Today was an interesting day, I think. Some friends and I got together and starting discussing transition, what we have accomplished and much, much more. Then someone started talking about the possible regrets of SRS and she, in fact, suggested that we read this:
Regrets of SRS (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html)
I don't know about you guys, and I don't mean to offend anyone. ...but with all the criteria for diagnosis available today, the many therapy sessions we go through, the hormone treatments, the RLT, a person would have to be REALLY RETARDED OR SIMPLY CRAZY to go through all this and then find out that he/she made a mistake. If this is in fact possible, I wouldn't hesitate one bit to lock this person up in the white room for good! I mean what is this about? sheesh! >:(
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
I think that this isn't such a bad thing. I can remember seeing Richards in the news when she came out. Although I was fascinated that she "became a woman", after seeing her, I knew for sure that I wasn't one of those!
All that aside however, this article should be read. I read it with no discomfort. I was forced to read other accounts while I lived in Utah however that were total counterfiets. In these accounts, individuals came back from being gay and/or TS to return to their faith. I'm not saying anything was wrong with a person's belief system. I'm saying the crap I read was crap.
But Tinker, I'll have to agree with you. I can't imagine anyone going through a year or more of full time living and making the wrong decision. There's nothing wrong finding yourself to be a CD and will always get turned on by getting dressed up. That's an easier row to hoe to be sure.... even in heels. I'm very pleased to see members of this forum find these limits.
Cindi
Hey Tinkerbell,
That was a great article, I really enjoyed it. I have heard people talk about those who have regretted their decision, but that is the first time I have actually heard someone say they regretted it.
It seems the one thing they all have in common is unrealistic beleifs about what SRS is and what it does to your body. I disagree with this notion that the internet is somehow bad for TS's and is promoting it. I have seen just the opposite. I have seen those like you, questioning people like me with just this type of information and saying "hey!!! you are in this demographic, are you sure about what you are feeling?". It is almost another level of transition to get through. I find it hard to beleive that someone could transition, be a part of a community like this, and do it for the wrong reasons. I mean that is practically all we do here, discuss what it is that makes someone TS. We all really want to make sure we are doing the right thing.
Anyway, great thread and great information.
Love always,
Elizabeth
It is good to question what you are doing at every step of the journey. The problem is, there is a 'myth' out there that if the transtioner ever wavers, ever expresses doubts, they will not get the necessary letters and access to the surgery to feel 'complete'. So many learn to put their doubt in denial, the same way they put their transsexuality in denial.
Karen
Good point Karen. I felt that I had to hide all doubt at first, but now I feel much freer to express when I'm not feeling all gung ho for this--hence my "Sometimes I want to curl up and die" thread. I guess it doesn't matter if somebody disagrees with me, because I know who I am. I feel confident that I tried my hardest all my life to be male and it just simply didn't work out. I also note how I love living life as a female. My reasons for getting SRS are far from sexual and honestly, if I end up non-orgasmic, then that's fine, but I am going to try and maximize my chances be going to a good surgeon. I already am experiencing most of the benefits of transitioning and I only consider SRS (as in the cliche) "icing on the cake". I'm certain my parents have read that article before and it may actually be one of the key reasons for how they treat me. I am hoping that after SRS, they will see that I'm not one of those cases, and stop treating my like dirt.
Melissa
I believe that some do it for the wrong reason. I have known two that have had the surgery and about year later have regretted it. One committed suicide. I looked at it for a long time and thought could I just dress. I found out that it wasn't about the dressing nor the sex or anything like that. It was about me. It was about who I have been all my life. Some told me that I make a better guy than a girl. I'm big and would make the ugliest girl. I thought about that hard very hard as I wouldn't be able to pass that well. I talked it over with my therapist and I came to the conclusion that I would rather be the uglyist girl and be happy with myself than be a guy who is very unhappy with who he was. Always looking depressed and not likeing what I see. I had the surgery and the minute I woke up and felt that I had a vagina and not a penis I was in heaven. I felt relieved and happy within myself. I cried very happy tears and was excited about my new life. I knew I still had some barriers to cross, but they were minor. I'm still very happy with how things came out and I have been post op for over 2 years now. I only wished I could have done this sooner.
