Since realizing that I don't have to live my life in the prison of my false female identity i have become a little too confident in situations where i could seriously get my assed kicked, or worse. When people judge me based on my appearance I come very close to shoving it back in their face. Before learning about FTM's i was always ashamed, but now I have a weird feeling of empowerment. Don't get me wrong, it's important to be proud of who you are and everything, but i don't seem to get scared in situations where my safety could be at stake. Only after the fact when i think things over do i realize how my assertiveness could have branded me. Has anyone else gone through this? I'm not on T or anything, but am often read physically as a 14 or 15 year old boy (I just turned 21). I'm 5' 4'', 120lbs and although i go to the gym almost everyday, I know i could not really defend myself against an average sized guy with an attitude. I can't understand why I get these sudden urges to "fight back" so to speak.
I got my ass kicked a lot as a kid.
So my mom made me study marital arts.
Then I went on the road with rock bands.
Then I learned I liked to fight.
So. I've kicked ass as girl.
And liked it.
I don't know either, Freedom. BTW, welcome to Susan's. Please take some time to read The Site Rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) and on The Main Page (https://www.susans.org/index.html) you can discover Links, Chat and Wiki for your use as well. You might also want to go to the "Announcements" section and read the two posts "Post Ranks" and "Reputation Rules" to help you with some knowledge about when you can apply your own avatars, PM, and what those lil stars mean beneath all of our names and how to get them for yourself as well!! :)
But, I have also seen MTFs who seem to have every confidence in their personal strength even after a while on HRT and they have probably lost a lot of muscle mass and may find themselves not as strong as they think should push actually come to shove.
Personally, I think level of self-confidence grows when people go about being themselves and I think that tis often translates into maybe an over-abundance of confidence in some areas.
Please don't mistake assertive and aggressive though. No one should get their plow cleaned in that fashion. The guys will probably be in to give you their views which I would imagine you'll find much more insightful than mine.
All the best, Freedom,
Nichole
Read the Frailty Myth, seriously. I think it will help give reason to your self confidence :3
I consider myself pretty damn tough. I always have, even when I was the token crybaby of my class as a child (no one knew what I went through at home, so I figured crying at school was ok sometimes). I certainly don't go out looking for confrontation, but if someone has a problem with the way I dress, act, or behave, I'll defend myself. Of course I'll try to use words and talk my way out of any bad situation (as a writer, I can be pretty damn eloquent when I try), but if someone attacks me, I've found that I'm a rather scrappy fighter. Being tough doesn't mean one has to fight fair. -_- (My secret weapons are my steel-toed boots and teeth. >_>)
I know since I started on T, I've had the strange urge to punch a guy who pisses me off occasionally. Luckily the more sane part of my mind overrules it, but for me it's odd to have the impulse in the first place. And it's usually some guy who's a lot bigger than me. (Mainly cause most guys are a lot bigger than me.)
So some part of my brain clearly thinks I'm tougher than I am.
Dennis
I am not that tough, in fact I am a huge wuss and a crybaby. But if I had to defend myself I think that I could do it.....maybe.
Nope.
I weigh about 83lbs. I'm 5'3". My bones are very small. I for some time was too weak to walk up stairs without assistance. I'm borderline cripple, and soon may be undergoing some body conditioning to regain normal strength. I keep dreaming of the day after I transition when I somehow pick a bone with some guy and I end up with broken arms or a broken face.
But am I aggressive? Absolutely. And will I fight? Hell yeah. But will I win? Never. Never, never, never. Usually it takes a 13 year old one arm to pin me. So I'm mostly a yeller. But that makes people call me a "bitch," say that only a "woman" would take that approach, and that a "real man" would fight. So I ask them about old men and cripples. And they ask me if I'm an old man or a cripple. I'm not, but I might as well be a cripple. I can't do anything. I've been eating normally and nothing is happening to my body. My thyroid is healthy. My genetics were supposed to make me thin, not le petite. My ass still fits into a size 0. That's how damn small I am. I'm like a Ken doll; I'm made of plastic and I have no dick. Drop me and I'll crack.
I am not going to proclaim "toughness" or "manliness." It's simple. I can take a lot of physical pain, and I will fight with my all. But next to other men? My full strength is about as much as one of his arms. So I never end up doing anything worthwhile. I've stopped trying. I'm one of the dainty guys who's lost his confidence. I have no mojo.
Being a man shouldn't be about fighting and being tough. But it is. So I worry that I'll never be a normal guy. I'll always be some dainty little kid who might as well be made of tissue paper. T isn't going to make me stronger or taller or bigger. It might help me bulk up a little bit, but not enough. My arm is still going to be small enough to snap like a twig. My hands will still be too small to get a firm grip on a rope and I'll never be able to swing a hammer like a "real man." I lack just about everything that falls under manliness; strength, valor, a masculine body composition, height, voice, and well, the biggest issue, the lacking of a penis, which by most people's standards really "defines" a man. Most people I've talked to say that I'd be a woman no matter what... if I just "sewed" a dick on I'd just be a woman wearing a dick.
And sometimes I think they're right.
I have the "ideal" girl's body, according to the media. I don't have big boobs, but I am that miniature size that a lot of guys want to ->-bleeped-<-. But I don't want that attention. I'm tired of guys checking out my ass like I'm a sweet piece of meat. I don't think they'll ever see me as another guy.
My confidence has gone completely down the toilet. So many transguys are succeeding much more than me. With strength, size... A lot of transguys I've known are at least 5'5", a height I'm sure I'll never be... they take T and they suddenly pass 100%. I feel like I'll never really pass as a guy my age... I'll always look 5 years younger, which is not flattering on a man.
I'm hoping I'll come out of this depressing slump. Just a few days ago I was burning with confidence. But now I just feel like a "pathetic little woman" trying to be something "she's" not. And that's how a lot of people (straight & cisgendered) tend to address me.
Elwood, I've said before, you should count yourself lucky you've got a bit of height on you. How would you feel if you were four eleven, like me? You can't go around saying you'll never be a real man or whatever you said (I'm not stopping to quote you here) simply because you're small. I've learned to deal with being little. Until you accept yourself the way you are, you'll never be happy. Haven't you realized yet that physical attributes, no matter how much you dislike them, will never stop you from being a dude? Even a "normal" guy. No one but you thinks one has to be large to be a man. (And don't bother getting all confrontational with me--I'm not trying to start an argument.)
There are all kinds of toughness in the world. Physical toughness is just one. And I think all you guys are showing a tremendous amount of toughness just by dealing with the issues you face being stuck in the wrong body. It takes a certain amount of mental toughness and courage to walk this path, regardless of how physically overbearing you may or may not be.
I'll leave you with one of my favourite quotes. It's from the movie Rocky Balboa, and this says it better than I ever could:
"Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done. Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hit, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you are because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that ain't you. You're better than that!"
