Some friends of mine and I (all of whom have chosen not to undergo full time living) were discussing GID and came up with an interesting parable. GID is like a screaming baby. It screams and screams and desperately desires attention. When we give it attention, it tends to calm down - that is until we leave it again. When we give it no attention the crying just gets more intense.
Using this example, it seems to me that giving the baby too much attention will make it rule your life as you bend over backwards to its ever whim. Giving the baby no attention would be neglectful. However, it seems the happy medium is to give the baby attention, but do so in controlled ways - showing you run things, not the baby.
If this example holds at all for how GID really operates in our minds, it seems to me that if one were to allow controlled expression of the opposite sex, then it might work to decrease the intensity of the attacks.
For the most part I've been nervous about giving ANY expression at all on the level my GID requires it due to the fact that I've always been afraid that giving into it at all, like a recovering alcoholic taking a drink, would send me on a spiral back toward desperately wanting it.
The friends I've talked to say limited expression works for them without it taking over. Some cross dress occasionally, etc. The problem is, cross dressing does not feel like expression to me. For my GID to be slaked I need to be PERCEIVED as female - not just dress like one. It leaves me in a tough bind. This is why going to gender support meetings was never enough back before my transition - there I was interacted with on the level of a transsexual - and while that is fine for me now and much more honest than being interacted with as a male, it isn't what gives my "supposed inner self" proper expression.
So my question goes, for those who are not undergoing full time living, do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?
The only reason I seriously considered fully transitioning was because living a dual life was too difficult emotionally. Wanting to be perceived as female and then later doing the guy thing was like being married to two people living in the same neighborhood. You have to make sure you get everything right.
It was a juggling act I'm glad to be rid of.
With your baby analogy the difference is the baby eventually grows up so you know there will be an end to all the time and effort it takes to care for a baby. I wonder how many people would want a baby if they knew it would never grow up?
Like usual, the way you talk and/or express your feelings its like you are trying to find a excuse and with that you tend to ignore certain things.
I that analogy I noticed something. When you are giving the attention to that baby, wont then the baby smile and feel happy and therefore you too?
Even using you analogy of the baby, by paying attention to the baby and the baby bonds with you. A baby does require attention, but that makes it a happy and health individual.
By ignoring the baby it become lonely and miserably. Even suicidal. GID is part and parcel of who we are. If you can cope that is great, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I heard a song that I would like to pass along to you , Dear Interalia. Please listen to it. It helped me a long time ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTQfERb9HVk#noexternalembed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTQfERb9HVk#noexternalembed)
Blessed Be
Hugs and Love
Janet
I don't find dressing to relieve my disconnect, if anything it heightens it. I don't care about wearing female clothing. What bothers me, gets under my skin, is being perceived and/or treated as male. So I suppose the answer for me is either, to keep going as I am, which I've somehow managed for 16 years, or if it gets unbearable, to transition again. Frankly, the whole thing is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
Z
Currently I am Fem 75 percent of the time. The only places I am not fem are at work or on the golf course. Juggling is too hard and the more time I spend in my chosen gender, the greater the desire to fully transition.
I am currently on HRT but do not foresee surgery but I know that a year or so down the line when my body is more feminine my feelings may be different.
It is a personal thing and others may be able to handle both roles. Whether or not surgery beckons, I want to be seen and accepted as female 100% of the time. It is after all the true me.
Quote from: Zelane on November 30, 2009, 01:28:28 PM
Like usual, the way you talk and/or express your feelings its like you are trying to find a excuse and with that you tend to ignore certain things.
I've heard you say such things in the past, but you I don't believe you'd offered any insight. I'm very interested in what certain things I'm ignoring. I believe myself to be incredibly open and honest with my feelings - so much so that I give those who are against my ideas plenty of ammo against me.
Please, be as honest and direct with me as possible, and if you feel your words are too blunt for this forum, I'd welcome a personal message.
Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 11:06:01 PM
Quote from: Zythyra on November 30, 2009, 02:26:00 PM
I don't find dressing to relieve my disconnect, if anything it heightens it. I don't care about wearing female clothing. What bothers me, gets under my skin, is being perceived and/or treated as male. So I suppose the answer for me is either, to keep going as I am, which I've somehow managed for 16 years, or if it gets unbearable, to transition again. Frankly, the whole thing is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
Z
It is nice to know I'm not alone in this. Dressing/doing girly things/etc does not necessarily relieve my GID. I know what triggers set it off though. But as for relief, I feel I need to be perceived as female. I remember, back when transitioning, being overly frustrated with my parents one day. I was living FT, but my parents continued to call me he and refer to me as their son. I remember finally breaking down with my mom. She asked me what was wrong and I said - I want to be a girl. She said, but you are a girl now honey. I said, I know, but I want YOU to see me as a girl. I think she finally got it. It articulates the problems I have today. People know I am TS, fine and well, and I'm still perceived as male - as is expected. But when my GID starts kicking my butt all I want is to be perceived as female, and no amount of "understanding" what I'm going through as a MTF is going to fix that by others, I need them to SEE me as one - or at least stop seeing me as male. The best thing I've been able to do to get around those feelings are to escape them in some way.
I started this thread because I don't want to escape them. I know that its not a good long term fix, so I'm wondering if somehow offering some expression, or rather, giving myself the opportunity to be perceived as female would help me in those times. "Give the baby some attention" according to my analogy. I'm still a bit worried it won't do anything but worsen the GID if I do that though.
Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 11:10:01 PM
Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 30, 2009, 02:05:54 PM
Even using you analogy of the baby, by paying attention to the baby and the baby bonds with you. A baby does require attention, but that makes it a happy and health individual.
By ignoring the baby it become lonely and miserably. Even suicidal. GID is part and parcel of who we are. If you can cope that is great, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I heard a song that I would like to pass along to you , Dear Interalia. Please listen to it. It helped me a long time ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTQfERb9HVk#noexternalembed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTQfERb9HVk#noexternalembed)
Blessed Be
Hugs and Love
Janet
That is awesome! This song became popular while I was living FT. My TS friend who is my age (who is now post op, married with kids) took this song as her anthem. When it came on, she would turn up the radio and close her eyes and sing it. I love the song and thing it is fantastic. We were both so young back then, both unaware of the futures that lay before us. Just two young girls, living in stealth, doing our best to make it day to day between paying the bills, going to college, managing a social life as a girl, and of course paying for our transitions. We went through all sorts of hell together, but it was worth it. Even though we took divergent paths, she remains one of my best friends ever! Thanks for sharing the song and reminding me of that time.
What's up interalia. Long time no talk...sorry about that. I've been hella busy...actually I should be doing work, not typing this post. =D But this is a good topic for me to think through with you.
As you know I'm in a pretty similar boat - trying to find coping mechanisms without actually transitioning. Like you, I loathe being put in the box of my bio-gender. I forget that I am female much of the time, and being forced to do something overtly feminine provokes GID terribly.
Quotedo you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?
GID is DEFINITELY less intense with limited expression. And being a tomboy is acceptable in our culture. (I know, FTMs have some unfair privileges.) I think most people are too polite to ask why I never dress like a girl. :) Other than clothing, basically I just pursue my natural interests and intentionally avoid situations that would require me to play some sort of female role. It has also been extremely helpful to have friends who know about my issues. I am so thankful for genuine guy friends who no doubt see a female and use female pronouns (which is my policy so people don't start slipping up when other people are around) but otherwise treat me like they would probably treat any other guy friend. It is so great to be able to be myself around them. Like you, I sometimes fear that "feeding the beast" will just make it grow, but for now I seem to have struck a pretty good balance and I am okay with not transitioning. (Though of course, like every other transsexual, I'd like to transition in order to rid myself of GID.) If I can be okay with my life and also socially acceptable to pretty much everyone around me (many of whom are conservative Christians), I think that's a win.
QuotePeople know I am TS, fine and well, and I'm still perceived as male - as is expected. But when my GID starts kicking my butt all I want is to be perceived as female, and no amount of "understanding" what I'm going through as a MTF is going to fix that by others, I need them to SEE me as one - or at least stop seeing me as male. The best thing I've been able to do to get around those feelings are to escape them in some way.
Hmm. Well, currently the majority of the people I spend significant amounts of time with know that I am a transsexual. I think some of my friends HAVE stopped seeing me as female. Though I'm not sure. I think, perhaps as a survival mechanism, I just assume that they have, and that lessens the dysphoria. I think GID is the worst when I am around a girl that I'm attracted to. That is when I can say, with you, that no amount of "understanding" will do the trick and I need her to SEE me as male. But fortunately I'm not attracted to every girl that walks down the street. Right now I either completely avoid the few that turn my head or try to limit my interaction with them somehow.
I guess I'll throw in one more thing, since I know you are a Christian. (I am not LDS, but have known people in the LDS church and they say they are Christians.) Believing that we were created first and foremost for a relationship with God, it has been wonderful for me to worship and spend time with God: with God there is no "glass ceiling", as there is in so many other areas of my life. With God I can totally be myself. He knows me better than I know myself. Worshiping God has been, by far, the best coping mechanism. When I am feeling low (and I was going through some tough times today), it is great to be able to draw near to God and realize that He is "more than enough for me" (in the words of the Christian artist Chris Tomlin). It also helps to remember that life is short in light of an eternity spent with God and GID won't be an issue in heaven.
