Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi All,

I would like to know how others see transition for themselves. So I just thought I would post this poll.

Peace,

Taylor

PS if I had another choice I could have placed in here it would have been OTHER. 

Hi Taylor,
I chose "Changing my body to fit the sex I am."
That's how I feel about it.
I feel that whether or not I transition, nothing's going to change the fact that I have GID, nothing's going to change the fact that my mind is in the wrong body.
So, I can either transition or forever lead a miserable existence.
Really good question, man, makes people think.
Nero

I am still enjoy being a CD.

Alice

Transition consists of, and is complete when one is satisfied with where they are at. That can be anywhere from just accepting who they are and not crossdressing or making any changes at all. Or to the other extreme of clothing style, HRT, and any of several forms of surgery.

In other words it isn't so much what you do that constitutes transition, but what you accept as comfortable enough to make you feel complete. Transition is an undefinable procedure that varies widely among those in the transsexual community.

"Correcting my body to fit my the sex I am" with the stipulation that it reads "Correcting my body to fit my the gender I am".

Quote from: Sandi on May 30, 2006, 10:29:42 PM...it isn't so much what you do that constitutes transition, but what you accept as comfortable enough to make you feel complete.

Well put, Sandi; it's really not transition from male to female, or female to male; it's transition from who you were to who you know you should be.

Annie

Thanks Taylor, lol... I'm gonna be up all night pondering this now ;)

It perfectly highlights a conflict I've recently been trying to resolve: I'm waffling between #1 and #2. I just can't allow myself to think I "am" female for some reason... and yet I've always known I'd rather have been born female. Always.

The sex I am.. or the sex I (merely) want to be?

Methinks my entire universe is revolving around that unanswered question. Trapped. Spiraling in. That's the wall, the nexus I can't see past.

Hey Taylor,

I chose, "Changing my body to fit the sex I am".  It seems there is no concensus on why I don't feel like the gender of my body, and perhaps it's one of those deals where there are lots of reasons and each of us experience it in our own way.  In any event, I don't feel like a man. Given the available choices, I'll take female.  The only conclusion I can come to, is that somehow my brain developed as a girl, while my body developed as a boy. Since the mind runs the body, my mind has determined I have the wrong body.

I have sat and pondered why I don't think I have the wrong brain.  Why my intellect assumes my body is wrong, instread of assuming my brain is wrong. Most likey because if my brain is wrong, I am basically insane and it seems it's easier to change the body than the brain.  Not to mention that for some reason the thought of trying to change my brain so it thinks like a man, which would bring my whole body back into congruence also, seems kinda repugnant to me. Again, I am not sure exactly why.

I have been asked the question, and I am sure all of your forum veterans have seen it, "if you could take a pill or in some other way change so that you were happy being the gender of your body and you would never miss presenting yourself as your target gender,  would you take it?".  My answer is always no, and in every poll I have seen, the majority say no.

Rationally this does not seem very rational, at first. However, if you ask most people that do not have gender issues,  if they are satisfied with thier gender, they say they are and would not change.  I too am happy with my gender, it's my body I am dissatified with. Again, when asked "if there was a pill that would make you your target gender, would you take it?", the transsexuals say yes, the transgenderists, and crossdressers say no.

I know it's just a matter of semantics, but usually when people refer to one's "sex" they are talking about our physical body and use "gender" when talking about what we feel about which group we feel ourselves to be a part of.

So I have to change my sex, to match my gender if they are incongruent.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Quote from: Kate on May 30, 2006, 11:10:40 PM...
The sex I am.. or the sex I (merely) want to be?
...

^*wink*
The sex I want to be, because it is the gender I am...

Taylor
what you see of me is a reflection in the mirror.
what you do not  see (or rather, what i do not present) is the man who stands in front of the mirror.
Kate is a spirit within that demands to be seen... demands to be heard... demands to express herself.
She has made drastic positive changes to the man in front of the mirror.
changes that family and freinds see and applaud as great personal improvements.
The man in front of the mirror clearly sees Kate as a sparkel within his eye. a glint of hope. and a vision of the future.

Yet the truth is, when you look at Kate... you only see a part of me.

just a reflection of who i am

who i shall become?   thats a work in progress

KateAlice

Quote from: Kimberly on May 30, 2006, 11:03:55 PM
"Correcting my body to fit my the sex I am" with the stipulation that it reads "Correcting my body to fit my the gender I am".

