I have a friend in the UK who plans to have GRS with only the labia, urethra and clitoris constructed. There will be no vagina. Apparently this is called "cosmetic GRS". Does anyone know anything about this? She thinks it will be less invasive and make the recovery quicker and make dialation unnecessary.
Dr. Bellringer does that sort of surgery (for neutrois/gender null peeps)
http://www.bellringers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/grs.htm (http://www.bellringers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/grs.htm)
edit: the only difference is most of the skin tissues are tossed, there is still a "dimple" of a vagina for cosmetic reasons
Well... if you don't have a vagina, then yeah dilation isn't necessary.
A lot of people who are TS talk about how "I've never had sex and I never will" or that they are asexual, etc, etc, and so on. I think it's a huge mistake to go that far and not go all the way, you never know what may happen. But to each her own.
When I first started down this path I wanted only an orchiectomy and a penectomy - just removal of my male parts. I was talking about it to a 70 year-old GG friend and how I don't need a vagina because I will probably never have intercourse. Her reply, which I will never forget, was: "You never know." :)
I'm getting a full GRS and will dilate faithfully. I would hate to have to pass up an opportunity just because I thought it would never happen. After all: You never know. ;D
- Kate
Dr. Bowers would do it but the cost was only a few thousand dollars under the full thing. So like Kate, when the gods grant me the means I will go for the full thing too.
Bow down to the dilation gods.
Post Merge: February 21, 2010, 03:41:32 PM
It is possible for GG women to get cancer of the vagina which requires its' removal. Would they still be women? Further, some GRS patients have failures of the vaginoplasty. One woman on this very board was brave enough to describe her plight from GRS. Are they no less women? Just because it is not the choice you would make doesn't mean it isn't right for another. Sorry, the phrasing and tone used in the prior post seem very "insensitive." It could have been the same arguments used by a prejudiced anti-GRS crusader against all GRS recipients. Gee, lets make jokes and fun of other people!
well, i don't think there's anything wrong with that. i've actually considered that before, but now i've only decided on an orchiectomy, because i don't feel like a tiny penis and scrotum is masculine, or necessary to pay thousands of dollars to change into female genitals. so many transsexuals are highly concerned with their genitals. i wouldn't want to shove a stick up a vagina that doesn't want to be there for the rest of my life.
Post Merge: February 21, 2010, 05:01:42 PM
Quote from: Matilda on February 21, 2010, 04:17:27 PM
Yes, in some some other circles, they call it the "barbie doll" nullification surgery because like with all barbie dolls, there's no vagina. But jokes aside, I wonder about the legalities of it. Once a person has undergone this kind of "GRS", what are they afterward (legally speaking), I mean? Female, still male or something in between?
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how could they be male? some girls are born with a very thick hymen that covers their whole vaginal opening. i don't understand why you need a tunnel inside your labias to be a "real woman."
Quote from: Matilda on February 21, 2010, 05:02:04 PM
Hmmm...if you're referring to my post. I didn't say they were "less women". I asked what they were afterward (in the eyes of the law that is). I think it's a valid question. To be honest, I really don't care what people do to their own bodies since their actions don't affect me in the slightest. But since this is a discussion forum, I have to wonder about the legalities of it (not that it really matters to me personally but someone else may find the information helpful.)
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in my opinion, it shouldn't matter in the law, or even if they just got an orchiectomy, and were making the changes to female. i don't see how you could be male. i would actually find it pretty funny if someone ever said "if you don't have a vagina, you are a man." that would be one heck of a man.
Quote from: K8 on February 21, 2010, 03:29:54 PM
When I first started down this path I wanted only an orchiectomy and a penectomy - just removal of my male parts. I was talking about it to a 70 year-old GG friend and how I don't need a vagina because I will probably never have intercourse. Her reply, which I will never forget, was: "You never know." :)
I'm getting a full GRS and will dilate faithfully. I would hate to have to pass up an opportunity just because I thought it would never happen. After all: You never know. ;D
- Kate
Exactly Kate, when I started out all them years ago I never thought Id be getting married to a wonderful guy who wants a full sexual relationship with me as a woman, you just never know, I can now give him that because Im now all woman.
p
I think it interesting that in at least some jurisdicitons an orchiectomy makes one female. If I can follow the logic, it says that without testicles you are no longer male and therefore are female. Or perhaps you get to choose. A friend of a friend had his testicles removed because they became cancerous. I think he would be horrified to be classified as female now. (He is a gay man and is definitely a man.) Still, the law has its own logic. What I think it should be has no bearing on how it works.
I have no problem with someone wanting their boy bits removed without having a vagina fashioned. I decided against doing that and am happy I had that choice available to me. It is only lately that I've begun to know what I want, so I wouldn't hazard to tell someone else what to do.
- Kate
I have been on hormones for quite a long time, but have not had any surgery. I am almost 60 and about to celebrate 25th anniversary with my wife. We are very happy. Prior to this relationship I had an 8 year relationship as a bottom to a very masculine male, and was lucky enough to have had other strong emotional and physical relationships with males and females. A serial monogamist. In all that time I have wanted to be passable as a woman have breasts and live femininely. I have never fantasized about having a man enter me vaginally. It seems superfluous to me to pay for and go through a longer recovery for something that I would never use, based on my desires and history. To be perfectly honest an orchi seems to be exactly right for me. In fact, anything more would be more to conform to outsiders views, rather than my own. I understand that appearing female, while having a penis, can be a problem in retirement homes. (I'm not that old, but one has to plan-and I am a financial planner) I certainly understand how for others it is the "holy grail" and wouldn't knock their efforts.
As a point, Dr.Reed in Miami does the penectomy without vaginoplasty, but recommends at least a small vagina as it seperates the Labial lips, giving a more natural "look". I do not believe that it leaves one looking like a "barbie doll", although if it did, I might go for it. At least from the hips up. It has been pointed out that her feet are so small, in proportion, that she would fall over. I do not have that problem. She also has no clitoris or labial lips as the original poster mentioned as desired by her friend.
Sorry if I blathered on too long.
I also would prefer a shallow hole, for cosmetic purposes, or.....to hide things in....just kidding!
