Susan's is probably the most active TG forum on the net and probably has the most members. So it's pretty safe to use what we see here as a barometer for the prevalent attitude TGs have.
When I look at the most active threads, the ones with the most replies and views, it seems game types comes up on top. At the other end is personal types. But what is surprising to me is how low Activism falls in this spectrum.
Back in June, I posted "Getting Ma'amed Without Getting Glammed" and expected a few replies and several views. As of today it has 148 replies and over 3000 views! I barely participated in it because the issue doesn't have lasting interest to me. But apparently it does to others.
The basis behind that thread is going out in society and being seen as your female self. No funny looks, no snide remarks, just walking out the door and putting about the same effort into your presentation as any other woman does. In other words, your presence out in the world didn't create any ripples.
If the world was just as accepting of us as the leaves on a tree, that thread would have never even been created, let alone generate any interest. The only way to make the world more tolerant is to be out there and become a common figure. But that takes time and lots of involved people.
Being active in promoting non-discriminatory laws and protections can alleviate the fears of many and encourage them to get out earlier rather than waiting for the social tide to change. But when it comes to issues like ENDA, there seems to be very little activity in those threads. Why?
What I don't understand is, if it is so important to be accepted in society, why aren't there more people at least talking about it? Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe my observations are flawed, but in general, that's what I see here and what I've seen on every TG related forum I've ever been involved in.
Am I blind or do the majority of TGs not care or not want to get involved in promoting a positive social image for us?
Julie
It's always been easier for people to complain than actually do something about it. That's not unique to TG - it's pretty universal, even in the office! :)
Activists have always been a minority; it takes resolute determination, commitment and passion - and usually a fair amount of self-sacrifice. Of course, this refers to real activists, not some random dweeb spitting feathers to the choir from the parapets of their online blog.
(And honestly, I admit that for all my strong opinions, I'm too lazy to pull my arse out of my chair and actually go talk to my local minister of parliament - I hang my head in shame).
I think it's because, at the end of the day, we just want to be "men and women" in the eyes of the world.
A trans-man/woman who is out in the open, drawing attention to their trans-history in order to display that he/she is a normal "inspite" of said history, will be seen as trans first and man/woman later (and there's no guarantee they'll see the right one either).
It's a pretty big thing to ask someone to do.
Being an activist has it's risks. There is no possibility of stealth after that. It requires a degree of self confidence that is far above the norm. Now given the abuse and guilt piled on most of us, chatting up trans rights is not easy to do because it opens us up to more scrutiny. The activist's personal appearance and life style are instantly subject to criticism. How well does she pass? What is the state of her surgery? OMG, she lives with a man, she must have been a flaming gay man before... Look at that hair, she isn't a real woman, no woman would go out looking like that...
I considered my level of activism and settled on my blog, my Facebook page and my books. I give out free copies to people I meet who want to know more about the issue. Some have read it and say that they understand transgender people better.
I'm writing my second book to highlight what it was like to be trans or intersexed in 1906 and comparing it to the almost equal level of ignorance of today.
All that said, I still don't like to go to marches or gay pride events and I certainly won't be giving interviews to the local paper. No, I'll be fine with remote activism, it is safer.
Maggie
For me it has more to do with the way people respond to such threads, political ones. I do a lot of political activism for various causes including LGBT but do not post on the threads here. Some of it may be people like myself that do thier activism off board.
Myles
Who has spent the last 20+ years actively fighting for gay rights.
I, personally, don't feel like I know enough to become a "spoaksperson" in any way and since I would loathe to have someone "uninformed" speaking on my behalf, I don't feel I can do it on the behalf of others. I do try and inform people of "my" situation, and I copypasta a lot of news links that are relevant on the subject, hoping to draw attention to the issues at hand, and I work with my political party to an extent as well.
Maybe later, when I have less "stuff" to deal with, I'll do more.
change the world? important yes. All I can do is work on my little piece of it. somehow posting here isn't going to affect the views of the people whose attitudes I need to change as the people here are already aware and for equal rights. How would talking about it and posting here teach the rest of the world?
Quote from: Maggie Kay on September 10, 2009, 11:16:56 AM
Being an activist has it's risks. There is no possibility of stealth after that.
The activist's personal appearance and life style are instantly subject to criticism. How well does she pass? What is the state of her surgery? OMG, she lives with a man, she must have been a flaming gay man before... Look at that hair, she isn't a real woman, no woman would go out looking like that...
All that said, I still don't like to go to marches or gay pride events and I certainly won't be giving interviews to the local paper. No, I'll be fine with remote activism, it is safer.
Maggie
When I came out at work, there was no way I could be stealth at all anyway. I had worked with most of my co-workers for years prior to my coming out so I decided that I would be the go-to girl when it came to trans information. My bio in the company which is available to the entire staff describes me as trans (and has the picture I use as my avatar).
It's been a couple of years since I came out and there have been some questions from people about transgender information so I hosted a seminar that was recorded and available to the company called "Coming Out as Transgendered".
I have become old news but I am an activist inside the company and a part of the LGBT committee. Though I sometimes feel that I am "playing it safe" because my company and the state I live in are both committed to equal opportunities so there is little that I risk in being out.
I hope that because of what I do that it makes a difference in some small way.
-Sandy
I think each of us has our sphere of influence and we approach it in the best way we can. I have always preferred a relational approach.
Kristi
I've never really been an activist type of person. But I feel like I am doing my part by just being openly myself and talking about it with everyone I can. I've noticed on a small scale that those around me often become more comfotable talking accross gender boundaries - particulalry men start talking about grooming products, hair removal, relationships. I feel like I make it permissive for them. I guess this creates small ripples of change.
I think I am more effective at a micro level. I can't do much for people in africa and don't care too, but I do care about people within my circle of influence.
Also sometimes we are not capable of activisim untill we sort out own 'house' out. A lot of us have not gotten that far yet. I suspect a lot of people that use forums like these are mostly those that are still involved in their journey or are stuck on the path - activisim probably does not seem like a priority.
I'm with Kristi onthe relational approach.
But I agree that this forum can often seem overly dedicated to superficialities. And I recognize that I contribute to that myself. I think the reason is that the political stuff can get to be really painful sometimes, and there tends to be a lot of emotion and infighting. Meanwhile, day-to-day personal struggles are something we pretty much all share, and are often more difficult to discuss with friends. My personal difficulty with my self-image just isn't something that most of my non-trans friends can really relate to, and not something I generally find useful to discuss with them. The political stuff that can get so charged within trans communities, however, is easier to discuss with them.
