Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Topic started by: Brianna on April 06, 2009, 11:11:11 AM

Title: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Brianna on April 06, 2009, 11:11:11 AM
I'm wondering if I'm alone in whats happening, or preseve as happening. Before I came out and was still "faking it" as a guy I always considered myself bisexual. Since I came out and started transitioning (I'm still pre HRT), Living full time as a female. I've noticed that my orientation seems to be changing. I'm looking more at guys than I ever have before, and thinking more about them in terms of a romantic, or sexual partner. My interest in women, in that way, has waned considerably since I've began living fulltime. Have any of you been feeling this way this soon. I mean I know estrogen will have that effect.......not sure if thats part of the real me thats emerging or not.
I'm not complaining, or worried. I'm just curious.

-Bri
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: placeholdername on April 06, 2009, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: Brianna on April 06, 2009, 11:11:11 AM
I'm wondering if I'm alone in whats happening, or preseve as happening. Before I came out and was still "faking it" as a guy I always considered myself bisexual. Since I came out and started transitioning (I'm still pre HRT), Living full time as a female. I've noticed that my orientation seems to be changing. I'm looking more at guys than I ever have before, and thinking more about them in terms of a romantic, or sexual partner. My interest in women, in that way, has waned considerably since I've began living fulltime. Have any of you been feeling this way this soon. I mean I know estrogen will have that effect.......not sure if thats part of the real me thats emerging or not.
I'm not complaining, or worried. I'm just curious.

-Bri

I'm pretty sure that estrogen does not have that effect.  Plenty of women have estrogen in their system and have no interest in guys.  That said, it's definitely something that happens for some people so you're not alone in it.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 06, 2009, 01:28:45 PM
It is an awakening and acceptance of something that was always there before.  Hormones has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  If it did, then gay/lesbian people could be cured by taking hormones.  Doesn't work that way fortunately.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Brianna on April 06, 2009, 03:25:15 PM
I didn't mean to imply that estrogen/testosterone is any kind of cure for anything. That was merely what I was told would happen after being on HRT. Homosexuality is not a "disease" to be cured. Its just how people are born, and diversity is what makes life so awesome.

Ashley315, I kind of thought thats what was happening.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: sd on April 06, 2009, 04:26:10 PM
Sometimes the hormones allow you to unlock your true sexuality, but it will not change it itself. There are several people on here that have experienced similar, including myself. It doesn't happen for everyone though, some are/were very stuck in their sexuality.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 06, 2009, 07:01:19 PM
Quote from: Leslie Ann on April 06, 2009, 04:26:10 PM
Sometimes the hormones allow you to unlock your true sexuality, but it will not change it itself. There are several people on here that have experienced similar, including myself. It doesn't happen for everyone though, some are/were very stuck in their sexuality.

Stuck in their sexuality?  You can't be serious.  I'm not stuck in anything.  I'm proud to be a lesbian.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: imaz on April 06, 2009, 07:36:40 PM
Hormones had no effect whatsoever on my sexual orientation. Was Bi/Pansexual before and the same afterwards.

Perhaps the change that people mention occurs when their real sexuality is repressed in some way?
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Janet_Girl on April 06, 2009, 07:46:38 PM
Even though I call myself Pan.  I have always been straight.  And now after a year on HRT, I am still straight.  I enjoy men.

Just an awakening of my true self allowed that.

Janet

Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: sd on April 07, 2009, 01:34:46 AM
Quote from: Ashley315 on April 06, 2009, 07:01:19 PM
Stuck in their sexuality?  You can't be serious.  I'm not stuck in anything.  I'm proud to be a lesbian.
I mean that your sexuality is locked in, sorry, my brain decided to take a break. I definitely did not mean stuck in place like it should change, just that is it has a solid foundation and not going anywhere. Your sexuality was set in stone. My sexuality was set in ice cream, which melted and now floats around like a broken compass unsure of which way to point.