:)
I'd say I'm tough, but sometimes I lack the weight. That doesn't stop me though...
Its not that I think I'm tougher than I really am, its just that I want to prove I can do things and be tough. I feel like I'm always having to prove something to others because a lot of the time they say, "you can't do that, you're too such and such."
I think I'm pretty much a coward. Size has nothing to do with it to me, but I've always hated conflict so I've always run away from it.
Quote from: Yochanan on July 15, 2008, 04:56:18 PM
Elwood, I've said before, you should count yourself lucky you've got a bit of height on you. How would you feel if you were four eleven, like me? You can't go around saying you'll never be a real man or whatever you said (I'm not stopping to quote you here) simply because you're small. I've learned to deal with being little. Until you accept yourself the way you are, you'll never be happy. Haven't you realized yet that physical attributes, no matter how much you dislike them, will never stop you from being a dude? Even a "normal" guy. No one but you thinks one has to be large to be a man. (And don't bother getting all confrontational with me--I'm not trying to start an argument.)
I guess you have a point, but are you done growing? I've seen tons of doctors (which is like, 3, lol) that tell me I'm done growing because I started my period at 13.
I don't know. I find it hard to be a "normal" guy without a penis. If a girl (or guy) wants to get close to me, I'd have to ruin the moment and tell them that we can't just slide into sexual merriment. I'd have to "set up" first. Because I have to put my penis
on every day.
Not to be overly confrontational, but I don't recall saying that being tall was REQUIRED for manhood. I just want to be typical. As average (and boring, actually) as possible. But if I'm short, I'm interesting. In a way that I don't consider good.
wow, lots of feedback! Thanks guys and gals. And thank you Kestin for telling me about Frailty Myth; I'm gonna look for it the next time i go to the library.
Quote from: Elwood on July 15, 2008, 08:12:35 PM
I guess you have a point, but are you done growing? I've seen tons of doctors (which is like, 3, lol) that tell me I'm done growing because I started my period at 13.
I got my period at age 11, I'm 19 and still growing, although slowly. Not everyone is the same though, its kind of hard to gauge these things sometimes.
Quote from: Monty on July 15, 2008, 08:30:49 PM
Quote from: Elwood on July 15, 2008, 08:12:35 PM
I guess you have a point, but are you done growing? I've seen tons of doctors (which is like, 3, lol) that tell me I'm done growing because I started my period at 13.
I got my period at age 11, I'm 19 and still growing, although slowly. Not everyone is the same though, its kind of hard to gauge these things sometimes.
I'm so glad you mentioned that. Because my doctors said that females stop growing a year after their period. But I'm sure I'm still growing, and my mom said she stopped growing around 22. I might have a couple inches to go if I'm lucky.
Both my mom and dad continued growing for a long time... So I have potential. My dad is 5'11", my mom is 5'4", I think. So I have a chance to catch up to one of them. I say even 5'4" is better than 5'2" and 3/4 (yeah, I'm like a six year old, I count every fraction of an inch).
Nothing wrong with counting that fraction of an inch. It is what we short people tend to do. Also, I bear good news. I am 18 and had my period at 11 and am still growing. I grew from 153.6 cm to 156.5 cm recently. There is hope yet.
Fantastic. I've really been eating a diet that will hopefully contribute to bone growth. Even though my doctors said there was no way, I don't believe them. There is still growth hormone in my body.
Mind sending me a PM with the details on that diet? I'm curious.
Haha. I'll just post it. It's nothing big, really.
I'm simply consuming extra protein and calcium and various other substances that contribute to growth and wellness. :P Simple physiology.
doctors smoctors. At 15 I was told by mine that i was officially done growing. When i got to the car I started crying haha. At age 18 I was a measely 5' 2'' and at 19 I was 5' 3''. I recently moved across the country and therefore had my medical records shipped to me. According to them i am now (just turned 21) 5' 4''. I heard that the vertebrates in our backs can get squished flatter over time, therefore decreasing height. So, I think to some extent doing certain stretches regularly can maintain or maybe even slightly increase height.
That and my personal favorite: lying in bed all day ;D.
P.S. Measure yourself right after you wake up rather than before bed. You will find yourself around a cm taller in the morning.
as a kid i got into fights and wasnt bad because i didnt give up and i was tough. only with guys though. girls fight scary. O_O as i got older, the guys around me did too and also got bigger and stronger. i started losing fights pretty bad, so i started using my words. (i consider myself pretty damn witty) it was easy to do that because the guys that had problems with me were typical arrogant stupid creeps. a punch is blunt, but i stung with my words. so overall i consider myelf pretty tough.
Holy ->-bleeped-<-! I forgot about that! Disk compression!
Quote from: freedomfromyself on July 15, 2008, 11:07:39 PM
doctors smoctors. At 15 I was told by mine that i was officially done growing. When i got to the car I started crying haha. At age 18 I was a measely 5' 2'' and at 19 I was 5' 3''. I recently moved across the country and therefore had my medical records shipped to me. According to them i am now (just turned 21) 5' 4''. I heard that the vertebrates in our backs can get squished flatter over time, therefore decreasing height. So, I think to some extent doing certain stretches regularly can maintain or maybe even slightly increase height.
I don't know about that but people do get shorter as they age. My poor mom only made it to 5'1" to begin with. Now she's not even 5'0! As for that stretching thing, you could stop by your local BDSM dungeon and have someone put you on the rack! >:D
T tends to diminish risk assessment skills while increasing activity level and aggressiveness
leading to boys getting into a whole lot of troubles until they start maturing a bit.
Guys gets into probably 10 times the number of fights as girls do,
I'm pretty passive
generally but still got my ass kicked at least 5-6 times until I grew to 6 foot tall
and very athletic and people just stayed clear of me ;D. That was fine with me,
I was the worse fighter ever even though I could squat lift 5 guys.
T tends to diminish risk assessment skills while increasing activity level and aggressiveness
leading to boys getting into a whole lot of troubles until they start maturing a bit
The most frequently heard comment before some male teenagers tragic accident is "Hey, look what I can do."
Quote from: Elwood on July 15, 2008, 08:12:35 PM
Quote from: Yochanan on July 15, 2008, 04:56:18 PM
Elwood, I've said before, you should count yourself lucky you've got a bit of height on you. How would you feel if you were four eleven, like me? You can't go around saying you'll never be a real man or whatever you said (I'm not stopping to quote you here) simply because you're small. I've learned to deal with being little. Until you accept yourself the way you are, you'll never be happy. Haven't you realized yet that physical attributes, no matter how much you dislike them, will never stop you from being a dude? Even a "normal" guy. No one but you thinks one has to be large to be a man. (And don't bother getting all confrontational with me--I'm not trying to start an argument.)