Sheila
Those letters were good food for thought. One thing I know is I have not lost my libido, its different now than when I had T in me. I feel my current libido is more true to who I am.
I think that the bottom line is that we are all human, and at some point in our lives we have always experienced regret over something that we have done or failed to do. Some of these are career choices, lovers, wives and husbands, other relationships, converting to or joining a religion, clubs and associations, investments and other financial issues, and no doubt many more. Even some of these can have such a dramatic effect on our lives that they too can lead to suicide or other harmful actions.
One issue that is hard to cope with is that our minds are so complicated that once a seed has been planted, and it is nurtured so that it grows strong and healthy, the final result is often not realized until it blooms, and by then it is too late. Humans are great at convincing themselves over issues like this. Some are so convincing that professionals are even fooled by the seemingly rational being before them. There aren't many safe guards out there and it's too bad that the one that we do have are seen by some as "barriers set up by gatekeepers" but heck what else is there. How often have we heard "I should know what's best for me", "Who knows me better that me", "I'm an adult and I know what's best" etc. We see it all the time, heck I was even one of those.
Therapy, letters and HRT is one thing, but I truly believe that the best safe guard that we have is the "Real Life Test or Experience". I firmly believe that TS should be required to live one full year not only in their gender but in all aspects of life from relationships to employment as what the heck do you have to loose. Granted even then there may be those who still suffer regrets after SRS but I believe that the safe guards in place now do work.
Steph
Steph, you are so right. You can do so much to make sure of what you are doing and still fall into something that is not you. Even after surgery you go through some things in your mind. You change and no matter how long you have been on RLT you can not go through these changes until you have had surgery. So you should really know what you are getting yourself into as there is no going back. This is why they suggest some threrapy after GRS. I will help some. I never had it as I'm ecstatic about my change and I am no longer depressed. I had some problems about a year afterwards, but got over them.
Sheila
It is ridiculous to assume that we can have a 100% success rate with gender transition or SRS. Mistakes will happen (unfortunately) no matter how carefully the process is managed or the candidates evaulated. So there are a few who have regrets. It's my understanding that these people make up less than 1% of people who undergo SRS--though I don't know if anyone has done a definitive study. I'm certain this falls into an acceptable range for success rates compared to other medical procedures. For all we know, it may be better than average which is pretty amazing when you consider the complexity of gender disorders compared to many other medical conditions. The Standard of Care prevents anyone from impulsively having genital surgery though a determined person can bluff their way through the system. Lastly, since GID is not a black and white situation but must occur in many shades of grey just like any other physical trait. There will be people where the choice for SRS is not at all clear, and no easy or conclusive choice is possible. These people are probably at the greatest risk for regret.
I have no regrets that I had SRS. There was a substantial period of adjustment but overall, my life is better, I'm happier as I am now, and most of all, I can't conceive of going back. I'm a woman and now I have the body to match.
Dawn
at some point in our lives we have always experienced regret over something that we have done or failed to do.
================
oh kay........everyone here is going to jump on me for this............
"I" just know it........
and no........."I" am not trying to be a smartass............not..........trying to stir-the-pot.
BUT?
"I"? personally?????????????
NO!
at 53 yrs,.............."I" have called my shots in my life...when I did it...why I did it.........how I did it.......the BEST I could..........at THAT precise pinpoint minute..........with the most knowledge of the events..........
so........................"I".................have................NO regrets.!!!
but this is JUST me as a street kid.
tAke care out there
Quote from: veronica06 on September 17, 2006, 10:22:14 PM
NO!
at 53 yrs,.............."I" have called my shots in my life...when I did it...why I did it.........how I did it.......the BEST I could..........at THAT precise pinpoint minute..........with the most knowledge of the events..........
so........................"I".................have................NO regrets.!!!
Ahhhh...that's what I am talking about..... thank you Veronica and good for you and for me! ;D
If people are going to have regrets, hopefully those regrets will show during the RLT and before SRS and not years after the endless therapy sessions, the hormone injections, the breast augmentation, FFS, and SRS. If there is something I feel when I read stories like the ones on the article is a feeling of disbelief and anger towards the ignorance of some people. >:(
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
if I offend anyone???????