Ditto

Steph

checked number three.

always in between - so it's a little like Let's Make A Deal.:

"Will you trade what's in that box for what's behind door #2 where Carol Merrill is now standing"

I couldn't check any...
Transistion to ME is not a physical "appearance" change or correction.
Transistion to me is more of a mental thing and an acknowledment within myself to accept and love me for whom I am inside regardless of the wrapper. For no matter what I look like on the outside I am and always will be a woman to my core existence.
I think Transition is 75% mental for anybody to truly accept who you are is the greatest challenge I think most of us encounter because we have been programmed to think only oneway "to stay in our box" Sort of speak. an anology i'm sure you can apprecaite Taylor ;)
So for me transistion is coming to terms within myself and knowing beyond any doubt  that I am
"One <insert bad word here> of a woman!"

Hope I answered the poll appropriately....if not honestly!

One woman with much love....
Chynna

I was going to write my own definition of Transition but Sandi said it so much better than what I was about to write when she wrote:

Transition consists of, and is complete when one is satisfied with where they are at. ....

In other words it isn't so much what you do that constitutes transition, but what you accept as comfortable enough to make you feel complete. Transition is an indefinable procedure that varies widely among those in the transsexual community.

She is correct when she states transition is finished when you feel that you are complete, that point for me was partially with HRT and finally with SRS.  That point seems to also bring a feeling of completeness and with that comes a feeling of peace and closure.  It no longer matters if I am wearing a dress or men's jeans and tee shirt (men's jeans seem to wear better for rough work, and sometimes fit better on that developing form of mine).  I may never finish the cosmetic work that should be done to complete the process as at my age it would not be cost effective and has limited value added, considering how I feel at this point. 

I am how happy with who I am and what I am!

Taylor,

    If the body is never corrected to fit the brain, they how can we ever live in complete physical bliss?????????!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait for surgery!   Good poll.

                                                      Marco

Wow what awsome replies!  I am going to attempt to reply to several of you all within this box lol

Nero:  Yea, I know I have always been the male sex, and I do have intersex traits above the average norm that most people have within them, observed or not. I do not believe that I have a condition of any sort, and I don't believe many of us do to be honest. I believe GID is a explaination that is given so that the world around us that fails at understanding our very nature, needs the term to explain what escapes them. I have no disorder I am in a world where their view is disordered lol. ( my firm opinion by the way)  ::)

Alice: I think Cross Dressing is so wide spread in the human population and people just live denying themselves such a freedom.  I think it is great for those that feel so free to do so!

Sandi:  I could not agree with you more!  Many spend a life time transitioning and others go through it rapidly, and all stop at different points in their life, it is such a individual thing without doubt! But you state that some do not make "any changes"  Transition is a process of change, can you tell me what you mean here? I don't think I get it. Thanks!!

Kimberly:  I dilberately used the term "Sex" because I am not referring to "Gender" I wish I had more space so I could have had a selection box for "Gender" to be put there...I was limited on what they let us put in. Glad you spoke up!

Annie Social: What about those of us that have never changed "Who we are or what we are" just how we are socially perceived?  I am still me, and I am still male, and I transitioned my bodies physical aspects to line up even closer to the male end of the spectrum so I could be seen in this world more accurately to who I "Really" am, and have always been.

  Oh let me give one example here ok?  In the movie TransAmerica, the woman tells her mother " You have never had a son !" her mom thinks that is just so evil! But I have myself in my past said very simular words to someone, so I really relate to this. I think it may be a good example to what I am asking you.

I hear many people talk about having two selves within themselves, and I have a theory on why that may occur,  ( Just a theory of mine) The awareness that the one self was socially created and the self that is fighting within themselves and a need to be set free feels like a seperate identity when in fact it is their natural born identity. ( My personal take on this)


Kate:  Let me suggest a thought to you....  IF Gender is the issue at hand, then it is all that is socialized as a behavior, which yes can stim from the psychi, but if we take into consideration that it may be that the brain is in tune with the body, and the body is simply being observed incorrectly due to lack of our level of knowledge and current technology....well then? You may in fact just be a woman that lands on the spectrum outside of the cluster, but none the less a woman! Just more for you to ponder! lol   ;D


Elizabeth:  You state: conclusion I can come to, is that somehow my brain developed as a girl, while my body developed as a boy.   No one yet has been able to define what a female or male even is...so may I suggest that you are most likely what you say you are from within.  I love what you shared here,  I too would not ever take a pill, because the trustest sense of who I am comes from within me, and that is why my brain is not incorrect, it is in tune with my depths, not just a shell that was socially assigned a label.