I guess you have a point, but are you done growing? I've seen tons of doctors (which is like, 3, lol) that tell me I'm done growing because I started my period at 13.
I don't know. I find it hard to be a "normal" guy without a penis. If a girl (or guy) wants to get close to me, I'd have to ruin the moment and tell them that we can't just slide into sexual merriment. I'd have to "set up" first. Because I have to put my penis on every day.
Not to be overly confrontational, but I don't recall saying that being tall was REQUIRED for manhood. I just want to be typical. As average (and boring, actually) as possible. But if I'm short, I'm interesting. In a way that I don't consider good.
I'm the same age as you (I think a couple months older), and I've been waiting for my growth spurt since I was very young. I have always been very small and never really had any hope of growing much at all. I doubt I'll get more than another inch or two, if that. I started my monthlies at 12, but I never really heard that one stops growing after that. Rather depressing.
I know you did not say being tall is required. I understand about wanting to be normal--that's basically my goal as well. I don't think being short really makes one more "interesting" than others, it's simply a physical trait. No one I've ever known would look at a guy and think, "Hey, he's short... he must not be a real man!"
As for being "normal" without a penis, of course you're not going to be normal, Elwood. You're a frigging transsexual. No transperson I've ever known is "normal" (including myself). That doesn't mean you can't live your life as the dude you are, and it certainly doesn't mean you'll never find a guy (you're gay, right?) who will accept you and your sexual boundaries.
Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 10:32:20 AMI'm the same age as you (I think a couple months older), and I've been waiting for my growth spurt since I was very young. I have always been very small and never really had any hope of growing much at all. I doubt I'll get more than another inch or two, if that. I started my monthlies at 12, but I never really heard that one stops growing after that. Rather depressing.
I know you did not say being tall is required. I understand about wanting to be normal--that's basically my goal as well. I don't think being short really makes one more "interesting" than others, it's simply a physical trait. No one I've ever known would look at a guy and think, "Hey, he's short... he must not be a real man!"
As for being "normal" without a penis, of course you're not going to be normal, Elwood. You're a frigging transsexual. No transperson I've ever known is "normal" (including myself). That doesn't mean you can't live your life as the dude you are, and it certainly doesn't mean you'll never find a guy (you're gay, right?) who will accept you and your sexual boundaries.
I was born in March. So yeah, you might be a bit older.
The weird thing about growth spurts is that they are based on genetic potential. My cousin Josh grew six inches one year when he was in his late teens, I believe, if not his early 20's. It certainly defied what the doctors said would happen.
Well, my one question is, how small is very small? Being short is one thing, but what of your bone structure? My bones are pretty tiny... now I've heard from 3 people now that T will make my bones slightly more dense.
I used the word "interesting" in the context that it would draw attention. "Wow, he's short. Danny, you always been that short?" And such. It would be the talk of my physique, rather than something else like, "Wow, you have the biggest ugliest feet on the planet, Mr. Dapper."
I have no problem understanding that I am a transsexual and that I can't be perfect. All I want is minimal function and appearance. Something that at first glance isn't an, "OMG WHAT THE HELL IS THAT."
My sexuality is up in the air. I'm confused. See, I love men. But my sexual boundaries make it difficult. I can't penetrate him and a lot of guys won't want that vagina to go to waste. I'll be "the man with a pussy," and yes, a lot of gay guys might think that's pretty hot. Except I won't be letting anyone mess with it. I feel like I'll never find someone accepting of my physical construct. However, I could date within the LGBT community, and then people might accept me. But I always wanted a "normal" person, because "normal" people tend to have less baggage. I can't be supportive, I'm not the partner that a LGBT person needs.
Quote from: Elwood on July 16, 2008, 10:49:25 AM
I was born in March. So yeah, you might be a bit older.
The weird thing about growth spurts is that they are based on genetic potential. My cousin Josh grew six inches one year when he was in his late teens, I believe, if not his early 20's. It certainly defied what the doctors said would happen.
Well, my one question is, how small is very small? Being short is one thing, but what of your bone structure? My bones are pretty tiny... now I've heard from 3 people now that T will make my bones slightly more dense.
I used the word "interesting" in the context that it would draw attention. "Wow, he's short. Danny, you always been that short?" And such. It would be the talk of my physique, rather than something else like, "Wow, you have the biggest ugliest feet on the planet, Mr. Dapper."
I have no problem understanding that I am a transsexual and that I can't be perfect. All I want is minimal function and appearance. Something that at first glance isn't an, "OMG WHAT THE HELL IS THAT."
My sexuality is up in the air. I'm confused. See, I love men. But my sexual boundaries make it difficult. I can't penetrate him and a lot of guys won't want that vagina to go to waste. I'll be "the man with a pussy," and yes, a lot of gay guys might think that's pretty hot. Except I won't be letting anyone mess with it. I feel like I'll never find someone accepting of my physical construct. However, I could date within the LGBT community, and then people might accept me. But I always wanted a "normal" person, because "normal" people tend to have less baggage. I can't be supportive, I'm not the partner that a LGBT person needs.
My birthday's March 17. I didn't realize we were so close in age.
I'm 4'11" and I weigh anywhere from 111-118 LBs on any given day (minus 6 LBs for extra chest weight, which I don't count anymore-it's not really part of ME). I probably do have bigger bone structure than you, but I'm nowhere near average for a dude.
I really don't know what to say about the minmal function and appearance thing. You basically want what all the rest of us want. Unfortunately, it's rather difficult for us, as you well know. All we can do is take what we can get or wait until a better option becomes available. I'm resigned to it. It saddens me that you have so much trouble accepting the limitations society puts on us--yeah, it sucks, but there's nothing you can do but be an activist, really--or go into medicine and pave the way for the rest of us.
I don't really understand why you think gay men will think a dude with a vagina is "hot". Gay men that I've known aren't interested. As for dating within the LGBT community, why restrict yourself? Sure, that kind of person might be more understanding, but everyone, whether LGBT or not, has the capability to understand and be compassionate. If you fall in love with someone and he with you, he will respect you and your physical limitations. If he doesn't, he doesn't love you.
I think you generalize where you shouldn't about LGBT people. Just because one is part of the community doesn't mean he has more baggage than a "normal" person. Everyone I know--EVERYONE--has/had major emotional/psychological problems and issues in their past that affect (effect?) them to this day (which is what I assume you mean by "baggage"). LGBT don't have more baggage, it's just more obvious. And anyway, some might be perfectly happy and content, and may not need that extra support that you cannot give.
I perceived myself to be tougher than I really am this past weekend. A couple buddies and myself had a few beers, brought out the boxing gloves and went at it. I'm 5'5 150, my buddy is 5'9 220, let's just say I only got one hit in before I was thrown around like a dummie. All in good fun, but I got my ass straight KICKED. I'm gonna blame it on the beer.
Or skills. Fighting like any physical deal is only part brute, but mostly skill.
