Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I think it's very hard, and difficult when someone goes up to me and asks, "Do you think I can pass?" type of questions. I think it's difficult for most people to be put on the spot like that.

Over the last year, I've seen this question lots. I've had people email me this question. And I've hand may local trans ppl ask me the same question.

This is something I've pondered about every time someone asks me this -- and I never really know what to say, because the truth is that I can't answer that and I'm not sure if anyone can, except yourself.

What is "passing" anyway?

I know the literal term -- but really, what is the psychological drive. To live up to someone's real or imagined expectations? And who is that? Yourself? The world around you?

I've looked in the mirror thousands of times and thought, "Gawd, I look awful -- there's no way that I can pass." Yet, I walk out that door, I go to work, and I get ma'am all day. At the start of my transition, naturally and expectantly, I'd get a sir or the question "are you a boy or a girl?" But over time, that happened less and less. There would be days, weeks, months with ma'am until one person would go sir.  *BOOM!* my world would end there.

I'd sit up for days, wondering where I went wrong, analyzing myself over and over -- looking the the mirror and picking part every flaw until I was beaten. I wasted a lot of time when that happened. But why? Why did I care what one person -- who in the whole life of things is less then a blip -- affect me so much?

The most valued piece of advice I got when I was starting out was this: Just be yourself and don't care what others think. Be happy with you.

Easier said than done, but a valuable trait to obtain.

I realized this: the more I focused on passing/not passing the less happier I was, the more fake I felt, and the more I felt as if I was failing. As I focused on "passing" I ended up living in fear.

It took a long time -- and I'm still working on this -- is to be myself and be happy with who I am. Yes, I have flaws -- and so does everyone else. A lot of people aren't able to point out those flaws that I see. Sometimes I think that focusing too much on the flaws is a type of psychological anorexia. Ever notice that an anorexic person will complain about how fat they are, yet the world sees them as skin and bones? Ever notice how much a transexual says they don't pass, when the world sees them differently?

Now, before I get ahead of myself there's one thing I want to mention. SRS and FFS is fine. I had my SRS and I'm very happy. SRS for me was about feeling complete. I don't feel that I need FFS at at this time I've opted out of it; but I also understand and respect those who feel that they need it to feel complete. The surgeries bring a sense of zen to their soul. I also respect those who are non-op and go that direction, as that's a valid option as anything.

Surgeries can help you be happy with who you are; but they do not make you. Only you make you and only you decide if you're going to be yourself and be happy and go forward -- or live in fear, self-hatred, and self-destruction. Surgery isn't the cure for those, but rather surgery is the manifestation of who you are and accepting who you are inside.

Passing isn't self acceptance. It's seeking self-acceptance from the outside world. And you can never rely on the outside world to make you happy. Happiness comes from with in.

One of my friends I was talking to the other day said, "Do I pass or not? I really don't care. Why should I? Why would I let someone else decide who I am when I already know who I am? I just be myself, be happy, and that's been the secret to my success in life."  My friend is 6'3", and one could pick out masculine parts in her and claim she doesn't pass, etc -- but I've never seen a more confident and happier person in the local community as I have with this woman. She's post op, and has been doing this for 7-8 years.

She as an amazing woman. And you know what, when people see her they see the confidence first. They see her happiness. They see her as the woman she really is despite any handicaps one might perceive.

And then I see the other women in the community struggling, constantly using this excuse and the next excuse to beat themselves to the ground. And why? Id doesn't make you happy. And it certainly doesn't help your transition one iota -- often it hinders it as it asks as an excuse not to go forward. Transition is about being yourself, it's not about passing or not passing.

Those who so call "pass" in the worlds eyes pass because passing isn't their focus. They pass because they are who they are and let that shine to the world. People notice when you're confident and see that and don't question you. But when you aren't confident, people also see that and they'll also look for those flaws as well.

Now, there is a certain level of self-respect that comes with being yourself and being happy with yourself. Being yourself doesn't mean you throw on grandma's clothes, go out with facial hair, and unzip your pants to have Mr. Ugly hang out. If you love yourself, you'll go out and find clothes and show that, you'll get electro/laser, and you'll be pretty in your own way. Surgery is also about self-love and being yourself (if that is the route you choose) because you are just being who you are.

