Yeah, passing is wonderful and affirming. But I don't pass quite 100%, probably like 93%. Every once in a while, some guy will read me. Usually because he is "checking me out" so intensely. Usually they just have a shocked look of recognition, but sometimes they will feel compelled to say to their friend(s), "that's a dude!". At least they don't say it too loud, like guys used to before I began hormones. Part of the problem of living in Seattle is that guys seem to be on the lookout for trans women. I still haven't figured out whether women who look at me and smile are reading me, or if that's just what women are supposed to do when they make eye contact with another woman.
Anyhow, a few weeks ago I was walking home from my friend's house(in a skecthy area of the city) and I happened to be on a poorly lit, almost deserted street. Two guys were approaching me on the same side of the sidewalk. My brain said to cross to the other side, but I didn't. As they approached, they began saying terribly offensive, misogynist things to me. they split and walked on either side of me as they passed, which freaked me out, because I thought they were going to assault me. I just began walking as fast as I could. As they passed me, one of them said, "->-bleeped-<-, that's a ->-bleeped-<-in' dude!" I glanced over my shoulder to see them turn around and begin to pursue me. So, I took off running as fast as I could, cut down an alley, and kept going. I stopped at one point, and peeked around the corner and sure enough, I saw them, they were still trying to find me. I quietly trotted to the end of the street and took off running again, until I got to a busier street.
I had an emotional breakdown when I got back home and I was a mess for a week after that. I still don't go to my friend's neighborhood after dark anymore.
So, why the ->-bleeped-<- do SOME guys get SO angry when they read me? I know why, and it really doesn't matter. What matters is that they get hostile. I'm kinda thinking about carrying my little .38 special in my purse again, since we can legally carry a concealed pistol in this state. I do always carry a small, sharp, folder knife in my purse now, so if those guys had caught me, I would have given at least one of them a nasty puncture would. Explain THAT to the ER doc, ->-bleeped-<-!
and I happened to be on a poorly lit, almost deserted street
A .38 will not protect you from really bad, poorly thought out decisions.
My brain said to cross to the other side
You should listen to the smarter parts of yourself.
Quote from: Tank Grrl on September 11, 2009, 11:53:39 AM
I'm kinda thinking about carrying my little .38 special in my purse again, since we can legally carry a concealed pistol in this state. I do always carry a small, sharp, folder knife in my purse now, so if those guys had caught me, I would have given at least one of them a nasty puncture would. Explain THAT to the ER doc, ->-bleeped-<-!
And where would you be aiming the Special or the knife? An unscheduled orchidetomy perhaps.
Take care of yourself, and be smart next time.
D
You're right on both, tekla, i could kick myself for not crossing the damn street!! I've walked on that street hundreds of times during the day, and no problems, well except for a few catcalls. When the sun goes down, it gets scary. I was being cheap also, by not calling a cab. a cab would have cost me 5 bucks.
Post Merge: September 11, 2009, 12:09:37 PM
I'm actually pretty good with a .38, I used to go to the range all the time.
a woman needs to be aware at all times of her situation, where she is, and the potential dangers that could arise from it. It's quite different from being a guy and going pretty much anywhere you want anytime you want. Stay safe!
Quote
I'm actually pretty good with a .38, I used to go to the range all the time.
I believe you - but there's a great big whopping difference between calm targeting on a range and fumbling in a panic for a .38 in a purse during the tenths of a second it takes for someone to assault you at close range.
What did old Bruce say in
Enter the Dragon? "Boards don't hit back" :)
Glad you only had a scare and nothing worse though!
Those guys seemed pretty aggressive to me. While crossing the street may have been a good idea I suspect they would have crossed as well.
There are lots of places where even strong guys don't walk. And if you think its bad in NYC, LA (OK, no one walks anywhere in LA, still) or SF, or London (London has more places you can't walk, then places you can), you ought to try the third world.
Scary story but thanks for sharing. I live in the Seattle area as well and I don't really know how people react around here yet
The rule of thumb is the richer the area, the safer you are, but the more likely to talk with a cop.
Quote from: Dana Lane on September 11, 2009, 12:26:33 PM
Those guys seemed pretty aggressive to me. While crossing the street may have been a good idea I suspect they would have crossed as well.
I was thinking the same thing too.
