Hey everyone,
I thought I'd start the first topic of this new thread we have. Dating for the non-op.
Personally, while right now I'm not ready to be with anyone, I feel that dating is going to be especially hard for myself and those of us who have, while we may have taken other steps such as orchiectomy, mastectomy, etc. to match our bodies with our minds...we are still not able or are unwilling to have SRS/GRS. This, invariably, seriously affects our intimate relationships.
There's lots of questions for discussion here, but I'll start us off with a few: How does one disclose their non-op status to a potential partner? When do we disclose? Immediately? After a few dates? Right before we're about to get intimate with our partner? Furthermore, how do we work around being a non-op during intimacy, or in other words, please our partners and let them please us when our genitalia don't necessarily match the rest of ourselves?
I'll be following this one with keen interest myself. Thanks for starting it Fae.
Mina.
Thanks Fae
I'm not in the position to date but I think one has to be terribly careful. I think the partner should not find out by accident, that could lead to a violent incident. Using TS/TG dating agencies as Janet suggested sounds good but you have to be in big cities for them to be present. I also think, without any evidence what so ever that you can still come across 'strange people' who use such sites to prey on others.
Even in my situation of being committed to a woman who depends totally on me, I still dream of satisfying a male lover.
Cindy JAmes
I think a lot of it is trial and error. I'm still sort of figuring out what I like and don't like sexually. But I've also found that while it seems that on the surface you'd be at a disadvantage not having any srs--really it's a great way to filter out people, and make sure you're spending time with people who really want you for all of you. It's also important for me that the relationship not be completely tied up in sex either.
But I'd say more men and women are interested than you'd think.
And like i said in the other thread, Bisexuals tend to be a natural ally for the non-op. Just because their attraction is not tied to your genetalia, its tied to who you are. And if you have a penis where you should have a vagina, or vice versa, they tend to just roll with it.
Honestly, beautiful is beautiful. And who you are and how you act is about 90 percent of it.
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on April 02, 2009, 03:16:32 AM
I think a lot of it is trial and error. I'm still sort of figuring out what I like and don't like sexually. But I've also found that while it seems that on the surface you'd be at a disadvantage not having any srs--really it's a great way to filter out people, and make sure you're spending time with people who really want you for all of you. It's also important for me that the relationship not be completely tied up in sex either.
But I'd say more men and women are interested than you'd think.
And like i said in the other thread, Bisexuals tend to be a natural ally for the non-op. Just because their attraction is not tied to your genetalia, its tied to who you are. And if you have a penis where you should have a vagina, or vice versa, they tend to just roll with it.
Honestly, beautiful is beautiful. And who you are and how you act is about 90 percent of it.
Totally agree with you Sarah, it's all about your attitude towards the situation...not sure about bisexuals as I haven't met many, but I would tend to think that anyone involved in the GLBT community, even if their a heterosexual ally, would at least have some understanding and generally be accepting. The area in which you live also helps, as it increases your chance of meeting some understanding folks. Not necessarily a large city like San Francisco or NYC, as I believe there are a lot of places where one can find the same resources, perhaps in a smaller city?
As for TG/TS dating sites...I personally avoid those, as it seems that, as Cindy pointed out, predators (who may indeed be confused about their own identity/sexuality) lurk on those sites. Also, I wish to be seen as a woman, not as a TG/TS...that part of me is in the past and it's over. Granted, it's still relevant as far as dating/intimate relationships, but I am SO much more than that.
As for disclosure...I've talked to my therapist about this, and she suggests getting to know the person as friends first, telling them when comfortable, and THEN try dating. She says I should avoid casual dating, i.e. random hook-ups.
Hmmm... a topic right up my alley -- I'm non-op, been full-time for a year and actively dating for 2 1/2 years. In that time I've had two relationships lasting over 6 months, dates with 9 different women and had an additional 8 or so romantic interests that never resulted in a date. I identify as lesbian although I am somewhat bi-curious. I have only dated women, but have had little problems finding them.
For the most part I just got out there and met people. I had the benefit of pre-existing connections to the lesbian community. I got involved in several social groups through the local GLBT community centers and developed friendships there.
What I will say is from my own experience... what has helped me may not be right for you.
My first point of advice: get your own head-space in order. Be comfortable with yourself both as a person and as a transperson. Find a place where you can accept your body as it is. The single most important element in dating, whether trans or not, is to be confident in your self. A healthy level of self-confidence is fairly universally attractive. As Sarah said, who you are is 90% of it.
Second: You will encounter three types of people: 1) Folks who will not date a transperson; 2) Folks who will date a transperson 3) Folks that don't know if they will date a transperson. In my experience the folks in category 1 outnumber the folks in category 3 who outnumber the folks in category 2. When folks in category 1 or 3 reject you, don't be discouraged... the reality is it takes a special person to see beyond the physical anatomy. It will take time to find them.
As far as when to tell someone, I tend to be very upfront about my status. That choice has both good and bad repercussions. On the plus side I weed out immediately folks where dating me is totally NOT an option. On the negative side, some folks who might have been ok if they got to know me, opt out before we get to that point. In my mind, another advantage to early disclosure is I'm starting my connection with the person from a place of honesty... something critical in making any relationship work.
Thanks so much for the tips pheonix.
If I may ask, how early do you disclose? Dating profile/first date kinda thing, or do you give it one or two dates before you do?
Mina.
Quote from: mina.m->-bleeped-<-ie link=topic=58181.msg369433#msg369433 date=1239049544
Thanks so much for the tips pheonix.
If I may ask, how early do you disclose? Dating profile/first date kinda thing, or do you give it one or two dates before you do?
Mina.
My general rule of thumb is before the first date, often when I'm first meeting the person.
For more specifics:
When I meet someone at lesbian clubs and events with alcohol, I find it best to disclose early in the acquaintance, since the level of physical contact at those tends to be somewhat accelerated. Generally, I'd rather have control over letting that information out rather than have an awkward accidental discovery.
For women I have met through my social circles, I tend to get to know them for two or three times before disclosing my status. But if they are aggressively pursuing dating me, I will disclose sooner. That being said, given I don't hide my status in my social circles, it's typically not a surprise when I disclose and they've often weighed that factor in before pursuing me for dating. My best dating experiences have come through friend of a friend type situations.
I've not really used any web or other dating services so I can't comment on those.
Thanks much for the advise pheonix, it's much appreciated. I will keep some of what you said in mind.
Quote from: pheonix on April 06, 2009, 03:54:02 PM
My best dating experiences have come through friend of a friend type situations.
I've not really used any web or other dating services so I can't comment on those.
Same here. :)
Probably you should disclose yourself as soon as possible and get it out of the way. If the other person accepts you all is well.
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on April 02, 2009, 03:16:32 AM
I think a lot of it is trial and error. .... Bisexuals tend to be a natural ally for the non-op. Just because their attraction is not tied to your genetalia, its tied to who you are.
Quoted for accuracy.