KatieAlice:   I am so glad that you have the courage to bring the woman in you out for all the world to know! All the blessings that you will receive from being "you"!! In my book there is a poem that a mother sent to me that her son wrote for her back when he was suppose to be a "she" and was a teenager asking her for help. It too talks of that person in the mirror.

Kimberly: I need to understand a little more. I want to be clear that when I say Sex I am talking about the biological natural state of being of myself, and Gender is the masculine/feminine socialized behavior I express.  Can you tell me more about how you see yourself? I want to make sure I know what your saying for sure, if you don't mind sharing more with me?? Thanks!  ???


Steph:  ok, I guess I would say the same to you as I have said above to her lol  Peace Gal!

Jan: is there any truer Intersexed person on the planet? You rock gal right down the middle...there has to be a song for you in here somewhere, I can feel it  ;)

Chynna:  For me the internal healing was a required thing, and then the physical transition was just a easy flow, natural, non conflicting in any way at all. I always wish that for everyone! Thanks for bringing such an important thing up!!

Caitlyn:  Yep, we all have a place that works for us somewhere along the way. And yea it can sure vary!

Marco: Bro I am so happy for you!! I know the freedom that comes from the journey you are on! As for complete physical bliss... umm dude I have never found that! LOL  But I am told no man ever does under any condition...but  yea you come a lot closer as things get corrected to what is fitting for you that's for sure! Whenever I read things you write it brings such a sense of gratitude for me, because all these years later it can be real easy to forget where I came from. Right now you can't imagine that, but in like 7 or 8 yrs from now, you will know what I mean! And in 15 yrs from now, you will REALLY know what I'm sayin lol...and you will also know that as the thinning of hair, the growth of some gray hairs, shaving  always mandentory...and you WILL gripe about it ( believe it or not) and you find that your blood pressure is high, and all the things that come with being a middle aged man really do come down on you.... bliss is but a fragment of your imagination LOL ( just messin with ya bro!) Cheers!!  >:D

Well I think I covered everyone that responded up to date! Thanks so much all of you for sharing what you did. And I am glad that many of you also found it fun and interesting!
Peace,
Taylor

Taylor,
Nicely done!!!!
Love the way you managed to fit that in "THE BOX"! ;) :)

Quote from: taylor on May 31, 2006, 04:20:53 PMAnnie Social: What about those of us that have never changed "Who we are or what we are" just how we are socially perceived?  I am still me, and I am still male, and I transitioned my bodies physical aspects to line up even closer to the male end of the spectrum so I could be seen in this world more accurately to who I "Really" am, and have always been.

What I should have made clear was that when I spoke of "transition from who you were to who you know you should be", I was speaking of the physical transition; that is, the changing of the exterior to match what has always been inside.

See, that's what happens when I post at 5 in the morning after 2 hours of sleep!

Annie

Quote from: taylor on May 31, 2006, 04:20:53 PM...
Kimberly:  I dilberately used the term "Sex" because I am not referring to "Gender" I wish I had more space so I could have had a selection box for "Gender" to be put there...I was limited on what they let us put in. Glad you spoke up!
...
Kimberly: I need to understand a little more. I want to be clear that when I say Sex I am talking about the biological natural state of being of myself, and Gender is the masculine/feminine socialized behavior I express.  Can you tell me more about how you see yourself? I want to make sure I know what your saying for sure, if you don't mind sharing more with me?? Thanks!  ???
...

My definition is rather simplistic.

My sex is what my body is, rather a hybrid at the moment.
My Gender is what I am, Female


I have no specific word for my behavior as I behave as me, as dull as that is ;)


So, when I say, "Correcting my body to fit my the gender I am". I am saying "Correcting my sex to fit my gender. I.e. shuffling the body to match the mind and the sense of self. To look at that another way the body is doing the M->F dance, and will eventually catch up with the mind.

When I read "Correcting my body to fit my the sex I am" it does not compute, as it is saying fix the body to match the body in effect, hence my stipulation.

(= That is the confused mess I see from the straight forward poll ;)

Hi Taylor,
This is an very interesting poll and posting.
I also said "Changing my body to fit the sex I am".
But what real hit me were these words in your reply to everyone who wrote.