I feel this way sometimes too. But then I realize I'm a 5'4" 150 lb weakling, haha.
Quote from: GQjoey on July 16, 2008, 02:12:25 PM
I perceived myself to be tougher than I really am this past weekend. A couple buddies and myself had a few beers, brought out the boxing gloves and went at it. I'm 5'5 150, my buddy is 5'9 220, let's just say I only got one hit in before I was thrown around like a dummie. All in good fun, but I got my ass straight KICKED. I'm gonna blame it on the beer.
Wow, I think you look taller than 5'5" in your picture.
You lose height with age a bit, but its mostly because of posture that you lose most
height as you age. Bad muscle tone really messes your posture and makes you look 3-4 inch shorter,
coupled with 1-2 inch from vertebra compression, means you can look 6 inch shorter (but in fact,
1-2 inch if you muscled up again and watched the posture).
On average, bone plates are fused at 16 in girls. But, if you had a late puberty, or
a low level of estrogen (or low sensitivity to it), it can fuse later.
But, I'd be surprised if any women, besides one with a pathological problem,
grows more than an inch after 18.
Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMQuote from: Elwood on July 16, 2008, 10:49:25 AMI was born in March. So yeah, you might be a bit older.
The weird thing about growth spurts is that they are based on genetic potential. My cousin Josh grew six inches one year when he was in his late teens, I believe, if not his early 20's. It certainly defied what the doctors said would happen.
Well, my one question is, how small is very small? Being short is one thing, but what of your bone structure? My bones are pretty tiny... now I've heard from 3 people now that T will make my bones slightly more dense.
I used the word "interesting" in the context that it would draw attention. "Wow, he's short. Danny, you always been that short?" And such. It would be the talk of my physique, rather than something else like, "Wow, you have the biggest ugliest feet on the planet, Mr. Dapper."
I have no problem understanding that I am a transsexual and that I can't be perfect. All I want is minimal function and appearance. Something that at first glance isn't an, "OMG WHAT THE HELL IS THAT."
My sexuality is up in the air. I'm confused. See, I love men. But my sexual boundaries make it difficult. I can't penetrate him and a lot of guys won't want that vagina to go to waste. I'll be "the man with a pussy," and yes, a lot of gay guys might think that's pretty hot. Except I won't be letting anyone mess with it. I feel like I'll never find someone accepting of my physical construct. However, I could date within the LGBT community, and then people might accept me. But I always wanted a "normal" person, because "normal" people tend to have less baggage. I can't be supportive, I'm not the partner that a LGBT person needs.
My birthday's March 17. I didn't realize we were so close in age.
I was born March 10th. Same as Chuck Norris and Osama Bin Laden's birthdays.
Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI'm 4'11" and I weigh anywhere from 111-118 LBs on any given day (minus 6 LBs for extra chest weight, which I don't count anymore-it's not really part of ME). I probably do have bigger bone structure than you, but I'm nowhere near average for a dude.
My dimensions are 5'2" 3/4 and about 83 lbs on average (my weight changes a lot between 79 and 85). My bone structure is "abnormally small" according to my doctors, but not so much that it causes me health problems. My immune system, actually, is better functioning than most people (that or I take better care of myself I'm not sure which).
Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI really don't know what to say about the minmal function and appearance thing. You basically want what all the rest of us want. Unfortunately, it's rather difficult for us, as you well know. All we can do is take what we can get or wait until a better option becomes available. I'm resigned to it. It saddens me that you have so much trouble accepting the limitations society puts on us--yeah, it sucks, but there's nothing you can do but be an activist, really--or go into medicine and pave the way for the rest of us.
I'm not really going to accept, "Oh, I have to get a phallo." No I don't. I'll use tools and packing until plastic surgery methods are improved. I don't mind having a penis for the first time at 50. I'm not going to rush it for lack of quality. But other than that, transition will involve HRT and top surgery.
As for going into medicine, it's not possible for me. I
may potentially be smart enough to do it, but I don't have the ambition or the strength to handle that much school or study. I'd be the wrong person to take that journey.
Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI don't really understand why you think gay men will think a dude with a vagina is "hot". Gay men that I've known aren't interested. As for dating within the LGBT community, why restrict yourself? Sure, that kind of person might be more understanding, but everyone, whether LGBT or not, has the capability to understand and be compassionate. If you fall in love with someone and he with you, he will respect you and your physical limitations. If he doesn't, he doesn't love you.
A vagina is far more pleasurable than an anus because a vagina is a whole line of sphincters where the anus is just one.
I don't think I am limiting myself. Currently, I'm not dating anyone, because I am not mentally healthy enough to handle a relationship. But I never said I was going to reject a cisgendered person if they asked me. I'm just not going to be a cis-->-bleeped-<-, because no, most of them don't seem to understand.
Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI think you generalize where you shouldn't about LGBT people. Just because one is part of the community doesn't mean he has more baggage than a "normal" person. Everyone I know--EVERYONE--has/had major emotional/psychological problems and issues in their past that affect (effect?) them to this day (which is what I assume you mean by "baggage"). LGBT don't have more baggage, it's just more obvious. And anyway, some might be perfectly happy and content, and may not need that extra support that you cannot give.
You're denying obvious fact. A gay or trans person is outcasted from the normal part of society. That's quite a load to carry. They only know what it's like to be encroached in the LGBT community, because they have to. Coming out is an art, almost, because if you stand out on the streets of New York and come out to everyone, you WILL get shot by somebody.
Posted on: July 17, 2008, 08:25:34 AM
Quote from: Keira on December 15, 1999, 02:03:50 PM
You lose height with age a bit, but its mostly because of posture that you lose most
height as you age. Bad muscle tone really messes your posture and makes you look 3-4 inch shorter,
coupled with 1-2 inch from vertebra compression, means you can look 6 inch shorter (but in fact,
1-2 inch if you muscled up again and watched the posture).
On average, bone plates are fused at 16 in girls. But, if you had a late puberty, or
a low level of estrogen (or low sensitivity to it), it can fuse later.
But, I'd be surprised if any women, besides one with a pathological problem,
grows more than an inch after 18.
Then be surprised. Most of the women in my family continued growing into their early 20's. My body has not been the best as absorbing estrogen, but it's held onto enough that my periods work normally.
Elwood:
I'm probably not the best person to talk to about LGBT being "outcasts". I wouldn't hesitate to stand in the street and yell, "I'm a flaming homosexual transman," at the top of my lungs. Then again, I don't live in New York (unfortunately)--I live in LA, the heart of North Hollywood in The Valley, and if I screamed that in the street, people would probably look at me and say, "So what?" You may be right about New York. But you live in SoCal as well, do you not? Most people I've known around here don't care about sexuality or how one chooses to present himself. I don't know--maybe I've just been too sheltered.
