You went to the trouble of changing your name, moving away, and getting another job. You have been living stealth in your chosen gender for some time, and you've been successful at it. Now for some reason, you have decided to come out to someone.
How different is this process from coming out before transition? How is it the same? This is not a topic I have ever seen addressed anywhere. The assumption seems to be that the stealth person dissolves and is never heard from again. I can't believe in it as end of story fine. There has to at least be a sequel, where disclosures are necessary.
First of all if you are in stealth and all is well, why would you need to?
Is it because you are taken by someone? That would be totally a different subject.
I guess I would need more information. But then again I am not stealth.
Janet
I told that someone special before I married him.
Years ago, I told a few special friends. We've since lost track of each other. I do now have special friends that I'd like to tell. But somehow, I worry that we might lose track of each other. So, I just let it go. Why does it matter after all these years? I suppose that I still have this need to do what I can to help spread the word that it is OKAY to be like this and that we should all have equal rights.
Cindi
Like with doctors for instance? That is the only time I would "out" myself and even then, it would have to be for a medical condition for which I had no other option but to tell them about my personal, medical history. Otherwise, there is no need for anyone to know about my private life. Some of us have built careers, new relationships, friends, an entire new life in our true gender, and I don't intend to jeopardize any of that to be "out and proud", end of the story.
tink :icon_chick:
Once in 8 years have I disclosed my past to my now business partner who I had known for 4 years before we went into business together.
Why? because I wanted to ensure there where no secrets between us and to ensure she knew I trusted her.
We talked about it for about 30 minutes and she has never mentioned it again in nearly 4 years. As she said at the time, she only knows me now and respects me for the person I am.
Needless to say she has also become my best friend.
Buffy
...and before someone comes on here bitching about
how on earth we have the nerve to "hide the truth"...
Quote from: Caprica-6 on January 09, 2009, 12:00:47 AM
Often times someone will say, "How on earth can you go from one closet to another, letting people believe you are a woman and hiding the truth?" "What, how can you just bury (your) past as a man and live a lie?" Or how can you bury (your) past as a transsexual or transsexual woman or trans person or ->-bleeped-<- and live a lie? Someone recently said, "Some of us can pass as women but we let people know we are trans because we aren't ashamed of what we are." To me being a woman isn't an exercise in shame and it makes me wonder what such a person believes they are.
To me being a woman isn't an idea. To me being a woman isn't a way to "hide the truth". To me being a woman is who I am.
tink :icon_chick:
I came out to my husband when the relationship started getting serious. That was 6 years post and the topic never came up again.
I have shared some of my childhood with a couple of close friends and it is also a non-issue. I chose to share that information in order to be able to talk openly about childhood issues.
"Coming out" (not a good phrase!) is entirely different when someone has known you only as a woman for many years. A person's perceptions are formed very quickly and are very hard to change so telling a close friend has little effect on the friendship but it does give them some insight into things like why you are childless.
A rumour of my medical past went through my community some 5 years after I had moved to the area. Although it was the topic of gossip for awhile, the idea was eventually dismissed as incongruous and dropped.
This post is strange to me. I come out to two types of people-
Medical professionals (but not that time I broke my arm and went to the ER)
People i'm intending on sleeping with.
otherwise, why tell?
I would dearly love to be stealth, however I'm too well known in my city, all because I transitioned in the work place. I'm happy I did it just makes dating a little tricky at times.
Like those here if there is a chance that i will become intimate then I will certainly tell if they are from town. However the gentleman who has taken me under his wing is from another area and I will not reveal my past to him.
My medical history is well documented as my files can be accessed by any Doctor, medical professional, hospital etc. simply be logging into the medical Data Base and swiping my Medical ID Card (OHIP) for short. It's all there for them to see.
Steph
I have not found any reason to out myself to anyone since I moved to Vancouver 1 1/2 years ago, except for one Dr. I work in an all-female environment in a woman's shelter. I also attend two meetups per month, all female members.
I have one close female friend and one female friend who had been TS as close friend. I am part of the TS support group in downtown Vancouver but they do not know anything about who, where, what about me outside the meetings except as who I present.
I cannot think of any reason to tell anyone out there who I am. If discussions come up about my past such as children I will talk about my three children. If discussion comes up about my past I refer to myself in past events as female, when I was a little girl, when I was in my teens (as a girl.); when I was a young lady, when I had my first date, (female gender.) Ain't lying because I was never the other gender inside nor outside now, either.
Cindy
Quote from: Mister on February 15, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
This post is strange to me. I come out to two types of people-
Medical professionals (but not that time I broke my arm and went to the ER)
People i'm intending on sleeping with.
otherwise, why tell?
Alright. Let me tell you why I asked the question. And before I start, I want to say that Buffy came closest to the situation I have in mind. Granted, my situation is about SecondLife rather than real life, but the same thing could happen in real life.
In SecondLife, I manage a neighborhood bar. I've worked my way up from hostess to general manager. I am responsible for the staff members including security staff (bouncers). So there were two events that happened the same night. One was hiring a staff person who is openly transgendered and very nervous about being accepted. The other was having a stalker in drag crash Girls' Nite. At this point I get called on to make the policy decisions about gender exclusion and security at Girls' Nite. After being in stealth since first being hired, do I now come out? And how do I go about it?
