Homosexuality And The Laws Of Moral Physics
http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_212206390.shtml (http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_212206390.shtml)
J. Matt Barber
2/7/09
So, what does the Bible have to say about human sexuality? Specifically, what does Scripture say about homosexuality?
Again, it's fundamental. Homosexual behavior, like adultery, fornication, incest and bestiality is, under no uncertain terms, classified as sexual immorality in both the Old and New Testaments. The historical and biblical records are unequivocal. In order to reach a contrary conclusion, people like President Obama, who rationalize that the Bible somehow affirms homosexual behavior – or at least remains neutral on the subject – are forced to cast aside any pretense of intellectual honesty and engage in gold medal mental gymnastics.
sorry, what's this post about?
?
I agree with this generally. From a Biblical standpoint it is pretty straight forward , at least in the Old Testament, and even though Paul's words can be minced a little bit, its also pretty specific in the New Testament.
I know most Christians who rationalize a favorable standpoint on homosexuality do it based on the New Testament's (specifically Jesus') higher tenants of selfless (charitable) love, but in doing so exclusively they can also justify a whole lot of other bad things the Bible warns against.
I don't have strong feelings on this either way with regard to homosexuality or the Bible, but I so feel like it is important to be consistent with your own belief system - or at least if you believe something that IS inconsistent with your cannon, at least recognize it.
EDIT: I didn't read the article, just responded to the OP's response.
Quote from: Katia on February 07, 2009, 11:59:25 PM
Again, it's fundamental. Homosexual behavior, like adultery, fornication, incest and bestiality is, under no uncertain terms, classified as sexual immorality in both the Old and New Testaments.
Ho hum. Pork, shellfish, divorce, blended fabrics, cleaning of cookware, and all the other things fundamentalists choose to ignore when reading the Bible.
We know exactly what a basic adherence to the bible looks like, its called Hasidic Judaism, and at that only dates back to the 18th Century or so.
Quote from: Lisbeth on February 08, 2009, 01:17:35 PMHo hum. Pork, shellfish, divorce, blended fabrics, cleaning of cookware, and all the other things fundamentalists choose to ignore when reading the Bible.
The last time I checked, the Christian Bible still contained Acts 10-11.
(It also contains commandments in Genesis not to eat any meat whatsoever. Biblical law becomes more liberal the farther you read.)
Let's see if I can give a gloss of the theological implications of Acts 10-11. <ahem>
The Old Testament is not contrary to the New: for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to Mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and Man, being both God and Man. Wherefore they are not to be heard, which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral.(Okay, I stole that -- here's the link to the source: http://www.saintgabriels.org/bcp/hist.html (http://www.saintgabriels.org/bcp/hist.html))
The old shellfish-and-cotton-poly-blend argument won't work with anyone who knows the tiniest bit about Christian theology.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on February 09, 2009, 04:30:25 AM
The old shellfish-and-cotton-poly-blend argument won't work with anyone who knows the tiniest bit about Christian theology.
No, but this one will: "It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall." (Romans 14:21; 1 Corinthians 8:13)
How so? I'm confused...
Quote from: CindyJames on February 08, 2009, 03:21:39 AM
sorry, what's this post about?
?
the usual, baiting christians.
what are moral physics?
I hope I don't offend anyone,
But; there no Gods. You live. You die. You rot.
End of story.
Cindy J
Quote from: CindyJames on February 10, 2009, 02:57:42 AM
I hope I don't offend anyone,
But; there no Gods. You live. You die. You rot.
End of story.
Cindy J
Certainly no offense, but I know at least one finds this rather amusing, with a touch of sadness. Simplified.
In my opinion, the belief that the Bible is literally true, ranks right there with the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.
The Bible has wonderful value when read allegorically. They are stories, and the stories contain the biases of the culture at the time. NO sacred text should be taken literally, including the Koran, the Hebrew scriptures and the New Testament.
what are moral physics
If you drop your girlfriend, she will fall, but in space no one can hear you scream.
Quote from: Virginia87106 on February 10, 2009, 09:18:12 AM
In my opinion, the belief that the Bible is literally true, ranks right there with the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.
The Bible has wonderful value when read allegorically. They are stories, and the stories contain the biases of the culture at the time. NO sacred text should be taken literally, including the Koran, the Hebrew scriptures and the New Testament.
of course, the whole point of the koran to muslims is that is the literal, direct and total word of god to the letter, which is why they learn the language to read it in and set such store by remembering chunks. To say the koran shouldn't be taken literally is as against the idea od islam as to say there is no god.
The Sufi branch of Islam do not take the text literally, as well as millions of moderate to liberal Moslems who do not keep the strict Islamic laws.
