I felt female from an early age in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned. From about 13 onwards I dressed androgenously and had very long hair. Did anyone else take a similar path and avoid the marriage sinario altogether?
Jeans, t-shirt and long hair was my normal presentation; That said, I've never found anyone of interest that was also interested in me. That is the major reason why I was single up to "shortly" before it dawned on me that I was a girl, and of course that rather sunk the arrangement and I ended up single again. In my perspective I was sadly clueless and would have married someone had things worked like that; That said... *shrug*
>>>> just wishes she had avoided the whole 'getting married thing."
Actually, Berleigh, I imagine that you and others who never married are just more 'real' or 'moral' than those of us who did.
That does always seem to be an angle lurking in that question.
But, I wouldn't give up my very 'real' children for all the estrogen in the world.
N~
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
I felt female from an early age in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned. From about 13 onwards I dressed androgenously and had very long hair. Did anyone else take a similar path and avoid the marriage sinario altogether?
No. I didn't. I dressed as a male until transitoning, kept my hair short and masculine neat, and married and had sex with a woman.
~Kate~
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
I felt female from an early age in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned.
But what if you had been lesbian? Why not take advantage of marriage rights?
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AMDid anyone else take a similar path and avoid the marriage sinario altogether?
Nero has definitly a point there--even if one knew there was "something wrong" with him/her, that doesn't necessarily mean they marry somebody just to get married and to prove that they are normal (like a closeted homosexual might).
I couldn't have a relationship with somebody, let alone marry that person, without telling them about my GID, but if the person knows and accept why not marry him/her if marriage rights allow it?
And not everyone knew about their GID when they got married.
Quote from: Nichole on April 25, 2008, 11:15:51 AM
Actually, Berleigh, I imagine that you and others who never married are just more 'real' or 'moral' than those of us who did.
That does always seem to be an angle lurking in that question.
But, I wouldn't give up my very 'real' children for all the estrogen in the world.
N~
Yep, I agree. :)
Quote from: Nero on April 25, 2008, 12:50:38 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
I felt female from an early age in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned.
But what if you had been lesbian? Why not take advantage of marriage rights?
Exactly right Nero. :)
Was I supposed to? ;) ;D Well, in my case it is simple really. I am a heterosexual woman, and I'm NOT attracted to females. Now you can sue me! :P
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on April 25, 2008, 07:53:25 PM
Was I supposed to? ;) ;D
Of course you were!!! OMG, didn't you get the RULES back in 4th grade?!!! :laugh: :laugh:
Nichole
Quote from: Nichole on April 25, 2008, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Tink on April 25, 2008, 07:53:25 PM
Was I supposed to? ;) ;D
Of course you were!!! OMG, didn't you get the RULES back in 4th grade?!!! :laugh: :laugh:
Nichole
;D I knew what I liked since I was two or three. I just can't imagine how my life would have turned out if I had married a woman (assuming that my sexual orientation had been different of course). I like to be the pretty one, the one in a white dress walking down the aisle. Got that? :P ;D
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on April 25, 2008, 08:18:18 PM
Quote from: Nichole on April 25, 2008, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Tink on April 25, 2008, 07:53:25 PM
Was I supposed to? ;) ;D
Of course you were!!! OMG, didn't you get the RULES back in 4th grade?!!! :laugh: :laugh:
Nichole
;D I knew what I like since I was two or three. I just can't imagine how my life would have turned out if I had married a woman (assuming that my sexual orientation had been different of course). I like to be the pretty one, the one in a white dress walking down the aisle. Got that? :P ;D
tink :icon_chick:
Hey, girlfriend, I got it, but I believe that there's
someone else who needs to know it more than I do!!! >:D
N~
Quote from: Tink on April 25, 2008, 07:53:25 PM
Was I supposed to? ;) ;D Well, in my case it is simple really. I am a heterosexual woman, and I'm NOT attracted to females. Now you can sue me! :P
tink :icon_chick:
EXACTLY ;) !!!
Liked girls, but as friends, the idea of being sexual with them as a guy just seemed a totally bizzare idea.
All my teenage fantasies were me being a girl with this "strong, loving, perfect" guy ....
