The chess pieces are moving in the direction to have another war. Troops moving to Afghanistan, high unemployment, oil needed, friends with Russia, trained both side Iraq and Afghan army's, the nuke threat, Israel, etc. Not to mention much activity at the base near me.
>.>
<.<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u8_-tI3gHQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u8_-tI3gHQ#)
So, how well is that real quick action going in Iraq? How's it going in Afghanistan? And you want to invade the regions only real military power outside of Israel? Really? Iran is not a backwards nation. It's not an Arab nation. It's population is well educated, politically united against the US (they have this grudge about us overthrowing their government), they are well armed, fantastically well armed, dug in, prepared, and have a real command and control structure in place.
Worst idea ever. As the Simpson's comic book guy would say.
Quote from: tekla on September 28, 2009, 03:56:12 PM
Worst idea ever. As the Simpson's comic book guy would say.
So of course we're going to do it.
I guess I ought to read some news here. I've been off doing shows for a week now and not keeping up. They always think they can sneak this stuff by me when I'm not paying attention. But I can't believe they are thinking this. Well, OK I know some people have raging hard-ons and are just drooling at the possibility - but we're taking about sane people here. I hope.
The election did not go our way and there seems to be a group waiting to take control. We could tip the scale in their favor.
Not that I condone more war and meddling in another country but the handwriting is on the wall.
Gods I hope not....
It would be incredibly stupid.
I mean.. literally.. incredibly stupid.
The Iranian student Web site Advar News reported that hundreds of university students chanted slogans against Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, including "Death to dictator!" and "Ahmadi, Ahmadi, this is the last message, the green movement is ready for uprising!" Another reformist Web site, Norooz, estimated that about a thousand students took part in the demonstration, according to Reuters.
Earlier this month Frieda Afary, an Iranian-American translator, published a translation of a recent essay by a student at Amir Kabir University in Tehran called "Why Is the Islamic Republic Afraid of the Humanities?" In her introduction to the English version of the essay, Ms. Afary noted that Iran's government has attempted to place much of the blame for the post-election protests on the universities and in particular on the teaching of the humanities:
Oh I agree with earlier sentiments - such a move would be intensely stupid. I hope "they" (the powers that be) don't misconstrue local discontent with tacit support for external intervention...I think some of them made that mistake in Iraq.
Oh not another coalition of the witless.
Some of the USA pollies need to read Diplomacy for Dummies. The copy in cartoon form 'cos I don't think they can read all that well. At least not signs
I feel for the Iranian students and others that wish for them to have the freedoms of democracy. But the U.S. does not like to be at war. We didn't want to be bothered with Iraq or Afghanistan. We also don't like to be attacked or threatened.
Most often we provide aid (food and med.) through out the world. No-one seems to gripe about that :P
Quote from: Virginia Marie on September 29, 2009, 05:08:24 AM
I feel for the Iranian students and others that wish for them to have the freedoms of democracy. But the U.S. does not like to be at war.
How I wish that were true. The U.S. has been one of the most warlike, if not
the most warlike nation in the world for the last 60 years or so.
I'm not sure the Iranian students want 'democracy' in any Western sense of that word, nor do I think that just because they don't like the current government they are our friends necessarily either.
Democracy 101,
It is not democratic to force a governmental change on the people.
Not even if you truly believe you're making it better for them.
That is all.
I don't see the Iranian students as friends or enemies. But rather they are folks who wish for human rights.
Well coverage being what it is, I really don't think that anyone really knows what either side thinks in reality.
As with WWII, we didn't get involved until we were attacked.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on September 29, 2009, 08:58:08 AM
As with WWII, we didn't get involved until we were attacked.
