mtf:NEVER reveal to a straight man ur transsexual! (ftm: Same to u in reverse)

[Miniar]

Your inversion is misrepresenting my argument.

I'm not saying it depends solely on what's in her underwear.

I'm saying a straight guy is almost certainly not going to want to be intimate with male genital morphology.

And I didn't say that a straight guy will want to be intimate with male genitals, I said that a straight man can be attracted to a woman (who happens to have a penis) without being bisexual or gay. And that a straight man can learn to accept her as a woman (who happens to have a penis) without having to be bisexual or gay.
And that the insistence that a man has to be bi/gay to find an mtf attractive is suggesting that she's not a woman.

[finewine]

And I didn't say that a straight guy will want to be intimate with male genitals, I said that a straight man can be attracted to a woman (who happens to have a penis) without being bisexual or gay. And that a straight man can learn to accept her as a woman (who happens to have a penis) without having to be bisexual or gay.
And that the insistence that a man has to be bi/gay to find an mtf attractive is suggesting that she's not a woman.

Oh, "can be" as in "it's possible"?  Sure, there's a finite possibility.

But is it likely?  No.  Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?  Why do you think we hear so many tales of straight guys reacting negatively?  How many straight ->-bleeped-<-s do you think there are?  The vast majority seem to be looking to satisfy decidedly NON heterosexual fantasies.

Mate, I'm not trying to be deliberately disagreeable.  I genuinely think that this community, particularly one focused on support, needs a dose of pragmatic realism to counter-balance the idealism sometimes.  I don't mean to sound critical because I really do care and it bothers me to think about highly unrealistic expectations getting set.

[Hannah]

Personally speaking, I'll take shallow sex over being beaten.

Wow, that really resonated with me. I'd imagine the point is moot for most, but in my opinion if you can get away with not telling post op then go for it. We aren't talking about an "Oh by the way, I tried weed once" kinda thing, this is on a different level than most disclosures. Really I'd think one's only "obligation" would be to fess up that they can't bear children due to a birth defect. That's just one opinion though.

Shelina, 14 guys, I'm impressed. How are you disease free, or are you? I mean both physical and mental... seriously go talk to someone. I feel tired and used after 2 guys in 8 years, I can only imagine what's going on in that noggin of yours. People who live like that usually have underlying issues, it's not just because they really like boys. Fooling around preop with straight guys is just asking for it, come on. When I start fooling around with a guy my hand is in his crotch in short order and were I to fool around with a girl, ew, I don't imagine that would be any different.

[Miniar]

Oh, "can be" as in "it's possible"?  Sure, there's a finite possibility.

But is it likely?  No.  Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?  Why do you think we hear so many tales of straight guys reacting negatively?  How many straight ->-bleeped-<-s do you think there are?  The vast majority seem to be looking to satisfy decidedly NON heterosexual fantasies.

Mate, I'm not trying to be deliberately disagreeable.  I genuinely think that this community, particularly one focused on support, needs a dose of pragmatic realism to counter-balance the idealism sometimes.  I don't mean to sound critical because I really do care and it bothers me to think about highly unrealistic expectations getting set.

Look.
What I'm saying is really simple.
I understand that a straight man might not want to have sex with a woman who's currently equipped with a penis. I'm saying that you don't have to be gay to find trans-girls sexually attractive, even if they are pre-op.
Finding someone sexually attractive doesn't require you to see them naked.
Finding someone romantically and emotionally attractive doesn't require you to see them naked either.
If you are told, as a woman, that the only way you're going to be found physically, sexually, romantically, and emotionally attractive, is if you go out with a homosexual male (or a bi one at least) is suggesting you're not a woman, or at the very least, that you're not woman enough.

Dating a straight man pre-op will probably mean waiting a while before sex, or some imaginative way of excluding your current plumbing from sexual play.
But it doesn't mean HE is in any way homosexual.

[finewine]

Look.
What I'm saying is really simple.
I understand that a straight man might not want to have sex with a woman who's currently equipped with a penis. I'm saying that you don't have to be gay to find trans-girls sexually attractive, even if they are pre-op.
Finding someone sexually attractive doesn't require you to see them naked.
Finding someone romantically and emotionally attractive doesn't require you to see them naked either.

Sure, a hot looking girl looks very sexy clothed and I'm sure she may have a cracking personality that one could emotionally bond with.  Neither of which are the points I'm asserting, which is that sooner or later he will want to bump uglies and then it will be an issue.  The context I originally replied to was in dating, disclosure and sex.

Ah, forget it...I give up.  Believe what you want, I'm sure the collective experience of the pre-op community will bear your position out. 

[Jeannette]

Well, if you're pre-op, you've got no choice, you've got to tell.  There's no way you can hide a penis no matter how well you tuck.  If you're a post-op, you've got a choice but it's a risky one.  I've met a couple of older women that told their husbands after years of marriage.  They're still together but not every relationship's the same & not everybody's that lucky.  There have been instances when people have ended up being killed too.  Personally, I'd tell but that's just me.  Even though I'm post-operative, my fiance knows because we plan to marry in the future & there has got to be trust & honesty in a relationship before we both say 'I do'.

