Hi All
I apologise if this is seen as inappropriate or in the wrong place, I sincerely didn't know where else to ask... I have been doing some self reflection/soul searching and have come across a few feelings that I was wondering were specific to me or felt also by the wider FTM community.
Well since I don't really know where to start, I was thinking about lots of things but sex drive and activity were thoughts that kept coming back. In regards to myself, I have never really had a sex drive and until I was about 25 I never touched myself sexually, I just couldn't bring myself to. Even with a partner (female) if I was asked to touch myself I couldn't do it, and also anytime I was with a partner it was always very hard for me to climax.
I never understood why it was so different for the person I was with and yet to me always felt so strange. Like at times good obviously but essentially strange. Another revelation was that I have never liked my "breasts" being touched. Just all these things that I had never really thought of, like when I am with a partner, or even alone in order to reach the top I need to imagine heterosexual encounters, where I was always the man. Should that have been my first clue??!!!??
When I first came out as a lesbian – I always felt like it never really "fit" properly, like that wasn't supposed to be me. And now here I am reading all your stories and comments I realised there is another option. So many things I look at now and think I should have known sooner. Even just things as simple as haircuts I have had throughout my life. The clothes I always felt my mother should have dressed me in. The activities my parents let me do and the ones I felt I should be doing. Even as a child just thinking I should be going with all my mates into the boys toilets...
So many thoughts I have been having... Does anyone else feel as daft as me for not realising sooner?? And then I had the conversation with my psych whom I was seeing for depression and anxiety – I asked if maybe at least some of the problems I have had over the years could be a result of the gender identity issues I have felt and... ding ding ding – we have a winner!! He said absolutely, your own identity is the cornerstone of who we are, if you have doubts and issues with who you are then yeah my anxiety and depression could be all wrapped up in that too. Not to mention my adjustment disorder and the problems I had at school etc...
Sorry this is long I didn't want it to be. But I was just wondering if anyone else had similar thoughts? Similar experiences? Anything... it's just nice to be validated I must say.
Cheers guys, I look forward to any responses I get.
Jay
I did have the issue in my teens where I wouldn't directly touch myself. Nothing could involve my actual hand. Things just felt wrong. I forced myself to get over it. I did have to break through some mental barrier to be able to enjoy my body. I think that's pretty normal. Especially if there's any truth to the 'body map' thing.
So is it just because we are different and not overly comfortable with who we are or how we arre perceived? I have had other friends (female) who love doing stuff by themselves! I was also wondering has anyone had huge issues with things during sexual activites entering the vagina? I would assume yes but assumption is the mother of all f%$# ups. I personally cannot tolerate ever things at the entrance and I always wondering why I was so different from all my partners and my lesbian friends... Anyone? or am I on my own here...
QuoteSo is it just because we are different and not overly comfortable with who we are or how we arre perceived?
I don't know. I attribute my initial reticence to biology.
So your dysphoria with sex as a teen is possibly a result of birth gender. Makes sense to me too, as if I had been born in the right body we probably wouldnt be having this chat. Is that accurate? Therefore since we will never be biomale will we ever be content in that department? I still think about my body, sex and such and honestly dont know if I will ever be comfortable... I guess it also comes down to having to put yourself out there in front of another human being. Making yourself vulnerable.
I am very reluctant to be visible, to allow myself to truly be seen due to stuff I have dealt with all my life. I have been yelled at in female toilets for being in the wrong ones. I have had people try and physically remove me coz they think I am in the wrong one. I have had friends of friends and my own family members ask me if I am male or female... People who are supposed to know me. Tell me does it get easier?
QuoteTherefore since we will never be biomale will we ever be content in that department?
Speaking for myself, yes. I've come to enjoy my body. Some guys come to be content through genital surgery. But, contentment is possible.
Thanks Nero, at least I can look forward to that.
Cheers.
I would love to hear what anyone else thinks... about my original post or the conversation Nero and myself were having.
I feel like I am waiting for something but I dont know what. I am just trying to arm myself with all the knowledge I can.
Thanks again Nero.
