Jennifer asked about the female face in another topic today. I'm no expert but I've
spent a lot of time the past three or four months getting up to speed. I'd like
to share links here and also discuss what makes a face female looking.
Here are some good links that describe the female face:
http://www.answers.com/topic/facial-feminization-surgery-1?cat=health (http://www.answers.com/topic/facial-feminization-surgery-1?cat=health)
http://www.mtfsurgery.com/surgery_ffs.php (http://www.mtfsurgery.com/surgery_ffs.php)
http://www.beautyanalysis.com/mba_facevariationsbysex_page.htm (http://www.beautyanalysis.com/mba_facevariationsbysex_page.htm)
http://www.drdouglasousterhout.com/ffssurgery.htm (http://www.drdouglasousterhout.com/ffssurgery.htm)
http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/index.html (http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/index.html)
QuoteThe upper lip does interest me most of all because I constantly see women showing their top teeth more and in a very attractive way, something that is missing with men......do I make any sense? I call it the Billie Piper, Jodie Kidd mouth, this is one of the things I desire, perhaps more than a female facial surgury or a boob job because it is the small details that clinch it in the eyes of others that decide if I be considered a woman or not.. Jennifer
I think a face like this is perfect and would LOVE to have her nose, lips and chin:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2Fpretty.jpg&hash=3ab39f28f55c598fe74a73cebc848ea3dcc64443)
Yes... on women the upper lip is much shorter and the teeth normally show even when they are relaxed. It's funny becuase when
I was young I had a very short upper lip... so much so that my gums showed. I remember my mom taking me to the Dr to
see what could be done... he gave me some lip exercises that stretched the upper lip... I have no idea if that did it or
if I just outgrew it. I suspect I just out grew it.
But there is a technique called lip suspension that can give you that female look:
http://lipsuspension.com/ (http://lipsuspension.com/)
Amanda
Hi Amanda,
I know that feeling well, the feeling of searching around and looking for info to feel like maybe, just maybe it's possible, you know what I mean. These are informative, thank you. I know in my case the Dr. said he was going to lift my upper lip by about 2 mm. When I smiled he really liked my smile, he said it was a feminine smile, but that he wants to bring the upper lip up just a tiny bit, which I'm ok with.
I'm a little nervous because I don't want my gums showing, but I think it will have a bigger impact on my resting position than smiling. I already promised you that I'd share all the details, so just be prepared. I'll try to give warning because you know the photos will be really, really graphic, lol. Anyway, good articles :)
I've found this site to be very useful re: feminine beauty, though it goes beyond just the face:
http://www.secondtype.com/beauty.htm (http://www.secondtype.com/beauty.htm)
Sorry I can't write more, I'm still flat on my back in the hospital and can't see the keys on the keyboard ;)
Lia
Hi Genovais, I believe you could give the models in your link a run for their money. ;D ;D ;D
Also sending prayers that you be well. hon
Cindy
what i always wanted to know was, how do females manage to do that face that mixes both pity and disdain.
Hi Pica Pica. Not certain about the disdain and Pity I am not to familiar with disdain, but pity yea, the positive kind by doing whatever one can do to help that individual or individuals. Like that street lady where Wing Walker and I at least gave her some of our time and attention in that restaurant about two months ago. Even now working in the women's shelter is a good way to help those in need. Well that has always been a good chunk of my life.
I still can play the suck though, with Wing Walker and love it, never going to grow up. I am who I am and I care for those in need and always ready to reach out to them.
Cindy
QuoteI've found this site to be very useful re: feminine beauty, though it goes beyond just the face:
http://www.secondtype.com/beauty.htm
Sorry I can't write more, I'm still flat on my back in the hospital and can't see the keys on the keyboard Wink
Lia
Thanks Lia, that's a great site... it's amazing the subtle difference between the average face and the
beautiful face.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondtype.com%2Fimages%2Ffacea.gif&hash=eaf123cd5346c8c6a0b576736617c74760fe9b79)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondtype.com%2Fimages%2Ffaceb.gif&hash=72ae57075e1cc76c5488665b6839d35077846bba)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondtype.com%2Fimages%2Ffacec.gif&hash=0820c3b2d07cc0998dbffdffea455836c67417e2)
I also love to see the difference makeup makes:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondtype.com%2Fimages%2Fmakeup1.jpg&hash=2bb804122563598527748e1d19ffef13a21f086a)
I think the before picture could pass for a young boy.
