I've been a long time reader on these forums, but this is my first post. So, let me start by giving a quick introduction then we can move to my main question at hand. I'm currently a 22 year MtF, and I have a very loving and supporting family (well, those who know about my "condition"). I haven't started hormones yet, but I plan on doing so after I move and talk to the therapist and all that good stuff.
Alright! Finally, the topic as hand - I've always been slightly curious as to what most MtF individuals picked as a profession. Do the jobs we choose tend to be more neutral, feminine, or masculine?
I've currently working a low wage job to get me through college. I'm a sophomore at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and studying Geology. We actually have a small museum dedicated to the geology department. To the left side in the museum we have a mineral and rock collection, and to the right side their is a collection of fossils and all that kind of stuff - I'm not really into paleontology. We also have an actual seismograph, although there is not much activity in Wisconsin; we do rarely measure the stray p and s-wave from other regions of the continental United States.
My friends don't appreciate my knowledge of the geological activities of the Earth and find it rather annoying when someone mentions something relating to geology and I go off on a three hour lecture on why I find a rock interesting. Also, I have a quirky habit of examining individual rocks from driveway gravel, and I've been known to lick a random rock or two - actually, I've lost count as to how many I've licked.
I found Geology to be one of those professions that falls into the gray area of the gender spectrum. I've seen several females, as well as males in my geology classes.
Sorry, that turned out to be more of an introduction, than focusing my question at hand. Looking back at my post I can see why people find it annoying when I talk about Geology - I get so off track. Regardless, please feel free to respond, I don't bite. In fact I'm a really gneiss person.
Hi Kyla,
Well let's see. Auto mechanic, parts sales counter person, store manager auto parts, truck driver, computer programmer, retail sales home improvement. Currently cashier and re attending college.
And of course...
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Janet
I am too busy with school to work but I hope to be a philosophy teacher when this is all over. I have only had one female philosophy teacher but I am pretty sure that there are plenty of them out there. I wouldn't worry too much about having a feminine job, you like what you like.
Scientist
I've always followed what I want to do.
Very pig headed. Does that mean I'll get swine flu?
:laugh:
Cindy
Oh and welcome :-*
Currently studying to be a mechanical engineer. Looking to make my way through the motorcycle industry and eventually start my own company.
I am a armoured crewman, I crew a tank basically. This job was all about denial but I'm too close to my pension to quit now. Luckily(?) for me in Canada you can be TS and stay in the military.
Hi Kyla,
Welcome to Susans.
So gniess of you to drop in. Geology is cool. I ventured towards IT when I went back to school, but geology has always been a subject of interest to me.
I am the proverbial hack of all trades. No kidding, I've done agriculture for 10 years, composites manufacturing for 12, warehousing, resturaunting, cabbie, residential constuction and studied electronics in the Naval Reserve.
My goal is to start an organic self-sustained greenhouse business where I can supply nicey-nice produce (esp. tomatoes) in Febuary. Oh, and flowers too.
imagine whirled peas,
;)
when I was younger i joined the navy but my vision cut me out and I ended up in a cycle of factory work.
in 2001 I went back to college after a layoff to get a teaching degree (which suits my skills) but I was still repressing.
Now it's pretty much useless since transwomen are not exactly at the top of the list for teaching jobs.
I'm thinking about looking into nursing (mainly because of the availability of jobs and the sense I get that maybe it'd be more open to a girl like me) but i also have a feeler out to someone for advice about maybe perusing a career in counseling...in either case it will take considerable good fortune to pull off the financing.
I wonder what it takes to get trained to work in a laser hair clinic? Might be some good fringe benefits there...;)
I am a Recording Engineer and Producer. Im also a musician and hope to someday release my own material. Luckily my engineering work more than pays the bills so I can continue writing my album part time. Music is my life. I used to build and repair computers too, but its not something I enjoy enough as a career.
Im not sure that you could classify my job as male, female, or neutral. I do know that there arent enough women at the console in recording studios. Hopefully that changes. :angel:
Studying to be a physicist, or at least to get my PhD in the field. It's not exactly a field permeated by an aura of warmth and femininity. In the U.S. it's about 90% men and 10% women in the field. The high prevalence of women in the related fields of chemistry and mathematics makes it clear that there is no reason but social custom that women don't go into physics, not ability or interest in the type of subject, but just the notion that women don't do physics. The field has a strongly masculine vibe that is a little hard to describe, but that has always been a bit of a problem for me. I've depended for years on female classmates to give me the kind of studying environment where I could learn better. Of course, in the many classes I've had with few or no other women, I've just had to work with the guys or fend for myself. It works fine, but it's not the kind of collaboration I loved when I got into the field at the prodding of some female friends in the field.
Hi Kyla, welcome to the forums. There's lots to read and some really interesting discussions going on right now actually. It was a great time to join in!
Per your question, I'm a psychology student. I actually went to school to study nursing, but took a psych course as an elective and was hooked and changed majors that term. I know psychology is considered a soft science, but considering we are the people who pick up the pieces when Bubba beats the crap out of his wife or molests his kids, I don't really think the term "soft" brings up the right image. It's a field dominated by women, sure, but it's a field requiring intuition, empathy and emotion, and in our society those are deemed feminine traits.