So, the opposite extreme of not taking care of yourself isn't a manifestation of self-acceptance or self-love.

When you accept who you are, the rest follows in other words. You'll find clothing styles that fit you and your personality. You'll get ma'amed more often, and not let the odd sir's get you down. You'll find that you'll feel free and actually enjoy life and the transition process. Things will be smoother. You will do your transition for you. You will do your surgeries for you. And you'll be the happier for it.

You won't have to constantly rely on someone else view point (as it will always disappoint in the end). You won't have to spend time worrying. And you won't have to stumble as much. You can actually start on the road, be yourself, and fight for you. You'll be much stronger in the end.

Anyway, this is my thoughts on this and I'm basically just thinking out loud as I'm processing all of this even for myself. Transition is a journey, so someone doesn't automatically accept themselves 100% all of the time. I still second guess myself sometimes. I look in the mirror and catch myself picking at my flaws or finding ways to get acceptance/reassurance from others. It's normal, it's natural, and I recognize that I'm not perfect. It's about being aware of it.

Are you aware why you are asking if you pass? Why are you asking really? Is it assurance? Is it hopes that someone will tear you down and feed your self-loathing? Why not just be, and enjoy the ride. It's about being aware, and letting that awareness take you somewhere. It's not about me changing anyone or saying that one should do it this way or that... that's a journey you make on your own.

--natalie

PS For fun, here's my "before" picture. I could only imagine if I started asking pre-everything if I was going to "pass" or not... that'd be a very difficult and unfair position to put anyone into... and mostly unfair to myself in the end, actually.

July 2004
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh83%2Facadia_green%2Fnate1july-1.jpg&hash=d066d26d48fa742458f2000ed61be7c469e460cb)


July 2008
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh83%2Facadia_green%2Fmestampede2008.jpg&hash=fbeb83b823fb70e70a859342b21b7171a44f53bd)

Although, the be yourself motto seems sane, its actually trite in my opinion,
because we haven't been socialized as a women, at being ourselves will
make us seem like odd disfunctional ducks that "don't pass".

Passing is not just about looks.

Often, because of our issues, we are under socialized, even as men,
so being ourselves, would not even work that well at the human level.

I think that although we change somewhat physically, its more how we
act, that gets us to pass, its a package deal. As we socialize as human,
as a women, we feel more comfortable with expressing who we are. The
communication floodgates are open.

Hi Natalie,

Thank you for for a thought provoking and detailed post.

While I also have to accept that Keira is ultimately right
about the "package deal", what you suggest will clearly
work, but for some of us better than others.

You look great :angel:

:icon_hug:

Chrissty

Natalie-- you nailed it. However, I think most of us go through the phase of "do/can I pass?" It is a form of survival instinct because, if we pass, then it means less harassment and perhaps even more understanding from others we come out to and it can also lead, as you have mentioned before and many of us have experienced, to more troubles. Anyone who has been at this awhile though ends up pretty much where you are right now with the who cares, I am enjoying life attitude.

Thanks for that!

At first I felt that way and was crushed when I was ma'am'd.  Now I don't care if I pass and I'm just myself.  I went into Lowes yesterday, totally confident in myself.  I didn't get sir'd or ma'am'd but it doesn't matter.  The fact that I was confident is key.  It used to be when I went anywhere, esp. stores, I felt incompetent and uncomfortable, as if everyone was staring at me and judging me; that's how uncomfortable I was in my own skin.  I felt ugly.  The social anxiety at times was almost paralyzing.

I'll take comfort and confidence any day, passing or not. 

Jay

At some point, as I think you've shown pretty well, Natalie, it becomes simply a non-starter. You darn well know ya do and just never think about it anymore.

Early on it helps to hear it: yet another one of those things I am certain that our friends and loved ones get tired of hearing in that first year or two when it seems to be "invariably always about me, me, me."

IMO, if you're not there after a year or two and haven't already, ya better be scheduling a surgery or a number of surgeries with Dr. S, O, or Z, or with some other plastic surgeon or body sculptor, if that's what you're after, passing that is.