"
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us." - Romans 8:18
cheers,
Joseph
I really miss you, Joseph, and I'm glad you decided to stop by my post (at the cost of work at that!).
Your words are encouraging and highlight a central difference between your ability to cope and mine.
You mention that you believe (even if it is only for self preservation) that your friends treat you as male and even see you that way. See, this is the difference. My friends see me as a feminine male, and call me a girl only when jesting, but never do they actually mean it. They see me as male, period - a male TS, but male all the way. I think if my friends saw me as a girl (even if presenting otherwise) it would do wonders with regard to that "limited expression" thing I was talking about, but as it stands, they do not. If I had to ask them to, it would feel so inauthentic. I think though they would if I asked - I mean they interact with me as male because I asked them to a long time ago (though they might have on their own). Back when I transitioned, they had no problem calling me by female pronouns.
See, back when I was transitioning, even while presenting as male, everyone "knew" I was really a girl based on the fact that I was transitioning anyhow, so they interacted with me accordingly. One of my best friends even changed his nickname for me to a female one (he still calls me it to this day, but unfortunately he lives far away now). I think it would be cool to get back that understanding. I think I've been trying to be male so hard, people thought largely that this GID thing might be over. when I told them it has resurfaced (or more precisely, never left) they didn't know really how to respond. Perhaps I'll talk to them, tell them what I am hoping for and see what happens. I guess I'm just hoping to be "treated like one of the girls" rather than the awkward "gay friend" who happens to be married and claims transsexuality.
As to your religious statements, I am Christian, yes. Worship does help, yes, but sometimes some of the weird gender related stuff in my religion (and I don't really want to hit on that now) can cause me some derision. When I'm at my worst with my GID and go to church, it often just aggravates it more - so I find myself worshiping solo in those times. ;)
Oh, and don't be a stranger - I really do miss you. :D
Quote from: interalia on November 30, 2009, 12:35:02 PM
So my question goes, for those who are not undergoing full time living, do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?
i am not living full time but i can see where your at My gid has been going on so long it never really leaves anymore (im 42) and when its not as intense its still 10 times worse then when i was in my twenties i controled it then by violent behavior and hyper male activities to me GID is insidious in nature if you dont feed it at all it manifests in other ways like depression suicide burnt up relations, if you do feed it it sucks you in demanding more and more like the demon im sure spawned it would if he were there cracking a whip
Post Merge: December 01, 2009, 02:47:58 AM
so wheres that leave me now i would love to be precieved as female and sometimes i am from a distance or by a passing car that slows for a second look before clocking me. i take this little things and it makes me smile and i go on living i am making progress slowly with my biggest drawback being my family. until i can rationalize what i will do with them i am content with little things like HRT doing my hair, my nails etc. it keeps it (GID) in check eventually i think i will have no choice but for now i still do. A lot of us have said that being acepted is one of their biggest fears im past the point of caring i can down play my female nature even after srs to get a job to survive ive been playing rolls my entire life this would not be an issue at all my biggest fear is can i wake up in the morning see the female i am and be happy. the entire worlds gold is worthless to someone who would rather be dead then be himself/herself.
jessica
Quote from: interalia on November 30, 2009, 12:35:02 PM
So my question goes, for those who are not undergoing full time living, do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?
I was discussing virtually the same baby analogy in a pm the other day... and I would include the idea that there is relief when the "baby" sleeps, but then it usually demands immediate attention when it wakes...!
If I didn't give my GID some expression then I would not be able to cope with the stress it creates. However, any temporary expression is just a "pacifier" that makes things bearable, and it does not relieve the core problem. The "baby" may react when a "pacifier" is removed, or may just get bored and demand more.
Also I find that giving more does not necessarily get more relief, and leads the "baby" to become greedy and demand more for satisfaction.
Like you I don't get much relief from just "articles" of clothing and need to feel "complete", but as I am not "out" and my personal time is limited, I also resort to enjoying a little female sex with the techniques I have learned, where I can feel 100% female for a time.
Other than that the regular "pacifiers" are supermarket herbs, a facial hair control cream, hair-maintenance, and personal care.
I'm not sure how long this will all work, and I am resigned to the possibility that I may loose the fight at any time.
Chrissty
I migrated toward the TS side this past June. I live part of the time as a woman. I'm comfortable where I am now. I don't want to transition or take hormones because I don't have the need to do this. I do support those who have or are transitioning. My main concern for people who transition is that they are sure that they want to do this.
Gennee
It really is about balance, but that balance is unique for each individual and there is no one size fits all. The HBS crowd and similar entities would have us and the world believe that the only real MTF TS is one who completes transition regardless of the individual's actual need. Ultimately what is the real goal of all this? To become the opposite sex or to relieve our GID symptoms? I think we get that confused. Sometimes those two answers are one in the same and when they are, go for it. However I suspect the majority of us don't need to go that far to help us with the initial dilemma, relief from the pain.
Scarborough... I'm sort of resigned to the idea that I will ultmately not be able to avoid formal transition at some point, and that I am in a form of slow transition now.
There are however 2 questions that I still hope to have a little control over... ::)
1) Will I be able to last long enough to secure a half decent future for my family without loosing the house, inheritance, etc...
2) Will I die first?
...simple but pretty final. ;)
:icon_hug:
Chrissty
I said the majority of us considering how many of us stop short of full transition compared to the number who continue on. You could say they stop because they aren't really transsexuals or don't really have GID, but I think it is more likely they reach a point of equilibrium where the benefits of complete transition do not justify the costs.
With regard to treating GID with complete transition as a first alternative - that is like nuking a cancerous tumor with full on chemotherapy before it's certain it isn't going to be cured with less destructive treatments.
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 07:53:39 PM
I know of relatively few who stop short of full transition actually.
Again, whom or what are you basing this analysis on?
My experience and perceived numbers. For a simple example, are the majority of the people on this website fully transitioned or not? I recognize the population of this site may be anecdotal therefore I ask, are there more pre-ops or post ops in the world who experience GID? I really don't know for sure, but induction seems to imply there are far more of those in the world who experience GID to some degree who do not transition fully than those who do.
EDIT: But what do I know? Perhaps my experience with the transsexual community was completely a microcosm and somewhere out there exists a community where almost everyone transitions completely and few drop out.
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 07:53:39 PM
Ah, but most of us have tried alternative, less destructive treatments and the cancer has simply grown worse - exacerbated by those treatments.
To put it simply:
You want to live with and manage your disease, while I want it cured.
The question is though, why do you fear the cure so much?
I'm glad you have tried an alternative before jumping in feet first. So am I, so are others. This post was directed at those who are not transitioning but still cope with the GID, in other words, those who are looking for an alternative. You seem to assume I'm not trying to cure my GID. Trust me that I am trying to cure it. I do not fear a cure, but I can imagine others being afraid of an alternative to transition considering how much many have sacrificed TO transition.
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 07:53:39 PM
The question is though, why do you fear the cure so much?
I'll have to ask that you respect the life paths of those who do not wish complete physical change for whatever reason.
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 07:53:39 PM
Ah, but most of us have tried alternative, less destructive treatments and the cancer has simply grown worse - exacerbated by those treatments.
To put it simply:
You want to live with and manage your disease, while I want it cured.
The question is though, why do you fear the cure so much?
As I see it, there is more than one possible cure. To continue the cancer analogy, some choose to undergo chemo, which is highly toxic, and not 100% effective. Others might choose a holistic approach of Chinese herbs and a macrobiotic diet.
In the same way, some of us might choose SRS, which is an invasive surgery, not without possible risks, and HRT, which we also don't totally know what the long term effects might be. Others choose to manage their dysphora/disconnect in alternative ways.
Do whatever works for you! There isn't one right way.
Z
I work with many, many trans people and I can tell you that the percentage of people who take hormones but are not and will not transition full-time is larger than many people think. Many people do not experience the I'm-going-to-put-a-bullet-in-my-head-if-I-don't-go-full-time thing. Does GID debilitate many people and make it so that it is something that MUST be dealt with in a ripping-out-the-cancer-at-all-costs way? Sure it does! Does that make the people who transition to full-time any more of something (more womanly, more desperate, more trans, more GID, more happy, more sad, more fill-in-the-blank)? No way!
I think it's great that you have been so introspective with your situation Interalia. I think it's super that you ask questions and seek answers that are not the rote rx for most transpeople. Although a lot of people who go down the path that you are going choose not to talk about it (who can blame anyone, even suggesting not transitioning can have dire verbal consequences in certain places) you are providing a voice for many, many people. I thank you for that. I too thought that the percentage of people who are on HRT and DON'T transition outwardly to people was super low but it's simply not the case. I support you my friend and it's great to see you around again :) Meghan
I find this discussion quite fascinating too. I am a bio-female and identify as androgyne (sp?) I am not butch or even try to behave like a man in any way, but if I were able to be born again and could choose my sex, I would choose male.
I imagine there would be males who feel the same way. They might wonder what it would be like to transition, but would never attempt it for various reasons, obviously not having GID in a do or die dilemma. I understand to have it so severely, the need to transition would be overpowering.
