I mean, yes a lot of us are LGB as well as transgendered, but still
People always talk about what LGB have to deal with, etc, and there are so many support groups for them. its like what people say "the T is silent" For example, I was just on my schools PRIDE website, and it hardly mentions transgender issues its all about LGB. I probably wont go to the group now, because I will most likely get tagged as a lesbian, and that isnt me, I'm gay.
I dunno, just feel a little bitter about that, wondering if anyone else did too.
I'd have to say that the issue of LGB ranks a bit up there in the sexual identity issue. I can understand most of the people in a tans community would feel that they are L G or B, but to have people confuse or include 'all transitional people' as L G or B is a bit odd for me.
I try to avoid the actively LGB community in general.
But then again... I'm not L G or B.
I'd say go, if they give you static about who you are... then don't go again, just don't let it hurt your feelings. It's like going to a church and finding out your not 'in their opinion' (what ever their excuse may be) a God fearing person.
I feel rather bitter a snubbed by a lot of things as of late. And yes I have.
I've had the unfortunate experience of dealing with people from the LGB who weren't all that accepting of me being trans. Even had one tell me I have a mental problem. I just try to remind myself it's just people in general who are like this, it's not always the affiliation.
We seem to be the redheaded step child when it comes to issues. No wonder that people seem to think that this is a lifestyle and a 'choice'.
The only 'choice' is that we choose to be true to ourselves. Some of are G, L or B. But some of us are straight. We need to stand and be counted. Counted as just being T. And T only.
Janet
First , I agree with what Janet just said , way to go girl !!!!!!!!!!! Secondly , I left a local Metropolitan church because I got tired of Pleading for acceptence ! What you say , a M C C Church that dosent accept Trans ?????? Sad but true , Ive spent several years trying in vain to gain acceptence of several of the people there . They either don't or never will accept the fact that Transpeople arent a Freak show or there for their entertainment ! Oh yes , I was even told by one member that the reason he came to church was to see what I might be wearing ! I dunno, I know Im way too out of the closet to ever go back . Ive come this far and folks , im here and I want to share and learn all I can to help us become better at being Transgendered individuals !! Ellen Shaver
To answer the question... yes. I do feel L,G,B people have it a bit easier. (Perhaps the L and the G moreso than the B, who often get a lot of resistance from the L and G people who don't believe B's is supposed to be a permanent state. But that's for another post.)
Other than the fact that being T is not yet as accepted by society overall, for those of us T's on the transsexual side there is also that nasty and loooooong process known as transition. L, G, B get to come out and then just get on with life. We come out and then get on spending ourselves blind to correct our bodies, trying to learn habits and traits other people learned while growing up, and trying to unlearn the habits we forced ourselves to learn in order to fit in.
I know my opinion here is inevitably biased, but I don't think L, G, B people have anything close to that hard. And yeah, it does bother me that many of them would rather dismiss us altogether than care.
Quote from: LivingInGrey on December 31, 2009, 12:10:52 PM
I try to avoid the actively LGB community in general.
So you wouldn't be friends with someone who identifies as G, L, or B?
Similar to me, I feel absolutely zero connection to the GLB community, and I hate when people assume that I belong to that GLBT umbrella term. I consider myself a straight woman, and I'm not a big fan of the GLB community, especially when you have men who purposely highten their voices and run around in tight pink tank tops to draw attention to themselves. It makes other GLB's look bad.
Overall, I believe they do have it easier, more resources and a little more understanding. They also don't have to shell out thousands of dollars to transition, and don't have to worry about all the beauracracy of being trans.
However, I can hold my boyfriend's hand in public without stares :)
The GLBT acronym doesn't mean much. Besides the GLB vs T issue, there is a lot of animosity within the community, esp. with the treatment of bisexuals that Diana mentioned.
Elijah, personally I would not go to that group, but if you do, please let us know your experience! They may not understand your perspective, however...
Quote from: Diana_W on December 31, 2009, 02:56:14 PM
To answer the question... yes. I do feel L,G,B people have it a bit easier. (Perhaps the L and the G moreso than the B, who often get a lot of resistance from the L and G people who don't believe B's is supposed to be a permanent state. But that's for another post.)
