my height. i'm not even as tall as the average woman, let alone the average male. i feel like if i transitioned no one would take me seriously. granted, there are not-so-tall genetic guys, but that doesn't put me much at ease.
in my mind, i'd rather be dead than have to present as female.
however, i'm just... well, small. i've seen FTM's at 5'6" complain about being short, and i'm like geez, try being barely five feet.
i'm still fairly young, but it has been verified that i will grow no more, much to my absolute dismay.
i've heard T helps height in some cases, if you start at a younger age?
opinions? thoughts? anything?
thank you. :)
depends if the bones are already closed.
anyway, after T, you'll pass and just be seen as a short man.
I don't know what to tell you about your height. I've never been small so I don't feel I can speak to your situation, but there are TONS of FTMs that are downright tiny and do pass. My personal opinion is that they are more detectable, more suspect, or at least more inclined to attract attention.
People might just think you're a really young boy for quite a while... could still pass though!
Height is a problem, I'm about 5" 4' I think, pretty short... but I know guys that height, it happens.
go check out jacob on youtube. idr his username... possibly jacoblotcky, but hes tiny too and passes just fine. :)
Quote from: Josh on February 16, 2009, 06:25:30 PM
go check out jacob on youtube. idr his username... possibly jacoblotcky, but hes tiny too and passes just fine. :)
There's a huge difference between passing while solo in front of a webcam and passing in the company of men. If a group of average sized men stood around Jacob, it'd be downright silly.
thank you all. :)
and josh, i just went and looked him up.
so i guess i'm not completely hopeless now, thank you.
but mister does have a valid point. :-\
i guess just being short sucks, nothing that can be done, haha.
so men with dwarfism arent real men when compared to average sized men?
I'm short too, but I'd rather be an "imperfect" man than a "perfect" woman
Quote from: Josh on February 16, 2009, 07:12:57 PM
so men with dwarfism arent real men when compared to average sized men?
really? did i say anything about anyone being real or not? no, i didn't.
this photo is an exaggerated view of what i'm talking about.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_3mfWoJ0KM9Y%2FR_9XIRj2Y0I%2FAAAAAAAAGTo%2F64qdMmi8smE%2FManute%2BBol%2Bn%2BMuggsy%2BBogues.jpg&hash=b0b725a8d01b1c25cb2e796725a392e1955081be)
Quote from: Mister on February 16, 2009, 07:22:43 PM
really? did i say anything about anyone being real or not? no, i didn't.
this photo is an exaggerated view of what i'm talking about.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_3mfWoJ0KM9Y%2FR_9XIRj2Y0I%2FAAAAAAAAGTo%2F64qdMmi8smE%2FManute%2BBol%2Bn%2BMuggsy%2BBogues.jpg&hash=b0b725a8d01b1c25cb2e796725a392e1955081be)
sure it looks amusing, but you wouldn't look at the short guy and think "that must be a woman"
Quote from: Mister on February 16, 2009, 06:27:44 PM
If a group of average sized men stood around Jacob, it'd be downright silly.
When I think of how I must look amongst them, I (if I let myself) feel downright silly every time I'm in the company of average-sized men. But when I remember how they looked at me when I was fully female-looking, I feel downright disgusted. Definitely a case of 'pick yer poison.'
Quotesure it looks amusing, but you wouldn't look at the short guy and think "that must be a woman"
'cause i said that too, right? oh, wait... no again.
After you take testosterone for a while, there'll be no question to the world at large that you're a man. However short you may be, you'll still be looked at as a guy - you'll be in the boys' club, so to speak. I don't think this'll cause any guys worth being friends with to reject you.
If you don't mind me asking, are you gay, straight, or bi? The shortness might actually help your case if you like guys - a significant subset of the gay population is totally into small, boyish guys.
I go to school with a dude who is probably about 5'1" and he is 22. All through high school he played soccer and was homecoming King and all that stuff. So i really don't think anyone looked at him any differently. I liked what Jeatyn said,
Quote from: Jeatyn on February 16, 2009, 07:17:35 PM
I'm short too, but I'd rather be an "imperfect" man than a "perfect" woman
Just think everything through man. If you are able to get with a gender therapist soon, it could be extremely helpful to you. Good luck with everything
Jet
So what exactly is your point mister? other than short guys look stupid =/
the sarcasm isn't helping
jesus, i never said that short guys look stupid, either.
My point is that passing is subjective. One may pass at home on one's couch, but not at all when compared of the same sex. Height and stature in general doesn't help. Small hands, small feet, short, thin limbs. Sorry, but when/if people question you that's what they look for.
In one of those Ultimate Survival Guide to Life books, there's a whole list of things to look for to ascertain the gender of your date. Comical, but accurate.
On a personal note, if I didn't feel I could pass well and assimilate into the male population, I wouldn't have transitioned.
Quote from: Mister on February 16, 2009, 08:29:40 PM
jesus, i never said that short guys look stupid, either.
My point is that passing is subjective. One may pass at home on one's couch, but not at all when compared of the same sex. Height and stature in general doesn't help. Small hands, small feet, short, thin limbs. Sorry, but when/if people question you that's what they look for.