One of the realities of life as a woman is that you must constantly be aware of your surroundings when out. Going places that were second nature as a guy now may be incredibly dangerous. Men react differently when they see a female form. They are curious and want to see what you look like. In essence you can't expect not to get attention even if you pass 100 % of the time. Go out in pairs and especially at night be careful not to have to fumble for keys. Have them in your hand ready to go so you get in the car and lock the doors immediately. Do this even when you don't think you have to because it needs to be second nature. Parking lots can be very dangerous.
Now nothing I said has anything to do with being trans. Add an element of that into an encounter with a male and he goes into the panic that he has just been attracted to what he thinks is a man. Now throw in a second man who is a witness to this and just his presence encourages the first guy to get violent to prove he is not gay.
For me, there are many places that I just won't go anymore and when I am out, I like to be with a female friend. If the friend is trans and is only partially passable, I am more likely to get clocked as is she. Add another transwoman in the group and the risk increases even more. So, this sort of inhibits a lot of public get togethers but I will often do it and be ever more vigilant to any guy looking at us.
As the debate for ENDA heats up this month, I expect transsexuals to be in the spotlight of the religious right who will try to paint us as badly as they can. This may incite more people to be hostile, so I plan to have my guard up even more this fall.
Maggie
Quote from: Maggie Kay on September 11, 2009, 12:44:42 PM
One of the realities of life as a woman is that you must constantly be aware of your surroundings when out. Going places that were second nature as a guy now may be incredibly dangerous. Men react differently when they see a female form. They are curious and want to see what you look like. In essence you can't expect not to get attention even if you pass 100 % of the time. Go out in pairs and especially at night be careful not to have to fumble for keys. Have them in your hand ready to go so you get in the car and lock the doors immediately. Do this even when you don't think you have to because it needs to be second nature. Parking lots can be very dangerous.
Now nothing I said has anything to do with being trans. Add an element of that into an encounter with a male and he goes into the panic that he has just been attracted to what he thinks is a man. Now throw in a second man who is a witness to this and just his presence encourages the first guy to get violent to prove he is not gay.
For me, there are many places that I just won't go anymore and when I am out, I like to be with a female friend. If the friend is trans and is only partially passable, I am more likely to get clocked as is she. Add another transwoman in the group and the risk increases even more. So, this sort of inhibits a lot of public get togethers but I will often do it and be ever more vigilant to any guy looking at us.
As the debate for ENDA heats up this month, I expect transsexuals to be in the spotlight of the religious right who will try to paint us as badly as they can. This may incite more people to be hostile, so I plan to have my guard up even more this fall.
Maggie
Excellent post!
Quote from: Dana Lane on September 11, 2009, 12:58:15 PM
Excellent post!
I agree, and I'll only add never, EVER leave your drink unattended at a bar. ;)
I've definitely gotten a crash course in being female in the world over the past year and a half!
Quote from: Maggie Kay on September 11, 2009, 12:44:42 PM
Now nothing I said has anything to do with being trans. Add an element of that into an encounter with a male and he goes into the panic that he has just been attracted to what he thinks is a man. Now throw in a second man who is a witness to this and just his presence encourages the first guy to get violent to prove he is not gay.
Yeah, that is definitely true, two guys are FAR more dangerous than one.
[quote author=Maggie Kay link=topic=65029.msg432002#msg432002 date=1252691082
As the debate for ENDA heats up this month, I expect transsexuals to be in the spotlight of the religious right who will try to paint us as badly as they can. This may incite more people to be hostile, so I plan to have my guard up even more this fall.
Maggie
[/quote]
Yeah, that's true also, I heard that one senator referred to trans people as "freaks" this week.
Yes. I also walked at night as in guy mode when I first went out in full dress in the U.S. After experiencing a life-threatening incident, I became very careful in walking outdoors. I looked at other girls, noting that most of them walk outdoors in two or more, never alone, even at day time in the mall.
Fortunately, after I came back to here my country, I do not need to worry about it any longer. It is crowded and many sexy and young girls in hot pants or miniskirts stroll alone without any fear at midnight. Some times I become one of them ;D
By the way, Seattle generally seemed to me a safe place.
Barbie~~
Tank Grrl, I'm glad you learned a valuable lesson without getting hurt. I noticed right away after starting RLE that I felt more vulnerable. I mentioned this to a cis-girl friend and she said as I become more open I will be more vulnerable, but I think it's more than that. I am vulnerable as a woman and doubly so as what in many eyes is an ersatz woman.
