I put this in the Therapy section because after today I think I'll need at least another years worth. It has been a really, really bad day. I'm very aware of the power of words to stab and cut, but I somehow thought I was tougher than that, that I could take anything.
I had some business to take care of at school today. It didn't need to be anything difficult, just putting the finishing touches on financial aid for the fall term...but I got somebody with a combination of being new and lazy, and had to work at extracting information from her and keep bugging her to get her to do anything for me. After a while she got impatient when she realised I wasn't just going to go away, and called someone else over to help her. That's when it started.
Usually I'm treated with incredible respect at school. My federal papers still have a male name on it, but I present a female appearance so they just refer to me as "hon" or "sweety", one even uses a feminised version of my male name. I've become accustomed to this level of dignity, so when the lady came up and looked at the computer screen, then at me, and said "what can I do for you sir" it registered...but hey I figured it's going to happen sometimes, I can deal with it. But, then she went on. "I'm sorry Sir, I don't understand."..."Look Mister, you need to be more clear" The original one caught on, and joined in, every sentence starting and ending with "sir, Sir, SIR". With every utterance it hit me harder and more pointed and deeper, and they just kept up, toward the end almost spitting it at me, and I finally couldn't bear it anymore.
Well they got what they wanted, I went away. I excused myself and went in the bathroom broke down in tears. It doesn't sound like a lot, I know, but it was quite deliberate and it really wounded me. They were staying within social convention, on paper they did not do anything wrong, but if you'd been there you'd know what I'm talking about.
I need some coping strategies for these situations. How do you all cope because I'm at a loss right now. The only other way I know to deal with this kind of hurt and pain is to swallow it, and that's a very self-defeating, male approach. I don't think I even could swallow it if I wanted too, I seriously doubt it would stay down. I can't wither like that whenever I'm faced with resistance and insult, I have to go back tomorrow and try to actually finish my business, it's not going to finish itself. This was the first time I've really been...attacked in such a fashion and this was NOT the way I hoped to react. I had these grand, witty, equally insulting comments all planned out that I would make in return, instead all I did was turn inward and run away.
I am sorry you had to be assaulted in that manner. This is how I would respond this situation.
Report them to their supervisor. It is call verbal assault and let it be known you will not tolerate it in ANY FASHION. If that does not get anyway go to the Head Supervisor or Dean. This requires a written apology on the part of the offenders.
Do not allow them to get away with this kind of abuse. If required go to the campus GLBT group.
Janet
Get your name and papers to match who you are.
Even if you haven't gotten your name or gender changed "officially," it shouldn't be a problem for them to change your name and use the proper pronouns if you're presenting as female.
I agree with Janet, go to their supervisor or the dean and demand an apology. That kind of behavior, especially in a college environment (of all places!) is highly inappropriate and unprofessional, not to mention downright rude. I transitioned in college too and received a few rude comments here and there, but nearly all faculty/staff/administrators treated me with respect, just like everyone else.
You deserve the same sweetie. Best of luck. (((HUGS)))
Let's set the whole "deep rooted gender identity" issue aside from the situation,
for just a minute. How would you have responded if her verbal attack had gone
something like this? "What can I do for you, a--hole"..."I'm sorry S---head, I
don't understand."..."Look f---face, you need to be more clear", this in all actuality
is what this biotch was saying, if I'm reading your post correctly. In this instance
would you have curled up and cried or would you have stood up and defended
yourself against such a vicious verbal attack? If the later is the case, why would
your reaction be any different because she substituted a few words to provide
herself a thin shield of plausible deniabilty.
Why does it seem like we allow our detractors to use our own fragility as a weapon
against us. I spent decades allowing myself to be cowed into repressing my gender
expression. Heather is now in control and I WILL defend myself and stand
shoulder to shoulder with those of a like mind.
But that's just me.
:icon_pistoles:
I admire your demeanor Heather, but how did you get there? I'm bothered by the way they treated me, alot, but what really bothers me is my reaction.