Hope you are feeling well Lia.
Amanda
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on May 14, 2008, 04:56:54 PM
QuoteThe upper lip does interest me most of all because I constantly see women showing their top teeth more and in a very attractive way, something that is missing with men......do I make any sense? I call it the Billie Piper, Jodie Kidd mouth, this is one of the things I desire, perhaps more than a female facial surgury or a boob job because it is the small details that clinch it in the eyes of others that decide if I be considered a woman or not.. Jennifer
I think a face like this is perfect and would LOVE to have her nose, lips and chin:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2Fpretty.jpg&hash=3ab39f28f55c598fe74a73cebc848ea3dcc64443)
Yes... on women the upper lip is much shorter and the teeth normally show even when they are relaxed. It's funny becuase when
I was young I had a very short upper lip... so much so that my gums showed. I remember my mom taking me to the Dr to
see what could be done... he gave me some lip exercises that stretched the upper lip... I have no idea if that did it or
if I just outgrew it. I suspect I just out grew it.
But there is a technique called lip suspension that can give you that female look:
http://lipsuspension.com/ (http://lipsuspension.com/)
Amanda
i agree she really is beautifull... but is she that feminine? in my oopinion her facial
features are somewhere at 2/3 female and 1/3male
jaw is way wider than average female, and there is browing area is slightly convex
on the other hand if TS had full FFS she would have all this overereduced...
Does (i call it extreme) FFS, where EVERYTHING is done, actually geperdise beauty?
Quotei agree she really is beautifull... but is she that feminine? in my oopinion her facial
features are somewhere at 2/3 female and 1/3male
jaw is way wider than average female, and there is browing area is slightly convex
on the other hand if TS had full FFS she would have all this overereduced...
Does (i call it extreme) FFS, where EVERYTHING is done, actually geperdise beauty?
I think everything you say is right... she is more manly than feminine... maybe she
has a face that is achievable for a lot of us. I think for someone that looked liked
this pre-FFS would not look better after FFS.
Amanda
Basicly i could go on and on about my view of FFS... I was going to start
a topic this time around.
Even the name of FFS is smth i don't like. For very few extermely masculine
TS woman, if they do complete facial reconstruction, have every trait of
their face modified... than yes, it is FFS.
But vast majority of women don't actually need what is called FFS. Let's say
Lady Camilla Parker-Bowles, who in my opinion facially looks like an average
TS woman, decides to undergo some MAXILOFACIAL AESTHETIC
SURGERY... how would we call it? well just that:facial aesthetic surgery...
numerous woman have facial surgery... rhinoplasty, brow lift, chin countering
and in most aces that is just it... no special label
Particulary if TS woman is already "passable" and goes for "FFS" to make herself
more beautiful, than name FFS should be either excluded or applied to every other
woman having any aesthetic facial surgery
This reminds me of a Dove soap ad I saw on YouTube a little while ago. Actually, to be honest, I went and searched for it as a salve for the dysphoria wave that hit me on seeing the Amanda's first post. (Not a complaint Amanda, that's just life.)
"The Distortion of Beauty"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PWdW4BruF4
~Alyssa
Quote from: Alyssa M. on June 03, 2008, 05:18:39 PM
This reminds me of a Dove soap ad I saw on YouTube a little while ago. Actually, to be honest, I went and searched for it as a salve for the dysphoria wave that hit me on seeing the Amanda's first post. (Not a complaint Amanda, that's just life.)
"The Distortion of Beauty"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PWdW4BruF4
~Alyssa
Yeah, I often think women in times past had better self esteem looks wise cause they weren't bombarded with fake, perfect images everywhere. Nowadays the standard of beauty is a joke what with all these fake ads and such.
QuoteBasicly i could go on and on about my view of FFS... I was going to start
a topic this time around.
Even the name of FFS is smth i don't like. For very few extermely masculine
TS woman, if they do complete facial reconstruction, have every trait of
their face modified... than yes, it is FFS.