Even had huge crushes on a couple of close guy friends who though "well straight" I felt treated me like they would a girl ... ::) ....
I envy TS women for their children, but just can't relate at all to how they got there.
Or understand why we "unmarrieds" seem to be in a minority in of all places a TS forum ... ??? ....
Laura x
P.S.
"Didn't you get the RULES back in 4th grade?!!!" ..... think the rules must have been a very American thing :o ::) ;D !!!
Quote from: Elincubus on April 25, 2008, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AMDid anyone else take a similar path and avoid the marriage sinario altogether?
Nero has definitly a point there--even if one knew there was "something wrong" with him/her, that doesn't necessarily mean they marry somebody just to get married and to prove that they are normal (like a closeted homosexual might).
I couldn't have a relationship with somebody, let alone marry that person, without telling them about my GID, but if the person knows and accept why not marry him/her if marriage rights allow it?
And not everyone knew about their GID when they got married.
That would be moi! (waves hand) If I could transition fully (which will likely never happen because I don't "look" like a woman in the face) AND my wife still love me for WHO I am -- if I go too far she will divorce me -- I would. As much as I love my wife and my son, if I'd known what I was before we met, then I would have never gotten married and I would have never had a son. I'm very grateful to have both, but am saddened that I can't be me in fear of losing my family :(
Aeron
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
I felt female from an early age in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned.
You did the right thing Kim. You obviously didn't try to kid yourself like I did.
L.
Posted on: April 26, 2008, 07:20:10 AM
Quote from: AeronTG on April 25, 2008, 11:21:20 PM
That would be moi! (waves hand) If I could transition fully (which will likely never happen because I don't "look" like a woman in the face) AND my wife still love me for WHO I am -- if I go too far she will divorce me -- I would. As much as I love my wife and my son, if I'd known what I was before we met, then I would have never gotten married and I would have never had a son. I'm very grateful to have both, but am saddened that I can't be me in fear of losing my family :(
Aeron
You are not alone on here. I'm in the same position except we don't have children.
L.
Quote from: Nichole on April 25, 2008, 11:15:51 AM
But, I wouldn't give up my very 'real' children for all the estrogen in the world.
I would relly like to see which children are then "unreal", adopted ones or....???
I'd like to have my biological children as well, but i have to accept that it is simply
impossible (yet?). Sure if i were a lesbian i would consider storing sperm and having
biological children with my future partner, but i am not.
I really don't get that "trading children for estrogen". I want to be a mother (one day)
but with my current reproducitve sistem (which is still intact) i can only be a father.
Having in mind I just cant relate to any male social role, my children would end up with
2 mothers. That is not the choice I would ever make; but that doesn't mean i don't respect
others who do.
no hard fealings :)
None taken. The point was simply that if I had to choose between losing my children and losing my estrogen I'd lose the estrogen.
I would hardly trade one for another, though.
But, two mothers or even three is not a horrible situation -- regardless the posturing of some so-called leaders in groups like Focus on the Family.
Children need love and attention and it matters not whether they get that from two men, two women, eight people of mixed gender or from a village of two hundred people of all sorts.
We have placed an inordinate amount of emphasis on the 'nuclear family' over the past two generations -- mostly due to economic reasons, as people have moved from place to place and left behind so much of what was once 'family.'
One man and one woman is a seventy year thing, the extended family has been with us for millions of years.
No one else has to validate my choices and actions by doing them the same way. In fact if I wait for that or feel that, then I must not feel particularly validated within myself.
I knew what I knew, did what I did. It was okay. Just as your choices, Mari, are okay.
My difficulty with this particualr question is that it is almost always and invariably a set-up for someone trying to win validation for herself or himself by opposing 'having children' and 'not having children' as some kind of 'real/true transsexual' litmus test.
While my point is this: whatever I have to sacrifice for my children I shall. And no matter what else, I shall never, ever, regret their existence. If someone wants to try to plump her own validity with how one answers that question, then fine for her. Hope she feels validated.
I just wonder why she didn't feel validated before asking the question and getting the answers. That seems like a problem much more intrinsic to herself and much more worthy of her investigation.