I have have tons of interest to change the world, but TG issues aren't my thing. Aside from activism in the voting booth, I'll leave that fight to the poster children.
I feel the pressure when I am with cisgendered people to represent transgendered folk in the best ways possible. Those who know of my male bodied past often are more attentive to me than they were before. I am sort of a curiosity to them which makes me sensitive to be pleasant and approachable. Many will ask me "So how is it going?" and of course that means to tell them how my life living as a woman is working out. I don't take offense and give them the most deflective but meaningful answer that I can come up with. They don't mean to pry but they do seem to have some belief that my life is to be a bit of an open book to them. That separates me from being truly in the group and it is difficult to deal with sometimes.
Maggie
I'm defineitely a political activist but my cause is safe access to medical cannabis and decriminalization. I do however respond to anyone who has questions about TG and gender shifting. I live in the Caribbean and there are LBGT issues but we are such a minority that we don't threaten the status quo. When I give my moralaity rap about med MJ I always reference the relation to sexuality and gender. So in a offensive manner I am promoting diversity on a " oh by the way" course.
I'm still on the fence concerning this. It's not that it's not important to me, but is it more important than just being seen as an ordinary guy? I don't know. I don't want to be 'transman Joe' but 'Joe, the man who just happens to be trans'.
Well, there was a time in my life when I wanted to "make a difference" and i concluded, after a time, that few paid much attention to my views and that the world was moving in the direction it was moving despite whatever I could or would do, so for the most part, I got very cynical and pretty much quit trying.
I still argue about "issues" more than I would like to but more often I'm arguing about the nature of the argument than actually addressing the overall point. (i.e. someone using an inaccurate or irrelevant claim to support their position)
Honestly though, I hate myself for being even weak enough to give in to that temptation. For the most part, my philosophy is more "who cares baby?" in the last few years.
That said, I really don't envision - at this point - being really concerned about whether or not I am "stealth" at some point and wouldn't be shy at all about - for instance - being interviewed for the paper or addressing a panel discussion or whatever.
I just don't have any particular passion for it.
Similar to what Kristy said (at least I think it is) it seems to me that we each of us make more difference in the world by living out our lives and letting the world see that we are not the "freaks" they might have been led to believe.
I do not begrudge any woman her stealth cover, but it is still true that women who are actually able to be stealth would do us a world of good by letting the world around them know that being trans doesn't mean being "abnormal"
Right now, I'm just operating on the assumption that I go out my door not making any effort to hide or be sneaky about my transition and put the responsibility on those around me to recognize that I'm not hurting anything by doing so.
Perhaps in so doing, that will be a small effort to "change the world"
I'm right along the lines that Sandy and Nicky put down. I'm not out soliciting newspaper articles on the "trans woman that could", but I'm out in the workplace, the community, and frankly everywhere I go.
I transitioned in a fortune 500 sized company, and *hopefully* have been a stalwart example of what being transgendered means. There is absolutely no possibility of stealth in my workplace, for over 10 years I presented as male there, and then one day, I did not. (well, part of a planned transition with total VP and upper management buy-in). Almost on a daily basis, I talk with people that knew me from prior, and get the explanation of name change, and when meeting, have been nothing but gracious, and within 22 seconds or so of 'first' re-meeting me, we are back to business as usual. But every single day I head to work, I'm an activist. I speak openly about the issues if people ask them, and if I see an issue, I address it.
I have a brochure published by the Human Rights Code folks, labeled "Transgender in the Workplace", posted on my tackboard, ready to take down and present if ever needed if some nuance is needed to talk about in regards to my legal protection / status in my working condition. It's gathered dust. And yes, I realize I'm luckier then most.
But, to the point, being out, being honest and frank (or francine ;D) , and being who you are is one of the best things that each of us can do, IMO. I understand the reasons for those trans folk that choose to go stealth, and you have my blessing, but that really isn't an option for me, nor do I care so much, as I have come to accept that this is a part of me that I carry, and embrace, and those that encounter me, see and know this through my confidence, and comfort level. (*usually, we all have our moments, eh? )
I've also decided that giving something back is a part of me. I attended a trans-activist workshop awhile back, and began seeking opportunities to just be out there. I've registered with a youth trans mentoring program, and recently became approved, and will be attending another training program to be a facilitator for a drop-in program for trans persons. It really feels good to give back, so many came before us, and will come after.
Blabbering on... but yes, what others have said, life is hard for us, why not just blend in once our path gets us there? It's easier for some then others, but you cannot blame someone that transitions, and just wants to live a 'normal' life, more then likely, they've already paid a price along their life path. I will never ever tell a person that has successfully made it through transition, and can and does go stealth, that what they are doing is wrong. What they are doing is sooo right..... for them. Live and let live, To each their own, etc.
*smoochies*.
Melan
I work on a local scale to try to make things better. Changing the world seems too huge, and I have to admit I don't really care about most of it. But what I can do on a local scale, to change the law, to provide support and outreach, and create and put on events - then I do that.
You know what? I have a confession to make. Until I transitioned things like activism weren't even on my radar screen.
Imagine this: A man is on the street asking for help. He is a war veteran and says he was kidnapped by the Taliban and held for three years and was beaten so badly he can no longer walk. Can you help him across the street?
For those who have never lived through what he went through, some, maybe many, would say they don't have time. But I'll bet every person who lived through anything even close to what he did would drop everything to help him and ask if they could do more.
That's how I see the difference in my attitude then and now. The rejection, discrimination, prejudice, intolerance and most amazing, the total 180 loved ones do on you is just as shocking as realizing there are people who would just as soon kill you as look at you. Once you've been on the front lines, everything changes.
It seems many, if not all, who go full time eventually leave the forums, the meetings, the seminars. I used to think that was counterproductive because those up and coming could benefit greatly from their help. But now I'm beginning to understand they needed to put their energies into living their life and dealing with having an opposite gendered past. It's nothing like what I thought it would be. I can at least say that.
But when your needs change, as they do after transition, you have to move on because the people who haven't transitioned have a different need than you do, the need you no longer have.
I feel I have this calling now. There's an unfulfilled need inside me that I need to fill. It's a void that I can't ignore. I want to make a difference. I'm full time but I'll never be stealth. Nor do I want to be a poster child. More and more I'm being me and I'm finding as long as I like who I am, people will respond to that, not to my past.