But vast majority of women don't actually need what is called FFS. Let's say
Lady Camilla Parker-Bowles, who in my opinion facially looks like an average
TS woman, decides to undergo some MAXILOFACIAL AESTHETIC
SURGERY... how would we call it? well just that:facial aesthetic surgery...
numerous woman have facial surgery... rhinoplasty, brow lift, chin countering
and in most aces that is just it... no special label
Particulary if TS woman is already "passable" and goes for "FFS" to make herself
more beautiful, than name FFS should be either excluded or applied to every other
woman having any aesthetic facial surgery
Mari, I think you're totally right... I tend to call ANY plastic surgery for me FFS... becuase in my
case ANY surgery would make me more passable. I think I'm somewhat passable without it and I
guess for me surgery would be to improve how I feel about my face and yes I guess to be prettier. But
common things like rhinoplasty are obviously not in the same category as full FFS, which a lot
of surgeons want to give you even if you don't need it.
And I totally admit Alyssa and Nero that I've been totally brain washed by the fake, airbrushed, skinny, made up
models that dominate the media... but I'm in such good company with a large portion of the female
population falling for the same thing. It seems to me every women these days has to compete with the "porn star" look
to be considered attractive. Of course that's just not right but it's the world we live in. Maybe someday things will change
and the masculine TS look will come into vogue lol.
Amanda
Quote from: Always Amanda on June 04, 2008, 11:15:30 AM
Mari, I think you're totally right... I tend to call ANY plastic surgery for me FFS... becuase in my
case ANY surgery would make me more passable. I think I'm somewhat passable without it and I
guess for me surgery would be to improve how I feel about my face and yes I guess to be prettier. But
common things like rhinoplasty are obviously not in the same category as full FFS, which a lot
of surgeons want to give you even if you don't need it.
And I totally admit Alyssa and Nero that I've been totally brain washed by the fake, airbrushed, skinny, made up
models that dominate the media... but I'm in such good company with a large portion of the female
population falling for the same thing. It seems to me every women these days has to compete with the "porn star" look
to be considered attractive. Of course that's just not right but it's the world we live in. Maybe someday things will change
and the masculine TS look will come into vogue lol.
Amanda
I completely understand everything you said, and support everyone to do
everything for thamselves, that they feel is appropriate. I was just trying
to point out that in transwomen, just like in biological woman, there are
great variations in terms of both feminity and beauty
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.cleveland.com%2Flifestyles%2Fmedium_marilyn.jpg&hash=2c9aa358a7c10538008ecdc07cbc44db1063b3fe) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmsnbcmedia.msn.com%2Fj%2Fmsnbc%2FComponents%2FPhotos%2F070827%2F070827_camilla_hmed_140a.h2.jpg&hash=231173496c7f956343fb9bc901dbf3cffc0f871f)
From the pictures of you Amanda, that i have seen, i believe that you
definetly don't fall under the category of "needing" FFS. So....
-best wishes-
Yes you are very right... there is so much variation... I think it's amazing that
there are so many of us on the planet and not one of us looks exactly
like the other (twins excluded).
QuoteFrom the pictures of you Amanda, that i have seen, i believe that you
definetly don't fall under the category of "needing" FFS. So....
-best wishes-
That is very kind, thank you for the self esteem boost Mari.
Amanda
The ideal of female beauty is ironically, not the average women.
Most models and even actresses have distinctly male features,
just as most male models and actors have more "female" faces
than the average male.
Beauty is fully androgynous.
Look at brad pitt, or Johnny depp,
are they the epithome of maleness? Pitt has a small build,
small jawline, a small mouth,
chin and nose, not much brow bossing and solid
hairline. There is a reason why he's always has
a scruffy beard in all his movies. Same thing
with Johnny Depp.
Male models these days have a 27-28 inch waist are barely taller
than female models and small to medium builds, and the devellopping
muscles of a 16 year old, very lean
and thin. Most of them would pass as female with not much
makeup...
Those like O who promote always a full FFS may get you to look female, but
you'll part of your facial identity in the process and may not look as good
as you would with a more conservative piecewise approach (one or two
operations at a time starting by the most egregious). The jaw width
is the one that is the most often over corrected in my opinion. The
standard of beauty is a substantial jaw width, which we have already
and most women don't and which they had. It is jaw/chin height that
is the gender marker, not its width.
Beauty comes from within. Likewise femininity.
That's my six pence worth.
Louise
I've been studying female faces for the past couple of months ... I feel like I need
to understand what beauty is. I know it when I see it... I just can't fully describe it.