*cough* You mean physical attack or an attack of rhetoric? :) The US has most definitely intervened overtly and covertly ... and not in response to a direct attack. For example, the invasion of Grenada was not a counter attack, just that y'all don't like them damn commies! :)
Vietnam, also was not a counter attack, just that y'all don't like them damn commies either! (Ho Chi Minh was originally expecting the US, as a symbol of freedom and liberty at the time, to
support their desire for liberation from the occupying imperial French). Minh later wrote, in response to a letter (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1967-vietnam-letters1.html) from President Johnson:
Quote from: Ho Chi MinhViet-Nam is situated thousands of miles from the United States. The Vietnamese people have never done any harm to the United States. But, contrary to the commitments made by its representative at the Geneva Conference of 1954, the United States Government has constantly intervened in Viet-Nam, it has launched and intensified the war of aggression in South Viet-Nam for the purpose of prolonging the division of Viet-Nam and of transforming South Viet-Nam into an American neo-colony and an American military base. For more than two years now, the American Government, with its military aviation and its navy, has been waging war against the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, an independent and sovereign country.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on September 29, 2009, 08:58:08 AM
As with WWII, we didn't get involved until we were attacked.
Even World War II wasn't so black and white as all that. We were intervening militarily in China against the Japanese, and stepping up the rhetoric and economic warfare against Imperial Japan. They knew we were going after them, and being reasonably intelligent, they made the first overt strike.
EDIT: They wanted to cripple our Pacific naval capability
because they feared an attack from us. I don't think their leadership understood how galvanizing Pearl Harbor would be for the American public, though.
It is a mistake to help anyone who asks us for help. Time and money is better spent on our own people
Quote from: Virginia Marie on September 29, 2009, 09:24:47 AM
It is a mistake to help anyone who asks us for help. Time and money is better spent on our own people
I think that's been true for all or almost all of the situations the U.S. has been in, but I don't accept it categorically.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on September 29, 2009, 09:24:47 AM
It is a mistake to help anyone who asks us for help.
I would add "until we're done helping our own" to that actually.
Kinda like you can't take care of someone else if you can't take care of yourself sort of a thing.
Once you've taken care of yourself however, and are free of all problems, it would seem a little selfish not to lend a hand to the next person, provided that won't drag you back down ofcourse.
It seems to me that the US is ill equipped to handle any international crisis partly because we are incredibly unwilling to really understand the societies involved. We go storming in with the attitude that the whole world wants to be democratic,christian and a consumer society. We ignore the fact that unlike us, the other nations of the world have been going for centuries and actually have a culture. It is ignorant, shameful and stupid behavior.
Maggie
It's what we get for telling ourselves for a century that we're the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The only place I want to invade is a night club with a dance floor with a group of folks from Susan's :eusa_clap: :eusa_dance: :laugh: :icon_bumdance-nerd: :icon_dance: :icon_geekdance: :icon_booty-nerd: :icon_pelvic_thrust2: :icon_pelvic_thrust: :icon_drunk: :icon_chick: :icon_razz:
If they have karaoke that would be even more fun :laugh:
I see no possible benefit to invading Iran. I'm sure the government wants its resources or something (yay Middle-Eastern oil supplies...) but that is no excuse for the invasion of a country. At any rate, our military supplies are already stretched covering the stupid mess we made of Afghanistan and Iraq without a proper recovery plan.
I don't agree necessarily with the 'do not invade anywhere' thing... while I think that great caution and deliberation should be exercised when deciding whether to invade anywhere, there are some places that could genuinely benefit from outside help, like Zimbabwe. The main thing wrong with that country is Mugabe's government. My grandmother (and my mother, when she was a child) lived in nearby Botswana before Mugabe came to power, and apparently Zimbabwe was a lovely place that was doing well for itself (ie. best economy, education system etc. in Africa). Now its residents are suffering and dying, inflation in 2007 was at 8000%, 80% unemployment... violent opression of the advocates of opposing political parties... There's only so much food aid can do. In their case, it is the infrastructure that needs fixing so they can provide food for themselves! :(
I have a feeling we are going to be bombing tactical sites in Iran. That will likely start a war. I read somewhere that a contract for deep penetration type weapons has been fast tracked.
I am not sure. In case McCain would be a president it would be likely. War in Iran would absolutely need reinstitution of the draft for your country and the president and democrats in congress are are at least skeptical.
QuoteI see no possible benefit to invading Iran
You are correct. In fact many of the people in Iran want our type of lifestyle. It is the iron fisted leadership that is a problem. The best thing we can do is let that country work out its own problems without our interference. They are the key to peace in the region.
I dont think the Americans will invade Iran. They may bomb it or the nuclear installations.