Yes, I feel the same way as some of you. At the very least I would like an orchi, but I do not see a need for a vagina....so, something in between is for me. But I am not asexual, I would still wish for sexual energy and occasional orgasms, so I wonder how they connect everything without the vagina? I guess just cut, stuff, and sew, huh?
i look at it this way, a male to female transsexual is not a type of man, it's a type of woman regardless of whether you get full srs or not. granted, if i had a vagina and perfectly formed female genitals, i think i would actually like them, but i just don't feel like my genitals are something i really need to like, they are just for expelling urine as far as i'm concerned, and i've never been able to see myself enjoying a man with a vagina more than a penis. nevertheless, i don't like it, but i just see it as another part of my body like my nose or ears. but, like everyone said before, you never know. when all the electrolysis, and hormone therapy is at it's best, i may just want to take that last trek.
I find this incredibly fascinating. But, I don't understand her reasoning. Constructing a vagina is not risk-free, but the surgeons have done thousands of these operations with a pretty high success rate. Why would you want to get that far and not get the vagina? Because you don't want to dilate? I mean, it's not the end of the world.
Quote from: Matilda on February 21, 2010, 05:27:30 PM
True, it shouldn't matter, but is that really the case (legally speaking)?. You see, I don't know. That's why I asked. Heck, more often than not, an orchiectomy is not enough to change your records with the SSA & in some states you can't even change your birth certificate after SRS. I think knowing these things is important. While some people may not care about their legal status as female, male, etc, there's always someone who does.
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Actually, SRS is not the only way to change your gender marker. I changed it after only having an orchidectomy. What is important is the magic words "Irreversible genital surgery". I don't know if my state will change it on my b/c, because I have not filed for it. It is $140 to file for the change. And right now it is not on my immediate 'To Do' list.
Quote from: blackMamba on February 21, 2010, 10:14:22 PM
I find this incredibly fascinating. But, I don't understand her reasoning. Constructing a vagina is not risk-free, but the surgeons have done thousands of these operations with a pretty high success rate. Why would you want to get that far and not get the vagina? Because you don't want to dilate? I mean, it's not the end of the world.
well, that and it costs less and the recovery isn't so bad.
Quote from: NicoleFoxFan on February 21, 2010, 10:33:36 PM
well, that and it costs less and the recovery isn't so bad.
yeah, and its permanent. Once that tissue is removed and discarded, you can't construct a vagina with it. I agree with some of the others, that just in case I might want one of those things later on...
I support her and her decision, it's just not my thing.
I agree, BlackMamba. It isn't the decision that I made, but I will support her decision.
The thing that really tipped it for me was the realization that once I lost my donor tissue it would be harder to create a decent vagina. So in for a penny, in for a pound.
But again: My path is not necessarily your path. The point is to be comfortable with yourself, to be whole, and to be you.
- Kate
Some surgeons feel that not creating a vaginal canal is less risky surgery for patients over 60 with other concurrent medical problems. A lot of people can't afford GRS until they are that old.
i can see both sides of this procedure arguement but tbh i find it verry un nerving.
i want a loving relationship with my partner and for them to enjoy me too, what if you have such a operation only to find the one you love in years to come, what then??
im swwy but i would never gamble my happiness at the last hurdle, im paying for what i feel is the best and that is what i want
Quote from: xsocialworker on February 22, 2010, 09:13:29 AM
Some surgeons feel that not creating a vaginal canal is less risky surgery for patients over 60 with other concurrent medical problems. A lot of people can't afford GRS until they are that old.
Bachelor of Social Work here also. My GRS was in my teens. :)
Quote from: Dianna on February 22, 2010, 09:34:07 AM
Bachelor of Social Work here also. My GRS was in my teens. :)
Can I ask how old you are now and are you employed in the field. Did you encounter job discrimination?
Thanks
This subject has been broached on several occasions, and boy, does it bring out strong feelings. Twice it has brought up references to "barbie doll" grs, when I can't seem to find such a reference when I google it. It seems like a direct slap, and, though I don't have one, took offense. I would agree that someone 24, with little experience probably should keep all options open. But there are many of us that don't suffer from autogynophilia, and have no psychological "desire" for a vagina to affirm our choice or fulfill that psychological need. I have never needed one to take care of a man, and George Clooney aside, cannot imagine the guy who could induce me to have get a vagina. Mentally, my definition of "woman" involves an attitude, walk, talk, how one makes another feel, a certain "je ne se qua." Certainly breast, hair, face, movement are decisive. Vaginas, for me, nevers enters into it. I don't know if the difference stems from a philosophical basis, a mere difference in perspective, or a "true" structural difference in source of our gender identity dysphoria. I don't think either is bad or good, just different.
Quote from: Dianna on February 22, 2010, 09:34:07 AM
Bachelor of Social Work here also. My GRS was in my teens. :)
Some people drive BMWs to highschool, too.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on February 22, 2010, 10:02:47 AM
Twice it has brought up references to "barbie doll" grs, when I can't seem to find such a reference when I google it.
probably because the term was made up on the spot by the poster in question for the shock value. :P
(as if women who had a vaginectomy performed due to cancer aren't women anymore) xD
Quote from: FlanHusky on February 22, 2010, 10:07:50 AM
probably because the term was made up on the spot by the poster in question for the shock value. :P
(as if women who had a vaginectomy performed due to cancer aren't women anymore) xD
'
I like your attitude FlanH. :)
Each to their own I suppose. But personally I would feel that I was being teased by such a procedure, a bit like being allowed to smell the coffee but never to drink it.
Having penetrative vaginal sex with a man is, after all, for me a sublime experience. It may not happen as often as I might like, but personally speaking I can't even imagine how utterly frustrating it would be to go through so much and still not to be able to enjoy that.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on February 22, 2010, 10:02:47 AMBut there are many of us that don't suffer from autogynophilia, and have no psychological "desire" for a vagina to affirm our choice or fulfill that psychological need.
Wanting to have a vagina isn't all about being turned on by it. Many of us see it as another part that women usually have, and therefore that we want for ourselves. Also, there are many of us who greatly enjoy being penetrated, and the ahem, *other* method of penetration isn't quite the same. Has nothing to do with feeling that we're not women if we don't get a vagina.
As for so called " ->-bleeped-<-", I don't understand how that fits in at all. It's not like we're going "oooo I want one of those so I can ********** myself in front of a mirror!!!!"
Quote from: Autumn on February 22, 2010, 10:03:14 AMSome people drive BMWs to highschool, too.
Please. Having an anatomical defect corrected is not even remotely in the same league as driving an expensive car. The latter amounts to nothing more than showing off.
After reading this thread and think about it for a while I sent and email to one of the SRS doctors that I am thinking of using.
