with Nichole, however
they having a gender Identity is a bit out of most peoples ballpark for the moment..
Those are the biggest things.
Yes, the "lifestyle choice" opinion really gets me off, though not as much as it used too.
Most people here understand that it is different from being gay, but a lot of them still don't get it.
May need some more time..
Oh well.. :)
-Sara
Quote from: Zythyra on April 03, 2008, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Nichole on April 03, 2008, 12:35:52 PM
Actually, Z, I really don't think that's very important at all. Why? Did I seem vested in that answer?
N~
I just thought you might have a strong opinion, what with the 50 pt font :laugh:
Anyway, I think it's very true that cisgender people can have gender issues too, particularly women.
Z
It was 70 pt. font when I started out!! See how much I calmed down before I posted?!! :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Rebis on April 03, 2008, 03:14:07 PM
yeah, but I think Nichole is saying that most cisgendered people have no concrete knowledge or experience of their gender identity. They can't understand gender issues because to them, it's a natural non-issue.
I think I think I think
Give Rebis a very gold star. *A huge hug as I jump around in excitement!* Ze has it down. Cissexuals do NOT THINK (I should leave it there, shouldn't I? :laugh: ) that they have gender identities because since their bodies and identities match, well ... it's just "natural" that they have no gender identity -- they simply have a gender. (Recall the debates over whether or not blacks had souls that raged through western circles at the height of the slave-trade to Europe and the Americas and during the extended abolitionist-fights.) Another "difference" that some people wanted to make between themselves and the people they were oppressing and denigrating. It's what we do when we wish to justify our own heartlessness and ignorance -- we make ourselves seem to be "right."
Cissexuals have no gender identity in their own minds. Because of the congruence between their bodies and their internal sense of their own sex they have no gender identity troubles.
Ergo they deny they have a gender identity or an internal/psychic sense of their own sex. But, if something were to change that neat balance they'd be us.
Quote from: buttercup on April 03, 2008, 03:40:57 PM
Could that be related to the notion that some women supposedly have 'penis envy'?
Sorta related, but only in the sense that chaff is related to milled flour -- they come from the same plant.
Penis envy is an otherwise unfounded notion that perpetuates a very misogynistic view of human existence. The only people who might have penis envy are 1) men who were originally identified by a doctor as 'female' and 2) males who feel they got shorted.
Otherwise, I cannot imagine a female wanting to have a penis. I mean look at me and other transwomen. The most terrible thing we do is to invert the penis in order to have a body-image congruent with our internal sex. That we would wish to do such a thing MUST mean that we are somehow unbalanced, mentally-ill. And some women are mentally-ill, but that particular desire and activity is not what makes them so. It says nothing about mental health or illness at all except that as a means to alleviate/end our body dysphoria & also alleviate depression, anxiety and some of the personality disorders that are growths from the body/mind/soul incongruence it works very well.
Penis envy is another sleight-of-hand that for awhile was an acceptable argument of the patriarchy to discount the true experiences of girls and women. I personally know far more men who are fascinated with and fixated on penises AND vaginas than I do women who are fixated on either. (And that is not a reference to sexuality.)
N~
Quote from: Nichole on April 03, 2008, 07:44:17 PM
It was 70 pt. font when I started out!! See how much I calmed down before I posted?!! :laugh: :laugh:
Oh, OK ;)
QuoteGive Rebis a very gold star. *A huge hug as I jump around in excitement!* Ze has it down. Cissexuals do NOT THINK (I should leave it there, shouldn't I? :laugh: ) that they have gender identities because since their bodies and identities match, well ... it's just "natural" that they have no gender identity -- they simply have a gender. (Recall the debates over whether or not blacks had souls that raged through western circles at the height of the slave-trade to Europe and the Americas and during the extended abolitionist-fights.) Another "difference" that some people wanted to make between themselves and the people they were oppressing and denigrating. It's what we do when we wish to justify our own heartlessness and ignorance -- we make ourselves seem to be "right."
Cissexuals have no gender identity in their own minds. Because of the congruence between their bodies and their internal sense of their own sex they have no gender identity troubles. Ergo they deny they have a gender identity or an internal/psychic sense of their own sex. But, if something were to change that neat balance they'd be us.
My partner isn't transgender or androgyne, however sie has often talked of hir feelings of not relating to hir birth gender. I think plenty of people, particularly in the queer community, feel some incongruence of their gender, but not anywhere as intensely as some of us. Maybe regular cis-people don't feel that. Perhaps my partner isn't the best example, after all, sie is w/ me ;D
Zythyra
Quote from: buttercup on April 03, 2008, 03:40:57 PM
Could that be related to the notion that some women supposedly have 'penis envy'?
I don't know. I don't envy my penis in any way.
:P
Not that I even know what it is to be a woman, or a man, or a tablecloth :-\
Re: What are the biggest misconceptions that the public has about US?
The worst misconceptions that the public has about US are that they will judge you before they have actually seen what you look, sound like or present yourself before they have even met you. Their misconceptions are also in their head that you will probably look like a bloke in drag as you are down as a transsexual. But this isn't always the case but that is the public perception of a transsexual.
I usually take people by surprise if I speak to them on the telephone and they don't get a male voice....and I take them by surprise at appointments where they have no idea I'm transsexual...and are looking for someone else..