This is a biggest FOLLY one can do is to reveal a straight whom you're in love with that you are transsexual specially if you're passing. From 1997 till now, I fell in love with 14 men deeply and tried to bind earth and sky so that they love me, did EVERTHING I could but in VAIN. Cried, attempted suicide several times but they didn't give a ->-bleeped-<-. Some cared and say they can stay as a very good friend but I'm FED UP HEARING 'WE CAN BE GOOD FRIENDS! I LIKE YOU BUT I DON'T LOVE YOU! IF YOU WERE A GIRL I COULD HAVE LOVED YOU BUT YOU'RE NOT! The last and recent worst one just happened beginning of September. You all remember how in the Hormones Category I was telling you I am deeply in love with a guy at work and cannot tell him, the day I thrashed out the truth, RESULT: "YOU ->-bleeped-<-GOT, I'M NOT ->-bleeped-<-, GO FIND ANOTHER ->-bleeped-<-GOT LIKE YOU, HOW DID YOU EVEN DARE THINKING OF ME, GET LOST, STOP HARASSING ME OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO THE HR AND STOP SENDING ME ANONYMOUS SMS OR I'LL FILE A COMPLAINT TO THE POLICE!'. For a while I was absent from the forum it's when again my suicide follies came and I attempted again taking sleeping pills ending hospital. Now I am just like a living zombie struggling to recover physically/mentally.
Pouf! Look what the hell I have to undergo everyday just becoz I am not a genetic female AND IT IS THE MAIN REASON I AM TRANSITIONING. :embarrassed:
3 TYPED OF STRAIGHTS
1. The extreme ones who would NOT accept you even you're a post-op knowing your past. They should not know at all, they fall into majority of the 'typical straights'.
2. The ones who CAN accept you BUT only if you're post-op.
3. These ones have fallen into your charm and beauty and they generally make an exception for you. I know some mtf transsexuals who are even LOVED by straight men. Unfortunately all men I have fallen in love are in category 1.
It's very risky to reveal a straight as you can't be sure if he's a 1, 2 or 3 but if you really love him sooner or later you must tell him but you reveal only if your 100% sure he will continue loving you as many of their supposedly love are just fake. Many accepted me before when I disguised in female but AS SOON AS I told them what I am, they fled like hell. ->-bleeped-<-ing hurtful!
Unfortuntely ftms cant usually do that because our bottom surgery is quite primitive.
You've been deeply in love with 14 guys since 1997? That's over a 1 guy per year average. Perhaps you should concentrate more on being happy with yourself than trying to find love. Really, there is a lot of pain involved when you try to change or mask who you are in order to be accepted. Accept yourself first then be open to finding someone else who will love and accept you.
Quote from: Kyle :3 on September 16, 2009, 05:57:11 PM
Unfortuntely ftms cant usually do that because our bottom surgery is quite primitive.
Yeah but you must use your cleverness/imagination to find excuses like: 'Well you know, I was born without testicles, this is a rare case that happens to boys but well what to do I'm like this'. Am sure they won't even know as an average person doesn't even know how phalloplasty functions. Testicles are not really that important to girls, importance to them is penis.
For example me in the past I disguised in girl, a straight guy wanted to have affair with my 'supposedly' vagina. Then I had to find an excuse and tell him well you know I can't cos I'm having my period right now and it's painful.
Use your imagination handsome, there are infinite excuses to find. ;)
Well my plan was to be stealth in my junior year of college. The only time Id tell someone im dating Im trans is if we began to get serious.
I have to agree with osiris. You do not have to tell but you really should focus more on yourself than just men. Trust me Im just as frustrated as you are for the same reason, but I also have to know that I am me first.
Quote from: Osiris on September 16, 2009, 06:05:50 PM
You've been deeply in love with 14 guys since 1997? That's over a 1 guy per year average.
Unfortunately the only way for me to forget the previous one is to quickly find and concentrate on another one to subcede the previous one and fortunately for me it works but it seems to be this chain effect is lasting forever now and I'm really more than exhausted now and still can't find my perfect match, so let's go under the knife.
Post Merge: September 16, 2009, 06:16:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle :3 on September 16, 2009, 06:11:52 PM
Well my plan was to be stealth in my junior year of college. The only time Id tell someone im dating Im trans is if we began to get serious.
I have to agree with osiris. You do not have to tell but you really should focus more on yourself than just men. Trust me Im just as frustrated as you are for the same reason, but I also have to know that I am me first.