Jay
Jaydle, I have the exact same problems. I can't touch myself, and when I've tried, it was just wrong. I never touch that junk on my chest either when I'm washing in the shower. I am pretty much asexual (well not really I am still attracted to people but I can't do anything cause of my body) because of my gender dysphoria. I will watch stuff but that's it. It makes me so frustrated and envious... I have become such an awkward, shy, anxious, depressed, loner, not fun to be around, person and I believe all that is tied into me being TG with extreme gender/sex dysphoria.
Someone on the forums here once said that realizing you're really TS is like the Germans realizing what the Nazi's did after WWII. It was a great analogy.
Despite all but believing I was a boy until that horrible day I got my first period, and being about as masculine as a "girl" could be for the vast majority of my life, I never even had a clue I might be ftm until I was 18. Of course, I didn't even know what an ftm WAS until then (yes, I was sheltered). However, regardless of realizing I was ftm at 18, I waited another five years to even look into transition, and a year past that to start. I tried identifying as lesbian for a year or two, but it didn't work for me at all. But you can count me among those clueless folks who took awhile to clue into the trans bit.
As per masturbation, I NEVER did it prior to transition. Part of it was my upbringing, part was my repulsion at my particular genitalia. Once on T, however, it was impossible to avoid. I think, had I not learned to overcome my negative feelings concerning masturbation, I would've ended up in an asylum from the excess sexual frustration. Inevitably, what I realized was that I would never have the penis I wanted, so I might as well learn how to be happy with what I have. It worked. Now the only genital "dysphoria" I have concerns thoughts of having sex with other people.
SD
Sebastien
I too had a rather sheltered upbringingand I hadnt really figured that in. As a kid you really didnt mention the nether regions and god forbid you had a conversation about them. I think I even learnt about the birds and the bees from a book and not a conversation so that probably had a bit to do with my views on masturbation. I just always felt very strange from the rest of my girl friends who really seemed to enjoy it and was wondering if it were just me or if it were othere FTMs too.
I even had a problem when getting changed for gym class - I just couldnt change in front of the other girls. For years I put that down to being a lesbian and that I didnt feel comfortable because the other girls might think i was looking at them... Now I rethink those moments and realise - I was in the wrong change room!! Thats why I was uncomfortable.
I just keep thinking - so many clues... So naive. I feel like my sub consconsious mind is going "well duh, idiot. if you hadve listened to me years ago..." Anyone else think hindsight is a beautiful thing??
Cheers Jay
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
I never understood why it was so different for the person I was with and yet to me always felt so strange. Like at times good obviously but essentially strange. Another revelation was that I have never liked my "breasts" being touched. Just all these things that I had never really thought of, like when I am with a partner, or even alone in order to reach the top I need to imagine heterosexual encounters, where I was always the man.
Yep.
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
When I first came out as a lesbian – I always felt like it never really "fit" properly, like that wasn't supposed to be me.
I've never identified as a lesbian either... that just wasn't what I was. But, I also never saw myself as gay for liking women.
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
So many thoughts I have been having... Does anyone else feel as daft as me for not realising sooner??
I knew it all along, but I tried to subdue it. I was born in a female body so I felt I was trapped and could do nothing about it. Then I realised I
could do something about it to show the world- and myself- the real me. I do wish I had learned of my options sooner.
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 15, 2009, 06:39:20 PMAnd then I had the conversation with my psych whom I was seeing for depression and anxiety – I asked if maybe at least some of the problems I have had over the years could be a result of the gender identity issues I have felt and... ding ding ding – we have a winner!!
Here too.
Post Merge: July 16, 2009, 08:18:00 AM
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 16, 2009, 02:15:34 AM
I even had a problem when getting changed for gym class - I just couldnt change in front of the other girls.
Yep. I felt as uncomfortable as a guy would be changing around women. It was also hard and embarrassing for me if a woman saw me nude. ^-^
Ah, the good ol' hindsight inspired facepalm! I can relate to that :laugh:
I've always known the sort of man I wanted to grow in to since I was a child, but at the same time (perhaps due to a liberal upbringing and early sex education) I was always aware that I was not born into the body that would allow for it to happen.
Knowing what genes are in the 1st grade sort of kills off any childhood delusions about "really being a boy". Sometimes I slightly envy those of you who got sex ed later on. I missed out on ever thinking I was just the same as the other boys and got to feel like an outcast early.