:D
I've only dated online. There would be no chance of coming into a violent encounter with someone if they found out over the internet. I usually tell them before I even think of becoming "friends" with that person. And for people in real-life well..I haven't had the opportunity to tell anyone
Quote from: Stag on April 18, 2009, 02:50:57 AM
I've only dated online.
That is by definition: impossible. You can't go on a date online.
QuoteThere would be no chance of coming into a violent encounter with someone if they found out over the internet.
Or kiss, hold hands, cuddle, dance, bang, look into one another's eyes, etc.
QuoteI haven't had the guts to tell anyone
Edited for accuracy.
Well what I meant by date was going into a relationship with someone. I always use the word "date" for that. It's out of habit.
The kissing and holding hand thing..has never bothered me while being with someone over the internet
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on April 02, 2009, 03:16:32 AM
Bisexuals tend to be a natural ally for the non-op. Just because their attraction is not tied to your genetalia, its tied to who you are.
Being bisexual simply means you are attracted to both genders, and does NOT mean you are pansexual. I am bi and I like downstairs, just on both genders, thankyouverymuch.
Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on April 18, 2009, 03:45:58 PM
That is by definition: impossible. You can't go on a date online.
Or kiss, hold hands, cuddle, dance, bang, look into one another's eyes, etc.
This is kind of an antiquated view on contemporary human socialism. Look up Second Life, and what's going on there.
Also some might say that the connection online is somewhat more intense, since generally the focus is on who you are, and not how you look.
Post Merge: July 16, 2009, 03:18:04 AM
Quote from: Asher on July 02, 2009, 12:22:26 PM
Being bisexual simply means you are attracted to both genders, and does NOT mean you are pansexual. I am bi and I like downstairs, just on both genders, thankyouverymuch.
Right, but the odds of finding someone not tied to genitalia is intrinsically higher in the bisexual community. For a lot of reasons, frankly. But not the least of which is that there are a lot of people who don't know what the word pansexual means, and so you're often going to find those people most in that community.
Plus if you're using the internet to find someone, there's not a pansexual option on most dating sites, so you're better off going to the bisexuals.
That said, my girlfriend is a lesbian. So who really knows. But on the whole I've had much more luck dealing with bisexuals than, by percentage, any other group. You're actually somewhat of the exception in terms of bisexuals I've dealt with.
Annwyn put it out there with less sugar coating than I think is appropriate, but it's a dose of realism. A lot of young people, or people with abnormal situations (of which being TS/TG falls under) fall into the online trap.
I've done it. Hell I didn't kiss anyone til I was 20 and that was someone that I'd gotten to know as a friend online for a long time.
But it's not the same thing at all. It really isn't. Second life is not a substitute for real life, and in the long run it just makes you more lonely when you focus your attentions on an escape instead of advancement.
There was a point when just the whole having someone there who cared thing was the world to me, and don't get me wrong, it helped me in my darkest times. But my life got much better once I found real people. Better to make changes to your station and appearance in life rather than your avatar in a game. And better to grow stronger as a person and individual, because there will be plenty of times in your life when you will feel alone and unloved, and you have to learn to deal with that.
The other thing is that fantasies are often just that - fantasies. If significant portions of your development as an individual and in relationships are just fantasies, then when you actually are exposed to them, it may go very differently than you expected. Cybersex in a corset is fun, real sex in a corset is kind of uncomfortable.
How could you possibly not kiss someone until age 20? :laugh: j/k
I lost my virginity when I was 11 O_O I think I had my first "gf" in kindergarten. I can't quite call it that, but I do know we had experimented quite a bit with each other's lips.
If you asked me how many people I've been with, I really couldn't even begin to tell you, or even give a ballpark estimate. I think I've dated maybe... 100-150 people, only including the relationships that lasted longer than two weeks.
To some that makes me a slut. To me, it's given me enough confidence to know exactly who I am and be 100% comfortable with my body and to appreciate other people's attraction to my body. Do I care if they care if I have a penis? It's there, between my legs. If someone doesn't like it then obviously it's impossible to get past a certain point in the relationship. Therefore the obvious solution is to find someone that doesn't mind it or is even minutely attracted to it.
In the end... the penis is just like a vagina. It's a hotspot for pleasure located between the legs whether on a female or male body. I don't give a crap if a guy happens to like it more than he would if I had a pussy; as I explore my sexuality as a tgirl, ->-bleeped-<-, transsexual, whatever the hell you wanna call it, I find myself in more and more of a gray area of what's between my legs and more concerned with finding men who want me for my looks, my body, my personality, and yes, what's between my legs.
Frankly... a penis is easier to mess with than a vagina. If I were a guy and could pick between a gg girl or a tgirl, I'd choose the latter because it's easier to give head that way, and there's no PMSing.
I know a lot of ugly transwomen with a disgust for their genitilia so deep that they have no libido and are paranoid of men having ANY attraction or interest in that part of their bodies, and I know some absolutely stunning transwomen who feel the same. I also know some pretty ugly ones who love the attention of a man, a ->-bleeped-<-, whatever, and some beautiful ones too. I know it's a comment that's going to get me a ton of flame, but frankly most of the transwomen I've seen who are fine being chased in their pre-op condition are some of the best looking tgirls I've seen. These are the women who don't care if they're called a ->-bleeped-<- or a maricone or whatever, as long as the pronouns match and they've got a functional life and a hot boyfriend, or a few of them.
I've had a bit of a new perspective to consider in the past few weeks as I've been doing escort work. All these guys who are without a doubt 100% heterosexual, willing to pay money to be with a woman with a member. I mean, frankly it's opened my eyes, and I'm seeing a lot of guys my age just to date now as well, who knows how many as it seems there's a new one everyday. I have a large selection of athletic, educated and creative young men to pick from eventually just by advertising the peculiar parts of my anatomy.
I mean seriously, if you think a guy who's hitting on you is hitting on you because he's gay or has bisexual tendencies... think again. You don't have bodyhair, big muscles, overly masculine features. You're in every way a woman and there's nothing masculine about a transwoman. Any queer in key west would rather shoot themselves than bang a ->-bleeped-<-, seriously.
So, the purpose of this long rant was... without purpose. I suppose that all in all, it supported my original conclusion about ->-bleeped-<-s. Who cares? Guys like tits and ass, and guess what? Transwomen have tits and ass, nuff said.
Annwyn, I am finding myself agreeing with much of what you just said, because for the non-op (I believe), what you described is pretty much the dilemma we are faced with: if a man is hitting on us, is it because we have a penis and they are gay/bi? Or is it because they see us as women? You summed it up quite nicely, with the latter being true.
I used to be disgusted with my genitalia, but ever since my Orchi things in my mind have calmed down and I've accepted what I have between my legs. Does that make it difficult as far as dating is concerned? Of course, because the large majority of people would be uncomfortable with someone in my situation. However, that's not to say that an accepting partner isn't out there. The problem is just finding them, and doing so in a safe manner in order to protect oneself.
Irregardless, for whatever reason a man may be interested in me...it doesn't matter as I consider myself a lesbian and could only see myself with another woman.
