Hi All
I hope this os OK. Virginia Marie and I have become friends over the world by email. It's great someone to have girl talk too.
Virginia has a real bitch of a Apt Manager. I know with the cis girls I know they conduct themselves with subtle and not too unsubtle put downs that are accepeted as such. OK some are just down right rude. Guys just punch each other out or deal with it by violent swearing.
Can I have some pointers. What do you say to a bitch? What do you say to a bitch that has some percieved power over you?
Sorry. I'm none violent, but there are ways to deal with intra sex disputes. I haven't learned them.
Love and Peace to the World :D
Cindy James
It might help if you gave a few hypothetical situations. A lot of it is context and being observational.
*looks around furtively*
Uh... I mean I don't recommend that, I would suggest trying to stay calm and trying to accept that people only have as much power over you as you are willing to give them. The more they can see they are getting to you, the more you're giving them exactly what they want... a reaction.
It becomes a vicious cycle of tit-for-tat which gets worse and worse. One person has to break it.
o.0
seriously, this is a topic?
Yes, Mister,
This is a topic. If you find it frivolous, you don't need to respond. However, someone asked a question seeking help and it should be respected.
Rebis
Leiandra is correct about the vicious cycle. Maybe complimenting the person and being overly polite. To the point of sarcasm.
I didn't mean to upset Cindy in regards to my apt. mgr. But I do often feel picked on. This has been going on for over three years. I've always paid my rent, never late. I have often help people at various times and get along with most folks there. But for some reason she is often very critical of me. She makes rather sarcastic gender based comments. "You should wear a dress and carry a purse." "Well, are you a girl?" etc. Sometimes I think she's just trying to be funny. But often I can tell that I'm being slighted. She tries to blame me for what ever problems arise around here. Luckily some of the other ladies defend me to a point. But most of them don't want to get into it with her either. Anyway, we have inspections this week and that always stresses me out. I keep a clean place to begin with. But I have to get it extra clean for the inspection. But nothing is ever good enough for her. She will always find something to nit pick about. :P
Quote from: Virginia Marie on March 10, 2009, 12:46:41 PM
I didn't mean to upset Cindy in regards to my apt. mgr. But I do often feel picked on. This has been going on for over three years. I've always paid my rent, never late. I have often help people at various times and get along with most folks there. But for some reason she is often very critical of me. She makes rather sarcastic gender based comments. "You should wear a dress and carry a purse." "Well, are you a girl?" etc. Sometimes I think she's just trying to be funny. But often I can tell that I'm being slighted. She tries to blame me for what ever problems arise around here. Luckily some of the other ladies defend me to a point. But most of them don't want to get into it with her either. Anyway, we have inspections this week and that always stresses me out. I keep a clean place to begin with. But I have to get it extra clean for the inspection. But nothing is ever good enough for her. She will always find something to nit pick about. :P
lol, you have one of those ladies too!?! we did too, until Brittiney and another girl in the same building complained about all the crap she wanted us to pay for(like an extirmination for a 3-floor building--if that had been in the lease i would never have signed it!). the other girl moved out and we went for a few months without one, but she was never ever disrespectful to my face about my transition, so i give her credit for that, but as an apt. manager she really stunk.
If she is being abusive of her position, then report her behavior to the owners or property management. Check with your state in regards to tenants rights.
If it is a personal difference, and you are not a problem tenant. Consider moving. And stand tall when you deal with her. Be the geart lady that you are.
I think Cartman says it best:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153246 (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153246)
That is a cute video, brightened my day :laugh:
I think mostly it's the waking up at 4:00 am and having an anxiety attack from the stress that bothers me. Can't sleep, shaking, difficulty breathing, on the verge of an all out panic attack.
I think about moving all the time. The moment I find a place and can afford to move, I'm Audi 5000 - gone down the road....
Well... if she says anything about the inspection, you could always say:
"I'm sorry it's not clean enough for you. Unfortunately, candle wax is a pain to get out. Especially black candlewax. Y'see I've been busy trying to call into existence the redolent, hideously malformed, haemorrhoid-infested demon that was having a really bad day and decided to inflict you on the world as a punishment for the bowel discomfort.