Before I started this odyssey I had to think long and hard about two things: accepting myself as I am, and accepting the very real possibility of encountering violence. Thank you, Tank Grrl, for your posting. We all need to be reminded now and then of the dangers that lurk out there for those of us who are different than the norm.
Some guys like to show that they are in control and see women as controllable objects. They also don't like to be made fools of. Keep yourself safe.
- Kate
That is scary. I am glad that you are OK! I feel vulnerable in the parking lot when it gets dark out in nice places, so I wouldn't even risk a street.
Quote from: Tank Grrl on September 11, 2009, 12:08:00 PM
I'm actually pretty good with a .38, I used to go to the range all the time.
I hate to be a jerk, but an off body carry, especially in a purse probably wouldn't do you any good, and neither would a knife. A person can cross 21 feet in the time it takes you to draw a holstered gun (and that is if you are training regularly and can draw fast). That would put the barrel of the gun right in front of them. On top of that, if you're gun is on safety, then you have to take off the safety (assuming yours has a safety), or cock it, etc. If you carry a semi-auto, safety on or off, cocked, not cocked, quarter cocked? Round chambered? See what I am getting at?
So, now your gun is in your purse. How accessible is it? ßDo you have to unzip your purse to get at it? Do you have to rummage for it, or can you grab it right away? What happens if they are close and grab your purse before you get it out, then what?
Like someone else said, shooting non moving paper targets is way different than shooting at real people. I will tell you the first time I pointed a rifle at another person was really much crazier than I thought it would be. The adrenaline makes it worse too, you get shaky, it gets hard to think straight.
I know it sounds nuts, but if you are going to carry a gun, practice drawing, acquiring, dry firing every day. Do it at the range. Secure the scene (check your surroundings). When I was carrying concealed, I would practice drawing, removing the safety, acquiring, and shooting (dry firing) every day. I set a time aside every night to practice, even if it was just a couple times. Trying to draw really fast when you aren't 100%, on top of a ->-bleeped-<-ty situation with adrenaline will make you fumble.
Find a competent firearms instructor and take a course. If the situation every does arise where you need to draw your firearm, you need to place shots that count.
Guns make people feel safe, trust me I know. Don't let the gun make you think you can go in a more dangerous place just because you have it.
Sorry if I scared you, but sometimes it needs to be done. Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, but I don't want to see you hurt.
On a somewhat similar but different side note, be careful with martial arts too. I feel like a lot of times, martial arts will get you in a worse place when you encounter someone with street fighting experience. I also think the groin is not a sure knock down either. I have seen plenty of guys take hard shots to the groin, grunt and keep on going. Not to mention if they have are on any substances. I have also seen and heard about it taking multiple people to restrain one person on drugs, so you have to take them in to account.
Please be careful.
Tankie, I'm a past national pistol champ and as importantly, a cool head in a firefight or an imminant plane crash, etc. I'd rather carry:
COMMON SENSE
Parson's Ammonia, carry something you can squirt it with
COMMON SENSE
Sabre brand pepper spray, this brand has some CS in it
COMMON SENSE
Boxing/grappling/MMA training. Krav Maga is a good one.
COMMON SENSE
Good thing those man-legs of yours could run you outta there.
All of your plans and intentions for self-defence can go right out the window in a surprise attack so simply don't get in a bad situation! THINK!
I was 16 and had escaped to the big city (Toronto) where I was working shift work. (This was 1966 or 67) I was walking the five blocks from the subway to my boarding house around 11 p.m. one night. I wasn't dressed girly, just kind of androgynous working clothes. Being a country bumpkin, I had never thought of myself as "a target" although I had heard of "the subway rapist" (someone who was abducting, raping, and killing young women after leaving a subway station) and although legally "male" I had a reasonably nice figure.
The street was relatively quiet, quiet enough that I heard a car approaching from behind me but before I could even glance over my shoulder, the van was beside me, there was a hand over my mouth, and a strong arm around me. He threw me in the van so hard that it knocked me out when I hit my head on the other side!
I was probably only unconscious for a few minutes and when I started to come to we were entering a run-down industrial area that I knew was deserted. I knew I was in BIG TROUBLE! There guys were 'the subway rapist', they had killed everyone they had abducted, and when they found out I wasn't a normal girl, I was certainly going to be dead!
When they dragged me out of the van, I fought like a wildcat and screamed bloody murder! I bit, I scratched, I kicked - I just went frigging NUTS! They must have though they tied in to the Tasmanian Devil LOL! They were WAY stronger than me but I was quick and fighting for my life (and screaming all the while) as they were trying to rip my clothes off. The last thing I heard was a siren not too far away, then they slammed me into the side of the van and I was out cold (again).