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on July 16, 2009, 03:11:18 AM
Also some might say that the connection online is somewhat more intense, since generally the focus is on who you are, and not how you look.
From online relationship experience (only dating experience) it is more intense. If I had a choice between a real life relationship and an online one it'd be hard for me to choose
Quote from: Fae on July 16, 2009, 12:26:30 PM
Irregardless
Ugh.
My brain inverts itself into a black hole everytime I hear that word.
Quote from: Autumn on July 16, 2009, 03:28:36 AM
Annwyn put it out there with less sugar coating than I think is appropriate, but it's a dose of realism. A lot of young people, or people with abnormal situations (of which being TS/TG falls under) fall into the online trap.
I've done it. Hell I didn't kiss anyone til I was 20 and that was someone that I'd gotten to know as a friend online for a long time.
But it's not the same thing at all. It really isn't. Second life is not a substitute for real life, and in the long run it just makes you more lonely when you focus your attentions on an escape instead of advancement.
There was a point when just the whole having someone there who cared thing was the world to me, and don't get me wrong, it helped me in my darkest times. But my life got much better once I found real people. Better to make changes to your station and appearance in life rather than your avatar in a game. And better to grow stronger as a person and individual, because there will be plenty of times in your life when you will feel alone and unloved, and you have to learn to deal with that.
The other thing is that fantasies are often just that - fantasies. If significant portions of your development as an individual and in relationships are just fantasies, then when you actually are exposed to them, it may go very differently than you expected. Cybersex in a corset is fun, real sex in a corset is kind of uncomfortable.
You're wrong though. I mean, you're right for you. But not for everyone. Some people can and do make intense personal connections in these areas, and I find it slightly offensive to denigrate them, because the emotions and feelings involved in them, ARE real. People kill themselves over online relationships. And you may see that as a sad statement of affairs, but I see it as a slight change in the equation.
This is where we are as a society, and we're only going to go further.
I mean, not for nothing, but we're having this conversation over the internet. It's not somehow less of a conversation just because it's in this medium.
The internet allows for an expansion of the mind into places, peoples, and information you may not have otherwise had access to. It's up to you to do what you want with that after that. But I don't think you can legitimately criticize someone in such a harsh way.
It's not worse. It's diffrent.
I'd rather someone be able to make those connections on the internet than be alone with no social outlet whatsoever.
Without the internet, I don't know if I would have met and fallen in love with my current girlfriend. It allowed both of us to experience each other in a very full way before we even met. We were friend recommended on facebook through a mutual link we didn't even know we had. And it's worked out really really well.
Quote from: Vega on July 16, 2009, 02:47:12 PM
From online relationship experience (only dating experience) it is more intense. If I had a choice between a real life relationship and an online one it'd be hard for me to choose
That's so sad.
I'm really sorry for you:(
Oh Anwynn, I do so love you, if for no other reason than when you are right, you are so right. (as for the other reasons, my GF would kill me).
Quote from: tekla on July 17, 2009, 12:50:59 AM
Oh Anwynn, I do so love you, if for no other reason than when you are right, you are so right. (as for the other reasons, my GF would kill me).
Thank you! Your gf? Is she trans or gg?
Oh and one more thing to add:
A transwoman has two major options for romance in her life:
She can be completely anal about any attention she recieves from anyone because she's paranoid of it not being genuine or them liking her as something less than a woman(despite the boobs and the face and all the other womanly things about her)/
Or you have the girls who are all about the extra attention they get for being trans and wind up engaged and happy early in transition and have a supportive man in their life up to and after surgery.
:D
Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on July 17, 2009, 09:24:32 AM
A transwoman has two major options for romance in her life:
She can be completely anal about any attention she recieves from anyone because she's paranoid of it not being genuine or them liking her as something less than a woman(despite the boobs and the face and all the other womanly things about her)/
Or you have the girls who are all about the extra attention they get for being trans and wind up engaged and happy early in transition and have a supportive man in their life up to and after surgery.
:D
What would you say the option for Non-Ops would be?
Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on July 17, 2009, 12:49:12 AM
That's so sad.
I'm really sorry for you:(
Pardon me if I'm wrong but I assume this is supposed to be offensive..because if it's one thing I've learned from this website it's that I'm not liked. Why are you sorry for me? I actually enjoy online relationships unlike 90% of other people
Non-ops have it lucky because they're the ideal candidate for an overwhelming amount of very interested men, and women too believe it or not.
Oh and ms interwebs dating, I'm glad you can find satisfaction and connection through a monitor. It's not offensive, a tad bit sarcastic to be sure.
The internet is a big place, but so is the world around you.
Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on July 17, 2009, 04:32:45 PM
Non-ops have it lucky because they're the ideal candidate for an overwhelming amount of very interested men, and women too believe it or not.
But would those
very interested men and women be interested because they see us as women, or as something else?
Quote from: Fae on July 17, 2009, 04:58:17 PM
But would those very interested men and women be interested because they see us as women, or as something else?
Both :) Women with a little "extra", not either-or. I think the "something else" is really the attraction for those who are only interested because they want to fulfill a sexual fantasy only, with no interest in "you-the-woman".
Guys who want to SCREW you are more likely to just wanna see what a chick with a dick is like.
Guys who want to LOVE you want to love you for the woman you are.
Durdadurrrr.
Yeah, what she said :)
Online relationships can be fun. I have received some very interesting love letters from admirers in different parts of the world. One guy in Argentina said he is willing to pay for my transition. Most are probably lying. I found another CD who lives close by and met him in person once. Guess what. The individual was not the same person in the profile photo. The photo showed a fairly young attractive lady who might be fun to shop with and go out and about. Reality check! He's an elderly pervert. A closet queen who is into bondage and S/M. I consider myself a lady first and foremost. When I do feel a little frisky it is with someone very special.
Quote from: finewine on July 17, 2009, 06:21:55 PM
Both :) Women with a little "extra", not either-or. I think the "something else" is really the attraction for those who are only interested because they want to fulfill a sexual fantasy only, with no interest in "you-the-woman".
The difficulty lies in avoiding those types who have no interest in "me-the-woman" because that's who I am! Why would I want to be with someone who isn't interested in that? Doesn't make any sense :D
Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on July 17, 2009, 06:40:42 PM
Guys who want to SCREW you are more likely to just wanna see what a chick with a dick is like.
Guys who want to LOVE you want to love you for the woman you are.
Durdadurrrr.
Thanks for putting it so bluntly Annwyn, I sort of figured that. :P
I want someone in the 2nd category.
I make a lot of money from people in the first category.
I make a tremendous more amount by the people who want to buy my love and see me regularly.
I agree I don't like online relationships. However, it's less about the physical aspect and more about the extensive dramas over "not being close enough" and whatnot. It's just so juvenile at this point.
As for the rest of this thread - well, if you care more about money and sex than genuine relationships, go ahead and sell your body. I don't think - or at least hope - that many feel this way. ;)
I have a beautiful mixed gender body. Those who I allow to taste....are truly honored and blessed.