Yeah but you know you you're male and you're stronger than us mentally to be able to control feelings. We women are sensitive, not to mention those hormone ->-bleeped-<-s which amplifies our emotions tenfolds now. It's difficult for us to control feelings, we're women inside after all.
Shelina, honestly I think you need to back off from looking for the perfect match. While some guys may have a problem with you being trans I can guarantee that they have just as much, if not a bigger problem with you having an obsessive attachment to them. Genetic girls with the same behavior will have guys running from them.
I may be a man but the estrogen in my system makes me sensitive(unfortuntely).
And this for me is more than just orientation. I lived as a lesbian before I came out as trans. I figure if I really was a girl I would just fantasize and not wish i was a boy also. Ive known I was different since I was 4 years old. The attraction thing was more like what made me realize I was a boy more than the actual reason I wanted to be one.
Full disclosure to sexual partners before going all the way is not only a necessity, but a responsibility. Posts like this only serve as fodder for those people who use the gay panic defense. This is not about deception, or shouldn't be. If you can't trust the person with everything about you then perhaps you still havn't found the right person to share your life with. There is another issue there is no such things as stealth today. You have escaped one closet, only to willingly throw yourself right back into another one, thats even deeper and darker. Then spend every waking moment from that point forward panicing about the moment that WILL COME, when someone from your past recognizes you and blows your carefully constructed life err lie out of the water.
Well if someone were to ask if i was trans Id tell them I just dont think its something that the whole world needs to know.
Even if you are extremely passable, it's going to come out at some point, unless you're one of those kids we see today who have parents who are aware and open-minded enough to allow you to express your identified gender at a very early age. For them, it's possible they can remain stealth all their lives without being outed. For the rest of us, remaining stealth forever is not possible. There's too much baggage, family, friends, vital records that will out you even if your body, presentation, former gender markers don't do it first.
I don't believe we have to tell every person we see, but once an intimate relationship starts blossoming, it's time to talk.
Julie
Quote from: Susan on September 16, 2009, 06:54:07 PM
when someone from your past recognizes you and blows your carefully constructed life err lie out of the water.
Well Susan this is my biggest fear and it is then where I will have to play my role and find my pathetic excuses and just to deny, deny & deny. Just as some non-ops prefer staying non-ops and stay in denial due to fear of the society and prejudices, me I don't give a ->-bleeped-<- of society but straights that I love and I situate myself somewhere in between the strict non-ops and the openly-exposed transsexuals. We're all different in this world you know...
Quote from: Shelina on September 16, 2009, 07:14:29 PM
Well Susan this is my biggest fear and it is then where I will have to play my role and find my pathetic excuses and just to deny, deny & deny. Just as some non-ops prefer staying non-ops and stay in denial due to fear of the society and prejudices, me I don't give a ->-bleeped-<- of society but straights that I love and I situate myself somewhere in between the strict non-ops (gays) and the openly-exposed transsexuals. We're all different in this world you know...
Thats fine and all. But non op mtfs that are attracted to men are not gay
Well, the best advice I can give is SCREW GUYS!
...no, not like that.
I mean, there are better things then guys in life. Like friends, and whatever you are into. Be a strong woman and be independant, you don't need a guy!
Quote from: Heartwood on September 16, 2009, 07:16:45 PM
Well, the best advice I can give is SCREW GUYS!
...no, not like that.
:laugh: Cute Heartwood!
I disclose that I am trans right up front with any guy or girl that shows an interest in my if I am attracted to them. It just saves so much heart ache and drama later on. I have no desire to be stealth among my friends and/or romantic interest. Like Susan said... one closet for another, I just don't have any desire to hide for the rest of my life. Thirty two years was enough of that monkey poo!
Stop throwing yourself at them... it makes you look cheap and easy.
What I've learned over the years is that it's not you who needs to adjust. And it's not them that needs to adjust. You need to find your match with both of you as you are now. If you fall for who you think they will be, or they fall for you as who they think you will be, then you're in love with a fantasy. I'm not suggesting that relationships don't require work - they certainly do. They require honesty. They require communication. If you can't have either of those things in the relationship, it's doomed to failure. Remember - you don't have to make yourself fit their expectations, or make them fall in love with you. Love is a natural thing that develops mutually between two people when the conditions are right. Don't force it - it must develop organically.
And PLEASE work with your therapist. They will help build your self-esteem, and make what I just wrote easier to accept. Be patient - your time to shine will come when it's your time to shine. Wish you all the best, girl!