Nichole

Quote from: Keira
Although, the be yourself motto seems sane, its actually trite in my opinion,
because we haven't been socialized as a women, at being ourselves will
make us seem like odd disfunctional ducks that "don't pass".

Passing is not just about looks.

Often, because of our issues, we are under socialized, even as men,
so being ourselves, would not even work that well at the human level.

I think that although we change somewhat physically, its more how we
act, that gets us to pass, its a package deal. As we socialize as human,
as a women, we feel more comfortable with expressing who we are. The
communication floodgates are open.

Quote from: Chrissty on August 06, 2008, 06:57:17 AM
Hi Natalie,

Thank you for for a thought provoking and detailed post.

While I also have to accept that Keira is ultimately right
about the "package deal", what you suggest will clearly
work, but for some of us better than others.

You look great :angel:

:icon_hug:

Chrissty

Well, of course, it's in there somewhere; being yourself means working at being yourself as well (as I mentioned, surgery, etc is part of that). Otherwise, yes, if someone just ran around saying "I'm being myself / loving myself" and did nothing about it -- is that really loving yourself or allowing you to be yourself? Or is it a form of self-degradation? You have to be the rock in your life, not external factors (imagined or not), to get through transition and beyond. But being yourself also means work and meaning that you transition for you -- not for the approval and acceptance of others -- but for you. And if you're going to be yourself, you're going to be yourself to your best ability.


*hugs* natalie :)

Thanks :D  I'm just a beginner, and I admit I do worry about passing, though know I don't to well right now becuase I still haven't done anything besides dress more masculine than used to.  Still waiting for stuff in mail.

But it is good to be reminded to still be yourself, I only wish it was easy, as being taught how to be a woman can effect how you exist as a man.  I consider myself a Transman, and admit though was offended on here once because I was told I sounded like an androgyne.  I have nothing against Androgynes (don;t missunderstand)  I just don't feel I am one.  So, I don't fit the traditional male ideas, but there are many Genetic men who don't.

I'm caring and passionate, I am a wear emotions on sleeve person.  But does that make me any less a man?  If anything there probably women who would want a man like that LOL  My father was a sensitive genetic male when he was younger.  I only hope that when I work past it that I will not be a stiff and dull as he can be ;)  LOL

Excellent post, Natalie! My jaw hit the floor when I saw the 2004 pic. What an incredible transformation.

Could we maybe get this sticky'd please?

Excellent idea, Nathan. Done.

Nichole

Yay! Thanks Nichole! :)

Quote from: Nichole on August 06, 2008, 10:56:54 AM
At some point, as I think you've shown pretty well, Natalie, it becomes simply a non-starter. You darn well know ya do and just never think about it anymore.

This reminds me of the meme, "The Game," whose rules are:

(1) You start playing when you become aware of "The Game."
(2) You lose every time you think of "The Game." (But you always have an extra life.)
(3) When you lose you have to tell everyone you lost.

Haha, you all lose. So do I.

:P

The only way to win "The Game" is to forget about it completely. Much like passing, I suppose.

~Alyssa

(Who can't pass. But who can deal with that. For now.)





p.s.: To win "The Game," you can also just follow this link (http://xkcd.com/391/) to an xkcd comic strip, which is how I became aware of it in the first place. ;)

I lost the game.... Bastards....


But yeah.

The thoughts you gave on anorexia being similar to seeing all the flaws is interesting... Its kind of a been something for me lately I suppose. I'm utterly unthrilled and often very disgusted by my body when I see it, but my friends have been telling me more and more that I'm looking more feminine and asking if I plan on going full time sometime this year. It kinda terrifies me, but It means a lot coming from them. You make some really good points in that. I'm very often TL;DR cause someones post is like ridiculous, but you kept my attention...

Oh and btw... Caring about passing or not, you look amazing in that picture. ;D

I already know I don't pass... not sure what else can do though that is not beyound who I am.  Though admit have changed just slight things I do habitually such as crossing my ankles and try to be careful my voice doesn't go shrill grr

Probably would help if I could be myself without worrying about what others think.  I still to afraid to pack outside my home.  Doesn;t help there is to many people who have seen me as a female and/or know who I am.