I'd go way further than "a bit".
I can't speak for anyone else, but I would take being a lesbian rather than trans any day.
I think that the T part of GLBT only serves political purposes. And in that sense, we stand far more to gain from it than GLB's do.
There's far less of us than GLB's and I don't think our issues really relate at all.
GLB are all varied sexual affiliations, our issues are nothing to do with sexual affiliation. In that sense, it only makes sense that we're the minority of the GLBT minority. ::)
I completely understand why some LGB's wouldn't want to be associated with us. In just the same way as Gay's and Lesbians might not like being grouped together with the Transgender spectrum as a whole, I don't like being grouped together with other parts of the transgender spectrum either.
When I first talked to my minister about being TG, I told her it would be easier to be gay. She said that's because almost everyone either knows someone who is gay or knows of someone who is gay, but not many people know that they know someone who is TG. It's the numbers and the visibility. That helped me a lot to be open to everyone, sort of as a public-education project.
My gay friends accept me fully, but they always have – they are my friends. I've had a couple of lesbians become friendlier, perhaps seeing me as someone on a journey a little like theirs. The few times I've been with "the LGB community" they have accepted me even when they don't understand me – accepted me as an outcast like them, even though I am outcast for other reasons.
Having been on the fringes of the gay community most of my life, I've found that it includes many jerks and bigots – probably in about the same proportion as the general population.
One place I lived they were trying to pass a non-discrimination law. There was a fight within the LGBT community whether to press for inclusion of gender identity. Some insisted that we T's should be included; others said it would make it harder to pass. It was included in the proposed legislation and didn't pass. (Perhaps the bathroom issue. ::))
Our issues are different than those of at least gays and lesbians, but we usually benefit from our inclusion in LGBT because that increases our numbers and therefore our clout. As for them having it easier, as one who marched for gay rights I would say we are just lagging thier hard-fought progress.
- Kate
Quote from: K8 on December 31, 2009, 06:01:46 PM
When I first talked to my minister about being TG, I told her it would be easier to be gay. She said that's because almost everyone either knows someone who is gay or knows of someone who is gay, but not many people know that they know someone who is TG.
Do you agree with that?
I could be on a desert island by myself and my GID would STILL bother me. Would the same be true of homosexuality?
EDIT: Maybe I am bitter after all. ;)
I have to say, I am a bit envious of L and G, but haven't had a problem with any. They know what it is like to be outside the normal (a different way to how we are)... Aside from that, I have known 2 bisexual people, one was a girl when I was at TAFE (Further Education) and she was my best friend. The other person I know, is a guy from work (Who is REALLY CUTE) and he has a thing for me (Apparently)
I think it would be easier having a Bisexual boyfriend then a straight boyfriend. Because the response I would get when comming out to them would be something along the lines of; "Oh cool! I've done it with a 2 in 1"
Quote from: sarahm on December 31, 2009, 10:25:26 PM
I have to say, I am a bit envious of L and G, but haven't had a problem with any. They know what it is like to be outside the normal (a different way to how we are)... Aside from that, I have known 2 bisexual people, one was a girl when I was at TAFE (Further Education) and she was my best friend. The other person I know, is a guy from work (Who is REALLY CUTE) and he has a thing for me (Apparently)
I think it would be easier having a Bisexual boyfriend then a straight boyfriend. Because the response I would get when comming out to them would be something along the lines of; "Oh cool! I've done it with a 2 in 1"
If a boyfriend said that to me, I don't think the relationship would last. lol ;D
Quote from: Ashley4214 on December 31, 2009, 09:50:26 PM
I could be on a desert island by myself and my GID would STILL bother me. Would the same be true of homosexuality?
You have a point, Ashley. But my minister and I were talking mainly about the social constructs and how society had held me back from being myself and how I was struggling to come out to myself and to others. One of my best friends is a gay man my age. He went through years of denying his homosexuality, married, had two sons, divorced... Well, you know the pattern.
I also meant that it would be easier to be gay because I knew what being gay was but still hadn't figured out what being transgendered was.
You're right about the desert island for many of us. Some of us have extreme discomfort with our bodies. I pretty much accepted mine (most of the time) but was very uncomfortable in my role in society. I realize that is not always the case.