Quote from: imaz on April 06, 2009, 07:36:40 PM
Perhaps the change that people mention occurs when their real sexuality is repressed in some way?
That is my thinking. Some can unlock it by being accepting, some need help with hormones to unlock it.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Kimberly on April 07, 2009, 08:38:43 AM
Quote from: Janet Lynn on April 06, 2009, 07:46:38 PM
Just an awakening of my true self allowed that.
Rather similar I was. For me I realized I could actually show an interest in guys without getting my tail kicked. My interest in the female of the species does not seem to be as strong sexually, which annoys me greatly, but in the same the wanting/etc for a female's presence (etc) is still very much present. So as I see it, when I realized I was basically bi(or pan if you prefer that designation) when I initially started coming to grips with this condition is still accurate.

To clarify, I do not really consider this a "change" (although I identified as "straight" previous) rather simply accepting what I was "all along".

For what my thoughts are worth.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Genevieve Swann on April 08, 2009, 01:48:38 PM
Maybe being more comfortable as your true self has an effect on your sexual desires. Romance and caring hopefully has nothing to do with anothers gender.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: placeholdername on April 08, 2009, 02:10:12 PM
I think it's a large part of just opening your mind/self to a ways of thinking that may have previously been repressed.  I considered myself 100% attracted to girls only until a few months ago when I decided to tackle this trans issue head on.  I'm not even on hormones yet and my own preferences have started to change.  I'm still attracted to women, especially on the relationship level, but I can't deny an attraction to the idea of sex as a woman with a man.  But as far as a boyfriend goes, I'm not sold on the idea :P.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 08, 2009, 08:15:47 PM
I've never had a sexual attraction to a guy before HRT nor has that changed since.  I have always been able to say, "that guy is kinda cute, and I can see why someone would find him attractive."  but that is as far as it's ever gone.  I just don't find them sexually interesting.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: placeholdername on April 08, 2009, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: Ashley315 on April 08, 2009, 08:15:47 PM
I've never had a sexual attraction to a guy before HRT nor has that changed since.  I have always been able to say, "that guy is kinda cute, and I can see why someone would find him attractive."  but that is as far as it's ever gone.  I just don't find them sexually interesting.

I'm not sure if I'm really attracted to men or just have a fantasy about having someone take the 'male role' with me in sex (which I'm fully aware a woman can do as well...).  I'll probably try it once or twice and see what happens.

edit: oh, and I definitely still don't feel like the male body is attractive at all (if I did maybe I wouldn't feel so awkward about mine...) it's more of an attraction to how it could... affect me.  It's a really selfish perspective -- I have no interest in being... reciprocal.  If you know what I mean :P.



Quote from: Bryce2009 on April 08, 2009, 10:33:47 PM
Every so often I meet a woman and feel an amazing attraction towards her - not from the pov of the false male persona I used to wear, but from this inner feminine perspective I used to repress but now privately embrace.  The whole feel is different.  It's desire for a woman from a decidedly womanly perspective.  Sounds complicated, and I guess it is.  It is something new and unexpected.  But I have never felt any kind of attraction for men however.

My attraction to girls has always been from that feminine perspective and has always been part of how I dis-identify with men... or at least the stereotypical way that men are attracted to women (which from my experience most men do match pretty accurately).  I want to be with a woman, as a woman... it feels so much more natural to me to be that way, than to be with a woman as a straight man.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 09, 2009, 11:27:36 AM
Well, if you look at most gay/lesbian couples, there is usually one that does take on more of a "male role" while the other takes on a more "female role".
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Cyndigurl45 on April 09, 2009, 03:01:45 PM
Hormones change you sexually, I about fell on the floor laughing, sorry :) Now hormones have changed my secondary sexual characteristics and now that I present female I find it easier to have a relationship with men, I just couldn't do it presenting male, my hangup, in fact recently, the men I have dated are a lot of fun, I really like being treated like a lady. My orientation didn't change my ability to enjoy it has, Thank You HRT ;)
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 09, 2009, 06:50:58 PM
I'm not uncomfortable around men, in fact I find it rather cute when they try their best to get my attention and flirt with me.  That's just as far as it goes, it's cute, not sexy, not intriguing, and surely does not make me feel any more like a woman that my wife does.  I don't need a man to justify or complete my womanhood.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Butterfly on April 09, 2009, 07:46:03 PM
No change in sexual preference here.  I've always been straight.