I got fed up with it all and seriously considered a "sex change" at 15, but decided against it for years because I thought I was too short to ever pass. I used my male name and was myself online to try to have an outlet... but now 10 years later I find myself having to transition regardless in order to function! I'm keeping the name though - I still like it as much now as I did back then :)
In wonderful high-def-hindsight, it's damn obvious I'd be happier, more productive, and able to reach my potential after I transtioned. However, at this age I am appreciating the journey and the unusual experiances more than I would if I had done it younger.
Regarding sex, I'm just not that into it, and I sure as hell don't want another relationship (once was enough... I'm just not cut out for it). Contact to the mentioned areas is not a sensation I enjoy, even before I came out to myself. That doesn't mean I don't have feelings for someone out there I find very attractive that are in no way mutual... just means I don't actually have a desire to do anything with them that would get you arrested if you did it in public :laugh:.
When it came to getting changed for gym class I always hid in a stall. Not because of any attraction to any of my classmates, but because of the shame of what I was hiding under my uniform.
I find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition. Hump a pillow, buy a vibrator, get a strap on and jack it off, get a massaging shower head, sit on the washer during the spin cycle, get your bf/gf/pal on the phone to talk dirty about your massive cock, chat it up online w/ someone and live our your fantasy male identity...
Quote from: Mister on July 16, 2009, 10:29:15 AM
I find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition. Hump a pillow, buy a vibrator, get a strap on and jack it off, get a massaging shower head, sit on the washer during the spin cycle, get your bf/gf/pal on the phone to talk dirty about your massive cock, chat it up online w/ someone and live our your fantasy male identity...
I do agree that there are lots of ways to get off that don't require touching the parts you're uncomfortable with, but as someone who was sexually abused growing up, I also understand that sometimes it's not about the sensation, it's about the conflict in your mind. Our brain is our biggest, most powerful, and ultimately most *important* sexual organ. If it is disfunctional, misfiring, or just stuck behind a wall (for whatever reason), then getting off becomes less about the physical reaction, and more about arousal, feeling sexy in your skin, etc.
I have struggled in the past with having consensual sex feel "predatory" or illiciting flashbacks, and so I understand the feeling of "I'm turned on, but even *thinking* of doing anything about it just creeps me right out and puts me off the mood". But that being said, I've worked really hard to come to a place that I'm comfortable being sexual and have for the most part learned how to deal with those flashes of "eww" that come up and try to derail things.
I think the important thing is to do what you're comfortable with, and don't do what you're not comfortable with, but still leave room to at least consider trying to slowly, gently, push your envelope a little further and learn how to respond to that "wall" that pops up when you push farther than your comfort level. If you believe that you'll never be able to get past the disphoria, and just let it have control of your body (even if it has the wrong parts, as a whole it is still your body, and you have a right to feel at home in it), then that's where you'll stay. Trying to push the boundaries is not easy, but ask yourself if it's worth it to you to at least try. For some people it's not worth it, and that's completely valid too (I'm not saying that anyone "has to" or even "should" push the boundaries, just suggesting it as a possible action for those who *are* interested in breaking down those walls).
No matter what you do or don't do, the only value of "right" or "wrong" is: what's right for YOU. :)
QuoteI find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition. Hump a pillow, buy a vibrator, get a strap on and jack it off, get a massaging shower head, sit on the washer during the spin cycle, get your bf/gf/pal on the phone to talk dirty about your massive cock, chat it up online w/ someone and live our your fantasy male identity...
Im sorry if I was misunderstood, I didnt mean I probably couldnt get off, it was as Braedon said a head thing. It has never been about the physical stuff - well not entirely... I guess I just always felt inadequate, like I was doing the wrong thing when with a partner. I am extremely self conscious. I guess now looking at the feeling of doing the wrong thing comes from having the wrong parts... There's that goddam hindsight slappin' again.
QuoteYep. I felt as uncomfortable as a guy would be changing around women. It was also hard and embarrassing for me if a woman saw me nude.
I have avoided female anythings - doctors, dentists, bosses, everything - I dont know I guess I am afraid of them. The docs especially - coz of the whole nude thing. I have never liked what I see in a mirror, and not just because I am slightly pudgy. I avoided mirrors for years too.