Nichole
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
I felt female from an early age in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned. From about 13 onwards I dressed androgenously and had very long hair. Did anyone else take a similar path and avoid the marriage sinario altogether?
What is the "marriage scenario"? You're basically asking "who's a straight woman and found the courage to assert it from an early age?" There's some of us who have always identified as gynephile and are lesbians after transition who I'm sure, as Nero mentioned, took advantage of being able to marry a woman. What about those who had relationships with gay men before transition, I'm sure they had a hard time without being married, so a "future gentleman" deserves a mention too.
As for me, I always liked boys but I hated myself for it and anyway being with a boy as a boy felt weird. Girls were awesome in a "I'm doomed to never be one" way.
And yes, I had long hair from an early age, can remember feeling like a girl when I was about 3, never married and had no children so I guess I'm real; alas I also had deep relationships with a couple of women and sported a beard at 18-19. **fake TS alarm!** :P
To be honest Ber, this smacks of "who's real/who's not" talk and we need it like the proverbial fish needs the proverbial bicycle.
Quote from: Nichole on April 26, 2008, 07:30:53 AM
My difficulty with this particualr question is that it is almost always and invariably a set-up for someone trying to win validation for herself or himself by opposing 'having children' and 'not having children' as some kind of 'real/true transsexual' litmus test.
While my point is this: whatever I have to sacrifice for my children I shall. And no matter what else, I shall never, ever, regret their existence. If someone wants to try to plump her own validity with how one answers that question, then fine for her. Hope she feels validated.
Yes, and unfortunatly
'real/true transsexual' crap is what appears too often;
and not just from ignorant people you have to deal on daily basis but within trans
community itself.
Once you have children, you take a great deal of responsibility for them, aside from
immense joy and happines they certanly bring, and you stop doing things having only
yourself in mind
Quote from: soldierjane on April 26, 2008, 09:20:05 AM
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
I felt female from an early age in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned. From about 13 onwards I dressed androgenously and had very long hair. Did anyone else take a similar path and avoid the marriage sinario altogether?
What is the "marriage scenario"? You're basically asking "who's a straight woman and found the courage to assert it from an early age?" There's some of us who have always identified as gynephile and are lesbians after transition who I'm sure, as Nero mentioned, took advantage of being able to marry a woman. What about those who had relationships with gay men before transition, I'm sure they had a hard time without being married, so a "future gentleman" deserves a mention too.
As for me, I always liked boys but I hated myself for it and anyway being with a boy as a boy felt weird. Girls were awesome in a "I'm doomed to never be one" way.
And yes, I had long hair from an early age, can remember feeling like a girl when I was about 3, never married and had no children so I guess I'm real; alas I also had deep relationships with a couple of women and sported a beard at 18-19. **fake TS alarm!** :P
To be honest Ber, this smacks of "who's real/who's not" talk and we need it like the proverbial fish needs the proverbial bicycle.
I agree, I'm tired of all the "I'm more a woman than you are" (when neither of us are)
Posted on: April 26, 2008, 09:48:31 AM
So true, Mari, SO TRUE! :D
Aeron
I well for reason for being in only one relationship(very close friendship) whether wife,boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever I have very poor self esteem and self image. Really I only can get so close to a person before getting paranoid and ruin it. I do want a family but I afraid it would be impossible to have it the way I wanted a family. That dream is pretty much dead for me.
Anna
Let's not end this debate on such a sour note. I have corresponded with Kim (Berleigh) on several occasions and I can tell you all that she is one of the most openly honest people - she has sometimes been in trouble for being forthright in her opinions. I'm sure she's not trying to place herself on higher ground because she didn't marry, just wanting to see if there are any others on this board who like her have avoided marriage.