Quote from: Ashley315 on April 09, 2009, 06:50:58 PM
I don't need a man to justify or complete my womanhood.

By saying this you're implying that all hetero gals like myself are only attracted to men to "justify" or "complete" our womanhood & that isn't true.  I kinda find it offensive to tell you the truth.  It's the same as saying that identifying as lesbian justifies or completes a lesbian trans woman's womanhood since only women and females can be lesbian.  See where I'm going with this?  you don't find men attractive because you aren't hetero & I don't find women attractive because I'm not lesbian.  That's sufficient . The rest is just semantics.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Jaimey on April 09, 2009, 08:19:34 PM
My two cents is that it's more about acceptance than the hormones themselves.  I think the more we feel like ourselves, the more we learn about ourselves.  :)

Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: placeholdername on April 09, 2009, 08:21:12 PM
Quote from: Jaimey on April 09, 2009, 08:19:34 PM
My two cents is that it's more about acceptance than the hormones themselves.  I think the more we feel like ourselves, the more we learn about ourselves.  :)

Agreed.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Jeannette on April 09, 2009, 08:28:33 PM
Quote from: Leslie on April 09, 2009, 07:46:03 PM
No change in sexual preference here.  I've always been straight.

Quote from: Ashley315I don't need a man to justify or complete my womanhood.

By saying this you're implying that all hetero gals like myself are only attracted to men to "justify" or "complete" our womanhood & that isn't true.  I kinda find it offensive to tell you the truth.  It's the same as saying that identifying as lesbian justifies or completes a lesbian trans woman's womanhood since only women and females can be lesbian.  See where I'm going with this?  you don't find men attractive because you aren't hetero & I don't find women attractive because I'm not lesbian.  That's sufficient . The rest is just semantics.

Agreed Leslie.  My heterosexuality doesn't make me better or more real than anybody else.  By the same token my lesbian sisters aren't better than me or more real than me  either :P  Why can't we ever discuss anything on this forum without upping ourselves or demeaning others? It's like you never win around here.  If you're heterosexual you're just trying to "justify" your womanhood.  If you're a lesbian you're just trying to "justify" your womanhood too.  Good grief, get real peeps.  We like what we like & what we like doesn't make us more or less than other peeps.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Jaimey on April 09, 2009, 08:34:53 PM
Quote from: Jeannette on April 09, 2009, 08:28:33 PM
We like what we like & what we like doesn't make us more or less than other peeps.

Amen, Sister! 
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Brianna on April 09, 2009, 09:04:48 PM
Quote from: Jaimey on April 09, 2009, 08:19:34 PM
My two cents is that it's more about acceptance than the hormones themselves.  I think the more we feel like ourselves, the more we learn about ourselves.  :)

That makes alot of sense. Before I came out as Trans, I absloutely hated myself. Since I came out, I've been actually giving myself compliments and really liking myself. Today I can say without any reservation, that I love my life and am very comfortable with myself.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Jaimey on April 09, 2009, 09:47:33 PM
Quote from: Brianna on April 09, 2009, 09:04:48 PM
That makes alot of sense. Before I came out as Trans, I absloutely hated myself. Since I came out, I've been actually giving myself compliments and really liking myself. Today I can say without any reservation, that I love my life and am very comfortable with myself.

That's really awesome!  I'm happy for you!
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 10, 2009, 02:52:39 AM
Quote from: Leslie on April 09, 2009, 07:46:03 PM
No change in sexual preference here.  I've always been straight.

By saying this you're implying that all hetero gals like myself are only attracted to men to "justify" or "complete" our womanhood & that isn't true.  I kinda find it offensive to tell you the truth.  It's the same as saying that identifying as lesbian justifies or completes a lesbian trans woman's womanhood since only women and females can be lesbian.  See where I'm going with this?  you don't find men attractive because you aren't hetero & I don't find women attractive because I'm not lesbian.  That's sufficient . The rest is just semantics.