Hah, go figure... I was born March 8th, but I think I'm at least a year older than you both. Small world.
Quote from: Yochanan on July 17, 2008, 10:55:06 AM
Elwood:
I'm probably not the best person to talk to about LGBT being "outcasts". I wouldn't hesitate to stand in the street and yell, "I'm a flaming homosexual transman," at the top of my lungs. Then again, I don't live in New York (unfortunately)--I live in LA, the heart of North Hollywood in The Valley, and if I screamed that in the street, people would probably look at me and say, "So what?" You may be right about New York. But you live in SoCal as well, do you not? Most people I've known around here don't care about sexuality or how one chooses to present himself. I don't know--maybe I've just been too sheltered.
I could say that here in Cotati (which is by Santa Rosa, which is like, ->-bleeped-<- Mecca next to San Fransisco, which is an hour from here). But I can't really say that without trouble in my hometown that's near San Diego. People are much more uptight down there.
LA is like, South Mid Cal. It isn't quite as south as where I lived.
Yes, I don't think it is over confidence though. T, and it gets worse with higher doses does it. I focus entirely on what is threatening and don't second guess myself until after. I go with my instincts. I always had a FU attitude. It just feels like I am on autopilot in conflict. I am trained in armed and unarmed combat and am capable of defending myself. The SAS's and my motto is he who dares, wins. The winner of most fights is the one with no scruples and is more aggressive. I am a pacifist now with experience.
Elwood- I am 5'4" with my boots on:) and a 28" ideal waist. I am disabled. I have fought guys way bigger, older, stronger and better trained/ equipped then me and most times I win. I don't stop and don't care. I know a guy who is 3'3" and I wouldn't want to fight him. I might pick him up but he can bite, kick and punch me all once in the same area. He is faster and uses his brain. It also depends on your definition of winning. Is it getting away as safely as possible or is it being the last guy standing after you beat each other senseless?
You are hearing a lot of negative stuff about what makes or doesn't make a guy. The only thing that makes you a guy is saying I am a guy. Who cares what you look like or wear or say or do or anything. People are idiots a lot of the time. It sounds like the "true transsexual" stuff from what I started. Some of the older guys will remember it. I was told I wasn't a man by the head of the local kids gender program because I liked to cook. Thinking like this wears you down.
I date gay men, straight women and people who don't care about gender. Sexual situations shouldn't just happen; you need to talk with them before no matter who you are. STDs, prior sexual experience, recent testing, what you like and don't like, boundaries and for us the penis issue are all things that your partner should know before you have sex. You can find people who will respect you in bed but right now your options are limited by your age and the maturity of your age mates. I know a lot of gay guys who completely cool with me but freaked out by my genitals.
We are the same height give or take and no one ever has read me because of my height. Close friends have teased me abet briefly and I told them off.
An outcast in society? Maybe you feel like one but it isn't true in the rest of the world. Most people don't care or are just overly curious. I have been at this 10 years in a wide array of situations and except for people with power most people never guess and don't have an issue. It also has a lot to do with who you choose as your friends. As for getting shot... I have stood in small villages, mountain tops, all of Toronto, suburbs, trains, airports, government offices, misc places all over Canada, new york, florida, europe and Uganda and shouted variations of I am a trans and most people just think I am strange. Yeah the wrong person at the wrong moment in the wrong place could get me killed but anything could if someone is nuts enough to pull a gun and kill me. I am not changing me, what I believe or do just for that risk. Nor can they make me hate myself.
->-bleeped-<-boy
Then you're a bigger show off than me. You can make all the excuses you want, but height is not just the only issue. I weigh 80 lbs. This morning it was 80.4 on the scale. My bones are unusually thin, doctors have confirmed this. I have a known genetic anomaly that makes me smaller and weaker than most normal girls. Being weaker than a typical girl is bound to make me much weaker that a typical guy (it's a fact; guys tend to be naturally stronger than girls). T could help a little, and if I'm lucky, even slightly thicken my bones (but very slightly). But T will not ever make me even as big or strong as even a weak guy. My body does not retain fat or muscle. It does not retain mass.
You always talk to me like I'm incompetent and stupid. I am a good fighter. But physical ability has it's limitations. A person could easily break my arm with one hand. A person could easily knock me out of consciousness because my vitality is very low. A person could very easily pin me even though I know well and practice the skills of real wrestling. My hands are too small to get a good grip on most people, a grip is essential in good fighting. Fighting me is like fighting a 7 year old. I can bruise you, but that's about it.
By the way, you are "more manly" than me, I guess, because you'll "tell someone off" when they are rude to you. I am more of a gentle person, I prefer peace over war. I prefer the rational way of handling things. I don't say, "->-bleeped-<- YOO" every time someone says something I don't like. I don't get in someone's face when they disagree with me. I am aggressive, but I'm a passive aggressive. I don't try to make a "show" out of my masculinity. I do only what's necessary. I conserve my energy and my anger. I value my anger more and only spend my anger on things that really matter.
No one's made me hate myself. I met an amazing person who is now an androgyne who was once a transwoman. Ze went through a lot, even hormone treatments before ze realized their true identity. This person inspired me, though. Showed me that there is no shame in being queer. I still, however, don't think I'll ever have the relationships I want. I want to be a normal cisgendered guy. Gay, maybe. But cisgendered in the body would have been really nice so that my body wasn't a boundary between raw emotions.
Man, you really ARE guys,
who on earth cares if you can punch out an elephant
with one fist.
Most guys with a certain educaition and over
18 don't go around getting into fights. Its not
a goal!
I only really saw a lot of fighting amongst the young
and drunk guys...
Then good! I'd like to hope I transitioned at a safe age where guys won't be pounding my face in on a regular basis. But I would like to be able to defend myself at the least... defend those I love... save a life, maybe (strength isn't all about fighting, but also defending). I'd like to think that if someone is being crushed under a car door, that I could lift it. I'd like to think that if my friend is being one-upped by a skinhead, that I could at least block a few swings until we can get away to safety. I'd like to hope that I can at least have a bit of fun with my life, too.
I love wrestling. But I'll probably never be strong enough or meet the weight class. But it is so much fun. It isn't about swinging at each other. It really is an intimate activity and both players (if they're good sports) leave energized. I love that feeling.
Posted on: July 19, 2008, 02:40:36 PM
I don't see anything manly about beating the tar out of each other, but apparently it's part of the "male persona." I've got to get used to it because other guys are going to want to punch me sometimes... and they will. I can't just cry and roll around on the floor every time it happens.
I admit I liked the rush of fighting but I don't like fighting any more. It has to do with showing off that went away with testosterone. I see nothing manly about fighting. I know 4 people over 20 who actually enjoy fighting and all 4 of them are pretty screwed up guys. Most guys just move past that as they get older. You should take a self defense course aimed at people with disabilities. I know other people who didn't think they could defend them self if needed and these kind of things help. I am not however suggesting fighting but perhaps your skill needs to be learning to avoid being hit. Maybe you will always have trouble defending yourself and that doesn't make you less of a man. I am glad we live in the age we do as well. I am sorry my style of writing is offending you. It is not directed at you just how I write most of the time.