I woke up in the hospital with a police officer sitting by my bed. Apparently my screams had been heard and someone called the police - that was the siren I heard. The police were very nice to me. Apparently I had 'inflicted some damage' on my attackers as the police found hair, blood, and cloth at the scene, the first physical evidence they had in the 'subway rapist' case.
The only "decision" I made that night that saved my life was deciding to "go nuts" and do as much damage as I could before they killed me. A gun, knife, or pepper spray would have been totally useless.
A FAR better decision would have been to take a different route, one that was longer but would have kept me in a busier part of the city.
Valerie: don't worry, i'm not going to carry, it does seem like more of a liability. I actually do know what it's like to handle a gun in a stressful situation. I had to pull my gun on someone in a road rage incident. He was approaching my car with a tire iron in his hand. I'm very glad I had all of the training I did, or I may have accidentally shot the guy. In retrospect, I should have just run him over. Honestly, the worst thing about adrenaline is when the situation is over and you need to scream, cry, throw things, break ->-bleeped-<-, lose your mind, etc.
Alex: man legs? seriously? that's insulting.
Thank you, Valerie, for this post. You speak wise words, woman. And Jane, your point is well taken. (And thank the stars for the person who called the cops after hearing your screams.)
I grew up in an inner-city neighborhood and have lived in quite a few of them around the US. I resumed firearms training again after deciding to become Kate and have received some excellent coaching. But the gun certainly has its limitations and should never replace COMMON SENSE (as Alex said).
When I lived in Iceland I had a two-wheel drive car. Many of the roads are just tracks that go off to who-knows-where and the weather can be horrendous even on the good roads. I often think that it really saved me a lot of grief by not having a four-wheel-drive car because I was much more cautious where I went and when I would venture out.
I try to remember that a gun can be like having four-wheel-drive – it can give you confidence that will get you in trouble. If you carry, know how to use it but act and consider your situation like it isn't there.
Stay safe. The world needs more transitioned TS's who are alive.
- Kate
I agree with the others who say you need to listen to what the little voice in the back of your head says. Also, the thread seems misnamed- it didn't seem like the real trouble started until you didn't pass.
Wow. Yes the "go nuts" route is a good one, it so often works because that's your body's natural way of defending itself. It's what animals do and it often works.
Taking the busier route wouild have been best of course.
1966, you were legally male back then? You must have been one of the very first FTMs. A real pioneer.
It's strange how much people mess with me now... I used to be much more paranoid, i carried my Glock or the .38 on my person at ALL times, yes even at work. I could draw and fire in about a second, I even trained how to shoot an assailant that was on top of me. Every other weekend, training, training, training. I was a (mostly) lean and muscular 205 lbs, worked construction, and was taking Aikido too. If those guys had encountered me as I was three years ago, THEY may have crossed the street. Well, that being said, I hated playing at being that person. The reason i was so paranoid, alienated and disgruntled was due to being trans and NOT transitioning and all the self-loathing that goes along with it. Probably also due to being psychologically, and physically abused until I left home.
Now I weigh 167 lbs,(I'm still 6ft tall, so that's pretty skinny) and the estrogen has worked very well at feminizing me. Honestly, I looked in the mirror the other day, and to my surprise(and joy) the only part of me that doesn't look female is the bits down there. I have undergone a (almost) complete transformation. NOW, people eff with me all the time, like it's a sport or something.
I guess I'm rambling because yesterday I had ANOTHER INCIDENT! It was not super scary like the other, but...
I was smoking a butt, waiting for my friend outside the store in Queen Anne neighborhood. I observed this bum with an open 40 oz in a paper bag just walk out into traffic, causing a bus to have to jam on the brakes. Of course he made a bee line for me to ask for a cig. As soon as he heard me say "no", he said "oh, you're a dude!" (yeah, my damn voice gives me away every time) I told him to leave me alone, but he kept harassing me. i started walking away, but he followed and kept taunting me. So, I pulled out my phone and said loudly "I'm calling 911!" He FINALLY began to walk away, muttering under his breath. So, when my friend came out and I told her what happened, she said I should have actually called 911, because the bum WAS harassing me and they would arrest him. So next time that's the first thing I'm going to do. 911 is a girl's best friend!
Post Merge: September 12, 2009, 01:17:37 PM
It may be due to the economy, but whatever it is, this city is getting CRAZY!!!