He will do it for $16,000 USD. He charges the same thing for stage one of SRS. Stage two is another $4000 USD. So yo would only save $4000. I don't think that it is worth it.
Plus as it has been said, "You never know".
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on February 22, 2010, 10:02:47 AM
But there are many of us that don't suffer from autogynophilia, and have no psychological "desire" for a vagina to affirm our choice or fulfill that psychological need.
I wasn't thinking of ->-bleeped-<- when I read this. But amputation fantasy definitely crossed my mind.
Quote from: nerdychick on February 23, 2010, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: Cindy Stephens
But there are many of us that don't suffer from autogynophilia, and have no psychological "desire" for a vagina to affirm our choice or fulfill that psychological need.
Wanting to have a vagina isn't all about being turned on by it. Many of us see it as another part that women usually have, and therefore that we want for ourselves. Also, there are many of us who greatly enjoy being penetrated, and the ahem, *other* method of penetration isn't quite the same. Has nothing to do with feeling that we're not women if we don't get a vagina.
As for so called " ->-bleeped-<-", I don't understand how that fits in at all. It's not like we're going "oooo I want one of those so I can ********** myself in front of a mirror!!!!"
I agree with Nerdychick. Well said. And please let's not mention " ->-bleeped-<-" around here when referring to GRS. Let's not join bigots like Zucker, Blanchard, Bailey & Co with that kind of notion. Thanks very kindly.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on February 22, 2010, 10:02:47 AM
But there are many of us that don't suffer from autogynophilia, and have no psychological "desire" for a vagina to affirm our choice or fulfill that psychological need.
Forgive me but I would have thought that if anyone would want a cosmetic non functional op it would be someone who suffered from the mythical and in my view non existent condition that you mention. The rest of us want something which actually works properly, precisely because we aren't/weren't doing it just for ourselves, but because we intend to be able to use it in a physical relationship.
I haveto say that autogynophilia has always sounded to me like the sort of gobbledegook terminolgy that a scientist makes up when they are trying to redefine something inconvennient out of existence. In my view Autogynophilia falls in the same category as phlogiston and ether, both of which people once seriously believed in, only to find that they didn't exist, when better science produced a proper explanation of the cause of the observed phenomena.
Cindy, I only settled for the orchie because I do not know when I might get SRS. But I have only seen one that is financial a candidate. And Flan posted it.
But to each their own. If you are happy with your choice then that is all that need be said.
Quote from: Virginia87106 on February 21, 2010, 02:12:58 PM
I have a friend in the UK who plans to have GRS with only the labia, urethra and clitoris constructed. There will be no vagina. .
I have serious doubts about these people being truly transsexual...it's almost as though they are saying they want to be fully pretend women.
Quote from: lilacwoman on February 24, 2010, 01:54:10 PM
I have serious doubts about these people being truly transsexual...it's almost as though they are saying they want to be fully pretend women.
Do you doubt the "authenticity" of non-ops as being transsexual? Or those that just opt for an orchi only? I don't think anyone should challenge the nature of someone's decision that makes them happy, even if it doesn't match your own goals.
~Sarah
Quote from: SarahR on February 24, 2010, 02:10:54 PM
Do you doubt the "authenticity" of non-ops as being transsexual? Or those that just opt for an orchi only? I don't think anyone should challenge the nature of someone's decision that makes them happy, even if it doesn't match your own goals.
~Sarah
being happy to have a pretend vagina and being transsexual may be two different things.
Quote from: lilacwoman on February 24, 2010, 01:54:10 PM
I have serious doubts about these people being truly transsexual...it's almost as though they are saying they want to be fully pretend women.
A reminder, we are a diverse community here at Susan's, please respect each persons' choices as to what is right for them.
thanks!
Z
I second Zythyra's post. Let's tone things down.
Sarah L.
Please re-read Rule 10:
Quote from: Susan on July 27, 2006, 07:45:44 PM
10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason. This includes but is not limited to:
- Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
- Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others
Please remember that we come from a diverse background with different experiences and situations. What one person finds works for them may not be suitable for another.
- Kate
Quote from: lilacwoman on February 24, 2010, 01:54:10 PM
I have serious doubts about these people being truly transsexual...it's almost as though they are saying they want to be fully pretend women.
I know at least 3 people who had vaginoplasty and for various reasons, it closed up. Are they dudes again?
Post Merge: February 24, 2010, 06:46:53 PM
Two more points.
1) Nobody actually posted their results and experiences after having GRS without vaginoplasty.
2) The word woman implies a human being born with a womb and potentially capable of childbearing. By those standards all transsexuals are pretend women. Ceretainly we don't call women who can't carry a child men, but presumably no T-girl could ever carry a child in her womb.
Quote from: xsocialworker on February 24, 2010, 06:41:18 PM
I know at least 3 people who had vaginoplasty and for various reasons, it closed up. Are they dudes again?
Post Merge: February 24, 2010, 06:46:53 PM
Two more points.
1) Nobody actually posted their results and experiences after having GRS without vaginoplasty.
Yes, and more importantly the woman who is requesting this surgery has not spoken here either. This started out as a "friend of a friend" posting. We can only speculate as to her reasoning behind the surgery.
I think this topic is very intriguing and worth discussing. As to whether she is a transsexual, that is for her to decide. If she wants to call herself woman, trans, gender-variant... that's her call. And as someone who is sympathetic towards other transgendered individuals, I would (more than likely) respect her wishes.
But, this person has not stepped forward and said what their motivations are exactly. I for one, would welcome her personal explanation, if anything so I can understand it better. I have to admit I am a tad baffled and hadn't remotely entertained this solution in my path of womanhood.
1) Five years ago, GRS without vaginoplasty was about half the price of full GRS. That would be $10,000 compared to $25,000. and certainly then, next to no health "care" plans covered any of this.
2) In most states, one could change gender markers with the simpler proceedure. I knew of one person who wanted this so she could reside with her children in a women only housing facility. There is a lot more to this, but being at that time so much less expensive , it was an option in preventing the state from taking her children.
3) Holly Boswell, a former writer for Tapestry had a good piece on the health reasons of transitioning without changing one's body.
4) In the Seventies, even being post-op with a vagina could not get one into most feminist organizations.
5) about five years ago, some doctors would not perform GRS on people over 48.
6) I claim I am post-op , but maybe not. Maybe I have had only an orchie, or simpler GRS, or maybe nothing. Does it matter? I'm still a crazy Democrat and politics is in the heart and between the ears. Would this knowledge change my online persona?