Here are 25 faces that I think are very attractive. I picked them because many have a nose that is big
or different, which I think is my biggest problem. I also think most of them have the wider square jaw and smaller
chin height that Keira pointed out.
And I think a lot of them look very masculine... does anyone else see that?
If you want to comment on an individual photo use this legend:
1 2 3 4 5
A
B
C
D
E
And... there is at least one transsexual in the group... can anyone spot her?
Amanda
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2Ffull.jpg&hash=17c5cf92d8080e50aece540a1c10f8635f152e80)
Quote from: Always Amanda on June 05, 2008, 12:29:32 PM
And... there is at least one transsexual in the group... can anyone spot her?
Nope. I can't tell which one's transsexual. It doesn't matter as long as she's happy with herself as she is now.
Quote from: Always Amanda on June 05, 2008, 12:29:32 PM
And I think a lot of them look very masculine... does anyone else see that?
And... there is at least one transsexual in the group... can anyone spot her?
Amanda
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2Ffull.jpg&hash=17c5cf92d8080e50aece540a1c10f8635f152e80)
Yes I have to agree with you Amanda with alot having a slightly masculine or androgynous face. As spotting the TS it is quite rough...I'm going to take a shot here and say its (1C). If I'm right what do I win.... ;D ;)
gina
If I had to guess, it would be 3C for the TS
Because of the robust mid face cheekbone
(robustness of the facial bones is a male trait).
and the eyes. But... Maybe she's not :D
Anyway, they all look good to me so hey!
1A has a strong jaw and looks very beautiful,
she probably models (if she's the TS, so be it Hehehe).
In my opinion, if you are a TS and
look like any of these and you get
substantial FFS (beyond a nose job)
you need therapy badly.
I just don't know. I'm going to guess 2A.
QuoteIf I'm right what do I win....
Gina... you win an all expense paid trip to... lol... no... too expensive.... ummm... how about
the best T-DAR award?
I'm not going to say who it is just yet... I'll let a few more guesses come in. There is actually
more than one... three of the girls are transsexual and I would say very lucky indeed to have the
features they have. I will be floored if anyone gets all three. I have to admit I did choose a couple
of GG's that look maybe TS... just to make it interesting.
The thing that really stood out to me was how masculine really pretty girls look. And it really helped me
to see how all noses are FAR from perfect and you can be very attractive without that perfect nose. I think
small tweaking would get mine to be as good as many of these.
Another thing that stands out to me is the chin on these women. With the exception of E4 they all have
delicate narrow and short chins. And most have fairly small mouths. It would seem that on us chin work is
fairly simple and seems to be a BIG marker.
QuoteIn my opinion, if you are a TS and
look like any of these and you get
substantial FFS (beyond a nose job)
you need therapy badly.
Agreed... Keira... these are all beautiful ladies.
I need to probably say this... if someone here is one of these ladies... please forgive me for using your
picture... but also know that I only used it becuase you are so beautiful. If you are offended and
you contact me privately I will remove the picture.
Amanda
Oh, fun -- spot-the-->-bleeped-<- where it's guaranteed that you're going to get lots of "false positives"!
I would guess none if you hadn't said otherwise ... but if I have to choose, I'll guess A5 (upper right). She has a strong jawline, longer face, perhaps a hint of brow ridge, maybe her hairstyle is trying to divert attention ... but it's far from obvious. Can I cheat by going to Lynn Conway's page?
QuoteOh, fun -- spot-the-->-bleeped-<- where it's guaranteed that you're going to get lots of "false positives"!
I did not intend for it to be "spot-the-->-bleeped-<-"... just a study of female faces :) I hope no one is offended.
I can see what you mean about A5 and C3 as Keira guessed.
What does Lynn Conway have on her page?
Amanda
Amanda, in the context it's not offensive because there are so many false positives -- at least it's not offensive to me. I was just being a bit flippant. By being so difficult, the whole "game" seems a little ridiculous, and it makes passing seem more possible to those of us who worry about it.
Lynn Conway has a "Transsexual Women's Successes (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html)" page. (She has a "Successsful Transmen (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TransMen.html)" page as well.) It's good browsing. I love reading through the titles -- "customs officer, software entrepreneur, architect, aerobics intstructor, proiducer, recording artist, IT manager, OBGYN" ...