This is precisely why I only even THINK about dating people who already know I'm trans. Gets a lot of BS out of the way that could otherwise occur down the line. Oh, and Shelina... without some sort of bottom surgery, no ftm will be passable below the waist as a genetic guy, regardless of how much his clitoris grows on T.
SD
Perhaps you should look to date bi men instead. A few days ago I told the guy I lost my virginity to that I have boobs now. He doesn't see anything wrong with that since he was attracted to me because i was so femme anyway. :laugh:
Or tell people before you're deeply in love - or slow down how fast you fall deeply in love.
Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 12:50:29 AM
Perhaps you should look to date bi men instead.
Or tell people before you're deeply in love - or slow down how fast you fall deeply in love.
Yes! This!
Quote from: Susan on September 16, 2009, 06:54:07 PM
Full disclosure to sexual partners before going all the way is not only a necessity, but a responsibility. Posts like this only serve as fodder for those people who use the gay panic defense. This is not about deception, or shouldn't be. If you can't trust the person with everything about you then perhaps you still havn't found the right person to share your life with. There is another issue there is no such things as stealth today. You have escaped one closet, only to willingly throw yourself right back into another one, thats even deeper and darker. Then spend every waking moment from that point forward panicing about the moment that WILL COME, when someone from your past recognizes you and blows your carefully constructed life err lie out of the water.
This so neatly sums up some of the major factors in why I stopped transition after I "passed". I couldn't deal with being in the closet that Susan mentions. Passing fully as a female just forced me to lock myself into a new set of expectations - something I was desperately trying to escape as a male.
Another big reason was that I knew how hard it would be for me to find a straight male who would accept me, and that thought haunted me most nights. I knew it would be my responsibility as someone who loved him to be open with him about my past, but I also knew the heartache that would bring more often than not.
I'm sorry about your bad experiences to date, it sucks, but I believe it is certainly possible to find someone to be happy with.
QuoteFrom 1997 till now, I fell in love with 14 men deeply and tried to bind earth and sky so that they love me
Ummm......
QuoteUnfortunately the only way for me to forget the previous one is to quickly find and concentrate on another one to subcede the previous one and fortunately for me it works but it seems to be this chain effect is lasting forever now and I'm really more than exhausted
I don't want to be the cynic here but I'm going to - that thing you fell more than once a year for the last 12 years?
That ain't love.
No one falls in love 14 times in 12 years unless it's with puppies or kittens.
the best thing you can do to find someon to REALLY be in love with is simple - quit looking.
Concentrate on YOU, who YOU are and who you are going to be - define yourself based on the content of your own being FIRST.
If you allow the "completeness" of your existance to be defined primarily through the approval of someone you are "in love" with you are being no more true to yourself than if you allow complete strangers to humiliate you as a pervert or a freak.
But all that aside, a saner definition of what it is to be "in love" can only help you. Re-fixing your emotions on an available target while on the rebound from the last failed attempt isn't love, no matter what it feels like.
Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 12:50:29 AM
Perhaps you should look to date bi men instead.
Bi men for you is equivalent to my Category 3. Yeah of course I can but I haven't fallen in love yet with them. Most of them were more about sex. And personally as a straight mtf I am attracted the most to the category 1 'extreme straight men'.
may i ask just how old are you? you look around 20 in the picture, if that is you and if the pic is of a recent date :)
Quote from: Mari on September 17, 2009, 03:49:54 AM
may i ask just how old are you? you look around 20 in the picture, if that is you and if the pic is of a recent date :)
I'm in my mid twenties. That pic anyway is not recent and was the time I looked feminine and undamaged. Now the testosterone has ruined everything. Facial hair, more prominent adam apple, beard, mandibular jaws, deep voice, wide shoulders. It's a complete living nightmare! I'm striving to get back my lost feminity. Before, when I was younger than in the pic I looked naturally female when I was a child, in early adolescence people use to think I am a lesbian and my female voice was still here and when cross dressing I was passing 100%, now they say I look like a ->-bleeped-<-. Very seldom I pass, but most of the times I do not anymore now compared to before, that's why you never see a current pic of mine now.
I'd rather be honest, up front, and open. And be either loved or hated as who and what I am, as is, with all my baggage, history and issues. Than risk having the lie through omission be discovered, and ruining an established relationship.