7) Western culture associates women with a full head of hair. What does wearing a wig mean if you are post-op? Confusing, isn't it?
For a moment I thought it said "GRS w/out Virginia" and was about to get a bit huffy :icon_burn:
Why leave me out? ???
But then I realized I was mistaken... For who? I'm not sure :icon_suspicious:
Anyway... Carry on
Quote from: Virginia Marie on February 24, 2010, 08:12:51 PM
For a moment I thought it said "GRS w/out Virginia" and was about to get a bit huffy :icon_burn:
Why leave me out? ???
But then I realized I was mistaken... For who? I'm not sure :icon_suspicious:
Anyway... Carry on
Nothing would be complete without you Virginia. You rock!
There are health reason that would warrant not going for the whole thing. I just pray that isn't me.
Even as a lesbian identified trans woman, I couldn't imagine not having a full vagina. Sure, I doubt any man will even insert himself into it, but you don't need to be into men to have use for a vagina. I guess I would just not feel comfortable not having fully functional parts, just wouldn't seem right. But that is just my opinion.
Kat
Veddy intersting. No one seems to have enunciated any reason for the discussed proceedure and it seems that the consensus is that doing nothing is better to GRS without vaginoplasty------so why do you all think surgeons even offer it? Somebody must be buying. Why is it even a topic? In fact, it would appear that doing this is a cop out based on this group. Kinda like a base on balls.
it's an option for people, not everyone can or wants to go all the way (surgery wise). I go my way, others down their own trail. I don't think there is a point in judging others for the decisions based on their life. (since I have enough fun in my own as is to put others under scrutiny)
Quote from: JennyJ on February 25, 2010, 08:32:50 PM
Genetic Women don't have vaginas that close over, we have to maintain them.
Point of order - as someone who has a vagina, is now over 26 years past my original surgery, and as I've pointed out elsewhere, I will assure you that after a couple of years postop the danger of "closing over" largely disappears. I certainly do not have to "maintain" it, although I do have regular penetrative sex.
A surgeon I know feels it is safer for those over 60 who have concurrent medical issues. In Florida, there are lots of late life transitioners as well as a lot of late life everything including 94 years olds driving. As one gets older, often one wants to minimize stress to the body. Also, those transitioning over 60 are used to a life of compromise, so their expectations might be lower. In the group I facilitated for six years, only two people were able to afford GRS of any kind. I have only the highest respect for those who knew their own hearts and had the info, the courage, the money, and the support system to realize their dream before late middle-age. I try not to inject my own situation into this, but I went full-time years before I could afford GRS and I used female locker rooms years before surgery. I do not see surgery as the great divide . I am sure there are those who absolutely disagree and that is their right. If our community sets up a litmus test for being authentic, then we are acting just like the Michigan Womyns Festival who would not let any transwoman in because she was not born with a womb, but now will admit post-ops after years of protests.
I agree that surgery is not the great divide. There are many who can't have surgery for any number of reasons. There are those who don't want it for any number of reasons. (I know of two FTMs who are legally married because one has had surgery and the other not.)
And I really don't think a vagina makes one a woman. The federal and state governments won't change my gender marker while I still have testicles (regardless of the fact they don't function any more), but we're talking about who we are – not what is in our pants.
I'm pre-op and may feel differently after surgery, but since only a select few get to see my genitals and since I have not a single doubt in my mind that I am a woman, I don't see surgery or the extent of surgery as crucial.
Most of us have lived our lives in a box constructed by society and our own interpretation of society's expectations. We are freeing ourselves. Let us be open to others freeing themselves as they see fit.
- Kate
There are many ggs who go through similar issues of not having or not being able to use their vaginas-
QuoteVaginal Agenesis
Vaginal agenesis is primarily a physical abnormality of the vagina which, for some reason, stops developing. It is a birth defect or congenital disorder which technically is called the Mayer-Rokitansky-Kuster-Hauser Syndrome. Typically sufferers have a short vagina of maybe 3.5cm or 1.5" in length, but there might be no vagina at all.
QuoteVaginismus & Dyspareunia
Vaginismus is a distressing condition for both the male and female partners in a relationship. It occurs when involuntary spasms within the woman's pelvic muscles make penetration either very painful or maybe even impossible. However, it is not a result of any genital abnormality nor does it indicate a lack of libido or sexual attraction. Dyspareunia, which is sometimes confused with vaginismus, is pain during or after sexual intercourse. Affecting both men and women, such pains are relatively common particularly in menopausal women.
Both of these conditions require dilation in order to have a fully functioning vagina and of course there are those who choose not to dilate.
Well the penile inversion technique does not fit all and it's fully possible to have penectomy without vaginoplasty and SRS without a "huge dept".
Therefore a small vaginal canal is a good choice for whom are older and don't aim for sex anyway (also because they are happily married).
Me for one will have SRS with no more then 1 1/2 to 2 inches vaginal canal just to make it look as the "real thing" as possible. Because I will not use the penile inversion technique the outcome is far better as well as the op can be made right at the first time (without complications [I hope]) as the surgeon can focus on look instead of creating max dept and width.
I have thought long and hard over the years about having the cosmetic op with no vaginal depth. This would let me pass in changing rooms etc as I do not envisage having a male partner. My only reservation is if a some point in the future I was attracted to a man and needed a vagina for intercourse then it would not be possible.
Susan
Quote from: Susan Dundee on February 27, 2010, 01:49:35 PM
I have thought long and hard over the years about having the cosmetic op with no vaginal depth. This would let me pass in changing rooms etc as I do not envisage having a male partner. My only reservation is if a some point in the future I was attracted to a man and needed a vagina for intercourse then it would not be possible.
Susan
I thought about the same, but lesbinating demands a vajayjay for certain activities, so I figured might as well keep my options open. :P
A cosmetic grs sounds like a perfect thing for me! I was originaly planning an orchi but this would look a lot better. An orchi or cosmetic grs will help me take less medications.
I am 53 and happily married to my wife and have no plans at all to have sex with men.
The other reason for an orchi is to have a flatter appearence "down there", but a cosmetic will do this even better!
I agree, I've always thought that would be good enough for me and maybe an easier and shorter recovery time?
Quote from: Michelle G on September 10, 2015, 12:58:09 AM
I agree, I've always thought that would be good enough for me and maybe an easier and shorter recovery time?
yes it would be shorter recovery, dont think it requires dilation either
Hi All,
I just wanted to say, if this type of operation allows a woman to feel more at one with herself, I think it's a great idea. If and when I ever get to that point, the more options the better. The transgender community is all over the map, why should choice of operations be any different?