No insult meant about "man legs" but it sounds like you're likely, even with weight loss and feminization, a better runner than most gals. Bet you can throw a mean punch too. It's just plain old muscle memory.
Just because I'm a dude doesn't mean I'm gonna forget how to sew on a button!
Bums just love, some of 'em anyway, to get confrontational. Heck I'm 5'4" and weigh about 150 these days, T seems to be making me a bit bigger but it ain't gonna help my height or the fact that I'm a pretty small person. I face down bums all the time. They mostly leave me alone because they kinda pick up the vibe that I won't take any guff.
Max Wolf Valerio in his EXCELLENT (as in run some more, over to the book store, and get it!) book The Testosterone Files, points out that he became MORE susceptable to violence from guys after he was passing 100%. Rape became a remote fear, but the chance of just plain old getting beat got to be large.
I'm surprised these guys still pick on you after figuring out your a dude, everyone knows transgirls look like girls but can still hit like a guy.
Yeah, being 6ft tall means I have LONG legs, and now that I'm skinny, i can run like a effin gazelle!
I can't hit like a guy, i never could actually. The reason I've been taking martial arts since I was 11, is because I used to get beaten up on an almost daily basis as a kid. After i beat the tar out of a few kids who were bigger than me, they all mostly left me alone. I wasn't a good puncher, but I could kick like a mule!
Wow. There's a gal at my gym who's like Superwoman or something, tall, I think 6ft, muscled all over but not masculine type muscle like I'm trying for, very nice fit female type muscle.
Being on this site has been so enlightening, it makes me wonder if some of the gals there at the gym were born gals. I think it's great.
Quote from: Alex_C on September 12, 2009, 12:39:47 PM1966, you were legally male back then? You must have been one of the very first FTMs. A real pioneer.
Thanks Alex but not FtM, MtF. Yes, I think I have a 2 digit serial number :o ;D
This is a topic I have definitely been thinking a lot about. Being a truck driver, truck stops at night are not the most 'lone-woman' friendly places. As I only dress and have not gone fulltime yet i still have time to come up with a plan.
I'm not trying to be sexist, but being a fellow girl I want to look out for your own good.
Girls like us are genuinely weaker then men who are even the SAME WEIGHT AND HEIGHT AS US.
So besides the people here who complained about you and the situation, I want to envy you for running away.
No matter if you had a gun or not, a man runs faster then a women, usually has a better reaction time and would most likely take your gun from you and aim it back doing so.
In flight-or-fight stage caused by an adrenaline rush; Men typically fight while women run! So you have the flight-or-fight stage down. And men being in fight stage, his muscle mass and amplified with the adrenaline boost--He could of done some serious damage!
Next time, bring a friend--Either male or female, better if male; Then other males won't bug you! Or...Simply like others have acquired to say: Follow your gut feeling!
99% of the time it's right! ;)
Wearing high heels makes it very difficult to run. If they are a kind of boots, then you would not have a chance to take them off. Even men could be vulnerable if they wear heels.
I tend to be more careful when wearing heels, but again here it is safe to wear them at any time. Only problem is that my family and colleagues do not like it.
You see my recent photo in Nashville, TN, USA. You know why I wore sneakers instead of heels ;D.
Barbie~~
Bit of a scary time, but nice to see that it ended well enough and without incident.
I agree, I don't think just crossing the street would have really made to much of a difference to them. Except to maybe warn them in advance that you were scared and possibly giving them even more reason to act.
Quote from: FairyGirl on September 11, 2009, 12:21:55 PM
a woman needs to be aware at all times of her situation, where she is, and the potential dangers that could arise from it.
It's quite different from being a guy and going pretty much anywhere you want anytime you want. Stay safe!
Being a guy doesn't automatically make you safe.
I wholeheartedly agree with what Telka says below.
Quote from: tekla on September 11, 2009, 12:30:52 PM
There are lots of places where even strong guys don't walk. And if you think its bad in NYC, LA (OK, no one walks anywhere in LA, still) or SF, or London (London has more places you can't walk, then places you can), you ought to try the third world.
Quote from: tekla on September 11, 2009, 12:33:42 PMThe rule of thumb is the richer the area, the safer you are, but the more likely to talk with a cop.
:laugh: Wow - I like you already, we do seem to think a like.