I'm feeling a lil bit better now. I went out and got some of those Incoco nails and some swiss cheese, I'll try them out when I'm done eating :icon_chew:
Here here Heather! :icon_bat: (I have a bat cuz I hate guns, that's just me)
Becca, you just need confidence, and that takes time to build up, believe me. It took me a while, but now I stand up when someone calls me the wrong name or uses the wrong pronouns. Case in point, I went to get new lenses for my frames today, and I had gotten a postcard addressed to me with the prefix "Mr." which got me pretty upset, so when I went in I calmly but firmly said, "I received a postcard from here a week ago addressed to Mr. [last name], and this is incorrect. It's Ms. or Miss [last name]." They checked it and it turned out to be a glitch in their computer (it said Mrs. in the file), they were apologetic about it, fixed it, and the problem was resolved.
Just be patient with yourself, and stand up for who you are. Don't let anyone take your identity from you either, because it's all you have.
Patients, confidence, calm but firm. Those are some very key points that Fae brings up.
Understandably, it is not always easy to keep your composure when folks act as inapropriately as those you had to put up with at the school. I would report them. Show confidence and patients and be calm but firm with a smile when you discuss their inappropriate behavior with who ever is in charge there ;)
Quote from: Becca on July 06, 2009, 09:57:06 PM
I admire your demeanor Heather, but how did you get there? I'm bothered by the way they treated me, alot, but what really bothers me is my reaction.
I'm feeling a lil bit better now. I went out and got some of those Incoco nails and some swiss cheese, I'll try them out when I'm done eating :icon_chew:
My Baby has been in the trucking industry for quite awhile and you get quite a attitude dealing with some of the idiots that call themselves truckers, dispatchers and shippers..
She is a very strong woman, one of the many things that I love about her. But I am sure she will answer for herself, as I know she will.
Janet
Quote from: tekla on July 06, 2009, 08:12:51 PM
Get your name and papers to match who you are.
This.
Why get used to something that's so easy to change?
Quote from: Becca on July 06, 2009, 09:57:06 PM...some swiss cheese
I've always found "swiss cheese" to be a fantastic intestinal fortifier ;D
Seriously Doll, it comes in baby steps.
Tekla, in her trademark, touchy feely presentation, kind of touched on a very
important point pertaining to this issue. (Granted, the offending wench didn't ask
for your credentials before she initiated her attack) There needs to be a foundation
that you can stand on, some milestone you can point to and say this is WHO I AM
and OWN it. It is undeniable how empowering it is to simply have the picture on your
ID match your prefered presentation. In the eyes of society it lends a quantity, albeit
a small amount, of credibility to your demands to be considered a (fill in the blank)
You have to establish your boundries, what you will tolerate, from who and how flexible
you're willing to be with strangers. Always consider, "Did this person say "this" out
of ignorance or arrogance?", and match your reaction to that assessment. Like anything,
confidence in your convictions requires practice. Don't allow yourself to be blindsided,
envision different scenarios and situations of various encounters and imagine how
you would react to them. In these scenarios, I don't believe that you would imagine
yourself crumbling into a pile of "Jello". If you witnessed someone engaged in an
unprovoked attack on someone else would you stand by and do nothing, if
not why would you allow YOURSELF to be attacked, unprovoked?
Don't allow yourself to ever justify another persons attack on you because of
your prefered presentation. As long as you are decently (we ALL have some inkling
what the idea of decency is) attired, you own the right to remain unaccosted. An attack
on someone because of an atypical gender representation is akin to assaulting a person
because they have a facial abnormality. By stepping out of the gender "rank and file"
you have announced to the world your intention to exist as YOU see fit, on your terms.
OWN it and DEFEND it. If you do not, someone WILL take it away from you.
Most importantly, pick your battles, and be vigilant but never lose you sense of
humor, if you don't have one GET one. Learn to laugh at yourself and at the morons that
pester you but never let a full out attack go unanswered, in some form or fashion.