This feels to me like a different quality of coming out than I had to do the first time ten years ago.
As far as the stalker breaking into Girls Night Out I think ya just should have got your bouncers bounce him out on his ear and be done with it. Why say anything about your personal life over that? Nor say anything to that transgendered person except maybe a little bit of supportive talk and a pat on the back and good luck hon. That's business.
Cindy
I wouldn't say anything. It's like any other demographic. Would you feel the need to tell this new hire that the two of you are of the same race or religion? Would you feel compelled to state that you live your life in a wheelchair because someone uses ableist terms?
Oh, waow, one of Susans Zombie Topics is alive again!
=K
So this is an online thing? Like the relationships that you have with all of these people are online in the Second Life thing?
When I transitioned I was totally stealth. I felt however that I wasn't being completely honest with the people I started to care about and actually found myself "coming out" that I wasn't always female. I cannot explain why exactly I would do it, but I would only tell people whom I was getting close to, and not just those I was dating but close girl friends too. Strange as it was, I actually felt better with those close to me knowing about my past and I never had a bad experience doing it. Mostly I just got shock and disbelief - they couldn't imagine me as having been a male.
I don't think you should come out to anyone and if you can go stealth, more power to you. I don't think it is anyones business except yours and of course your doctor will know but I do think that if you are really involved with someone that you care about and plan on making it a long term relationship, then I think you should have the talk with this person. We do live in a small world and your transition can be found out, whether legally or illegally.
Personally, I would not want to be stuck back into that closet again. I have found that I move around this country and other countries just fine. I don't have to disclose my background nor do I keep it a secret. I'm open but I don't tell either. If they find out, that is OK by me. Let them talk, in fact I will join them in the conversation. We can get drunk over this discussion, I don't care. By the time I go home, I'm still female and they have learned something from me. Of course I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw. I'm sure there are some college educated people in here who will just rip me a part.
First of all I would like to apologize if I appear rather grumpy about this topic but for the past few weeks I've had heated arguments about this subject with someone I love very much; hence, please do not take my comments personally, for they are not directed at anyone in particular.
Having said that, I would like to say that I am perfectly aware that we live in a world where things can be found out about people; however that hasn't been my experience and I've been "stealth" (I hate that term BTW) for many years. Also let's remember that people's situations are totally different. I mean there are those who were raised in a foreign country and therefore don't have elementary or highschool records here in the US; there are others who transitioned young and had a fresh start at life with a new identity; there are those who already had a unisex name prior to transitioning; there are others who started college after changing their name; there are those who established a credit line after a name change, so you see..the possibilities are endless and what I am trying to say here is that no situation/personal life is the same.
Also, I have never been fond of hypothetical situations...I mean I could go on vacation next month and die in plane crash.. yes it could happen..but will that "what if" situation prevent me from flying on a plane? I think not. Exactly the same thing with this "stealth" business. Just because the possibility of being "outed" exists, it doesn't mean that I am going to announce my past to everyone I know now. That's just ludicrous. If the moment ever comes when people find out about my history, I will deal with it THEN but for now I intend to keep on flying ;)
I just needed to say this, and now I return you to your regular programming!
tink :icon_chick:
Hi Tink, I do pray that everything is fine with you and your beloved. Hey I don't think about being outed or who thinks what about me, unless they confront me face to face about any suspicion as to who or what they think I am, I don't worry about it. I don't even pay attention anymore if anyone is staring at me for what might be the wrong reason.
I am an easy going, loving, caring person, always was even before, and still am. I enjoy a laugh just as much as anyone else, and I enjoy socialising, so I spend a lot of time with people in a day. So I just live as any other woman does that I know, and all treat me as such. I ain't going to worry about being outed until the time comes, then I will deal with it. Until then it's business as usual. Take care sister.
Tink if you wish you can PM me anytime.
Cindy
Quote from: Tink on February 16, 2009, 06:06:50 PM
Also, I have never been fond of hypothetical situations...I mean I could go on vacation next month and die in plane crash.. yes it could happen..but will that "what if" situation prevent me from flying on a plane? I think not. Exactly the same thing with this "stealth" business. Just because the possibility of being "outed" exists, it doesn't mean that I am going to announce my past to everyone I know now. That's just ludicrous. If the moment ever comes when people find out about my history, I will deal with it THEN but for now I intend to keep on flying ;)
I just needed to say this, and now I return you to your regular programming!
tink :icon_chick:
I abide by a similar code, Tink. Do not disclose unless absolutely necessary.
The only folks who know about me and where I am, is family, I did all I could to accept me as who I am, they had seven years to do so, to no avail. I guess they think I am a monster in their closet they don't want anyone to know about. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2FMonsterInCloset.jpg&hash=b143200f7633787e70af0abdfd38654e5111c388) But how wrong are they, I am only a little mouse.(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2Fmouse4.jpg&hash=c4c1b2b445b72d94d47fb2720adde1a148dc7338) who wants to grow up to be a lady. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2FLady.jpg&hash=9cb38716c36702bbd9adbcc983ffe72a84a233d3)
Cindy
Quote from: Tink on February 15, 2009, 08:26:38 PM
Like with doctors for instance? That is the only time I would "out" myself and even then, it would have to be for a medical condition for which I had no other option but to tell them about my personal, medical history. Otherwise, there is no need for anyone to know about my private life. Some of us have built careers, new relationships, friends, an entire new life in our true gender, and I don't intend to jeopardize any of that to be "out and proud", end of the story.
tink :icon_chick:
Hi!