Currently, I manage an Apple Store. I've drifted though bars, call centers, computers, retail, light factory work, other things. I'm 31.
Managing some computer store isn't really my dream, but I'm good at it, & it pays reasonably well for now. I have a B.S. in psychology, & am working toward getting my M.S. in counseling, with the intention of eventually working with other trans people to help with their transitions.
Hum.. Well I've been a goat and llama herder, love goats by the way. Ok I'm weird too. But I started out in mechanical engineering way way back in guy mode and it still pays the Bills all these years later. I'm a PE but not at all your typical engineer. Oddly enough I never was. OH and just to be different I also am a CMT. You will not find many enginners, who are also trained massage therapists. Plus I mess around with boats, because I love nature and yes it's true I love Sail boats.
Beni
Hi Kyla :) I am a self-employed artist who used to be an electrical engineer/corporate manager until it all went to hell and I decided to follow my heart. The only reason I went the corporate route in the first place was because I didn't think I could make a living as an artist. Well, I've been doing this for some time now and make about the same income as I did in the corporate world, but I am a thousand times happier and more fulfilled. I think it doesn't matter what you do so much, as it does loving what you do. Oh, and Geology rocks! :laugh:
For my transition I work as salesman and butcher (it was Moms idea) after my transition I work as:
- Nurse for old people
- Telephonist
Now I have no job. It is hard to find a job if you are 56 years old.
Wow I feel kind of behind. Everyone is in fields that require lots of math and stuff. IM a paramedic (A.S). in Paramedicine and Registered Nurse that's getting ready for medical school (science classes are kicking my butt though)
My title is Life Coach but what I do is counsel people with severe and persistant mental illness and co-occuring substance abuse. I've been working in mental health since transition. My academic background is in economics and I worked as a researcher and statistical analyst in a trial consulting firm and later as a securities broker, some stocks but mostly bonds. My earlier work was a little weighted towards males, my current work is overwhelmingly female, pretty gay, too.
I plan on getting a masters in clinical psych (MFT), continue working in the same field and hopefully the same institution.
Everyone is in fields that require lots of math and stuff.
That's probably because this is the Internet, and the Internet is disproportionately populated by nerds. ;D
Also, for me, I was a social outcast, not accepted by either the girls or the boys when I was little. Math was something that didn't require any social skills. Sad but true. I like being good at math, but I think I would have prefered a somewhat happy childhood. :-\
Biology major here. Hope to go on to grad school and eventually do some field work in South America or Oceania if I'm very fortunate.
I am a Aerospace engineer, now working towards a phd.
does the fact that so many of us are either engineers or mathematicians/ physicists , seem at all odd to anyone else?
my university has around 30k students but we only have around 120 students in the AE dept. I would expect to see similar proportions amongst us. apparently this is not the case.
I would love to hear others thoughts on why this might be.
Educationally, my field is Theoretical Sociology. Emphasis on potential ramifications and language effects on dialog of late, originally it was literally all about magic (my first dis was on such in the modern world).
Practically, its been a gazillion things ('cause Sociology for me is a pretty lonely thing and I prefer higher personal interaction).
Right now its advocacy.
Electronics Technician by trade. A gender neutral occupation. Usually requires little physical effort but can be very demanding on my remaining brain cell.
Post Merge: June 02, 2009, 05:06:58 AM
Kyla, if you like geology you would love it here on the Wasatch Front. The Wasatch mountain range is one of the very few in north America that is still growing. Only a few millimeters a year but growing. However it's on a very unstable fault and could come crashing down at any moment.
I did my PhD in rocket fuels and then worked in that field before going into Manufacturing Management, Technical Service and Manufacturing Improvement.
I now have my own business which does 6 Sigma, Lean Manufacturing and Management Standards implementation.
Buffy
welcome!
And I make computers stop crying after they have been so cruelly abused by the savage tribe called the L-user. The things they will do to technology! For systems that find it hard to open up again I crack them open so that they can reveal their secrets to me. This actually combines with other fields especially since I have taken an interest in quantum cryptography.
Therapist.
Not employed right now for medical reasons but in the past I spent time in the Army infantry, got a degree in music, did some factory work, was a bouncer (yikes), a bounty hunter, a police officer, a firefighter, an EMT and a quality control specialist. *shrug*
I haven't been on since I originally posted the topic, but I'm glad to see a lot of people are responding.
I started this topic to see if there was perhaps a trend in what we pick for our professions. Jesslee pointed out that we tend to focus on professions relating to engineering and math.
At one point in time, we were all genetic males, and I recall hearing a saying that men are better at math and science, where women excel at verbal skills and English. Being the scholarly student that I am, I looked into this and found that the results of this are not significant. That being said, there is more of a deviation between races, than sex. In fact, Jo Boaler, an associate professor of mathematics education at Stanford University stated, "differences in performance between males and females have shrunk to nearly insignificant levels on most standardized tests". (the full article can be read here: http://ed.stanford.edu/suse/faculty/displayFacultyNews.php?tablename=notify1&id=276 (http://ed.stanford.edu/suse/faculty/displayFacultyNews.php?tablename=notify1&id=276)).