I do apologize.
but "I" was taught by my elders...(ok I am old school) that you make the best of any event...and don't look back to 2nd guess yourself.
it just doesn't pay.
"I" am just one...when I lie on my death bed,,,guessing I am lucid enough......
I will be able to die with a clear conscience,...........knowing I did what I could..with what I had to do it with.
take care
There will always be mistakes, the medical system is not infallable and some people will be wrongly diagnosed.
I personally know 2 people who regret having SRS, one being openly Gay andthe other being Autogynaphelic. Both had SRS misgudedly and where supported by the medical establishment because thats what the patient initially wanted.
My only regret is not transitioning earlier...
Buffy
;D
Quote from: veronica06 on September 17, 2006, 10:22:14 PM
at some point in our lives we have always experienced regret over something that we have done or failed to do.
================
oh kay........everyone here is going to jump on me for this............
"I" just know it........
and no........."I" am not trying to be a smartass............not..........trying to stir-the-pot.
BUT?
"I"? personally?????????????
NO!
at 53 yrs,.............."I" have called my shots in my life...when I did it...why I did it.........how I did it.......the BEST I could..........at THAT precise pinpoint minute..........with the most knowledge of the events..........
so........................"I".................have................NO regrets.!!!
but this is JUST me as a street kid.
tAke care out there
Veronica why on earth would anyone jump on you :) . To some degree I would agree.
Steph
Veronica why on earth would anyone jump on you . To some degree I would agree.
Steph
---------------
why..........well because I have found...some...................people tend to be thin skinned and take offense at some things I feel.
Quote from: veronica06 on September 18, 2006, 07:06:26 AM
why..........well because I have found...some...................people tend to be thin skinned and take offense at some things I feel.
It happens from time to time. But I'll tell you that I welcome fresh thought and controversy. It tends to liven things up. I'l listen to anyone with a good opinion that differs. I'll shut the door on hate.
Cindi
What gets me is people who blame the doctors and professionals for it. Talk about not taking responsibility for your own decisions. If you're not sure, don't do it. Simple as that. If you did it, take responsibility for your own bad decision.
People who are having difficulty living as a woman and think that SRS will change that are deluding themselves. People don't see your genitals. They will react the same way to your visible self that they did before SRS.
I haven't yet heard of a single case of FtM regret. I wonder why. The testosterone certainly has a marked, irreversible effect, so you'd think that T therapy, given to someone who was not stable could cause it. Although I don't know that there's an equivalent to ->-bleeped-<- in FtM's. And, genital surgery is not that common among FtM's. Or maybe the regretters are out there and I just haven't seen anything about them.
Dennis
ya know, they give ya that...waiting time...when ya buy a car..in case ya change your mind.
well sweetheart,...once your male thingie is gone...ya can't come get it back.
and hun,..once ya have that twidget changed,,and make it look like your boy cousins...ya ain't gonna get THAT back either.
ya got 1 shot in this life.
if ya screw it up....it is YOUR doing.
from the time you open your eyes...to when you actually fall asleep.............EVERYTHING in life is a CHOICE baby.
only being born...and dying............is a have-to.
so think once.................think twice.............ask someone else and think again.
make 100% sure you want what ya want.
THEN I'll stand by ya.
======
me?
sweety, I have waited since I can first remember,...I hate being a male.
I wanna be a girl.................
and at 50 plus years,..I know my own heart.
take care
Veronica, I agree with you, because that's precisely the point I was getting at. I know who I am. I tried my hardest the other way. So far, I have absolutely no regrets. When I get the surgery, if I'm not happy, well, I did it, so I'll have nobody to blame but myself. However, I know precisely what I am doing and I'm not looking back because you can't change the past. You can only learn from it.
Melissa
Quote from: Dennis on September 18, 2006, 09:41:17 AM
What gets me is people who blame the doctors and professionals for it. Talk about not taking responsibility for your own decisions. If you're not sure, don't do it. Simple as that. If you did it, take responsibility for your own bad decision.