But more likely is that Israelis will do the job. They have most to loose if the Iranians get Nuclear weapons. Actually it should be when they get weapons.
Do I think the Iranians will use these weapons. No, but I do think they will supply nuclear waste to the terrorists at some point giving them access to dirty bombs.
Quote from: lisagurl on September 28, 2009, 03:16:43 PM
The chess pieces are moving in the direction to have another war. Troops moving to Afghanistan, high unemployment, oil needed, friends with Russia, trained both side Iraq and Afghan army's, the nuke threat, Israel, etc. Not to mention much activity at the base near me.
The georgian conflict with the russians is interesting considering the closeness to Iran. I wouldn't think the russians would aid us in such an invasion, so there could be some intention of at least trafficing weaponry...IDK
But Anyways, I sorta doubt that we are going to invade Iran, it is more likely that we will manipulate them which america is quite capable of i would think. Ultimatly we will likely be more inclined to aid them with the intention of preventing the distribution of nuclear weaponry and what not...
I think we may have missed something in the first post with a reference to "Green". In Islamic countries like Iran, the colour green has a direct connection to religion.
There are almost certainly internal Iranian agendas being followed which are not getting any exposure in our media.
As for Iran's armed forces, if it comes to a conventional conflict they would be hopelessly outclassed in the same way that Iraq was.
Against Iraq they refought WW1 with modern weapons.
Perhaps we sould be more worried that Ahmedinijad will seek to distract his people from the failings of his regime by a foreign adventure.
I knew this would happen all along. War is profitable so no one is going to cut off that source of income.
Gennee
Osama bin Laden sons are being protected in Iran and some think he might be there also. Just another coffin nail.
god i hope they dont but if its to be it will be.. i will of course vote against anyone who supports this war if it comes to pass. i just dont think our troops need to be involved in anymore foreign conflicts at this point in time if iran somehow becomes a credible threat to the U.S then maybe and by credible i mean legitamately credible as in the will, the means, and the technology necessary to carry out the attack then maybe. other wise do we really need to kill anymore people. in war inocense dies both the young and the young at heart. Nothing speaks louder to the cruelty of the world then bombs and gunfire. i am former military i have seen the abstract shocked look of horror on a childs face confronted with this cruelty
jessica
We won't invade unless and until the economy tanks. That is to say that the recovery fails and Americans begin to react. Civil unrest and the like. Historically, this is when leaders magically trump up wars to distract the population and stay in power. Look for martial law at the same time.
Maggie
this is what war means to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8jw-ifqwkM#noexternalembed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8jw-ifqwkM#noexternalembed)
Post Merge: December 25, 2009, 07:40:37 AM
look carefully you might see a young me in one of these clips war kills hopes and dreams as well as people
jessica
Quotewar kills hopes and dreams as well as people
jessica
War also cleans house and rejuvenates. It can and does create hope in some.
But in a reality of logic perhaps Iran will self destruct as the strife in house will defeat itself. I think the bomb talk is just to scare their foes just as Saddam used it.
Yeah, except we knew that Saddam didn't have it (because just about everything he did have was sold to him by the West) and we know that Iran is more than capable of it.
Though I don't think that anyone in power right now is thinking one big huge war against a real military force, in an area that could really reek worldwide economic havoc, is in our best interests.
Actually Tekla that is a bit of an urban myth. The Iraqi forces equipment was almost all USSR. Our SAS found a large number of Migs hidden in the deserts in western Iraq for instance.
The only assistance that the US, as distinct from France etc, gave to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war was a limited amount of Intelligence such as satellite photo's.
Oh the Germans sold to him, we sold him intelligence and poison gas and training, had Rummy deliver it. Back when Iran and Iraq was fighting each other it was like the LAPD and a Crip/Blood war, so long as they kill each other, it's all good. Fact is, most of our allies, including most of the military industries who do business with us, will sell to whoever they can, where ever they can.
Quote from: tekla on September 28, 2009, 03:56:12 PM
So, how well is that real quick action going in Iraq? How's it going in Afghanistan? And you want to invade the regions only real military power outside of Israel? Really? Iran is not a backwards nation. It's not an Arab nation. It's population is well educated, politically united against the US (they have this grudge about us overthrowing their government), they are well armed, fantastically well armed, dug in, prepared, and have a real command and control structure in place.