Perhaps it has more to do with the Gender Identity Disorder that we all share. There is not enough research regarding this topic to back up my crazy theory, but I believe that it might be significant enough to approach as a possible reason - Then again, maybe it is just a coincidence.
Regardless of which, I thank everyone for the warm welcomes and a little background information :)
Quote from: Kyla on June 02, 2009, 02:27:41 PM
Perhaps it has more to do with the Gender Identity Disorder that we all share. There is not enough research regarding this topic to back up my crazy theory, but I believe that it might be significant enough to approach as a possible reason - Then again, maybe it is just a coincidence.
Just curious, but for most who transsex we wind up as men and women, why would there be any more of a significant difference for us than there would be for other men and women?
Jesslee pointed out that we tend to focus on professions relating to engineering and math.
Well, those that responded to the survey tend that way, but that is nothing like a viable sample or anything.
Nope for that probably about 1,000 responses would be needed. ;)
Perhaps, but there are factors that can be seen very clearly right from the start, like the fact that the poll is only open to those with a computer and internet connection.
You mean there are people out in the world who do not have a computer and an internet connection? There are places where there are people but not advanced technology? I cannot fathom the though, even in Bangkok there were Internet gaming places on every block. :D ;D ;) :P
Well considering the rate of unemployment in the Trans community, I'd say its quite a few people. Those gaming establishments, like the internet cafes, take money.
To Tekla:
It's true that this small question wasn't done in controlled conditions or in an situation that could prove to be of any significance. I'm not trying to do any formal research, but I do find it odd that there is a trend in how people have decide on their profession. I simply tried to explain what I saw occurring, a hypothesis if you will.
To be honest, it would be rather difficult to perform formal research into the investigation of this trend. I suppose I could use develop a test similar to the MMPI, which uses empirical keying to determine different types of disorders; it also boast validity scales, which is a huge plus. Alteration would obviously be required, but it might be feasible. However, not only is psychology not my field of study, but I don't have the time or effort to commit to something like that at the moment. Right now, the data gathered this way may prove to be useful to see an emerging trend in a set social group.
You are correct, that the data here is only a small portion of the population of MtF. However, usually it's trying to obtain a theory that can apply to one group, and then testing to see if it applies broadly to the over all larger group. It's easier to take small steps at a time. As I stated before, I wanted to see if a trend occurred, but I also asked because of curiosity.
Don't take anything I say to be of any significance, I just like to ponder, propose questions, and simple think about what makes the world go around. It's the curse of being a in a field were theories are constantly questioned and new ways of thinking are constantly being proposed.
Nichole:
Technically we don't start out as women or men, we start out as the reverse, and it is possible that this could impede our thinking, or perhaps change the way we think. It's difficult to say, and like many hypothesis, is open to debate and question. I just stated this loosely to try to articulate why a trend might be occurring. This might also be a sign of nothing more than a coincidence, which given the small group that answered is a possibility.
To summarize:
I'm just one person, I have no expertise in the area of behavioral psychology and my hypothesis is just based on pure speculation. Remember that gravity was discovered by observing an apple fall and questioning why this happens - it is possible to find answers to life in the smallest of objects, in this case a group. However, my psychology professor warned me about over analyzing behaviors and patterns. In other words, I'm more than likely wrong.
I'll go back to licking my rocks now...
Quote from: Kyla on June 02, 2009, 03:55:51 PMTechnically we don't start out as women or men, we start out as the reverse, and it is possible that this could impede our thinking, or perhaps change the way we think. It's difficult to say, and like many hypothesis, is open to debate and question. I just stated this loosely to try to articulate why a trend might be occurring. This might also be a sign of nothing more than a coincidence, which given the small group that answered is a possibility.
There is an interesting related topic here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,60467.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,60467.0.html)
1) This is the Internet. Yes, there are lots of geeks on the Internet. The over-representation of mathy-sciency-engineery type people is an issue that comes up frequently on every non-math-science-engineering forum on the Internet. It has nothing to do with whatever the group is.
2) Larry Summers is a moron. There are no significant differences in aptitude, or at least not one shred of real evidence, but only differences in culture and expectations of men and women. A friend of mine just posted a link on the Facebook to a news report on a study showing that Larry Summers is a moron. Most people already knew that ... I hope.
3) Those differences in culture are significant to this discussion -- being encouraged when we were "boys" to go into more technical fields while other girls, recognized as such, are discouraged. That's not universal, but overwhelmingly common still today. I see it over and over again. I believe that parental influence is the biggest factor.
Union electrician, foreman, superintendent, project manager, estimator, CADD designer. It took me 34 years to do all those different jobs but they were all in electrical construction.
Since I transitioned I've been warned "accidents can and will happen" if I ever come onto a job site.
Julie
Electrical engineer, mathematician, software engineer... and I would have gladly traded those if I had been able to make a living in music. I have classical piano training since age 8, and played keyboards in a band that never went anywhere.
