Ok, so this is for significant others. I don't fit into that category, but I'm a parent with a lot of questions and I don't really see any other place to look. Her (still male but psychologically female so I'm gonna use female pronoun) wife isn't all that supportive, but my wife and I are going to the max to support our eventually-to-be daughter. Jess came out to us Monday afternoon/night/Tuesday morning. Apparently, she was really surprised by our acceptance. We had known something wasn't right for about six years, and were really worried about her. I know this is a HUGE issue for her, but we were really relieved that it was something that has a solution. She had bottled up her feelings for so long, it was really nice to hear her laugh. I have enormous feelings of guilt that she was so miserable at what she perceived as her failure to live up to what she perceived as my expectations. She has been seeing a therapist of 'depression' but that was only a small part of the problem. After talking to my wife and me, she's in the process of finding a new therapist with experience in the right area. Because of her current situation at her home, she will be moving in with my wife and myself, and, hopefully, staying with us throughout her transition. After telling the two kids still at home (both male--ages 18 and 15); their response was 'ok, no big deal,' their biggest concern was that she would be hogging the bathroom. That was alleviated when we discussed chores. She is going to take over cleaning up the kitchen, and both boys were overjoyed. We HAVE tried to raise them in a somewhat open, accepting manner; I guess it worked. I'm somewhat confused about all this, and feeling guilty that she's been SO miserable for so long. I feel like it's something that I should have known about a long time ago, so we could have started working together for a solution. But, that's water under the bridge. What I need to know is what I can specifically do to help her through a long, involved, painful (both physically and emotionally) process. As to acceptance, after raising five boys, having a daughter is going to be a lot of fun. Pity she doesn't like fishing, though; that's a big part of my life, but I have to understand that fishing is part of MY life, not her's. Right now, we've told her that she is ALWAYS welcome in our home (especially as she is going to move in), and to act like herself, in whatever way she feels comfortable. What we need to know is how to make her feel comfortable. I suppose I have to pound it through her head that even if she is female, that doesn't mean she can't thump the crap out of anyone who bothers her. Self-defense is a viable option, at least in my opinion. Even to the point of armed response. Do I worry about her? Hell yes, I do. The therapist she had been seeing managed to push her almost to the point of suicide. I was ready to kill him. Literally. Fortunately, she got that mess straightened out, and got some good advice (and an apology) from him. Hmm, this posting isn't turning out quite like I planned. I guess I'm just rambling on. We had a saying when I was in the Air Force: "I may not agree with their choice, but I will defend with my life their right to make that choice." Well, that still holds with me. Her choice isn't one that I'd make, but I am determined to support it. I just need the tools and information to do that. I welcome any comments, recommendations, references, hell, just about anything that will help us out.
wajdi (Jess' dad)
You are a great father wajdi.
Jessica is very fortunate to have you. I think most all information you seek is available at Susan's main page, wiki, links or the forum.
I do have one comment that i think is important. It is extreamly important for you to help and support Jessica in any way you can, but be careful not to take the lead. Transgendered/transsexuals need to go at their own pace, sometimes even stalling for a bit before moving on. be ready to help when ever she needs it and be ready to leave her be if she seems content to remain as she is at some point along the way. rather than a trip from San Francisco to NYC that we plan an arrival date and schedule our stops, this is just heading east, driving as far as we feel like today and taking each fork in the road as they come. Some of us end up in montana or florida and never make it to NYC.
You are a special man wajdi, i know you will be a great help to Jessica. i wish you all much love and happiness.
beth
I'm sure I speak for many of us when I say we'll do our best to answer your questions and help where we can.
It's refreshing to see a parent with your attitude. My mum's coming around, but wouldn't reach out for help if it was sitting in her living room. My dad, unfortunately, passed away a couple of years ago. I think he would've been a great help in helping Mum understand this.
When Jess finds a therapist, it might help you to talk to that person too if there's anything you're still pondering.
Dennis
Quote from: wajdi on June 30, 2005, 01:54:21 PM
Ok, so this is for significant others. I don't fit into that category, but I'm a parent with a lot of questions and I don't really see any other place to look.
Parents and family are significant others. It's anyone who through a relationship has a close association with a transsexual. The relationship could be marriage, dating, family, and more. So yes you are a significant other. I am sure Jess would agree.