Forums such as these are a good outlet I would say. ;)
I use a radiation poisoning analogy when thinking of GID, in that all the feedback you get from the universe that tells you that you are the wrong sex is like harmful radiation. Everywhere you turn in this wide world you will find things emanating a harmful glow, some things brighter than others. But even the stuff that has such a dim emission that you don't even have a conscious awareness of the danger, like your own pheromones for instance, can be deadly with prolonged exposure.
The other aspect that makes it like radiation is that there is a cumulative effect. The longer your exposure, the less resistance you have to it's affects. Since there is no way to avoid exposure altogether while living, the longer you live, the weaker your defense will be.
So how do you beat such an insidious foe? Don't ask me, I totally lost, lol. That shouldn't discourage you too much because I may just have had a weak immunity. I guess if it really is like radiation poisoning, the two things you can do (if you can't live with the side affects of the cure) is either avoid exposure, or put on protection, or maybe a little of both.
I'm not going to go too crazy (or at least crazier than I already have, lol) with the analogy because it can be taken to the nth degree, so I'll leave it up to you to decide what constitutes protection and/or avoidance.
I do know that I was like you in the sense that being accepted socially as a woman was the only thing that helped, and just dressing in different clothes had a negligible effect. I do agree with you that that does make it harder.
I really do hope you find a way to make life work for you and, most of all, fill it with happiness and joy. Good luck :)!
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 11:22:31 PM
So what are you doing to cure it?
I gathered from your comments and blog that you are managing your GID, rather than trying to cure it. Are you hoping that the process of managing it will eventually get rid of it? Or is it part of some larger plan that will eventually result in the erasure of your GID?
I had to first learn to manage it in order to be able to think clearly enough to know what to DO about it. Learning coping strategies has taken time and trial and error. They are also not one size fits all like I wrote in my OP. Once I had it controlled enough so it wasn't encompassing my every waking moment (like it was prior to transition) then I began some seriously in depth study of it. I am still studying it today.
I am seeking the cure by looking for comparisons in the research that has been done already and in analyzing my own and others' experiences. I do not have a cure yet, but I've learned a heck of a lot about this condition that has helped me to learn how to not provoke it. I think as I spend more time learning about it, and new insights become available, we will come closer to really understanding what it is we experience and then how to remove it (if possible).
The kind of research that I feel has been most effective has been psychological. The problem is though most of the research into transsexualism is biological (looking for a genetic base or body problem) and not a lot of it is looking at the mind, the social constructs, etc. Not that I'm down on looking for a biological cause/cure, but I think it more likely we will discover a psychological one first.
To note, I'm also working toward my PhD in Psych (though with my current financial situation I won't be able to start my residency until 2012, though I still work actively at the university with their gender studies program) so that I can open my own lab to study even more in controlled experiments. I realize my desires for continued research and to find a psychological cure will probably make me about as popular as Blanchard, Bailey, and Co. but if it frees some of us from the chains of our GID without having to transition, the cost will be worth it.
Post Merge: May 25, 2010, 01:47:24 AM
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on May 24, 2010, 10:59:45 PM
I work with many, many trans people and I can tell you that the percentage of people who take hormones but are not and will not transition full-time is larger than many people think. Many people do not experience the I'm-going-to-put-a-bullet-in-my-head-if-I-don't-go-full-time thing. Does GID debilitate many people and make it so that it is something that MUST be dealt with in a ripping-out-the-cancer-at-all-costs way? Sure it does! Does that make the people who transition to full-time any more of something (more womanly, more desperate, more trans, more GID, more happy, more sad, more fill-in-the-blank)? No way!
I think it's great that you have been so introspective with your situation Interalia. I think it's super that you ask questions and seek answers that are not the rote rx for most transpeople. Although a lot of people who go down the path that you are going choose not to talk about it (who can blame anyone, even suggesting not transitioning can have dire verbal consequences in certain places) you are providing a voice for many, many people. I thank you for that. I too thought that the percentage of people who are on HRT and DON'T transition outwardly to people was super low but it's simply not the case. I support you my friend and it's great to see you around again :) Meghan
Meghan thank you for your continued support. Though we walk different paths I've always been grateful for your experiences and your encouragement. You are correct, I represent a silent minority (that I find growing every day).
Jen, I think your example is spot on, and yes it is up to us to determine how to deal with the radiation.
Zyth, I never thought of it that way before, but yes I can see your example! :)
I'm glad both Hermoine and perlita are finding this discussion interesting.
Vexing thank you for your questions. I hope I am answering them sufficiently. We are taking things differently for sure, but I can absolutely respect why it is someone would choose transition, a near definite cure, over some cooky pie in the sky idea there might be another way to deal with the GID.
Quote from: interalia on May 25, 2010, 01:38:37 AM
I realize my desires for continued research and to find a psychological cure will probably make me about as popular as Blanchard, Bailey, and Co. but if it frees some of us from the chains of our GID without having to transition, the cost will be worth it.
If one day in the future you feel you have found a cure, what will you do to mitigate the social fallout such a claim would have for this community? I get the impression from your posts that you really do have a benevolent nature and I can believe you have noble intentions, but you have to realize any hint that this is all just a choice would carry consequences, for those that have already transitioned and for those that would rather not mess with their sense of self, which would be measured in lives lost and lives ruined. Those lives hopefully will be a part of the cost you consider.
Quote from: Jen on May 25, 2010, 02:53:42 AM
If one day in the future you feel you have found a cure, what will you do to mitigate the social fallout such a claim would have for this community? I get the impression from your posts that you really do have a benevolent nature and I can believe you have noble intentions, but you have to realize any hint that this is all just a choice would carry consequences, for those that have already transitioned and for those that would rather not mess with their sense of self, which would be measured in lives lost and lives ruined. Those lives hopefully will be a part of the cost you consider.
I can illustrate how I feel about this best by a quick story. During transition I had a very dear friend. She was about my age, and we were transitioning together. Going through transition, we both had terrible trials, but we could always count on one another. We became the poster-children for the trans community, young, intelligent, passable women that others found to be inspirational. When I began to question whether transition was right for me, she never did. We talked for hours upon hours debating the merits of transition vs attempting to live life without it and find another way. In the end, I made a choice and left the path. I moved away, though we vowed to remain friends.
A year passed and I was invited to visit her. Returned to our old apartment I was filled with wonderful memories of the time we spent together. Meeting her (now post SRS) we could see how much we had changed in a single year. She and I were both happy but in different ways. Both of us lamented the things we envied about the other and we shared a deep and abiding kinship that would never dissipate.
Our lives have mirrored one anothers' since that time with both of us finishing college around the same time, both of us getting married, and both of us seeking to adopt children. She is truly one of my best friends and closest confidants.
I would never for a moment take away her happiness, the happiness she obtained by transitioning fully to the woman I believe she is. I love her with the love of a tender friend and am happy she has obtained all that she ever sought after in life.
Stories like hers are the exception though and not the rule. Few are as fortunate as she is (or for that matter, as I was). Due to this I feel it important that if a cure can be found, that others be made aware of it even if the world will then look down at people like my friend. The reality is there are far far more that will be helped than hurt by the existence of such a cure and that weighs heavily on my mind.
Truth be told, a cure is a MASSIVE "if". It probably will never manifest and my efforts will likely end up largely in vain, but I recognize a calling to do it, and to date what I have learned has helped me and others like me. I only hope in the meantime more people can find the peace my dear friend has.
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 25, 2010, 02:22:23 AM
Well hey, I'm an atheist - I work with near certainties, not maybes. We still need people chasing the maybes though, in case one of their theories strikes gold.
I don't hold much hope for your psychological cure; something like gender identity gets firmly rooted in our minds as children and I'm fairly certain that removing it will cause more damage than good - or drastically and permanently alter a person's mind, which will essentially be a death of self.
But that doesn't really answer my question of "why not?" with regards to you transitioning. Do you feel that the cure (transition) is worse than the disease (GID)?
Transition can indeed be more costly than GID in some cases. But it is truly individual. I have known some for whom there seems to be no alternative, that any cost associated with transition is worth it to relieve the pain of their GID.
For me transition held few unmanageable costs (though the several costs I list are detailed on my blog). I could have eventually disappeared into a sea of cis-gendered people as a young woman never to be seen as trans again, but I felt strongly that if I *could* make it without transition, I *should*, if for nothing else than for the sake of all those who couldn't disappear into that same sea of cis-gendered people who would lose spouses, family, employment, friends, social status, risk poverty, destitution, and potential suicide all to transition. I felt those people deserved a chance at happiness too, happiness that wouldn't cost so much that was dear to them.
So here I am, attempted to do my best to figure out this crazy condition we have, how it operates, why it does what it does and ultimately how to fix it. I feel I could still quietly transition into the night, but I feel doing so would be doing a great disservice to those I could potential help - seeing myself in an incredibly unique position to do so.
In the end, as I mentioned before, it may all end up for nothing, but ultimately I could not feel I was true to myself unless I was giving of my talents and strengths for the uplifting of others.
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 25, 2010, 04:12:03 AM
You know, pouring your heart and soul into working to stamp out the demonising of trans people and the stigma attached to being trans would mean that the 'costs' of transition become no greater than the current 'costs' of being gay.
Making the world a better place for trans people is very important to me. I've been involved for a few years in the attempt to add gender identity and expression to our states' anti discrimination legislation. My partner and I have presented on trans issues at various churches and other organizations. I want to create a world in which it is safe for a trans person to be whoever they are, be it full transition, or living outside the binary.