In my case I accepted that I was 'different' - heaven knows plenty of people let me know that at school. But it was a reluctant acceptance because like any young person I didn't want to be seen as different, even though I desperately wanted to be like the girls. I knew my relatives, who loved me dearly, would have been appalled had they known my inner feelings and once I reached school leaving age I tried hard to make them proud of me by conforming to what I thought they expected of me. Moreover I was sick of being bullied and taunted by the boys. Eventually I met a girl who, as always, was someone I was attracted to because I wanted to be like her, not because I wanted to have mad passionate sex. We married and it was a disaster, so what did I do? I did the same thing again with another woman , vowing that I would make it work this time. And that's where I'm at now. Still desperately wanting to be Louise full time, but knowing that to do so will ruin another person's life and will leave me homeless and probably penniless. Apart from which I don't think I could make it in real life as a passable woman at my age. I'm not after sympathy by the way, just telling everyone how it is for me.
I think I've probably told Kim my story anyway, but there it is for anyone else who's interested.
Louise
Quote from: Nichole on April 25, 2008, 11:15:51 AM
Actually, Berleigh, I imagine that you and others who never married are just more 'real' or 'moral' than those of us who did.
That does always seem to be an angle lurking in that question.
But, I wouldn't give up my very 'real' children for all the estrogen in the world.
N~
I don't consider us any less "real" or "moral" than those who didn't marry. I thought I was stuck living as a man and did what I thought was expected of me. I have a wonderful daughter and wouldn't change a thing except for getting a lawyer for the divorce.
Karen Lyn
QuoteWhy didn't you have a wife?
i suppose i could have. little detail though.. i transitioned young & also who on earth would have wanted to marry a "confused" teenager?
Quote from: Natasha on April 26, 2008, 01:28:56 PM
QuoteWhy didn't you have a wife?
i suppose i could have. little detail though.. i transitioned young & also who on earth would have wanted to marry a "confused" teenager?
A lot of dirty old men in arranged-marriage societies would have probably welcomed your nubile flesh. Never say never! :P
Quote from: soldierjane on April 26, 2008, 02:25:07 PM
A lot of dirty old men in arranged-marriage societies would have probably welcomed your nubile flesh. Never say never! :P
I do not think dirty old
men would have married her--you overlooked the detail that she was M2F. ;)
Quote from: Elincubus on April 26, 2008, 04:27:37 PM
Quote from: soldierjane on April 26, 2008, 02:25:07 PM
A lot of dirty old men in arranged-marriage societies would have probably welcomed your nubile flesh. Never say never! :P
I do not think dirty old men would have married her--you overlooked the detail that she was M2F. ;)
O, trust me, there ARE some 'dirty old men' who would have loved to have married her, but would also have become uninterested after she had her surgery.
And some who would have been interested in paying for her to have had surgery. The world is full of all sorts.
N~
I am 20 years old, got married after dating my wife for 3 years, and have been married to her for a year now.
Loved her to death throughout our relationship.
The moment I came to terms with my GID, I lost interest in her and our relationship all together.
:-\
Nichole's wariness of ulterior motives is justified, since I have seen far too often how never-married trans women put down those of us who married. Make themselves out to be superior and even scold us for transitioning after marriage. Even right here in Susan's forums where that sort of putdown is not supposed to be allowed. The other thing is those whose GID isn't so severe and who have canceled their transitions to placate their families, they can be just as cruel toward people like me. Those who don't know what we've been through haven't got a clue how painful it can be. I have been bashed for that so many times I've become extremely sensitive about it and, like Nichole, very wary about it. I have already put two other individuals here on ignore for jabbing me in my most painful sore spot. I expect these forums to be a safe space for our issues, or I would not be here at all.
Quote from: Elincubus on April 26, 2008, 04:27:37 PM
Quote from: soldierjane on April 26, 2008, 02:25:07 PM
A lot of dirty old men in arranged-marriage societies would have probably welcomed your nubile flesh. Never say never! :P
I do not think dirty old men would have married her--you overlooked the detail that she was M2F. ;)
Oh no, I didn't ;)
Quote from: Laura Eva B on April 25, 2008, 08:34:39 PM
Quote from: Tink on April 25, 2008, 07:53:25 PM
Well, in my case it is simple really. I am a heterosexual woman, and I'm NOT attracted to females.
Liked girls, but as friends, the idea of being sexual with them as a guy just seemed a totally bizzare idea.
FWIW, sex wasn't my motivation for getting married.