I've got to agree with Tink all the way on this one. Once I fully transition, I plan to live the way Tink does as described above in her quote. To me, anyway, being TS is not a cause, it's just a condition you're born with. Once you correct it, it's corrected. Live your life in peace. Now, if you happen upon someone who is also TS and wants your insight and your help, then, certainly, why not help them out?
Just my two-cents' worth. Do what you want regarding this matter.
Hugs!
Anybody want a "Trans and Proud" button? Someone handed it to me at DC Trans Pride last year, but I've never worn it.
To Tink and cindybc:
Totally agree with you, gals! LOVE your outlooks and attitudes! Personally, I have not physically transitioned yet, but am starting the process. I will very much keep your outlooks and attitudes in mind throughout the process.
Hugs!
Quote from: Tink on February 15, 2009, 08:26:38 PM
Like with doctors for instance? That is the only time I would "out" myself and even then, it would have to be for a medical condition for which I had no other option but to tell them about my personal, medical history. Otherwise, there is no need for anyone to know about my private life. Some of us have built careers, new relationships, friends, an entire new life in our true gender, and I don't intend to jeopardize any of that to be "out and proud", end of the story.
tink :icon_chick:
I have to sort of question a bit of this... on the relationship front itself. Because it seems (to me at least) difficult to build a deep and genuine relationship with someone - platonic or romantic - without letting them into your private life to some degree. The casual relationships I absolutely agree with; I see no need to disclose personal information to someone you just chat with at work, or other such general aquaintances you might have. It's the close friends and long-term lovers I'd have trouble keeping something like this from myself.
Not to say that I disagree with your choice. It's your life to live, your privacy to protect or share. But it's not one I could make even if I had the option, and it seems every time this topic comes up in 'trans-spaces' I get the impression from the "non-disclosure" side that my refusal to make that choice is contemptible.
That bothers me.
I CHOOSE not to be stealth. I don't just tell every redneck I meet on the street. That would be pretty stupid, but I'm not going to lie to people that are close or become close to me either. Do they have a "right" to know? Maybe, maybe not. A prospective long term boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife... yeah, they need to be told. You can't play with peoples emotions, no matter what your "condition" is or was. This is a major factor on someones decision to be with you or not. What if you don't tell them and they find out somehow later in life? They would feel betrayed and hurt.
I don't tell anything to anybody regular people, close friends or potential mates. Nobody. Peeps don't know & I don't plan to tell ever. After all it's a
choice we all make about
our lives, innit? So I live it how I want it & tell my history to whom I want. It's
my life to live after all right? If something goes wrong along the way & peeps get hurt, it's
my problem to deal with it. Why should other peeps care about what I choose for my self or about the people involved in
my life. That's not people's problem but my own.
I kinda of get the same thing with a little modification & that bothers me too.
Quote from: kaosgirl on March 07, 2009, 12:17:42 AM
It seems every time this topic comes up in 'trans-spaces' I get the impression from the "non-disclosure" "disclosure" side that my refusal to make that choice is contemptible.
That bothers me.
Quote from: Valentina on March 07, 2009, 01:06:20 AM
I don't tell anything to anybody regular people, close friends or potential mates. Nobody. Peeps don't know & I don't plan to tell ever. After all it's a choice we all make about our lives, innit? So I live it how I want it & tell my history to whom I want. It's my life to live after all right? If something goes wrong along the way & peeps get hurt, it's my problem to deal with it. Why should other peeps care about what I choose for my self or about the people involved in my life. That's not people's problem but my own.
I kinda of get the same thing with a little modification & that bothers me too.
No but you make it a problem of other people when you choose to have a close relationship with them.. What if they want something you are unable to give them in life... A child perhaps?
I don't think everyone needs to be the front line on the war for our equality, but it couldn't hurt. I just think life partners should know. To not tell them is rather selfish and could potentially be harmful to them and to yourself.
Why must there always be battle lines drawn in discussions such as this? :-\
There are no 'sides', there are just people, living their lives the best way they know how. This isn't a war... or it shouldn't be.
A person's choices should be respected, even if disagreed with. We're all adults here, with free will and the ability to decide for ourselves what's best for us. We live with the consequences of our actions, whatever they may be. And it's for none but the individual to decide what's best for them.
All this fighting, division and thinly veiled insults... it doesn't solve anything. You can't change someone's view through hostility. All that does is make people miserable. :(
QuoteTo not tell them is rather selfish and could potentially be harmful to them and to yourself.
That's your opinion but that's
my problem to deal with after all not anybody else's.
Quote from: Valentina on March 07, 2009, 01:26:03 AM
That's your opinion but that's my problem to deal with after all not anybody else's.
Good luck.. Wish you the best. Hope all goes well for you and the poor person you end up getting married to. Hopefully for your sake he or she will be understanding. Cause you won't be able to hid it forever from them.
Quote from: Ashley315 on March 07, 2009, 01:30:58 AM
Good luck.. Wish you the best. Hope all goes well for you and the poor person you end up getting married to. Hopefully for your sake he or she will be understanding. Cause you won't be able to hid it forever from them.