- Kate
Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 31, 2009, 05:03:25 PM
So you wouldn't be friends with someone who identifies as G, L, or B?
I can't say I wouldn't be friends with someone who identifies as G, L, or B... But I wont go to a social gathering of "Actively" (In other words the people who like to stand in the open and scream they are the way they are, then wait for wolves to rip them apart just so they can QQ about it to the media) G, L and B participants in hopes to make a friend and help represent the T community. I've had several friends that were at the time, and probably still are openly G, L or B and I have a friend that I didn't know for 3 years until he introduced me to his boyfriend.
Well, on one hand they do have it better in an absolute sense. More accepted in society, no transition. And transition isn't perfect either. It's certainly expensive to medically transition.
But on the other hand, their struggles probably seem as difficult/stressing to them as ours do to us. So they shouldn't be dismissed, but neither should they dismiss us. Which apparently they frequently do. And make generalizations about us, and dismiss the condition. I don't really see transsexuals doing this to non-trans LGB and it's pretty unfair.
I'm not bitter about it. Each group has its own issues and struggles. I am a straight transsexual woman who is still learning. There are many in the GLB community who do not understand what transgender people are about. Gender is often equated with sexuality and that's not correct.
The difference between T and GLB is that we wear our identity in the open whereas sexuality is not always so. I have been able to educate some folks about transgender people.
Gennee
I think the T needs to get off of the the LGB coattails. We really are fundamentally different with different issues! The only thing we really had in common before was a shared distaste for all of us by society. Now the LGB feels we are holding them back, and in truth, we can never gain the acceptance we desire while associating ourselves with them.
I've never felt bitter toward them. Their current and past activists worked very hard to get them to where they are today, and while not every member of the LGB community contributed to their success, I am glad for them. I do wish they'd stop being so damn whiny though (just finished reading the StopTheAvatar thread) - seems they can afford to be now considering all the gains they've made.
Nah, I think we have things much easier. We can often assimilate into the mainstream and blend back in, while the GLB will always be subject to public prejudice (if in a relationship).
Quote from: Marie731 on January 01, 2010, 11:43:44 AM
Nah, I think we have things much easier. We can often assimilate into the mainstream and blend back in, while the GLB will always be subject to public prejudice (if in a relationship).
In that way they are the same as we are. They can assimilate too so long as they choose not to show the world their lifestyle and let others assume they are heterosexual.
Quote from: interalia on January 01, 2010, 11:48:34 AM
In that way they are the same as we are. They can assimilate too so long as they choose not to show the world their lifestyle and let others assume they are heterosexual.
Many of us, once we transition, blend into normalcy. But when you're gay you are always gay. My friends have been together in a committed relationship for 25 years but can't marry. They are two men living in the same house, which means they are out to all their neighbors. They don't feel they can hold hands in public. They can't give each other a little peck hello or good-bye in public. They have different issues than I do, but they have issues nonetheless.
And just as my transition is hardly a lifestyle, them living together in a loving relationship is hardly a lifestyle.
- Kate
Quote from: interalia on January 01, 2010, 11:48:34 AM
In that way they are the same as we are. They can assimilate too so long as they choose not to show the world their lifestyle and let others assume they are heterosexual.
True, but in their case, they'd be repressed, hiding, not able to be who they are or love who they want openly.
In my case, assimilation was the goal, my way to *stop* hiding and be who I am.
Assimilation for the GLB is a prison. Assimilation for me led to freedom ;)
Come on, you and we, all know "T" is the hardest road to go down.
I do feel as if we are left out a lot. We have a Pride network at work and its always about GLB and not transgendered. It does get my goat a lot. But there isn't much you can do about it. Plus about 99.9% of GLB people look at me like I am some sort of freak.. guess they aren't as accepting as they like to make out. >:(
I am bitter...
Jay
Quote from: Barbara on January 01, 2010, 12:30:07 PM
Come on, you and we, all know "T" is the hardest road to go down.
We don't all know that. It certainly *can* be hard for some people. But experiences vary. For some, transition leads to their being outcasts. For others, transition allows them to finally fit in and be "normal."