In one of those Ultimate Survival Guide to Life books, there's a whole list of things to look for to ascertain the gender of your date. Comical, but accurate.
On a personal note, if I didn't feel I could pass well and assimilate into the male population, I wouldn't have transitioned.
the actual phrase was "downright silly" - seems the same to me
either I'm just not getting it or you're contradicting yourself
there are plenty of bio-guys that are short or have small hands and feet or whatever, and you did say that makes them no less "real" than guys of average height
yet then you also say it's gonna be impossible for certain people to pass if they possess those traits? (well maybe not totally impossible but a lot harder)
Lets say you were one of the tiny guys - you wouldn't have transitioned because you wouldn't have fit in with the average male population?
Quote from: Jeatyn on February 16, 2009, 08:38:15 PM
the actual phrase was "downright silly" - seems the same to me
either I'm just not getting it or you're contradicting yourself
there are plenty of bio-guys that are short or have small hands and feet or whatever, and you did say that makes them no less "real" than guys of average height
yet then you also say it's gonna be impossible for certain people to pass if they possess those traits? (well maybe not totally impossible but a lot harder)
Lets say you were one of the tiny guys - you wouldn't have transitioned because you wouldn't have fit in with the average male population?
i never said anything about anyone being 'real' so take it out of quotes.
I never said that it was impossible to pass. Passing is subjective. The key to passing is assimilation and being short doesn't allow you to assimilate as someone who is tall.
I'm not one of the tiny guys so the hypothetical is pointless. I can give no statement to that affect, just like a tiny guy could not state his reality if he were in my five foot ten inch frame.
I'm about 5"4' myself. or 5"5' by last few times measured. I'm short for a guy, I have a genetic male friend who is shorter than me. Admit that we are both stocky helps some in the image, but I've seen small guys as well. I'd rather be a small guy than a normal woman. But it's really up to how each person feels about themselves. Think about it, talk it through to your therapist.
Quote from: Mister on February 16, 2009, 08:29:40 PM
On a personal note, if I didn't feel I could pass well and assimilate into the male population, I wouldn't have transitioned.
Seriously? I can't speak for anyone else, but for me at least, transitioning is about being more comfortable in my own body instead of trying to fit someone else's mold of what I should or shouldn't be. Anyway, don't worry about height man. Like someone else said, Jacob is only 5 feet and I really doubt any random person would think he was a trans-guy. Even if he was standing next to a bunch of 6 foot tall guys. Personally I like being small, although I'm a bit taller, about 5'5.
Quote from: Chamillion on February 16, 2009, 09:33:00 PM
Seriously? I can't speak for anyone else, but for me at least, transitioning is about being more comfortable in my own body instead of trying to fit someone else's mold of what I should or shouldn't be. Anyway, don't worry about height man. Like someone else said, Jacob is only 5 feet and I really doubt any random person would think he was a trans-guy. Even if he was standing next to a bunch of 6 foot tall guys. Personally I like being small, although I'm a bit taller, about 5'5.
Well, it sounds to me like you're much less binary minded than I. I'm not knocking your views here, but since I didn't do so well navigating the world as a woman, I'd have been pretty upset if i'd dedicated the time & energy into an ineffective transition. Just ask some of the dudes who have been on T for years and don't pass. i'm sure they'll tell you their transition hasn't be all roses.
I feel like this thread has turned into more of a debate or an argument, rather than a thread to give advice to the guy who asked for some help. Everybody is going to have their own opinions, but a lot of these posts sound very negative. Maybe I am alone in my opinion, but I think it would help more if we try to be a little more positive. Height is just one aspect of an individual, and I honestly don't think it should make anyone more of less of a man. :)
Quote from: jet3 on February 16, 2009, 11:35:46 PM
I feel like this thread has turned into more of a debate or an argument, rather than a thread to give advice to the guy who asked for some help. Everybody is going to have their own opinions, but a lot of these posts sound very negative. Maybe I am alone in my opinion, but I think it would help more if we try to be a little more positive. Height is just one aspect of an individual, and I honestly don't think it should make anyone more of less of a man. :)
Besides some think small guys are cute :P
There is enormous variation in size in both male and female. 5 foot isn't below normal as compared to average hight for a male. I'm transing form male to female. I'm 5ft 7" weigh 55kilos, always have as an adult. I'm physically tiny as a guy, no male has ever said anything disparaging. OK your not going to be a linebacker, but you will pass as a guy, grow a beard always helps. People say to themselves, there's a small guy who has grown a beard to look older. Bet he shaves it off later makes him look to old.
Have fun Bro
Cindy James
Hayden,
You'll be fine.
My bio-male spouse and I are the same height -- short! Our best friend (also, bio-male) is an inch shorter than us. We all get along in life just fine -- even side by side with several of our 6' friends.
T has changed my voice and appearance so much that I pass 100% of the time.
Ben
Bah I'm 5'2 and a half.
Short guys rule
LOL
T will do wonders and you will just be seen as a short man. I know many "small" guys..