"physicist" :D
Lynn Conway is sort of my hero.:icon_love: Her site probably more than anything else has helped me get over all my feelings of guilt and freakishness. She's the anti-Baily.
~Alyssa
Quotemakes passing seem more possible to those of us who worry about it.
That's what I got out of all these too... there are a few perfect faces in the world... but
none of these are... they are beautiful... not perfect.
QuoteLynn Conway has a "Transsexual Women's Successes" page. (She has a "Successsful Transmen" page as well.) It's good browsing. I love reading through the titles -- "customs officer, software entrepreneur, architect, aerobics intstructor, proiducer, recording artist, IT manager, OBGYN" ...
I've not seen that site before... but it's very cool... I'm going to have some reading to do. Thanks :)
Amanda
They are all very beautiful. I shall guess:
A2, B5 and E2.
I would guess 2nd Row, 5th Picture (B5 I think?). She just seems to stand out to me as different than the others.
Interestingly, most of these women just don't look *that* attractive to ME. I mean I can see their beauty, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I think there was 1 or 2 photos that did sort of appeal to me though.
All I ever wanted in terms of beauty was to be able to not wear any makeup and be undeniably seen as female. When I first started I thought I would need loads of FFS to get there, but I've not had any surgeries towards transitions and I'm already at that point, so I'm happy with my looks. The only reason I would consider FFS is if I decided to pursue acting as a career, but I think that kind of goes for many women.
There is a site, women with large jaw which serves to prove that actually wide square jaws is not a male marker, again
its the CHIN HEIGHT and SHAPE that's important. Its womenlargejaw.com
This is a small sample, all of them have very very sucessfull carreers, half the women in hollywood, music and
almost all supermodels have what could be termed atypical female jaws, yet they are seen as beautiful.
Geena Davis, Oscar winner
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Ffiles%2Fwomen%2FNewgeena08_1187780581.jpg&hash=2546c5cc8487fa859dc8f9372c87485fc307cb82)
Model Aurelie Claudel
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Ffiles%2Fwomen%2FAurelie_claudel1_vs_2000_1187779300.jpg&hash=2ab246989576eb9a2085e91b19b43db395127031)
Michelle Pfeifer
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Ffiles%2Fwomen%2FMpfeiffer_wo_1188222681.jpg&hash=c16751f7859bd22e968e9e53aed3b468c6b22436)
Emily Deschanel, star of the TV serie Bones
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Ffiles%2Fwomen%2F20th_annual_genesis_awards_12_1187793256.jpg&hash=e635a191b4ba643cd1df07ebf95d6db09d20fc7f)
Shalom Harlow, one of the top 10 supermodels of the 90's
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Ffiles%2Fwomen%2FShalom-al0799d_1187789458.jpg&hash=8bd90640c8a86a59af72be668f9a14a04759c4e4)
Miss Switzerland
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.womenlargejaw.com%2Ffiles%2Fwomen%2FDdd_1201527977.jpg&hash=840804f90debde35203470f7cd983f0b2d0c089e)
And the winner is Maddie and Virgina... with one correct... A2.
The funny thing is I don't think she looks anymore masculine than any of the others. I think it may be the
shape of her eyes or eye shadow that gives her away.
Anyway the girls that are transsexuals are A2, C2 and D5. All very pretty and feminine and in real life
probably have no problems at all passing. I think C2 is one of the prettiest of all the girls.
I saw A5, B3, C1, C3, C5, D2 as more masculine than any of the transsexuals.
Amanda
Quote from: Keira on June 06, 2008, 04:55:32 PM
There is a site, women with large jaw which serves to prove that actually wide square jaws is not a male marker, again
its the CHIN HEIGHT and SHAPE that's important. Its womenlargejaw.com
That's interesting. Apparently I naturally have a female chin height and shape...at least according to Dr. Ousterhout. :)
at least half of the girls are more trans-looking than A2 is
I don't really know why I picked A2. It was just a hunch really. If I had to put my finger on it I guess it's the forehead and chin. She still has a bit of brow bossing and the same shape head as my dad.
Quote from: louise000 on June 05, 2008, 09:53:15 AM
Beauty comes from within. Likewise femininity.
That's my six pence worth.