The truth is always preferrable to lies in my experience. It's the only way to find a person who'll accept you as you are, because people can not accept you as you are if you don't show/tell them how you are. And then when they find out later that you aren't what they thought you were, they'll be hurt and angered. Even people that would have accepted you can decide they can't be with you because they feel cheated.
I can only speak from a male perspective, being a heterosexual male myself. Most men have this 'ego' thing going on. You know, when you tell them, when you pour your heart out, and they suddenly manage to turn everything around so that it's all about them and no longer about you? That's it, that's what I'm talking about. Somehow, they _have_ to put themselves somewhere into the equation. For some reason, they start questioning themselves, and their fragile little egos cannot handle that. Most people (both men and women) are unable, unwilling to think about themselves.
If you tell someone, and they react poorly, it's not about you. It's about them, and their unability, unwillingness to confront themselves. Somehow, they feel confronted by themselves. They run away, not from you, my dear Shelina, but from themselves...
This is why it is a good idea to be very careful who you divulge this information to. Usually, if you learn to know a person, you can somewhat predict their reaction beforehand.
There are men out there who appreciate you for who you are. Who don't care what you are born as, but who appreciate you for the woman you are. And no, they are not gay or bi or even bi-curious... You're a woman, period. You're a lady, and you deserve to be treated as such.
Alas, they are few and far in between... What does it matter what you are born as? It doesn't matter a single thing. It's only a shell, what matters is what lies inside, the person behind the facade (if I may call it that). What matters, is what you have within yourself to become... Everything else doesn't matter.
When my girlfriend (m2f post-op) told me, my entire world view, so carefully construed according to my own illusions, was greatly shaken and decisively altered. I had never been confronted with gender disphoria before. It had no place in my world, simply because I was ignorant, I did not even know it existed... And yet, right in front of me, there was this girl who I got along with so great, and she told me 'she didn't always look like this'.
I've said this a number of times already here, but it only took me two seconds to realise it didn't matter one bit... I was startled, yes, but who wouldn't be? After she told me, she looked deep into my eyes, and I realised it didn't change what a wonderful person she is. She has the most beautiful eyes I've ever seen. She truly is a queen among women.
We're not all like those 'men' you've encountered. Some of us genuinly care, appreciate you for who you are. But it is true, we're few and far in between. Please do not let that dissuade you from being the wonderful person you are...
Quote from: Laura Hope on September 17, 2009, 02:42:00 AM
I don't want to be the cynic here but I'm going to - that thing you fell more than once a year for the last 12 years?
That ain't love.
No one falls in love 14 times in 12 years unless it's with puppies or kittens.
the best thing you can do to find someon to REALLY be in love with is simple - quit looking.
Concentrate on YOU, who YOU are and who you are going to be - define yourself based on the content of your own being FIRST.
If you allow the "completeness" of your existance to be defined primarily through the approval of someone you are "in love" with you are being no more true to yourself than if you allow complete strangers to humiliate you as a pervert or a freak.
But all that aside, a saner definition of what it is to be "in love" can only help you. Re-fixing your emotions on an available target while on the rebound from the last failed attempt isn't love, no matter what it feels like.
What Laura said.
The only times I've found love - real love - was when I wasn't looking for it.
Learn to accept yourself. If you can't accept yourself, how do you expect someone else to?
Learn to become a lovable person. If you are so needy you aren't complete without someone loving you, you will have a hard time finding someone and who you do find will probably not treat you well. Work on becoming a whole person that people will want to be with, first as friends.
Life 101: You can only control yourself; you cannot control how others think or react.
Good luck.
- Kate
Quote from: Shelina on September 17, 2009, 03:36:35 AM
Bi men for you is equivalent to my Category 3. Yeah of course I can but I haven't fallen in love yet with them. Most of them were more about sex. And personally as a straight mtf I am attracted the most to the category 1 'extreme straight men'.
Are you sure that your definition of love isn't infatuation? I haven't even been infatuated with 14 people in my life.
I'm not sure that many other straight MTF are attracted mostly to "extreme straight men" since, at least to me, the label conjures up someone who's identity is entirely entwined with his sexuality, and anything that might remotely chip at it is a mortal sin. Also that they're violent and will hurt us.
Personally speaking, I'll take shallow sex over being beaten.
I have actually been battling my personal image of men for some time. Society tells us that men who are kind, or considerate, or bi, or gay, are less than dirt. Well, it's a little better now, but not much. When I meet a guy who's nice to me, my instincts tell me that he's weak. Probably just how a lot of people who see me as a man think. I think that's unfairly judging men and a great example of the pressures that men face in society.