Thank you & you wish. Have a nice life too.
Each of us deals with this issue in our own way, just as we have with Transition. There is no right or wrong, period.
Quote from: Valentina on March 07, 2009, 01:33:28 AM
Thank you & you wish. Have a nice life too.
I have a great life. Thanks. ;D
Quote from: Ashley315 on March 07, 2009, 01:40:51 AM
I have a great life. Thanks. ;D
Really? you could have fooled me because going by your posts, it kinda gives the impression you're unhappy & angry with it or how the way you look or how the way the world see you maybe. Dunno. Don't mean to sound harsh but that's the impression I've got. But that's good you've got a good life.
I would suggest that we just cool down a little. No one is going to change anyones mind here. Just except it and move on. please.
Quote from: Valentina on March 07, 2009, 01:43:47 AM
Really? you could have fooled me because going by your posts, it kinda gives the impression you're unhappy & angry with it or how the way you look or how the way the world see you maybe. Dunno. Don't mean to sound harsh but that's the impression I've got. But that's good you've got a good life.
Hmn.. dunno how you would get that from my post..
You seem to be a little angered over this. Want a cookie?
Hi sis Jannet :icon_wave:
I quite agree with Janet and Leiandra. I really can't understand the hostility either. All that accomplishes is either getting a thread locked or someone getting banned or both.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and interpretation for any given subject mater and it is normal human nature for each to have a different interpretation or conception of that very same topic, "No, I tell ya, the dress was red!" "No, your wrong, it was slacks and they were blue!" We can learn more just keeping what resonates with us and leaving what doesn't. Even the stuff that doesn't resonate you would be surprised how it could make sense when someone else comes along with another piece to add to the puzzle.
Anyway this my second take on this topic. I don't even remember what I wrote before except that it was in response to Tinks.
Briefly, I began transition in a small town and surprisingly all went well, I believe I owe that to the type of personality I have, I am a bit of a mousy person and kind of timid for the most part, always have been. But even being timid didn't mean that I don't love being around people, and I love humor. I'm a people person and I make friends easily. After two years I was well accepted by the town folks and no one gave me a hard time.
But here is the clincher, even after living there for 7 years and all treated me well, I knew that all knew my past history. So when the opportunity came for me to move, I moved to the opposite side of the contenent. Not a soul knows me here on the west coast except as the person I present, the woman that I am. I still have the same personality as the one who left the East coast behind.
I have just as many fiends now as I did in that other town and not a soul knows my past history and it stays that way. I have my beloved and what else could anyone want out of life, Well, maybe win the lottery. ;D
Wanting and having the need to live my life as who I have transitioned to be, as a woman, I believe this is why most of us go (stealth) to start with. The need to leave our trans history behind us because we are no longer trans. Just women with a trans history that is not anybody's business, anymore then if you were born with three legs and an extra head. Do we not pay our dues enough to deserve that?
Like leaving family and friends behind, leaving everything you were ever familiar with and loved behind to start a new life somewhere else hoping to never again run into anyone we know. Starting again among a city full of strangers, that is enough to give you the willies.
So we then proceed to do what comes naturally to to us, just like any other GG. We date males, in some cases females. We fall in love and get in to a partnership or get married, whatever the case may be again. And why not? That is what we are, women, psychologically and physically, same likes and dislikes, needing a male, again in some cases, female partner.
In the case of the woman who marries a man, normal thing for a woman to do isn't it? but she neglects to tell him about the three legs and the extra head she was born with, heck that would probably go over better then telling them you have a history of transsexaulity.
Once you have established your new life with your new marriage partner, you get on our knees and fervently pray no one from the past comes along to "out you". Then when someone does, all hell breaks loos and sometimes at the cost of someones life.
My take on this is that the smartest thing to do is I would tell my future partner, and if he wishes to continue the relationship, then at least rest be assured you know you have a good solid relationship.
Anybody else outside of your spouse is yours and his choice to make if anyone else outside the house needs to know. My choice is the same as my beloved has chosen, No one needs to know except our Dr.
Cindy
Yay
some of the best and helpful threads always end up turning into something like this one
sorry but why dont you continue it over in pm or even better just leave each other alone
Hey!!! Pin a rose on the ladies lapel will ya. ;D
Cindy
eh, dang! last thing i need is someone telling me how to live my life. how very ambitious of them! ::) let's see, hubby knows (he's my husband legally btw) because we've known each other since the earth was flat but i'm stealth to the rest of the world. why? because i CAN. only a person who CAN can be stealth. get it? got it? good!
Sure, everyone can do whatever they want. I didn't mean to start a war over this topic, though I should have known better.
Quote from: Ashley315 on March 07, 2009, 10:27:54 AM
Sure, everyone can do whatever they want. I didn't mean to start a war over this topic, though I should have known better.
Totally agree, the one part of this site I can't stand is all this bitching over these issues.
All this holier than thou sh*t is really not needed especially among adults. People get hurt by such attitudes and most of us are coming here with enough hurt in our lives already.
Time to grow up and show a little tolerance and acceptance of others, without tolerance we're totally f****d, end of.
Jesus, this stuff p*sses me off.