Louise
At a great risk of sound like an ***, I want to say that the fact that you are NOT beautiful (as the average person would define feminity), yet so purely feminine in your thoughts, evident in your writing, is something to behold. I wish that more people on this Earth were like you, and that socieity would realize that feminity and masculinity shouldn't be defined by how we look, but rather how we feel. I think the whole feminity/masculinity thing is such bullcrap. Please know that you're a real inspiration to me! ;)
Aeron
I think all the girls are drop dead gorgeous! ;D
My jaw is going to get a seeing to very soon. :)
It isn't really large, but still out of female range. I hope I will be happy with the results, anyway it will 'enhance my femininity', using Doctors words. lol
If you can make some of your dreams come true, just grab it with both hands and do it. I just hope they have enough pain killers, but gotta to admit I have a high tolerance for pain, if I start complaining it must be bad. lol :laugh:
That is awesome, what's the date of your surgery Buttercup... or should we just wait to see if you start complaining? :)
Amanda
What a bunch of beautiful of faces. I would have guessed wrong. But I am just in awe of those lips. I've always wanted to have nice full lips like that.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: AeronTG on June 17, 2008, 12:20:49 AM
Quote from: louise000 on June 05, 2008, 09:53:15 AM
Beauty comes from within. Likewise femininity.
That's my six pence worth.
Louise
At a great risk of sound like an ***, I want to say that the fact that you are NOT beautiful (as the average person would define feminity), yet so purely feminine in your thoughts, evident in your writing, is something to behold. I wish that more people on this Earth were like you, and that socieity would realize that feminity and masculinity shouldn't be defined by how we look, but rather how we feel. I think the whole feminity/masculinity thing is such bullcrap. Please know that you're a real inspiration to me! ;)
Aeron
Thank you Aeron sooo much for your kind words (and honest opinion!) . Yes I know I'm plain but it doesn't bother me. There are plenty more genetic girls like me. As a guy I was an idiot but the hormones are definitely helping in that respect, I just want people to like me when they meet me even if I'm not at all pretty :) Louise
I thought these were very inspirational pictures of women that were less than
they could be before their makeover. They have all had plastic surgery, I think most if
not all had a rhinoplasty to reduce a large nose.
I think hair style and makeup had more to do with it than the plastic
surgery in some cases.
It's an amazing difference all in all. Very pretty women.
Amanda
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO1.jpg&hash=2dd32fc83f7c3495d7e23d6d6b0c7ea5e28a8f76)
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(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO3.jpg&hash=984284eac6cbcdca79fbfaff2d68bac32cb7fd38)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO4.jpg&hash=f91bacfb3f80f6b877eb8b2b4d1a8fa3f87b7487)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO5.jpg&hash=6789d4228d25bbad63740194464ec12d9a2c691e)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO6.jpg&hash=4401464e40e05b65922481cb7e4c30544f64407d)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO7.jpg&hash=50710752fb4deb1cacdb0f57c40211be1a8c063e)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO8.jpg&hash=defa02970a22aa56501addfae321e0339737f7c4)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO9.jpg&hash=580d5a51e72cb727a2a15ad556a7cd82897dd002)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO10.jpg&hash=bccda89f4e016f797a109b9d7a63c3a3823b83c7)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO11.jpg&hash=4acd26d0e915b0b6141c31c420c724bc06d9085b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO12.jpg&hash=aa7b295007a28b7c6724093b3647b3b4335a529d)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg112%2Falways-amanda%2FMO13.jpg&hash=0a242ccc692406028c95a274ae08f200759e26fc)
And these are the same girls? "Wow!" that is incredible.
Cindy
theres a few wows in there,
off the t.v. programme extreme makeovers?? well eitherway can i have the no of their suregeon plz :)
On a serious note it just shows what can be achieved to people who say that you cannot ever pass as a female, which ive been reading alot lately on the ffs support group. Something i strongly disagree with as money talks in any language.
On another note i found an interesting article from someone about using one of the big 4 if your considering ffs and the virtues of using them as a one stop shop. I will post it up in the relevant thread when i find the author to credit quote and ask admin if i can 1st ofcourse.
Unless your Leslie or keira for instance (whos surgeons were in a godly mood when they went creating) and ended up like athena and eve :)
Vanna X
Okay, I got a system warning that this topic was near dormant and advising me to start a new topic but no way girls, not good enough. :(
I have read all of your responses and I still ask the same question, "what makes for a female face?"