I would just love to go on a date sometime. My wife and I have an open relationship where we can date when we want. My problem is I can't find someone interested. I've tried the online and TG/TS dating sites. My problem is that I'm a long way from being the little cute 20 or 30 somethings the frequent the sites. If I could find someone who wanted to date me, I would tell them up front about my non-op status. Then if they still want to take me out, there's nothing in the way of having a wonderful time.
Pre-op or non-op women make up most the HIV/AIDS cases in the SAMHSA program I was associated with. Get tested!
Quote from: xsocialworker on August 22, 2009, 11:58:37 PM
Pre-op or non-op women make up most the HIV/AIDS cases in the SAMHSA program I was associated with. Get tested!
Ummm...for some reason, I find this statement highly offensive. For one thing, it seems that you are implying that ALL pre- and non-op women have HIV/AIDS, but how could that even be remotely true, unless you are just perpetuating a stereotype which has haunted gay men for decades, and pushing it onto us.
It is an interesting question.
Last year, a newspaper here reported that a pre-op M2F was arrested by police (I do not remember what the charge was, but it was minor one). It reported that policemen were surpirsed at her beauty, but later realized that she got cosmetic surgeries in every part of her face and body. Anyway, she looked so beautiful and charming, a police officer confessed.
The number of her male customers listed in the address book of her cellular phone was > 1,000.
Another interesting thing was the main reason why the customers paid money and had relationship with her: for curiosity. Most of them replied that way to the inquire of the police. All of the cusomers were seemingly straight and ordinary men, usually with wife and kids.
There are a few men who once said I am beautiful like a woman whatever I wear. They are usually kind to me, but that's it. They do not ask something further. All of them have wives, making me think that they are not gays. As long as I do not have physical relationship, it is fine to me as at least they are kind to me, sometimes favoring me.
Barbie~~
HIV/AIDS have nothing to do with the fact you are male, female, post-op, pre-op, non-op, genetic, etc. It depend on the way of life you live. Even if you are non-op woman, if you have only one loving partner and you are both healthy, there is no way you got AIDS.
Quote from: medo on August 24, 2009, 01:10:32 PM
HIV/AIDS have nothing to do with the fact you are male, female, post-op, pre-op, non-op, genetic, etc. It depend on the way of life you live. Even if you are non-op woman, if you have only one loving partner and you are both healthy, there is no way you got AIDS.
Pretty much, which is why I find xsocialworker's post quite out-of-line with this topic.
Quote from: Fae on August 23, 2009, 08:45:04 PM
Ummm...for some reason, I find this statement highly offensive. For one thing, it seems that you are implying that ALL pre- and non-op women have HIV/AIDS, but how could that even be remotely true, unless you are just perpetuating a stereotype which has haunted gay men for decades, and pushing it onto us.
This program was focusing on homeless people who are engaged in high risk behavior. The emphasis was on working with transwomen using and doing sex work. Obviously there might be a high incidence of HIV/AIDS.
Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on July 17, 2009, 06:40:42 PM
Guys who want to SCREW you are more likely to just wanna see what a chick with a dick is like.
Guys who want to LOVE you want to love you for the woman you are.
Durdadurrrr.
I just love to read your posts!
Quote from: Fae on July 22, 2009, 12:14:50 PM
The difficulty lies in avoiding those types who have no interest in "me-the-woman" because that's who I am! Why would I want to be with someone who isn't interested in that? Doesn't make any sense :D
Maybe I'm far from the right person to talk about this, but this is just my opinion. The man, that you want to see you as a woman, is good to be at least tolerant to the fact that you have a penis. In contrary, you could be really great person, but the mean who think woman = vagina, will see you as men, when he find out, you have penis and there will be no more love.
Quote from: pheonix on April 06, 2009, 02:52:22 PM
As far as when to tell someone, I tend to be very upfront about my status. That choice has both good and bad repercussions. On the plus side I weed out immediately folks where dating me is totally NOT an option. On the negative side, some folks who might have been ok if they got to know me, opt out before we get to that point. In my mind, another advantage to early disclosure is I'm starting my connection with the person from a place of honesty... something critical in making any relationship work.
Nothing to add. Well said.
HLL&R
Maebh
Quote from: medo on August 25, 2009, 11:40:55 AM
Maybe I'm far from the right person to talk about this, but this is just my opinion. The man, that you want to see you as a woman, is good to be at least tolerant to the fact that you have a penis. In contrary, you could be really great person, but the mean who think woman = vagina, will see you as men, when he find out, you have penis and there will be no more love.
Good thing I'm not interested in men! :laugh:
I'm a lesbian, so I was moreso trying to determine how another woman would see me.
Quote from: Fae on August 27, 2009, 10:46:55 PM
Good thing I'm not interested in men! :laugh:
I'm a lesbian, so I was moreso trying to determine how another woman would see me.
I had dinner with a friend and a lesbian friend of her's a while back, and my friend brought up the question of if the other's girlfriend had a penis, would she stay with her? It was heartwarming to hear from her that yes, if she was the same person mentally and physically, just with different genitals, she'd still want to be with her.
A lot of lesbians are... militantly? anti-penis. We're seen as pretenders, even after srs, by some of them, just as men trying to get into their pants. Not real women. Some express the attitude that TS can't be lesbians because it's an exclusive badge. The same holds true for a woman that believes that penis = not a woman as it does for men.
There really isn't a way to determine how someone will see you until you have a real person in mind.
Quote from: Autumn on August 28, 2009, 02:08:45 AM
A lot of lesbians are... militantly? anti-penis.
In my own experience this is a bit exaggerated. I know a few that think like that but have had far greater numbers willing to at least consider the possibility. That being said, I wonder if part of the reason I've had little trouble in the lesbian community is that I fit in amongst them. I look, dress and act similar to most women in the community by virtue of who I am. I suspect if I was straight-looking and behaving, I'd likely get different responses.
Quote from: Autumn on August 28, 2009, 02:08:45 AM
There really isn't a way to determine how someone will see you until you have a real person in mind.
This seems more accurate to me.
Post Merge: August 28, 2009, 01:15:16 PM
Quote from: Fae on August 27, 2009, 10:46:55 PM
Good thing I'm not interested in men! :laugh:
I'm a lesbian, so I was moreso trying to determine how another woman would see me.
It really depends on the woman and how she views you. Is she attracted to how you appear, your personality, etc? It's really the same equation when it comes to dating anyone.
Quote from: Autumn on August 28, 2009, 02:08:45 AM
A lot of lesbians are... militantly? anti-penis.
This has been my experience thus far. So I am a little apprehensive when it comes to possibly dating women within the lesbian (or even the bisexual) community.
Quote from: pheonix on August 28, 2009, 01:12:33 PM
It really depends on the woman and how she views you. Is she attracted to how you appear, your personality, etc? It's really the same equation when it comes to dating anyone.
My fear (albeit maybe an irrational one) is that despite being attracted to my personality, my appearance/mannerisms, etc., and if she sees me as a woman, that she will still reject me once I come out to her (explain that I still have a "penis"), or once we become intimate together.
