There is a big problem, one of many but perhaps the largest, and that is the costs of transition. Imagine how nice it would be if you didn't have to go into debt. If you didn't have to wait years after the OK to get the results. Some of us have the money or enough but some of us don't, some have none, others barely enough. And this is a big factor. Because it is costly many spend the rest of there lifes in depression having given up hope, others struggle for happyness due to debts....
So whats the solution?
There are enough of us out there and plenty of bright minds perhaps there is a solution we can find and work to.
OK...Thats my attempt at an inspirational speech...more like a insperational memo maybe... ;D
Anyways lets think about this together what are solutions to this problem, and not just for an individual but for the community as a whole.
Are there lawyers amongst us or lawyers friendly to our people, to our cause, that could help us fight the system that allows insurance to excllude us?
Perhaps we could develop our own insurance company only for the transgenders! maybe there are some, if so can we help!
Maybe we could start up half-way-houses for those going through transition. That or some sort of system that can help people find work while transitioning. A system maybe that in itself produces work for only transgender people. A system that connects us transgender people even (maybe we could use a Transbook, or TransSpace to help) A system that connects to people so that people that can help can help and people that need help can get help.
Are there already any activist groups out there that are only transgender oriented?
If not lets start one, I'm for it, I got some time, and i got somewhat of a brain. I need to put it to use doing some activistish stuff.
Funny you mention that, because I have a dream of starting a transition house. Where Transpeople could come and A) have a safe place to live, B) have a sense of family. Now I just need the place to establish it.
This was a topic that came up between Sevan and I the other day.
I would like to come back to this, but for now, please check online for cohousing. There is extensive literature on it. I have been interested from a couple of other financial and demographic angles.
If I were to win the viking lottery, a portion of my money would go into a "Transition Support Fund" of some sort. Something that would be dedicated to support people in need with their transition.
I would probably put it in the hands of a more driven person. Someone who can drive fundraisers better and more often than I can... but ideally, I would like to see it grow, own and operate transition-homes, help people move from countries where they are likely to get killed for existing to countries where they can be safe, and to help pay for things for people who have no chance of affording them themselves.
'Course.. I'd probably bankrupt it in a week... because I'd wanna pay for "everyone's" SRS... :/... I'm not very good at saying "No"
I don't think the insurance company idea would work all that well. They make money by collecting premiums from the people who don't need treatment; it works on the concept that most people will put in more than they take out. If you only insured transpeople (who nearly all need treatments more or less constantly), the premiums would have to be enormous in order to cover the costs of the surgeries, hormones, therapists, etc (never mind the overhead). People would end up paying more to this plan than they would if they had gone for this on their own.
Not that I'm knocking the other ideas, but this one just doesn't fit with how insurance companies operate.
Perhaps some financial investment program like they have for college savings funds. The way I understand it working (and I am far, far from being an expert) is that you deposit funds into an account as they are earned, or for those who have sufficient funds all in advance, and those funds are invested in such a way that the funds are allowed to grow. As the money grows it can be put to use to help fund those who are unable to immediately pay - with the expectation that they commit to supporting the organization in some manner -whether financial or through contributing services.
Deanna
That would be amazing!
It would help me so much, and I could afford therapy,
and Testosterone,
and chest surgery...
That would make my life so much better...
I knew of one of these trans communes. One particular wealthy MTF and her wife started to invite other TS into their home to transition. Eventually they whole thing turned into a giant sex scandal with each of the people agreeing to be "subs" to the "dom" wealthy MTF, with each of the subs convinced to quit their jobs to rely only on the dom.
It was a mess.
I actually had an idea of a hotel, where there could be one or two people per room. With classes rooms on the lower floor, and possible office space for a therapist and/or doctor.
If the gods of fate grant me the ability, then it shall happen.