Well...I'm probably done with the whole dating thing but if I ever got with a straight woman/gay man I'd have to tell them I'm trans. It might make dating harder, but I wouldn't feel right keeping that from them
Quote from: Shelina on September 17, 2009, 03:36:35 AM
Bi men for you is equivalent to my Category 3. Yeah of course I can but I haven't fallen in love yet with them. Most of them were more about sex. And personally as a straight mtf I am attracted the most to the category 1 'extreme straight men'.
What do you mean by "extreme straight" as opposed to just "straight" (heterosexual)?
Susan's reply was bang on the money and, as I've said myself, it's not cool to surprise even the most liberally minded of people and then expect them to shrug it off unperturbed.
Finally, I'm doubtful that an entirely straight guy, without even a hint of bi-curiosity, is going to be comfortable being sexually intimate with a
pre-operative MtF. The relationship might be "straight" psychologically but physically it's hard to ignore the few extra dangling ounces, even if they're not actively used for sex.
A transsexual woman is a woman who was born with a bran of a female & a body of a male. If she's had that treated, and had her legal identity corrected, there is no fraud in her marrying a man; she is a woman (not 'an abomination').
We don't have anything to declare either! Some of the posts here seem to indicate that we have something to hide, to be ashamed of or that who we are is an act or something. Well it's none of the above. I'm not obligated to tell anyone my private medical information,
Also because some of you have this bias I have to assume you believe that a post-op transsexual woman is still their gender as assigned at birth. Wrong again. I was never male. I have always been female. So why should I tell them I was something I never was?? I had a birth condition and I fixed it. That's all there's to it.
Further, I don't have a problem. People have a problem. Transsexuality is a naturally occurring birth condition. I was born with a brain-body mismatch and it's not my, or anyone else's, fault. It is NOT a choice. Society needs to learn this. I refuse to cater to a transphobic society, I have nothing to explain or apologise for.
Quote from: Valentina on September 18, 2009, 04:03:22 AM
A transsexual woman is a woman who was born with a bran of a female & a body of a male. If she's had that treated, and had her legal identity corrected, there is no fraud in her marrying a man; she is a woman (not 'an abomination').
We don't have anything to declare either! Some of the posts here seem to indicate that we have something to hide, to be ashamed of or that who we are is an act or something.
Are we reading the same thread? I don't see such assertions implied in previous responses.
Quote
Well it's none of the above. I'm not obligated to tell anyone my private medical information,
I would agree in most cases except where a serious, potential life partnership, is concerned.
If my partner wants children but I lack the faculties, should I commit a lie of omission for reasons of personal privacy?
Quote
Further, I don't have a problem. People have a problem. Transsexuality is a naturally occurring birth condition. I was born with a brain-body mismatch and it's not my, or anyone else's, fault. It is NOT a choice. Society needs to learn this. I refuse to cater to a transphobic society, I have nothing to explain or apologise for.
Your quite right in that you have nothing to apologise for. However, the latter context of this thread has been around dating and sexual contact.
In an encounter with a pre-operative trans-person, a heterosexual, cisgendered person with no understanding or experience of gender dysphoria *is* going to be surprised and quite possibly uncomfortable because they don't have access to your subjective experience - only an objective view of your genital configuration. While it may be a comforting conceit to dismiss this as transphobia, I have to strongly disagree.
For example, there's a big difference between a straight guy being homophobic and not wanting to have sex with a partner who has male morphology. So why should that same straight guy be tagged as transphobic just because of
your dysphoria. I had to burst any bubbles here but that's not
his problem either.
In short, don't wallow in misplaced righteous indignation and misconstrue everything that doesn't go ones way as prejudice.
Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 01:19:27 AM
What do you mean by "extreme straight" as opposed to just "straight" (heterosexual)?
Category 1 (Extreme Straight) will NEVER cede to a transsexual(both pre-op & post-op) no matter what just because you are not a genetic female. They view you extremely OBJECTIVELY.
Category 2 (Moderate Straight) They accept you ONLY if you are a post-op and have the correct body to satisfy them.
Category 3 (Liberal Straight) They view you as a woman and accept you as you are whether pre-op or post-op and their perception on you is more SUBJECTIVE. They are the minority of straights unfortunately.Sorry I have created my own terms cos I get confused with the common terms people use. I presume my Category 1= Straight Category 2:BiCurious Category 3:Bi I am not sure though, please correct me if I am wrong. Gender is something very complex which is exploding my head and I am learning new stuffs like I recently learnt 'lesbian mft transsexuals' and another ones who are mtf transsexual but are attracted only to straight females. All this is very confusing and convoluting. I admit I get lost sometmes.