Contrast that to GLB's who are perpetually at the mercy of social prejudice. There is no "escape" for them, no resolution, no way to put it "behind" them and move on.
Quote from: Marie731 on January 01, 2010, 01:29:31 PM
We don't all know that. It certainly *can* be hard for some people. But experiences vary. For some, transition leads to their being outcasts. For others, transition allows them to finally fit in and be "normal."
Contrast that to GLB's who are perpetually at the mercy of social prejudice. There is no "escape" for them, no resolution, no way to put it "behind" them and move on.
But conversely, and again I can only speak for my own experiences, while there might be the hope for escape for us, there's no getting back the time lost before you get there. It's gone forever.
I'd still rather be gay than trans.
I feel that we have been grouped where we don't belong. Despite being a MTF transexual, I have never seen myself as gay and have never been sexually attracted to men. The rest of the world likes to put people in boxes and to put transgender people in the same group as those whose sexuality is different from their heterosexual majority norm is the easiest fit.
I agree with Janet, we have issues with our gender and this is seperate from our sexuality. Science and medical treatment recognise this unfortunately politicians, bureaucrats and the general population do not.
Amongst the gay community, I suspect that there are many who are also uncomfortable with the ts community being grouped with them.
All of the above said, once I have finished transition, do I become a lesbian?
I spent 24 years in the gay community and am now part of the trans community. When I came out many years ago it was not easy to be gay. I lived in a conservative area and times were different. I had to move out of my house while still in high school and support myself by working full time, because I was gay. Members of my family would not speak to me for years. Being gay back then was not accepted te way it is today. From my perspective being trans today is like what being gay was back then. So the gay community has not always had it easy or been anywhere close to accepted by others. My mother is much more comfortable/accepting of me being trans than she was of me being a lesbian. The way I look at it is that I have walked a similar path before, when I came out way back when, and while this is not easy I am familiar with how it goes. I can only hope that in 20 years being trans is accepted as much as being gay is today.
Myles
Quote from: Marie731 on January 01, 2010, 12:13:30 PM
True, but in their case, they'd be repressed, hiding, not able to be who they are or love who they want openly.
In my case, assimilation was the goal, my way to *stop* hiding and be who I am.
Assimilation for the GLB is a prison. Assimilation for me led to freedom ;)
Assimilation as a TS to me is the same as "repression, hiding, not able to be who they are" for the gays that hide their relationships from others. A open gay person and an open TS person both involve allowing their inner self to show through in their lives without giving others the impression through omission or commission that they are just like the heterosexual normative person of their sex.
I have no problem with TS who choose to assimilate no more than I have a problem with GLB who do, but to say one represses while doing it while another doesn't I think is incorrect. Gays are accepted because they are visible, the same must happen for the TS in order to have the same level of acceptance.
The reason that the LG folks have all that stuff is because they went out and created it. The reason they have a voice is because they speak up. Nothing ever changes because someone is out in the cold rain complaining about what's going on inside. You have to take the effort to go in, join, work and participate. And even that is not guaranteed, but its at least possible.
Quote from: interalia on January 01, 2010, 07:13:45 PM
Assimilation as a TS to me is the same as "repression, hiding, not able to be who they are" for the gays that hide their relationships from others. A open gay person and an open TS person both involve allowing their inner self to show through in their lives without giving others the impression through omission or commission that they are just like the heterosexual normative person of their sex.
I have no problem with TS who choose to assimilate no more than I have a problem with GLB who do, but to say one represses while doing it while another doesn't I think is incorrect. Gays are accepted because they are visible, the same must happen for the TS in order to have the same level of acceptance.
Great points!
The difference though, IMHO, is that a gay person is always doing something "different," in the sense of having same-sex relationships. They really can't "assimilate" into the mainstream, they can only hope to be accepted as being different, but just as valid.
Yes, there are those for whom being a transsexual becomes something of a open and proud "lifestyle," with TS cruises and TS seminars and TS bars and TS outings and... you get the idea. And for those people, "acceptance" is what they must hope and strive for. Acceptance for being different, but equally valuable. They set themselves apart from the mainstream as "transgender women" in a "transgender community" and demand to be considered equal, but not the "same." And sure, for those people, their struggles and aims are similar to the GLB.