Actually most Iranians don't have problems with the US. They are pretty interested in our culture as well. It's a shame our two governments can't work it out, because I think both countries could be really strong allies again.
Anyways, getting in another avoidable war would be dumb. We already have two too many. I think the Iranian people are going to revolt against their current government anyways without our help. Best stay out of it.
Keep a close eye on facebook etc when the Iranian Govt start censoring the internet, there will be more information there than will ever appear in the media, due to the almost total lack of foreign press in the country.
The way things are going it sounds like once again a bunch of old bigots will try and stamp on the people.
Hopefully there won't be large loss of life, but I think the regime would rather see their country and people destroyed, than change. They belive they are God's instrument on Earth after all.
They belive they are God's instrument on Earth after all.
Seems to be a problem on both sides.
Quote from: lisagurl on December 23, 2009, 07:25:00 PM
Osama bin Laden sons are being protected in Iran and some think he might be there also. Just another coffin nail.
I douth it, thats the last place Osama bin Laden is in, he's ether hiding in Pakistan or Afganisthan, Iran are different Muslims, Shia Muslims, US interests would lead us to believe he's in Iran to provide an excuse to invade Iran, Bin Laden is a ''sinni muslim'' usually found in Saudi Arabia, infact thats where he comes from, certainly not Iraq, but that was the excuse for going to war there, bit me once shame on you, bit me twice shame on me! very true saying.
p
Quote from: pretty pauline on January 10, 2010, 01:40:21 PM
Osama bin Laden is in, he's ether hiding in Pakistan or Afganisthan,
p
Its very ironic, very rarely I quote myself from a post over a year old, but last night Mark (my Husband) says to me, ''gosh darling you where you right, osama bin laden was in Pakistan after all, you smart sweetie'' well it wasn't rocket science, but men can be sooo patronizing and condescending lol, I do take an interest in politics, current and world affairs, but sometimes I think Mark underestinates me in general knowledge, he thinks I only think about fashion magazines, nail polish, hair spray and makeup, yes important things for a woman, but not everything, I do have a brain that works under my hair spray and highlights, sorry for venting and going off topic.
Pauline
Quote from: lisagurl on September 28, 2009, 03:16:43 PM
The chess pieces are moving in the direction to have another war. Troops moving to Afghanistan, high unemployment, oil needed, friends with Russia, trained both side Iraq and Afghan army's, the nuke threat, Israel, etc. Not to mention much activity at the base near me.
I tought we were about to invade Iran (Poste 2009), what happened?
Jen61 :D
Nothing happened, it was never going to. The US and NATO are tied down in an interminable war of attrition in Afghanistan, Iraq is in a terrible mess, Pakistan is getting more and more involved and more.
Apart from anything else Iran is a vast country, is well armed, has advanced technology and above all is Shia Muslim. For Shia's the martyrdom of Imam Husayn at the battle of Karbala is central to their faith and mindset. The saying goes "Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala", Ashura is the day of mourning of the martyrdom of Imam Husayn. Any invasion would be a bloodbath for all concerned with worldwide fallout. No one in their right mind wants any of that.
the day of mourning of the martyrdom of Imam Husayn
The US has always been happy to fulfill the wishes of martyrs. And Iran has still got US forces on 3 sides. Status quo anti. I'm sure we'd much rather see it done internally and Iran has a lot of social unrest, in the meantime no one is going anywhere.
See what done internally, another US backed coup to install a fascist regime as back in Mossadegh's day?
Those days are long over.
They'll get a McDonald's franchise then they are finished.
Iran would be dumb. Personally I think the Arab states will stand back and let Israel deal with them, hwhile yelling appropriate abuse.
Pakistan is the real problem, they get upset because of American action in the NW Frontier because it is Pakistani territory, then in the next breath excuse inaction against the Taliban and Al=Quaida because they have no control of the area. They can't have it both ways. Either it is Pakistan and should be peaceful or it's not.
All the while taking American aid with one hand and aiding groups like Laksh I-Toiba with the other.