It may not change the world but it's a start.
Julie
It's probably sad to say, Julie, but if I helped every down and out vet across the street, it'd take me an hour to get anywhere.
Quote from: Nero on September 10, 2009, 07:57:43 PM
I'm still on the fence concerning this. It's not that it's not important to me, but is it more important than just being seen as an ordinary guy? I don't know. I don't want to be 'transman Joe' but 'Joe, the man who just happens to be trans'.
This post provoked me to think about this a bit more.
This is at the heart of the reason that activism is needed, not just for trans or LGBT people, but for any group. Rosa Parks was just "tired," or so she said -- tired from work and tired from oppression. I'm sure she would have much rather have "just happened to be" a black woman. But she couldn't; society wouldn't let her, America wouldn't, the law wouldn't, the world wouldn't. That's why there was a civil rights movement.
There's a fight to be had today for civil rights for trans people and for ending bigotry against us. If we don't fight, who will? Just wishing that the problems will go away won't solve them. The only question is how each of us can make the best difference.
Well, I'm a terrible leader and organizer. And I see this site as organized more for support than activism. Other sites -- activist blogs, sites affiliated with activist groups, personal sites like Lynn Conway's, etc., are better organized for discussion of activist topics. Might someone have a suggestion for how activity on Susan's forums can lead to more effective activism?
My contribution is to try to present an image of transgender to the world that is both non-confrontational and unapologetic, to make it clear to those that might have reservations about accepting transgendered people that they are simply wrong in their views, and to encourage those that feel cowed in their views in support of the transgendered.
I know people who do a lot more. I wish I could, but I just don't have their talent for activist leadership.
Most of the work in any activism deal is not being the poster child - so many people in here remind me of what Alice Roosevelt said about her dad, Teddy: He wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral - its booking the meetings, setting up the chairs, preparing the materials, making phone calls, making the coffee, cleaning up, typing up the minutes and notes, writing thank you cards, nothing as glamorous as being a poster child. When I stage managed the Cotillion the only time anyone saw me was when I swept the stage, other than that, I was in the back, in the dark, with a headset on talking with the crew.
And I don't think a lot of activism is accomplished on the web, or no real good activism. Most of it is done, as it always has been, face to face, one on one.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on September 11, 2009, 01:59:35 AM
This post provoked me to think about this a bit more.
This is at the heart of the reason that activism is needed, not just for trans or LGBT people, but for any group. Rosa Parks was just "tired," or so she said -- tired from work and tired from oppression. I'm sure she would have much rather have "just happened to be" a black woman. But she couldn't; society wouldn't let her, America wouldn't, the law wouldn't, the world wouldn't. That's why there was a civil rights movement.
There's a fight to be had today for civil rights for trans people and for ending bigotry against us. If we don't fight, who will? Just wishing that the problems will go away won't solve them. The only question is how each of us can make the best difference.
Well, I'm a terrible leader and organizer. And I see this site as organized more for support than activism. Other sites -- activist blogs, sites affiliated with activist groups, personal sites like Lynn Conway's, etc., are better organized for discussion of activist topics. Might someone have a suggestion for how activity on Susan's forums can lead to more effective activism?
My contribution is to try to present an image of transgender to the world that is both non-confrontational and unapologetic, to make it clear to those that might have reservations about accepting transgendered people that they are simply wrong in their views, and to encourage those that feel cowed in their views in support of the transgendered.
I know people who do a lot more. I wish I could, but I just don't have their talent for activist leadership.
Alyssa, you've stated this better than I've been able to. Thank you.
What you pointed out is exactly what I was thinking when I started this thread. None of want to be seen as trans, only as who we are and how we feel inside. Unfortunately, that's not possible for all of us. We still carry gender markers from our past that may not ever be erased. For those about whom this is true, there is little chance of achieving the goal of being stealth and being "just a man" or "just a woman".
But if we all worked on giving the world a positive image that represents us as we know we are, we should see, maybe in our lifetime, a time when it doesn't matter if you have a birth gender different from who you are. People may know but they won't care. It will be a non-issue, at least as far as people's attitude about WHO you are goes.
Society sees the person born with one leg shorter than the other who undergoes surgery to correct it as someone who did what they needed to do to function better and live a happier life. When the TG stigma is erased, it would be the same for trans people. We did what we had to do. They may think, "I'm glad I don't have to do that" but they won't think, "That's pretty screwed up!"
When I go out I rarely go to places I know are TG friendly. I live in mostly Republican county just west of Chicago and there are no TG friendly places here. And I'm not going to live the life of a hermit. So I go where I want to go when I need or want to go. And at times I get "the look". Oh well. But I make a point of being pleasant with everyone I come into contact with and try to engage them in conversation when I can. My voice ain't that great but I don't let that get in my way. If they believe me to be trans but walk away with a better impression of TGs than they had before they met me, I've made a positive difference.
You don't have to be a serious activist to make a difference. All you have to do is present yourself well to those you encounter. It may not be as effective as aggressive activism but it's better than hoping things will get better.
Julie
This is a cut from a different thread, and maybe it fits a little better here, pls pardon parts that seem off topic...........
[Last night we] went to bed and flipped on the TV for a short while, and low and behold, in the episode of HOUSE on Fox network, a beautiful young woman was diagnosed with AIS. And what was the response to their discovery? House tells her she is a man...."a pseudo-hermaphrodite"
"No...."she says..."I'm a beautiful girl"....sobs.......
"No....you're a man. Or a woman....the perfect woman....a man" Then refers to her in a decidedly creeped-out way to the nurses attending as "her-she-him-whatever.....herm". "At least her father will stop having sex with her, now that he knows she's a guy"
So, kids......that's what really matters. Today's society in general is all about being creeped out by transgender and transsexual PEOPLE, and have a tendency to treat us without the dignity we deserve as fellow people.
Why should Fox network promote such a story line, unresolved bigotry included? No, I'm not saying they should have to teach or preach, but they should be held accountable for portraying us as less than people, and apparently honestly believing it themselves.
Another show.....a cop show....I dunno, maybe a year ago. Detectives find a dead transwoman, legs splayed open on a makeshift operating table in a garage....abandoned, unreported. The poor woman is desperate enough to let a quack surgeon change her genitalia, and gives her life for it. So.......the characters are shocked, sickened, saddened........so far, so good.