Dennis
That gets me too! >:( and I agree with what your wrote 100%. You nailed it, Dennis!
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
tinker:
gracias por tu coraje! well done :)
cindianna, elizabeth, karen, sheila, steph, veronica, dennis:
for myself only, i found 100% agreement and total respect for your experience and advice, all of you.
This is the real reason why i joinned Susan's, i do not need frothy and frosty strokes to my ego. Am 51 and have no regrets yet i would be a fool not to study and consider this aspect
In my life i have been encouraged to SRS because is a way to show who i really am, for the gay cause, to liberate myself, to really be OUT, 2b true 2 my self blah blah
most of the TS people (the ones i talk in person here in my city ok) i talk live in denial that society will be understanding and accepting "because that is the right way for society to be"
i know where I'll be when i finally do
is wonderful to be part of a community that is real
please do not take it personally if i did not mention your name, i was stroked by the 100% agreement with those above
thanks for being there or is it here? whatever, thanks
sheila18
QuoteI haven't yet heard of a single case of FtM regret. I wonder why.
I think part of the problem for those few MTFs who regret it is that they don't pass, and therefore aren't comfortable with their bodies. FTMs overwhelmingly pass--if I tried to wear a dress, I'd look like a crossdresser and people would stare at me. I don't think that's all of the problem for the regretters; some of them seem to have deep psychological problems that should have been taken care of before they took this drastic step.
QuoteDramatic? I don't know. what came to my mind when I saw this video was "Psycho!"
Yes, and these people make transsexuals of sound mind look bad. This is precisely the reason I hate daytime talk shows!
and why are there no instances of FtM regret?? *giggling*....could it be that men have such a difficult time admitiing when they are wrong??
This one was just too easy!!
*winks* Malana
This is a letter my therapist once gave to me which kind of opened my eyes. I don't know the original source:
Transitioning: A Transsexual's Reflections
No other group is so punished for seeking medical treatment.
The diagnosis in the medical manual, DSM IV, is 302.85: Gender Identity Dysphoria (GID). The indicated treatment is to transition to the appropriate sex. And I believe that the empirical evidence, as well as a whole lot of anecdotal evidence known to me personally, supports the conclusion that the treatment works. Transition will eradicate GID. Case closed.
At the same time, transitioning will change your life profoundly. Some of these changes may clearly be for the better. Some may clearly be for the worse. And some may be difficult to classify.
But there are many medical treatments which have "side effects."The risks must be considered and measured against the benefit of the treatment. I believe that the enticement for getting out of the prison of GID is so powerful that no risk seems too great.
I've never regretted transitioning for a moment, and that's because I have never forgotten the pain of GID. I am aware that there are transwomen who rail in frustration against the seemingly impossible odds we face in certain areas of life. I am among them.
For example, it's a long shot for any middle-aged or older woman to enter into a long-term romantic relationship, and most of them don't have the "nuclear bomb" to drop that I do. I have, therefore, concluded that it is virtually impossible for me to find a new romantic partner.
Am I upset about this? Yes. Does it make me angry, frustrated, and resentful? Yes. As bad as my prospects were before I transitioned, are they worse now? Probably.
Do I regret transitioning? No, because I remember the pain.
I suspect that those who claim to regret transitioning have forgotten the pain. Face it: GID will not simply go away. It has to be accepted and handled somehow, so that the basic quality of one's life is enhanced.
I myself simply cannot tolerate living while at the same time not really living.
So transitioning is fundamentally worth it for me.
I'll handle the rest somehow.
Wonderful words...
Quote from: Kate's postI've never regretted transitioning for a moment, and that's because I have never forgotten the pain of GID
A very powerful statement indeed. Anything can be bearable, except GID, for it is like a fire that burns you alive bit by bit until you are completely consumed to nothing.
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Yes, those are very wise words. I have never forgotten the pain and I have recorded the pain in my diary if I ever am to forget. I do not regret it for a moment either. Thanks for sharing that Kate. I think everybody should record what the pain is like, just so they have something to remind them why they transitioned.