I was hoping I could convince it to change its mind and drag you back to whichever circle of hell it vomited you up from.
That obviously doesn't seem to have worked. So... give me a bottle of carpet cleaner and I'll have the wax out in a jiffy."
Then smile sweetly.
...
Or... not. ;D
My favourite saying "What comes around, goes around" sometimes it takes a little while getting there.. but it sure does come back and hit you on the ass.. (I talk from experience)
QuotePut downs
Well they are normally individual.. I would only know how to put someone down if I knew them personally.. I would just study what they hate about themselves and work on it from there ;)
Jay
Post Merge: March 10, 2009, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Leiandra on March 10, 2009, 03:58:44 PM
Then smile sweetly.
That works the best ;)
Jay
You know how the old saying goes, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.". For whatever reason this lady is enjoying yanking your chain. It could be that she has an evil intent, or that she treats pretty much everyone rudely, or that she is mental, or all 3. Whatever.
If you get down and dirty with her you are going to get dirty, and she is going to like it.
And, like someone else said, she can only put you down if you let her.
Take the higher road, and kill her with kindness, or at least ignore her. You'll sleep better at night.
Quote from: Rebis on March 10, 2009, 11:46:55 AM
Yes, Mister,
This is a topic. If you find it frivolous, you don't need to respond. However, someone asked a question seeking help and it should be respected.
Rebis
Rebis, it's the blatant and repeated sexism. Why on earth is a MTF perpetuating such language? And why on earth isn't it covered in TOS?
Quote from: Mister on March 10, 2009, 06:46:09 PM
Rebis, it's the blatant and repeated sexism. Why on earth is a MTF perpetuating such language? And why on earth isn't it covered in TOS?
You have a problem with the way a poster states something, perhaps you should take it up with the poster. You have a problem with the TOS then the TOS suggests a remedy.
At this point you are posting only confrontations with people. Please stop or they will stop.
Nichole
There's not really much difference between the way males and females respond to disputes -- that is, if they're reasonable and nice about it. I would not want to make an enemy out of someone who has power over me. If they don't, I'm not as careful, but the suggestion of "killing them with kindness" seems to be the way to go. Not sarcastic, sickly-sweet kindness, but real, disarming kindness. It's hard to be mean to someone who doesn't react, responds kindly, and refuses to acknowledge that you're being mean.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on March 10, 2009, 12:46:41 PM"You should wear a dress and carry a purse."
Response: "You should lose some weight." Or, if you're in a particularly frisky mood, "You should wear a bag over your head."
Quote"Well, are you a girl?"
"Well,
I am a
woman ... but I'm not so sure about
you."
--
Andrew's right though. Making her embarassed to be so awful typically works the best. But sometimes you need to mix things up to get through to somebody who just doesn't get it. I had this happen with an acquantance -- a good friend of a good friend -- who was harassing me. I stood up to him and made a bit of a scene (entirely appropriate, since he was being really awful) and he's been incredibly contrite since then.
edit -- I was modifying it while you responded, Nichole! :)
As Andrew points out though, your responses, Alyssa, although perhaps satisfying in the short term would do nothing to disarm the problem. They would, prolly, make it worse.
I have to admit that I like Andrew's solution.
Nichole
Digging into her looks in subtle ways is one ofthe best, trust she'll be steamed if you can flip her. Basically you have to make jokes at her expense, and a lot of that comes down to saying something indirectly. A lot of this gets specific to the situation, but in general I like to play off of their words.
For example:
Witch: What?! Listen, you had better respect me as your Apt. Manager or else!
Nymph: Oh don't worry, that's the only way I'll respect you.
The footnote to all of this is that, as many have said, this only further inflames the situation so use these tactics sparingly and only when she is pushing too hard.