Then the detective interviews a transwoman friend. He tells her he knows she's ts, and the jig's up. So the transwoman 'comes clean', and begins speaking in her male voice....'her real voice'.
Things like this make me soooo angry! And it won't change. Society at large will view us as less than human as long as we allow it.
I've worked with a number of people who were creeped out, or thought me to be a novelty. But it's very rare that a customer will read me.....as far as I know. Many of the people who were there when I transitioned are still there, mixed in with a lot of new faces. So I'm not stealth at all to the employees, just the customers. But push to shove, I'll state who I am with dignity and pride. Once, one guy I worked with brought his wife into the store under some pretense. She came, she saw, she left, then minutes later, came for a second look.
I whispered to a female friend, "I usually sell tickets to my freak show"
She said, "...please Bev......don't make a scene...."
I love her very much, but maybe, just maybe, I should have told him then and there....."I usually sell tickets"
Well, there's always a next time.
I've determined to speak out, speak up, and be heard by anyone who verbalizes anything wrong about my gender or my sex, and then if they ask, teach them about it. I certainly don't want situations like this, and generally spend my existence blending in with the rest of the real people. But, until people are taught to treat us with the respect we deserve, we will remain 3rd-class citizens. And, like I said, there's always a next time.
*Bristle*
I saw that House episode. Everyone else in the show was pretty decent but when House made that comment I was pretty ticked off. But it did exemplify how poorly we are portrayed in the media and when we actually find something on TV that is sensitive AND accurate, we're thinking 'pinch me, I'm dreaming!"
It will be a long time before we're accepted. How long depends on how many people work to create a more positive image.
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on September 14, 2009, 02:00:27 PM
I saw that House episode. Everyone else in the show was pretty decent but when House made that comment I was pretty ticked off. But it did exemplify how poorly we are portrayed in the media and when we actually find something on TV that is sensitive AND accurate, we're thinking 'pinch me, I'm dreaming!"
It will be a long time before we're accepted. How long depends on how many people work to create a more positive image.
Julie
I read the episode two ways.
One, was as it appears on its face, that it is transphobic and disrespectful.
Two, that House had lost all respect for the girl because she seduced her father so that she could get her way. He has reacted in a similar manner to others when he disapproved of someone.
Regardless though, she did not have to be portrayed in a stereotypical way of being a sex-crazed maniac who would use her body to get her way. It did little to move the story line and made the issues regarding AIS confusing.
-Sandy
It's also worth noting that House is an a**hole to EVERYONE. That's who he is.
It would have been strikingly out of character if he HAD treated the girl respectfully.
QuoteHow Important Is Changing The World to TGs?
I would imagine that it would be very important to those who are transitioning, and probably not so important to many who have transitioned. Of course I am speaking as a former TS. However other groups who fall under the TG umbrella (CD's, TV's, etc.) may have a different view.
-={LR}=-
Then again, you just might be lazy. After all, lots of people fought and worked for this, why should you be bothered?
But, if I got one law passed, a minor one, stating that all legal documents stand as written - which would revert you DL/Passport/BC to 'male' I bet you'd be at Border's trying to by a copy of Protesting for Dummies when they open the next morning.
House insults everyone with every condition under the sun. Treating a TG individual any differently would be the discriminatory practice.
I know its a mighty fine line to draw for a lot of people here, but there is a difference between reality and television.
Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
I know its a mighty fine line to draw for a lot of people here, but there is a difference between reality and television.
Huh? ? ?
-Sandy(will return after a word from our sponsor)
Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
I know its a mighty fine line to draw for a lot of people here, but there is a difference between reality and television.
Yes, and no, tekla. Television/Media has this ability to mimic reality in some shape or form. Yeah, hey, I'm sorry but it's true.
What House did wasn't out of character, so I'm actually happy he didn't start sobbing at her knees, and tell her how sorry he was for all her troubles.
There's that old saying, something about life imitating art imitating life.
There's a difference between tv and reality, but the two affect each other undeniably.
Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 12:53:02 AM
Then again, you just might be lazy. After all, lots of people fought and worked for this, why should you be bothered?
But, if I got one law passed, a minor one, stating that all legal documents stand as written - which would revert your DL/Passport/BC to 'male' I bet you'd be at Border's trying to by a copy of Protesting for Dummies when they open the next morning.
Yeah, when it breaks down your door and slams you to the ground, you respond a lot differently than if you read about it happening to someone else.
From talking to CDs, their attitude (in general) is the risk isn't worth it. Being outed and being able to present as they want or the closet. They mostly choose the closet. Those who can be stealth respond pretty much the same way. They don't want to be outed. So, if you have trouble passing, too bad. You're on your own. And yes, stealth is another closet.
Julie
And yes, stealth is another closet.
Sorry, I have to disagree with you there. I've been stealth for a few years now and feel in no way like I'm hiding or repressing anything. IME, the people who feel this way do not have the option of being stealth anyway.
By my definition, stealth means no one knows of your past. So that means you have to keep all information about your past to yourself.
If you have to hide your birth gender, you're in the closet, just a different one that when you were hiding your gender identity.
Julie
As someone who considers his past to be a medical issue, there's no hiding to be done. I typically don't tell everyone I know that I broke a finger when I was 4, nor do I tell them this. They're of equal significance to me.
Besides, since when did the concept of privacy become a closet?
There's a difference between tv and reality, but the two affect each other undeniably.
ONLY IF YOU WATCH IT. Kinda like heroin will change your personality, but only if you do it. A lot.
At any rate, there is a reason its called 'programing' don't 'cha think? There are many surveys that say the people who don't watch TV are generally happier and less paranoid then those who watch at moderate levels - and people who watch at high levels tend to be very paranoid.
Numerous content analyses have documented that the number of violent acts on American network TV greatly exceeds the amount of real-world violence (e.g., Diefenbach & West, 2001). In turn, heavy TV viewers: (a) overestimate the incidence of serious crime in society (first-order effects), and (b) are more likely to believe that the world is a mean place where people cannot be trusted and are just looking out for themselves (second-order effects; Gerbner et al., 2002; Gerbner, Gross, Morgan, & Signorielli, 1980).
Personality traits, television viewing, and the cultivation effect
Journal of Broadcasting & Electronic Media, Sept, 2008 by Robin L. Nabi, Karyn Riddle
Quote from: Mister on September 15, 2009, 10:39:04 AM
Besides, since when did the concept of privacy become a closet?