Melissa
I had read that before, as a test I stopped everything, I could not stand myself so back on the HRT and my path is clear. My only concern now is my family.
Quote from: ssindysmith on October 02, 2006, 02:14:18 PM
I had read that before, as a test I stopped everything, I could not stand myself so back on the HRT and my path is clear. My only concern now is my family.
For how long did you manage to stop? How did you feel when you did?
Quote from: Kate on October 02, 2006, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: ssindysmith on October 02, 2006, 02:14:18 PM
I had read that before, as a test I stopped everything, I could not stand myself so back on the HRT and my path is clear. My only concern now is my family.
For how long did you manage to stop? How did you feel when you did?
Almost 6 months, I was miserable it took about 3 weeks to get back to myself some what its been well over a year with no regrets.
I don't need to stop to know that I would be miserable. Just the thought alone scares me. :icon_nervious:
Melissa
Just trying to follow some good advice, all it got me was 6 months of hell.
Quote from: ssindysmith on October 02, 2006, 02:44:35 PM
Just trying to follow some good advice, all it got me was 6 months of hell.
I wasn't saying you did anything wrong and I commend those who are able to go through "the trial". In fact, I always thought the fact that I couldn't do the trial, may have been foolish of me. All I know is that I'm much happier than I was and I can look at what it was like before HRT. That's astounding that you lasted 6 months. I've heard of people having trouble with as short of a period as 3 weeks.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on October 02, 2006, 02:42:50 PM
I don't need to stop to know that I would be miserable. Just the thought alone scares me. :icon_nervious:
Coincidentally, I was reading an article earlier this morning on the Melanie Phillips site regarding hormones. The writer suggested that it's a good idea to take a one-month break a few months into HRT to be sure it isn't just an initial "hormone high" that's providing the feelings of peace and well-being.
In any case, it perhaps seems a prudent way to compare and contrast the two mindsets before continuing for good? I often think that one's reaction to *stopping* may prove more educational then when starting.
Well, I did experience the initial "hormone high" and that has definitely worn off. Now I just feel calm and peaceful. The idea of being irritable, crabby, losing breast tissue, and having the anger inside me again just scares me silly. I honestly don't think I could survive it. I absolutely abhorred it. Oh god, and the erections!!! Nightmares, nightmares, nightmares.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on October 02, 2006, 03:03:57 PM
Well, I did experience the initial "hormone high" and that has definitely worn off. Now I just feel calm and peaceful. The idea of being irritable, crabby, losing breast tissue, and having the anger inside me again just scares me silly. I honestly don't think I could survive it. I absolutely abhorred it. Oh god, and the erections!!! Nightmares, nightmares, nightmares.
Melissa
Ditto
I ended up going off for 6 months, it wasnt a test, there was allot more than I'll probably ever say or admit to about that period... yeah Ive said it all before so I'll keep it short. It was total hell, I dont recomend it, the moment you realize you were doing the right thing, jump back on and dont look back, and dont wait...
*Hugs ssindysmith*
That had to be horrable, you didnt go suicidal or anything like I did I hope?
I must be in the extreme minority, or I have just never been that far down because of my carisma, but suicidal thoughts have NEVER entered my mind no matter what has happen to me, I guess I am have a positive fighting spirit.
Quote from: ssindysmith on October 09, 2006, 07:33:08 AM
I must be in the extreme minority, or I have just never been that far down because of my carisma, but suicidal thoughts have NEVER entered my mind no matter what has happen to me, I guess I am have a positive fighting spirit.
Yes, it must be a fighting spirit.... either that, or legs that go clear up to there with no torso or head.
Cheers
Chin up!
Cindi
Quote from: Cindianna_Jones on October 09, 2006, 01:18:42 PM
Quote from: ssindysmith on October 09, 2006, 07:33:08 AM
I must be in the extreme minority, or I have just never been that far down because of my carisma, but suicidal thoughts have NEVER entered my mind no matter what has happen to me, I guess I am have a positive fighting spirit.
Yes, it must be a fighting spirit.... either that, or legs that go clear up to there with no torso or head.
Cheers
Chin up!
Cindi
I am blonde at the roots.......... HUH?