Z
Your story about your friend was very sweet :).
QuoteThe reality is there are far far more that will be helped than hurt by the existence of such a cure and that weighs heavily on my mind.
I'm not sure I agree with this because it will hurt everybody that transitions and most of those it might help may well have been helped by transitioning anyway. I do know what you mean about the costs of transition, and I'd be all for choices in treatment if the second option didn't carry such dangerous consequences.
If you don't have a plan of how you might limit the damage your work could potentially have for people like me and your friend, then I really hope you think about it.
QuoteTruth be told, a cure is a MASSIVE "if". It probably will never manifest and my efforts will likely end up largely in vain, but I recognize a calling to do it, and to date what I have learned has helped me and others like me.
I am pretty sure if you do plan on barking up the "psychological basis" tree that you'll be unlikely to find a real cure, but the cure doesn't have to actually work to cause the social fallout, it just has to be put out there. The actual efficacy of such claims always matters less than the headlines, and the follow-through rarely makes the news.
QuoteI would never for a moment take away her happiness, the happiness she obtained by transitioning fully to the woman I believe she is.
QuoteI feel it important that if a cure can be found, that others be made aware of it even if the world will then look down at people like my friend.
You do realize these two statements are contradictory, don't you?
sorry I deleted this reply. I don't belong in here lol :-*
Quote from: interalia on May 24, 2010, 08:05:55 PM
My experience and perceived numbers. For a simple example, are the majority of the people on this website fully transitioned or not? I recognize the population of this site may be anecdotal therefore I ask, are there more pre-ops or post ops in the world who experience GID? I really don't know for sure, but induction seems to imply there are far more of those in the world who experience GID to some degree who do not transition fully than those who do.
EDIT: But what do I know? Perhaps my experience with the transsexual community was completely a microcosm and somewhere out there exists a community where almost everyone transitions completely and few drop out.
I'm glad you have tried an alternative before jumping in feet first. So am I, so are others. This post was directed at those who are not transitioning but still cope with the GID, in other words, those who are looking for an alternative. You seem to assume I'm not trying to cure my GID. Trust me that I am trying to cure it. I do not fear a cure, but I can imagine others being afraid of an alternative to transition considering how much many have sacrificed TO transition.
I find it kind of weird that you refer to GID like its a mental disorder. It's just who we are really. You can not really cure it. I got desperate and wanted to resort to repairitive therapy but I realized it just doesn't work that way. All that matters is that you're being true to yourself.
Well not all trans peoples brains are fine...I mean look at Anne Lawrence :3
But I digress....save it for another topic XD
Jen, I am struggling to understand your concern about a "cure" being found for GID. You appear to be concerned that such a step would invalidate the actions of those who have chosen to transition. How would it? Finding that GID can be beaten with a psychological cure as well as by medical transition does not
1) invalidate GID as a syndrome. If it needs a cure, it exist and
2) automatically invalidate transition as an option. One size doesn't fit all in the therapeutic world, just as depression can be cured with talking therapy or with antidepressants, at the risk of using a mental health issue as an analogy. Well, we've had screaming babies and toxic radiation, so why not?
If there were a wider range of "treatments" available (sorry for all the inverted commas. Medical terms seem both necessary and inappropriate here), then there is a greater chance that one can be found that can suit the individual's particular situation.
Lastly, my personal thoughts on the likelihood of a psychological cure being possible. I think we need to split GID into two components. One is the personal identification of one's gender with that of the opposite biological sex. My belief is that this can not be "cured". This isn't a delusion, this is core belief with a possible neuropsychological basis and I can see little hope of shifting it. And we know that brainwashing doesn't work in the long term.
The second component is the distress this belief causes. This could almost certainly be treated and I am surprised there isn't more research on this. What would that entail? If I knew, I would be a happy, happy non-transitioning bunny.
And Jen, I can see your anxiety about a new understanding of GID potentially causing more problems for an already beleagured group, but you can't halt potentially useful scientific investigation just because some bigotted twats might misinterpret it. If there is a chance of a Plan B, it really has to be explored.
There is no black & white only shades of grey....
And nice though that reality is.... many parts of the world simply do not tolerate or religiously accept anything else but the male + female = stable social continuity bit...
(Lie though it is)
So I applaud anyone that chooses to remain a blur or mix of two sexes....though of stern stuff you will need to be made....defo if you live say in a predominantly Islamic culture....or a place with less liberal views?
For me personally, my own story involves a male life that had become too depressing internally though outwardly I would have been termed highly successful (ironically)!!
Through my mid-twenties the inner girl seeking freedom and release became too overwhelming to continue to suppress and deny it any longer, (however for a short period I did turn to hedonistic partying/booze to kill the pain of it all off and play harder at being distracted)..... and for me as time progressed...secretly wearing clothes and dressing up simply didn't cut it anymore...so were not a workable solution.
As I worked in an industry with models.. it was straightforward to get hold of a book about Caroline 'Tula' Cossey... titled (I am a woman).... after reading it I was finally acutely aware of my own ghastly predicament...lol
The turning point came also for me by knowing that even though I'd met the ultimate female partner as such, blonde, beautiful, successful and brilliant with an IQ of 165....and we'd set-up a wonderful home life together... it was (still) not enough to keep me diverted from my true alter ego self...
Though for the first year or so while living with my ex I did with some turmoil resist it....but like any lie.... the ugly truth would keep surfacing.
I remember sobbing about this all one weekend, while she was away on business... as I knew in my heart of hearts how destructive this calling was going to be... and it did cause her family a great deal of distress, when I finally came out.
The turning point was late eighties seeking professional medical help...
Hormones were a huge blessed relief....mainly because they lifted a dark cloud permanently within my head 3 months or so of going on them....I've never suffered with any organic type depression ever since....
And after that when my (true puberty phase kicked in) there was never any turning back....with another 18 months or so I'd changed over for good...
And have never looked back.
In fact I would add I found freedom and glorious liberation.... once able to fill-out a woman's swimming costume, with some curvy panache... I could finally enjoy the sun on my body.... and be no longer ashamed or disturbed by my false physicality....
(I had always had appalling male body dysmorphia... and hated taking my clothes off high collar shirts and ties were my daily safety blanket routine)
So becoming a woman physically was like coming into the light after a long period of dark...and if you invest masses of energy trying to hide and deny something you're not.... then imprisoned you truly be....
And what kind of life is that?
My only regret and I don't have many....is that I was born in the late fifties....when the condition was barely understood.... oh to be a teen now that would have easier access to a gender clinic....
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on May 24, 2010, 10:59:45 PM
I too thought that the percentage of people who are on HRT and DON'T transition outwardly to people was super low but it's simply not the case.
How much relief does this have?
I have been on HRT for 6 or 7 years. From the first 24hrs after it kicked in, I have not experienced that black depression with suicidal ideation that GID gave me. Now I have also had all facial hair removed, and live in fem role when not at work. I am married and have a loving wife who supports me totally and would have no problems if I transitioned publicly. My fears are quite simple. I need to make a living and would find it very difficult to do so unless totally passable. I may do so when I retire. My point is to be an exponent of the "middle way". At least until you can do everything necessary to be independent. I have seen a number of girls in my support group transition and have it turn into a complete disaster, either with work or family. The pain of GID that I still feel is less than the pain that I would have being poor, jobless, and friendless. Especially at my age. Now some girls make it into full transition and are successful. I applaud them. However, many more would be well advised to find a middle path that alleviates the pain, while getting on with life. Sometimes I think reading others overly optimistic accounts are misleading in the worst possible ways. I hope you find your own path, and the level of relief you need.
Quote from: interalia on May 24, 2010, 06:54:09 AM
Ultimately what is the real goal of all this? To become the opposite sex or to relieve our GID symptoms? I think we get that confused. Sometimes those two answers are one in the same and when they are, go for it. However I suspect the majority of us don't need to go that far to help us with the initial dilemma, relief from the pain.
I would agree with your but I don't see or know how to find people who find relief from the GID when not transitioning. I read all of your blog posts and a lot of your message board posts and it doesn't seem like you're finding relief, just acceptance. Acceptance is doable, it explains so many late transitioners. I'm 36 and my GID has gotten harder and harder to deal with. It's an itch I haven't been able to scratch. I would love to see another option. I'd love to take a pill and have the GID disappear. I am certain that my life will overall get worse the further I go in transition. I am hoping that HRT alleviates enough of the problem that I can keep the amazing life I have but start thinking straight. I like my name, my identity, am very happy, just feel like a stranger in my body. Like my self-image map is wired wrong.
My therapist is bored with me. The only problem I really have is GID. Everything else is wonderful. I would love to find people who have found relief without transition or partial transition and learn their secrets. I'm sure they don't hang around here....coming to this board doesn't seem like relief.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on January 06, 2011, 11:44:11 AM
From the first 24hrs after it kicked in, I have not experienced that black depression with suicidal ideation that GID gave me.
Do you still have GID? Are you distracted by it? Are you obsessive about it at all?
I've never really been suicidal...mostly very sad and incredibly distracted. I think about it constantly.