QuoteWhen it came to getting changed for gym class I always hid in a stall.
Me too brother.
I guess its just a matter of finding me now. And what makes me comfortable. (Any suggestions!!!!) Its amazing for years I thought that this - all these feelings - were just me and that I was like the strangest person on the planet. It is very uplifting to know I am not now nor was I ever alone by the sounds of it.
Cheers guys, this place is such a lifesaver.
Jay
QuoteI find it very, very, very hard to believe that you can't find some way of getting off pre transition.
Well, I can only speak for myself on this matter...
If it were a case of "feel the need but can't seal the deal" I'd have it sorted out long ago. It's not about the equipment anymore - the suggested "different ways of looking at things" from the last time this subject came up were very helpful. It's a matter of unrepressing and integrating that aspect of my identity. Once that's sorted I should end up pretty normal (it's the last unresolved issue I can identify, anyway).
To even get to the point of finding someone attractive in that way is an improvement from "ARGH IT'S ALL BROKEN! RUN SCREAMING!" :laugh:
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 16, 2009, 12:49:53 PM
Cheers guys, this place is such a lifesaver.
^This^ ;D
QuoteSo many thoughts I have been having... Does anyone else feel as daft as me for not realising sooner??
I knew it all along, but I tried to subdue it. I was born in a female body so I felt I was trapped and could do nothing about it. Then I realised I could do something about it to show the world- and myself- the real me. I do wish I had learned of my options sooner.
Yep this is exactly true for me too. In fact a lot of what people have been saying in this thread has really resonated with me. I struggled with depression and self loathing for years because I never felt I had an identity, I hated myself because I wasn't the person who I truly am and it all makes so much sense now. I am 100% happier and self assured now since I have come out, I won't pretend it is easy but what ever is that is worth having in the end. Since I have been on T I have just felt right somehow I know it is just what my body needs, has always craved.
I do feel angry sometimes that I had the wrong hormonal balance in my body for so many years when I could have felt like this but you have to process your anger and talking to people whether it's a therapist, a supportive partner or family member or you guys who all understand what I am going through really helps.
There are still days when I feel I have to prove my masculinity whereas I would have the luxury of being able to take it for granted if I were born biologically male or times when I crave validation as a male from a society who because I do not pass 100% yet throws everything at me to tell me I am not and this is even within my own family! But it doesn't matter what anyone thinks because eventually in the end they will come to see what is inevitable that I am a man just like any other man just one that happened to be born with typically female genitalia. Your nature is what makes you what you are, your innate sense of self, it is how you identify that matters. And passing helps a lot with societies perception of you yes but what is important is what you know you are, how you feel inside. And no one can ever take that from you.
Quotewhat is important is what you know you are, how you feel inside. And no one can ever take that from you.
So true milliontoone. I believe this, I just wish I could live it! I would like to think I know who I am but the truth is that I dont... I have an idea. I guess I am just having a difficult time coming out to myself... and all these thoughts just keep swirling around my head. One minute I will be adament - I know I am FTM, and then in the next hour I have the thought that Im being rediculous - its not possible, your just very masculine/butch. Argh, Im so confused!
All you guys seem so comfortable and accepting (now, I dont say it has/hasnt always been that way for you all) - how did you come to terms with accepting yourself?? Was it a case of I accept that I am who I am and I have to transition? Was it a case of go forward as the real me or drown as I am now? Im not looking for answers. I just keep thinking every now and again - maybe I can just go on as I am... I dont need to change my appearance etc. And then again the next minute I cant stand how I look and how I am perceived! Oh jeeze - Im screwed arent I!! So messed up.
You are all so corageous, I am so scared Im going to lose. Whether it be friends, family, co workers etc. I know everyone says if you lose friends over who you are they are not worth having, but your family... I already lost out when I came out as lesbian and worked hard to claim them back. But now... Im scared.
Im still amazed I am not alone in my feelings. So many times I just thought I was such a strange specimen... Such a weird girl, or not even a girl! (Duh, again) So many times I thought that someone would realise that a big mistake had been made and I would grow into a boy. And for years I have been hating my chest and saying I wanted a hysto as "Im never gonna use it!" So many clues now... But I guess everyone has these little things and go, Duh.
