The Female Face... everything you always wanted to know

[Just Mandy]

Jennifer asked about the female face in another topic today. I'm no expert but I've
spent a lot of time the past three or four months getting up to speed. I'd like
to share links here and also discuss what makes a face female looking.

Here are some good links that describe the female face:

http://www.answers.com/topic/facial-feminization-surgery-1?cat=health 🔗
http://www.mtfsurgery.com/surgery_ffs.php 🔗
http://www.beautyanalysis.com/mba_facevariationsbysex_page.htm 🔗
http://www.drdouglasousterhout.com/ffssurgery.htm 🔗
http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/index.html 🔗

The upper lip does interest me most of all because I constantly see women showing their top teeth more and in a very attractive way, something that is missing with men......do I make any sense?  I call it the Billie Piper, Jodie Kidd mouth, this is one of the things I desire, perhaps more than a female facial surgury or a boob job because it is the small details that clinch it in the eyes of others that decide if I be considered a woman or not.. Jennifer

I think a face like this is perfect and would LOVE to have her nose, lips and chin:


Yes... on women the upper lip is much shorter and the teeth normally show even when they are relaxed. It's funny becuase when
I was young I had a very short upper lip... so much so that my gums showed. I remember my mom taking me to the Dr to
see what could be done... he gave me some lip exercises that stretched the upper lip... I have no idea if that did it or
if I just outgrew it. I suspect I just out grew it.

But there is a technique called lip suspension that can give you that female look:

http://lipsuspension.com/ 🔗

Amanda

[MeghanAndrews]

Hi Amanda,
I know that feeling well, the feeling of searching around and looking for info to feel like maybe, just maybe it's possible, you know what I mean. These are informative, thank you. I know in my case the Dr. said he was going to lift my upper lip by about 2 mm. When I smiled he really liked my smile, he said it was a feminine smile, but that he wants to bring the upper lip up just a tiny bit, which I'm ok with.

I'm a little nervous because I don't want my gums showing, but I think it will have a bigger impact on my resting position than smiling. I already promised you that I'd share all the details, so just be prepared. I'll try to give warning because you know the photos will be really, really graphic, lol. Anyway, good articles 🙂

[Purple Pimp]

I've found this site to be very useful re: feminine beauty, though it goes beyond just the face:

http://www.secondtype.com/beauty.htm 🔗

Sorry I can't write more, I'm still flat on my back in the hospital and can't see the keys on the keyboard 

Lia

[cindybc]

Hi Genovais, I believe you could give the models in your link a run for their money. 
Also sending prayers that you be well. hon

Cindy

[Pica Pica]

what i always wanted to know was, how do females manage to do that face that mixes both pity and disdain.

[cindybc]

Hi Pica Pica. Not certain about the disdain and Pity I am not to familiar with disdain, but pity yea, the positive kind by doing whatever one can do to help that individual or individuals. Like that street lady where Wing Walker and I at least gave her some of our time and attention in that restaurant about two months ago. Even now working in the women's shelter is a good way to help those in need. Well that has always been a good chunk of my life.

I still can play the suck though, with Wing Walker and love it, never going to grow up. I am who I am and I care for those in need and always ready to reach out to them.

Cindy

[Just Mandy]

I've found this site to be very useful re: feminine beauty, though it goes beyond just the face:

http://www.secondtype.com/beauty.htm 🔗

Sorry I can't write more, I'm still flat on my back in the hospital and can't see the keys on the keyboard  Wink

Lia

Thanks Lia, that's a great site... it's amazing the subtle difference between the average face and the
beautiful face.



I also love to see the difference makeup makes:



I think the before picture could pass for a young boy.


Hope you are feeling well Lia.

Amanda

[Mari]

The upper lip does interest me most of all because I constantly see women showing their top teeth more and in a very attractive way, something that is missing with men......do I make any sense?  I call it the Billie Piper, Jodie Kidd mouth, this is one of the things I desire, perhaps more than a female facial surgury or a boob job because it is the small details that clinch it in the eyes of others that decide if I be considered a woman or not.. Jennifer

I think a face like this is perfect and would LOVE to have her nose, lips and chin:


Yes... on women the upper lip is much shorter and the teeth normally show even when they are relaxed. It's funny becuase when
I was young I had a very short upper lip... so much so that my gums showed. I remember my mom taking me to the Dr to
see what could be done... he gave me some lip exercises that stretched the upper lip... I have no idea if that did it or
if I just outgrew it. I suspect I just out grew it.