Once again, everything is quote but, that Christ said "I am the fulfillment of the law". Thus voiding the old testament. And anything that is after the Gospels, wasn't directly from Christ.
They always point to certain passages that were not of Christ. Christ loved everyone, even the Homosexuals and Transgendered. So if the Christians are like Christ, they have to love us and forgive us.
Janet
Quote from: Virginia87106 on February 10, 2009, 11:55:24 AM
The Sufi branch of Islam do not take the text literally, as well as millions of moderate to liberal Moslems who do not keep the strict Islamic laws.
Much of what Westerners think of when we think of "Islamic law" does not come from the Qur'an, but from the hadith. There is much more room for dissent and interpretation regarding the hadith than the Qur'an.
Well I read the whole little rant and gee, it really depends on which version of the bible one reads. The KJV and ASV does not mention the word homosexual anywhere at all. The WEB version does of course but thats a fairly resent version thats some liberties with the original text. Of course one should really dig into the original hebrew for the real meaning.
Sorry I'm an old KJV girl and really have a hard time when the WEB bible implies a bit more then the original bible did. well OK the KJV anyway as that's a rewrite or four away from the original scrolls.
Frankly if we are all to follow the exact word of the bible, Well not many people truely are.
Quote from: Beni on February 10, 2009, 09:31:32 PM
Frankly if we are all to follow the exact word of the bible, Well not many people truely are.
I think I could deal with the 612 mitzvot from the Torah, but that new stuff is just too much -- "turn the other cheek," "forgive your brother seven times seventy-seven times," "do unto others as you would that they do unto you," "love one another as I have loved you." It's so much easier to obsess over antiquated codes of conduct than to actually be a decent person.
i only have to forgive 539 times? my dad must be getting near his limit.
593 only works for your brother. I think the figure for fathers is twelve times forty-nine and a third.
Hi Sugar and Spice
I really don't want offend so maybe I'll disappear from this thread. However I have students from every " religion" most recognised , some not, they all have a central belief that their diety is the one. It is. Not for me. I'm on a knife edge with Susan's rules. Do what I tell my patients; believe in whatever helps you.
LoL
Cindy J - the godless :)
Quote from: Pica Pica on February 10, 2009, 10:01:54 AM
of course, the whole point of the koran to muslims is that is the literal, direct and total word of god to the letter, which is why they learn the language to read it in and set such store by remembering chunks. To say the koran shouldn't be taken literally is as against the idea od islam as to say there is no god.
According to the Qur'an itself, only some of it can be taken literally:
QuoteThe divine writ contains messages that are clear in and by themselves--and these are the essence of the divine writ--as well as others that are allegorical.
--Qur'an, surah 3, verse 7
In fact, only a small minority of verses in the Qur'an are considered to be of the first type. The rest are allegorical and subject to hermeneutics. Verse 3:7 goes on to say,
QuoteNone save God knows its final meaning.
So human interpretations are inevitably going to differ, and the text itself allows for this.
Hey Cindy J. No worries love. Everyone has a right to believe as they wish. There was a time when I was a stead fast atheist too and am today far to open minded to pick only one path.
There are many paths to enlightenment Perhaps they are all correct to those they touch.
Beni
Thanks Beni,
Religion is one of those topics I don't like to comment upon. Although I do because it seems so central to living. I don't regret, or reject any one's beliefs. I am just concerned that fundamentalist beliefs - of ANY religion or of atheisitic beliefs, concern me. These are people with whom you cannot have a discussion.But these are the people who threaten us, not us as TG but us as human beings.
But I understand peoples sensitivity and that this site is not for grandstanding on beliefs. I apologise if I have offened anyone but in general I find some beliefs offer me and people harm.
Lol
Cindy J
Post Merge: February 12, 2009, 02:55:44 AM
Dear Sugar and Spice
Thank you for the email. I did something weird to the message and cannot reply direct. I'm happy to discuss but I have to admit a totall non-theological background. To explain, I went to a "Christian" Bros school. A hell hole. I was the only person that was banned in taking O-levels in religion studies (a UK exam), My very loving Dad was a catholic priest (long explanation reqd). When I was found as Cindy at 13yrs old, he didn't go ballistic but wanted me to go to confession to recant my sin. I have no sympathy for religions or religious beliefs that reject members of the society if they wish to be of a belief.
I'm happt to communicate privately with interested people but not sure how to. Can a moderator let me know. Last time I made my email address open I had some very sick people contact me. They don't worry me just amaze me- I am really suprised that there are so many people who have very strange fantasies just because I'm TG!
Love to all
Cindy James