When it means not being able to talk about years or even decades of your past. When you have to be careful about how you word things, what you say and keeping aware of anything that may reveal your past. That's keeping things in the closet, which is the same thing LGBT people do prior to coming out and the same thing Jews did while living in Nazi Germany.
It's not a bad thing or anything to be embarrassed about, it's just a fact of life if you're living in today's society. There are repercussions if you out yourself. But if you don't, you are in the closet. No criticism, just a fact.
Now, taking the attitude, "I'll let everyone else do the dirty work while I enjoy the fruits of their labor", WILL earn you some criticism. (general statement - not saying you did that)
Julie
Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 10:55:30 AM
There's a difference between tv and reality, but the two affect each other undeniably.
ONLY IF YOU WATCH IT.
Er, even if "I" don't watch it, it still affects reality, because billions of other people watch it.
Quote from: Julie Marie on September 15, 2009, 10:00:55 AM
Yeah, when it breaks down your door and slams you to the ground, you respond a lot differently than if you read about it happening to someone else.
From talking to CDs, their attitude (in general) is the risk isn't worth it. Being outed and being able to present as they want or the closet. They mostly choose the closet. Those who can be stealth respond pretty much the same way. They don't want to be outed. So, if you have trouble passing, too bad. You're on your own. And yes, stealth is another closet.
Julie
I know I'll be accused - within moments - of being devisive or attacking my own side or whateverfor saying this but that accusation will be BS because this isn't an attack, just an observation.
I don't think when we are discussing actual RIGHTS in terms of housing or employment or marriage or etc, that crossdressers are a factor.
What they do is, essentially, the equivalent of a person who has a lot of tats or a lot of piercings or a man with really long hair or a woman with a shaved head or the guys with the saggy pants.
they are simply at odds with the conventional norms regarding acceptable apperance and style - cultural customs.
They may or may not have thier own set of beefs - should a crossdresser be allowed to wear a nice pencil skirt to the office? - but they are not at all, in my view, the same issues as TGs are faced with. for one reason, what they do is not
who they are (any more than getting some new ink defines you) - it's what they want to do.
Again, I'm NOT suggesting that what they want to do in defiance of custom is bad or wrong or that they don't have the right to argue that no one should be made to conform for the sake of conformity. But at the same time, if you can cross dress everywhere BUT at work, then being made to wear drab at work is not a huge deal. IF you are just a dresser.
So I have no doubt that CD's are not interested in being out of the closet activists in almost every case and, for the most part, I think that's proper.
Further, I'd argue that in trying to broaden our net to get every last soul who has ANY non-traditional gender label that we dilute our core argument and we give the opposition a lot of ammunition to fight against us.
It might not be correct, within the self-righteousness of the community, to say this but you will have a LOT harder time getting the average joe to respect you if he thinks that means he has to respect the over-the-top drag queen too.
Yes, I know the counter argument - all people should respect all people....We'd all like to live in Utopia. But as a practical matter, you have to do things one step at a time.
Most of the CDs, I've met and known are not 'over the top DQs' they are regular people trying in their own way to work out a rather exceptional set of circumstances. Hell, most of my wardrobe is black, and if I'm going for a splash of color, I'll put on something with a little gray.
And, I'm sure many CDs would look a hella lot better in a pencil skirt than many of the girls I see in them and think 'Honey, that skirt is not your friend."
But, correct me - and I'm sure you will, at length. But when 'rights' are only given to certain people (people we like, people we agree with, people who are the 'right kind', people like us) and not to others - are they then not really 'rights' anymore, but something more akin to privilege - a special law for a special few?
How many people on the Remember Our Dead list were genuine 100% TS, and how many were simply just practicing, as you say 'non-acceptable behavior'? Are they any less dead? Are their deaths somehow, 'just' their way of being non-conformists?
Laura, I sort of agree with you.
Tekla, No, those people aren't any less dead and I agree that if we count them in one column that we need to count them in all columns. But, just like any civil rights movement, we don't all get them at the same time. The LGB has ENDA, and we were cut off. While no one in this forum will say that the 'T' doesn't deserve equal protection, I find it impossible to say that a few million LGB people should continue to be discriminated against because we can't pass an inclusive ENDA. If we need to start breaking down the 'LGBT' to get protections for some of our community, then that's what we need to do. Protect whoever we can as soon as we can and continue to advocate for whoever is left.
Hey Mister, that bill did not pass, no one got anything. The current copy has T protections in it, we'll see.
Some comments:
I know CDs who would love to dress "en femme" at work.
How long do you think it would have been (if a non-T ENDA passed) before the voters would be sympathetic enough towards Ts to include them in ENDA?
Many gays and lesbians cross the gender lines and are discriminated against for that. You can't exclude the T without leaving some gays & lesbians vulnerable to T discrimination.
Julie
Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 03:56:34 PM
Hey Mister, that bill did not pass, no one got anything. The current copy has T protections in it, we'll see.
ha, megatypo ftw.
Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 12:53:02 AM
Then again, you just might be lazy. After all, lots of people fought and worked for this, why should you be bothered?
But, if I got one law passed, a minor one, stating that all legal documents stand as written - which would revert you DL/Passport/BC to 'male' I bet you'd be at Border's trying to by a copy of Protesting for Dummies when they open the next morning.
I'm not sure why on earth you would think me to be lazy???? And, how the hell would you know what I have and have not done????
Unfortunately pumpkin you wouldn't be able to do that in my country as we have a Charter of Rights and freedoms that protect me from jerks trying to do such things. When you mention "Borders" I'm assuming you are referring to a book store? Maybe if I read such "Dummies" books I would understand you better, but then I really don't care.
-={LR}=-
I write my Representatives and Senators, and I am on a couple of boards regarding GLBT issues.
Other than that I am not very active.
Janet
Personally I don't wish to cause the world to change. After all, I've got difficulties to change my own body, I feel powerless to change the others minds.
If they hate us, then so be it. At least we can still have our own little world to live peacefully in.
Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 02:20:02 PM
Most of the CDs, I've met and known are not 'over the top DQs'
do you EVER actually reply to what someone is
actually saying?
Quotethey are regular people trying in their own way to work out a rather exceptional set of circumstances. Hell, most of my wardrobe is black, and if I'm going for a splash of color, I'll put on something with a little gray.
And, I'm sure many CDs would look a hella lot better in a pencil skirt than many of the girls I see in them and think 'Honey, that skirt is not your friend."