Having already built a sizeable nuclear arsenal as a deterrent against India, a democracy, they have also exported their knowledge to Iran, and North Korea who certainly have benefited and are a real threat to world peace.
Hopefully the Australian troops in Afghanistan can train at least part of the Afghan Army to adopt their methods and go after the Taliban properly. Regardless of where they may be hiding.
Karen.
get a McDonald's franchise
Well that is our favorite method of conquest. And no amount of atomic, biological or chemical weapons can do the damage to a culture that American media can. It's an acid bath.
Each of them - American corporate business practices and American style media - are like the blades of a scissors. Alone they can cut given enough effort, but together, sheering both ways with a fulcrum point, that stuff can cut anything to shreds. Given enough exposure we've seen time and time again, how in a single generation Kim Kardarshian (or whoever) can dominate over Allah, and how people will give up trying to find answers in antiquated texts, because Oprah got better information anyway.
Quote from: justmeinoz on September 13, 2011, 05:32:31 AM
Iran would be dumb. Personally I think the Arab states will stand back and let Israel deal with them, hwhile yelling appropriate abuse.
Pakistan is the real problem, they get upset because of American action in the NW Frontier because it is Pakistani territory, then in the next breath excuse inaction against the Taliban and Al=Quaida because they have no control of the area. They can't have it both ways. Either it is Pakistan and should be peaceful or it's not.
All the while taking American aid with one hand and aiding groups like Laksh I-Toiba with the other.
Having already built a sizeable nuclear arsenal as a deterrent against India, a democracy, they have also exported their knowledge to Iran, and North Korea who certainly have benefited and are a real threat to world peace.
Hopefully the Australian troops in Afghanistan can train at least part of the Afghan Army to adopt their methods and go after the Taliban properly. Regardless of where they may be hiding.
Karen.
Karen.
Last time I checked Pakistan was a democracy as well! So is Iran even though some may not agree with the way Iranians vote.
The Taliban will be back, it's inevitable and there's nothing the Afghan Army can or will do about it. Sometimes people do not want to live the same way as we do and who are we to say they do not have the right to do so. Personally I think Afghanistan and Pakistan (big cities aside) are well ->-bleeped-<-*d up places and women are treated appallingly but it's NOT my business and certainly not a reason to go bomb the sh*t out of them.
Not sure if I would say Iran is a democracy. Well, they can call themselves that, but they're not a functional democracy.
but they're not a functional democracy
Unlike, say...US? That's funny.
Unlike, say...US? That's funny.
Heh heh yeah :laugh: Thanks for tickling my funny bone
At the height of the Soviet Union, who made fixed/rigged elections an art form, they did not return the number of incumbents to office that we do now. And more people vote for American Idol than the American President.
The main problem seems to be that Pakistan wants to have it's cake and eat it too. Take American aid, and give covert aid or at least condone extremists; and claim that the NW Frontier is part of Pakistan, but that they can't control it. Sooner or later they will have to make some hard choices.
Karen.
Quote from: tekla on September 13, 2011, 08:31:18 PM
And more people vote for American Idol than the American President.
And that is one of the saddest thoughts. I would bet more people in the USA , and definitely around the world, know who won American Idol than who the Vice President is: who is ....?
I'm in the minority, I have no idea who won American Idol.
Quote from: tekla on September 13, 2011, 08:06:51 PM
but they're not a functional democracy
Unlike, say...US? That's funny.
When there is a Department of Vice and Virtue in America that goes around beating people for frivolous "moral" offenses (like, say, homosexuality) during the day and spend the nights taking baseball bats to devices citizens use to communicate with the outside world, you can make a comments of moral equivalence.
Quote from: tekla on September 13, 2011, 08:31:18 PM
And more people vote for American Idol than the American President.
Sometimes I think that is a sad statistic...but then I see interviews of people on the street lining up for money from "Obama's stash," people who cannot differentiate Australia from North Korea on a map, or people that do not know what we are supposed to be celebrating on Independence Day, and I can't help but think that TOO MANY people take part in elections that should really just stay home and watch American Idol.
you can make a comments of moral equivalence
I wasn't making a claim of moral equivalence, I was making a claim of political relativism, if not political reality.
And that is one of the saddest thoughts.