But there is a technique called lip suspension that can give you that female look:

http://lipsuspension.com/ 🔗

Amanda

i agree she really is beautifull... but is she that feminine? in my oopinion her facial
features are somewhere at 2/3 female and 1/3male
jaw is way wider than average female, and there is browing area is slightly convex
on the other hand if TS had full FFS she would have all this overereduced...
Does (i call it extreme) FFS, where EVERYTHING is done, actually geperdise beauty?

[Just Mandy]

i agree she really is beautifull... but is she that feminine? in my oopinion her facial
features are somewhere at 2/3 female and 1/3male
jaw is way wider than average female, and there is browing area is slightly convex
on the other hand if TS had full FFS she would have all this overereduced...
Does (i call it extreme) FFS, where EVERYTHING is done, actually geperdise beauty?

I think everything you say is right... she is more manly than feminine... maybe she
has a face that is achievable for a lot of us. I think for someone that looked liked
this pre-FFS would not look better after FFS.

Amanda

[Mari]

Basicly i could go on and on about my view of FFS... I was going to start
a topic this time around.
Even the name of FFS is smth i don't like. For very few extermely masculine
TS woman, if they do complete facial reconstruction, have every trait of
their face modified... than yes, it is FFS.
But vast majority of women don't actually need what is called FFS. Let's say
Lady Camilla Parker-Bowles, who in my opinion facially looks  like an average
TS woman, decides to undergo some MAXILOFACIAL AESTHETIC
SURGERY... how would we call it? well just that:facial aesthetic surgery...
numerous woman have facial surgery... rhinoplasty, brow lift, chin countering
and in most aces that is just it... no special label
Particulary if TS woman is already "passable" and goes for "FFS" to make herself
more beautiful, than name FFS should be either excluded or applied to every other
woman having any aesthetic facial surgery

[Alyssa M.]

This reminds me of a Dove soap ad I saw on YouTube a little while ago. Actually, to be honest, I went and searched for it as a salve for the dysphoria wave that hit me on seeing the Amanda's first post. (Not a complaint Amanda, that's just life.)

"The Distortion of Beauty"

🔗

~Alyssa

[Nero]

This reminds me of a Dove soap ad I saw on YouTube a little while ago. Actually, to be honest, I went and searched for it as a salve for the dysphoria wave that hit me on seeing the Amanda's first post. (Not a complaint Amanda, that's just life.)

"The Distortion of Beauty"

🔗

~Alyssa

Yeah, I often think women in times past had better self esteem looks wise cause they weren't bombarded with fake, perfect images everywhere. Nowadays the standard of beauty is a joke what with all these fake ads and such.

[Just Mandy]

Basicly i could go on and on about my view of FFS... I was going to start
a topic this time around.
Even the name of FFS is smth i don't like. For very few extermely masculine
TS woman, if they do complete facial reconstruction, have every trait of
their face modified... than yes, it is FFS.
But vast majority of women don't actually need what is called FFS. Let's say
Lady Camilla Parker-Bowles, who in my opinion facially looks  like an average
TS woman, decides to undergo some MAXILOFACIAL AESTHETIC
SURGERY... how would we call it? well just that:facial aesthetic surgery...
numerous woman have facial surgery... rhinoplasty, brow lift, chin countering
and in most aces that is just it... no special label
Particulary if TS woman is already "passable" and goes for "FFS" to make herself
more beautiful, than name FFS should be either excluded or applied to every other
woman having any aesthetic facial surgery

Mari, I think you're totally right... I tend to call ANY plastic surgery for me FFS... becuase in my
case ANY surgery would make me more passable. I think I'm somewhat passable without it and I
guess for me surgery would be to improve how I feel about my face and yes I guess to be prettier. But
common things like rhinoplasty are obviously not in the same category as full FFS, which a lot
of surgeons want to give you even if you don't need it.