But, correct me - and I'm sure you will, at length. But when 'rights' are only given to certain people (people we like, people we agree with, people who are the 'right kind', people like us) and not to others - are they then not really 'rights' anymore, but something more akin to privilege - a special law for a special few?
90% of what people call "rights" are actually privileges.
Quote
How many people on the Remember Our Dead list were genuine 100% TS, and how many were simply just practicing, as you say 'non-acceptable behavior'? Are they any less dead?
could you be any less relevant to my post?
QuoteAre their deaths somehow, 'just' their way of being non-conformists?
A lot of people got themselves dead throughout history for being non-conformist in various ways.
If I were somehow proposing we treat their deaths as less important your post might actually have some relevance to what I actually said but since I got nowhere near that concept...not so much.
More comments:
In most social changes, the few make personal sacrifices and put in lots of time and effort and the masses enjoy their fruits. It's up to each person to decide if they want to be part of the former or one of the latter.
You don't have to be on the front lines leading the rally to effect change. Each person who comes into contact with you and walks away with a better understanding of transgender lives is a positive step forward.
Doing something is better than doing nothing if you don't like the way society treats Ts. Baby steps... walk... jog... run.
Eradicating the negative stigma, the prejudice and the discrimination TGs face will possibly be the most difficult social change to achieve that any group in humankind has ever faced. But if we don't work at it, the closet will be the only safe option.
Julie
With each passing day my desire to educate the masses has increased. I spoke with a gay friend about transgender issues this evening. I am praying for more opportunities to speak to groups. I write about transgender topics on an online magazine. Writing is one of the ways I communicate but I enjoy being out in public and speaking to folks.
Gennee
Julie, I think it's different when you work in a field where you are helping transpeople for a living. It's a different kind of activism. I don't need to be out there waving a sign and being 'out and proud' in front of a news camera or on the steps of capitol hill to make a difference. I think helping transpeople in their daily lives is just as important. I know issues like ENDA and bathroom equality and stuff are important, but I pick and choose my battles. I know there are others who will carry on those fights because they mean more to them than they do for me. I prefer working with individuals and with small groups vs. working to change a system. I don't know though, I've never really been active politically.
Honestly, and I'm sure this may seem insensitive and stuff, but I don't even usually read political stuff. In the forums, Julie, I'd read one of your posts about problems with your ex or some life issue (personal) over a post about a trans-issue like the one of yours that had all the hits concerning 'maam'd and glammed' and I'd totally skip one about ENDA (political). I like coming to Susan's to read how my online friends are doing with their lives, meet new people, document my journey and that's pretty much it. I don't want trans stuff to populate my every waking hour, you know?
Oh, and I definitely reserve my right (privilege maybe?) to back out of the community any time I see fit. I think that it's great to have people out, proud and fighting for causes but I don't think anyone is obligated to that. To Tekla's point, I'm sure if someone were pulling my legal name or changing my gender marker on my ID I'd do something, but marching on Sacramento wouldn't be one of them. I'd be finding another way other than having to be out in someone's face to get change. That's just my thoughts Julie, hope everything is going well for you :) Meghan
Oh, I forgot to add, I do a lot of public speaking about trans issues too. I also speak very actively to people about my experience. I figure while I'm feeling up to it, I'll be vocal and active in the community.
Well Julie, I just read your OP and decided to post without reading any of the other replies just to give you an unbiased, or non-off topic opinion so if this has been hit on, err..sorry? :D
Anyway, to me as a transsexual male, I had to fight society every inch of every day growing up. By the time I was an adult I had no care at all for it. Other peoples opinions and thoughts and society as a whole could go ->-bleeped-<- itself with a jelly doughnut for all I cared. Its like an Armor you build about yourself so you can REMAIN yourself. Now that Im a little older, I think my original concept of running off into the desert and becoming a hunter/gatherer once I had all my Surgeries is a little irrational, but I'd still almost rather do just that than deal with humanity. I think that type of attitude may persist in the community. We've hated/ignored "the others" for so long it doesnt matter what they do, we shall simply remain us.
Its really bad that we have to overcome that barrier and care what goes on around us for the future transsexuals of earth sake, but there again is an issue. We dont reproduce transsexuals, "the others" make them. And on those rare occasions we do reproduce our offspring are "other" not Transsexuals like ourselves 99% of the time. So, do we really have a stock in making reality at all? Shouldnt we just live for our own knowledge and spiritual oneness/freedom? Those questions and the overwhelming handicap of just being a transsexual are usually what stop me from giving a damn.
So I dont know, On one hand it would be nice if we lived in rainbow happy land with unicorns and Jesus, and all people everywhere should strive to obtain that. On the other hand, its so damn unlikely that its not worth bothering with when youre buried under a mountain of sh*t with no shovel. So its important to me in a philosophical way, but not in a spiritual way.
I've only known a very small number of transsexuals in person. In fact, only 1 ftm and 3 mtf.
My observation, since all are pretty much under the radar, is that they just want to go about their normal lives. And that's okay with me, especially since that's my own preference as well. One difference with me is that I'm still at the same job I transitioned on, so I've had tons of time to educate people. And most of my friends became nemesis, and I was fired from my job for being who I am by a new manager. That.....is when I started getting furious instead of hurt. I became quite the activist then, used some activist resources, and I got my job back. I gained some respect for doing so, but not so much.
And now, I've won, because I outlasted them, outlived a few, and have seen faces come and go. I have more friends now than I did before I transitioned, but it was emotionally expensive. And with some, my ts'ism is a company urban myth.
On the home front, Marcy and I are just seen as a lesbian couple complete with kids and grand kids. Everything is cool, and all I want is to live, just like anyone else, and not be bothered, and everything is perfect.................nah......it never is.
There's always something out there to bite you if you're ts. And when it happens, you go back into activist mode, and either take action, or not after the anger subsides. A good example of this was just half a year ago. After giving blood to the Red Cross, I get a phone call:
"hello...."
"yes, hello. This is so-and-so with the American Red Cross. Is Beverly_____ available?"
"This is she, how may I help you?"
"No, I would like to speak to BEVERLY ______. Is he available?"
"sigh....This is Ms Beverly ________. What do you want?"
"I would like to speak with Michael Beverly ________.....PLEASE!"
"You are speaking to Michael Beverly _________"
"Okay sir, this is our problem.......we have you listed as female. What gender are you?"
"I'm female. What do you want?"
"Were you male?"
"I'm a transsexual. I'm female. Make your point."
"Okay, so you are male. Have you had genital surgery?"