Perhaps, I mean it's the standard way to view that fact. But the other way to view it is that all those people who don't vote, don't do so because they are fine with things as they are. In part it's The Who singing "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" and in an other way it's a whole lot like Al Stewart singing, "oh the more it changes, the more it stays the same, and the hand just rearranges the players in the game."
We've got people in this country, on this site even, who think Obama is some sort of Left Wing, Commie, Socialist, Fascist (and don't try to tell them that you can't be all those things, that's way over their head) who is doing nothing, but simultaneously doing so much he's destroying the country. While the reality is that Obama is going to go down in history (at least so far) as the best Republican President since Ike. The Dem's moved to the right and became Eisenhower Pubs back in the 90s, while the Pubs moved into the insane asylum. Currently the Republican Primary resembles a slap fight in a House of Tards (when people routinely use a phrase like "Bat->-bleeped-<- Crazy" to describe your people, you're in trouble) and it's highly unlikely that any of them are going to be in a position to win against Obama who can employ both a Rose Garden Strategy (highly successful) and the almost BILLION dollars he has in his campaign fund to pretty much obliterate them come a year from November.
The totally weird way we elect the President (who is not elected by popular vote, but by a system that I swear those guys thought up on an acid trip - and they were tripping balls at that) means that our one 'national' election (and the President is the only office in the US that is based on a national vote) is in fact a very, very, very small, and scattered, regional election. Most of the places in the US are not subject to 'the campaign' at all. If you live in SF or NYC you'll never see a candidate (unless they are trolling for money) and barely - if ever - see an ad. Because there is no way that SF or NYC is going to go red (vote Republican), and no way that some places in the Old South are going to go blue no matter who is running, so there is no need to waste time/resources there. So it's really fought out in Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and a few others the poll people tell them are 'up for grabs.' If you are unlucky enough to live in those places the advertising will be saturation wall-to-wall.
The only thing that could really change that is if the Republicans stop drinking the Kool-Aid long enough to realize that they consistently alienate the one group that could help them win, and that's the Hispanic vote. Because, as it turns out in reality, the average Hispanic American has traditional family values on an everyday basis that are far more traditional than the "Traditional Family Values" advocates have. But the R's have a basic core of racism (like the Pacific Ocean has a basic core of 'wetness') and it blinds them from seeing that. So they go on doing things like they are now, having a huge Deerp Fest over building a wall on the Southern border, (while claiming to worship Reagan for saying 'tear down that wall') and English as a National Language*, and there is not a single Hispanic person who does not see all that talk about a wall as "No Mexicans Need Apply." And they stay away from the Republicans in droves.
Hell, it's highly likely that one of those nut-bars (Palin, Bachmann, Paul) will go off the reservation and run as a third party, in which case Obama would not need to campaign at all.
* - I once had someone who was red in the face screaming at me that English should be the only language allowed in California. So I asked him, "Then what are we going to call California then?" I thought he was going to explode. Still, I think its a valid question to ask someone who is living in Los Angeles don't you think?
This is not my meant to be rude or offensive but I really don't understand where things are going with the US.
9/11 was an abomination without a shadow of doubt but why go and invade countries, kill probably a million people including many women and children and perpetuate the the horrendous situation in Palestine by unilaterally vetoing justice at the UN?
I'll be open here, I'm Muslim and you're welcome to condemn, despise or hate me for that if you so wish. What's causing all this insanity isn't Islam, it isn't Arabs or Pakistanis or anyone else. All this Islamophobic rhetoric and nonsense is beginning to sound like 1930's Germany and we know what that led to.
I have here in front of me right now a hadith (reported saying of the Prophet) very much pertinent to my last sentence. It reads as follows:
Abd' Allah bin Amar bin al-Aas reported Allah's Messenger Muhammad (pbuh), as saying:
"My people (Ummah) will undergo and experience all those conditions which were suffered by the Children of Israel in a manner of resemblance in which a shoe of a pair resembles the other shoe."
There's a warning to us there, just today I read the brain addled rantings of some 'armageddon' fool right here on this very forum about nuclear attacks, flattening the holy sites and then all the oil will be ours. Please tell us what are we to think when we read such s**t on a what is a Transgender site (Susan's own definition, scroll to top of page) of all places. Has the world gone mad?