Because of my disabilities, I can't climb, drive, write by hand, hold things and walk well. I have a mobility service dog who makes my life better. The main reason I can hold the stance that I do is my dog. People rarely argue with 105lb dog though very friendly. It sucks however to be sick and perhaps with testosterone your life will be better.
Rolling on the floor and crying is a good response. I am assertive not aggressive. I say my piece but I am not looking for a fight. Your small but if you scream, roar in anger, kick, punch, bite, grab clothes, claw throat, eyes, genitals etc you can cause them enough pain to back off attacking you long enough to run like hell to anyone else. Yes you might be hurt but you are going to be hurt anyways or else why fight.
I am on T and I am my own person but I don't think I am any more a man then you or anyone else on this board. To each their own, I am just trying to encourage you to believe in yourself.
->-bleeped-<-boy
Self defense for disabled people? Now I've seen everything. I didn't know such a class existed. I'll look into it.
I am pretty much a monkey physically. I am fast, small, weak, and limber. I can dodge, run, skip, jump, climb... I just can't hit someone back and if you pin me I'll just squeal and kick. There really isn't anything I can do once someone's got a hold on me.
So apparently, I am not nearly as disabled as you are. I am one of the fastest climbers... well, maybe I should say I've never met anyone who could climb faster than me. I want to join some sort of climbing club so that I'll realize I'm really not so great.
Funny thing is to meet me you wouldn't automatically think I am disabled. I really miss climbing. Joining a club would be a great idea. I tried climbing a few months back and blacked out 3/4 of the way up:( lucky I was tied in). I loved the freedom of being able to climb anything in front of you. Check out your local community center or worker for self defense classes for you. You have a natural skill and I bet with strength training like climbing you would be a great wrestler. The wiry guys can be really strong. It never stops being scary though.
->-bleeped-<-boy
Hm, that gives me a bit of hope. Because maybe with some stamina I'd be able to sufficiently protect myself. And that's all that really matters when it comes to fighting.
What's all this rough-housing? *shakes head*
XD
That was one of my main fears before realising I wanted to transition, I was afraid I'd become more aggressive. I've always hated violence and I don't even like arguing. Plus I kinda look down on that kind of thing, it just doesn't interest me (boxing and other sports that are similar) that are all about strength. It always seemed pointless *shrug* But as I researched I saw that generally transguys don't really become more aggressive, just more assertive.
I still fear though that once I do pass full time, blokes will be more likely to pick a fight with me if I say the wrong thing or am in the wrong place. That being said, I'm pretty good at taking pain :) lol.
I joke with my male flatmates when they're watching or playing violent video games, "Hey maybe when I'm a guy I'll actually like this ->-bleeped-<- too?"
I only really saw a lot of fighting amongst the young and drunk guys...
True, and those of us who had security duties in places where there were lots of young drunk guys.
I haven't been in a fight since becoming an adult. There have been occaisions where there has been a lot of posturing but in the end one of us would back down. Fighting as an adult is serious business. If the cops get called someone will end up in jail, probably both of you. Besides the hassle and expense of defending a felony charge, it would be very career limiting. If I were convicted of a crime of violence I would be fired from my job and forfeit the possibility of licensure in just about anything besides driving a car.
Use your words, guys!
I think its one thing to be the instigator and another to be the one who gets caught in the crossfire.
I may not pick a fight, but there may arise an issue where someone is trying to start a scrap with me and I can't always run away. I may be forced to defend myself... and that sort of thing rarely happens with female against female. Women do have to watch their back with men and violence, but I think a man is more likely to start something or hit another male than they are to do that toward a female.
I do worry that I'll get stuck in a fight. While I'm not passive in that manner, I'm not about to go around picking fights or whatnot. Theres a time and a place, and its generally when you're defending yourself where I see it as a legitimate excuse.
I don't think a lot of it has to do with us all wanting to get into fights(even though its bloody fun with friends), I think a lot of us are thinking about self defence and when someone is trying to pick something or forcing us into a situation where a fight could occur. Words can't always get you out of a fight and not everyone is good with persuading others.
I may not be the typical young drunk guy, but there are others out there who are. And I don't think they give a piss whether I think like them or not.
Quote from: Monty on July 20, 2008, 10:56:32 AM
I think its one thing to be the instigator and another to be the one who gets caught in the crossfire.
I may not pick a fight, but there may arise an issue where someone is trying to start a scrap with me and I can't always run away. I may be forced to defend myself... and that sort of thing rarely happens with female against female. Women do have to watch their back with men and violence, but I think a man is more likely to start something or hit another male than they are to do that toward a female.
I do worry that I'll get stuck in a fight. While I'm not passive in that manner, I'm not about to go around picking fights or whatnot. Theres a time and a place, and its generally when you're defending yourself where I see it as a legitimate excuse.
I don't think a lot of it has to do with us all wanting to get into fights(even though its bloody fun with friends), I think a lot of us are thinking about self defence and when someone is trying to pick something or forcing us into a situation where a fight could occur. Words can't always get you out of a fight and not everyone is good with persuading others.
I may not be the typical young drunk guy, but there are others out there who are. And I don't think they give a piss whether I think like them or not.
What situation might that be? There is always an alternative to violence. It's better to swallow your pride than your teeth!
Not long ago I had an altercation with a man on the street. He had totally bought into my being female. He had laid hands on me in an attempt to restrain me (grabbed my arm). That is assault and battery under the law. I would have been totally justified in defending myself. He stepped back when I accused him of assault. There he was, arms dangling at his side and me in a left eutral bow. I could have cold-cocked him then and there and gotten away with it. I didn't. All I wanted was to get rid of the guy, not talk to the police. So I cried. The man wanted to feel powerful over a woman, so gave him that. It didn't cost me anything, he went away and so did I.
There is always an alternative to violence.
Not always. Sometimes people need to be handled, roughly at that. Its not the best way, but neither is backing down.
Quote from: tekla on July 20, 2008, 11:26:37 AM
Its not the best way, but neither is backing down.
Sometimes you do what you have to in order to survive. Sometimes there's no move left left but submitting and admitting defeat.
~Kate~
Quote from: kestin on July 20, 2008, 01:40:44 AMWhat's all this rough-housing? *shakes head*
XD
That was one of my main fears before realising I wanted to transition, I was afraid I'd become more aggressive. I've always hated violence and I don't even like arguing. Plus I kinda look down on that kind of thing, it just doesn't interest me (boxing and other sports that are similar) that are all about strength. It always seemed pointless *shrug* But as I researched I saw that generally transguys don't really become more aggressive, just more assertive.