I see all the photographic representations on here, I see all the women at large in my community, and also know my own face and how all the men look facially, and look at me generally by being abusive.
My underlying difficulty is how to seperate the male from the female, establish the differences and rectify them, hopefully without the need of a surgeon.
Is it it a genetic thing?
Is it a hormone therapy thing?
Is it something needing castration?
Is is just good luck thing?
Is it a Magic thing?
Is it a special connection to a religion ( Islam/Anglican/Hindu/Judaism ( I dismiss Catholiscim due to past conflict with a priest )
We all know a man when we see one and a woman likewise but do we make that decision based upon the overall image or based upon what we see of the person's face? I have dainty little hands, often commented upon, small feet for a male, a gentle nature and a seemingly feminine projection, minus my masculine hairy face :(
I have met with a woman and not known that she was once a male, such is the wonder of our condition.
I hope you can see my difficulty here and maybe help me understand where I may be going wrong and what I need to do to diminish the constant hostility that remains my daily outdoors life in this sleepy town called ->-bleeped-<-ch :'(
Quote from: JENNIFER on October 12, 2008, 05:10:49 PM
Okay, I got a system warning that this topic was near dormant and advising me to start a new topic but no way girls, not good enough. :(
I have read all of your responses and I still ask the same question, "what makes for a female face?"
I see all the photographic representations on here, I see all the women at large in my community, and also know my own face and how all the men look facially, and look at me generally by being abusive.
My underlying difficulty is how to seperate the male from the female, establish the differences and rectify them, hopefully without the need of a surgeon.
Is it it a genetic thing?
Is it a hormone therapy thing?
Is it something needing castration?
Is is just good luck thing?
Is it a Magic thing?
Is it a special connection to a religion ( Islam/Anglican/Hindu/Judaism ( I dismiss Catholiscim due to past conflict with a priest )
We all know a man when we see one and a woman likewise but do we make that decision based upon the overall image or based upon what we see of the person's face? I have dainty little hands, often commented upon, small feet for a male, a gentle nature and a seemingly feminine projection, minus my masculine hairy face :(
I have met with a woman and not known that she was once a male, such is the wonder of our condition.
I hope you can see my difficulty here and maybe help me understand where I may be going wrong and what I need to do to diminish the constant hostility that remains my daily outdoors life in this sleepy town called ->-bleeped-<-ch :'(
Overall image, I'd say.
Quote from: Nero on October 12, 2008, 05:24:31 PM
Quote from: JENNIFER on October 12, 2008, 05:10:49 PM
Okay, I got a system warning that this topic was near dormant and advising me to start a new topic but no way girls, not good enough. :(
I have read all of your responses and I still ask the same question, "what makes for a female face?"
I see all the photographic representations on here, I see all the women at large in my community, and also know my own face and how all the men look facially, and look at me generally by being abusive.
My underlying difficulty is how to seperate the male from the female, establish the differences and rectify them, hopefully without the need of a surgeon.
Is it it a genetic thing?
Is it a hormone therapy thing?
Is it something needing castration?
Is is just good luck thing?
Is it a Magic thing?
Is it a special connection to a religion ( Islam/Anglican/Hindu/Judaism ( I dismiss Catholiscim due to past conflict with a priest )
We all know a man when we see one and a woman likewise but do we make that decision based upon the overall image or based upon what we see of the person's face? I have dainty little hands, often commented upon, small feet for a male, a gentle nature and a seemingly feminine projection, minus my masculine hairy face :(
I have met with a woman and not known that she was once a male, such is the wonder of our condition.
I hope you can see my difficulty here and maybe help me understand where I may be going wrong and what I need to do to diminish the constant hostility that remains my daily outdoors life in this sleepy town called ->-bleeped-<-ch :'(
Overall image, I'd say.
How to write a response to an essay with 4 words? Ask our Nero
I was going to use two.... 'the lot'.
Hi Jennifer :)
I can only give you input from my experience and issues with my facial structure but here
are my thoughts.
QuoteIs it it a genetic thing?
I think that some guys just have more feminine faces than some, so I think yes genetics does
play a role in the basic facial structure. And I think you have a very pretty facial structure.
QuoteIs it a hormone therapy thing?