""What business is that of yours? How dare you be so personal"
"Have you had..."
It's NONE of your business. Goodbye."
"Sir......we have to know"
"Like I said, it's none of your organization's business"
"It's an FDA mandate....."
I don't care, now goodbye, and don't call me again."
*click*
2 days later, another call
"Hello, this is another so-and-so from American Red Cross. May I speak with Beverly ____?"
"This is Ms Beverly ______, and I asked not to be called by your organization again...."
"This won't take long.....we have to fix your gender. According to our records......."
"I told the other woman I'm female. Why do you care?!"
"Well, our records show...."
"Some things change. I'm female. Make a note of it."
"Ummm.....okay"
"Please make a note in my file....do not call me again"
"Yes ma'am. I'm sorry to disturb you"
*click*
A few days later, another call....
"Hello, Beverly _______ please"
"speaking......how may I help you?"
"This is yet another so-and-so from American Red Cross"
"Really! I asked twice now not to be called again."
"I'm sorry Miss ______, but we have a solution for you..."
"Oh?"
"Yes.....all you have to do is that every time you come in to donate, is indicate that you are male."
"REMOVE ME FROM YOUR CALLING LIST"
*BANG*
I went into activist mode, fumed, researched my resources. I was going to take them to court. How DARE they?
This went on for over 2 months......super activist mode.
And then, after the anger subsided..........
I didn't want to make the news, and have my face in the public eye. I didn't want the world to know how to find me or mine, and put us on display.
I just wanted to be left alone....like anyone else. Marcy took the next call from Red Cross when the inevitable call came, and told them 'she is no longer going to donate her blood'.
Writing this, almost puts me back in the mode of activist.
But now, more time has gone by, more grand kids pushed in swings, more quiet walks with my love.
That's all I want in life, and is that really so bad?
*sigh*
Bev
Awwww, Bev, that's a shame. Really. Who would have thought that an organization like the Red Cross would do that?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Kristi on September 28, 2009, 10:26:53 AM
Awwww, Bev, that's a shame. Really. Who would have thought that an organization like the Red Cross would do that?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
When I told lifesource that I was taking estrogen and I was transitioning I was immediately forbidden to donate blood or platelets. Even though the need for platelets outstrips the need for blood by many times and I had been a multiple gallon donor.
When I asked why, it was said that since I was a homosexual (now), I was in a high risk category since I would be having sex with men.
This is the fiat that was handed down by the FDA. If you are MTF you are homosexual, I.E. gay, I.E. AIDS carrier. I have no idea what they think of FTM's.
Thank you president bush.
Platelets cannot be preserved or frozen. They are processed and used within five days of harvesting. Usually to leukemia patients or those who have had their bone marrow irradiated. My blood saved lives.
The frustration and sadness I feel has not ever been assuaged.
Yes, of course, I could go in now and lie that I have never donated. My records can only show that I am now female. But to perform that selfless act, I must hide my face, my history, my life? I must fear that if I am ever found out I could face prosecution for wanting to serve my fellow human beings? What an absurd society we live in.
-Sandy
Quote from: Miss Bev on September 28, 2009, 09:41:24 AM
I've only known a very small number of transsexuals in person. In fact, only 1 ftm and 3 mtf.
My observation, since all are pretty much under the radar, is that they just want to go about their normal lives. And that's okay with me, especially since that's my own preference as well. One difference with me is that I'm still at the same job I transitioned on, so I've had tons of time to educate people. And most of my friends became nemesis, and I was fired from my job for being who I am by a new manager. That.....is when I started getting furious instead of hurt. I became quite the activist then, used some activist resources, and I got my job back. I gained some respect for doing so, but not so much.
And now, I've won, because I outlasted them, outlived a few, and have seen faces come and go. I have more friends now than I did before I transitioned, but it was emotionally expensive. And with some, my ts'ism is a company urban myth.
On the home front, Marcy and I are just seen as a lesbian couple complete with kids and grand kids. Everything is cool, and all I want is to live, just like anyone else, and not be bothered, and everything is perfect.................nah......it never is.
There's always something out there to bite you if you're ts. And when it happens, you go back into activist mode, and either take action, or not after the anger subsides. A good example of this was just half a year ago. After giving blood to the Red Cross, I get a phone call:
"hello...."
"yes, hello. This is so-and-so with the American Red Cross. Is Beverly_____ available?"
"This is she, how may I help you?"
"No, I would like to speak to BEVERLY ______. Is he available?"
"sigh....This is Ms Beverly ________. What do you want?"
"I would like to speak with Michael Beverly ________.....PLEASE!"
"You are speaking to Michael Beverly _________"
"Okay sir, this is our problem.......we have you listed as female. What gender are you?"
"I'm female. What do you want?"
"Were you male?"
"I'm a transsexual. I'm female. Make your point."
"Okay, so you are male. Have you had genital surgery?"
""What business is that of yours? How dare you be so personal"
"Have you had..."
It's NONE of your business. Goodbye."
"Sir......we have to know"
"Like I said, it's none of your organization's business"
"It's an FDA mandate....."
I don't care, now goodbye, and don't call me again."
*click*
2 days later, another call
"Hello, this is another so-and-so from American Red Cross. May I speak with Beverly ____?"
"This is Ms Beverly ______, and I asked not to be called by your organization again...."
"This won't take long.....we have to fix your gender. According to our records......."
"I told the other woman I'm female. Why do you care?!"
"Well, our records show...."
"Some things change. I'm female. Make a note of it."
"Ummm.....okay"
"Please make a note in my file....do not call me again"
"Yes ma'am. I'm sorry to disturb you"
*click*
A few days later, another call....
"Hello, Beverly _______ please"
"speaking......how may I help you?"
"This is yet another so-and-so from American Red Cross"
"Really! I asked twice now not to be called again."
"I'm sorry Miss ______, but we have a solution for you..."
"Oh?"
"Yes.....all you have to do is that every time you come in to donate, is indicate that you are male."
"REMOVE ME FROM YOUR CALLING LIST"
*BANG*
I went into activist mode, fumed, researched my resources. I was going to take them to court. How DARE they?
This went on for over 2 months......super activist mode.
And then, after the anger subsided..........
I didn't want to make the news, and have my face in the public eye. I didn't want the world to know how to find me or mine, and put us on display.
I just wanted to be left alone....like anyone else. Marcy took the next call from Red Cross when the inevitable call came, and told them 'she is no longer going to donate her blood'.