I do not know how to describe it. It is no longer painful or unbearable to me. I would still like to transition at some point, but that driver, that need to get rid of the pain isn't there. The obsessive nature has gone. I can make social and financial plans. I had previously put off finalizing certain professional designations, simply because I couldn't see how to integrate being transsexual with those goals. Today I can. I control it, yet I know it still has to be fed. I can control the feeding schedule. Perhaps that wouldn't work for you. It certainly doesn't for some others. Eh! It depends on what you are trying to save in lieu of transitioning. That will determine how much noise and distraction you are willing to put up with.
I like to post here specifically to present (with tact, I hope) that very side. There are many, like myself, that for whatever reason have not transitioned. I have been going to group therapy for transitioning girls for a number of years. That helps. Unfortunately, many of them crash and burn, losing everything. I am not willing to do that. If and when I do transition, I will have the financial wherewithal and support to do so comfortably.
Cindy, I too have had the experience with estrogen taking away my dysphoria and confusion. At first I really really wanted to become a woman-and I still do- but the burning desire to do it now has subsided somewhat and is much easier to control. I still want to be feminine but I am not in such a hurry as I too have others who depend upon me and I have much to loose in the process. Now I only use estrogen when I become distressed and distracted beyond what I can easily deal with. Thanks for posting your thoughts-no, you are not the only one who feels this way. Japple, PM me if you want to.
Randi
Quote from: Randi on January 08, 2011, 05:14:14 PM
Cindy, I too have had the experience with estrogen taking away my dysphoria and confusion. At first I really really wanted to become a woman-and I still do- but the burning desire to do it now has subsided somewhat and is much easier to control. I still want to be feminine but I am not in such a hurry as I too have others who depend upon me and I have much to loose in the process. Now I only use estrogen when I become distressed and distracted beyond what I can easily deal with. Thanks for posting your thoughts-no, you are not the only one who feels this way. Japple, PM me if you want to.
Randi
I went for an initial meeting with my gender therapist Thursday (actually a second meeting, but it took so long to get the insurance on board, it was a second initial meeting). Outside of writing here on Susan's and talking with my wife, she is the first person with whom I have reviewed my 60-65 year history of "dysphoria and confusion". And the confusion is compounded by having a wife of many years, with whom I am as close as I believe any two people can be, four adult children who are emotionally very close (though geographically a little scattered), and three grandchildren. Because I am a woman, these relationships are my life.
And yet, every time I am the sole "man" in a group of women, and they apologize to me and act differently in my presence, it sets off a terrible yearning within. And every time I bump into something or step on something because my body isn't the one it feels like within, I feel that yearning though I know no amount of surgery can fix that part of dysphoria. And when my wife said she wished I could give birth to our baby, I said: So do I, so do I, but there still is no medical treatment that can give me a functioning uterus and ovaries. I haven't cross dressed since I was a teen, because I know that a dress on these clumsy bones only makes matters worse.
I did take finasteride for a medical problem three years ago, and found the psychological effects incredible. So when my therapist asked if I had considered taking estrogen I answered yes, probably visibly enthusiastically. She says we still have a lot of work to do first, but your posting puts me in such an optimistic frame of mind, I had to say thank you!
In the meantime, I am thankful to have a wife who lets me play working housewife. It is a much easier role than workaholic absentee father. Tonight we both enjoyed eating a dinner of steak with barbecue rub, brussels sprouts with mustard sauce, and a variation of potatoes Anna, and the compliments she gave me were definitely therapeutic. ^-^
S
Estrogen had a similar effect with me and even though I haven't taken it for nearly 6 months now, it set off a chain of events that have pushed my GID out of the limelight. It isn't the force it used to be and I feel the estrogen helped a ton - not as a permanent fix, but like with depression meds it helped me think clearly enough for a time to work out some real solutions and now, I've never been more free.
Quote from: interalia on November 30, 2009, 12:35:02 PM
So my question goes, for those who are not undergoing full time living, do you feel your GID is less intense when you give it some limited expression, and if so, how do you express it?
I allowed myself limited expression for 20 years. Each small step did help to decrease my overall anxiety and feelings of hopelessness but it was only a temporary fix. After the feeling of accomplishment and relief subsided, I often found myself left with an even more intense desire to transition. After exhausting practically every form of 'limited expression' that exists there was nothing left for me to do short of rot away or transition. I do think that limited expression should be explored if it has not. I also think that each case is unique and what may not work for one, may work well for another. In my case, it was only a matter of time before this form of coping had completely exhausted itself. Besides only being a temporary fix, I began to increasingly feel that these limited forms of expression were creating a false sense of who I really was. I was attempting to cope with something I felt was inevitable but impossible.
I became a twisted version of who I really was. I tried vehemently to identify as a 'crossdresser' or 'part time' but I could never assimilate this into my brain. It ultimately caused me even more confusion and pain. After many years, I was left with a feeling of emptiness and isolation. I was living underneath the largest weight I could ever imagine. It took a lot of courage and determination to move that weight off of me as it blocked my entire life and sense of who I was. The only thing that brought me out of that funk was to take control of the situation and express myself to the fullest. To limit my expression at that point was to die. I finally conquered my fears of transitioning, which were, in reality, the only thing blocking the rest of my life. Upon making that momentous decision, before even injecting the first shot of E, I was overtaken by such a sense of relief it is beyond words to try to explain. Finally it was over, so to speak. There have been new issues and problems to face upon making that decision, but they do not hold a candle to the weight that was suffocating me. I no longer have an issue with being who I am or doing what I feel is right for me. I am now in the process of transitioning, and while I am moving with a strong determination, it is no longer the focus of my life nor do I constantly battle with myself about what to do. I am finally proceeding with the rest of my life. A very interesting side effect of making that decision is that I no longer feel a desire to seek forms of limited expression, even though I am not yet living 'fulltime' by the most common interpretation of the phrase.
Naari,
The fact that limited expression didn't work for you is, well, just that- it didn't work for YOU. The fact that it does work for some of us doesn't mean we identify as crossdressers. Darn, it makes me mad when that term gets bandied about in a pejorative way. You did however, mention that it did seem to work for you for 20 years. I would never allow limited expression to turn me into a "twisted version" of who I really am. I take a serious hormone regimen "full time" so I certainly don't feel like I am part time. I simply interact with the work-a-day world presenting male, with breasts. Otherwise as fem. It works for me. It just sounds as if you have made a decision to transition, fine. That is your experience and your decision. There are plenty of other boards on this site that support you. This board is for people trying to find, for whatever reason, a middle ground that works for them. I think that someone deciding to keep their family together as more important to transitioning doesn't make them Part time or one of those dreaded ->-bleeped-<-s. It just means that they have different issues and put different weights to the importance of those issues. It isn't a contest, not right vrs wrong, just different people dealing with the same problems in different ways.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on January 09, 2011, 10:57:03 AM
Naari,
The fact that it does work for some of us doesn't mean we identify as crossdressers. Darn, it makes me mad when that term gets bandied about in a pejorative way.
I never said that it doesn't work for some. I said it didn't work for me. I also didn't use 'crossdresser' in a negative connotation or suggest that anyone else identifies as one.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on January 09, 2011, 10:57:03 AM
I think that someone deciding to keep their family together as more important to transitioning doesn't make them Part time or one of those dreaded ->-bleeped-<-s. It just means that they have different issues and put different weights to the importance of those issues. It isn't a contest, not right vrs wrong, just different people dealing with the same problems in different ways.
I never said one way was right or wrong. Never did I use the term ->-bleeped-<-. Nor dreaded. Keeping a family together is very important.
This tread is possibly one of the most interesting and thought invoking that I have ever had the pleasure of reading. It is also helping me understand my past and what I went through with GID in my youth up until the very recently. In the last four months, I have begun a low dose of Estrogen and the calming effect has been miracle for me and ease the feelings of GID completely. I am also experiencing physical changes as expected therefrom, which also have been very satisfying to say the least.
This subject, as I see it is a very complex one and effects everyone differently, but I believe we all share one thing in common. Please forgive me for over simplifying it in the following manner, because I understand how serious this is, but its if we are all like superman, or superwomen (which ever applies) and we are trust on this earth as Clark Kent. We are raised as Clark Kent everyone knows us only that way, but inside we know we are different, I use the 'super' analogy because I think we are all "super special" and until you understand how special you are and accept yourself, whether you decide to transition or not makes little difference if your not happy inside.
Just think of the good folks that have gone all the way with transition and very successfully I might add, only to have regret latter and now feel that they have to de-transition. White meat or dark, Its my opinion until one can accept one's self and all conditions that come with our "super special" character (GID included) you can not truly call yourself successful. Learn to love yourself and embrace your uniqueness your given path will be discovered by you
Peace and Love
Suzy Johnson
Hey Suzy,
I agree about self acceptance and think most on this thread have it. That is very different from just being aware of the problems with day to day living as a transsexual. For some it is their religion, others their family. Luckily, I don't have problems with either of those. Money/jobs seems to be key for me. Many of the successful transitioners at this site seem to have jobs and careers that allow it as part of the culture. I have seen a number who work at companies that have employee handbooks that claim acceptance, then find other reasons to fire them. Lack of income can put pressure on the best marriages. That is what holds me back. My wife and I are just too old to transition seamlessly (though my personal belief is that few do), but we are just a little too young to retire. That is not to far off now. The question is how to enjoy who I am, stay sane, while keeping enough of a facade to "fool" the rest in the work-a-day- world. A juggling act to be sure, but hey, I am woman!