And I totally admit Alyssa and Nero that I've been totally brain washed by the fake, airbrushed, skinny, made up
models that dominate the media... but I'm in such good company with a large portion of the female
population falling for the same thing. It seems to me every women these days has to compete with the "porn star" look
to be considered attractive. Of course that's just not right but it's the world we live in. Maybe someday things will change
and the masculine TS look will come into vogue lol.

Amanda

[Mari]

Mari, I think you're totally right... I tend to call ANY plastic surgery for me FFS... becuase in my
case ANY surgery would make me more passable. I think I'm somewhat passable without it and I
guess for me surgery would be to improve how I feel about my face and yes I guess to be prettier. But
common things like rhinoplasty are obviously not in the same category as full FFS, which a lot
of surgeons want to give you even if you don't need it.

And I totally admit Alyssa and Nero that I've been totally brain washed by the fake, airbrushed, skinny, made up
models that dominate the media... but I'm in such good company with a large portion of the female
population falling for the same thing. It seems to me every women these days has to compete with the "porn star" look
to be considered attractive. Of course that's just not right but it's the world we live in. Maybe someday things will change
and the masculine TS look will come into vogue lol.

Amanda

I completely understand everything you said, and support everyone to do
everything for thamselves, that they feel is appropriate. I was just trying
to point out that in transwomen, just like in biological woman, there are
great variations in terms of both feminity and beauty

       

From the pictures of you Amanda, that i have seen, i believe that you
definetly don't fall under the category of "needing" FFS. So....
-best wishes-

[Just Mandy]

Yes you are very right... there is so much variation... I think it's amazing that
there are so many of us on the planet and not one of us looks exactly
like the other (twins excluded).

From the pictures of you Amanda, that i have seen, i believe that you
definetly don't fall under the category of "needing" FFS. So....
-best wishes-

That is very kind, thank you for the self esteem boost Mari.

Amanda

[Keira]

The ideal of female beauty is ironically, not the average women.

Most models and even actresses have distinctly male features,
just as most male models and actors have more "female" faces
than the average male.

Beauty is fully androgynous.

Look at brad pitt, or Johnny depp,
are they the epithome of maleness? Pitt has a small build,
small jawline, a small mouth,
chin and nose, not much brow bossing and solid
hairline. There is a reason why he's always has
a scruffy beard in all his movies. Same thing
with Johnny Depp.


Male models these days have a 27-28 inch waist are barely taller
than female models and small to medium builds, and the devellopping
muscles of a 16 year old, very lean
and thin. Most of them would pass as female with not much
makeup...

Those like O who promote always a full FFS may get you to look female, but
you'll part of your facial identity in the process and may not look as good
as you would with a more conservative piecewise approach (one or two
operations at a time starting by the most egregious).  The jaw width
is the one that is the most often over corrected in my opinion. The
standard of beauty is a substantial jaw width, which we have already
and most women don't and which they had. It is jaw/chin height that
is the gender marker, not its width.

[louise000]

Beauty comes from within. Likewise femininity.

That's my six pence worth.

Louise

[Just Mandy]

I've been studying female faces for the past couple of months ... I feel like I need
to understand what beauty is. I know it when I see it... I just can't fully describe it.

Here are 25 faces that I think are very attractive. I picked them because many have a nose that is big
or different, which I think is my biggest problem. I also think most of them have the wider square jaw and smaller
chin height that Keira pointed out.

And I think a lot of them look very masculine... does anyone else see that?

If you want to comment on an individual photo use this legend:

  1 2 3 4 5
A
B
C
D
E

And... there is at least one transsexual in the group... can anyone spot her?

Amanda

[louise000]

And... there is at least one transsexual in the group... can anyone spot her?

Nope. I can't tell which one's transsexual. It doesn't matter as long as she's happy with herself as she is now.

[gina]

And I think a lot of them look very masculine... does anyone else see that?
And... there is at least one transsexual in the group... can anyone spot her?

Amanda

Yes I have to agree with you Amanda with alot having a slightly masculine or androgynous face. As spotting the TS it is quite rough...I'm going to take a shot here and say its (1C). If I'm right what do I win....

gina