I still fear though that once I do pass full time, blokes will be more likely to pick a fight with me if I say the wrong thing or am in the wrong place. That being said, I'm pretty good at taking pain :) lol.
I joke with my male flatmates when they're watching or playing violent video games, "Hey maybe when I'm a guy I'll actually like this ->-bleeped-<- too?"
I like playful violence. I like struggle in good sport. Pretty much the sort of wrestling/punching each other where you're laughing. My friends did this when they were playing Guitar Hero. It was pretty hilarious. Pretty stupid, but pretty hilarious. Aaron was winning so Matt kicked him. Then Aaron took a massive swing at Matt. Matt kept kicking Aaron's ankle. At the same time they were trying to play Guitar Hero. It was funny for some reason... I've been in a similar situation and even if you're bruised afterwards it's something to laugh about later.
I like sports that require strength. Sports like rugby and basketball are good examples. Swimming is really awesome too, and requires some mean strength if you want to be fast. Wrestling is my favorite sport of all, and I don't mean the wrestling we see on TV. But real wrestling.
I met a transguy who became far more relaxed and content after T. I think that is what a successful transition is supposed to look like.
I never really say things like "when I'm a guy." I already am one... I don't have all of the physical specifications, but I'm not going to say I'm a girl. I never really was one, even when I was really young. When I was really young, I was pretty androgynous.
Posted on: July 20, 2008, 10:30:23 AM
The best way to deal with a fight is not to fight. Guys get bored if they beat the ->-bleeped-<- out of you and you're not fighting back. They'll beat you 'til you bleed and leave you alone (if they're not skin heads, then they'll kill ya). A bloody nose isn't so bad in comparison to fighting and maybe pissing the guy off enough to kill you. I speak from experience. I get hurt a lot less when I run, dodge, block, or just take it.
Then again, this is a weak, small person talking. If someone gets mad at me, they can pick me up and throw me wherever they want.
Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 20, 2008, 11:22:04 AM
What situation might that be? There is always an alternative to violence. It's better to swallow your pride than your teeth!
Not long ago I had an altercation with a man on the street. He had totally bought into my being female. He had laid hands on me in an attempt to restrain me (grabbed my arm). That is assault and battery under the law. I would have been totally justified in defending myself. He stepped back when I accused him of assault. There he was, arms dangling at his side and me in a left eutral bow. I could have cold-cocked him then and there and gotten away with it. I didn't. All I wanted was to get rid of the guy, not talk to the police. So I cried. The man wanted to feel powerful over a woman, so gave him that. It didn't cost me anything, he went away and so did I.
I'm not talking about pride. Theres no shame about backing down from a fight, but the situations I'm talking about are the ones where I have no choice but to fight to survive or defend myself. There are some situations where I can talk myself out of a fight, but there are also some where someone might want to murder me or even corner me and wont listen to words. There are dangerous situations where someone might have a weapon and I need to disable them so I don't get killed and there may also be someone who isn't mentally well or under the influence and wont listen to me. These occasions may not arise all that often, but I'd rather know how to save my own life or to save myself from a lot of grief. I think these are all reasons to justify violence and should be the only reasons, outside of sports like martial arts and things.
There are women who take self defence classes for these reasons too. I'd rather be safe than sorry and to be able to defend myself and only use violence when absolutely necessary. Its like martial arts, you aren't trained to pick fights but to defend yourself.
But the thing about martial arts and self defence classes is that they teach you how to use your opponent's strength against them. You don't have to be built like a battleship to be able to defend yourself effectively. Granted, it may deter a few people who would otherwise fancy their chances, but if self defence is what you're focused on then you can learn to defend yourself no matter what size, shape or gender you are.
Every adversary has weaknesses, and if you know how to exploit them then your physical capability won't matter nearly so much. In my opinion, it doesn't need to be about increasing your strength or physical power in order to defend yourself, it's about how you employ what you already have. :) If you apply pressure to the right nerve clusters, you can disable someone no matter if you're 4'10" or 6'10". The key is learning where to press. ;)
I completely agree, Leiandra. The martial arts bit was only a reference to when violence should be used.
It doesn't matter how tall we are or how much we weigh, its how you go about defending yourself. Theres no cookie cutter way of doing any of that, anyone who is able bodied can disable someone without doing much harm to the opponent.
Physically, nah, I know I don't have a chance against most guys, which is fine by me though cos I've never seen the point in fighting. Mentally though I consider myself pretty tough, cos life has thrown a lot of obstacles my way but I've never let it get me down and always try to stay positive. To Elwood, mate, you gotta stop putting yourself down. You're a guy because you know you are, who cares about people who judge a man by his size or ability to fight?
I don't think I have to be built like a battleship to defend myself.
But my body is literally the size of a small child's. I need to at least weigh more so that a person can't blow me over through a straw.
Elwood, You don't have to "defend" yourself,
just don't put yourself in a bad spot.
Unless you go out looking for a fight, a fight
very very rarely finds you.
That's why I laugh at gun addicts and self-defense
fanatics. If someone took held them up at gunpoint,
the sane thing would be to give up their money
regardless of their training
The key thing is just don't put yourself
in a situation where ->-bleeped-<- happens
and that will save you 99% of all possible
confrontation.
Unless somebody's you're physically restrained,
which would most likely happen if somebody
you trust attacks you,
the best thing is to run towards somewhere
where there are people and make lots of noise
while you're doing it.
Are you certain? See, I happen to be an athiest.
I also happen to be queer. I also happen to like the House of Blues.
Do you know who happens to hang around the House of Blues?
Haters. But why do Haters happen to show up at the House of Blues,
An establishment that just happens to support Unity In Diversity?
Why, it is an almost ironic occasion that they-- why they--
would just happen to choose such an establishment?
That would be because their appearance just happens to be no coincidence.
People who are queer and out are always open to treachery.
To violence, to hate, to misunderstandings, to battles.
I have to be prepared not only to be hated by bigots,
But to also face the slings and arrows of men
With burning hearts and steaming fists.
Cisgendered men alike will often end up in struggles
Which seem for almost no reason at all.
It, apparently, is just part of being a man,
And that just happens to be who I am.
To run and scream and flail one's arms in the air
Is to take the weak approach and flee.
Many would think me a woman in a woman's body
Pretending to be a man who is pretending to be a woman.
That is not the path I would wish to take,
as I feel I am not pretending at all.
It would be reverse reverse reverse psychology
To pronounce myself as weak and effeminate.
I seek a body that matches my inner self,
And though my inner self be a runner,
My inner self also be one who stands his ground.
An establishment that just happens to support Unity In Diversity?