Also a question very off topic, but I've never noticed it before this thread. Quite a few posters don't seem to have any statistics or anything under their name. Is this something new or have I not been paying attention.
Take care everyone,
Paige :)
Quote from: Paige on September 10, 2015, 10:13:17 AM
Hi All,
I just wanted to say, if this type of operation allows a woman to feel more at one with herself, I think it's a great idea. If and when I ever get to that point, the more options the better. The transgender community is all over the map, why should choice of operations be any different?
Also a question very off topic, but I've never noticed it before this thread. Quite a few posters don't seem to have any statistics or anything under their name. Is this something new or have I not been paying attention.
Take care everyone,
Paige :)
must have been data lost in a server migration, i thought they were dead accounts, but jenny is still active
Quote from: Paige on September 10, 2015, 10:13:17 AM
Quite a few posters don't seem to have any statistics or anything under their name. Is this something new or have I not been paying attention.
Take care everyone,
Paige :)
They have deleted their accounts, for whatever reason.
hugs
Quote from: Laura_7 on September 10, 2015, 10:33:01 AM
They have deleted their accounts, for whatever reason.
hugs
Quote from: Serenation on September 10, 2015, 10:29:34 AM
must have been data lost in a server migration, i thought they were dead accounts, but jenny is still active
Thanks for the info Laura and Serenation.
Paige :)
Quote from: Serenation on September 10, 2015, 10:29:34 AM
must have been data lost in a server migration, i thought they were dead accounts, but jenny is still active
The account Rejennyrated is written with a capital r ... its another acount...
hugs
I've seriously considered cosmetic GRS. I'm still considering it :). By the time I complete transition, I'll be almost 60, and given that I lost the great love of my life last year, I don't think I'll ever entertain another relationship.
They are deleted accounts, Jenny is here under a new one. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I've been considering this surgery too. Although I don't like that it's called "cosmetic" or "partial" srs. My reasons for doing so is that for one I'm asexual and in an asexual relationship and would remain in asexual relationships even if I wasn't with my current partner. My other major reason is I don't want to dilate and I would like a faster recovery time.
Does anyone have any information on surgeons who actually perform this procedure. I'm looking for someone in the US if possible. I'm not able to have the surgery yet but am just planning ahead.
Cara
Cara
I live in the United Kingdom so not up to speed re the US but imagine it is available there. Dr James Bellringer in London does both the full srs and the 'cosmetic' operation.
Like you if in a relationship whether with a male or female I believe it would be asexual and like you would like a quicker recovery time and avoiding dilation.
Kindest regards
Susan x
Thanks Susan! I wouldn't mind going out of country, it's just if I ever get health insurance that would cover grs I don't think they'd pay to have it done out of country. So, I'd have to pay out of pocket. I'd still love to visit London and other parts of the UK someday though. :)
Dr. Tody Meltzer out of Arizona does SRS without a vaginal vault. Bonus! Cost less as well.
Thank you,
Anne
I will be 68 when I have my GCS in Jan. My surgeon (Dr. Chett.) strongly advised that I consider the cosmetic option. I strongly considered it. I identify as lesbian and thought that perhaps I could make due with just oral gratification if I was fortunate to find a partner. After due consideration though, I elected to opt out of this option. I'll only get one shot at this and one of the other girls on the forum posted that after the surgery, I might find that I felt that I wasn't complete down there and that this could lead to emotional and psychological issues which I would never be able to resolve. Also, if I tire of dilating or find that when I'm 80, sex just wont be a part of the equation and I can stop dilating and let nature take its course. You can ask me how it all turned out in 2027. ;)
When I started my transition, I was not and never had been interested in men. I have always had fantasies being the female in M/F penetrative sex, but the actual guys have always freaked me out.
With HRT and over the years of my transition, the kind of reaction that men show towards me has started to shift from frowning, ridicule and disgust towards ogling and daydreaming while checking me out (pity I haven't had one run into a wall or a signpost because of me, though).
It came as a complete surprise to me how much I like their positive attention.
Now, when I return their gaze, I am very conscious of my new anatomy, what I could do with it, and how that would feel like for them. They can see it in my eyes. It adds so much to my confidence, it gives me a feeling of power I had not known before. I would never give that up.
Thank you so much Anne! I never thought to call it a partial vaginoplasty. 2 nights in the hospital vs 9? Yes please! Lol.
Joi, you should do what is right for you and if that's having the full srs procedure then I say "go for it!" :)
Girl Beyond Doubt, I can definitely understand how that attention must make you feel. I haven't experienced it but I can still imagine it. I just hope you don't ever let anyone force you into something. Take your time and learn what you want. I can definitely see what kind of power you speak of. If I was a cis girl I'd probably be all sorts of powerful. I'd hope I wouldn't abuse it though. Hehe.
So glad to find this topic, I posted a thread about this in the non-binary forum but haven't gotten any responses. This helps a lot. I have always had an aesthetic attraction to men and some butch women but being penetrated is just as unappealing as penetrating. I have experienced the growing attention of men and I like it but I have no impulse to act on it and would not call it sexual attraction. I have identified as an aromantic asexul for years. I mean, I literally hate kissing! Cuddling with a friend is about as far as I would go. I also just need my man bits gone and I don't like the idea of getting pleasure from them. Hrt has made me consider that I may be grey-a or demisexual. I have a decent if undirected libido but all of the sexual fantasies I have ever had involve me performing oral. But that is for my own private time. My question would be if I just had everything removed would I miss the sexual release of masturbation? I never liked that act and always felt it was the biology of the male organ that was driving it. Also, I have ulcerative colitis and may not be a candidate for anything that might disrupt my fragile digestive situation.
I have been thinking of starting with an orchi and seeing how that makes me feel. Baby steps have worked really well for me so far in transition. As this is all about relieving my dysphoria not becoming a woman. I am a woman no matter what, a tomboy who is proud to have lived successfully as a man (against her will) and survived.
There is a doctor at Boston Medical who has just learned the vaginoplasty techniques, a urologist, but I haven't heard of him having an mtf patient yet. He is in network for my insurance. I can get it covered next spring and I figure if he is learning but experienced in orchies and penectomies, which he is, I could be a good person to help him on his way to full procedures.