I think it's dishonest. Telling someone or not is only a problem when there could potentially be a negative outcome from them finding out later on. That is just my opinion. At the very least, I think you should be up front with a person that you can never have children. That is something that is very important to many people.
I live stealth by choice. I don't identify as trans, I'm a woman born with a birth condition that's already been corrected. My fiance & family know about my corrective surgery, nobody else does.
It comes down to what every issue comes down to:
How do you feel about it from an ethical standpoint. Do you feel any need to disclose your identity to people you're relatively close to? Do you feel like it's dishonest not to? Are you willing to close off part of your past? Are you aware and willing to deal with any possible consequences of being 'outed'? Will you resent being coerced into going stealth if it's against your will?
I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer to any of these questions. You simply have to determine how YOU (nobody else) feel about them and make a decision based on those feelings.
don't think we are talking about not being out to the general public. Who wouldn't be? It's not that difficult, as the majority of the public eye barely takes more than a glance or two at anyone else and most people just take things for general face value without much questioning.
What concerns me is people that try to hide it from loved ones or spouses. To each their own, but in my opinion that is a little dangerous. What happens if they find out 10 years down the road for whatever reason? It can and has happened before. What if they freak out and harm you or themselves over it? Some people would feel very betrayed over finding something like this out after being together for several years. Can you blame them? I just feel like if you really love someone, you would be totally honest with them, and if they really love you, they will be understanding. That is of course my opinion and I'm sure there are some that have a different opinion.
Are we all just women/men (whatever the case may be) that happen to be born with a specific birth defect? Of course, but that is not the way the general public views it, and right or wrong, we do live in a world of sociological ideals and beliefs about labeling people.
The amazing thing about stealth and discussing stealth online...it's kind of like playing poker over the phone with a bunch of people you don't know.
Person 1: "Ok, lay your cards down, what do you have?"
Person 2: "Pair of Kings, 8 high"
Person 3: "Full house, Kings and Ace's"
Person 4: "I have four Queens"
Who knows what they all have? Does it even matter? Poker is best enjoyed for the company and the point of it wasn't really playing online with a bunch of people you don't know where you just assume what they say is correct. Appearances from pictures, discussions of stealth, IS, and anything else that transpeople tend to use a pseudo-ranking method online are just as accurate as playing poker on the phone with people you don't know.
If someone says the are stealth, it might mean different things to different people. To some it means "no one says anything to me, therefore no one knows so I'm stealth." To others it might mean "I don't tell anyone therefore I am stealth." Then you have "I move through my life not being apparently known by others and I don't tell" so that's stealth. We bring all these different backgrounds and personalities to these forums. Many people get defensive about their positions on things.
In the end, it's the internet. It's online. What happens to people in public, what people think of them as they move through life, none of us will know. You could have the most passable people TORTURING themselves over appearance and perceived inability to not be read and you could have a completely unpassable transperson claiming stealth. In the end, what's it matter? We're here together trying to help each other through some pretty tough times. Those that have been through some of the same trials and tribulations are there to lend a hand to others. Those who are new watch and observe and wonder where their life will be in a few months or years.
I embrace you all as my sisters and brothers. I'm here for any of you if you ever need to talk. I don't care what you look like. I don't care if you think you are stealth or not. I don't care because I DON'T KNOW. It's what YOU tell me based on your interaction in society. You might be wrong. Is it important to what we talk about, probably not. I love people for being who they are, whether they can be stealth or not doesn't matter to me. Show me an open heart, show me compassion in the way you deal with others and I'll give and give to you until I can't give anymore. That's just me, that's how I am :) Meghan
Lovely post, Meghan. Kudos.
Lia
Oh this again!
What I have never understood is why we all have to try to get people on our side with this. We are what we are. Why can't that be good enough? Why can't we accept the fact that some people really need to be stealth, and some need to be out and proud? I suspect a bunch of people fall in between somewhere. So why do we seem to think that ours is the only right way to do this? My own suspicion, which I have voiced before, is that many of us are basically insecure in who we are. Therefore, we want others to do what we do to validate us.
We need people out there helping change the world. I am thankful that they are working hard. That life, however, is not for everyone, at least not in this day and time. We have a lot of hurdles to cross before we will cease to see any repercussions from being open. Some are better at facing those challenges than others. Some are great at doing the public work. Some have professions that makes being "out" impossible because of the bias that is in place.
There are zillions of life possibilities out there that go into each of our decisions. No two of us are alike. There is not a textbook. There is no proper way to be trans. `There is no letter from above directing each of us. Rather, the answer is in each of our hearts. If we are true to that, how dare anyone judge the choice we have made.
I have seen people on here that claim passability and I just cringe. But whatever floats their boat. So long as they are happy, it is fine with me. I have seen others who live in stealth and are just as feminine or masculine as they should be in their target gender. They open up online and get trashed because no one believes them. That is so counterproductive. The message we seem to be sending is that it is OK to be successful but only to a point. Why would we ever want to portray that kind of nonsense?
When I see someone living their dream of being their gender and being treated no differently because because of the configuration of their flesh, it makes me so very happy for them. I certainly don't go around asking girls: natal or neo? I doubt you do either. When I see others who are trying to change the world by being very public, I am so very thankful for what they are doing for us. We need them to succeed and we need to support them however we can. To those of us who are in that gray area trying to find the best course, I simply lend my support and open my arms. There is no easy way. There is no best way. There is no one right way.