While the title does mention those who are dealing with GID this is a great resource.
www.pflag.org (http://www.pflag.org)
Parents and Friends of Lesbians And gays
I debated adding a more pronounced "for parents" board, but ultimately, I my mind, this SO board fits the bill, I think. To me, as a child of my Mother and Father, my Mother and Father are my Significant Others. Perhaps in that I have never been married my view is slanted.
For what it is worth I suggested to my Father (who sits to my left, by the by) to drop by. It's summer here finally and his gyro copter is holding his attention pretty good though so who knows ;)
From where I stand, in my situation with my wonderful parents, what I need of them is to be there, to offer advice and support. To keep me grounded in reality. To be there to talk to... really, all those things parents normally do for their children.
I agree with the others, parents are definitely a significant part of our lives therefore this is the place for them to seek advice, and offer help and assistance to others. I have yet to come out to my parents, and I'm not sure if I will. They now live in England and our relationship has always been on the cool side. My mother married three time and we were always on the move, so we were never able to set down roots. Jessica is blessed to have parents who obviously love and support her, they are definitley couragous.
Wajdi this is a great place to start. There is lots of information and help here, not to mention a wealth of sound advice.
Definetly just to echo what everyone else has said.... Yea you are a significant other, my spouse is TG and I've been itching to have another member who has a family member who is TG :) we're all family.... family are definetly significant other people in your life, eh :) ...
Its great to hear that you're supporting Jess, I'm sure it was really hard for her to come out and tell you... And I also respect you may not agree with her decisions but Its great that as a loving parent, you're sticking by her :)
as for advice, Just post around the board... all of the folks here are so sweet, and understanding... 4years made a post just today https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,455.0.html its basically an ettiquate guide for those who have any relationship with a transgendered person..... I found it very helpful :)
Perhaps the Parents/Loved Ones (https://www.susans.org/reference/index.html#Parents/Loved%20Ones) section of susans.org (https://www.susans.org/)'s Reference Library (https://www.susans.org/reference/index.html) is of value.
Its really great that youve decided to support her choice, though I know it may not be easy at first, it is best for all concerned. An open, honest relationship is a healthy one and god knows she's been under enough stress keeping this to herself. I wish you the best in your journey and you have my admiration.
Sarah :)
My God!! How could we NOT support her? She is our child, no matter what, and we love her.
wajdi
Wajdi, let me first say that I envy Jess for the parents she has and their will to try to understand and support her all the way through. That in my book is a major factor in her transition. Everyone needs support, but to know you have your parents behind you, helping all they can, would make the road so much easier.
I for one would like to shake your hand Wajdi, because a lot of parents and families "disown" or simply make life much harder for gender people when they find out.
I would give my right arm and leg to have my parents support me the way you are Jess. Funny thing is, my parents already knew there was something wrong with me because of the intersexed issue, but I was forced to live as their "daughter" as a child. However, now that I am an adult, I finally realized I don't have to continue living my life for them or anyone else. I can be who I was meant to be and by doing so, my parents and sister are disowning me. They refuse to address me by "he" and if anyone else does, they are quick to correct them. They refuse to call me by my new male name, only using the one they give me at birth, etc.
So my point is, what you and your wife are doing for Jess, standing by her side, will give her the confidence she needs to face this cruel world, with her head high!!
that is so cool! you help your daughter in everyway possible (as many parents say, but end up doing everything so we dont transition) and you are already calling her by her new name!
There are many reasons for parents not supporting. its "the path of the devil" many conservatives say. or the first thing parents think of is a gay manin womens clothes. Also they think its a phase. ONe of the reasons is also, that they dont want their son/daughter to go through all the pain. They also dont want to lose their son or daughter.. and so on
the more i read your most, more i wish you were my parents....
Not so much loosing a son; but gaining the daughter we never had.
wajdi
(= It's neat like that
Unfortunately the majority of parents (I hope I am wrong!) seem to want to not see it that way. But then, I personally think the majority of parents don't deserve the right (to be parents) either. I'm kind of critical though.
I have hopes for my mum to see it that way. She's taking a little longer than Wajdi and Xagira, but she'll get there, I'm sure.