I looooove snappy sarcastic comebacks. I really only use them with friends, though, because otherwise there's too much risk involved. How much do you value your job? If you do, then unfortunately, acting like a b*tch is not the way to go. She can because she's your boss; while that does suck, you have no real way to make her change on your own without any help from higher-ups.
But, just because I love this sort of thing so much.. :D
You should wear a dress and carry a purse.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know it was the 1940's. You should wear an apron and get back into the kitchen. Bye! [Walk away.]
Well, are you a girl?
Sorry, are you questioning my gender because you want to mask your embarrassment at my being prettier than you? Huh. [And then shake your head in a slightly puzzled way, and continue doing what you were doing before she so rudely interrupted you with such an asinine question.]
Anyway, for some real advice on stuff you could actually say without getting fired.. whenever she makes some inappropriate gender comment, just sort of nod vaguely and distractedly and say "h'mm.. okay.. well I'm trying to work right now, was there something important you wanted to tell me?" all in a very sincere voice and a smile. She'll feel put-off, but won't be able to do a damn thing about it. ;)
Hi
Thanks for the advice to help a friend in need.
As to whether this post is appropriate or not, well!
I thought this site and section was for TGs to learn, support and help each other. Many MTF's have had to live in male orientated life styles. As we transition we have to learn the ways that women communicate.
I strongly suspect that out some of our FTM brothers have the same issues.
I would be happy to reply to someone in that situation and try to help.
If you don't like a post either ignore it or report it.
If you don't like me, I'll get over it.
Love and kisses to all.
Post Merge: March 11, 2009, 03:18:31 AM
Sorry.
Meant to add this.
Follow the words that are almost in the center of the Torah: to
love your neighbor as you love yourself. It is a hallmark of the Western
religions and many of the others. The rest is just commentary.
I'm none religous, but I live by a code.
Cindy James
Quote from: Mister on March 10, 2009, 06:46:09 PM
Rebis, it's the blatant and repeated sexism. Why on earth is a MTF perpetuating such language? And why on earth isn't it covered in TOS?
I just saw it as a way for the poster to enquire about how to handle trouble they are having with a woman. The reason for this might be (I'm guessing) that people who grew up in male bodies already have an understanding of most male behaviors. Where they lack experience is taking on another woman as a woman and not a male.
If you'd like to, we can discuss how FtMs, who have no experience around males, can effectively handle rude males.
In fact, I believe there was a thread a few years back where the man was asking exactly that; how to react to the casual put downs that men so easily toss back and forth.
I talked to my therapist (he's not a sex therapist, more of a shrink) about the situation yesterday. He said that he has heard several complaints from many people at my apt. complex about her behavior. He said that "she could get in allot of trouble". Particularly for her behavior towards me. It is not my intention to make trouble. I just don't want to be bullied or picked on.
I am never confrontational with her. I even play along and am always nice. But she still rides me and makes insulting rude comments. I was raised mainly by women and know a slight when I hear one.
Anyway, I finally got some sleep and feel better. Still a little nervous for the inspection tomorrow. I'll have to see how it goes
Quote from: Rebis on March 11, 2009, 11:00:36 AM
I just saw it as a way for the poster to enquire about how to handle trouble they are having with a woman. The reason for this might be (I'm guessing) that people who grew up in male bodies already have an understanding of most male behaviors. Where they lack experience is taking on another woman as a woman and not a male.
If you'd like to, we can discuss how FtMs, who have no experience around males, can effectively handle rude males.
In fact, I believe there was a thread a few years back where the man was asking exactly that; how to react to the casual put downs that men so easily toss back and forth.
Slice it any way you'd like, but bitch is sexism.
As for the thread "a few years back," I haven't been around that long, but if that guy was using sexism in his post, i'd find that just as inappropriate.
You are exactly right Mister. Sexism sucks.
But, it is a fixture in the reality that we all live in today and you cannot pick on the original poster for , as you see it, perpetuating the problem.
Until the entire world holds a summit meeting and decides it will eradicate the ideas of sexism (not gonna happen), then you will be justified in bullying others for fighting fire with fire.