[Hannah]

there has got to be trust & honesty in a relationship

I've always and still do think it should be up to the individual about disclosing post op, without judgement from those who haven't walked in her shoes or those who have. However that comment made me think, you know, disclosing something like that has got to be on top of the list of ways of finding out if he really loves you.

[Butterfly]

Once all surgery is completed you are no longer TS but the sex you were meant to be. By needing to divulge the past, its the same as admitting you are still the former gender in some respect.

I'm not, never was & never will be a male. and refuse to tell people that I was. and the few moments I might have enjoyed whilst in the body of a male are not enough to validate the life I've had to this point. I was screwed out of girlhood, and years of womanhood.  I see nothing desirable to look back on and say "this was me," because it was not.  If anything, I was born with a birth defect.  I was born female with all the wrong parts.

Does my BF know my past?  He does but that's because we met before I had GRS.  If I were single & looking, I wouldn't say a word to anyone.

[Natasha]

For post-op women;  Revealing your private medical history is a very PERSONAL decision, and no one has the right to tell you "do this or do that".  It's something YOU have to decide for yourself.

yup!  people are right for them.  nobody has the right to make such decisions for me. 

[Shelina]

Once all surgery is completed you are no longer TS but the sex you were meant to be. By needing to divulge the past, its the same as admitting you are still the former gender in some respect.

I'm not, never was & never will be a male. and refuse to tell people that I was. and the few moments I might have enjoyed whilst in the body of a male are not enough to validate the life I've had to this point. I was screwed out of girlhood, and years of womanhood.  I see nothing desirable to look back on and say "this was me," because it was not.  If anything, I was born with a birth defect.  I was born female with all the wrong parts.

Does my BF know my past?  He does but that's because we met before I had GRS.  If I were single & looking, I wouldn't say a word to anyone.

[Autumn]

I'm not particularly fond of being misrepresented. I'm cycling progesterone and spent about 45 minutes typing something very, very bitchy last night but I'm in a much better mood.

Shelina has had horrific experiences with straight men. After 14 of them, obviously she's doing something wrong. That might be in the way she goes about relationships, or who she's choosing to date. I mean no offense, but 14 beatings is probably a record.

My suggestion of dating bi men isn't foolproof. Bi people are NOT pansexual. There's no guarantee that just because someone is bi they'll want a trans person. However, bi people who have some experience can relate to being used sexually (or using sexually, as it may be) and are generally more comfortable with non-binary situations. It may be some sexual fantasy. It may be some chasing. But this is why I said that I'd prefer to have shallow sex and not be beaten.

I'm really offended that my suggestion to try bi guys is construed as being an attack on the female status of MTF, considering I'm on hormones myself and pursuing part time RLE right now. Further, taking the leap of logic that "Date bi men" which implies they're more open minded, obviously, since they like both sexualities to a degree, translates to "you have to be homosexual to date a transwoman" bothers me.

News flash, gay men hate breasts and jiggly girl asses. They don't like the way girls smell and don't like girly things. (This assumes that, since most "straight" MTF are, well, "straight", you'd be dating a masculine gay man, not a queen.) I'm clearly not suggesting a mtf to date gay men. It's just rude as all hell to condemn bi men as closet homosexuals and to put words in my mouth. It's more offensive than your suggestion that I was disparaging MTF, because society is already so cruel to bi men.

Further it feels like there's an allegation that being bi or homosexual is somehow a bad thing and that suggesting such a thing about a man is horrible. That's way too mainstream of thought for this website.

Can we just be realistic adults and admit that 'straight' 'bi' 'gay' are pretty much meaningless labels when dealing with transsexuals' partners? People are going to call you and your boyfriend ->-bleeped-<-gots even post-op if they're closed minded idiots, and the other side of the spectrum will call you straight even if you're pre-HRT and beard removal as long as you identify female.

There's a grey area where we express both sexual characteristics and it's just ridiculous to expect the average person to accept us entirely when you're sporting an A cup that's covered in black hair. Some people can deal with it, other people are just simply not attracted to things. Now later on when one presents more female (or male), things are different.

It's like saying that a transitioned FTM, since genital surgery is off the table for most, can date straight men because they have a vagina. Straight men don't want a big hairy muscular dude even if he has a vagina. Gay men don't want a girl with female sexual characteristics even if she has a (probably non functional) penis.

Relationships are way, way too complex to blanket.


Personally, when I was a boy, I was bothered that the really pretty, girly girls didn't give me the time of day. They'd openly make comments about never dating short men in my presence and it doesn't matter what I would have tried to do, they wouldn't have been interested. I think that's an analogy to "extreme" straight guys who could never accept a transwoman. Why pursue people who are not interested in you? If you have an unrealistic fantasy, change the fantasy.