Quote from: xchris flynnx on February 17, 2009, 12:07:39 PM
Bah I'm 5'2 and a half.
Short guys rule
LOL
Aye, same here, but I've still a couple years to be growing before my bones are supposed to close theoretically. Not like I'm expecting it to do much. I've grown about one inch in three years. :( Eh. I don't mind my height as is, I'm well proportioned, and unless I got fat/more muscular, getting taller would just give me that deathly tallnskinny look which I dread.
I am 5'4" and I have been since I was 16. I have never had my gender questioned before I came out. I was always "the short guy" but I was never treated as anything other then a male. I got called gay a lot but that was due more to my mannerisms then any thing else.
Just thought I'd throw in: I had a professor last semester who was somewhere around 5'1" or 5'2". None of the students questioned that he was male just because he was short.
I never said that men weren't short, people.
Quote from: Mister on February 17, 2009, 06:44:50 PM
I never said that men weren't short, people.
Um, nobody's mentioned you for a while. I think people are just trying to make the guy who started this thread feel better.
i thank you all whole-heartedly for your input, truly.
i didn't make this topic to 'feel better,' i made it for honest insight.
i appreciate what you have to say, mister.
being short just sucks - period. nothing that can be done.
it just makes me question transitioning; it's hard to be taken seriously when you're that small.
hayden i completely with you on this, but at the welding school(nothing but men) I attend, there are 2 guys shorter than me, and one guy is as tall as me. And Im the same height you descibed, barely 5 ft. And the dude I hang out with the most at school is 6 freakin 5. 6'5. 6 ...... 5. Its tough but crap, not much to do. Remember, me and you are the same height. I mean theres always height surgeries and what not, they probably only give a couple of inchs but its better than none I suppose.
I work with the public and one night I had a very TALL couple come in (both were at least 6', the guy had to be 6'5") and then had the shortest couple, the man had to be 5' and the woman 4'10". I'm at a conference and there are a ton of short guys here. I'm 5'3" and I've seen at least 3 gentlemen shorter than I am. I wouldn't let height stop you. Men come in ALL sizes.
Jay
Quote from: Andrew on February 16, 2009, 07:50:24 PM
If you don't mind me asking, are you gay, straight, or bi? The shortness might actually help your case if you like guys - a significant subset of the gay population is totally into small, boyish guys.
There are girls who don't care as well, although probably few who will find you extra cute as a result. So even if you're straight, you can get a date, although you may not be wooing people of the correct sexual orientation left and right with your adorable cuteness left and right like I surely will (egotistical me!). Overall, it's probably better to be short than ugly. If you're also ugly, just be betting on that great personality.
It could help you to pass better to have more of a presence, or try presenting more effectively as male, than worrying about your height or the size of your hands and feet.
my dad is about 5'3 but he definitely seems taller and bigger than he is because of how he speaks and acts. and he has very small feet. lol
also chances are that T will help widen your arms, hands and feet and weightlifting helps with that too.
and yes there is a lot of variation between male and female traits. there are men with feminine hands. there are really tall women. there are men with wide hips. there are women with manly faces. etc.
but in the end. we are all people with unique personalities before we are genders. and folks are out there who are perfectly fine with having trans friends or trans lovers. so who cares if some stranger thinks you might be trans because you're a little guy.
I know I'd be considered one of the 'taller' FTMs because I'm 5'7", but in my area the women are just giants(must be the chemicals). Before I used to be so self conscious about my height but then I realized that people don't really care as much about that as they care about how you present yourself. Not only that, but being short can have advantages.
You might need a ladder for some things and you might not look necessarily intimidating by your height alone, but generally speaking, the shorter you are the longer you can potentially live because your body doesn't have to work so much, getting everything out and in to your body. If you're skinny or fit, you'll probably be quicker, not necessarily faster.
I kind of like being on the short side. It makes me feel a bit unique and I think it'll look cool on me, when I start working out on T, to be that shorter guy with the muscles.
It's really just about your presentation. Don't do the small man syndrome, that wont help, just be you. The man that you are and no one will doubt.
you'll be fine... the only issue you'll have the first couple of years is everyone thinking you're a kid.
i'm really short and it sucks but it didn't even cross my mind as a reason to not transition.
Wouldn't worry too much about height, my father in law is 150 cm and a Colonel in the military! ;D
My mother in law was and still is a very beautiful woman and is a at least 5 cm taller, personality counts more than height.
I am really short too - even for a girl - so I am miniture for a boy. Alot of ppl ask me if I am a jockey - I am actually thinking about taking it up, just to stop the questions! A few guys that know me only as a guy call me Pocket Rocket - cause I am so tiny but they never assume Im a girl or anything like that.
I often get mistaken for a teenage boy (even though I am in my late 20s). My mother even complained that I looked like her 15 year old son!
In a room full of manly men - I sometimes feel inadequate, but a pub full of gay-boys and I fit right in - lol. So I guess it just depends. I try not to let my height worry me too much and just roll with the flow that I am a young looking guy