Dennis
I can't say enough about how much I'm in love with that kind of love, what it means to jess is beyond any words, as when you can always come home to that kind of love, the outside world can just, well, take a flying leap if they don't like it.
When you have what is important in life, what else matters?
Terri
WooHoo!! Ordered Jess a wig, and xagira and Jess did some "dress up" with some of xagira's dresses. Jess is on pins and needles waiting (just barely) for the wig to arrive. Can you say we're excited?
wajdi
"Jess is on pins and needles waiting (just barely) for the wig to arrive. Can you say we're excited?"
Uh-oh daddy, here comes the wardrobe bill. Daughters don't come cheap ya know, take it from one with four of the little darlings. "but daddy, it's so cute, I really need it. I have to have it?"
daughters, pain in the lilly. Give boys a swift kick toward the door and their happy and love ya,, but daughters?
hahhahahahaahahhah
Terri
I got a chance to speak to Jessica and her parents tonight they are exceptional people. :)
I remember Jessica's first post and how much i wanted her to come back and join us. i am so glad that she has done so very well in such a short time. We all need people like her parents in our lives, but they are so rare.
beth
Quote from: beth on July 04, 2005, 11:47:45 PM
I remember Jessica's first post and how much i wanted her to come back and join us. i am so glad that she has done so very well in such a short time. We all need people like her parents in our lives, but they are so rare.
Me too - I wanted her to find comfort in this area like Jaycie has... (eventhough she doesn't post :P lol) and the rest of you.... So happy!
And I agree... women are expensive! sheesh! Jaycie has gotten more new clothes, shoes and makeup the last month than I have lol
A good support system is one of the key elements to a successful transition. While it's not always necesary, it does take the preasure off knowing that no matter what, there is always someone you can turn to. My wife is key to me as is Susans', life would be a whole lot more complicated without both of them :)
Cloths, shoes, make-up... don't say that too loud... :) I think that I have a shopping problem, well at least my wife does :) I don't know what it is I just love to shop now. I could sort of understand if I lived in town, but I live out in the country and it takes me 45 minutes to get to the stores
I understand shopping. Clothing and accessories are like me and fishing stuff, LOL.
Jess is so very fortunate to have supportive parents, and I have great respect for parents that support as well as you do.
When it comes to shopping,, I love it too, and as a girl at heart, we cannot seem to get enough of it
I too live quite a distance from where I can go shopping in comfort, and have to travel at least 1 1/2 hours to get to a city where I feel comfortable.
I wish you all the very best, and look forward to hearing how things are progressing
Denise:
shopping is getting to be a strange affair for me also, used to be, I knew what I wanted, I went to where I knew I could get it, purchase it and I had what I wanted, nothing more, nothing less. Now I go in with a basic idea of things i might want. look around and see if anything in the store strikes my fancy, if something does, how does it fit in? is it making, or saving money for me? or, is it just eating cash because it can? just gotta ask me that one before I lay down the cash. sometimes that question makes it less attractive. No problem though, buy any or not, I have a good time.
Terri
wajdi,
Lots of people here have already said it, but I'll say it again. Jess is very lucky to have the parents that she does. I haven't heard of too many parents that accept there child's GID unconditionally like you have. My Mom and Step-Dad are just like you guys. I am one of the lucky ones, and I try and not forget that.
Speaking from the perspective of someone who's already well into transition and has incredibly loving & accepting parents, I know that the support they've given me throughout this ordeal has been a blessing. I can't imagine anyone being unsuccessful in transition when they have parents like me and your daughter.
As for helping her through it, just be there for her. As Beth said, there's no need to try & lead her. A lot of the problems I've had to deal with were problems that I had to deal with, and me alone. Sure, my Mom was there to listen when I needed to vent, but what has meant the most to me is that my entire family has treated me like I was Amy my whole life. That's what I needed more than anything. And again, I agree with Beth... Jess needs to go at her own pace. A lot of the stages she's going to go through she probably won't know are coming till they already are there. I didn't know I was going to go part-time until the day I decided to do it. But when I did, it was when I wanted to, without any prodding from anyone else, and it was the right time.