Overall, I am trying to put the whole dating/relationship thing on hold while I work on other life issues that are more pressing at the moment...
I was dating a really lovely girlfriend..Anne ..(not her real name), as I got to know Anne I found myself inventing a macho alpha male history, drawing from my former life prior to
when I began my reasignment. After some weeks I grew increasingly strung out and confused living as this everyman, and knowing without any uncertainty that I was/am Sarah. I put my reassignement on hold in 2004 when things ; peoples attiududes/isolation/no support/illness/stress the list goes on became out of control. The more I portrayed the big tough boyfriend for Anne the more wretched and imploding I felt. One sunday afternoon, I ended the relationship becuase I knew I was living a lie everytime I looked into her eyes, and telling her about Sarah and seeing the dissapointment of betrayal, the lies, and dishonesty would have been unbearable.
I'm single now, I have been for at least 3 years, I go on some dating sites, the women there seem to be primaily attracted to cavemen, I've had a couple of dates, but I think I came across as a gay male. When I think of dating, I am cautious, but I strongly feel that honesty is important.
Lonliness is a powerful motivator, so is the need to feel normal, and experience love. Being transgendered, like many lifestyles that cause one to live on the periphery of society, magnifies the emotion of helplessness and the notion of living in your own divorced enclave.
Like some transgendered people I have been an escort. Having some bicurious house husband treating me as a lady, buyiung me lingerie to wear and fullfulling his (or her) elicit fantasy for an afternoon, its a way of finding
a brief if maladaptive happiness as the woman I am.
First of all, in case it has any relevance, I have a male brain and female body and all my relationships have been with men. I haven't transitioned physically and perhaps never will; I feel pretty comfortable with the body I've got even though it doesn't reflect my gender identity, and I'm pretty hesitant when it comes to any surgery or medication unless it's important to save my life. Anyway, back on topic . . .
When I was younger, I was afraid to tell my partners for fear of rejection. But as time went on, it seemed like a pressing moral issue - that this was something they should know about me if they wanted to commit to me in any way.
I started out "testing the waters" by joking about being a man in a woman's body. I observed my partner's reactions and grew increasingly serious until it reached the point where we could have an actual conversation on it. The first bf I told said he didn't care because he wasn't 100% straight anyway. The second one I told (the first in a more serious relationship) told me that he would always love me as a friend, and would want to be my bf as long as I had a female body, but that if I chose to transition, he wouldn't be attracted to me sexually anymore because he was only attracted to people with female bodies. I really appreciated his straight-forward and accepting response, and I was really glad we had this conversation. It continued to be something we could talk about openly during the next 2 years that we were together.
Each time I disclose my GID to a lover, my confidence grows, and I keep getting better at talking about it early on, and being as open as possible. Every heterosexual guy I've told has been accepting, willing to talk about it openly, and seemed appreciative of my courage in getting it out in the open.
It can be intimidating at first, but I think talking about it as early as possible in both people's best interest so that everyone can have realistic expectations. By now, I've come to see it as a basic part of getting to know one another.
Quote from: medo on August 25, 2009, 11:40:55 AM
Maybe I'm far from the right person to talk about this, but this is just my opinion. The man, that you want to see you as a woman, is good to be at least tolerant to the fact that you have a penis. In contrary, you could be really great person, but the mean who think woman = vagina, will see you as men, when he find out, you have penis and there will be no more love.
I dont think it's that simple..even a post op woman has to admit to not beeing a real woman to potential partners, and also face rejection because of that. The man that do not reject them, might also be indifferent about their genitalia. And of course there are a lot of T lovers, that seek a chick with a ****
I find that going into chat rooms is kind of a cool way to meet guys . Rooms that are title specific. You should always be careful though ... there are alot of wierdos out there.
annwyn ... awesome post, I agree with what you wrote. I also started at a young age, and have always dated mostly srtaight guys that are attracted to a effiminate kind of guy. Most were and older men. But i gave me the confidence to know that mene are attracted to me, even though I have a thingy between my thighs.
It kinda bothers me that people are up-in-arms when a social worker points out there are dangers involved in sex work, but all in agreement and virtually hi-fiving when another user says something completely offensive to another over online dating.
Quote from: Aegir on September 12, 2010, 04:40:13 AM
It kinda bothers me that people are up-in-arms when a social worker points out there are dangers involved in sex work, but all in agreement and virtually hi-fiving when another user says something completely offensive to another over online dating.
I think you have misread the discussion threads here. The social worker was applying her experience with sex workers and applying it to all non-op transsexuals. That was the offensive piece. While some non-ops are sex workers, the majority of us are not.
In terms of the on-line dating, the items I've heard expressed are the on-going debate (across the internet) whether a relationship, conducted entirely on-line, carries the same level of intimacy that one afk does. Is that what offended you?
Quote from: pheonix on September 12, 2010, 08:32:27 AM
I think you have misread the discussion threads here. The social worker was applying her experience with sex workers and applying it to all non-op transsexuals. That was the offensive piece. While some non-ops are sex workers, the majority of us are not.
In terms of the on-line dating, the items I've heard expressed are the on-going debate (across the internet) whether a relationship, conducted entirely on-line, carries the same level of intimacy that one afk does. Is that what offended you?
See though the social worker was saying that to a non-op sex worker, or at least said it after a non-op sex worker had just mentioned she'd had something like 150 partners in her lifetime and started having sex in her early teens.
And the offense wasn't because of the debate, but the rude tone employed by the user who many other users quoted to agree with.
no matter if lgbt, every1 can turn me on :D
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on April 02, 2009, 03:16:32 AM
I think a lot of it is trial and error. I'm still sort of figuring out what I like and don't like sexually. But I've also found that while it seems that on the surface you'd be at a disadvantage not having any srs--really it's a great way to filter out people, and make sure you're spending time with people who really want you for all of you. It's also important for me that the relationship not be completely tied up in sex either.
But I'd say more men and women are interested than you'd think.
And like i said in the other thread, Bisexuals tend to be a natural ally for the non-op. Just because their attraction is not tied to your genetalia, its tied to who you are. And if you have a penis where you should have a vagina, or vice versa, they tend to just roll with it.
Honestly, beautiful is beautiful. And who you are and how you act is about 90 percent of it.
Brilliantly said, Sarah. Rock on! My sentiment exactly.
Actually, I believe you are absolutely right that more men AND women would be interested in a nonop than one would believe. Heck, I'm in mid-transition, not exactly young but still am in good shape ... and get checked out by BOTH sexes. I'm sure that many of YOU get checked out too ... whether you realize it or not. What a hoot! Also, you can pretty much tell whenever somebody is checking you out in "that way." ;)
While I have absolutely nothing whatsoever against any of you on here who are into guys, and many of you are, my preference is for women. Sorry, but it just is ... always has been. Whenever I imagine a "kiss and cuddle" session with a guy, it does not appeal to me at all.