Peace to all, may God have mercy on us and guide us to a saner world.
Brain addled ranting fool here! Isn't that a personal attack?
Yes, and frankly after what you wrote it is the least you can expect. This site is no place for promoting hate.
Go right ahead and report it, you're more than welcome to do so.
9/11 was an abomination without a shadow of doubt but why go and invade countries, kill probably a million people including many women and children
No, 9-11 was a pretext, it gave us the reason to do something that sooner or later we were going to do anyway. Why? They are sitting on the oil that's why. Oil is finite. We use it ever faster and at ever higher levels. And since it's made from the bones of dinosaurs (amoung other things) it's not very likely there is going to be any more made soon. And industrial nations need oil like a junkie needs junk, and will pretty much act the same way about it.
Check out this group, paying careful attention to all the members listed at the end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_a_New_American_Century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_a_New_American_Century)
Then read the report here:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf)
We were in grave danger before 9-11, grave, grave danger. Peace almost broke out.
Come on Mimpi, everybody is entitled to an opinion. I do not think that Tracey deserved the insult.
I find this thread fascinating exactly for the variety of opinons. I think the problem is not with the USA, reps, or demos, but it is a global problem. It is the "growing pains" of a band of anthropids whose technical leaps were not paralled by concomitant itsasociological advances.
It is only when we will be running out water, food, and energy -about 2040-2060 that the humans of earth will change. If not we will perish.
Jen61
No insults are intended Mimpi, I think virtually everyone agrees that Osama Bin Laden was about as Islamic as a ham sandwich and a bottle of beer.
Where a lot of people have a problem is scenes of people dancing in the streets of cities in the Middle East, on hearing the news of 9/11, and saying their argument is with the US Govt, not the people.
When the TV news shows large anti-Al Qaida demonstrations on the streets of the M.E. , then people will accept that there is no double standard being displayed.
The odd statement handed out by a moderate cleric won't do it.
Karen.
I think virtually everyone agrees that Osama Bin Laden was about as Islamic as a ham sandwich and a bottle of beer
Oh no you don't. He's as much a part of Islam as Falwell, Baker, the "god hates ->-bleeped-<-s" church, and Jimmy Swaggart, and the Inquisition, and the witch hunts, and the Crusades were all very much a part of Christianity. You let the responsible parties off the hook, and you shouldn't. Islam should have taken care of him themselves - just like all the 'good Christians' need to get up, stand up against all the hate their brethren are spouting. Had Islam done so they might not be under military occupation or staring down the barrel of a gun.
There is a saying in the US (well among some people) to the effect that the 99% of cops who are on the take and/or brutal psychopaths with ego problems give the rest a bad name.
*Fastens seat belt*
Hey people lets be respectful to each other.
Cindy
It's already a rough ride. We've spent $1.29 trillion on the two wars, then there is the human cost.
- Troops in Iraq - Total 44,000 U.S. troops as of June 30, 2011. All other nations have withdrawn their troops.
- U.S. Troop Casualties - 4,477 US troops; 98% male. 91% non-officers; 82% active duty, 11% National Guard; 74% Caucasian, 9% African-American, 11% Latino. 19% killed by non-hostile causes. 54% of US casualties were under 25 years old. 72% were from the US Army
- Non-U.S. Troop Casualties - Total 316, with 179 from the UK
- US Troops Wounded - 32,175 as of June 30, 2011, 20% of which are serious brain or spinal injuries. (Total excludes psychological injuries.)
-US Troops with Serious Mental Health Problems - 30% of US troops develop serious mental health problems within 3 to 4 months of returning home
Civilian deaths in Iraq from violence since we showed up, between 102, 417 to 111,928 depending on who's numbers you want to take. About 2,412 or so civilian deaths in Afghanistan, often from 'friendly fire' or poorly targeted weapons.
But hey, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs right?
And no USA politician with a war wound.
What a terrible waste of life and what a terrible misery for those wounded. I look after a brain injured partner, and it affects everyone in her family. The human tragedy is incalculable.
Cindy
I think that about does it... and with that I'm off to bed.