QuoteI hear many people talk about having two selves within themselves, and I have a theory on why that may occur,  ( Just a theory of mine) The awareness that the one self was socially created and the self that is fighting within themselves and a need to be set free feels like a separate identity when in fact it is their natural born identity. ( My personal take on this)

I believe that too and that is me.
Recently I have been trying to get rid of the socially created self, but I find it's seems to be better if I unite with him.  I am Jillieann and will always be but he has dealt with the world and people and I can use he's help.
I'm still working on this so don't hit me to hard for saying it. And I think this makes me sound a little crazy. But I am in therapy already and we have been talking allot about this stuff.
Anyway Taylor really enjoyed your take on this double nature I have been fighting all my life.
:)
Jillieann
 

 

Quote from: taylorSandi:  I could not agree with you more!  Many spend a life time transitioning and others go through it rapidly, and all stop at different points in their life, it is such a individual thing without doubt! But you state that some do not make "any changes"  Transition is a process of change, can you tell me what you mean here? I don't think I get it. Thanks!!

Taylor, the "do not make any changes" is only in reference to appearances (dress, hrt, surgery etc) and probably pretty darn rare. There are none that I know, and only one that I have ever heard of. Still even lacking these observable changes there would be changes in understanding, acceptance and mental state to reach a point of acceptance.

And now looking back, though I think a valid point, I maybe confused the issue by using an extremely rare case for example on that end. Understandably not too many would be that passive about their gender.

Quote from: taylor on May 31, 2006, 04:20:53 PM

Kate:  Let me suggest a thought to you....  IF Gender is the issue at hand, then it is all that is socialized as a behavior, which yes can stim from the psychi, but if we take into consideration that it may be that the brain is in tune with the body, and the body is simply being observed incorrectly due to lack of our level of knowledge and current technology....well then? You may in fact just be a woman that lands on the spectrum outside of the cluster, but none the less a woman! Just more for you to ponder! lol   ;D

Care to elaborate?

I'm not sure I quite understand... hmm... are you saying that I'm "female," even if my physical body seems male by societal standards? And that my angst, my "dysphoria" is caused by my believing in those inaccurate standards of what "male" and "female" are? If so, then it would seem that a mental shift in how I perceive myself would cure the dysphoria - no physical changes needed. And yet I do *crave* a more typically female physical form - not individual parts mind you, but the overall body form. Is that craving biological (brain wants the estrogen and body image it doesn't have) or programmed behaviour (I'm being pressured by society to conform to it's expectations of what a "female" looks like)?

^*ponder* Ooh interesting question!

I am probably the most reclusive here, but in no way am I untainted by society. ... Um, I will say, for me, that society is not my reason for craving the physical to be... correct. The reason is internal.

However some of the reasons I do a few of the things I do in the process can be attributed to society at large. Mostly the restrictions I place on myself, by the by.

I THINK! ;)

Quote from: Kimberly on June 01, 2006, 08:53:30 AMUm, I will say, for me, that society is not my reason for craving the physical to be... correct. The reason is internal.

Same here.

And I'm careful to seperate "transitioning" into two components: physical and social.

The physical component is what *I* need and crave, and that pretty much revolves around hormones and the *overall* changes they'd (hopefully) bring. I don't crave specific parts (breasts, SRS, etc.) so much as an overall body morph or map which tends to INCLUDE those things.

The social transition is really mostly to make it easier for society to categorize me into it's binary system of gender. It's for THEM, not me. The name changes, legal recognition, role change, etc. - are all secondary social consequences of the physical transition. They aren't what I need, though they'll certainly be appreciated. But these things aren't what my dysphoria is about. I don't crave the role, the clothes, the name, or even the recognition.

But I do crave to be physically female, however vague that goal may be. It may indeed be a sliding scale - and all I know is I haven't slid far enough yet ;)

Hi All


Kate: Yes you are understanding me correctly.  It is largely in my opinion because we do place such a high value on what society has assigned as a "fact", and because they have gotten it wrong, we do end up having to juggle many aspects of ourselves, so much so even that we cannot know if in the end we altered our body to fit society or if we do it for ourselves, or what I would suggest a combination of both. Because while we come to realize something is wrong, we have a very hard time accepting that society as a whole could be so mistaken. And to make matters worse, even when the very scientific evidence that they have used to support a two sexed world, has proven actually that there is no such thing,  where does that leave us? It leaves us exactly where we are.