Yes, to a degree. Hormones will not change your bone structure but it will add a layer of fat in
all the right places. I know that prior to HRT my cheek bones were very hard and now they look
much more rounded and softer. I was convinced that I needed cheek implants to soften the upper
cheek area now I'm not so sure.
QuoteIs it something needing castration?
HRT is castration for the most part.
QuoteIs is just good luck thing?
Yes to some extent, you need to start with somewhat feminine bone structure. By the way I think you do
have a feminine base structure.
QuoteIs it a Magic thing?
If you consider HRT magic :) (and it is) then yes :)
QuoteIs it a special connection to a religion ( Islam/Anglican/Hindu/Judaism ( I dismiss Catholiscim due to past conflict with a priest )
Partially... you need to worship at the house of HRT :)
QuoteWe all know a man when we see one and a woman likewise but do we make that decision based upon the overall image or based upon what we see of the person's face? I have dainty little hands, often commented upon, small feet for a male, a gentle nature and a seemingly feminine projection, minus my masculine hairy face Sad
I think that what you have to do is change the markers that define what gender you are seen as. I know personally that even in boy
mode I am causing people to question what I really am. This weekend my wife and I were shopping and my wife walked away as I
finished up. The checker said to me "You girls have fun" as I left. My wife was out of ear shot but I just said thank
you and went on my way. It's an amazing feeling every time that happens and it starts to happen more and more the longer
you are on HRT. The first time you just want to say... "What???" and then it happens again and again.
I think for me it's part luck, I was given a somewhat feminine facial structure and a light beard. But HRT has given me very soft
and smooth facial skin (well actually all over). But I think for me it's more than just my face, it's the entire package. HRT has
reduced very significantly the space that I occupy. There are very few adult men in this day that are sub 150lbs and my breasts
are to the point where I cannot wear just a shirt. I'm also to the point where I can't wear male jeans any longer becuase the
smallest waist size, 28in is too loose, but my butt and thighs are too big. A size 5 or 6 is perfect. And while my breasts are
still A cup on a flat tummy and skinny waist they really look big. I've started wearing compression shirts to control things. So
all this put together makes people at least question what I am and all this is in boy mode, no makeup, no jewelry, no earrings,
no other markers to give them a clue. Once I'm fulltime and able to dress and accessorize as a female and have my facial hair
removed, there just won't be a question. Prior to HRT I was never mamm'ed so I've got to believe that HRT can make a
difference if you start with a reasonable base. You will hear so many girls here who never though they would pass(me included)
and magically they do. I'm not sure where you are in the HRT process but give it time. It will work. And if you remember, people here
were telling me the exact same thing just last year. And also keep in mind that it's the entire package, not just you're face.
Your walk, how you move, your mannerisms all contribute to how you are seen.
Hugs,
Amanda
Thank you Amanda and as usual, a very well written piece of work. It has given me something to think about and maybe I should not beat myself up so much.
You were very kind with your assessment of my looks and to answer your query, No, I am not on prescription HRT yet. I am seeing the doctor at the gender clinic this week to find out when I may start HRT. This has been delayed owing to an underlying medical event that means there are certain risks with high dose medications hence my asking if castration ( physical ) was one of the keys to getting a more feminine face.
Once more, thank you Amanda :)
Hi Amanda, it's wonderful to hear about the progress you have experienced thus far. I mmentioned that if HRT could do what it did to an old duck like me that it might be worth your time to wait a little to see what HRT does for you. Anyway I am looking forward to seeing a new pic of you soon.
Have a wonderful day
Cindy
Quote from: gina on June 05, 2008, 05:56:54 PM
Quote from: Always Amanda on June 05, 2008, 12:29:32 PM
And I think a lot of them look very masculine... does anyone else see that?
And... there is at least one transsexual in the group... can anyone spot her?
Amanda
Yes I have to agree with you Amanda with alot having a slightly masculine or androgynous face. As spotting the TS it is quite rough...I'm going to take a shot here and say its (1C). If I'm right what do I win.... ;D ;)
gina
If Gina means column 1, third row down - I agree.
Helo,
i´m new in this forum, i posted a blog one week ago in another topic and nobody in "FFS forehead techniques".
Sorry, i´m not speaking english good.
The next weeks I visit Dr. frans noorman van der dussen in belgium, he is only the one pople who can operate the forehead in europe, i heard. Is ist so?
Best wishes,.