Hi Becca,
That sounds awful. I don't really deal with it well myself, and I tend to lose my composure if someone attacks me (or even just slips) like that. Every time someone uses male pronouns or "sirs" me, I'm just crushed, and I'm not in any position to be able to respond. But I can usually respond later.
A few examples: A girl I'd only met a couple times, and whom I originally met presenting as a guy, used "he" a few times -- but pretty clearly -- without even thinking about it when I was talking with her at a party. Even that little thing hurt enough I couldn't pay attention and I left. I realized that part of it was that I wasn't sure if she even knew it was wrong. I came back later and told her that it wasn't okay, and she was genuinely apologetic. Talking about it helped a lot.
A waiter said "thank you, sir" after checking my ID. He lost his tip.
A girl I'd just met at a party referred to me as "he -- I mean she" ... And I just dealt with it. She knew she screwed up, so there was nothing to do. It still hurt, but it wasn't mean, at least. I tried to accept it as what it was, a sign that I don't pass as much as I want to (i.e., always and unfailingly), so there's room to improve.
In your situation, I don't know what else to do but pretty explicitly tell them that it's not okay to call you "sir." The clever retorts you are talking about always sound good in your head, but never seem to be there when you need them -- but I don't think they help anyway. Calmly (after you get calm) telling them that they are being very rude and insulting usually will humiliate them sufficiently that they will apologize and change their attitude. Moreover, it gives you confidence that you can deal with it. Complaining to the higher-ups often just makes people upset and doesn't make you feel any better, so I'd only use it if they don't apologize and start treating you with respect.
I try to remember that for each one of those negative experiences that seem to knock down the house of cards of my confidence, there are many wonderfully positive experiences. Tekla's right, too -- knowing that it's a problem that will go away makes it seem much less significant.
~Alyssa
Sorry to hear about that. I've never been in that situation because I'm not full-time nor have I begun an actual transition. Some people have different emotional reactions to different things. While some people (such as yourself) when hurt may decide to go away from the situation and cry, I tend to get angry (although I may cry later). I can't say for sure what I would have done but if I was angry enough that I didn't care about embarassing myself, I may have put up an attitude in response. This would be something along the lines of a stern "Treat me with respect. Stop calling me sir." If they got real nasty, I may assert that I am transgender and the right to receive equal service to any other student. If they refuse service, I may even refuse to leave and if they threaten to call the police, go ahead. The scene would likely attract attention from a student newspaper which would put an article in exposing the abuse to the higher-ups in the school hopefully resulting in either stern reprimanding of the employee or firing followed by an official apology.
Had I instead chosen the option you did and walked away, I certainly would follow up through the proper non-angry channels (since it is now after the fact). This would include letters and phone calls to the employee's superiors as well as contacting the newspaper and relevant student organizations if necessary. Either way, don't put up with that crap. Good luck.
Quote from: Becca on July 06, 2009, 09:57:06 PMI admire your demeanor Heather, but how did you get there?
Quote from: Janet Lynn on July 06, 2009, 10:43:03 PMMy Baby has been in the trucking industry for quite awhile...
I guess you could say I've been driven to it.
::)
Quote from: Alyssa M. on July 07, 2009, 01:24:03 AMA waiter said "thank you, sir" after checking my ID. He lost his tip.
Did he know why? I would have asked him, "Why did you refer to me as sir?"
Then I would have gauged the tone and sincerity of his answer. If I noted
contrite confusion in his reply, I would have said, "I would appreciate it if you
would please address me as I am presenting myself." and his attitude after that
would decide whether he would be left a tip. If when I asked him, "Why did you
refer to me as sir?", he gave me some sort of crappy attitude I would have told
him point blank, "You just lost your tip, I want to speak to the manage, NOW!"
You might also take along an ally next time you go in to talk to these yahoos. Someone who accepts you as you are, uses the proper pronouns, and brings in some confidence to make up for what you haven't built up yet.
And a cloak of bravado. That has always helped me through some of the toughest situations.
Quote from: Arch on July 07, 2009, 02:39:28 AM
And a cloak of bravado.