I WOULD WORRY ABOUT PASSING ALSO.I WOULD CONSIDER MYSELF VERY PASSABLE BUT I STILL HAD DAYS WHERE I WOULD FEEL LIKE I MIGHT GET CLOCKED LEFT AND RIGHT. I LEARNED NOT TO CARE ANYMORE. I LEARNED TO CONVINCE MYSELF THAT I AM A WOMAN REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS. 

Cap locks is cruise control for win.

Quote from: deviousxen on August 16, 2008, 03:38:54 PM
Cap locks is cruise control for win.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.kaboose.com%2Fmedia%2F00%2F00%2F04%2Fab%2F62aa2a542305d673d7384afd87ebc8232bde16b8%2F476x357%2FSlideshow-Snickers_476x357.jpg&hash=5b4707ac1c3aeceda94aab9fa86dac9ea029121c)

Quote from: iFindMeHere on September 12, 2008, 05:00:51 AM

Quote from: deviousxen on August 16, 2008, 03:38:54 PM
Cap locks is cruise control for win.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.kaboose.com%2Fmedia%2F00%2F00%2F04%2Fab%2F62aa2a542305d673d7384afd87ebc8232bde16b8%2F476x357%2FSlideshow-Snickers_476x357.jpg&hash=5b4707ac1c3aeceda94aab9fa86dac9ea029121c)

Actually...

I was wrong. AIDs is not win... AIDs is kinda bad.

Quote from: deviousxen on September 12, 2008, 11:13:17 AM

Quote from: iFindMeHere on September 12, 2008, 05:00:51 AM

Quote from: deviousxen on August 16, 2008, 03:38:54 PM
Cap locks is cruise control for win.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.kaboose.com%2Fmedia%2F00%2F00%2F04%2Fab%2F62aa2a542305d673d7384afd87ebc8232bde16b8%2F476x357%2FSlideshow-Snickers_476x357.jpg&hash=5b4707ac1c3aeceda94aab9fa86dac9ea029121c)

Actually...

I was wrong. AIDs is not win... AIDs is kinda bad.

...wait, what?

For a while I was convinced that I passed quite well and I simply needed to avoid people from my past.

More recently I feel I do not pass, in fact recently when ma'amed at a grocery store I was shocked, shocked that the checker perceived me to be female.  Passibility issues are so destructive to who we are (I think it is safe to make that statement, not just for myself but for others also).

I have been full-time for four + years and I have had sex with men who never knew about my TS past and who still don't know but in the last year or so my self confidence has flat-lined and it always felt like a job before as in, "Everything always had to be just right." In order for me to be able to pass.

And it seems like I am yet able to pass in casual circumstances but I am self employed and have no social life or friends or anyone..  In fact sometimes my phone will go several weeks without ringing and then it is either a customer or my Mother.  I feel like my life is almost over and I am still preparing to have a life, somewhere in the future, in the distance..  An idea at best.

I try not to worry about it, close enough for rock and roll and all.  I work with a ten foot rule, I'm sure if you were a few inches away and looked close you could tell, from ten feet away, not so much.

I think the destructiveness of getting clocked may depend on how we deal with it.

If clock = shame/horror/fear then damage

If clock = affirm self then growth

For me I think the more I isolate the worse things are. Alone time is good but not ALWAYS alone. I regularly go to things I think are stupid because I've met some of my best friends that way.

I think how we deal with being clocked depends a lot on where we are at in life and how much we have invested in transition.  Normally I avoid speaking for other people because no one ever seems to agree on anything, I mean, "hardly ever".  There are other variables I am sure... I think it has to do with what a person identifies as and in my own experience my identity changed a lot during transition.  Transition was a very wonderful, scary and difficult time for me and my identity changed throughout transition in order to mentally prepare and withstand certain fears and situations.

For instance I have always identified as female to one degree or another as I was struggling to understand myself and where I needed to be in life but there were times during transition when I identified as a transsexual and for a while I even identified as an "out and proud" transsexual.  It was a way of gathering strength and courage and a way of coping with a situation.  There was even a time when I identified as a cross dresser, that was during a time when I identified as female but never believed for even a second that transition was reasonable, sane or even possible.