Those three different categories are all straight people. The issue isn't "how straight" they are, but how secure they are in their own self identity, sexuality, and so on and so forth. Has nothing to do with their sexual preference in reality.
Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 11:35:28 PM
Personally speaking, I'll take shallow sex over being beaten.
Amen, sister.
Quote from: Valentina on September 18, 2009, 04:03:22 AM
We don't have anything to declare either! Some of the posts here seem to indicate that we have something to hide, to be ashamed of or that who we are is an act or something. Well it's none of the above. I'm not obligated to tell anyone my private medical information,
I am a transsexual. This is a normal condition and I am a normal person. I have many friends and acquaintances that know I am transsexual. If there is any chance that a potential partner would meet any of those friends or acquaintances - or know or meet anyone who knows any of those friends or acquintances - I want him to know that I am transsexual before he finds it out from another source.
And I believe Shelina is pre-op. The very idea of not telling a partner you are a pre-op transsexual before they discover it for themselves shows very little concern for the feelings of your partner. Surprise! I have an outie!
Are we talking about love here or are we talking about finding someone to have sex with?
- Kate
QuoteSurprise! I have an outie!
Oh that made me chuckle :)
I also want to add..
To suggest that a man has to be bisexual to be attracted to a male to female transsexual is indirectly suggesting that mtfs aren't women.
To me, you girls are all girls. To a man who can get over his own personal issues (should he have them), you girls are girls.
No bisexuality/homosexuality required!
_
As a man in a woman's body, I would be seriously insulted if someone would suggest that I'd have to look for straighter men and gayer women because of my medical history instead of being honest and accepted as the man I am. Like I am.
Yes my partner is bi, but to him, I'm a man. No ifs ands or buts!
Quote from: Miniar on September 18, 2009, 09:04:08 AM
I also want to add..
To suggest that a man has to be bisexual to be attracted to a male to female transsexual is indirectly suggesting that mtfs aren't women.
Really? Yet folks protest that gender was in the brain, not the body - so why is suggesting a straight man won't be interested in male
genital anatomy suggesting pre-op mtf's aren't women?
We're talking purely about the physical here. An entirely straight man is unlikely to find masculine genitalia sexually attractive - I suspect they will find it off-putting most of the time.
Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 09:24:23 AM
Really? Yet folks protest that gender was in the brain, not the body - so why is suggesting a straight man won't be interested in male genital anatomy suggesting pre-op mtf's aren't women?
We're talking purely about the physical here. An entirely straight man is unlikely to find masculine genitalia sexually attractive - I suspect they will find it off-putting most of the time.
If you find a woman sexually attractive, does that depend entirely on what's in her pants?
Quote from: Miniar on September 18, 2009, 09:27:47 AM
If you find a woman sexually attractive, does that depend entirely on what's in her pants?
Your inversion is misrepresenting my argument.
I'm not saying it depends solely on what's in her underwear.
I'm saying a straight guy is almost certainly not going to want to be intimate with male genital morphology.
Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 09:35:07 AM
Your inversion is misrepresenting my argument.
I'm not saying it depends solely on what's in her underwear.
I'm saying a straight guy is almost certainly not going to want to be intimate with male genital morphology.
And I didn't say that a straight guy will want to be intimate with male genitals, I said that a straight man can be attracted to a woman (who happens to have a penis) without being bisexual or gay. And that a straight man can learn to accept her as a woman (who happens to have a penis) without having to be bisexual or gay.
And that the insistence that a man has to be bi/gay to find an mtf attractive is suggesting that she's not a woman.
Quote from: Miniar on September 18, 2009, 09:39:27 AM
And I didn't say that a straight guy will want to be intimate with male genitals, I said that a straight man can be attracted to a woman (who happens to have a penis) without being bisexual or gay. And that a straight man can learn to accept her as a woman (who happens to have a penis) without having to be bisexual or gay.
And that the insistence that a man has to be bi/gay to find an mtf attractive is suggesting that she's not a woman.
Oh, "can be" as in "it's possible"? Sure, there's a finite possibility.
But is it likely? No. Are you
seriously suggesting otherwise? Why do you think we hear so many tales of straight guys reacting negatively? How many straight ->-bleeped-<-s do you think there are? The vast majority seem to be looking to satisfy decidedly NON heterosexual fantasies.