Be who you are. Be it to the best of your ability, Fulfill your dreams. And please support those whose dreams are not identical to your own.
Peace, all!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
If you can and want to be out and proud and doing what you can, then maybe you should. For those than can't there should be no shame in it. Some can, some can't, we all have our place.
It's a big issue, and each person needs to make that choice for themselves. I am thankful for those who can.
Ok I just have to reply here.
Why would a person want to draw unwanted attention to themselves. If you are trying to live your life as normal as you can why throw any more information out there than needed for fuel. I always thought the main reason for transitioning was to blend into society and live the life you were entitled to.
Now if you have another adjenda and want go public with you life that is ok too, just don't drag the rest of us on the band wagon.
I do not call what I am doing "Stealth". My business is my business, and I am living my life as normal as one can.
This is just my opinion and I hope I have not offended anyone.
Deb
New topic and poll-- Should post-ops disclose? (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,57669.0.html)
QuoteI Now if you have another adjenda and want go public with you life that is ok too, just don't drag the rest of us on the band wagon.
I quite agree with Deb. I am a peer support worker at a local TS support group once a week and this is the only place who know my background. I am also facilitator for two *none trans related* meetup groups and work at a woman's shelter and they know me only as who I present, *Cindy* No more no less, if that stealth, then be it.
I don't give it much thought nor do I loose any sleep over it. I get up in the morning and just go out and do what I need to do. I could stay home and knit sweaters if I wanted to, I am retired, but I enjoy being around people and working with people. At least as Cindy I have a life.
Cindy
There has to be a reeeeely good reason for me to out myself to anyone anymore, sometimes even medically. If they're not going to be looking between my naked legs carefully, they have no need to know.
Here's an example.........last week we gave blood. A few days later, a Red Cross person called, and told Marcy he needed to "correct the gender on my records". I guess someone finally looked at some older records, and saw the "M".
He said, "they have Michael Beverly listed as female, and....."
"That's right", Marcy said. Female. She uses her middle name, as it is on her donor card.
"And you are..."
"We live together. We both came in to donate."
"Oh"
So....why in the world should the Red Cross need to know my past?
They don't.
I'm me, a woman, donating my blood.
Bev
I thought we couldn't donate blood due to HRT?
Quote from: Ashley315 on March 20, 2009, 03:09:10 PM
I thought we couldn't donate blood due to HRT?
They take my blood as often as they can.
They take other women's estrogen-laced blood, and they never asked me if I were on HRT
Hmn... learn something new every day I guess. :)
There is nothing on 3 of the biggest blood bank websites of the US regarding hormones, or trans.
Gay men are banned by some, some overseas travel, and various other things, but I never saw hormones or TG listed anywhere.
I understand why people are stealth.
I couldn't be though. I would always be thinking about whether people knew or didn't know. The easiest position for me is just not to care. If people know, then it's fine. If they don't, I'm sure after getting to know more more, they will. My biggest anxiety is when people don't know, because they'll form these emotional bonds with me, and then it's like so awkward and annoying to disclose it to them. So even online I'm as upfront as I can be about being trans.
Because honestly, if you can't look at me and see all-girl, even after knowing my gender history, then you're not someone I need hovering around my life. So in some ways the trans issue is a great litmus test for weeding out the boring and dumb.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,57669.msg362886.html#new (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,57669.msg362886.html#new)
Maybe a person should just remain in the stealth mode. If the subject comes up and being truthfull feels better then come out.
Why do you have to put the lable on living a normal life as "being stealth"? I just don't understand. In my everyday life I do not even give it a second thought about being a "Transsexual" I just consider myself as a woman and go about things. Why would you have a need to disclose your personal life to just anyone.
I can only answer for myself, and make observations for myself. I am and always have been a girl. If I thought for one minuit that I was not, I might want to go into a "stealth mode". If you are not sure of yourself you will always be looking over your shoulder. Look straight ahead, never look back, and do what you were destine to do.
I feel one owes it to themselves to live a worry-free life if at all possible. To me this means don't complicate it with personal information about ourselves that is no business of others.
You have to ask yourself if you want to be a woman or a man. I thought that was the goal!!I did not think anyone wanted to be in another catagory..If I am wrong I am sorry. Everyone has the right to be what they want.
For me I am what I am, and I can tell you I am a woman in every way possible except for being able to bear children. There are plenty of women who have the same problem. I can live with that defect.
Deb
I don't mean to say that I am "stealth", but a woman. Yes, I have a history that is different from most other women, but I've really been a woman all my life.
If someone flat-out asks me, I would have to say, "why do you ask?", and if pressed, I would answer. I would tell them that I am a woman, I am a father and a grandmother, that I am a lesbian, that I enjoy all the things in life other people enjoy, but my friends don't ask me if I'm "trans".
Bev
Quote from: debisl on March 21, 2009, 07:30:43 AMYou have to ask yourself if you want to be a woman or a man. I thought that was the goal!!I did not think anyone wanted to be in another catagory..
I feel very much the same way about myself. I'm just a woman, no more, no less. But in fact there are many individuals whose primary identity is transgender. Or if it's man/woman, it's phrased as "transgender man" / "transgender woman." Which to me seems to place one in a subcategory separate from others of one's gender. It draws a line of differentiation between one and the gender as a whole. Personally, I find that unacceptable.