Not what I'm saying at all, but it's been put to me that way before by hetero transwomen.  The age old, "why are you transitioning if you want to be with a woman?".  My point was that because I am trans and lesbian does not make me any less of a woman than a trans hetero woman.  I have run into many who feel they are more "justified" in their transition and are somehow more womanly than me, and that is simply not true.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Butterfly on April 10, 2009, 09:45:34 AM
Quote from: Ashley315 on April 10, 2009, 02:52:39 AM
My point was that because I am trans and lesbian does not make me any less of a woman than a trans hetero woman.

Exactly. That's quite obvious. People shouldn't be reminded of it.

Quote from: Ashley315 on April 10, 2009, 02:52:39 AM
I have run into many who feel they are more "justified" in their transition and are somehow more womanly than me..

That's silly. I hope it wasn't here. How does sexual orientation make anyone "more womanly"? ~shrug~  They should be cautious how they phrase their thoughts especially on a support site such as Susan's.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 10, 2009, 10:21:26 AM
I have run into it here. 
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Yvonne on April 10, 2009, 03:01:59 PM
QuoteThe age old, "why are you transitioning if you want to be with a woman?"

Lol :laugh: There are dumb people everywhere, I swear.  Not only stupid logic but also a subtle implication that sexual orientation can be chosen. Best thing is to stay away from stupid people like that. Not a lesbian myself but I'm against stupid people that can't differentiate between sex & gender
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Janet Merai on April 10, 2009, 04:25:51 PM
To help out here I feel like I am a lesbian and also open towards transsexuals or a girl with a male part down there.

My girlfriend is male physically as of now but that will change down the road.

In my mind I always pictured myself as a emo styled (non attitude wise) lesbian and 100% non-butch or male like, very feminine.

I prefer transsexuals (female with a male part) and woman alike but I have never found myself attracted to men, not once.
(I am not taking hormones or starting anything as of yet, but I will eventually)
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Ashley315 on April 10, 2009, 10:04:42 PM
The way I look at it, if you are lucky enough to find true love anywhere then who cares what package it comes in. (or with  ;D)  I was just lucky enough to find true love in the form of another woman who shares my passion for life.  My wish if for everyone to find that one person (or persons as the case may be) that truly makes them happy.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Jeannette on April 11, 2009, 05:15:14 AM
Agreed.  I'm one of those lucky women that's been able to find true love in the package of a tall, dark, buffed, handsome bloke :laugh: But no matter what your package of preference is, take good care of them, don't abuse them & learn to appreciate them because it isn't easy to find true love out there..doesn't matter if you're trans or not.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Butterfly on April 11, 2009, 07:31:16 AM
Quote from: Jeannette on April 11, 2009, 05:15:14 AM
Agreed.  I'm one of those lucky women that's been able to find true love in the package of a tall, dark, buffed, handsome bloke :laugh: But no matter what your package of preference is, take good care of them, don't abuse them & learn to appreciate them because it isn't easy to find true love out there..doesn't matter if you're trans or not.

Weird. Sounds familiar.  Having read your recent posts about Spain, I've got to ask, he isn't from Tenerife, is he?..a Latin lover from Spain?  All my boyfriends have been from Spain ~laugh~ I know what you mean though.  My bloke's exactly the same as yours, buffed, tall, dark skinned & like you say, I do take care of him & give him what he wants. ~wink~
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Janet Merai on April 15, 2009, 02:02:02 AM
I find it difficult to understand why most common trans wish to take a stereotype when their goal is to be their inner female of the part they never explored.

When I look at myself as a female, I see a path I have never taken before and wish to fulfill... it also does not mean having a man, woman, transgender or transsexual or any in-between people in my life, it simply means being myself.

This whole topic suddenly took a nose-dive into the "I will be me if I..." and you have NO idea who you even are.

I spent four, going on five, years looking at myself, thinking, taking my time and seeing what I like or dislike and I can tell you, I am SO glad I took that option before I thought of ANYTHING.
When you take a stereotype such as wanting to be a woman, that is FINE, but when you decide you have to do something everyone else is doing to justify your jealousy or being envious of someone, that just points you in the wrong direction.

Do I see myself as a straight girl who follows the bible or anything already done and set in this world?
No, I see myself as being original, making a difference and being myself both inside and out.
Will I be COMFORTABLE with myself as a female or was I male all along?