Quote from: finewine on September 11, 2009, 12:22:49 PM
What did old Bruce say in Enter the Dragon? "Boards don't hit back" :)
Bruce [Lee] also once said: Even I can't dodge a bullet. ;D
But I do have to agree, there is a big difference between the range and the real world and just how fast things can go from bad to worse.
Just remember the Samurai code.
They would not draw their sword unless they had to.
And if they did, is was to kill someone.
Being able to hit a target is one thing.
Being mentally able and prepared to [possibly] kill someone is something different.
Could you really do it?
And more importantly, could you live with yourself for doing it?
Years ago a friend and I were standing on the sidewalk in front of a fencing school we went to and talking, and because we were out on the street but not in cars, the cops kept checking up on us. People get arrested for not being in a car in Los Angeles, among them writer Ray Bradbury and chess champion Bobby Fischer.
Riding a bicycle in LA is pretty much like wearing a bacon necklace to a PETA convention. Your a target, you know, so do all the drivers. And there's not a lot of bike lanes. Strike that, I never found any lanes anywhere I wanted to go, except along the Coast - Santa Monica had a great ride along the ocean up on the palisades.
But ya' in LA without a car your already guilty - they just need to figure out what the charge is. Of course that's pretty much all LA Robocops all the time.
Quote from: Alex_C on September 24, 2009, 01:03:22 PM
Years ago a friend and I were standing on the sidewalk in front of a fencing school we went to and talking, and because we were out on the street but not in cars, the cops kept checking up on us. People get arrested for not being in a car in Los Angeles, among them writer Ray Bradbury and chess champion Bobby Fischer.
The comedian David Brenner used to riff about the car culture in L.A., and had a joke about cops seeing a guy walking down the street and pulling up to him: "Hey! What do you think you're doing moving your legs like this (makes walking motion with two fingers) ya pervert?"
Quote from: Samantha6000 on September 24, 2009, 12:51:34 PM
Being able to hit a target is one thing.
Being mentally able and prepared to [possibly] kill someone is something different.
Could you really do it?
And more importantly, could you live with yourself for doing it?
Yes and yes.
I also would not draw my weapon unless I absolutely had to. If I did draw it would be only to defend myself.
I've actually had a lot more training than I've let on. I've fired thousands of rounds during defensive pistol training. Drawing and firing while strafing, firing from a vehicle, firing at targets in a vehicle, extreme close range firing, firing after being knocked to the ground, firing at targets moving toward me, clearing malfunctions, reloading, etc.
I used to be much more paranoid and fearful before I began transition, that's why I felt the need to train like that.
The instructor said that the most important part of defending one's self was to always be alert and also to avoid any potential situation if at all possible. Definitely wise words.
Personally, I think it's disgusting that a woman (and, to some extent, a man) cannot walk down a street at night because of some Neanderthals who still live in the stone age. If I have to go out at night when it's dark, I make sure I don't scare any lone women (even though I'm not a threat, they will probably see me as one due to my being male-bodied) by not walking behind them or anything.
I read something about how women could shout out a man's name as if he were close by, and that could scare off any would be attackers.
In my opinion, women should use any attack they can to defend them (kicking the groin, gouging the eyes etc), and if they are confident enough, to carry a gun where it is legal to do so. I would also recommend taking kickboxing classes - I know two very talented kickboxing women who are very good at it.
You don't even need kickboxing if you've ever kicked the heck out of a soda machine etc. just remember in the real world, kicks are rarely delivered above the waist, their knees, groin (duh) and feet/ankles are targets. Have the confidence you had when you beat Max The Soda Machine and you'll have a real advantage.
QuoteBeing mentally able and prepared to [possibly] kill someone is something different. Could you really do it? And more importantly, could you live with yourself for doing it?
That is something I had to give serious thought to a few years ago.
Three people had killed an RCMP officer some distance away and made their escape by car. They had stolen other vehicles when their's ran low on gas and from the locations of the thefts they were coming my way, apparently trying to make their way to the city rather than be caught by the police "where there were no witnesses". Since I live alone in the country with no close neighbours, I had to consider what I would do if they showed up in my yard. They were obviously armed and dangerous and having killed a cop, they had nothing to loose by additional killings.
After due consideration, I loaded a double barrelled 12 Ga. and kept it close until they were captured (just as I imagine most farm people were doing).
Could I have shot? Yes. Would I have shot? Yes. And as a competitive shooter, I would have hit what I aimed at, even in the dark. I am just glad I didn't have to do it. If they had not already killed, it would have been a lot harder to make that decision.