To Everyone
If we altered our bodies just for ourselves, then let me ask this. Why do I read about the need to "Pass/Blend" so often ?  Why is it more important to have our bodies altered so the world around us will "believe" we are the sex we are claiming to be? Why is the need to blend in so fital to us as over all? ( I am not saying that all of us have the need to blend, but I think we know that the majority of the time this IS the case.)

It is not a shame to admit that we do this not just for ourselves. As a Sociologist it is really odd at times. There are things that I know intellectually and because I too have been socialized so deeply I still find myself responding as others do to certian things...even when I know something,...I still am a part of the social structure I live in and my need to function accordingly is going to still impact me. Intellectual knowledge, or just plane awareness does not stop the impact of our cultures socialization on us.

I believe that each of us do draw our own lines, based on the best that we can sort out. I am not convenced we all really know exactly why that line fell were we have it. But I think we certianly consider why we do what we do and get a good feel of it as well.

I know that even I believe that my physical alterations were because "I needed them so much!" but at the same time I can only speculate too, if I would have needed it to the same degree, or at all...had the world not assigned me so incorrectly to begin with. If I had been more allowed to be me, would the need have been so intense?  We cannot ever know that answer in my opinion, because we can never live in such a world to have such freedoms.

It is also my personal belief that one day generations from now, they will absolutely laugh at the notion the sexes were seperated in such a ignorant way.

So when I see people talking of having a "disorder" I guess I can buy into that if we stipulate it with a "Social Disorder" not a mental or medical disorder. 

I do really enjoy reading all the responses! You all have been great!

Peace,

Taylor

PS I am not in anyway telling anyone that they are wrong in what they feel or think...I hope that this comes across very clear!  I truly respect all of you that have shared here and please don't think for a minute that I stand in judgement of a single thing. Our identities are at best complex!  :o


Posted at: June 01, 2006, 03:22:06 PM

---

Sandi,

Are you referring the the F2M that did not change thier body or any other aspect of themself and attended MIT I think it was?

Peace,
Taylor

Hi Taylor,

We change our bodies for ourselves, but we also try to blend into society for ourselves for different reasons.  I personally do not like being addressed as he/him because it implies something I am not.  I think there are people who truly do not care about what society thinks and they go as far as they are do until they are comfortable with themselves, even if they are not passable.

For me, not only is it about how I feel about myself, but also how I feel about my relationships with others.  I think you are right about social dictation having a strong influence on this aspect of transition.  However, if it was just about how I want to dress or act, I would just be a cross-dresser and it is much more than that.

Melissa

I think transition for me will be about passing, interacting with the world at large in a body that reflects the person/sex/gender I feel myself to be.  Not passing means that people will still be interacting with the shell, the disguise, which is what I want to transition from.

I also think that saying I want to pass is another way of saying that I want to maximize my social effectiveness.  I think transition is also a way of doing that, come to think of it!  If I do not pass or if I am in disguise I feel that my effectiveness in the world suffers.  In the former sense because people are reacting to the "->-bleeped-<-" and that's not what I'm really all about and in the latter sense because they are reacting to a man who really isn't one and feels like a fraud all the time (and has to constantly employ strategies - deceit - designed to perpetuate that fraud).  Either way an artificial (from my p.o.v.) construct gets in the way.

helen

Helen,

I feel that my effectiveness in the world suffers.

In 1991 I sat on a park bench and told the woman that was much like a mother figure in my life, exactly these words as my closing statement when I told her I was transitioning.  I agree with you completely here!! No doubt it makes a difference. 15 yrs later I never deal with the odd moments, or people not "getting" me, because they are feeling dysphoric when dealing with me lol. 

Well just wanted to tell you I totally get this.

Peace,

Taylor

It is a very good point that a part of really requiring a physical change via transition has to be entertwined with integrating with society.

If I had the money to say 'forget society' and live on my own island, I may well still feel that some of this has got to go. On the other hand a luxury of absolute independence could possibly temper that feeling of urgency to a great degree, I do not know. That's all absurd hypotheses and does not apply anyway -

In my case I may have a chance to be the person: read the artist I can to what potential I've remaining, this would only be possible in this situation, transition; and what I do now is by design to be shared...

We all have to market ourself to the world. It is a commercial world.
I have to match an exterior with my interior: it would be false to hide, and counterproductive.