Mine's more of a union suit
;D
Quote from: Arch on July 07, 2009, 02:39:28 AM
You might also take along an ally next time you go in to talk to these yahoos. Someone who accepts you as you are, uses the proper pronouns, and brings in some confidence to make up for what you haven't built up yet.
And a cloak of bravado. That has always helped me through some of the toughest situations.
Bringing along an advocate who can deal with and wont put up with anyone's stinky stuff is a good idea. If such a person is not available, and you have to go it alone. Guess who has to be the tactful bulldog of sorts?
Patients, Confidence, Calm but firm
Quote from: Virginia Marie on July 07, 2009, 03:04:43 AMPatients, Confidence, Calm but firm
Please do not miss understand me. I am not "a cow in a china shop".
I seek to make friends where ever I go, armed with a smile and a kind word,
BUT I take NO B.S. I will be cowed by NO ONE any longer.
Quote from: heatherrose on July 07, 2009, 03:22:16 AM
Please do not miss understand me. I am not "a cow in a china shop".
I seek to make friends where ever I go, armed with a smile and a kind word,
BUT I take NO B.S. I will be cowed by NO ONE any longer.
I don't think anyone is calling you "a cow in a china shop" I think you're the type of advocate I would bring with me. But so many, like myself are left to deal with stuff on their own and must take the inspiration of others and deal with various situations. It is part of growing. Will you or I always be there to help deal with everyones situation? I actually take much of my inspiration from Susan. Shhhh, don't tell her
Thank you for being here everybody. :-*
Changing my name at this point isn't a possibility, I was planning to do it on my hrt anniversary and though it's tempting, really very tempting, I'm going to stick with that plan. It wouldn't have made a difference in this case anyway, they were doing it deliberately to hurt me and punish me for being a pest.
I'll take a friend with me tomorrow, that's a good idea. It just so happens I run with the biggest, meanest lesbian in town, and she is very much a bull in a china shop. Let's see these imtimidatingly pretty, petite little brats sir her.
Hi Becca
Sorry as everyone else to hear your ordeal.
As an academic in an Australian University, if the same scenerio occured and was reported, as it should be, at the least the offenders would be sent to counselling, if it was a repeat offense they would be sacked. No ifs, no whys. Straight sexual discrimination and against the law ( at least here).
I also agree with Tekla and Mister about getting the documents, but also what Heather said that they attacked you before documents could be presented. What you don't want to do is what you did. Submit. Hell Girl, I would have been a screaming fury. Do report it.
Heather and Virginia (in body armour): ten paces with a full set of china. One. two, three; THROW :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Cindy
Quote from: Virginia Marie on July 07, 2009, 03:44:07 AMI don't think anyone is calling you "a cow in a china shop" I think you're the type of advocate I would bring with me.
Thank-you for saying so. I would be and have been there for my "siblings of
varied gender presentation". I just wanted to make that point clear.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on July 07, 2009, 03:44:07 AMIt is part of growing. Will you or I always be there to help deal with everyones situation?
The only one, aside from my Mama, those here on Susan's and a few long distance
friends that could be numbered on one hand, that has supported me is ME. I have come
to terms with "all of this", learned and grown from my enrollment in "Hardknox University".
I hope that I might be able to pass along a little of the story of what I've learned.
Maybe it might provide some inspiration to some one paralyzed with fear
or at least save someone coming behind me some grief and tears.
I thought I recognized you from the University of Hardnox alumni :laugh: I was there also
Wow that is horrible. I'm sorry you had such a bad day. Some people just have to slam and degrade others to feel better about themselves. I bet they did this in school growing up. They are bullies. I'd like to think they feel guilty and ashamed later but they probably don't, because they have empty spots in their hearts that can never be filled. They turn things outward and belittle whomever they can. I'm one of the weird ones that would invite them to lunch pay for it, and sit and talk with them. Of course they would never go, but it would prove my point to myself they are just mean people.