Mate, I'm not trying to be deliberately disagreeable. I genuinely think that this community, particularly one focused on support, needs a dose of pragmatic realism to counter-balance the idealism sometimes. I don't mean to sound critical because I really do care and it bothers me to think about highly unrealistic expectations getting set.
Quote from: Autumn on September 17, 2009, 11:35:28 PM
Personally speaking, I'll take shallow sex over being beaten.
Wow, that really resonated with me. I'd imagine the point is moot for most, but in my opinion if you can get away with not telling post op then go for it. We aren't talking about an "Oh by the way, I tried weed once" kinda thing, this is on a different level than most disclosures. Really I'd think one's only "obligation" would be to fess up that they can't bear children due to a birth defect. That's just one opinion though.
Shelina, 14 guys, I'm impressed. How are you disease free, or are you? I mean both physical and mental... seriously go talk to someone. I feel tired and used after 2 guys in 8 years, I can only imagine what's going on in that noggin of yours. People who live like that usually have underlying issues, it's not just because they really like boys. Fooling around preop with straight guys is just asking for it, come on. When I start fooling around with a guy my hand is in his crotch in short order and were I to fool around with a girl, ew, I don't imagine that would be any different.
Quote from: finewine on September 18, 2009, 09:53:36 AM
Oh, "can be" as in "it's possible"? Sure, there's a finite possibility.
But is it likely? No. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise? Why do you think we hear so many tales of straight guys reacting negatively? How many straight ->-bleeped-<-s do you think there are? The vast majority seem to be looking to satisfy decidedly NON heterosexual fantasies.
Mate, I'm not trying to be deliberately disagreeable. I genuinely think that this community, particularly one focused on support, needs a dose of pragmatic realism to counter-balance the idealism sometimes. I don't mean to sound critical because I really do care and it bothers me to think about highly unrealistic expectations getting set.
Look.
What I'm saying is really simple.
I understand that a straight man might not want to have sex with a woman who's currently equipped with a penis. I'm saying that you don't have to be gay to find trans-girls sexually attractive, even if they are pre-op.
Finding someone sexually attractive doesn't require you to see them naked.
Finding someone romantically and emotionally attractive doesn't require you to see them naked either.
If you are told, as a woman, that the only way you're going to be found physically, sexually, romantically, and emotionally attractive, is if you go out with a homosexual male (or a bi one at least) is suggesting you're not a woman, or at the very least, that you're not woman enough.
Dating a straight man pre-op will probably mean waiting a while before sex, or some imaginative way of excluding your current plumbing from sexual play.
But it doesn't mean HE is in any way homosexual.
Quote from: Miniar on September 18, 2009, 03:01:11 PM
Look.
What I'm saying is really simple.
I understand that a straight man might not want to have sex with a woman who's currently equipped with a penis. I'm saying that you don't have to be gay to find trans-girls sexually attractive, even if they are pre-op.
Finding someone sexually attractive doesn't require you to see them naked.
Finding someone romantically and emotionally attractive doesn't require you to see them naked either.
Sure, a hot looking girl looks very sexy clothed and I'm sure she may have a cracking personality that one could emotionally bond with. Neither of which are the points I'm asserting, which is that
sooner or later he will want to bump uglies and then it will be an issue. The context I originally replied to was in dating, disclosure and sex.
Ah, forget it...I give up. Believe what you want, I'm sure the collective experience of the pre-op community will bear your position out. ::)
Well, if you're pre-op, you've got no choice, you've got to tell. There's no way you can hide a penis no matter how well you tuck. If you're a post-op, you've got a choice but it's a risky one. I've met a couple of older women that told their husbands after years of marriage. They're still together but not every relationship's the same & not everybody's that lucky. There have been instances when people have ended up being killed too. Personally, I'd tell but that's just me. Even though I'm post-operative, my fiance knows because we plan to marry in the future & there has got to be trust & honesty in a relationship before we both say 'I do'.
Quote from: Jeannette on September 19, 2009, 01:32:11 PM
there has got to be trust & honesty in a relationship
I've always and still do think it should be up to the individual about disclosing post op, without judgement from those who haven't walked in her shoes or those who have. However that comment made me think, you know, disclosing something like that has got to be on top of the list of ways of finding out if he
really loves you.
Once all surgery is completed you are no longer TS but the sex you were meant to be. By needing to divulge the past, its the same as admitting you are still the former gender in some respect.