Quote from: taylor on June 01, 2006, 03:25:34 PM...
If we altered our bodies just for ourselves, then let me ask this. Why do I read about the need to "Pass/Blend" so often ?
...

The hate board (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,38.0.html) here has a few answers to that. So does the discrimination board (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,20.0.html).

Those are reasons of course, but not all of the answer.



If I had the money to say "forget society" and live independently away from it... Not that much would be different for me. I would still be preping for the same procedures, although the amount of FFS I am not sure of. I would be doing a few things I want to be doing now but are financial bound currently. (I.e. I have a sever lack of funds). However, a few of the restrictions I place upon myself would not exist, as they are there for societies benefit, not my own.  But to be fair I am not that far from the `forget society` stage anyway. I see other people, once a week, perhaps every other.

You know, I'm not gonna blend anyway. This much is quite clear to me. IF I were in the mode I was at one time (and I know that a lot of that was about the internal conflict of (mostly, eventually) wrong body/wrong vehicle for the soul and mind), I'm going to do this all for me - the music, what-have-you - I would not care too much about a presentation.
I am in the world now. I think that is a good thing.
Should get a t-shirt printed 'WORK IN PROGRESS'.

Quote from: HelenW on June 01, 2006, 08:27:54 PM

I also think that saying I want to pass is another way of saying that I want to maximize my social effectiveness. If I do not pass or if I am in disguise I feel that my effectiveness in the world suffers.  In the former sense because... because they are reacting to a man who really isn't one and feels like a fraud all the time (and has to constantly employ strategies - deceit - designed to perpetuate that fraud).  Either way an artificial (from my p.o.v.) construct gets in the way.
helen

what she said

Quote from: TaylorAre you referring the the F2M that did not change thier body or any other aspect of themself and attended MIT I think it was?

No, it is a person from the support group that I used to attend in Milwaukee, although I haven't been there for well over a year. Support groups are not by cup of tea.

Quote from: HelenW on June 01, 2006, 08:27:54 PM
I think transition for me will be about passing, interacting with the world at large in a body that reflects the person/sex/gender I feel myself to be.  Not passing means that people will still be interacting with the shell, the disguise, which is what I want to transition from.

I sometimes fear that if I transition and don't pass, things will be much WORSE in terms of those interactions.

That is, right now, I realize people see a physical male. But for reasons I cannot fathom, people don't treat me much like one. No, I don't get "mamm'd" or anything like that. I look like an ordinary(?) guy. But still, women do tend to include me in their circles, and men treat me... well... kinda like a llittle kid, for lack of a better analogy. Sooner or later my physical reality does get in the way, and I HATE that. But still, it's something.

But if I transition, what if people forever feel uncomfortable around a "transsexual?" THAT would really be sad. My male disguise does get in the way at times, but it's NOTHING like what I fear being a non-passing transsexual will be like.

So it's ironic... but one of the reasons I hesitate to transition is because I fear I'll LOSE my (limited, but it's there) female-ish day-to-day interactions with people.

Kate,

Well put.. ;)
I just got to a point where I said "screw it!" if I loose an individual in my life I will just have to accepted..I found out later that the statment in itself was easier to...well...say then it was to deal with so very valid fear I shared that same sentiment

I just like to add
"Pandora I give you your box back!" ;)

Simply
Chynna

Quote from: Kate on June 02, 2006, 11:17:26 AM

  My male disguise does get in the way at times, but it's NOTHING like what I fear being a non-passing transsexual will be like.

Once again it should not be about presenting as a woman but living as one.

Tell me what is a passing woman?  Bea Auther or Sandra Bullock?  Charlize Theron or Janet Reno?

Quote from: Leigh on June 03, 2006, 12:09:25 PM
Tell me what is a passing woman?  Bea Auther or Sandra Bullock?  Charlize Theron or Janet Reno?

I think a passing woman is one who is seen and treated as one by the general population.  All of the women mentioned are accepted as female by pretty much everyone, as far as I can see.  Will that happen for me all the time?  Most likely not, but I'd like it to go that way at least enough times that I can feel that I'm relating to the universe better than I am now.

helen

^*shrug*

People may relate to me however they like. I most certainly prefer a female context, ^*chortle* and I confess I find it very amusing when they avoid me, especially when they go out of their way to do so. But to be perfectly honest as long as they are civil I really do not care what they think, or how they behave.

Quote from: Leigh on June 03, 2006, 12:09:25 PM
Once again it should not be about presenting as a woman but living as one.