But for me, it's just not part of my life. I don't hide it, but I don't "identify" as a TS either. I'm not "stealth," nor am I out and proud. I'm not part of any community outside of my neighbors, friends and family.
So by "assimilate" I don't mean I'm hiding or deceiving anyone, I just mean my life doesn't revolve around all this gender identity stuff. I just go to work and live my life without any thought of "gender issues" or doing "TS things," same as so-called normal people do. And if some people consider that deceptive or hiding, then that's really more telling about their issues more than mine.
Quote from: Matilda on January 01, 2010, 07:37:05 PM
"Acceptance" & "tolerance" is what you get when people know that you are NOT female in the first place.
In other words......"Okay, I know you AREN'T female but I 'accept/tolerate' you as one anyway"
In the real world, far away from La La land, women don't get "accepted" or "tolerated" as female/women, we simply are female/women, and everyone knows that.
Quote from: Marie731 on January 01, 2010, 08:06:51 PM
Great points!
The difference though, IMHO, is that a gay person is always doing something "different," in the sense of having same-sex relationships. They really can't "assimilate" into the mainstream, they can only hope to be accepted as being different, but just as valid.
Yes, there are those for whom being a transsexual becomes something of a open and proud "lifestyle," with TS cruises and TS seminars and TS bars and TS outings and... you get the idea. And for those people, "acceptance" is what they must hope and strive for. Acceptance for being different, but equally valuable. They set themselves apart from the mainstream as "transgender women" in a "transgender community" and demand to be considered equal, but not the "same." And sure, for those people, their struggles and aims are similar to the GLB.
But for me, it's just not part of my life. I don't hide it, but I don't "identify" as a TS either. I'm not "stealth," nor am I out and proud. I'm not part of any community outside of my neighbors, friends and family.
So by "assimilate" I don't mean I'm hiding or deceiving anyone, I just mean my life doesn't revolve around all this gender identity stuff. I just go to work and live my life without any thought of "gender issues" or doing "TS things," same as so-called normal people do. And if some people consider that deceptive or hiding, then that's really more telling about their issues more than minetev
I so completely agree with everything you both said.
It's like saying people with AIS or Swyer syndrome are being dishonest if they don't reveal that fact to everyone the meet (a sentiment I have actually heard in the past as well).
I do think it's being dishonest to withhold something like that from a serious partner, given that it's something they would probably want to know. But I don't see how withholding it from anyone else is deceptive.
If you're not planning to sleep with them, it's none of their business.
Call it deceit, stealth, whatever, but I don't see why people should even feel this need to be "out".
If we were truly "accepted", there would be no more need to divulge this fact of our medical history anymore than to withhold it.
I'm actually not too fond of the "openly proud trans" kinda mindset. In the same way that I think openly flamboyant gays don't do too many favors to the gays that act no different to any other guy.
If we want to be accepted, we need to show that we're not "trans" as opposed to male or female, we're trans as well as being male or female. Acting outside the norm doesn't help that perception.
I really don't want to sound like I'm trying or wanting to stop anyone expressing themselves however they like. I'm just saying that I don't think this "I am trans first and foremost" attitude is helpful to us as far as true acceptance.
Tolerance is not the same as acceptance. Trans acceptance should be that we're seen no differently to any other medical condition, and most of all that this isn't perceived a choice, either by personality or lifestyle.
I never asked to or would have chosen to be TS, in the Transgender spectrum, GLBT, or whatever, and I don't feel any compelling desire to be apart of it any more than I have to be.
It's great that there are people sticking up for our rights as human beings, and some of the most inspirational people to me are the one's who dedicate themselves to showing that they're normal people, who just happen to have been born trans, out in the open. But that's not what I ever wanted to be about, and I don't feel like I should be forced to be "out" or made to feel guilty about it, when I never choose to be this way.
Quote from: interalia on January 01, 2010, 11:36:43 AM
I think the T needs to get off of the the LGB coattails. We really are fundamentally different with different issues! The only thing we really had in common before was a shared distaste for all of us by society. Now the LGB feels we are holding them back, and in truth, we can never gain the acceptance we desire while associating ourselves with them.