Oh come on, what HoB supports, like all corporate enterprises, is profits before people. Perhaps the original HoB might have held true to some of that, but that was long before you were there. Today, its a corporate franchise, owned by LiveNation, a spin-off of Clear Channel. They book what sells, not what inspires or promotes any philosophy. Its bottom line, not highest calling.
So they take the money from anyone who shows up. Just like any other bunch of corporate rock whores.
And, if you have to fight, its best to stand and do it rather than run and get caught which triggers all sorts of animal stuff. Its best not to fight. Most people do not (other than using lawyers).
And its not gay people, or trans people that suffer from treachery. All people are at risk of it. It touches all. And gay people and trans persons are equally capable of being the people producing the treachery also.
Silence.
That is what the marketing department supports. But the place has a theme. I'd think a skin head would want to spit on the flamboyantly painted walls of the place.
You really like to shoot me down, but you fail massively. Because I'll stand up until you beat me to death.
And I never said that ONLY gay people have trouble. But I have just another thing about me people are going to hate.
I just don't believe corporate slogans no matter how the walls are painted. That's art direction, not art. And running a club is business, in HoB case, very big business which is why Clear Channel bought them. That's like rule two at Warton, if you can't beat the competition, buy them out.
Except those "slogans" and "directions" are much older than the corporate reputation of the restaurant. So little do you know.
The place was bought, expanded, but didn't make any major changes. Plus, I've been visiting some of the older ones that were opened by their makers, not this new corporate face. Though I think San Diego and Anaheim locations aren't really... they weren't classic like the others I went to. I think they were either newer or just more corrupt.
We don't know what is posturing or dangerous. I worked with a client who would punch you out for touching him but wasn't dangerous. Once we got used to him we stopped. The new guy always got knocked out but then learned. The only time I got really injured there was nothing I could do. I stepped in to protect the van driver and the other client; it went from me between them to him pulling a can of oven spray out and getting me full in the face. I couldn't see right for weeks. It always the ones we don't think are dangerous that are.
Much more then 99% of the time I can talk calmly and be non-confrontational. It might be a while but buddy will calm down. I can play avoid the punch for a long time if need be. No matter how unstable or under the influence, most of the time non-violence will end the situation safely for everyone involved. It's like the cops in my area before crisis situations took a while to solve and it rarely ended in serious injury or death. Now that they have the non-lethal taser; situations on average take less time to resolve and are more likely to end in the death or injury. It takes a true negotiator to say I am have protected myself and others now lets talk this guy down.
My mentor once came across these guys hitting a girl in an alley. He is a pacifist and his response was to run between these people and say "I am not going to hit you but you will have to kill me before you hit her again." and the guys response was confusion and they left. My mentor wasn't sure what would have happened if they did attack him but he was prepared to stand up and that is often enough.
The times we need to defend ourself isn't that extreme, it is the guy at the bar who drank too much or a random attack. If they want your money it isn't worth the fight, period. If they are drunk it is easy to avoid their punches. If they start attacking you or some in your protection and you can't defend without hurting someone, then fight. Fight like this is your's or another's life because that is what it is. Thats what the guys here are talking about, right? That doesn't mean kicking a guy who gives up that means fighting until you have room to get away and getting away.
Of course Elwood, this isn't about you. If someone gets within reach and is trying to hurt you either go with the curl up and protect the soft spots approach or fight with everything you have and all the aggression you can muster. People are often scared off just by shouting. Draw attention to yourself and run like the wind.
When someone threatened to kill me and my service dog, my response was "thank you I am going to go and call the police now and I did. police took it from there. If there isn't another person in danger or a physical attack I am not going to fight. I am not even convinced that the fights I had before were justified. Sure I was being attacked but I could have stopped it without injuring them. I am not even convinced it is a good idea in defense of someone. We always hear "he did such and such first" and everyone feel justified in hurting someone.
In my experience, taking or avoiding a punch and standing there saying I am not fighting you has ended every fight I was in since I vowed non-violence. Sure I might have a black eye or a split lip but that is all WE have. Everyone has a reason to fight, but I don't know. I am not saying let your self be severely hurt or killed. Each of us have our line in the sand and I am unsure of my line. I have always defended someone being hurt. It has taken a while for me to be comfortable saying this. I won't fight back unless I am sure that the attack is more then anger and pain; and the person won't stop. I will only fight to the point I can get away. I would like to say I wouldn't fight period but I am not comfortable with that either. There are times when if you don't fight, you simply are a martyr. I am not sure if being a martry or fighting is the right choice, I guess it depends on the situation.
->-bleeped-<-boy
I don't tend to start fights (in person, I am one hell of an arguer online). I am funny, charismatic, gentle, and really the "family man" when I'm in a group of people. I like to flatter myself and say I have a bit of a Steve Martin flavor when I'm in a good mood. It's hard to get pissed off at me because I give out smiles-- I live to give out smiles. But sometimes someone will be offended, or just be upset because I am so happy. But will they beat me for it? Well, no one has yet. Maybe if I'm still a cheerful performer when I'm older I'll eventually get punched for making someone's girlfriend laugh.
My best method of escape is climbing. Big strong guys can't scale a building like I can. Worst case scenario, they pull out a gun. If that happens, I'm probably going to be dead.
If someone threatened to kill me and I told them, "I'm calling the police now," they'd rip the phone out of my hand (or my arm off) and beat me with it. You seem to sponge in stories that don't really make sense.
I think ->-bleeped-<-boy and Elwood are both right.
These occasions don't happen very often. And I bet they are even less likely to happen in smaller cities or towns. I'll probably be moving to a bigger city, and while my country isn't a violent one, I have seen people fight over stupid things on the streets and most civilians have to steer away from it in one of the largest cities. There are many situations where you can easily walk away or avoid it, like steering clear of the situation or staying away from a fight that has broken out. Getting caught in a murder is probably rare, or even someone approaching you with a knife. Remember, not all weapons are guns... many people still utilize weapons that don't require bullets such as baseball bats, crowbars, knives and various other items that can be used as weapons. There are many countries with strict gun laws where people will use something else thats deadly, like a knife. Remember the stabbing a few weeks back in Japan? The guy went insane, stabbed a bunch of innocent people on the street and then committed suicide.
But how often do these things occur? Not very often. Which is a good thing!
However, I still want to be prepared for anything. These situations may never happen to me in my life time, but theres no shame in me learning how to defend myself and how to disable someone without causing much harm. I don't want to be the person to say, "you never think it'll happen to you." and I acknowledge that it never may happen at all. Life is unpredictable, I just want to make sure I'm prepared for as much as I can be for its little surprises.
I was over fifty, with a doctorate, two years working as an intern in a major forensics lab before I ever saw anyone get killed in front of me. Then I saw three (two by guns, one by knife) in about two and a half years.
And most fights I've ever seen happen last all of one punch.
the question is not are you tough, but as Stevie Ray Vaughan asked, "are you tough enough?"