Recently I have thought about my situation and I have wondered if I could seek out a partner and identify as transsexual and not worry about integrating or having a new life somewhere else and although I have fond memories of a time when I identified as a transsexual and was with another transsexual in a committed relationship... I feel like that would be moving backwards for me.  I just really need to be who I always have been, a woman.  I need to be taken for granted as a woman, I need to be judged as a woman, I need to be prejudiced as being a woman because being taken for granted, judged and prejudiced as a transsexual brings the added discomfort of Gender Identity Disorder.  I never contemplated a future where I needed to become a transsexual, rather the goal for me has always been to be treated as, judged as, prejudiced as, taken advantage as and rewarded as a woman.

Are transsexuals women to me?  Of course they are M2F = Woman in my book, F2M = Man.  I just can't suffer the constant clash of my reality versus the "realities" and misperceptions of others anymore.  There is no place for me to exist as fully human in their world.  I am not even human to "them" unless you remove the hu part and just leave the man part.  They get the man part.

that sucks. Sounds like participating in some sort of safe space might really help dear. *hugs*

When I answer questions like that, I typically say I used to think there was no was I could pass and now I have no problems.

Sometimes I wonder if I will ever fully pass.  It irritates me when I go somewhere and someone calls me a she especially when I feel there are others who don't know I am biologically female.

I have a MTF friend I hang out with yes, while we are different and going in different directions with different interests we find that what we have in common easier to get through with each others support.  But I do get irritated when people take me as female when with her while she passes well it kinda makes me feel like crap that I don't pass as well as she does.

You will always be more critical of yourself than others will -- even if you pass 110% around others and no one knows, you will always notice your own little flaws and question yourself.

Hey Y'all

                                                                                                 Always Love,
                                                                                                 Heather Rose 

it is always hard to convince myself even i knew of the 'confidence' factor.
and of course, the question of  "if it is all about confidence then why the elaboration in the physical" creeps in making me more nervous.
there are some time that i do very comfortable of being female (i have yet to be "myself"). that day, of course, is halloween (and of course, despite the confidence, i still got called a crossdresser few times - irony?).

on some level, i do think people are generally nice, that is why when one is asked "do i pass" some, or most will try to make some good compliments - whether they are trans or not.
the general population - less the extremes - are either quite oblivious/ignorant or nice.

there's this person at a restaurant where i frequently go that looked very androgyneous. and up till now, i still cannot figure if this person is a he or she. then again, i don't feel all that big of an issue. i am not going to stop comming to the place because there's a trans working.

having said that, i cannot seem to apply that thought on myself. i guess because we are our own worst critiques and need to understand that there are more than just getting approval. life goes on after passing (no pun intended).. 

QuoteThe social anxiety at times was almost paralyzing.

I'll take comfort and confidence any day, passing or not

Jay I've so been there.

And LOL@ cyanides "life goes on after passing"

Quote from: gothique11 on January 05, 2009, 06:38:20 AM
You will always be more critical of yourself than others will -- even if you pass 110% around others and no one knows, you will always notice your own little flaws and question yourself.

This absolutely echos with me.

I had a strange transition. I fought going full time for probably too long. The more I was ma'amed the more I hyper-masculinized because I was too afraid to attempt full time. I just wasn't ready.

One day, I finally tried it. I've never been sir'ed since, but that's created a precarious turmoil within me.

Isn't this supposed to be harder?

Shouldn't I be struggling with the periodic sir?

I prepared for the actual shift in perceptual gender to be MUCH harder... what happened?

This HAS to be harder.

From the day I went FT... I waited for the inevitable "sir." It didn't come. As days turned to weeks, weeks into months, months into years, it just never came. But still I expect it.

As a result... I'm not convinced I pass. I'm sure I don't. My friends are just being nice. My family just doesn't want to hurt me with the truth. Complacent? No, not me! Never.

I'm certain I don't pass, and so I wait to hear the truth... everyday.

It's exhausting.

Quote from: lacitychick21 on February 01, 2009, 05:35:33 PM

Quote from: gothique11 on January 05, 2009, 06:38:20 AM
You will always be more critical of yourself than others will -- even if you pass 110% around others and no one knows, you will always notice your own little flaws and question yourself.

This absolutely echos with me.

...

Shouldn't I be struggling with the periodic sir?