I would still like to hear from someone who has gone this route. I think I recall such a thread from a sexually active woman here who said she prefers the back door and is perfectly happy. I am not into sex, physically intimate or exclusive relationships but for the right close friend? I am curious I guess.
I am really glad to see that attitudes have changed so much over the last 4 years in regards to this form of GRS. I lived as a gay male for a number of years, using and enjoying what nature had given me to please my partners. My own needs, I took care of myself but did enjoy male attention and physical connection in pleasing them.
The partial appeals to me as I am 64, married to a loving, asexual woman, and lacking most sexual desires. The partial still produces a clitoris with a change in placement of the urinary track. Masturbation and sexual response should be the same as the "regular" GRS. That suits me just fine. I like the fact that the surgery can be done quicker, with much less time under anesthesia. It has been shown that anesthesia can produce or at least contribute to dementia in the older population. Use of HRT is known to do the same thing, and I have been using it for a long time. I am about to have cataract surgery and hormone use is also definitely associated with them. I don't like tempting the fates too much.
The surgeries and drugs we need all have their own well documented risks. What an intelligent person needs to do, in concert with their physician and psychological support people, is determine what a good risk/return balance is. That would have been different at 20 then what it is now after a lot of life experience. Others may end up with a very different calculus. It is just good that there are options for us, and I hope full acceptance in the community for those who chose a slightly different path. Good luck on yours.
Brassard will do this (and he's licensed in the US for insurance purposes), plus the weakening Canadian dollar makes it cheaper than American surgeons. :) Around $14-16K depending on fluctuations, I believe. The result is fully functional in every respect except penetration, and the "cosmetic" aspects are supposedly quite good. I have a friend who wishes she'd gone with this, and quit dilating instead...
Something for everybody to consider. When I had my surgery 33 years ago this option wasn't known so I had the standard surgery even though I knew at the time I was asexual. I have cared for my surgery and it is still functional but it has never been used sexually. Not long ago I discovered I was Demisexual and while I may still not engage in intercourse, I am glad I have the option to do so. This may sound like a good idea now but years down the road, your view of life can change and you may regret the freedom from dilation at a latter date.
Thanks everyone for your replies! :)
Kellam, I know exactly where you're coming from when you talk about how biology was sort of forcing you to do the acts with your male organ. I feel exactly the same way. When I was a kid I was much happier, however when I started puberty and as sexual thoughts entered my head I just felt so helpless because of them and was always super stressed by them. I felt like some sort of demon had taken over me and wasn't able to make friends who were girls as a result because I felt like I needed to keep myself away from people to protect them. I've thought about starting with an orchi too and have done baby steps in my transition as well. However, I'd probably just rather get the whole thing done at this point because I know that I don't want any male plumbing down there.
Cindy, I definitely see your points, especially as someone who's older than I. I think it would be much better for me because it seems safer and exactly what I'm looking for. Good luck to you as well! :)
Jenna, thank you for another recommendation! :) It's good to have options as opposed to just one choice.
Dena, thank you for your concern. I'm not planning on getting the surgery right away it'll probably be at least 3 to 4 years down the road and I will definitely do some more thinking about it. However, I'm fairly certain at this point that dilation is the biggest turn off for me so unless better options come along then this is probably what I'll go with. I very much know that this decision will limit any future sex acts that I may someday perform and I'm ok with that decision and accept full responsibility of it and am very aware of the consequences of this action. I'm very glad to hear you've discovered another part of yourself. ^_^ Hooray for self discovery!
I have actually had intercourse with a cis woman. I played the "man" in a hetero relationship for eight years when I was deep in denial. It took gallons of booze for me to do so. I do not like genitals and don't want contact with anyone's. I am sober now, four and a half years, and don't think my curiosity would last long. I was on a dating site recently to see how I felt and I have now left. Cis men are creepy and I have always been more than a bit intimidated by them. Wouldn't want to be left alone with one, not with intimate contact on his mind. I want all my plumbing gone. I have thought long and hard about this.
That's why I asked about alone time release because that is my only real concern. Will I need it when the man stuff is gone at last? If I can go without it I would prefer it honestly. It would be most acceptable to me to have nothing there. Just a penectomy and orchiectomy, something left to pee out of. Or will they do that with just enough nerve tissue for release minus labia? My problem is I don't ever want to be reminded of the birth stuff, I don't want to see labia and think, scrotum. Also I have heard about the electrolysis one must undergo on that stuff, I am not doing that and there is no discussion to be had on the subject. I do not want sex and I understand and accept the consequences.
Quote from: Lady Curiosity on November 10, 2015, 07:37:46 PM
Kellam, I know exactly where you're coming from when you talk about how biology was sort of forcing you to do the acts with your male organ. I feel exactly the same way. When I was a kid I was much happier, however when I started puberty and as sexual thoughts entered my head I just felt so helpless because of them and was always super stressed by them. I felt like some sort of demon had taken over me and wasn't able to make friends who were girls as a result because I felt like I needed to keep myself away from people to protect them.
This was my exact experience growing up, I even had to be told how to masturbate. When my father told me all I heard was that it would get the erections to go away. That is all I want, for that stuff that always confuses me with its presence to go away.
I don't know if it would be needed. I've thought about a penectomy and orchiectomy both as well. I actually found out about men, who identify as men, who want to undergo those procedures as well. I think they call themselves "smoothies". I played the cis man role in several relationships too. It always made me feel really paranoid as I was constantly worried about pregnancy and it never felt "right" it was so strange for me. I acted upon the urges because that's what my stupid biology was making me do and every time I did I felt worse and worse. I felt like a pervert and a sex addict. I never got pleasure out of any sexual experience. Since I've been on hrt I've not had any need or desire to masturbate in quite some time. It's really nice to not have to feel the need to do that on a daily basis.
Quote from: Lady Curiosity on November 10, 2015, 08:25:44 PM
I don't know if it would be needed. I've thought about a penectomy and orchiectomy both as well. I actually found out about men, who identify as men, who want to undergo those procedures as well. I think they call themselves "smoothies". I played the cis man role in several relationships too. It always made me feel really paranoid as I was constantly worried about pregnancy and it never felt "right" it was so strange for me. I acted upon the urges because that's what my stupid biology was making me do and every time I did I felt worse and worse. I felt like a pervert and a sex addict. I never got pleasure out of any sexual experience. Since I've been on hrt I've not had any need or desire to masturbate in quite some time. It's really nice to not have to feel the need to do that on a daily basis.