These were questions I asked myself YEARS ago and I found only one thing made sense, I do not see myself as a male and I see myself as a female being my own person.

What is the point in being a stereotype when you later decide to change your decision based on something else you like?
It really makes no sense if you think about the future based on that decision, you may not even like it.

The point is to explore yourself, think about it and see if it makes you happy.
Sometimes it can be a very hard road to tackle, but when you do it it is rewarding in the end.

I recommend searching yourself before you do much because it will take a LONG time to actually understand yourself and I have yet to finally find everything about myself.

Good luck :3
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Jeannette on April 18, 2009, 06:05:35 AM
Quote from: Leslie on April 11, 2009, 07:31:16 AM
Weird. Sounds familiar.  Having read your recent posts about Spain, I've got to ask, he isn't from Tenerife, is he?..a Latin lover from Spain? 

No he's a French lover, from Nice! :laugh:
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: VioletNight on April 18, 2009, 11:04:13 AM
Quote from: Janet Merai on April 15, 2009, 02:02:02 AMWhat is the point in being a stereotype when you later decide to change your decision based on something else you like?
It really makes no sense if you think about the future based on that decision, you may not even like it.
What if somebody likes something that just so happens to be a stereotype? Anyone can like whatever they like, whether it is common or not. And it is perfectly okay to change your mind. If down the line you decide you do not like it anymore, change. Then if you change your mind again, change again. Keep doing what you enjoy while you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: chrysalis on April 22, 2009, 04:17:19 AM
I each post of this thread and didn't see this mentioned so I'll throw this out there. Isn't it, at least theoretically, possible for a TV or fetishistic TV to adopt an attraction to men (assuming a male TV of course) if it is identified by the TV as a way of expressing femininity?

At least it seems to me that this is possible with fetishistic TV's, but I don't see all that big of a difference between TVs, and FTVs.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: placeholdername on April 22, 2009, 04:46:16 AM
I think theoretically, fetishistic TV is considered a 'paraphilic' sexual turnon to wearing opposite sex clothing, just as people develop all sorts of 'paraphilic' attractions to thing like nylon stockings or cheerleaders or whatever.  I think the whole idea of 'paraphilias' is pretty dumb -- trying to define what 'normal' sexuality is is like trying to define what a 'normal' person looks like, which is to say that you can't because everyone is way different.

Anyway, sexual orientation, yes.  I'm confused.  First I was like, I'm lesbian, and then I was 'open' to being attracted to guys (well, more specifically the idea of sex with a guy, as a girl).  But now I'm thinking, if I met a guy that I liked, would I be open to an actual relationship?  But I'm pessimistic about that because as far as relationships go, I've met very few guys who I would possibly consider worthwhile.  So then I was thinking -- how different is that from what any straight/bi girl faces?  So maybe it really doesn't matter to me what gender someone is if it works, it's more that I've met *WAY* more girls I'd want to date than I've met guys I'd want to date.

It's weird writing about this because for a long time I just totally shut out even the thought of being attracted to guys but now I say screw that.  I've even managed to stop myself from squirming during the gay scenes in the TV show Brothers and Sisters on ABC which, despite being super soap opera-y and predictable, has really helped me become more comfortable with seeing gay guys express physical/romantic affection.  It's not my thing personally but it feels good to not be such a homophobe :P.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Zelane on April 22, 2009, 06:42:29 AM
Quote from: Ashley315 on April 10, 2009, 02:52:39 AM
Not what I'm saying at all, but it's been put to me that way before by hetero transwomen.  The age old, "why are you transitioning if you want to be with a woman?".  My point was that because I am trans and lesbian does not make me any less of a woman than a trans hetero woman.  I have run into many who feel they are more "justified" in their transition and are somehow more womanly than me, and that is simply not true.

Sadly that comes from the (ignorant) belief that gays want to become woman in order to be with other men. Because if you like guys you are a woman right? And if you like girls you are a guy right?

Tell that to lesbians and gays. They will at least spit on your face.