Yeah, I'm a shop-a-holic now. Even if I don't buy anything, I spend at least 3-4 days a week shopping. Today I was was at the mall for 3 hours. I went in a dozen shops, each for a considerable amount of time, and ended up buying two tops, both considerably marked down. (I hate paying full price for anything!!!) Whenever my friends call me and ask me what I'm doing, I invariably say, "Shopping." They all know better than to even ask anymore. I think the salesgirls in Express recognize me now.
Sometimes I wonder if I shop too much, but then I realize that as long as I'm not spending money that's supposed to be going elsewhere, why not? I'm a girl now, and I love to shop! And I'm a musician, so I have lots of free time. ;D
Best of luck wadji,
Amy
My mum went to New York and brought me back cufflinks and a bottle of scotch. I think she's getting it!
(Nice cufflinks too, but she could use a lesson in single malts)
:)
Dennis
I want to thank all of ya'll for your kind words and advice. As Dennis (the hurricane) approaches, we'd all appreciate any prayers on our behalf directed at whatever diety or dieties ya'll believe in. Ivan hit us last fall, and recovery efforts are still incomplete from that storm. Dennis (NOT the hurricane), I used to be rather fond of Glenlivet and/or Glenfiddich. Livet is a tad better than fiddich, but I wouldn't turn either of them down. Thanks again for the words of wisdom. I STILL can't believe that parents don't have their kids happiness as their foremost priority. Maybe it's presumptive of me, but. . . what a bunch of jerks. Too bad there isn't some sort of test folks have to take to prove their fitness prior to becoming parents.
Yeah, it was Glenfiddich, so wasn't too bad a choice at all. I'm quite fond of Cardhu, but it's hard to find. I like Glenlivet too.
Dennis (not the hurricane)
Quote from: wajdi on July 09, 2005, 04:41:04 PM
Too bad there isn't some sort of test folks have to take to prove their fitness prior to becoming parents.
There is a test. Its called being heterosexual. That fulfuills all the criteria the states and feds care about.
I'm with you Wadji,
As a parent of six I can't understand parents who don't just love their kids as they are.
I agree completly
i have three wonderfull kids and i would support them what ever they choose , i might try to see if they really know what they are doing but i wouldnt try to change their minds.
well mayby try a little, have to butt in some... Ellen
hmm... a parents test...
unfortunately, sex is held sacred above all else in this society, it seems, goodness knows why. held above childrens' best interests... in lots of ways... a "good parent test" or equivalent being one of them... and not even the worst one (!!)
that makes me really sad, you know :'( people will put another session of selfish animal pleasure seeking above their responsibilities to the creation of new lifeforms... and the rule of law teaches them, "that's perfectly okay. your children ARE your property - and the more you have, the more money we'll give you, thus instilling that impression!" i for one (amongst many) don't think that's right. "oh, and we could never, ever dare do anything to restrict people having sex whenever they damn well felt like it without giving a damn about the consequences." no, you couldn't do that, could you... that would be morally wrong, wouldn't it? sheesh.
you seem like one of the best parents in the world. i echo that sentiment completely, made by many others here. i also, sadly, realise that perhaps my own parents aren't quite as good as i think of them as. and that's the first time i've ever said, or seriously considered, that. they're nothing, absolutely nothing, like the kind of people i was having a go at in the above paragraph, nothing at all like that. yet with all else the love you might hope for they show me - two things stand out - neither will call me properly - neither will talk about it. so unusual of them. don't know why, just don't know why. so confusing.
i am jealous. she is really lucky. it's a sad fact that you have to be "lucky", but it's true. you have entirely a great attitude. i'm sure your daughter's life is made a lot easier for it... really i couldn't explain all the difference even the smallest little thing makes in this way... good for you.
Quote from: Svetlana on August 08, 2005, 01:18:07 AM
that makes me really sad, you know :'( people will put another session of selfish animal pleasure seeking above their responsibilities to the creation of new lifeforms... and the rule of law teaches them, "that's perfectly okay. your children ARE your property - and the more you have, the more money we'll give you, thus instilling that impression!" i for one (amongst many) don't think that's right. "oh, and we could never, ever dare do anything to restrict people having sex whenever they damn well felt like it without giving a damn about the consequences." no, you couldn't do that, could you... that would be morally wrong, wouldn't it? sheesh.