Yes again and again on the life story thing. And hrt is magic in that way especially. Although mine still makes the occasional demand. The relief is enormous. it never felt good, like a bad bm. The worst thing for me in my relationship was I was kind of living through her, I was super disassociated from my own existence. She had been my best friend and then I found out she wanted me. So I dated her to keep my friend. I couldn't loose another female friend because all she saw was a man. I was so lonely. The sex always felt like self rape. (I apologize to survivors of sexual assault but that is the best word I have to describe it, it haunts me still) I was not me during the act. Just doing what she wanted. But if I was her I wouldn't want that so it was like watching myself have to go through something that I didn't want to do while doing something I didn't want to do as someone I wasn't.
Quote from: Kellam on November 10, 2015, 08:45:59 PM
Yes again and again on the life story thing. And hrt is magic in that way especially. Although mine still makes the occasional demand. The relief is enormous. it never felt good, like a bad bm. The worst thing for me in my relationship was I was kind of living through her, I was super disassociated from my own existence. She had been my best friend and then I found out she wanted me. So I dated her to keep my friend. I couldn't loose another female friend because all she saw was a man. I was so lonely. The sex always felt like self rape. (I apologize to survivors of sexual assault but that is the best word I have to describe it, it haunts me still) I was not me during the act. Just doing what she wanted. But if I was her I wouldn't want that so it was like watching myself have to go through something that I didn't want to do while doing something I didn't want to do as someone I wasn't.
I was super disassociated too! I still am to a degree. I blocked out all my emotions and was very separate from myself. I always felt others were more "real" than me and I felt like a fake person. I can definitely sympathize on the act and how that made you feel. I usually felt bad afterwards but kind of kept shoving it out of my mind and repressing things. I hope that things have been getting better for you now though. *Hugs*
Kellam : Brassard doesn't require electro, either. (And there's no electro needed for anyone who won't have a vaginal vault constructed, no matter the surgeon.) I respect that you don't want to be reminded of the old parts, but I'll say that I at least have never been - everything looks and feels SO different. Similarly, post-op I find that I'm no longer a slave to the physical need; I can get in the mood if I want to, but I have to *want* to.
Regardless, I think that if you want to eliminate the "need" you're worried about, what you most likely want is to request, at minimum, no clitoris and no penile nerves preserved, as well as no vagina. That should still leave you with something resembling female genitalia if you want to avoid questions in locker rooms and whatnot. But you definitely could try to find someone who'll remove it all and simply relocate the urethra. I think it's more difficult to find a surgeon willing to do that - it shouldn't be, I absolutely agree that it's your body, but the sad truth is that many will balk - versus getting a minimal vulva constructed.
Quote from: Lady Curiosity on November 10, 2015, 09:07:46 PM
I was super disassociated too! I still am to a degree. I blocked out all my emotions and was very separate from myself. I always felt others were more "real" than me and I felt like a fake person. I can definitely sympathize on the act and how that made you feel. I usually felt bad afterwards but kind of kept shoving it out of my mind and repressing things. I hope that things have been getting better for you now though. *Hugs*
Things are way better! I still feel like I am coming out of a fog, but I can see the sun and sky now, only a thin haze remains. I feel grounded in my life, I hope you are happier too! *hugs back*
Quote from: Jenna Marie on November 10, 2015, 09:17:56 PM
Kellam : Brassard doesn't require electro, either. (And there's no electro needed for anyone who won't have a vaginal vault constructed, no matter the surgeon.) I respect that you don't want to be reminded of the old parts, but I'll say that I at least have never been - everything looks and feels SO different. Similarly, post-op I find that I'm no longer a slave to the physical need; I can get in the mood if I want to, but I have to *want* to.
Regardless, I think that if you want to eliminate the "need" you're worried about, what you most likely want is to request, at minimum, no clitoris and no penile nerves preserved, as well as no vagina. That should still leave you with something resembling female genitalia if you want to avoid questions in locker rooms and whatnot. But you definitely could try to find someone who'll remove it all and simply relocate the urethra. I think it's more difficult to find a surgeon willing to do that - it shouldn't be, I absolutely agree that it's your body, but the sad truth is that many will balk - versus getting a minimal vulva constructed.
That is soooo good to know, thanks! It is really good to be able to discuss these things without someone telling me I am crazy and to have that discussion with folks who can fully empathize makes it doubly special. Thanks for the info!
Quote from: Kellam on November 10, 2015, 09:20:07 PM
Things are way better! I feel grounded in my life, I hope you are happier too! *hugs back*
I am much happier now! :) Still working through things but am getting better all the time. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more sometime. :)
Quote from: Lady Curiosity on November 10, 2015, 09:24:17 PM
I am much happier now! :) Still working through things but am getting better all the time. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more sometime. :)
Yay! :D You are so sweet and I may just take you up on that pm offer. I need to log off, charge my device and calm down now though. I have a lot of good stuff to think about, thanks. :)
Quote from: Kellam on November 10, 2015, 09:33:18 PM
Yay! :D You are so sweet and I may just take you up on that pm offer. I need to log off, charge my device and calm down now though. I have a lot of good stuff to think about, thanks. :)
Awww thank you. ^_^ I'll be patiently waiting if you decide to PM. I'm glad that you have good things to think about. Remember to take deep breaths to calm down. Hehe. :)
Well please don't wait. I feel guilty already! I came back because I meant to extend the same offer to you! Please feel free! :D
Regarding hair removal if necessary for vaginal depth, even a very shallow one to make the 'cosmetic' partial vaginoplasty look better. Bear in mind that if you have been on hormones for many years and possibly had an orchidectomy as well that the surgeon will have a LOT less to work with - I speak from personal experience on this. There is always the possibility of laser hair removal rather than electrolysis. Having had extensive electrolysis on my face and also some laser on my face as well as on my hands and arms I can say I would without question opt for laser down 'there'.
Susan
Quote from: Susan Dundee on November 11, 2015, 04:04:26 AM
Regarding hair removal if necessary for vaginal depth, ...... Having had extensive electrolysis on my face and also some laser on my face as well as on my hands and arms I can say I would without question opt for laser down 'there'.
I had a full (normal?) vaginoplasty and I required hair removal for it. I had a mixture of laser and electro (4 high power laser, 13 electro) over a period of some months. I preferred the laser but with plenty of EMLA cream the electro was very tolerable.
Incidentally, all the UK surgeons offer both full and cosmetic vaginaoplasty and they all take private patients. The cost is around £10K ~ $16K and you stay in a hospital, not a hotel or a cottage, for 6 to 7 days.