In a perfect world, I'd be majorly thrilled with a hot, sexy, smart ... bisexual woman ! ... who is way into how I am and how I look. Often times, I've considered a truly attractive nonop T-girl as a bisexual's dream come true. Well, hell ... I'd be thrilled to be that for a gal like I've just described here. While I'd prefer a GG, a postop T-girl would do just fine, thank you very much. Why the distinction? Because, no matter how deft the surgeon's touch and artful their craft, nothing works, looks or feels like "original manufacturer's equipment!" :D
Hoo, boy! Are some people gonna be miffed at me for sayin' that! Hey, I stand by that statement.
8) Lacey
California is just south of me ... bound to be a hot bi girl THERE! ... let's go!
David Lee Roth - California Girls (Music Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbhfI8f_Ek#)
Like, OMG! Even David Lee Roth is cute ... Oh, NO! What am I saying? ;)
I haven't done a whole lot of dating, but I've learn to appreciate the honesty is best policy for a couple reasons.
First, I tend to be suspicious of everyone until I hang out with a person for some time, (I've some very bad experiences with "friends" maybe more so than "lovers"), so I test waters by slowly bringing up issues about the LGBTQA community early on, and weed out people who are homophobic from my imaginary "possible date list." This goes even for acquaintances who I'm interested in becoming friends with.
Secondly, I've sometimes told people some time into dating, weeks or many months into dating, and it becomes a big thing of the other person thinking about it and then coming to a "I love you no matter what" decision, and then... oh man does that make the break-up part real hard. It made me feel indebted to a person, feeling like "they got past something that big for me, I should try to get over his/her insert thing I don't like here. One partner used it as a guilty things whenever we had a fight, and when I no longer felt guilty about it because he played the card so often, he started to try to humiliate me with the knowledge and it worked for three years. If I had been upfront I could have just said, "hey, you knew what you were getting into from the start jerkwad." Then again, that was my first real serious boyfriend so maybe I would have been stupid no matter what.
I think it's easier for me, because I have a large group of male friends I hang out with who know I identify as male. When a guy wants to make a move he'll usually consult the other guys to find out more about me, and if the guy would be uncool with the knowledge usually do a "nah, I think 'she's' interested in someone right now" or something like that for me. Also, I tend to know a lot of art school, or theater people and while they might not understand what being gender queer is all about, it tends to make them more open to the idea.
A note on the bisexuality thing. I think on the scale of 1 being completely straight and 10 being completely gay I'm an 8. I'm far more attracted to men, but occasionally there is a girl who turns my head. I consider myself a gay man, with bi-curious tendencies, but while I must admit I really do care what's between the legs, the real deal breaker is how masculine the person makes me feel. That and I am awful when it comes to having my ego stroked. I could be in a relationship for a long time when a girl knows just what to say, even if I could be a more attracted to her. Maybe that has way more to do with my near to non-existent self-esteem and inability to self-validate, but I'll leave that to my futre therapist to figure out.
Wow, so little acceptance for online dating. I met my boyfriend online. I'm across the street from him now. It's not for everyone, but it can work. Just do your research and you can avoid the internet predators more easily than you think.
Oh well, back to topic. I just thank God I have a bisexual boyfriend who doesn't care what parts are on me xD. If I weren't with him though, not sure. In my experience, men can be pretty violent when their sexual orientation is being questioned if you go after the wrong guy. I would personally avoid all casual dating and one night stands. I can't trust those people to be comfortable with my body. I really don't know what alternative I'd take. Since it already worked so well for me and so many others I know, I'd likely go to online dating again (but avoid doing long distance again XP). I'd also stick to guys I've been good friends with first. Basically everything I did to get to this wonderful relationship :'P. Oh God, I really hope I don't have to date again, I love this man too much @_@.
Quote from: Darth_Taco on January 13, 2011, 07:05:19 AM
Wow, so little acceptance for online dating. I met my boyfriend online. I'm across the street from him now. It's not for everyone, but it can work. Just do your research and you can avoid the internet predators more easily than you think.
Oh well, back to topic. I just thank God I have a bisexual boyfriend who doesn't care what parts are on me xD. If I weren't with him though, not sure. In my experience, men can be pretty violent when their sexual orientation is being questioned if you go after the wrong guy. I would personally avoid all casual dating and one night stands. I can't trust those people to be comfortable with my body. I really don't know what alternative I'd take. Since it already worked so well for me and so many others I know, I'd likely go to online dating again (but avoid doing long distance again XP). I'd also stick to guys I've been good friends with first. Basically everything I did to get to this wonderful relationship :'P. Oh God, I really hope I don't have to date again, I love this man too much @_@.
Hi Darth I agree.
I am very glad there is such a thing like online dating where I can be honest about myself from the start.
There are good guys amongst the so called "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s" too! But you have to use your intuition and commen sense wisely to filter out the "bad guys".
When I go out with friends in a bar or club I can sometimes feel uncomfortable when boys flirt with me... because I am not sure what it is they see (do they see/know I am a TS or do they not?).
I am in a position where I never can be sure, some dont see it while others see it right away. It really depends on the person... and also if that person has a special nose for detecting TS woman too ;)
love
Birgit
I know this thread is dead but I feel compeled to give my input.
Im a CIS male, and I consider myself straight. Although I would date a pre-op tgirl(if she was feminine enough). I know that there are many guys like m, this essentially because we do infact like penis, we just don't like the body that it is usually attatched to(male body). We kinda see you guys as hermaphrodites(futanaris).
Does this make me bi? I don't think so. But I realize that my sexuality is subjective.
Hi Crash...
There is a rather sci-fi word for me...and people that love me...
gynandromorph and gynandromorphiliacs lol something like that.... I hope I spelled it right...
I can give you a warning right away...
You are for many ts woman a confrontationalist because you let them know that you are able to love them as they are and BECAUSE they are TS woman, and not ordinary woman...
Most of them just want to be viewed and treated like woman, some are disgusted by the idea that anyone might like them, some even will be furious and call you gay because they think that once they have a vagina, only straight guys will date them... and when pre-op... its like gay sex etc...
In other words... most TS woman, from my experience are not really able to honestly look in the mirror and to be rational about themselves
Its not my favorite thing to look in the mirror lol, ik hate the damn thing :).... and its hard to be a girl like me...
but I am a non op/pre op... and am well aware of my situation and that there are men out there that do like me for what I am...and even for who I am.
But I dont like the guys that have a focus on my male parts and expect me to be masculine in bed... that goes to far for me....
I do like guys that are masculine and are not really interested in what I have down below, but aren't bothered by it either... I have learned that when a man is masculine enough, treats me respectfully and like a woman, makes love to me as if I was a woman, I dont mind him touching me etc... but that's about it....I will never top.
Most TS girls that do top, most likely do so for financial reasons (like escort).
There are TS girls out there of course that do like to top, but they are a minority... When you enjoy beeing topped one will probably end up dating ->-bleeped-<-s... instead of ts woman that are on hormones....
I am not in the dating scene... I want looooveeeee...
So thats the subject I am interested in, unfortunately its very easy to be someone's fantasy as a TS... but it's way harder to be their lover...for obvious reasons like: they have to come out of a closet even though it isn't exactly the gay one, there will always be people that think so.