It sounds as if you are in some similar situation, finding a way to integrate all aspects of your life?
I understand Cindy, thank you for pointing this out. The problems associated are as varied as the clouds in the sky and some have a much less difficult time than others because of there circumstances (blessings). Yes, currently I am trying very hard to integrate all aspects in my life and have done much soul searching as of late too, and I think I have it narrowed down to a single major factor for the time being.
It has to do with my business and where I want to be financially before I fully transition. Otherwise I am mentally ready and will not let anything stand in the my way, regardless of what others might think.
Quote from: Randi on January 08, 2011, 05:14:14 PM
I too have had the experience with estrogen taking away my dysphoria and confusion.
Serious question for people who say that HRT has had an effect. Do you think it's the chemical effect of estrogen or the fact that you are transitioning? I ask because coming out and being willing to transition had a tremendous effect. The world of possibility and the melting shame over the secret was huge. I am not completely comfortable, but much much better off than in the past.
Quote from: japple on January 09, 2011, 07:33:14 PM
Serious question for people who say that HRT has had an effect. Do you think it's the chemical effect of estrogen or the fact that you are transitioning? I ask because coming out and being willing to transition had a tremendous effect. The world of possibility and the melting shame over the secret was huge. I am not completely comfortable, but much much better off than in the past.
When I transitioned, I was taking E. The dysphoria went away. I assumed back then it was because I was transitioning. Flash forward 10 years: I started taking E again, the dysphoria went away and in no way was I transitioning. I figure it does have an effect though for the life of me I have no idea what, if it effects everyone or just some people etc. I only even tried estrogen again after all these years because the trans people I know who are not transitioning and are older all seem to take it. I wanted to test it out for myself and found its effects awesome.
It should be noted though that I'm not on it now but I've also removed several primary GID triggers from my life that were still there back when I started it. Being on E allowed me the clarity of mind (a break from my GID) long enough to see what triggers still remained.
Quote from: Naari on January 09, 2011, 05:26:14 AM
I allowed myself limited expression for 20 years. Each small step did help to decrease my overall anxiety and feelings of hopelessness but it was only a temporary fix. After the feeling of accomplishment and relief subsided, I often found myself left with an even more intense desire to transition. After exhausting practically every form of 'limited expression' that exists there was nothing left for me to do short of rot away or transition. I do think that limited expression should be explored if it has not. I also think that each case is unique and what may not work for one, may work well for another. In my case, it was only a matter of time before this form of coping had completely exhausted itself. Besides only being a temporary fix, I began to increasingly feel that these limited forms of expression were creating a false sense of who I really was. I was attempting to cope with something I felt was inevitable but impossible.
I became a twisted version of who I really was. I tried vehemently to identify as a 'crossdresser' or 'part time' but I could never assimilate this into my brain. It ultimately caused me even more confusion and pain. After many years, I was left with a feeling of emptiness and isolation. I was living underneath the largest weight I could ever imagine. It took a lot of courage and determination to move that weight off of me as it blocked my entire life and sense of who I was. The only thing that brought me out of that funk was to take control of the situation and express myself to the fullest. To limit my expression at that point was to die. I finally conquered my fears of transitioning, which were, in reality, the only thing blocking the rest of my life. Upon making that momentous decision, before even injecting the first shot of E, I was overtaken by such a sense of relief it is beyond words to try to explain. Finally it was over, so to speak. There have been new issues and problems to face upon making that decision, but they do not hold a candle to the weight that was suffocating me. I no longer have an issue with being who I am or doing what I feel is right for me. I am now in the process of transitioning, and while I am moving with a strong determination, it is no longer the focus of my life nor do I constantly battle with myself about what to do. I am finally proceeding with the rest of my life. A very interesting side effect of making that decision is that I no longer feel a desire to seek forms of limited expression, even though I am not yet living 'fulltime' by the most common interpretation of the phrase.
Thank you for your post Naari and welcome to Susan's. Your story is an important one to tell: I have always felt that for some, limited expression can actually work against their coping methods. It seems it did so with you and I've seen it with others. For me, I present myself as socially androgynous and sometimes physically and this doesn't affect me negatively but really seems to help my dysphoria. I know others who will wear clothing under their clothes and that seems to help them cope without making it worse. I'm glad you told your story. Are you expecting to transition fully (SRS, etc)?
Quote from: interalia on January 09, 2011, 10:37:15 PM
Thank you for your post Naari and welcome to Susan's.
Thank you for the welcome. I really appreciate it. ;D
I found myself in a self-created prison but a real one nonetheless. I was free to explore myself as I wanted but there were no doors or windows. I tried to break out a couple times before but failed. I must have been subconsciously chiseling away because at the point I made the final, real decision to transition, the prison crumbled. The very next day, I came out to my friends/family and started presenting differently. I called my therapist and informed her of my decision. We talked a couple times, she faxed the letter to my doctor, I immediately made an appointment, got my scripts, and here I am. I will never again enter that hell of a prison that I created for myself. Sorry to blab before answering your question. I tend to do that sometimes (er.. a lot). I guess I feel like the more I reveal of myself, the more anyone that happens to read my posts will understand me. I am new here and the last thing I wish to do is piss anyone off. I have done enough of that over the last few years, as I became increasingly angry toward the end of my prison sentence. Usually with the ones that were closest to me, unfortunately.
I don't want anyone to think I am putting them in a negative light so I strive to relate my experience from the I perspective instead of saying we, us, them, they, etc. I am a being full of love and compassion for everyone. I wish everyone peace, love, happiness, and hormones. ;) That being said, I am not perfect, I make mistakes, and I sometimes may come across in a way that I didn't intend to. Forgive me if that occurs.
There are some that I will not hesitate to put in a negative light. Hate groups, hating individuals, and outright ignorance will not receive much positivity from me. I am committed to education, raising awareness and wiping out ignorance and hate. I have compassion for the ignorant, but I have a duty to fight oppression and hate of any sort.
Quote from: interalia on January 09, 2011, 10:37:15 PM
Are you expecting to transition fully (SRS, etc)?
Yes I plan to transition fully. There are things I feel I must do immediately, such as give these mones a bit of time to work and start electrolysis. I am comfortable waiting a bit for srs and ffs but I cannot say I will put them off forever and the time that I can put them off may be shorter than I imagine.
If I begin to think philosophically, which is like always.. On a deeply spiritual level, life is but a form of limited expression in itself. Now that I am out of my self-created prison, I can actually think freely and without restriction. I think the important thing is to be happy and comfortable. Whatever gets me there is what I must do. I am not so much focused on an end goal as I am happy to be moving freely now. To remain stagnant, for me, is to die.
IA, I have found your posts, in this thread and in others, to be by turns challenging, fascinating, and thought-provoking, and it's always been your calm, rational, and intellectual approach that I've had most respect for. There is one thing I don't quite understand about you, though. Or perhaps "about you" is the wrong terminology; perhaps "with regards to your decisions" might be more accurate. I accept the general sentiment that transition is not for everyone, and, though I suppose I can't understand that decision, in the same fashion that cissexuals can't really understand the phenomenon of transsexuality or what it "feels" like, I can intellectually grasp that it can be the right choice for some under some circumstances.
But I admit I'm a little baffled when it comes to the story of you and your friend who got SRS. What was it about transition that dissuaded you then, at a time in your life when, as you stated, you represented a "poster child" of the movement, young and passable? Perhaps it's my own myopia that prevents me from understanding more clearly, but whence the dissatisfaction?
I apologize if I sound probing, and if you don't feel comfortable answering, by all means don't. I simply want to get to know more about what makes my favorite intellectual on this board tick.
Quote from: Rebekah with a K-A-H on January 10, 2011, 01:08:50 AM
But I admit I'm a little baffled when it comes to the story of you and your friend who got SRS. What was it about transition that dissuaded you then, at a time in your life when, as you stated, you represented a "poster child" of the movement, young and passable? Perhaps it's my own myopia that prevents me from understanding more clearly, but whence the dissatisfaction?
Personally, I don't think it was anything about transition that turned him off transition; religion turned him off transition.
Anyway, this talk of 'triggers' leaves a bad taste in my mouth - it's as though being female is something to feared, hated, railed against and avoided at all cost.
So I'll now leave the thread in peace.
Quote from: Vexing on January 10, 2011, 02:34:01 AM
Personally, I don't think it was anything about transition that turned him off transition; religion turned him off transition.
That was the vibe I got.
I've been interested in triggers since reading about them here and tried to see over the last couple of days if they made sense to me. It seems like people call sexual excitement triggers? I have a trigger...existence. I'm not always depressed, but I'm always at odds with my gender even when very happy. I'm often very happy.
It seems kind of one-dimensional to me that GID means constant depression. Put me in the body of an antelope and I'm going to try to be a good antelope. Other antelope might think I'm a bit off and I probably want to be human again but I'm not going to lay around waiting to be eaten all the time. There are probably some things i can do and enjoy regardless of whether I'm a human or antelope.
I'm annoyed by the constant distraction of my GID and the extreme discomfort I have with my body as it is. The concept of triggers seem like emotional swings.