Perhaps some Tgirls feel more justified on their transition because they are more close to the "standard" of the female role in society. You know being a hetero-nice looking-female.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: imaz on April 22, 2009, 08:01:54 AM
Quote from: Zelane on April 22, 2009, 06:42:29 AM
Sadly that comes from the (ignorant) belief that gays want to become woman in order to be with other men. Because if you like guys you are a woman right? And if you like girls you are a guy right?

Tell that to lesbians and gays. They will at least spit on your face.


Perhaps some Tgirls feel more justified on their transition because they are more close to the "standard" of the female role in society. You know being a hetero-nice looking-female.

Too right! :)

Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: chrysalis on April 22, 2009, 11:11:09 PM
Quote from: Ketsy on April 22, 2009, 04:46:16 AM
I think theoretically, fetishistic TV is considered a 'paraphilic' sexual turnon to wearing opposite sex clothing, just as people develop all sorts of 'paraphilic' attractions to thing like nylon stockings or cheerleaders or whatever.  I think the whole idea of 'paraphilias' is pretty dumb -- trying to define what 'normal' sexuality is is like trying to define what a 'normal' person looks like, which is to say that you can't because everyone is way different.

Well you can still look at it as a behavior instead of placing it in the context of the behavior of the majority. Basically don't refer to it as "deviant" sexual behavior, and just call it all behavior.

In any case what I'm proposing is that an FTV can adopt into their schema of turn ons etc. more than just clothes, but also behaviors, and even attitudes. My understanding is that if it can be perceived, or more specifically believed to be perceived, then it can be fetish-ized.

The core of my question though is if it can happen for FTV's, then can it happen for TV's as well? Assuming it can I think it opens up a lot of interesting possibilities by further eroding the current borders in the trans community. What I think I see is a form of acquired GID (you know like the old joke, "What's the difference between TV & TS?"), as opposed to that which one is born with. Of course there are differences between them, but it seems like they would share common emotional ground, while differing in their method of arrival.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: placeholdername on April 22, 2009, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: chrysalis on April 22, 2009, 11:11:09 PM
Well you can still look at it as a behavior instead of placing it in the context of the behavior of the majority. Basically don't refer to it as "deviant" sexual behavior, and just call it all behavior.

In any case what I'm proposing is that an FTV can adopt into their schema of turn ons etc. more than just clothes, but also behaviors, and even attitudes. My understanding is that if it can be perceived, or more specifically believed to be perceived, then it can be fetish-ized.

The core of my question though is if it can happen for FTV's, then can it happen for TV's as well? Assuming it can I think it opens up a lot of interesting possibilities by further eroding the current borders in the trans community. What I think I see is a form of acquired GID (you know like the old joke, "What's the difference between TV & TS?"), as opposed to that which one is born with. Of course there are differences between them, but it seems like they would share common emotional ground, while differing in their method of arrival.

I think I agree with you, but I think we should stop using terminology that doesn't mean anything.  TV (at least now) simply refers to the act of cross-dressing, although in the professional community the word TV has fallen out of favor and people pretty much use the word 'Cross-Dressing' instead, since it means the same thing and has less negative connotations associated with it.  FTV specifically refers to an intense sexual arousal in response to CDing or the thought of CDing.  According to wikipedia:

"There are two key criteria before a psychiatric diagnosis of "transvestic fetishism" is made:[1]

   1. Recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviour, involving cross-dressing.
   2. This causes clinically significant distress or impairment, whether socially, at work, or elsewhere."

Which is the dumbest thing ever because I think many of us (but not all of us) technically fit into that description.  I definitely have intense sexual fantasies involving being desssed as a woman (at least at the start... :)) but of course my GID encompasses more than just that.

So we should really drop using the term TV here, since that falls under CD.  FTV is one of those archaic diagnoses that hopefully will eventually be removed from the DSM/whatever, like homosexuality.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Dorothy on April 25, 2009, 05:34:28 PM
Interesting... if that theory were correct, would it not make sense that all women who've gone through menopause or have had their ovaries removed and now lack estrogen turn lesbian? in the same turn, as men age and testosterone levels drop will they all become gay?  Mones changing people's sexual orientations is a trans myth. I think people are born with their sexual orientation intact just like the colour of their hair & eyes.