So I am just a woman, and I leave the "transgender" part out of it entirely. Transsexual is my medical history, not my identity. I don't identify with having had my gall bladder removed either. And it's actually no one else's business that I did (unless a gastroenterologist is treating me and has a need-to-know).
QuoteIf I am wrong I am sorry. Everyone has the right to be what they want.
They do, so I don't judge anyone for being who they need to be. It's very important that we understand one another's different views of self and accept everyone for who they know themselves to be. So I resent it any time someone tells me I can never "really" be a woman. The hell I'm not.
Quote from: ell on March 21, 2009, 12:50:53 PMso now the word "stealth" is an inappropriate term?
The question is whether stealth is even possible in today's world any more, in a practical sense. Stealth was a concept left over from the 1960s, when a person really could make a clean break with the past -- a time before every minute detail about a person's life was stored on a database with an electronic trail that's accessible to anyone who has enough money to pry into your past. I'm afraid stealth has become as obsolete as computer punch cards.
Quote from: debisl on March 21, 2009, 07:30:43 AM
Why do you have to put the lable on living a normal life as "being stealth"? I just don't understand. In my everyday life I do not even give it a second thought about being a "Transsexual" I just consider myself as a woman and go about things. Why would you have a need to disclose your personal life to just anyone.
I can only answer for myself, and make observations for myself. I am and always have been a girl. If I thought for one minuit that I was not, I might want to go into a "stealth mode". If you are not sure of yourself you will always be looking over your shoulder. Look straight ahead, never look back, and do what you were destine to do.
I feel one owes it to themselves to live a worry-free life if at all possible. To me this means don't complicate it with personal information about ourselves that is no business of others.
You have to ask yourself if you want to be a woman or a man. I thought that was the goal!!I did not think anyone wanted to be in another catagory..If I am wrong I am sorry. Everyone has the right to be what they want.
For me I am what I am, and I can tell you I am a woman in every way possible except for being able to bear children. There are plenty of women who have the same problem. I can live with that defect.
Deb
This works for me. The only reason I will feel the need to disclose is to a potential significant other, where it matters in the bedroom, and when I go get passports and have to prove I'm my children's mother. That's it.
Trans isn't my identity; I'm a straight male and live as such.
Jay
I've always viewed the "trans" part of me as just that, a minor part of me. It is only one minor detail about the woman I am. It does not define who I am much like my heritage doesn't define who I am. I don't own a casino because I happen to be of Native American decent so why should I view the trans part of me any differently? It isn't something I'm ashamed of nor should it be. I think to many people tend to take this "trans" word and run with it. They think that it labels them to be a certain way or do a certain thing rather than just viewing it as a minor thing that makes up the grand total of the woman or man that you truly are.
I don't understand why people make such a huge deal over something so trivial and gender anyway.
I'm with Deb and Beverly. "Stealth" and "passing" are badly defined terms. To me passing is when you are trying to impersonate (pass as) something you are not and stealth implies that you are hiding something about yourself. If you are a woman (or a man) as you say you are, what are you hiding then? Unless you believe you are something else other than woman or man, then I could see why you call yourself "stealth". There's no such a thing as "stealth" after transition/SRS but there's such a thing as a woman's life (or a man's) & getting your butt out there in the REAL world (24/7, 365 days a year/every second/minute/hour).
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on March 21, 2009, 05:48:08 PM
...... There's no such a thing as "stealth" after transition/SRS but there's such a thing as a woman's life (or a man's) & getting your butt out there in the REAL world (24/7, 365 days a year/every second/minute/hour).
tink :icon_chick:
:icon_yes:
Beverly
Quote from: Tink on March 21, 2009, 05:48:08 PM
I'm with Deb and Beverly. "Stealth" and "passing" are badly defined terms. To me passing is when you are trying to impersonate (pass as) something you are not and stealth implies that you are hiding something about yourself. If you are a woman (or a man) as you say you are, what are you hiding then? Unless you believe you are something else other than woman or man, then I could see why you call yourself "stealth". There's no such a thing as "stealth" after transition/SRS but there's such a thing as a woman's life (or a man's) & getting your butt out there in the REAL world (24/7, 365 days a year/every second/minute/hour).
tink :icon_chick:
I approve of this message. ;D ;D
Very good point Tink.
Tink, if we should ever cross paths, I owe you a big hug. Wing Walker too :D
Cindy
I feel one owes it to themselves to live a worry-free life if at all possible. To me this means don't complicate it with personal information about ourselves that is no business of others.
I'm gonna have to disagree on this, the SIMPLE life, the worry free life, has but one rule, if someone asks a direct question you give them the honest answer as you know it. The rest is just commentary to get other people off of having lied.
Quote from: Hypatia on March 21, 2009, 12:51:58 PM
I'm just a woman, no more, no less. But in fact there are many individuals whose primary identity is transgender. Or if it's man/woman, it's phrased as "transgender man" / "transgender woman." Which to me seems to place one in a subcategory separate from others of one's gender.