But I would postulate that the engineering fields are similar to the arts... we make things, create things, assert ideas and notions, and see the world outside of the box. We are inventors, creators, makers of things that sometimes turn the world upside down and on its ear.
I dont see anyting gender specific in that... ;)
I don't know, I've worked for engineering firms, and I've done commercial performance art for over 30 and I don't see much overlap, except techies are techies in both places. Performance art has a self centered component to it that requires a look at me all the time attitude rather than a project based team approach.
All my education was in fine art Photography, although except for a few catalogues, weddings and prints I never used it other than for my own satisfaction. As I moved to a rural place the only work was carpentry and fishing, I did both.
I took at shot at corporate life for several years as a facility manager and construction supervisor in the US and Caribbean. The travel became an issue so I began building homes and selling them. Then I got MS and knew I had to find a less physical profession. I am now a property manager at a resort and I like it.
Quote from: tekla on June 03, 2009, 10:30:14 AM
Performance art has a self centered component to it that requires a look at me all the time attitude rather than a project based team approach.
It depends on what the engineering environment was like. In a Dilbert-esque world, I would concur. But I've also worked in a skunkworks kind of environment with some incredibly brilliant people who behaved like rock stars -- except for the part about getting laid! :D
We often referred to those types as "cowboy coders" in the IT world or the "lone engineer" in the electrical/mechanical side. And FWIW, everybody I ever jammed with or played in a band with, without exception, was either an engineer or a programmer (or both like myself). We wrote an incredible amount of music, what did us in was the inability to grasp the business (ruthless) side of the music world. Engineers, like musicians, tend to make very poor business people.
BTW, some of the coolest stuff I ever worked on was done in a skunkworks fashion. In cubicle hell, where I currently reside, Im lucky if I get to spend even 50% of my time actually architecting or implementing. Its 100P, must be time for another meeting... ::)
Well if I told you, I'd have to kill you. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg249.imageshack.us%2Fimg249%2F4458%2Fwinkrm9.gif&hash=7072f715adac877b485d061d84602bb6f9b91556)
OK, sorry about the corny old joke. I have 3 degrees in widely varied subjects.
Welcome to Susan's, Kyla!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
P.S. Reunite Gondwanaland!
And FWIW, everybody I ever jammed with or played in a band with, without exception, was either an engineer or a programmer (or both like myself). We wrote an incredible amount of music,
Oh I see your problem, its obvious. You were under the illusion (delusion) that somehow this is all about talent. Talent, as anyone who can watch Utube and any number of 8 year olds shred knows - is a dime a dozen, if not a penny a hundred. Like some famous player once told me after watching one of the wonder kids wanking off on Utube "It's a long way from the bedroom to 90 minutes on stage." And at that, its not about talent, its about STARTIME! And you have to have someone who can project personality (and it does not have to be their personality, usually better if its not) but some sort of alter ego, the way Beyonce channels Sasha Fierce to hundreds, thousands, and if your real good, to tens of thousands of people all at the same time. To stand there and in the words of Dreamgirls project "You're gonna LOVE ME!" to each and every person there. And have them really, love you. Not as easy as it sounds. (Nor is coming down from that, but that's another story.)
Lots of the engineers I worked with and taught had a hard time projecting enough of a personality/attitude to get a ham sandwich after waiting in line for 10 minutes. And they were not slouch engineers either, we built some of the largest construction projects in the 20th Century, and did pretty well at it. The students were top drawer too. Still, not much in terms of a party if you know what I mean. Kind of like when I was down at the Google deal last week and one of my female friends said to me "These guys are all staring" and someone else piped up, "They've never seen a girl, well not in 3-D, before."
Quote from: teklaOh I see your problem, its obvious. You were under the illusion (delusion) that somehow this is all about talent.
I asked one of the folks who works for me, he made it much further than most. Released a couple albums and played moderate sized venues before quitting. He absolutely concurs with you, this is what he said:
QuoteThe famous session player Tony Levin (most famous for his work on stage with Peter Garbriel) had some good thoughts on this in his book...
"There's a switch that goes on for some people when they get in the spotlight. Levin played on John Lennon's Double Fantasy record and said that the moment he worked on camera with Lennon, he got it. There's something that only one in million people have when they're in front of the crowd... John Lennon wasn't even a great guitar player, or for that matter even the most talented Beatle. But he had that ability to grab people by the nuts when he was on point."
"If you've got it, you need to know how to project it; whether it's your personality or not.."
Levin noted that when he met Peter Gabriel, he was a skinny, introverted weirdo that could bearly make eye contact with anyone in the room... But once that camera went on...different story.
He continued on to say "You have to have an alter ego to consistently perform...I mean, who in their right mind NEEDS that kind of attention? In my case, it's why I stopped performing. It's the same reason you don't drink."
"Performing is the same as a drug in my book. Monster high, giant crash (I would get really depressed after a show) and you'll do almost anything to keep climbing that mountain."
And here I always thought of Tony Levin as that awesome bass/stick guy who played with Robert Fripp.
And I think he is right, there is a famous story about Marylin Monroe that runs along the same lines.