~Kate~
There are several reasons to get married, and people use all of them. Its not the same for all people. Its a contract, how and who fulfills it is up to the parties involved. Its not a moral issue at all, but like most of us who went there found out, a legal issue.
Quote from: soldierjane on April 27, 2008, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: Elincubus on April 26, 2008, 04:27:37 PM
I do not think dirty old men would have married her--you overlooked the detail that she was M2F. ;)
Oh no, I didn't ;)
To my defence, I have to say that I didn't mean there weren't any dirty old men that would have
loved to marry her, but that I do not know any arranged-marriage societies where they could have done so.
Why do you think? ;) ;)
Quote from: Yvonne on April 27, 2008, 01:28:49 PM
Why do you think? ;) ;)
Well, do you know a arranged marriage society where a man (dirty and old or not ;)) could have married a boy? If you do please tell me, I'm always eager to learn something new.
Think Yvonne was responing to the "headline" question .... not responding to your comment :)
Can you imagine Yvonne having a wife ?
Laura x
Quote from: Laura Eva B on April 27, 2008, 02:00:43 PM
Think Yvonne was responing to the "headline" question .... not responding to your comment :)
Can you imagine Yvonne having a wife ?
Laura x
Lol I can't even imagine it myself :)
I've been in close contact with myself as a female as far back as I can remember. I was accepted by all of the other girls my age, which resulted in my becoming socialized as female well into my teen years. Without going into all of the messy details, this had the unfortunate effect of my not gaining the social skills needed to fit into society as a male. I was unable to get help for myself in 1970, and I never married because I was never able to maintain a relationship with a woman for more than a few weeks. Either the relationship would end when the woman just felt that I was "very different," or else the sexual part would end in disaster. Several women actually came out and said that being in bed with me was like being in bed with another woman. Being "read" by another woman in bed was one of the most damaging and painful experiences that I've had.
As a little girl, I wanted to grow up and be a mommy. As an adult, I wanted to stop being April, and I wanted to fit in as a male, marry, and have a typical male life. I have nothing but the greatest of respect and admiration for all of the people on this site, and elsewhere, who faced the same challenges that I did, and were able to make things work. People who were able to make their lives work. I tried, but never could. The absolute self acceptance that I have in myself as a woman may be of great benefit to me now, as I transition, but it contributed to a very unfulfilled, isolated and lonely life. I may have some very worthy accomplishments to be proud of, but my failures are always in the back of my mind. No, I could not be a mommy, but I very much wanted to marry and with that, I never had a chance.
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
Why didn't you have a wife?
For many reasons. Sexual reasons being the main one. It isn't in me to be with a woman in a sexual level. It's never happened and never will. ~laugh~ Quite true, marriage's not only about sex but it comes with the package. I still have to meet a couple straight or gay that doesn't have sex particularly if they are married.
QuoteI still have to meet a couple straight or gay that doesn't have sex particularly if they are married.
Statistics tell a different story. 16% of married Americans have not had sex in the last month.
Quote from: lisagurl on April 27, 2008, 05:20:20 PM
QuoteI still have to meet a couple straight or gay that doesn't have sex particularly if they are married.
Statistics tell a different story. 16% of married Americans have not had sex in the last month.
In the last month? ~laugh~ what about during their entire married lives?
Its a well known fact that marriage often cures nymphomania.
Quote from: Leslie on April 27, 2008, 04:59:40 PM
It isn't in me to be with a woman in a sexual level. It's never happened and never will.
But you haven't met Melissa90299 yet! ::) LOL ;D That's what she said to me when I posted the same thing on a different thread. What can I say? dreaming doesn't cost anything... >:D
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on April 27, 2008, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: Leslie on April 27, 2008, 04:59:40 PM
It isn't in me to be with a woman in a sexual level. It's never happened and never will.
But you haven't met Melissa90299 yet! ::) LOL ;D That's what she said to me when I posted the same thing on a different thread. What can I say? dreaming doesn't cost anything... >:D
O I am sure that any of us would go to bed with Melissa 90299 in a heartbeat, we just don't want to admit it!! Go on, Tink!! :laugh: :laugh:
Nichole
BTW, Lisa. How do they get those up-to-the-month statistics? Those guys must really work hard!!