I prepared for the actual shift in perceptual gender to be MUCH harder... what happened?

This HAS to be harder.

... As days turned to weeks, weeks into months, months into years, it just never came. But still I expect it.

As a result... I'm not convinced I pass. I'm sure I don't. My friends are just being nice. My family just doesn't want to hurt me with the truth. Complacent? No, not me! Never.

I'm certain I don't pass, and so I wait to hear the truth... everyday.

It's exhausting.

I really understand both of those statements, at least the parts of Laci's I left in there.

Yeah, it never comes although I wait on it all of the time, not so much consciously I just realize that I do, from time-to-time, hear this background noise and realize it's saying "goddess you look so bad!." Yet, no one ever meets me, or sees me and asks about the guy. Not even SE Asians, little kids and early teen girls who always seem to have the inside track on "reading." :)

Yet, periodically I realize that I often wonder when the day is arriving where everyone begins to laugh and say "We sure had ya going, didn't we!"

O, well, looks like a long-term joke is on their agenda. :)

Quote from: lacitychick21 on February 01, 2009, 05:35:33 PM

Shouldn't I be struggling with the periodic sir?

I prepared for the actual shift in perceptual gender to be MUCH harder... what happened?

This HAS to be harder.[/i]

From the day I went FT... I waited for the inevitable "sir." It didn't come. As days turned to weeks, weeks into months, months into years, it just never came. But still I expect it.

i sort of had a similiar experience. although i was not ma'am'd .. there wasn't any sort of commotion or doubt of who i am being. i soon realized that i was expecting a little too much from just being female. the wanting of.. yay, i did it.. LOOK... LOOK.. LOOOOK ATTT MEEEEEE...

but..  then what?

what's next?

When I look at these posts I reflect back on my own personality and individuality.

There have been times in the past where I have been called out as if I were a female and recently it happened a few times which feel good to me.

I do not think passing really covers who you are but it also saves you trouble in the long-run.
My body has always been feminine as long as I can remember and my facial features just seem right enough to pass anyway but in the other hand I think about the stereotypical anorexic female or male who throws up all the time to stay thin and damages their body that way.

Just like another poster said its the same thing, just like druggies use drugs to excuse themselves from real life problems they refuse to solve now and later.

Be yourself, be proud and the more you show your confidence that over-writes any suspicious feeling at all.
Like I told my girlfriend; when you meet a female and she displays confidence and security over who she is, it is difficult to tell whether or not she is a male or just a female because she's happy and content.

Now take a female who constantly looks to see if she passes or not from being a male, if you catch any non-confident body language or language it will be as obvious as the zit on your face.

There is a difference between loving and hating yourself, I choose to love myself :3
(Of course I am not happy with who I am physically as of now and plan to change that aspect a bit, I am still happy with my personality and traits because there will always be room for improvement)

I don't think measuring passability by getting sir'ed or maam'ed is sufficient enough.

Passing = looks + presentation

Even if you are passable, there are mean people out there who look for signs on purpose and try to dig further to make meanings out of it. Sometimes it doesn't matter how feminine a ts woman is with her face, body, voice and mannerisms, some people just know; most of these people will not say anything to your face, may talk behind you or try to work you out with other people and few will make typical phrases and tell you that "somebody told them you are/were...or you used to...".
And some will carry on and share the exclusive with others and ruin your life and cause you grief in your private or work life without realising what they are doing it and those type of people just do not get it and they carry on. Its unneccesary crap and none of us needs it since we have enough on our plate as it is. To avoid all of this, its the best idea to do whatever it takes to achieve ultimate transformation by all means and move on and get better with time, its a process...

But if there is always someone out there who knows - either from before or they just figure it out somehow - isn't it better to just accept who you are?

I live in a smallish town, so lots of people know my past.  I had testosterone poisoning for many, many years, so I don't know that I'll ever always pass.  And I'm older than many on this forum.  Perhaps my perspective doesn't apply to your situation - I don't know. 

But all that said, I am learning to accept the fact that regardless of whether people see me as a transwoman or a cis-woman, the operative term here is woman.