Japple, It's definately the effect of the meds. I ran a similar experiment to the one Interalia did and found it was not related to transition but the estrogen that does it for me. I am in a similar situation to Cindy in that I too am close to retirement age. What can I say except 'It works for me'.
Randi
Quote from: Randi on January 10, 2011, 02:15:17 PM
Japple, It's definately the effect of the meds.
Cool, I have an appt with my doctor next week. I want focus.
Quote from: Rebekah with a K-A-H on January 10, 2011, 01:08:50 AM
IA, I have found your posts, in this thread and in others, to be by turns challenging, fascinating, and thought-provoking, and it's always been your calm, rational, and intellectual approach that I've had most respect for. There is one thing I don't quite understand about you, though. Or perhaps "about you" is the wrong terminology; perhaps "with regards to your decisions" might be more accurate. I accept the general sentiment that transition is not for everyone, and, though I suppose I can't understand that decision, in the same fashion that cissexuals can't really understand the phenomenon of transsexuality or what it "feels" like, I can intellectually grasp that it can be the right choice for some under some circumstances.
But I admit I'm a little baffled when it comes to the story of you and your friend who got SRS. What was it about transition that dissuaded you then, at a time in your life when, as you stated, you represented a "poster child" of the movement, young and passable? Perhaps it's my own myopia that prevents me from understanding more clearly, but whence the dissatisfaction?
I apologize if I sound probing, and if you don't feel comfortable answering, by all means don't. I simply want to get to know more about what makes my favorite intellectual on this board tick.
There is little I feel uncomfortable with even if it belittles me in the eyes of others. You ask me why did I quit transition? There are three primary reasons: 1) I felt deceitful, 2) I wanted to marry in my church, 3) I saw the pain of other TS. That is the short version. Here is the longer one.
The deceitful feelings came first. When I started transition it was plain to see I was transgendered. I'm tall, I have large hands, a big nose, and was not on estrogen long. I very much wished I could pass physically so I worked at it and let hormones do the rest. In time I began to be perceived by others as female. As soon as this occurred I moved to a new place, a place no one knew me thinking I could move one step closer to being accepted as female. It worked. Unfortunately it had unintended side effects. While I was accepted as female, I was also expected to have had the experiences of one. Frankly I didn't have the experiences of being a young girl, but to maintain stealth I pretended to or just avoided the conversations altogether. I didn't feel like I had anyone I could be real about my experiences with. Sure I had my TS friends and they were great, don't get me wrong - but they were not able to help, rather they were bewildered I would feel bad after having acheived so much. So day after day I lived my life, the life I'd always wanted and yet it felt hollow.
I started dating and was able to date a few guys - they knew about me, I told them ahead of time. One I met online, one was openly gay - I met him through a TS friend of mine. The first one lasted one date, I knew in spending time with him that he didn't want me as a girl, he wanted me as an object. The second one... that was tragic. I'd often go to his loft downtown where we'd spend a wonderful evening together - make dinner for one another and talk about each other's interests. I felt so attracted to him and emboldened by the fact that he knew my past but didn't seem to care. After a date, a wonderful date I had planned completely, we ate dinner and I asked him if our friendship could go any further. He told me frankly that he had tried to envision the two of us together, that he liked me very much, but ultimately he could only see me as a girl regardless of what lay beneath my clothes. He could not see me as anything but female, and he wasn't attracted to me physically even if he liked my personality.
I was devastated to say the least. I cursed myself, my horrid condition and him because I had fallen for him hard. We remained friends but a doubt began to grow that day I had never considered prior to transition. I would have extreme difficulty finding someone to marry - a man who was straight who would accept me. There was another consideration too. As I began to ponder on these things I realized that I still believed in my old religion and I wanted to be married there, and if not married, I at least wanted to raise my children in the same tradition as my beliefs. The more I considered the hopelessness of finding a suitable man, of finding one who would accept my religion, and finally of finding one who would allow me to raise children in such, the more depressed I became.
So yes, I had 'everything' but I lived in my life hopeless about my future and feeling hollow with the people in my present life. I started to come out to those with whom I was stealth. It felt awesome! I felt like finally people who I cared about and who cared about me, really knew me! I mean they still saw me as a girl, but as a girl with a different past and it was liberating. This had an unexpected consequence too. As I began to liberate myself more and more with people I trusted I asked myself, "Why didn't I do this as a male? Maybe people would have understood, maybe I could have been real with them too and not been living a hollow male life."
For some time since having been involved in the community (not the internet but present members of the TS community) I noticed an intolerable amount of suffering. So many had lost or given up all to pursue transition as it was, "the only way" to combat our GID. I was one of the lucky one's - no doubt about that, but for so many others I saw continual pain. They'd put on a brave face in the presence of new people, but when you got them alone, they came apart. I began to feel like I shouldn't be so fortunate to have transitioned so easily, I began to feel guilty a little too. I wished there were another way - not because I couldn't transition so much but because of how much pain and heartache it might save. I felt motivated enough by this, in addition to my other disappointments to give being a male a go again but to do it differently this time, not hide so much, not live a hollow life, but to liberate myself with others despite living as a male. This was additionally advantageous to me as I could make amends to my church as well - something that had previously been a great source of strength I felt I got far away from.
Well what I considered to be an experiment has turned into a lifestyle and I've learned a lot since then. I have since broken ties with my church - our relationship has run its course, but I have benefited tremendously from the time I was there. I wouldn't be who I am today without it.
I have yet to find the 'secret' to a successful life without transition but I am fortunate enough so as to not feel the terrible pain and anxiety associated with living as a male. I wish the same for others who also do not wish to transition or haven't the means to do so successfully. It is my goal and ambition to find another path so as more of us come of age there will be considerable information so we can make honest decisions for ourselves about what is the right choice for us.
I feel it must be said because I have been accused of this many times. I would never deny the choice of others to transition - in fact for some it is the best option. I just don't want it to be the "only" option - more research should go into alternative methods of treatment, and no I'm not talking about reparative or any other religious based therapy - I have never believed in those - ever. We must accept who we are, what conditions we face, and take steps to live healthy productive lives - not lives of deceit. I feel reparative therapy only allows one the opportunity to deceive oneself and we as humans are perfectly capable of doing that on our own without any outside help. ;)
I hope I've answered your questions, and I appreciate the compliments. It is good to know I am being read by others and am making a positive impact.
Quote from: interalia on January 11, 2011, 12:36:27 AM
I have yet to find the 'secret' to a successful life without transition but I am fortunate enough so as to not feel the terrible pain and anxiety associated with living as a male.
You probably haven't found it because it doesn't exist.
I don't mean to belittle you, but far greater minds than yours have tried and failed.
Quote from: Vexing on January 11, 2011, 12:57:30 AM
You probably haven't found it because it doesn't exist.
I don't mean to belittle you, but far greater minds than yours have tried and failed.
Yes, this is likely true, there may never be a 'secret' to fixing GID, but the things I have learned have helped me immensely in coming to grips and coping with my GID. So even if a complete cure doesn't exist, perhaps I will help to pioneer new forms of treatment and coping methods.
Even if indeed I am the anecdote who happens to be the only person to benefit from my techniques then so be it, at least one person's life was made better, but I feel it far more likely there are others who will benefit as well. As for far greater minds, I imagine they have more important things to worry about than alternative GID treatment methods - so I don't mind it being left to lesser minds like my own. ;)
Quote from: Vexing on January 11, 2011, 12:57:30 AM
You probably haven't found it because it doesn't exist.
I don't mean to belittle you, but far greater minds than yours have tried and failed.
A few great minds have tried and failed. Is this what leads you to believe that it doesn't exist? Do you have actual evidence that your first statement is a fact or is it your opinion?
Quote from: interalia on January 11, 2011, 01:11:08 AM
As for far greater minds, I imagine they have more important things to worry about than alternative GID treatment methods - so I don't mind it being left to lesser minds like my own. ;)
That's the thing about being trans, it doesn't discriminate between great minds and lesser minds. A lot of extremely smart people have tried to find ways of getting their dysphoria to go away, but no one has yet found a decent solution other than transition.
Wouldn't you rather that it was gone, instead of having to let it play you for the rest of your life?
Quote from: Naari on January 11, 2011, 01:15:02 AM
A few great minds have tried and failed. Is this what leads you to believe that it doesn't exist? Do you have actual evidence that your first statement is a fact or is it your opinion?
A few? Trans people didn't pop up in the 20th century.
My statements on here are
always my opinion. Also, note my caveat of 'probably'.
My evidence is the fact that despite trans people being in existence for thousands of years, a solution other than some form of transition has not been found.
For my next trick, I'll prove that God doesn't exist, even though there's no evidence that he doesn't.
Quote from: Vexing on January 11, 2011, 01:15:52 AM
That's the thing about being trans, it doesn't discriminate between great minds and lesser minds. A lot of extremely smart people have tried to find ways of getting their dysphoria to go away, but no one has yet found a decent solution other than transition.
Wouldn't you rather that it was gone, instead of having to let it play you for the rest of your life?
Curing GID through the current available method (transition) at the expense of everything one holds important in their life is not worth it to some of us. An acceptable treatment (if not a cure) which allows them to keep the things they find important would be far preferable. Some here are not in that position of losing everything or are willing to risk it - they have plenty of support at this site. This point thread and indeed my research is for those who feel the cost of transition is far too high a price to pay despite its status as a cure.