N~
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on April 27, 2008, 08:36:19 PM
Quote from: Tink on April 27, 2008, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: Leslie on April 27, 2008, 04:59:40 PM
It isn't in me to be with a woman in a sexual level. It's never happened and never will.
But you haven't met Melissa90299 yet! ::) LOL ;D That's what she said to me when I posted the same thing on a different thread. What can I say? dreaming doesn't cost anything... >:D
tink :icon_chick:
ooohhhh....youre not saying youre unbanning her are you?
Of course not! LOL ;D She's banned for the year! But on second thoughts..hmmm...
Kidding! ;D
tink :icon_chick:
P.S. Nichole, why don't you go first and let me know how it goes.. >:D
Quote from: Tink on April 27, 2008, 08:39:25 PM
P.S. Nichole, why don't you go first and let me know how it goes.. >:D
:laugh: :laugh:
O, I just couldn't do that, Tink!! Depriving another of the privilege!!? I just couldn't. Besides, its much closer for you and somehow I just don't see me going across the country just for the privilege. :angel:
N~
I'm about as likely today to have a wife as a husband, no I never got married, and no I never plan to.
Did it make me any less a man or authentic to not get married to a woman? Hopefully no worse than it makes me less a woman or authentic to not get married to a man now.
Then again I'll probably wind up being one of those crazy cat-ladies that tries to marry her cat at 75 so she can leave her estate to it.
-Kit
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
I felt female from an early age
Me too
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
in the knowledge that I wouldn't ever want to get married
You had to do what you had to do to survive, it's very cool that you figured it out so young.
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
and felt because of my condition it wouldn't be fair on the future lady concerned.
I haven't heard of that happening much, I'm glad it happened to you. Many people force themselves to do things they never thought they'd do to survive. It's just a part of life and growing up.
Quote from: Berliegh on April 25, 2008, 07:06:22 AM
From about 13 onwards I dressed androgenously and had very long hair. Did anyone else take a similar path and avoid the marriage scenario altogether?
I had long hair many times, but I don't know how much of it was due to gender issues. I have always felt like I've known myself very well. My identity wasn't really defined by my clothing as much as my actions. I knew what was going on and I made a very conscious decision not to deal with it.
I don't think anyone really takes a similar path, you know, they all seem so varied and different. Like for me, I was ok pretending that I looked at girls the way others guys did. I was ok being married too. Like Kate said, since when is marriage defined by sexual interaction? I was married twice for a total of like 8 years and I could count on two hands the number of orgasms I had. It's funny how you can avoid situations you don't feel comfortable with and replace them with other things.
I think it's great that people can be honest with themselves from a young age and stuff, I feel like I did that to a large degree by the way I lived. Marriage is the legal union of two people who are supposed to love each other. I don't really think it matters whether someone "always knew they liked guys and couldn't think of being with a girl" in the larger scheme of things. Again, people can do amazing, amazing things including carrying on a charade about their sexual preference for many years. It happens to gay people all the time. You do what you have to do to survive.
At the root of marriage should be the ability to give someone your heart and have someone give you their's in return. It's hopefully an unconditional love. It knows no gender boundaries, it's not dependent on any conventional definitions, it's just these two people sharing and loving. That's a beautiful thing and I don't think it really reflects on someone good or bad as to whether they were ever married to a man or woman. What's the relationship based on, where is it today and how do both people feel about it. That, to me, is the true value in a relationship. Meghan
Shouldn't this thread be named "Mirror, Mirror, On The Wall" ??? ::)
Aeron
Quote from: Nichole on April 25, 2008, 11:15:51 AM
Actually, Berleigh, I imagine that you and others who never married are just more 'real' or 'moral' than those of us who did.
That does always seem to be an angle lurking in that question.
But, I wouldn't give up my very 'real' children for all the estrogen in the world.
N~
I understand that Nichole and I suppose it was a reaction to all the ''my wife' threads. But I did have 3 long term girlfriends but I wasn't ever able to produce sperm, so it is heartbreaking not being able to produce children. I would have loved to have children and I do sometimes get tears when I see friends with their kids...You are vey lucky Nicole and so are all the other people who are able to have children...