I do know this. What come around goes around and sooner or later it will come back on them. It sucks there has to be people like that in this world, but it sounds like it taught you something about yourself. Take that lesson and use it for next time this happens.
Well for sure it sucks to work financial aid, after one semester of it when I was an undergrad I was ready to work washing dishes in the cafeteria. Most students show up in financial aid with a unique mixture of neediness and entitlement, combined with a high rate of ignorance about what it is they are doing and how they are supposed to go about it. I'm not saying that you were like that, but I'm sure everyone else that person had to deal with that day was. I think back and I'm pretty sure that is because 99% of the people who do financial aid understand that its a government/banking deal, and like all g/b deals it has to be letter perfect, every 'i' dotted, every 't' crossed. And they just fill in the forms correctly and you never have to deal with them.
Professors for the most part are easy, because they care a lot less, and often can't be bothered, all you are a lot of the time is the last 4 digits of your SSN# and a letter grade on a computer form.
One caution though, we did have a way to deal with people who upset us, in classic bureaucratic fashion, we just picked up the huge pile of stuff on our desk and put that person's forms on the bottom. So perhaps don't go with someone designed to antagonize, but with someone who understands the process (and its one hell of a process). And talk to the Dean, they get paid for having to care about that kind of stuff and might listen.
1) Even after the fact, report the miscreants to their supervisor or the dean. Their behavior was completely unacceptable, regardless of the fact that you are TG.
2) Yes, take an advocate with you next time if one is available.
3) As Heatherrose says, own the ground you stand on. This means knowing where your boundaries are. Correct people when they use the wrong pronoun or wrong name. You can ignore the error if it is minor, be polite and patient with slips, but be more forceful with those who are trying to belittle you.
(One thing I really like about being Kate is that, unlike wishy-washy ol' what's-his-name, she doesn't take a lot of crap. ;))
Good luck, Becca. I'm really sorry you suffered through this. It will be hard, but stand up for yourself. Each time you do it will toughen you and make you better able to do it the next time.
As Anne Brown, the original Bess in Gershin's Porgy and Bess, said: Us tough gals got to tough it out. Be tough, Becca, and you go grrrl!
- Kate
Quote from: Becca on July 07, 2009, 04:01:30 AM
Thank you for being here everybody. :-*
Changing my name at this point isn't a possibility, I was planning to do it on my hrt anniversary and though it's tempting, really very tempting, I'm going to stick with that plan. It wouldn't have made a difference in this case anyway, they were doing it deliberately to hurt me and punish me for being a pest.
I'll take a friend with me tomorrow, that's a good idea. It just so happens I run with the biggest, meanest lesbian in town, and she is very much a bull in a china shop. Let's see these imtimidatingly pretty, petite little brats sir her.
good for you! I know how upset you must have been. They were rude and I doubt if their supervisor would have condoned it. Maybe you could ask to speak to the supervisor next time? Sorry I have no sage advice, I would have been crushed too. But hugs always helps (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cosgan.de%2Fimages%2Fsmilie%2Fliebe%2Fa055.gif&hash=09c31e3d3e9f03f2ca1e44008cb973d551e61797)
I just realized this and wanted to point it out, but when someone messes up with the pronouns or calls us by the wrong name, it will always hurt, even if you have been living FT for a long time and maybe run into someone who recognizes you. The important thing is what you do from there: do you allow their deliberate or mistaken action to ruin your mood for the moment/day/week? Or do you rise above that hurt and carry on, correct them, and be confident in knowing who you are and that you are doing nothing wrong by living as you feel you should?
Quote from: Fae on July 07, 2009, 12:07:22 PM
...rise above that hurt and carry on, correct them, and be confident in knowing who
you are and that you are doing nothing wrong by living as you feel you should?
Ya, and that, too!
;D
I correct them gently if it was accidental. I correct them politely but firmly if it was out of ignorance. And I correct them with a let's-quit-screwing-around-here-you-jerk attitude if it was intentional.