Yup you're right. You know the secret. There are also many individuals that aren't even women but think they've got insight into women's lives. This is the same thing as claiming that wearing the costume of a squirrel once in a whilst gives some kind of real knowledge into what being a squirrel is like. They dont have to be afraid of the coyotes, the snakes, don't even have to build dreys or live in a den, nope the costume's more then enough to give them instant wisdom.
Quote from: Pia on March 22, 2009, 10:14:08 PM
Yup you're right. You know the secret. There are also many individuals that aren't even women but think they've got insight into women's lives. This is the same thing as claiming that wearing the costume of a squirrel once in a whilst gives some kind of real knowledge into what being a squirrel is like. They dont have to be afraid of the coyotes, the snakes, don't even have to build dreys or live in a den, nope the costume's more then enough to give them instant wisdom.
Leave me alone about my squirrel costume already!!!!! Jesus.. so what if I like to run around in trees jumping from limb to limb and collecting acorns once every few weeks... I never claimed to be a real squirrel!!!! I just like to pretend every once in awhile!!! Is that so wrong? It lets me get out a lot of stress that builds up over time. I'm not hurting anyone except for maybe the poor trees that have to support the weight of my fat butt, but they don't ever complain. God I love trees. They are so noble and strong and never judgmental or self righteous. You never see the cedar tree bashing or name calling the pecan tree for having nuts. You never see the oak tree making fun or trying to separate itself from the willow tree because the willow tree has an extra lower limb. They all seem to accept each other and grow together as nothing more than trees regardless of their differences.
Remember kids.. only you can prevent forest fires.
Quote from: Pia on March 22, 2009, 10:14:08 PM
Yup you're right. You know the secret. There are also many individuals that aren't even women but think they've got insight into women's lives. This is the same thing as claiming that wearing the costume of a squirrel once in a whilst gives some kind of real knowledge into what being a squirrel is like. They dont have to be afraid of the coyotes, the snakes, don't even have to build dreys or live in a den, nope the costume's more then enough to give them instant wisdom.
Of course then there's the people who have been running around in a squirrel costume, and decide to get their teeth surgically made into squirrel teeth, just so they can turn around and tell all the other people in squirrel costumes that they are not squirrels, and only their opinion matters, because of the teeth. Interestingly, they all taste the same to coyotes.
Ok, that's it.. I'm switching to a badger costume......
Squirrels should wear wolf costumes and spray themselves and their ranges liberally with wolf scent if they are to escape the coyotes. Coyotes make themselves scarce when wolves are numerous.
Nichole
BTW, before anyone at all decides to get offended that's the naturalistic literal truth. It wasn't an allegory about something else.
N~
Quote from: Nichole on March 23, 2009, 05:06:21 PM
BTW, before anyone at all decides to get offended that's the naturalistic literal truth. It wasn't an allegory about something else.
N~
Just to clarify people. Do NOT have your dog pee on you. It won't help you live more stealthily. Let there be no confusion!
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on March 23, 2009, 05:33:45 PM
Just to clarify people. Do NOT have your dog pee on you. It won't help you live more stealthily. Let there be no confusion!
Yeah but it can't hurt so.....
Living stealth, I just live. I don't think of myself as better then anyone else, just different conceptions and perceptions of how I see others around me. No different then the other person looking at me because of some unusual or unique features and characteristics about me.
So we all have our own unique features and characteristics, so what? The only thing I found that needed some tuning up was some of my perceptions and definitely some of my attitude. Not that I was ever an aggressive or vociforous person, but some of my attitude and how I perceived things need a refinement in order to be harmonised with how I felt inside.
There are even many GG's that are androgynous in appearance. Some with lousy attitudes that I certainly knew was not for me to emulate. I had an image of who I was inside, and it was this image that formed the basis for my present self.
I have many friends and make friends easily, much more easily then I did before. I have been working with people, men and women for the past twenty two years and 9 of those years as who I am now. No one has ever questioned my authenticity. I don't wear squirrels, wolves, coyotes, sheep's, mountain goats, or jack asses clothes.
I just wear my usual little house mouse clothes that I have always worn.
Cindy
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on March 23, 2009, 04:27:33 PM
Of course then there's the people who have been running around in a squirrel costume, and decide to get their teeth surgically made into squirrel teeth, just so they can turn around and tell all the other people in squirrel costumes that they are not squirrels, and only their opinion matters, because of the teeth. Interestingly, they all taste the same to coyotes.
Wasn't talking about pre-op or non-op gals. I havent forgotten I was pre-op at one time. I was talking about cross dressers, transvestites, drag queens, men in dresses that think they've got an insight into women's lives.
Quote from: Pia on April 11, 2009, 09:49:30 AM
Wasn't talking about pre-op or non-op gals. I havent forgotten I was pre-op at one time. I was talking about cross dressers, transvestites, drag queens, men in dresses that think they've got an insight into women's lives.
I don't think any of the above mentioned think they are women in any way. Maybe the have a little more insight into women's lives. At least they know how freaking uncomfortable the clothing can be. There are men out there who do none of that and they still think they have insight into women's lives. Maybe they do to some degree, that is not something we can decide but they are, by far, not women.
Do they truly have insight into the heart and mind of a woman? And all of the sensitivities of the neural pathways connecting to the complex mechanism of her mind and how she feels and perceives the environment of her own perceptions of life and the people involved in it?
Cindy