I'm not, never was & never will be a male. and refuse to tell people that I was. and the few moments I might have enjoyed whilst in the body of a male are not enough to validate the life I've had to this point. I was screwed out of girlhood, and years of womanhood. I see nothing desirable to look back on and say "this was me," because it was not. If anything, I was born with a birth defect. I was born female with all the wrong parts.
Does my BF know my past? He does but that's because we met before I had GRS. If I were single & looking, I wouldn't say a word to anyone.
QuoteFor post-op women; Revealing your private medical history is a very PERSONAL decision, and no one has the right to tell you "do this or do that". It's something YOU have to decide for yourself.
yup! people are right for them. nobody has the right to make such decisions for me.
Quote from: Leslie on September 20, 2009, 04:52:51 AM
Once all surgery is completed you are no longer TS but the sex you were meant to be. By needing to divulge the past, its the same as admitting you are still the former gender in some respect.
I'm not, never was & never will be a male. and refuse to tell people that I was. and the few moments I might have enjoyed whilst in the body of a male are not enough to validate the life I've had to this point. I was screwed out of girlhood, and years of womanhood. I see nothing desirable to look back on and say "this was me," because it was not. If anything, I was born with a birth defect. I was born female with all the wrong parts.
Does my BF know my past? He does but that's because we met before I had GRS. If I were single & looking, I wouldn't say a word to anyone.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg259.imageshack.us%2Fimg259%2F1431%2Fclappingbv7.gif&hash=144898c497c9c045592629bcc42813eb6f1026df)
I'm not particularly fond of being misrepresented. I'm cycling progesterone and spent about 45 minutes typing something very, very bitchy last night but I'm in a much better mood.
Shelina has had horrific experiences with straight men. After 14 of them, obviously she's doing something wrong. That might be in the way she goes about relationships, or who she's choosing to date. I mean no offense, but 14 beatings is probably a record.
My suggestion of dating bi men isn't foolproof. Bi people are NOT pansexual. There's no guarantee that just because someone is bi they'll want a trans person. However, bi people who have some experience can relate to being used sexually (or using sexually, as it may be) and are generally more comfortable with non-binary situations. It may be some sexual fantasy. It may be some chasing. But this is why I said that I'd prefer to have shallow sex and not be beaten.
I'm really offended that my suggestion to try bi guys is construed as being an attack on the female status of MTF, considering I'm on hormones myself and pursuing part time RLE right now. Further, taking the leap of logic that "Date bi men" which implies they're more open minded, obviously, since they like both sexualities to a degree, translates to "you have to be homosexual to date a transwoman" bothers me.
News flash, gay men hate breasts and jiggly girl asses. They don't like the way girls smell and don't like girly things. (This assumes that, since most "straight" MTF are, well, "straight", you'd be dating a masculine gay man, not a queen.) I'm clearly not suggesting a mtf to date gay men. It's just rude as all hell to condemn bi men as closet homosexuals and to put words in my mouth. It's more offensive than your suggestion that I was disparaging MTF, because society is already so cruel to bi men.
Further it feels like there's an allegation that being bi or homosexual is somehow a bad thing and that suggesting such a thing about a man is horrible. That's way too mainstream of thought for this website.
Can we just be realistic adults and admit that 'straight' 'bi' 'gay' are pretty much meaningless labels when dealing with transsexuals' partners? People are going to call you and your boyfriend ->-bleeped-<-gots even post-op if they're closed minded idiots, and the other side of the spectrum will call you straight even if you're pre-HRT and beard removal as long as you identify female.
There's a grey area where we express both sexual characteristics and it's just ridiculous to expect the average person to accept us entirely when you're sporting an A cup that's covered in black hair. Some people can deal with it, other people are just simply not attracted to things. Now later on when one presents more female (or male), things are different.
It's like saying that a transitioned FTM, since genital surgery is off the table for most, can date straight men because they have a vagina. Straight men don't want a big hairy muscular dude even if he has a vagina. Gay men don't want a girl with female sexual characteristics even if she has a (probably non functional) penis.
Relationships are way, way too complex to blanket.
Personally, when I was a boy, I was bothered that the really pretty, girly girls didn't give me the time of day. They'd openly make comments about never dating short men in my presence and it doesn't matter what I would have tried to do, they wouldn't have been interested. I think that's an analogy to "extreme" straight guys who could never accept a transwoman. Why pursue people who are not interested in you? If you have an unrealistic fantasy, change the fantasy.