I wish they taught you this kinda crap in sex ed... At least people might be more accepting if it were more known and not such a taboo. And then people who felt that way would be able to explore their options before needing a lot a therapy - like myself...
Jay
(as a side note I meant to say nice hair cut Braedon! Thats how I started and wait it will get shorter and shorter!!)
hindsight inspired facepalm ;D that made me chuckle
I was just sorta browsing the internet and reading about hormones for one reason or another and I suddenly got a feeling of "holy crap, I'm a transsexual, DUH"
Actually I just remembered why I was reading about it...I was trolling a friend of mine in to believing I was a MTF so I was educating myself in order to be a better troll...I had no idea of the options until then, the feeling of wanting to be a boy was just a fleeting wish and invaded my dreams. Never thought it'd be a reality in a million years.
That was an odd chain of events now I think about it.
QuoteI was just sorta browsing the internet and reading about hormones for one reason or another and I suddenly got a feeling of "holy crap, I'm a transsexual, DUH"
Actually I just remembered why I was reading about it...I was trolling a friend of mine in to believing I was a MTF so I was educating myself in order to be a better troll...
:o Dude!! The look on your face must have been priceless. I definitly feel you with the whole duh feeling!! lol And yeah it is really amazing when you realise - there are options.
Its still a feeling of a million years away for me, but at least Im exploring my options...
Jay
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 16, 2009, 02:15:34 AM
I even had a problem when getting changed for gym class - I just couldnt change in front of the other girls. For years I put that down to being a lesbian and that I didnt feel comfortable because the other girls might think i was looking at them... Now I rethink those moments and realise - I was in the wrong change room!! Thats why I was uncomfortable.
I loved gym class, if only for the locker rooms. Of course, I NEVER changed in front of the chicks in the class... I just watched them get changed, and I suppose if they or the teacher had known, I would've been excommunicated from the order of girls' gym lol. In middle school, I always changed in a bathroom stall... which was problematic the day I accidentally dropped my shirt in the toilet, and wore my gym shirt the rest of the day. In high school, I mastered the art of changing shirts without baring my torso at all. Good times.
SD
QuoteI always changed in a bathroom stall... which was problematic the day I accidentally dropped my shirt in the toilet, and wore my gym shirt the rest of the day.
You poor bugger!! I remember a few times where I would be changing and be like half naked and realise I had forgotten something in my bag which wasn't in the stall with me... So many times I got in trouble for being late to class - but pretty sure I never dropped anything in.
I think if that had have been me, knowing the kind of teen I was - I would have flipped out and had to have been sent home :-\ and that would have been yet another issue I would have discussed with a therapist way back when...
Come to think of it now - my parents took me to heaps of docs and shrinks when I was just pre teen and into my teens. I reckon they knew/know I'm different. Does anyone else get the same sort of feelings?? Like the people around them know something is up??
Jay
Quote from: jaydle83 on July 17, 2009, 01:00:13 AM
Does anyone else get the same sort of feelings?? Like the people around them know something is up??
Well, I'm out so it's "knew something was up" :).
As a teenager I got the "it's ok to be a lesbian" talk. I fit none of the criteria of "lesbian". I told 'em I wasn't a lesbian, I didn't even have enough in common with females to hang out with them, but they didn't believe me.
After the ex and I broke it off, I decided it was time to figure my issues out, stop femming it up (which I sucked at anyway), and just go back to being myself. My mom is putting me up while I study before my job starts next year, so for the first time in 8 years she's been seeing a lot of me. She bailed me up in the kitchen one day crying and shaking because she thought I was suicidal!
She said that if she were in my position (mid 20's, single, and over the ex), she'd be out looking for another partener. She was worried that I was still dressing "badly" (ie, still dressing male), not doing female grooming things, and generally had a distracted, preoccupied look (like I was contemplating something really big).
So yeah, she (and many other people around) figured something was "up". She was just way, way, off on what it was!