There are also wonderful stories about her walking around in New York completely anonymous - she was able to douse that light (by magic, I'm convinced) so that nobody would ever look at her and say, 'That's Marilyn Monroe'. She was walking with a friend through the crowded streets of Manhattan - she had a headscarf on, no makeup, she was wearing jeans, sneakers - and completely disappeared into the crowd. The friend was amazed. This was the most famous most desired woman in the world. How did she turn that OFF so completely? They discussed it a bit. And then Marilyn said, with a wicked grin, "Want to see her?" Meaning: Marilyn with a capital M. I love that she referred to her persona in the third person. The friend said, yeah, let's see "her";. So Marilyn took off the headscarf, and - without any makeup - any fluffing of hair - anything external - she turned on the light inside. And there "she" was. Marilyn Monroe, walking in the grime of 9th Avenue. And slowly - people noticed - and came over - and asked for autographs - and the whole thing ended with a mob scene - Marilyn surrounded by throngs.
"Want to see her?"
That's a movie star. It can't be taught. Whether it was a small layer of fuzz on her face that picked up the lights ... or whether it was something magical within ... that's the key to her mysterious appeal.
My original career was in environmental and wildlife biology, which I enjoyed professionally for almost a decade, then I drifted into outside sales for a few years, owned/operated a smallish distributing business in MD, VA for a dozen years, Various and sundry other sales jobs, small business development, and now at 58, I'm in a retail blind alley as an older woman doing commission sales. it's all good...
Bev
Quote from: Miss Bev on June 03, 2009, 11:38:33 PM
My original career was in environmental and wildlife biology, which I enjoyed professionally for almost a decade, then I drifted into outside sales for a few years, owned/operated a smallish distributing business in MD, VA for a dozen years, Various and sundry other sales jobs, small business development, and now at 58, I'm in a retail blind alley as an older woman doing commission sales. it's all good...
Bev
I have to admit this piqued my curiosity - what exactly is environmental and wildlife biology like? what exactly did you do?
Someone I worked with was a biologist and she said that she had developed cultures for a yogurt company. I honestly never thought of that as a profession; it seems these types of jobs are easily overlooked.
I do IT, mostly in in academia. I got into it thanks to my mother and figured it beat the heck out of the daily chores I had growing up; things like milking cows and baling hay.
Had an interesting experience yesterday. Our family Doctor (well, one of them but that's another story) was seeing my wife yesterday and she ask me what was behind my "makeover" and, after a couple of minutes of intense hesitation I went ahead and told her the truth.
I went on then to ask her about nursing and how difficult it would be to take my BS in Social Science and turn it into the proper degree. She pointed me to a couple of places to ask but then she said that it seemd to her that given my education and background, I should look into getting into counseling.
This floored me because I had already made inquiries with a professor I'd met at UM about the possibility. It was quite comforting to me to have her come up out of left field with a recommendation for something I had already been (unkonwn to her) considering.
CNA in a nursing home.
Quote from: Audrey on June 05, 2009, 10:42:30 PM
CNA in a nursing home.
but not for long soon you will be part of the RN family
Quote from: Kyla on June 04, 2009, 02:46:24 PM
I have to admit this piqued my curiosity - what exactly did you do?
I was a staff scientist in the life sciences division of an engineering company, spent a great deal of my time operating in small teams supervising observation and data collection field crews. The work was outdoors, everything from Chesapeake Bay, and large reservoirs fisheries studies in MD VA and NC, year round.....from beach seines and otter trawls to towing plankton nets. I developed a couple of field and lab projects, involving food selection habits, wild bird nesting surveys, herps surveys, and general water chemistry studies. In the lab, I was an micro and macro invertebrate taxonomist, plotting species populations and industrial impacts. Lots of wilderness area surveys for impacts including acid rain studies, etc. Very often, we were in physically demanding and dangerous environments. Lots of boating, some white-water work, rapelling, etc........a 'grabbing the gusto' career.
Bev
Hi Audry sweets, I pray all is going well with you.
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In my previous life I worked mainly as a laborer. I worked my way around the eastern part of both Canada and US, in factories, on farms, picking fruits, vegetables, etc. on plantations, dinging ditches, mended fences, painted houses, did small house repairs, operated heavy equipment such as, farm tractors, bulldozers, front end loaders, tractor trailers, even flew bush planes for a time, etc etc.
I used alcohol to a greater degree to cover up other problems I had. Eventually it got the best of me for some year and I was unemployable so I did nothin. After a time I recovered, went back to school and worked in counceling recovering alcoholics, addicts, got my papers in social work and worked with street people, then moved on to working with mental health consumers, then retired.
I have since gone back doing social work on a volunteer basis working at a drop in for survival sex trade workers.
Cindy
the kool-aid people would've wanted me to turn into a 'professional trans individual' but it didn't happen & i went into computer forensics instead.