And when you are just a fantasy of another man, when will you become a person for them, and one they want to love just the way she is...
Love is much harder to find...
But perhaps love is always rare
x
Birgit
Quote from: Birgitta on April 07, 2011, 04:46:59 PM
Hi Crash...
There is a rather sci-fi word for me...and people that love me...
gynandromorph and gynandromorphiliacs lol something like that.... I hope I spelled it right...
I can give you a warning right away...
You are for many ts woman a confrontationalist because you let them know that you are able to love them as they are and BECAUSE they are TS woman, and not ordinary woman...
Most of them just want to be viewed and treated like woman, some are disgusted by the idea that anyone might like them, some even will be furious and call you gay because they think that once they have a vagina, only straight guys will date them... and when pre-op... its like gay sex etc...
In other words... most TS woman, from my experience are not really able to honestly look in the mirror and to be rational about themselves
Its not my favorite thing to look in the mirror lol, ik hate the damn thing :).... and its hard to be a girl like me...
but I am a non op/pre op... and am well aware of my situation and that there are men out there that do like me for what I am...and even for who I am.
But I dont like the guys that have a focus on my male parts and expect me to be masculine in bed... that goes to far for me....
I do like guys that are masculine and are not really interested in what I have down below, but aren't bothered by it either... I have learned that when a man is masculine enough, treats me respectfully and like a woman, makes love to me as if I was a woman, I dont mind him touching me etc... but that's about it....I will never top.
Most TS girls that do top, do so for financial reasons (like escort)
Actually, I'm very masculine, I run, lift weights, and played football in high school.
I'm pretty masculine in bed, but I do like penis.
I view masculinity as something else entirely...
I rather have you knitting all day and be 100% top...with a masculine sexuality
then in the army wanting me to penetrate you,
What sexuality a guy identifies with does not interest me at all...
he can be gay for all I care...... as long as he is masculine and gives me a female role next to him...
Quote from: Birgitta on April 07, 2011, 05:10:10 PM
I view masculinity as something else entirely...
I rather have you knitting all day and be 100% top...with a masculine sexuality
then in the army wanting me to penetrate you,
What sexuality a guy identifies with does not interest me at all...
he can be gay for all I care...... as long as he is masculine and gives me a female role next to him...
If I were to date a non-op(like you for example) I'd still want to be masculine in bed, though sometimes I'd have the urge to be penetrated(orally, not anally).
Although when I date women, I'm "the man" in the relationship" persay.
I've had a lot of men interested in me and try to get dates. But my simple safety rule is I will only date bisexuals.
That doesn't mean they have to label themselves that way. There are many women who call themselves lesbians, who fit the bisexual range. I had one lesbian girlfriend who was insisting that I'm lesbian because I told her I'm attracted to masculine women and feminine men. She said, "Yes, that makes you lesbian."
The best moment is at the end of the first date because at that time the partner knows that they likes you enough and it's more easy for them to accept your status.
In the case of males dating a woman I think that there is an high chance, if he already likes you, that he won't run away.
Most men fantasizes about transgender sex already and they will be happy to experiment.
from a straight pre-op woman's perspective who's been going on dates with men quite extensively over the past 2 years I have made the following conclusions:
1. plenty of men are fine with it and a lot of them don't care as much as you'd think. If they're attracted to you as a woman this won't stop them from being intimate with you.
2. if you look hot a lot of men will hit you up (but that doesn't mean they'll date you though).
3. if a guy has a problem with you being trans, chances are he is going to reject you regardless if you're pre post or non-op.
4. being post op in dating terms can be a plus only if you're stealth or if you just want to have casual sex with men.
I'm engaged to a cisman. He's in London and I'm in Arizona (we've met five times) and we've been together for six years. We met each other on asexuality.org. We both used to consider ourselves ace but that gradually changed...so we never really were I guess. He knew I was FtM before we started dating...he accepts me for every part that I am, and I can't imagine myself with anyone else. Long distance is taking its toll on me though...I feel like I'm slowly caving in on myself..
LDR online can work but it takes two special people to make it work..
The topic of me getting top surgery is iffy. He says I shouldn't because I enjoy my chest too much. He won't admit it but he doesn't want me to get top surgery cuz...well..a bit of him is heterosexual. I'm still uncertain what to do with it.
I wonder how many usually-straight guys would be okay with dating non-op trans? From what I can gather, it's "more than you'd think, if they like you". Not "most", or even "a lot", just ... more than one might think?
Hi just thought id have a say ☺
I was born male grew up male and at about 7 years old i knew something was odd about me and although i lived a straight life and my ex and i have a child , after we split and i had been feeling more and more progressively odd i realized and decided to just come out as bi.
However vague choosing an orientation like that seems, i had to pick something.
I made the decision to tell my work people and some of my friends and my immediate family.
I decided to post this in what appears to be a dead thread because i read all 4 pages of it first.
I want people to see it from my point of view as a bi male.
I still like women the same as i always did as a straight person but i also like male genitalia
I dont really care about the rest of a mans body but im in 2 mind's about having some good gay sex, as in, i am craving it hardcore.
But what i really want is a transgender woman who is male to female non-op
because it should be quite clear that although i was the man, i am a girl trapped in a mans body who can be versatile in sexual role top or bottom but after many considerations and consultations with my doctor i have decides to stay the man and find a local non-op transgender woman for a relationship of wich i hope lasts the test of time.
Its of real concern to me reading things like 10 tips to dating a transgender woman.
Its virtually a list of why men are ->-bleeped-<-s.
So heres my dilemma if i keep reading list of do's and donts, i may as well give up on finding someone.
And ill leave that to your own interpretation of those webpages.
It bugs me that i read alot of comments saying " men only seem to care if i have a penis "and "some men reject me cause i do".
Some men are into non -ops because thats how they are wired in the brain and although it may seem they are only after your penis its because its important to them the same way its important to me, makes me no less capable of being a great partner or a genuine person.
I hope by explaining who and what i am first, helps explain why.
Quote from: Trino on August 05, 2017, 10:44:23 AM
Hi just thought id have a say ☺
I was born male grew up male and at about 7 years old i knew something was odd about me and although i lived a straight life and my ex and i have a child , after we split and i had been feeling more and more progressively odd i realized and decided to just come out as bi.
However vague choosing an orientation like that seems, i had to pick something.
I made the decision to tell my work people and some of my friends and my immediate family.
I decided to post this in what appears to be a dead thread because i read all 4 pages of it first.
I want people to see it from my point of view as a bi male.
I still like women the same as i always did as a straight person but i also like male genitalia
I dont really care about the rest of a mans body but im in 2 mind's about having some good gay sex, as in, i am craving it hardcore.
But what i really want is a transgender woman who is male to female non-op
because it should be quite clear that although i was the man, i am a girl trapped in a mans body who can be versatile in sexual role top or bottom but after many considerations and consultations with my doctor i have decides to stay the man and find a local non-op transgender woman for a relationship of wich i hope lasts the test of time.