But then, I'm a pushy broad. ;)
- Kate
What you describe sounds like an ethical issue. I would have gone to someone higher up and reported that you were being deliberately demeaned and embarrassed by an employee of the university. If someone tried to pull that with me, they'd probably be fired the next day.
I'm not against you Becca, but I have two points as devil's advocate, or at least, why bother making a scene about it now?
First, your name and appearance don't match. You might be able to lodge a complaint, but why, because you were called sir several times (maybe dozens) over the course of a conversation? The ladies that helped you were following convention, you're registered as male, under a male name, they were calling you by your legal identity. They were not doing anything illegal, even if it was wrong.
Second, your perception of how things went makes it sounds like what they were doing was genuinely hurtful, which I am sure it was. I've been there, done that, and I know what it's like to cry for hours afterward. It sucks, and my heart breaks for you. However, your perception alone isn't going to be enough to get any traction out of the dean's office. You can't say that "they made you feel bad" if you try to complain. I don't think I'd even bother. You need to have said something, corrected them or whatever, and then you can say, "I asked nicely and they refused to treat me with respect."
Best advice I can think of: go back and get your business taken care of. If you get hassled like you did the first time, if they call you sir, then out yourself to them. You're already outed anyway: you dress like a girl, but have a guy's name. Tell them that you're trans, and you'd appreciate being addressed properly.
If the person helping you refuses to address you as you've requested, you actually CAN go up the chain of command until you find someone who's not an a$$hat and will actually help you AND be nice to you. You'll also have more standing to make a complaint-- you asked, corrected gently on what you prefer to be called, and legal status notwithstanding, if you're refused, well that's a problem you can take higher up.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I hope it gets better, and my advice: be bold, and don't be ashamed about who you are. Always be careful, but never be ashamed.
I'm not going to complain to anyone, it wouldn't make me feel any better, change anything or do any good at all in this little redneck mountain town school...and would just cause drama. They were probaly having a bad day already when I got there and I was just the last straw. I've forgiven those girls for hurting me. I don't think it was personal at all; my concern lies in my lack of an ability to react constructively, but I'll work on it. We went back the next day and dealt with someone different and everything is done now.
I suppose I could dial back my appearance, a bit, until mind and reality are more congruent. I'd rather not, but I need to be able to function in the world while these changes happen. People look at me and sense a girl, hear a boy and see something in between, and that confuses them and we all know what nasty creatures humans are in that condition.
Quote from: Becca on July 08, 2009, 02:07:14 PM
I'm not going to complain to anyone, it wouldn't make me feel any better, change anything or do any good at all in this little redneck mountain town school...and would just cause drama. They were probaly having a bad day already when I got there and I was just the last straw. I've forgiven those girls for hurting me. I don't think it was personal at all; my concern lies in my lack of an ability to react constructively, but I'll work on it. We went back the next day and dealt with someone different and everything is done now.
I suppose I could dial back my appearance, a bit, until mind and reality are more congruent. I'd rather not, but I need to be able to function in the world while these changes happen. People look at me and sense a girl, hear a boy and see something in between, and that confuses them and we all know what nasty creatures humans are in that condition.
Sounds like you are in the awkward in between stage. I am dreading that.
I definitely agree that you need to work on constructive correction. Being rude won't make people want to be nice or respectful, even if they were rude or mean first. Practice if you need to, but make sure you have some kind "actually, I prefer to be called Miss if you don't mind" response. Or tell people that [male name] is your legal name but you go by Becca. I did that during a job interview. It works and (some) people at least respect the honesty.
It may or may not help for you if you're in a not-terribly-trans-friendly place, so just be careful.
As for dialing back, that always felt like the opposite direction from where I wanted to go, and even though I looked pretty weird in my in between stage, I figured it would only get better and it has. Do what you can to make that as mercifully short as possible, but know that it will exist for at least a while.
Best of luck!
Quote from: K8 on July 08, 2009, 07:48:02 AM
But then, I'm a pushy broad. ;)
K8, I'm liking you more every minute. ;D