Great to see other engineers here! I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and currently work to design different types of packaging (boxes, crates, pallets, plastic molded cases, foam products, etc). I really enjoyed learning about (it wasn't about being a guy), and still plan on continuing it in the future! ;D
Quote from: Miss Bev on June 06, 2009, 07:40:22 PM
I was a staff scientist in the life sciences division of an engineering company, spent a great deal of my time operating in small teams supervising observation and data collection field crews. The work was outdoors, everything from Chesapeake Bay, and large reservoirs fisheries studies in MD VA and NC, year round.....from beach seines and otter trawls to towing plankton nets. I developed a couple of field and lab projects, involving food selection habits, wild bird nesting surveys, herps surveys, and general water chemistry studies. In the lab, I was an micro and macro invertebrate taxonomist, plotting species populations and industrial impacts. Lots of wilderness area surveys for impacts including acid rain studies, etc. Very often, we were in physically demanding and dangerous environments. Lots of boating, some white-water work, rapelling, etc........a 'grabbing the gusto' career.
Bev
This was one of the reasons I went into Geology; I've always been somewhat of an explorer. A few months ago, we had to take a mandatory field trip for my Elementary Petrology class, and we went to the upper peninsula to look at a basaltic lava formation that predated a few million years. Well, we camped out doors for this excursion. It was a thrill; I've always enjoyed the outdoors, and being that it was related to geology made it that much better.
Regardless, it seems that you have had quite a few adventures yourself. You lead a very interesting life - I'm jealous.
Quote from: VanessaPink on June 07, 2009, 09:27:43 PM
I really enjoyed learning about (it wasn't about being a guy), and still plan on continuing it in the future! ;D
I agree. btw one of the prettiest and most feminine cis women I have ever known has her Masters in Mechanical Engineering. while living in NYC she was approached several times by agents that wanted her to model, but she was never interested (at the time I could not understand why). Engineering is all about the individual and (at least to me) seems to have very little to do with Gender.
but it does seem odd that we have such a high amount of engineers here. I wonder if it has to do with our habits of obsessively searching for a cause and solution to a problem.
Quote from: JessleeI wonder if it has to do with our habits of obsessively searching for a cause and solution to a problem.
I think its the creative spirit and ability to see in more than 2 or 3 dimensions... engineers do more than search and solve... its how they do that which sets them apart. The whole notion of "thinking out of the box" applies well here. Stands to reason that if we are trans and wish to transition we too need to "think out of the box". Changing XX -> XY and XY -> XX is no simple undertaking.
I've done lots of things. Been a soldier, laborer, industrial painter, welder, retail store manager. Currently, I'm trying to make it as a novelist.
Angela
Engineering, here. Problem solver....
if only a skirt were accepted as work clothing....how I dreamed of being an office girl!
Ah, well...one has to pay the bills...
I taught for years at a major engineering school. One of my classes, the History of Technology was ever so popular for engineers, a huge amount of them took it to fulfill what token liberal arts requirements we had for them. It was swell, I was the only history teacher who got blueprints to grade. (Lucky for me I could read blueprints, I can read a schematic too, but I thought that was going too far.) And the issue of 'engineers solve problems' fascinated me. So much so I had that as my first assignment, one they couldn't turn in a blueprint for but actually had to write on. (I can hear the collective 'gasp' still echo in my tiny little mind.)
So, here is the problem - as engineers you know, they are problem solvers and all that.
If, engineers solve problems, who exactly is it that gets to define what a 'problem' is?
I'll be back later to check in on you, in the meantime I have a bunch of stage plots to convert from drawings to reality for Miss Neko Case. As always in this stuff, making the drawings is easy, putting it together, well, some assembly required.
Quote from: tekla on June 09, 2009, 09:18:44 AM
So, here is the problem - as engineers you know, they are problem solvers and all that.
If, engineers solve problems, who exactly is it that gets to define what a 'problem' is?
Whosoever haveth the money!!!!
Unless you are lucky enough to stay within academia and can get the grants (and near slave labor gradstudent wages) for your own research.
however with engineers currently the number 1 most in demand employees (in this country) they should be able to find work on problems they are interested in!
Quote from: tekla on June 09, 2009, 09:18:44 AM
If, engineers solve problems, who exactly is it that gets to define what a 'problem' is?
Well, in todays society, sometimes it is the field of acadamia that creates problems just so their students can solve. However, traditionally speaking, they say that "necessity is the mother of all invention." In this case, that means the 'problem' is whatever we are not currently capable of doing or understand at the time. Whether it be a new technology to create near limitless energy, or to understand the origin of the cosmos, it is our 'need' to explore different things that we come across. Sometimes, engineers come up with problems themselves in the process of solving other problems. That is what I think anyway :icon_wink:.
Quote from: VanessaPink on June 09, 2009, 07:21:43 PM
Sometimes, engineers come up with problems themselves in the process of solving other problems. That is what I think anyway :icon_wink:.
That pretty much sums up quantum physics in a nutshell... :D ::) 8)
I'm a retired professional :) and love it, in fact I'm quite good at it :)
-={LR}=-
I've always worked in hospitality, mostly as a dishpig. *oink!*
But this year I started going to floristry school, and by the end of next year I'll be a completely qualified florist and hopefully have a job in a flower shop! :) :icon_flower:
Hello Everyone,
I have been a soldier, a casino dealer, a bouncer, a valet, a sales person, and now I am a long haul truck driver.