Quote from: interalia on January 11, 2011, 01:23:30 AM
Curing GID through the current available method (transition) at the expense of everything one holds important in their life is not worth it to some of us. An acceptable treatment (if not a cure) which allows them to keep the things they find important would be far preferable. Some here are not in that position of losing everything or are willing to risk it - they have plenty of support at this site. This point thread and indeed my research is for those who feel the cost of transition is far too high a price to pay despite its status as a cure.
Then, as our conversations inevitably end, good luck with your quest :)
Quote from: Vexing on January 11, 2011, 01:18:18 AM
My statements on here are always my opinion. Also, note my caveat of 'probably'.
My evidence is the fact that despite trans people being in existence for thousands of years, a solution other than some form of transition has not been found.
Trans people have indeed been in existence for thousands of years. I doubt anyone could have interviewed all of them to see if anyone was able to live a successful life without transitioning. Thank you for clarifying.
Quote from: Naari on January 11, 2011, 01:33:52 AM
Trans people have indeed been in existence for thousands of years. I doubt anyone could have interviewed all of them to see if anyone was able to live a successful life without transitioning.
I'm sure that they would have passed on the secret should they have discovered it; there are many countries with unbroken lineages of third gender people (such as Kathoey, Hijra and Fa'afafine). It's interesting that in all these cultures, a form of transition is still the best (and only) solution.
Quote from: interalia on January 11, 2011, 01:23:30 AM
Curing GID through the current available method (transition) at the expense of everything one holds important in their life is not worth it to some of us. An acceptable treatment (if not a cure) which allows them to keep the things they find important would be far preferable. Some here are not in that position of losing everything or are willing to risk it - they have plenty of support at this site. This point thread and indeed my research is for those who feel the cost of transition is far too high a price to pay despite its status as a cure.
As a retired senior who has battled GID my entire life I wholeheartedly concur with the above. Although I believe transition would probably relieve me of the anguish and torment of living with GID, which certainly would make me a happier person, I still am not prepared to risk losing those who I hold near and dear (my children and grandchildren) so I struggle on. In my case what does makes the fight easier is that I'm blessed with a supportive and understanding wife.
I know I'm not the only senior in this predicament so for myself and the many others I can only hope your research is successful. I believe those of us born in the thirties, forties and fifties are probably more fearful of the cost of transition than younger transsexuals which seems to me is entirely understandable given the attitude of society towards transsexualism in that time period.
I'm going to couch this by saying that I agree fully with what you're saying here. Transition is a last-ditch effort that should be reserved until no other option is viable. The first two years of transition are particularly difficult and often come at great cost. (It cost me three jobs, one parent, and a serious relationship, but I'm starting to make a return on my investment, so to speak.) If you can possibly avoid it, by all means avoid it.
As for surviving bouts of GID I absolutely recommend expressing yourself in whatever limited capacity you can. This is not a case analogous to a recovering alcoholic -- crossdressers report intense relief upon expressing their feminine side. Find a safe space to let it out and do it - if not, the feeling will well up and wreck havoc on the other facets of your life.
That being said, I've popped by the non-op part of this forum a few times and keep seeing your name and this thread come up. Avoiding the GID issue is perfectly healthy, but if the avoidance becomes a driving force in one's life it may be time to reevaluate the purpose for avoiding the issue. The echo chamber doesn't take into account past history, after all, and that's of vital importance in a non-op thread. I've read your blog and understand your position - in fact, I think I still have your contact info in my gchat window somewheres - but I worry.
I spent four years fighting GID after a stunted first attempt to transition. In doing so I dragged a long-term girlfriend through the mud and left her emotionally drained and broken, cheated on her with men, went through life in a depressed haze, lost a job because I was too distracted by GID to function, and generally was a miserable excuse for a man. Yes, transition broke a lot of things. But looking back they were things that were never built on solid ground to begin with. I never liked women, but dated them to help allay GID. (I was a user.) I didn't like being macho, but did it to make myself feel masculine. I knew I liked guys, so I sneaked around my girlfriend's back to be with them and felt disgusting afterward. I knew I couldn't be a girl, and spent a good deal of time and meditation trying to avoid the fact that transition was just a few phone calls away, all the time. All tenets of a life that could have been avoided had I just listened to the screaming baby.
Taking the baby analogy you've put forth a bit further, some parents fear letting the baby grow up. Perhaps the baby will grow to display the mistakes of the parents in all their glory; perhaps the baby will have learning deficiencies that will limit the baby's future; perhaps the baby may be bullied or harassed and the parents feel powerless to protect their darling child. The response is to rein the baby in on a tight leach, never allowing it to explore, to grow, to fall into itself. THe baby cries harder, and the parents wonder why it continues to cry even though they feed it and care for it and love it so much that they would happily die so the baby may never feel a day of suffering.
Babies cry because they have no words to communicate. (Interesting fact of the day: in this regard baby sign has been proven to reduce tantrums because it gives kids a way to communicate simple concepts like "I want milk" or "I'm tired" without resorting to crying.) Calming a crying baby comes down to a simple task: find out what's wrong and fix it, if its fixable. Babies cry because they have no words to tell you otherwise.
I'm not saying I disagree with you, or dislike what you are saying, or anything of the sort. I'm only concerned that you may, as another poster said, be searching for an excuse to snuff the baby out, post after post. I worry that your approach to this may not be healthy. (The fact that you see your GID, post a transition attempt, as that of a recovering alcoholic is distressing, to say the least.) Are you seeing a therapist? not a gender therapist, specifically, but somebody who is monitoring your mental health? There are some things an online forum can only offer suggestions for conquering, and this is most definitely one of them.
(I want to stress that I'm not trying to attack you - I'm just a bit of a mother hen when it comes to people's well-being. Too many people try what you're trying and end up dead; it's better to be cautious and nagging than to be sorry later.)
This is a pretty old thread. I don't think my current situation can be accurately judged by the challenges I had back then.
I am vocal here because someone needs to be. I represent a growing number of people - a voiceless group in a sea of other TS. I want people to recognize they have a choice in how they deal with their GID. I don't care what choice they make, just as long as they know they have one.
I haven't seen too many people dead doing what I'm doing. I have however known several people who are no longer with us who couldn't stand the rigors of transition. My experience could largely be anecdotal. Perhaps there is a whole community of people who try to use psychological coping techniques to deal with the psychological pain brought on by their GID who unfortunately kill themselves. Somehow I doubt it though.
EDIT:
As you've read my blog then you know I did transition. I stopped it though, started looking for another way to deal with my GID. I could have been happy as a girl and there are times I miss it, but I have gained a lot by the experience - an understanding of my condition I don't know that I would have gained had I remained female.
I don't avoid my GID, I don't give into either. I know how it operates, what triggers it and what picks me back up when I'm down. There are times I'm still surprised, but those are becoming rarer and rarer.
As for if I'm seeing a therapist - I tend to think of myself as pretty mentally healthy so have not had a therapist in over 11 years. I am looking into one now because I just found out that I have to go back on T, and I worry of any psychological issues that might arise due to that. A therapist who already knows about me and my choices would be a helpful safety net should the T send me into a funk.
IA, is it a lack of sex hormone (and the risk of Osteo) that has forced you back onto T? Or is it some other condition? I could understand your want to avoid E...
My simple experience is, GID how ever managed during those different stages of life, WILL NOT GO AWAY EVER.
I'm 66 and it can get as VERY bad ever. (Like back at 8 when I was about to cut it off myself)
Plus, I may just have lost the ability to fully transition i.e. not having my planned GRS due to a very expensive brain-op only a few days before planned GRS.
In fact my experience is - it gets worse with age!
I could NOT cope anymore maintaining any form of boy-guise.
It freaked me out. GID at it's worst.
NATURE HAS A WAY TO ASSERT ITSELF. Period.
You can get sort of used to a missing limb, but it will always be missing --- until you find a very good "prosthesis" (neovagina) to practically help you forget it was ever missing - with time.
My example with that good "prosthesis"... will make others ALSO just simply forget there was something amiss, and treat you as if you'd had both your legs always i.e. been female always.
It is this recognition, to be seen and understood as to who we REALLY are. That's this so much needed thing. It just about "evaporates" GID when recognition happens.
Not only being *the girl inside* BUT ALSO OUTSIDE! (MtF)
You can feel it so strongly and immediately, by being simply and normally addressed as Miss or Mrs. so-and-so, and as her and she. Recognized as female, girl, woman.
All in-between is a sort of peg-leg. Yep, it works - of sorts.
But hey babe, you remain one "challenged", even to yourself, yes?
Not to say there are MANY a challenged folks in this world who just never maybe be able to afford or even have any "fix" for their particular condition.
In our case it is transitioning, we know is the fix that works.
"Fully"? Go figure...
Axelle
Quote from: EmmaM on June 25, 2011, 02:18:54 AM
IA, is it a lack of sex hormone (and the risk of Osteo) that has forced you back onto T? Or is it some other condition? I could understand your want to avoid E...
Actually my blood disorder won't allow me to take E anymore, so I will likely have to go back on T for health reasons since I don't produce it anymore. It is a stressful proposition considering how well E works to limit the effects of my GID.