Its of real concern to me reading things like 10 tips to dating a transgender woman.
Its virtually a list of why men are ->-bleeped-<-s.
So heres my dilemma if i keep reading list of do's and donts, i may as well give up on finding someone.
And ill leave that to your own interpretation of those webpages.
It bugs me that i read alot of comments saying " men only seem to care if i have a penis "and "some men reject me cause i do".
Some men are into non -ops because thats how they are wired in the brain and although it may seem they are only after your penis its because its important to them the same way its important to me, makes me no less capable of being a great partner or a genuine person.
I hope by explaining who and what i am first, helps explain why.
Trino,
Welcome to the site.
Not really sure what you are looking for here. You are welcome nevertheless. Almost sounds like you are not all of one side or another (male or female). I may be totally wrong. However there is a whole category here for non-binary.
A Cautionary Note:This is a public forum so please [remember when posting that
The Internet Never Forgets, and the various web crawlers and archival sites out may retain information that you post.
We cannot ensure that any information you share on the site will be protected from public view and/or copying or reproduction. This warning is also listed in the Terms of Service listed below.
If you give out personal information on Susan's you are responsible for any consequence.
I also want to share some links with you. They include helpful information and the rules that govern the site. It is important for your enjoyment of the site to take a moment to go through them
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) |
Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.
With warmth,
Jacqui
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on April 02, 2009, 03:16:32 AM
Bisexuals tend to be a natural ally for the non-op. Just because their attraction is not tied to your genetalia, its tied to who you are. And if you have a penis where you should have a vagina, or vice versa, they tend to just roll with it.
I found this true too.. It can be hard if you are not "obviously" TG/TS, where the person will need telling.
Quote from: napelover on September 15, 2016, 02:58:43 PM
Most men fantasizes about transgender sex already and they will be happy to experiment.
Amazing how many do. They also like the smooth look of no
<testes>!
Quote from: Annwyn on July 16, 2009, 03:52:47 AM
....Frankly... a penis is easier to mess with than a vagina. If I were a guy and could pick between a gg girl or a tgirl, I'd choose the latter because it's easier to give head that way
....I've had a bit of a new perspective to consider in the past few weeks as I've been doing escort work. All these guys who are without a doubt 100% heterosexual, willing to pay money to be with a woman with a member. I mean, frankly it's opened my eyes, and I'm seeing a lot of guys my age just to date now as well, who knows how many as it seems there's a new one everyday. I have a large selection of athletic, educated and creative young men to pick from eventually just by advertising the peculiar parts of my anatomy.
There are so many guys that love to give head to a tgirl or getting head from us! Being an escort means you get plenty of men who know what they want and what they are getting.
Moderator Edit: We encourage our members to clinical terms for body parts.
It so much has to do with how a potential relationship partner is concerned about what other people think. I've learned that most people are attracted to us however the issue is always about how they think other people may react to them dating a transsexual. In my opinion talking to them upfront about what kind of girl we are is necessary though. It's not advisable to distract them or to mislead them into thinking we have a vagina. In regards to intimacy, I have come to terms with the fact that I can appreciate and enjoy my genitals as much as do all of errogenous zones and accept it as another area for stimulation, it's a large clit and external ovaries so I enjoy them the way most females enjoy theirs. It's difficult at first to accept yet in reality it's really quite an easy to figure out concept.
Quote from: Annwyn on July 16, 2009, 03:52:47 AM
How could you possibly not kiss someone until age 20? :laugh: j/k
I lost my virginity when I was 11 O_O I think I had my first "gf" in kindergarten. I can't quite call it that, but I do know we had experimented quite a bit with each other's lips.
If you asked me how many people I've been with, I really couldn't even begin to tell you, or even give a ballpark estimate. I think I've dated maybe... 100-150 people, only including the relationships that lasted longer than two weeks.
Dang, you sound just like me :)
I have met a great deal of everyday straight men who loved me enough as a person, to not care about my genitalia.
What I have experienced is that if you pass as a woman and are attractive, men tend to care less about your operative status.
It definitely is possible to meet cishet guys as a non-op trans woman.
I myself am non-op and I have found that men in their mid to late 30s who already have children are the perfect partner for us, trans women. They have fullfilled their need to reproduce already and thus most of them are willing to be in longterm relationships with trans women, whatever your operative status is.
Subscribed to a couple dating sites and have been honest from the start in my profile: "non-op MtF, on HRT for years, want to find a decent man who sees me as more than an exotic hook-up."
I told the men right from the start that I do not see me not getting bottom surgery as making me lesser of a woman. My identity shouldn't be dependent on an external procedure. And I think at least some of them got the message. Because I got non-fetishizing, trans-friendly messages in my inbox for the first time in a long while.
Sometimes outlining your boundaries really helps.
My first time in this forum. I guess because I don't consider myself non-op but that is certainly open to interpretation.
I did have an orchie but not vaginoplasty. I had to go through the WPATH letters and stuff and it allowed me to change my birth certificate to female so I guess I consider an orchie GCS-lite to make up a word. :D
Anyway, since I still have a penis and not a vagina that is going to be a major issue with a lot of people regarding dating therefore I am very interested in this thread.
Thank you for starting it. :)
I just went back and read a few pages. Wow Debby you sure dug this out of the mothballs :D. Been awhile. Hopefully it will gain some interest. I would like to hear others experiences.
I have started dating again recently, by going to clubs on Friday evenings and having drinks at local pubs one day during the week, when I have a less busy day at work. I also put up a few dating profiles on a couple of websites.
I had a lot of messages but most only wanted a hook up which I wasn't interested in.
I made it clear in my profile that I'm looking for something substantial, not some "quick thing".
So, that's how I met this wonderful guy.
His name is Arne.
Arne and I hit it off pretty soon, first by messaging back and forth till late at night.
Then we went on our first date on Wednesday two weeks ago and had 3 more dates since then.
He admitted that he wasn't into penis, but likes me too much to throw away the special chemistry we seem to have...
I'm not interested in bottom surgery, apart from maybe an orchie down the road.
I wonder how it will work out between me and him.
He called me beautiful and breathtaking several times since we met.
We made out without a problem.
We even had our first time together already and he called it "magic" .
But I'm still worried that sooner or later he will miss the vagina and go back to a woman who has it.
He told me that " my womanhood is more than one body part " and that there are enough women who can't have vaginal intercourse for whatever reason but still manage to find a husband who loves them.
He wants to protect me all the time and text messages me a lot.
He however said that I have to get over my insecurity and fear of losing him.
I'm glad that I found a hetero cis man I match with in every single way. But sometimes the little voice in my head that says "I'm lesser than a woman with a vagina" becomes overwhelming.
Keep you updated.
Luv,
Debby
When I started dating my current girlfriend, I disclosed my non-op status fairly early. I would rather be single because they knew what they were getting into than be dating someone because they fell in love with someone who isn't me. I didn't tell my previous partner and I regretted it. They were dating a person who wasn't me. I say stick to your gut and be who you are, the right people will stay even when they know the complete you. Those who go weren't meant to be there in the first place