I've hidden who I was for too long.  Screw it. >:(

- Kate

I didn't think that I could ever pass anywhere anytime - I'm 6 foot for a start and have broad shoulders and that's without mentioning the big nose, hands and huge feet....... so although I do behave as female and do believe in myself, I do always assume that EVERYONE has read me ..... and that is my life, so screw them, as long as they're polite and treat me as female.

....but..... I have learned via secondhand info that several people have NOT read me, including a couple of middle aged neighbours   :o   I'm astonished that this is so, but it is definitely correct because third parties have reported back their comments and conversation after I left.

I fully expected to get read 100% of the time, so if it's only 95% then I'm I'm grateful for the short-sightedness of the other 5% ....... and extremely thankful to the 94% who treat me with respect and as female anyway.

Quote from: jade on September 10, 2009, 05:41:01 AM
I don't think measuring passability by getting sir'ed or maam'ed is sufficient enough.

I agree.  I always say that being recognized as trans and respected is as nauseating to me as someone referring to me as female.  Since neither has happened in years, it's something I rarely (if ever) think about.

Quote from: MisterQuote from: jade on Yesterday at 06:41:01 am

    I don't think measuring passability by getting sir'ed or maam'ed is sufficient enough.
I agree.  I always say that being recognized as trans and respected is as nauseating to me as someone referring to me as female.  Since neither has happened in years, it's something I rarely (if ever) think about.

No, Sir or Ma'm is not sufficient indication of whether or not you've actually been read, in that you are correct.
What puzzles me is ".....being recognized as trans and respected is as nauseating...."
Presumably you'd be happier if they spat on you and called you "->-bleeped-<-?"

Also...... If you personally haven't been read in years then lucky you, but a great many of the users of this site - including me - are not and never will be so fortunate so it might be in order for you to give a little more thought to their feelings before posting.

Quote from: Steffi on September 11, 2009, 03:04:01 PM
No, Sir or Ma'm is not sufficient indication of whether or not you've actually been read, in that you are correct.
What puzzles me is ".....being recognized as trans and respected is as nauseating...."
Presumably you'd be happier if they spat on you and called you "->-bleeped-<-?"

Also...... If you personally haven't been read in years then lucky you, but a great many of the users of this site - including me - are not and never will be so fortunate so it might be in order for you to give a little more thought to their feelings before posting.

Gee, and here I thought that I could post my opinion on this topic.  You know, just like everyone else has been doing. 

MY OPINION is that I did not transition to be recognized as trans. If I were to be recognized as such, I would, yes, be nauseated.  As for being spit on and called '->-bleeped-<-,' I'll leave that to the legions of members that you say will never be able to pass. 

Well, being recognized and respected is not quite as bad as being spit on, but it's still a self-esteem crusher.

As estrogen has made my physical skin thinner, my psychological skin has gotten thicker. I really don't give a damn what anyone thinks anymore, or as Dee_pntx so eloquently put it in another thread, "I'm f/t, so wtf?" It's been surprising to me that most people don't even notice and less even care.

Mister
Yeah..... I was too quick on the draw and on re-reading, my post had a more stinging tone than intended.

Quote from: gothique11 on August 06, 2008, 04:42:29 AM

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh83%2Facadia_green%2Fnate1july-1.jpg&hash=d066d26d48fa742458f2000ed61be7c469e460cb)

Wow. You look very intense.

Damnit... I lost the game... and I was winning too...

As for the wall of text you just posted (A fun wall of text to read, unlike a lot of walls of text) I think we all know somewhere inside that inner happiness can carry you through all of lifes difficulties, and makes life much more pleasent and thus should be your top priority. So who cares if you pass or not? Are you happy or not?

More people should listen to thier inner guru...

you look like such a happy male. lololol

Sorry! :] I could resist. 

You look great now :D

Well, Dee, all I can say is WOW!

You go, grrrl! ;D

Quote from: Dee_pntx on September 11, 2009, 07:56:48 PM
I am a woman.
I live as a woman full time, in every way possible, at all times.
And it's GOOD to be a woman.  I was miserable presenting as a male.  Miserable.

Amen, sister.  I so hear you. ;)

- Kate

Quote from: Steffi on September 11, 2009, 06:01:19 PM
Mister
Yeah..... I was too quick on the draw and on re-reading, my post had a more stinging tone than intended.

No problem. :)