Consider the whole world as a prison where if you don't play the game and show your strength immediately upon attack, you will forever be seen as weak and will be an easy target for those wishing to prove themselves. Being trans pretty much gives people the permission to use us as doormats and if we don't learn to stand up for ourselves and push back, we will end up as the prison bitch.
To the original poster: Two words, passive aggression.
Quote from: Mister on March 11, 2009, 03:16:44 PM
Slice it any way you'd like, but bitch is sexism.
As for the thread "a few years back," I haven't been around that long, but if that guy was using sexism in his post, i'd find that just as inappropriate.
Slice it any way you wish; but that word is sexism to you and to myself, Mister. Period. There may be others who totally agree with us, but there are many who won't.
But my experience with MTFs, and much of it has been rocky due to not just that word but to many other terms and attitudes that I find sexist and demeaning, but they find "empowering and complimentary." The heads knock and we all walk away thinking that we have "won."
I agree with you completely about not only the word itself, but also the general attitude that there are huge differences as to "how women can fight and how men fight."
There are various tactics that men are likely to use in their fights and there are various tactics that women may be more inclined to use. The foundation for those does tend to be patriarchal and sexist.
But, why I cannot imagine, a lot of MTFs feel a certain validation in being called "bitch" and have no problem using the word. They also find a certain validation in being told "you act like a woman."
How one acts like a woman -- well, I suppose we all find different ways to act like a woman as you may well find a different way to act like a man.
But, when it all comes down to it, you and I cannot make people see that that word is dismissive and demeaning. If someone finds that it validates her as a woman, then how can I change that?
Shrug and let it go. You'll not change anyone's mind who doesn't have a changed mind already. People either learn or they don't. Not every battle is worth the fight. Try to see that. Makes for a more peaceful life. Besides, if they don't agree with you the constant calling them on it will only solidify the resistance to what you say.
Nichole
Many women call each other Bitch also. I know, I was raised by women. Although this thread does deal with sexism that has been leveed against me by someone who is obviously a bigoted sexist, I don't understand why you are so bent on jumping this thread with your own argument regarding a particular term that strikes you wrong and you have probably used yourself. If you would like to discuss the sexist ramifications of the term Bitch, maybe you should start your own thread where you can Bitch about the term Bitch to your hearts content. Have a nice Day :laugh:
OK, so I'm getting gender bashed and all you can think of is a term you don't like. Thanks for your support. Oh, and have a nice day :laugh:
Hey, I just didn't know that sexism was acceptable language. you'd think a woman would be upset at the comparison of her gender to a freaking animal.... but I suppose that's only something you take on when you're not raised with male privilege. My bad.
I see that you consider yourself a male. I guess you must have enjoyed all the so called privileges that a male enjoys. Such as a hard @$$ world that is constantly on your @$$ for anything and everything. Having to constantly defend yourself all the time. The cold "I don't give a $#!t" attitude. Oh yeah, thems males feel soooooooo privileged and need more abuse. Dang, can't get enough of it :laugh:
Quote from: Virginia Marie on March 11, 2009, 05:25:28 PM
I see that you consider yourself a male. I guess you must have enjoyed all the so called privileges that a male enjoys. Such as a hard @$$ world that is constantly on your @$$ for anything and everything. Having to constantly defend yourself all the time. The cold "I don't give a $#!t" attitude. Oh yeah, thems males feel soooooooo privileged and need more abuse. Dang, can't get enough of it :laugh:
Wow. Just wow.
Dear, Virginia and Mister,
Please stop this argument over a single term, the word may have sexist connotations to some and not others but at the end of the day it's an insult used against another person when in an argument or when insulted or offended by that person. It shouldn't be used because it is offencive in general. :police:
Besides your both coming across as defensive and petty and I'd like to think your better than that.
Claire xoxo
I didn't start it and did not want to be drawn into it. But I'll def. end it :laugh:
*sigh* If you don't like what someone says, say so and then leave it alone. Please? Both of you.
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