Writing this, almost puts me back in the mode of activist.
But now, more time has gone by, more grand kids pushed in swings, more quiet walks with my love.
That's all I want in life, and is that really so bad?
*sigh*
Bev
Bev hun, you have a lot more patience with morons on the phone than I do....I believe the moment she said "ok sir" she would have been eating dial tone.
and the second call i'd have hesitated just long enough to inform them they just lost a doner.
If being trans means I can't give blood then, oh well. There loss.
I think it's everybody's loss when people are not allowed to live up to their potential. Who knows what they could have done, could have been - done for others - had they felt free to make choices for themselves they felt were for the best?
Take a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle and on one side write down the places that you find all the the equivalent of a person who has a lot of tats or a lot of piercings or a man with really long hair or a woman with a shaved head or the guys with the saggy pants, where you find the gays, the lesbians open and out, the TGs participating in everyday society, pictured as part of the community. And on the other side, write down the places where such behavior is condemned, looked down upon, and generally not accepted.
Go ahead and do it, I'll wait.
So, look at that list and what do you find? I bet the more open and tolerant they are, the higher the average income, with the reverse being true, the the least tolerant places, some of the extremely rural areas, are the poorest.
When you let everyone be themselves, it unleashes great and vast potentials of action, income, and activity.
Quote from: tekla on September 28, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
I bet the more open and tolerant they are, the higher the average income, with the reverse being true, the the least tolerant places, some of the extremely rural areas, are the poorest.
Look at the occupations where transitioning people are most accepted and you will find a higher education level prevalent. Now look at the occupations where we are most discriminated against and you only need a high school education (or less) to apply. Higher education usually means higher earnings.
But there's also a spiritual belief factor that has a similar trend. Belief systems that are open to nature and/or the natural world that is ever changing (Buddhism, Taoism) are more accepting of those who are different than belief systems that are stuck in ancient traditions that are more focused on man.
It boils down to one's ability to accept change and it seems those who resist change the most are the uneducated. They have a phobia regarding change.
And there are people who take advantage of this and feed their fears, typically to gain power and wealth. Educated, intelligent predators preying on the uneducated for personal gain. And in the process innocent people are thrown to the lions so as to create the "evil we must fight". Right now that fantasy evil is the LGBT community.
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on September 28, 2009, 05:19:06 PM
Right now that fantasy evil is the LGBT community.
Julie
One of the best places to be an activist, is where you work. BECAUSE.....your coworkers get to interact with you not just once, or twice, but on a daily basis, and after a long enough time, see that you are as they, striving to make ends meet, having many of the same workplace issues, family issues. You become a human being that loves, plays, contributes.
There are plenty of GLB's where I work. Most were closeted, but now some are not.
I talk openly about my family, about my love...my partner Marcy.....even to customers. I display a 'Safe Spaces' sticker on my sales book for all to see.
How does this impact my sales? Well, I DO seem to get the lioness' share of the LGBT business, often by word of mouth. Also though, my sales to the straight couples and singles of all ages have increased.
SO.....it's not so terrible to be an activist in a small way, and help to normalize a huge misunderstood part of the population.
I wear my lesbian jewelry, and behave as who I am.....an openly, happy gay woman.
Try it.
Bev
All politics are local - Tip O'Neil
Bev, I looked up this topic from last winter. I'm sorry that you had your experience go sour. This was what I heard then, but I haven't gone to donate since:
Quote from: Alyssa M. on February 05, 2009, 10:44:22 PM
I emailed the local blood donation center, and they responded saying I should ask my doctor. If my doctor thinks it's okay, then they are fine with it. So I'll do that.
~Alyssa
So I don't think that there is some uniform edict, just that they don't know what to do. I sort of don't want to donate blood until I change my name, probably early next year, for reasons like this.
--
Quote from: tekla on September 28, 2009, 05:51:41 PM
All politics are is local - Tip O'Neil
FIFY ;)
--
Bev, your last post reminded me of a conversation I had last night. I was talking to a friend last night (I'll call her "Ann") who is in a committed relationship with a trans woman (I'll call her "Betty"). Ann was talking about the lack of privilege and discrimination she feels as a lesbian, the way she is concerned about holding hands in public, talking about her home life, etc. She's pretty "out and proud," but she feels reservations about it. I suggested that Betty doesn't share her reservations, which Ann confirmed. It's a strange thing that gay and lesbian trans people often don't experience the same acculturation against our sexuality, since we appear normative before transition. I have sometimes observed a similar effect with black immigrants, who haven't had the same acculturation to American racism.
So Betty ends up being a more effective activist for lesbians, by exploiting the straight privilege she inherited from her upbringing; similarly, Ann ends up being a better activist for trans people by exploiting her cis privilege.
True, but the trouble with education is that you just can't bring yourself to murder the English language. Since 'politics' is plural, you have to use 'are' and not 'is'. I'd tell old Tip that, but he's dead and not much of a listener anymore.
Politics might be plural, but the phrase all politics can be construed as singular. This is a fairly common idiomatic useage of all in its noun (or pronoun) form; there is an implied of, as in, all of politics. Furthermore, there is good reason to construe as singular words that started out as plural. As an American, you probably do this with the word mathematics (as do I), which is why we say "math" rather than "maths." Unless you are the ghost of William Safire, you might do this with the word media as well. It's not education, it's idiom.
All rock bands is good. All restaurants is expensive?
Somehow that's not correct. All politics is a plural, not singular, just as 'all' of everything/anything are plural, as all, will almost always refer to more than one.
:icon_blink:
What an odd turn of topic(s)
Bev
Post Merge: September 29, 2009, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: Alyssa M. on September 29, 2009, 02:36:16 PM
.....Betty ends up being a more effective activist for lesbians, by exploiting the straight privilege she inherited from her upbringing; similarly, Ann ends up being a better activist for trans people by exploiting her cis privilege.
This is a conclusion I came to myself, after some time of not "getting it".......duh...
Bev
Well, rock band and restaurant are discrete nouns. I have seen a rock band I have never come across a politic. So all of rock bands doesn't make any sense. How about, "All mathematics is summed up in the equation 1+1=2."? Or would you insist upon "are"? At some point, you start sounding a bit stuffy. Especially for someone who frequently uses who rather than whom in objetive cases. >:-)
Besides, we don't have a King, so we don't have the King's English. We just have the Speaker's English. When Tip Spoke, he said, "All politics is local."