I've never felt bitter toward them. Their current and past activists worked very hard to get them to where they are today, and while not every member of the LGB community contributed to their success, I am glad for them. I do wish they'd stop being so damn whiny though (just finished reading the StopTheAvatar thread) - seems they can afford to be now considering all the gains they've made.
How are transgender people holding back GLB? For one thing it was transgender people who got gay liberation rolling. GLB was more concerned with assmilation rather than equality. We transgender people wear our identity. Sexuality is something that doesn't have to be revealed. We take a greater risk because we're out there. Lesbians weren't included when all the leadership positions were formed until they banded together and formed their own group.
Gennee
Gennee
Quote from: gennee on January 02, 2010, 04:54:36 PMWe transgender people wear our identity. Sexuality is something that doesn't have to be revealed.
When I walk out my door and enjoy my day, no one knows about my past. I'm just a normal woman doing her thing. I don't have to watch or change my actions in any way to "be myself." I'm not at any risk, even if superman uses his x-ray vision on me.
But when my gay neighbors walk out together, they have to worry about holding hands, kissing, or otherwise doing anything that indicates they're a "couple." They have to be careful. Every day. Even just living together "outs" them.
The T(G) holds back the GLB because the public will always have a problem with allowing male genitals into women's rooms. Seriously, it always come down to that.
I am dealing with both coming out as bi-sexual and as at least gender-queer. The latter is more confusing to me. There is more clarity to being gay or bi than there is to "maybe I am not what my body shows." As to who gets treated worse - I do not think one should generalize too much. There is unfortunately enough fear, hate and prejudice to go around - and none of it is logical or entirely predictable.
As a bi-queer in transition I have experienced some fear and prejudice from people who are threatened by my lack of clarity. (Bi is supposedly gay too afraid to commit, and similarly gender-queer). Some people in a trans support group suspected me of being a sexual predator or pervert or something. My identity journey is not about sex for me. I'm so celibate I could be an honest priest if I was not Jewish. Fortunately for me this strain has not been frequent.
I think people experience difficulties no matter what, and it may not be possible to say which group has it worse. It is different for each person.
MY exposure at work to people who are homophobic suggests to me that to the outside world, the mundanes as it were, we are all lumped into a group they do no understand, sometimes fear, and sometimes attack. Trans or gay, we are not them. They think. Mistakenly. At the core we are all human and have similar needs and variable traits.
It help if we could be more clear about our individual experiences, feelings and needs without needing someone else to validate what we know for ourselves. When I am confused, I sometimes look outside for help, and at those times. I feel very vulnerable. I compare to others. If I am not careful I can only see negatives and get very depressed. or judgmental and angry.
I think I am rambling. I appreciate looking at things in different ways, and sometimes I find there is no conclusion.
I am trying to say I think I live in both LGB and T worlds and see connections and differences. I think some individuals from both have it very hard and others have it relatively easy. I think individuals in both groups are capable of prejudice and meaness = and some individuals are capable of great compassion.
I dunno, when I came out to my mom she said that she would rather me be trans than gay....I thought that was interesting.
I think the issue it that most people have a hard time distinguishing 'gender' and 'orientation.' The media does not help. To be honest, I don't even know the difference between the two, but people just do what 'feels' right to them.
Chrissi
Sometimes I feel bitter about being trans.
Sometimes I think queer cis folk have it easy -- I just don't get how anyone could possibly think it matters the slightest who other people sleep with, so I am slightly oblivious to the reality of homophobia. I have a friend who is, like me, a trans lesbian, and she sometimes acts as though she feels the same way. But then I see something that reminds me that homophobia is real.
I'm certainly not bitter toward cis queer folk, at least not in general. The ones I have met have welcomed me with open arms, literally, as in, hugs and all, as well as figuratively.
I kinda feel feel that way sometimes. There aren't very many transgender/transsexual people, whereas being G/L/B is becoming pretty common. For example, my school has a Gay-Straight Alliance club. One of my bi friends is a member. We have PE together, and I was feeling bad because to do a bench press I have to lay down and highlight my boobs :( so I was saying that a Gay-Straight Alliance leaves out trans people like myself, and that it should be an LGBT support group instead. There should be some kind of program for LGBT people to have a seperate PE program if they want to. The T does end up being silent.