It isn't pain I was worried about it is having to be awake while someone touches that stuff for an extended period of time. That is a no go situation for me. Not interested. Thankfully this is one situation where I am glad to be in the ginger and blond range. I don't even need to think about laser as I have the wrong hair color. No, getting that done would be humiliating. I will not be doing that. And as I said I don't care what it looks like, the more invisible the end result the better and I think a bit of hair would be helpful to that end.
Waxing on this from a feminist perspective, I think the demand for cosmetic procedures would be less if so much of the world didn't cling to paternalistic ideals of chastity and purity being cardinal female virtues. I can't help but wonder if the creation of a purely aesthetic labia isn't at least partly driven by violence against female sexuality.
In the eyes of a patriarchal society, Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex, and we see in many cultures the mutilation of female genitalia so that women can't enjoy sex. Even in America and Britain, the practice was given scientific justification well into the 20th century by scientists who pathologized female sexuality.
For some, purely aesthetic surgery may be a sound expression of asexuality which is not pathological, but for others it may very well be a psychosocial act of violence against the self from internalized misogyny. I support everyone's right to make an informed consent choice about their treatment but I think some serious soul-searching would be in need for anyone considering this.
Quote from: Rose City Rose on November 12, 2015, 03:13:39 AM
For some, purely aesthetic surgery may be a sound expression of asexuality which is not pathological, but for others it may very well be a psychosocial act of violence against the self from internalized misogyny. I support everyone's right to make an informed consent choice about their treatment but I think some serious soul-searching would be in need for anyone considering this.
I know three people who have taken this option and a fourth who gets it in January. What they all have in common is:
- All are in their mid to late 60s
- None have any interest in sex or a desire to have it
- All wanted the fastest recovery time
- One has a heart condition and wants a faster, less invasive, less stressful surgery
None of them are pathologised by the patriarchy
Speaking for myself I would be perfectly happy with cosmetic GRS if I had the money for it. I'm an asexual romantic and have no real interest in sex. Friendships are more important to me than having a lover and I'm completely content to have my bed to myself and not share it with anyone.
Being non binary I wouldn't be much put out if I had to go to my grave with wart (my penis) still attached to my body. The most important thing that I no longer have T poison in my bloodstream twisting my mind up and is why I think an orchie is the best thing since sliced bread. (Orchies for everyone - Yay!).
In this binary world it would be kind of convenient not to have wart attached to me as I much prefer to use women's spaces and being wartless I wouldn't have to worry about being seen with my knickers off. I used to know a transwoman who'd had the 'op' and I was with her when some jackass decided to tell her she wasn't a woman and she shouldn't be where she was. I soon discovered that she liked to go commando because she immediately lifted her skirt to show the mouthy idiot that she was indeed female. The moment was priceless :laugh:
I'm not likely to do anything like that EVER, but it would be nice to have the moral high ground should I ever be challenged.
Oh and another reason is that at my age (61) and with my health issues I would want a nice simple operation that won't take too much time to heal up and recover from.
I was raised in a very feminist household. My Mom has been actively fighting the feminist fight in her church my whole life. She writes and preaches on the women of the bible. We have always been very close. I do not adhere to patriarchal notions of womanhood either. I never thought she would accept me as her daughter because she wanted to share the miracle of her life giving loins with a daughter. She now proudly and publicly declares that I have taught her that womanhood is not about mere biology but one's very soul.
When I realized that cis rules do not apply to me I was thrilled! Their rules do not apply to my body or my mind and I see no reason to be forced to emulate their bodies via invasive and unnecessary surgery.
Quote from: Kellam on November 11, 2015, 06:21:53 AM
It isn't pain I was worried about it is having to be awake while someone touches that stuff for an extended period of time. That is a no go situation for me. Not interested. Thankfully this is one situation where I am glad to be in the ginger and blond range. I don't even need to think about laser as I have the wrong hair color. No, getting that done would be humiliating. I will not be doing that. And as I said I don't care what it looks like, the more invisible the end result the better and I think a bit of hair would be helpful to that end.
My surgery is 33 years old and was penile inversion, the most common surgery at the time and not a single hair needed to be removed in the lower regions to make the surgery possible. The resulting surgery as given me a 5.5 inch depth and there is no hair in the inside. I had sufficient skin so grafts weren't required but also I had erections up to the day of surgery so the skin was all nice and stretched out.
That is kind of you to share Dena and I hope it helps someone for whom that was a stumbling block. I just don't want any depth so it does not apply to me.
Quote from: Kellam on November 10, 2015, 08:09:32 PM
I have actually had intercourse with a cis woman. I played the "man" in a hetero relationship for eight years when I was deep in denial.... I want all my plumbing gone. I have thought long and hard about this.
I've never been in bed with a girl. But several times a week I also wants plumbing gone. I've manage to disable my erections with something called banding.
Quote from: Kellam on November 10, 2015, 08:09:32 PM
That's why I asked about alone time release because that is my only real concern. Will I need it when the man stuff is gone at last? If I can go without it I would prefer it honestly. It would be most acceptable to me to have nothing there. Just a penectomy and orchiectomy, something left to pee out of. Or will they do that with just enough nerve tissue for release minus labia? My problem is I don't ever want to be reminded of the birth stuff, I don't want to see labia and think, scrotum. Also I have heard about the electrolysis one must undergo on that stuff, I am not doing that and there is no discussion to be had on the subject. I do not want sex and I understand and accept the consequences.
I just want some nerve-ends so that I can masturbate(vibrator/rubbing). But for the rest I don't mind. When I see a female in white undies, with a smooth area I wish it could be me.
Quote from: Lady Curiosity on November 10, 2015, 08:25:44 PM
I've thought about a penectomy and orchiectomy both as well. I actually found out about men, who identify as men, who want to undergo those procedures as well. I think they call themselves "smoothies".
I'm one of them.
I briefly considered this and after VERY careful consideration, I decided that I would go the entire route.
I'm set up for next summer on one of my very good friend's birthday >:-)
No, I didn't mean to commandeer your birthday girl - with my 3rd one (birth, HRT initiation, and GRS) but what can I say, they had an opening - and I took it. ;D
What about thrush & that sort of thing - what's the reality in practice, over a number of years, of full GRS. In my mind one of the main benefits of cosmetic GRS was this being a non-issue. Even some natal-females can experience such issues on a fairly constant basis.