Hugzzzz,
kristi
Let's see...I've been unemployed since last October and I'm not minding it in the least. Of course, I'll take money if it comes my way, but I don't mind relaxing either. Right now, I'm living at college and financial aid pays for everything.
Another geek/artist here :P
Have a masters in computer science.
Currently doing IT/website stuff which I hate.
Need to find a software developing gig.
And am a wannabe musician :D
Probably a biased sample.
Also biased by Internet access and use.
Use to searching so we find sites.
Problem solvers
Can afford to transition?
Not use to intimidation and can think.
What else do engineers do? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Love
Cindy, a non-engineer
I'm still a student in class 12.
Sandra Ts
I work the line in a cheese factory.
I graduated with honors with a degree in computer science :).
I am just happy to have a job.
-- Galantha
I'm an unemployed college student with my own business. Does that make sense? :D
Edit: Oh wait, I already said that. That's what I get for trying to post when I'm sleepy.
Quote from: Galantha on July 08, 2009, 06:11:15 PM
I work the line in a cheese factory
That is so coolio! I've been looking around for something, but I don't know what really. Whatever I find will likely be my last non-psych related job so I'm hoping to find something...interesting. My favorite job of all time was delivering pizzas, but I'd be open to cooking hamburgers or milking cows, just something routine and normal to switch gears from school for a few hours a day.
I am not an engineer!
However, I do have a BS degree where I had a double major of Biology and Physics and minored in Math. I also have a MS degree in Biology and am a Doctoral Candidate in Secondary and Higher Education.
Now for the good news. I work in retail mixing paint. I came to the conclusion long ago that if 100 people applied for a job and I was by far the most qualified of the 100 then I might get the job if the other 99 applicants turned it down. I never really fully understood why until this last year. As a result I stopped trying to fit into "their" world, lost 70 pounds, died my hair red, pierced my ears and walk and talk as feminine as my body naturally wants to. As a result I am a much happier person. Just got to get that dissertation project done.
I read a survey a year or two ago, I'll try to find it, that looked at people finishing the dissertation and found those with outside jobs - retail, I worked as a roadie and tech director for a nightclub and installing car stereos - finished at a higher rate than those that took the TA/teaching/RA stuff. So good luck. I finished mine, taught for a decade, and decided I loved doing rock shows more, and now do that full time. I love my work, what I do, the people I work with, the fringe bennies, all of it.
Quote from: tekla on July 08, 2009, 11:01:09 PM
I read a survey a year or two ago, I'll try to find it, that looked at people finishing the dissertation and found those with outside jobs - retail, I worked as a roadie and tech director for a nightclub and installing car stereos - finished at a higher rate than those that took the TA/teaching/RA stuff. So good luck. I finished mine, taught for a decade, and decided I loved doing rock shows more, and now do that full time. I love my work, what I do, the people I work with, the fringe bennies, all of it.
That is interesting. I should have been done last year but I didn't match up well with my first adviser and my wife got very ill. I think if I really put forth the effort I can graduate in May. It would be nice not to have to worry about that sucker anymore.
It is quite a millstone around the neck, I know all too well. You would think that finishing it would be a big deal, but all I felt was burned out - more like the way that hitting yourself in the head with a hammer feels good when it stops, but its not like a 'good' good feeling.
So far so good for my first post, but I guess I chose an easy one to start with. :)
Computer developer, 2D/3D artist. I love photography and writing, but are more of a hobby at the moment.
QuoteSo, here is the problem - as engineers you know, they are problem solvers and all that.
If, engineers solve problems, who exactly is it that gets to define what a 'problem' is?
In my field, it's more of a "What task must the computer solve?", followed by, "How do I make the computer do it?".
And from there it's all problem solving, since usually there isn't a streamlined way of doing you need.
Well, to answer the question, "Who defines the problems?" Society tends to in the end. Engineering tends to follow - if not worship - money (its the mother's milk of more than politics 'ya know), and at some point, putting up the money for the solution is a social/cultural deal, not an engineering deal. And the end decision - to adopt or not - is never an engineering solution, its always a social and cultural decision.
That's why solutions exist that are not put into practice.
The Greeks had steam power. They used it for a trick or two, like opening the doors to the Temple at Delphi when one went to see the Oracle. But they never sought to apply that power on a more widespread basis, saving labor was not in the best interest of a slave culture. Keeping slaves busy - not idle - is in the best interest of a slave culture.
Or, try this one. The Chinese invented/discovered gunpowder. They used it to create one of the most beautiful technological things in the history of the world, aerial pyrotechnics - fireworks to the layperson. When the Europeans saw them, their first thought was, "hey, lets use that to kill people" and promptly invented the gun and the cannon. A society like China, one that valued harmony and stability had less than zero use for a weapon that would allow a small group to equalize its numeric disadvantage with a larger group. Europe at that time saw it in just the opposite way.