On an unrelated note, why is it LGBT? It seems to make more sense in this order: GLBT.
Quote from: The Unforgiven on January 04, 2010, 05:55:59 AM
On an unrelated note, why is it LGBT? It seems to make more sense in this order: GLBT.
I've seen it both ways. I first learned it GLBT but, as a pushy woman, I tend to like it LGBT. :)
- Kate
As a speaker at the TransMarch said a couple of years ago, when she was in the process of calling it 'unpronounceable acronym day' the letters change according to who is more depressed that day.
Nah, not really. (On the bitter part. They definitely have it easier)
I don't care if people have misconceptions about me and I don't exactly want some pity party over me.
"Oh, Kennedy..he has it SO hard!"
No.
Just no.
It's annoying.
Some of those LGB rights people are so annoying that I want to..punch a baby.
I don't want any of those for the transgendered community.
I'm sure there already are, but there's less of them.
You don't need that group anyways, by the way.
If they don't make room for the "t" portion of their acronym, that's their loss for not including you.
When I think it over, it is rather strange to include the Trans as part of the LGB community.
The thing is, 1) I'm sure that there are not nearly as many people who truly identify as this to make their own group and 2) Trans people make LGBs look like saints in "normal", meaning closed minded, peoples minds. The LGBs are helping us pave our own way and I find it all well and dandy if it's helping us. There are however a good number of them who say to hell with us and to get out of their acronym.
So, yeah. Transgender is just not something most people, even the LGBs, think, know, or talk about. Let alone accept.
I did not feel bitter towards them until I started realizing some of the opinions that some LGB have about us. Some honestly believe we transition to gain heteronormative privilege, and no other reason. Reading this was really upsetting to me because that was a community I cared about and was a part of, and even put transition off for a year because I wanted to stay a part of. I'm trying to not get bitter because I know that's not the general opinion they hold and I have gay and lesbian friends who are cool with it but I'm kinda pissed right now. They really think it's easier to be trans than gay.
I know, I know, fighting hate with hate. I have a hard time respecting people who disrespect me though :(
This association came about because in the most general sense all of us are seen to be gender transgressors in some way. That, and the same people that beat, bash, and kill gays, beat bash and kill TG persons also. As the old saying goes The enemy of my enemy is my friend. On top of that, there is/was a large overlap of both common spaces and common ground. So that grouping in the political sense was about mutual interests and common causes, not being the same.
And sure, some LG persons are not real thrilled with us. By the way, you might have notice the opposite occurring in, say, this thread. But for the most part that's select individuals shaking their tiny fist in mock outrage on the internet, and they are not the people participating in public efforts.
If any of you would really get out in these situations you'd find that the worst is sort of a benign neglect, not any sort of outright hostility. And if you really hungout for long enough you might even find a lot of support. I know that when the TransMarch in SF turns up Castro that the bars empty out and there are a lot of gay men out applauding us and cheering us on - giving support and encouragement, and that's pretty real.
But from your basement it might not seem that way.
Quote from: tekla on January 07, 2010, 12:13:44 PM
And sure, some LG persons are not real thrilled with us. By the way, you might have notice the opposite occurring in, say, this thread. But for the most part that's select individuals shaking their tiny fist in mock outrage on the internet, and they are not the people participating in public efforts.
If any of you would really get out in these situations you'd find that the worst is sort of a benign neglect, not any sort of outright hostility. And if you really hungout for long enough you might even find a lot of support. I know that when the TransMarch in SF turns up Castro that the bars empty out and there are a lot of gay men out applauding us and cheering us on - giving support and encouragement, and that's pretty real.
But from your basement it might not seem that way.
Yes, this is true. Those people who thought that way were nobodies on the internet. I need to learn how to just stop trying to educate those unwilling to be educated and not let things bother me so much. It doesn't help that I'm someone who just loves to argue about anything, so I kinda throw fuel to the fire. But yeah, most gays and lesbians I know in real life are not like that at all. I have gone to a couple events and everyone there has been supportive.
I think it really just depends on the person, but when it comes to GLB's or straight people, I would approach with caution regardless.
Chrissi