Tell me what is a passing woman?  Bea Auther or Sandra Bullock?  Charlize Theron or Janet Reno?

LOL.
In the suburb I am currently stationed at, I see persons every day, at the safeway, u name it, that I wonder about.
With varying degrees of ???
Most of them are PROBABLY women. Of one form or another.
I fit right in currently.

not to even mention the city.

Janet Reno, maybe not passing every where, seriously.
LMAO


Posted at: June 03, 2006, 11:27:13 AM

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Leigh seriously:
living as a woman
means being accepted by society (YMMV but this tends to include male society)
as a woman PER SE
this tends to mean being able to present as a woman
instead of trying to put the cart before the horse
or not?

One reason for looking as feminine as possible is that not everyone has a very good imagination.  It kind of helps them along.  These are the people who tend to give the most trouble.

Melissa

Not read all the thread, but just wanted to say what I see as 'transition' isn't an option in the poll.

To me 'transition' is getting to a point where you are happy with yourself and your life.

This is obviously different things for different people, but the one big mistake I feel many make is in thinking that SRS is the end of transition, as really it's just another step (and one a person doesn't have to take) with many more after it.

Quote from: jan c on June 03, 2006, 01:35:21 PM
Leigh seriously:
living as a woman
means being accepted by society (YMMV but this tends to include male society)
as a woman PER SE

I suppose if a person needs that validation by a man then its fine.  I just wonder why anyone would need a mans permission to be themself?  Or, for that matter their ok to do anything!

Leigh

QuoteI just wonder why anyone would need a mans permission to be themself?  Or, for that matter their ok to do anything!

some of us aren't as strong willled and confident as others.
But I agree with your point entirely.

Requiring only my approval
Chynna

Quote from: Leigh on June 03, 2006, 05:15:58 PM
I suppose if a person needs that validation by a man then its fine.  I just wonder why anyone would need a mans permission to be themself?  Or, for that matter their ok to do anything!

Leigh

what are we talking about? ???
I need noone's permission to do a damn thing.
a very selective quote btw.
a bone to pick?

all I am trying to indicate:
if most people think you are a man, by default, that your appearance may scream "male"
{EG: I have a beard. = can't pass all the time every day. Cart before the horse. >NG: Don't Work  [EG: the Bearded Lady Cafe notwithstanding, cause it EXISTS SPECIFICALLY IN A SUBCULTURE, not just a 'woman's space' but a subset of that, within a subset of that, outside of the male gender and/or sex]}, then CHANCES ARE you are unable to 'live as a woman';
or if you can, show me your alternative scenario. Please.



Posted at: June 03, 2006, 03:31:33 PM

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IE: in mainstream society. I guess that implication is not strong enough in what I wrote. Sorry.

It's a wide world out there.
I have been able to hold my own as what I am: a musician (not a male musician strictly, a pseudo-woman, a TS musician, all or none of the above, I don't care about that.)
(Again YMMV may well vary) society is structured currently as a patriarchy, I don't like it any more than Leigh does.
It is a fact.
I see problems in the interface of what I do (which cannot be that different than any other job, only more-or-less intense, more than most) with a male-dominated field, world, what-have-you, as not-woman, not-man.
Because people know my name connected to past work, can't go "stealth". Has to be pulled off properly. Can't be too much of a frikkin joke.
I cannot hide in too much of a subculture.
YMMV.

More and more, I have been introducing myself as Melissa to people while presenting as male (I love that term).  That just means no makeup and a male shirt and nothing done to my hair.  Anyway, the point is that I am a woman no matter how I appear and many people can accept even that.  So passing isn't everything.

Melissa

Hi all,

I have been stealthily viewing the forum for a while now and thought it was time I introduced myself.   My chosen name is Pippa.    Having crossdressed for years and having taken hormones off and on for years, always stepping back from full commitment, I have recently decided to transition from male to female.   My make up skills are improving slowly and this Thursday I am having my second laser hair removal session.

My parents know I have crossdressed in the past but, other than my hair removal nurse, no one knows my true feelings.  I plan to go full time in the new year and I intend to go public after Christmas.   I am extremely nervous about the next few years.  Although I can bluff it I am not the most confident of persons and I doubt I can acceptably pass at the moment.

I see this email as part of building my confidence and becoming more assure of my true gender.   I would apreciate any assistance and support the forum can provide.

Sorry for being hidden for so long.

Pippa