I find it difficult to understand your rambling but: Are you advocating if its not for procreation sex should be abstained from?
sorry - i do ramble. i'm not very good at wording things and i oftentimes get convoluted.
maybe having a baby without registering to be capable of parenting it first (or without special circumstances (such as rape)) should be a crime. that would stop people shagging like nobody's business without a thought or a care... or at least punish them for bringing a life into the world without the means or the will to give it the life it deserves at bare minimum.
maybe social attitudes should shift so that it's no longer acceptable for parents to be so possessive about 'their' children. ie. one phrase in particular - "how dare you tell me how to raise my children!" - demonstrates the seriousness of that part of the situation. well if you won't accept advice from anybody, how ever are you going to learn? and if somebody else thinks something's wrong, isn't it in your childrens' best interests to at least listen to what they have to say? stuff like that.
disowning a family member should also be something that's very difficult to do - as should be opting to neglect to give a damn. like i say, people who aren't going to give a damn, shouldn't make babies! that's why the whole "official setup" thing i suggest in the second paragraph in this reply would be so helpful - it doesn't assume that a family take on the responsibility - it requires it. and if something goes wrong, explanations must be heard, and reasons argued over. so you lose a little privacy maybe. i'd swap that for the prevention of bad blood and broken homes from being a commonplace occurrence, anyday. in fact, forget marriage altogether - make it for the rights to make babies instead - that would be much more practical.
firstly, i don't agree with casual sex just for the high. if you're going to do that, just get a damn toy. same high. no messing with peoples' lives. lots of problems solved there.... i wouldn't think going about legislating that would do any good however - changing peoples' attitudes and perceptions - much more effective than just simply changing laws. with today's media machine, it shouldn't be very difficult, either!!
i don't know... it just seems like sex > everything, these days. when i hear of stuff like rapists not being kept away from non-rapists for the ACTUAL remainder of their lives... and likewise paedophiles away from children... it just saddens me. what possible justification is there for that? WHY are these people not neutered? don't gimme that "it's all about the power, not the sex" argument - doesn't really make a difference here - given a choice between being beaten up and being raped, i know which i'd go for - and neutering prevents the other, so it's useful... NOT for retribution. NOT for a vague sense of what's right. for the thing and the only thing which is important - to prevent it from ever happening again, or in the first place, as much as possible.
so why don't they do that? why does this seem 'extreme' to them? why is it considered 'unfair' or 'undue' punishment? barbaric? what then about the victim, was that not infinitely more barbaric? so why not then? my guess - "because it's sex, and sex is sacred and we can't touch anything to do with sex". or something stupid like that. i don't know.
it just sickens me, the way sex is everywhere and everything is something to do with sex. it's a bloody disease of some kind or something. why can't it just simply be what it actually is and nothing more? people should treat it with the respect it deserves, not as some kind of "gimme x1000" free automatic privelege to be abused at will! my theorey is that it's that kind of environment which causes a LOT of the problems of the modern world - including children being disowned when discovered to be transgendered; one issue amongst so many others. caused by the environment... environment caused by attitudes... attitudes pumped through the idiot box and absorbed by idiots. unfortunately there are lots of people about who can't be bothered to not be an idiot.
you know what i heard on the news a few months ago? teacher caught abusing her position with a minor. friggin' child abuser. what did she get? NOT A YEAR. NOT EVEN A SINGULAR BLEEDIN' YEAR. should be life = life = life = rest of natural life with no reduction, and instead it's a ruddy few months. what has the world come to? she was smiling, too! she didn't give a damn! she didn't get punished at all - she effectively PURCHASED an abuse session with a 15-y-old kid. bloody purchased it for a few months of lock-up, buy now pay later. horrible just horrible.
i'm sorry i know i go on about this too much, but can you blame me for being paranoid and angry at the state of things when this is the world we are meant to be thankful for living in?
...
...
okay, i've calmed down now. it just... boils my blood, i'm afraid, when i get on that subject.
the original thing i was only ever going to say before going off on a complete tangent... simply a comment on how refreshing it is to read that there are still good decent caring people about.
I agree Svetland,
It was dsigusting yet a male did the same thing with a girl and went to gaol. It is an abuse of trust. I don't send my kids to school to be taken advantage of by someone in a position of trust.
Our kids are a very precious comodity and as adults it is our job to nurture them into the world of adults.
Shelley