Of course, I came out - thinking that knowing I was happy to have finally accepted myself and going after what I want in life instead of suicidal would make her feel better. Yeah... :laugh:
Hmm... nah. My family always seemed blissfully oblivious of anything that was going on with me. As long as I was somewhat respectful of them and pretended to be happy on the outside, they didn't say anything about it. And god, Teknoir, it's okay to be a lesbian? For me, my mother found some random journal entry I'd written when I was 19, and put me through an hour-long interrogation, followed by a lecture about how god wants us to be straight. My folks always waited until it was too late to help me, like when I endured ten years of suffering through bipolar disorder & finally had a nervous breakdown at 23... my mother told me to snap out of it. I had to scream at her repeatedly for hours that if she didn't get me some help, I was going to slit my own throat. I WISH I had people around who could just clue into how I was feeling, and actually want to help.
Oh, and I also get the "badly dressed" comments, particularly from my mother... even after a year on T, she thinks I would look really nice in a dress. Go figure.
SD
Quote from: Sebastien on July 17, 2009, 04:25:14 PM
... even after a year on T, she thinks I would look really nice in a dress. Go figure.
This made me bust a gut. If you have any brothers, I wonder if your mom would say that to them... Lol ;D
(now I have this hilarous mental image of my brothers in dresses... Awesome. :P)
Oh, I have 3 brothers, but only one who lives at home. He's 19, 6'5", and about 275lbs... I'd LOVE to see him in a dress!
Quote from: Sebastien on July 17, 2009, 04:25:14 PM
And god, Teknoir, it's okay to be a lesbian?
Not only from my mother, but from pretty much all of my family at one stage or another! I fail at "looking normal" :laugh:.
Sure, my mother was shocked at first, then ashamed, but judging by the number of penis jokes that are getting thrown my way in the last 2 weeks, she's hit acceptance.
It did take her some time to come to terms with it though. Lesbian would have been accepted straight off, but she needed some time to accept trans. What has helped her come to accept it has been her seeing me much happier and functioning.
I'm 25, so the family aren't helping me directly with my transition - but they aren't standing in my way either. They're helping me with general living until I get back on my feet (spare room to crash in, food, internet, etc) and that's really all the help I would take, even if more were offered. I consider this part of my journey into independant adulthood (take 2... :laugh:), and I'd like to get there with pride :). There's a time to swallow your pride and accept charity, and there's a time to say no and bootstrap it yourself.
No offense ment to anyone who has accepted help, of course. Everybodies situation is different.
I've done the nervous breakdown thing twice myself between 15 and 17 (about a year apart). It takes it's toll on you. But just as you would with a physical wound - you have to stop picking at the mental scabs eventually and let it heal. Speaking from almost 10 years on from the fact, I can say it does heal if you let it. It will be a distant memory eventually, and you'll be stronger for it. I was also told to snap out of it a the time. Told I was "stonger than that, so knock it off". My mother even cried on my shoulder saying "Where did I go wrong?".... it wasn't a very nice thing to hear, and it does hurt. It took me a while to forgive her.
It sucks that your family is so... errr..... (geez, how do I put this diplomatically?)... unaccepting. I'm not christian, but even I find it distastful and sad to say the least when people hide behind dogma and what is supposed to be a tolerant loving god as an excuse for their own bigotry. I really hope they come around to acceptance, but there's not much you can do except be who you are, be happy about it, and hope they see the changes in you in a more positive light.
I was baptised and did all the catholic-ish stuff growing up and as soon as I was no longer forced to go to church, I didn't. I don't understand how I can be taught about how God created everyone equally and "man" in his own image etc, and then the die hard Christian fanatics are so eager to pass judgement.
If they believe the teachings that God created us in his own image - am I not exactly the person, and the way I was always meant to be?? Is this not my journey??
I will never forget a chick at uni, a born again Christian coming up to me and saying that God had come to her in a dream and told her to take me to church with her... Needless to say I "politely declined". I just can't understand who they can be so predudiced and put it all down to the word of God. I've read the same books and listened to the same teachings and I would like to think I'm a pretty accepting person.
Its awesome that some of your families have come to acceptance. That is like THE biggest fear I have... My family has come to accept me being a "lesbian". I came out when I was 19 and it kind of went down like a lead balloon at the time... I too have received jokes in the past few years - which leads me to believe they have hit acceptance.
Not really sure how this will go down... But as stated previously I reckon they have always known I was different - very different. Not so sure they will/would ever figure this out but.
Jay