Even the choice of what task a computer must/should solve is driven by market forces more than anything else. While Woz may have been a true engineer, looking for a way to make somethings work in a smaller and more user friendly way - it was the apps as it were (and two in particular, word processing and spreadsheets/accounting) that really drove the initial sales of personal computers by radically changing the way two basic business tasks were accomplished. Computers still are used for the basic reason they were invented - doing mass calculations - but to put on in every office, and then every home, required it doing something more than stress calculations or working though firing solutions for weapons (the original two uses). And while Woz and Apple deserve a lot of praise for what they did, Wang with its original word processing machines, and Lotus 1-2-3 deserve some credit for doing things that first business, and then ordinary persons wanted to do.
So while engineers 'solve' problems, they don't often get to define what the 'problem' to be solved is.
Quote from: tekla on July 09, 2009, 09:59:29 AM
Well, to answer the question, "Who defines the problems?" Society tends to in the end. Engineering tends to follow - if not worship - money (its the mother's milk of more than politics 'ya know), and at some point, putting up the money for the solution is a social/cultural deal, not an engineering deal. And the end decision - to adopt or not - is never an engineering solution, its always a social and cultural decision.
That's why solutions exist that are not put into practice.
The Greeks had steam power. They used it for a trick or two, like opening the doors to the Temple at Delphi when one went to see the Oracle. But they never sought to apply that power on a more widespread basis, saving labor was not in the best interest of a slave culture. Keeping slaves busy - not idle - is in the best interest of a slave culture.
Or, try this one. The Chinese invented/discovered gunpowder. They used it to create one of the most beautiful technological things in the history of the world, aerial pyrotechnics - fireworks to the layperson. When the Europeans saw them, their first thought was, "hey, lets use that to kill people" and promptly invented the gun and the cannon. A society like China, one that valued harmony and stability had less than zero use for a weapon that would allow a small group to equalize its numeric disadvantage with a larger group. Europe at that time saw it in just the opposite way.
Even the choice of what task a computer must/should solve is driven by market forces more than anything else. While Woz may have been a true engineer, looking for a way to make somethings work in a smaller and more user friendly way - it was the apps as it were (and two in particular, word processing and spreadsheets/accounting) that really drove the initial sales of personal computers by radically changing the way two basic business tasks were accomplished. Computers still are used for the basic reason they were invented - doing mass calculations - but to put on in every office, and then every home, required it doing something more than stress calculations or working though firing solutions for weapons (the original two uses). And while Woz and Apple deserve a lot of praise for what they did, Wang with its original word processing machines, and Lotus 1-2-3 deserve some credit for doing things that first business, and then ordinary persons wanted to do.
So while engineers 'solve' problems, they don't often get to define what the 'problem' to be solved is.
Tekla, I thought I already answered this, in the Engineering term "KIS" (keep it simple) Money is the bottom line. ;)
Hi . .. Dont ever be put off doing what is close to your heart . wether male or female . remember women can do any thing. as a transfemale . whos a andro . at 61 .
after leaving school i went in to cabinat making . then building . did farming & fixed car.s truck.s tractors & any thing that moved on wheels . & for the last 11 years. still did building as a woman ....work wise nothing has changed . only i have retired.. we have many women over here doing so called male work . go to some other county.s & who does the work ... women ....so just be your self & go with your heart .
...noeleena...
I guess i'd be classified as a software engineer/consultant, although in the last few years i've moved up to more of a hired troubleshooter/project manager/senior tech position. Happiness in my younger years was growing my hair out while slinging lines of code and rocking out; now I seem to sit in meetings all day long, I have no hair :D and I oversee what other people do. Boring. I'd really like to break out of this profession and do something else, but I haven't figured out what that something else might be. I keep thinking about it a lot though.
Quote from: riven_oneI'd really like to break out of this profession and do something else, but I haven't figured out what that something else might be. I keep thinking about it a lot though.
What are you passionate about? What is it you enjoy doing? If slinging code was what gave you pleasure then maybe its time to go back to basics. If you're considering changing careers anyways then even if this means a cut in pay it might be worth it if you look forward to waking up every morning to face another work day.
Tekla,
Sorry to be so late in responding to you...
When I say "problem solver" I mean just that--in a systems analyst kind of way.
When you wait in line for a checker at the grocery store, and the other lines seem to be moving faster than yours, that's a problem.
When the evaporative cooler can't bring the temperature of the house down more than 20F from the outside temperature, that's a problem.
Anything that does not work as well as it should is a problem, be it a coffee pot, oven, lawn mower, power plant...whatever.
As a systems analyst, I find solutions to these problems, and a crazy variety of others....
:)
Geology is cool. I really enjoyed the few undergrad classes I took, though not enough to persue it as a major. I'm actually a UW-Milwaukee grad. (Go Panthers!) Not that I'm actually doing anything with my history degree. Once upon a time I saw myself persuing a PhD in history but that fell by the wayside. Now I just don't know. I had been driving bus for a while but I'm not working right now so that I can take care of a family member who is seriously ill.
Lately I've been thinking about going back to school for an MS in Art Therapy but that's still up in the air. One of these days I'll sort it all out. I just need to stop being so indecisive. I'm just a big ball of dunno. : )