Sometimes peeps sexual orientation appears to change, but what's really happening is that their true sexuality's finally emerging, kinda of when you're coming out of the closet & denial's no longer a part of your life.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Barbara on April 25, 2009, 10:09:08 PM
when i i'm dressed and out in a bar or lounge i am gay (i want men).when i am in guy mode(ie.. work or whatever), i feel straight.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Michelle. on April 25, 2009, 11:56:44 PM
As Elton John said,  "I'm bi-sexual, whenever I want sex I have to buy it."
No, I don't really buy sexual services. But at this point in my journey I don't know where I'll end up as far as sexuality goes.

OK... I'll be "straight" with everyone, well actually thats I'm a straight, but not as an arrow, girl putting on hold looking for a man.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: imaz on April 26, 2009, 05:17:37 AM
Never had any change in sexual orientation whatsoever. Always been Bi with a preference for girls.
Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: chrysalis on April 27, 2009, 04:59:21 AM
Quote from: Ketsy on April 22, 2009, 11:27:35 PM
I think I agree with you, but I think we should stop using terminology that doesn't mean anything.  TV (at least now) simply refers to the act of cross-dressing, although in the professional community the word TV has fallen out of favor and people pretty much use the word 'Cross-Dressing' instead, since it means the same thing and has less negative connotations associated with it.  FTV specifically refers to an intense sexual arousal in response to CDing or the thought of CDing.  According to wikipedia:

"There are two key criteria before a psychiatric diagnosis of "transvestic fetishism" is made:[1]

   1. Recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviour, involving cross-dressing.
   2. This causes clinically significant distress or impairment, whether socially, at work, or elsewhere."

Which is the dumbest thing ever because I think many of us (but not all of us) technically fit into that description.  I definitely have intense sexual fantasies involving being desssed as a woman (at least at the start... :)) but of course my GID encompasses more than just that.

So we should really drop using the term TV here, since that falls under CD.  FTV is one of those archaic diagnoses that hopefully will eventually be removed from the DSM/whatever, like homosexuality.

Terminology is the biggest headache when it comes to any of this because nobody can agree on anything and it makes it very hard to even communicate an idea when we can't even agree which words mean what. This is compounded by the fact that our understanding of this area of human thought and behavior is rapidly expanding so it is hard to draw conclusions when the conclusions themselves are being perpetually rewritten.

I dislike the word ->-bleeped-<- as much as you, but I use it here in its classic sense for the sake of argument, and also out of laziness. Personally I think there is a difference between FTVs (FCDs if you will) and TVs/CDs. While on some level a Transperson feels more correct when having sex in the appropriate role (as you pointed out), the description of FTV you quoted, as I understand it, refers to something different.

FTV is not an I.D. disorder, like your GID is. So while technically yes you fit into that category, you also mention that your GID encompasses much more than that, and that is where the difference arises between you and an FTV. There is obviously some of the inevitable overlap in groups, however that doesn't make FTV archaic (aside from having TV in the title), just rather out of place when grouped with I.D. disorders.

The DSM is always a tricky read because they use very small definitions which end up making the disorders described seem very wide in scope.


Anyway...

To drastically simplify my question I'm asking what the differences are between a TV/CD and TG, or even a TS. The follow up question is are these states fixed, or are they subject to change throughout life?

I've been mulling over the implications of a 'yes' to the follow up question, & here again is that question I've been pondering for weeks, but unable to find a solid answer to...

If these states are subject to change, then is that to say that a CD effectively can become clinically indistinguishable from a TG or TS?







Title: Re: Change in sexual orientation ????????
Post by: Jaimey on April 27, 2009, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: chrysalis on April 27, 2009, 04:59:21 AM
If these states are subject to change, then is that to say that a CD effectively can become clinically indistinguishable from a TG or TS?

I think it comes down to self awareness more than a change in identity.  I think through cross dressing, one can discover that they are TG or TS.  Which I suppose answers the original question as well.  Instead of sexual orientation changing, it's our awareness of our sexual preferences that can change.