So, Janet, there would be about 2-3000 rooms? One big happy transitioning family? You would also have to add a mall - gotta go shopping. Health club, maybe a hospital too. :D :D :D
Oh, this could really get out of hand real fast - especially if you put me in charge. Money? what money?
it's nothing a powerball win couldn't fix.
:D
Quote from: Laura Hope on April 07, 2010, 12:50:52 AM
it's nothing a powerball win couldn't fix.
:D
ye, one for each of us.
Communes are pretty great things. Some have lasted for hundreds of years though lots and lots of generations, but they share two things, both of which are in short supply 'round these parts.
1. You need people who are willing to devote themselves to the greater community and its guiding principals above themselves.
2. A strong work ethic capable of producing on-going sustainable subsistence plus a little bit more.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on April 06, 2010, 06:17:24 PM
Funny you mention that, because I have a dream of starting a transition house. Where Transpeople could come and A) have a safe place to live, B) have a sense of family. Now I just need the place to establish it.
Great minds think alike I feel... We have often talked of the possibility doing this on a very small scale at our home and or the other properties that we own in Cornwall. Not exactly a commune. More of an extended family. Problem is finding the right people - it's not like you can put an ad in the local paper, nor indeed will every transperson get on with every other transperson...
We are already private landlords owning at least one other property which we rent out so I guess this would be a rather similar venture in that the first obstacle would be finding a place to advertise where the right transitioners would see it, and second one would then have to find a polite way of intereviewing and referrncing people. Because of course it would be no help to anyone if you ended up with someone who was disruptive or didn't reliably pay their share.
Quote from: Luna! on April 06, 2010, 07:22:05 PM
I don't think the insurance company idea would work all that well. They make money by collecting premiums from the people who don't need treatment; it works on the concept that most people will put in more than they take out. If you only insured transpeople (who nearly all need treatments more or less constantly), the premiums would have to be enormous in order to cover the costs of the surgeries, hormones, therapists, etc (never mind the overhead). People would end up paying more to this plan than they would if they had gone for this on their own.
Not that I'm knocking the other ideas, but this one just doesn't fit with how insurance companies operate.
But this is exactly what we need and is the future. The way you described everyone else paying is how it works! I may never get cancer but pay for others that do.
I actually just went in front of the University Council at the University of Pennsylvania to urge them to consider inclusion of Transsexual related treatments, procedures and surgeries (including 'needed' ffs, etc). They were very receptive. This is something the LGBT center on campus has been working on. The cost per person for our insurance policy is $1 per year per person. Not a huge cost!
Just because one wealthy dom sets up a sex club shouldn't condemn an idea. It merely councils caution. There is a movement in US called "co-housing" that tries to put inter-generational, diverse populations together to form "intentional communities." There are hundreds of these communities across US. Some are very like communes, others place a much greater stress on family units that interact with the whole group. There is no "wealthy dom." Though often there are a great number of rules, worked out by the participants themselves, that form an internal, democratic governance. Cohousing.org has a great overview. It isn't a cult. It tends to stress new communities and that can be quite expensive. Near where I live, several have set up using existing low cost housing. I have resisted because I would prefer moving from the "big city" to a more resort oriented area as well as finding a group of gays/transgendered people. Few things that turn out well are easy. Especially when you are talking about peoples lives and livelihood.
Quote from: Dana Lane on April 07, 2010, 03:06:02 AM
But this is exactly what we need and is the future. The way you described everyone else paying is how it works! I may never get cancer but pay for others that do.
I actually just went in front of the University Council at the University of Pennsylvania to urge them to consider inclusion of Transsexual related treatments, procedures and surgeries (including 'needed' ffs, etc). They were very receptive. This is something the LGBT center on campus has been working on. The cost per person for our insurance policy is $1 per year per person. Not a huge cost!
That's not quite what I was saying. There's nothing wrong with having insurance pay for these things; it's that the original idea was that of an insurance company that
only insures transpeople. There are no 'other' people to get the money from in such a model. Such an organization would be paying out huge amounts of money to every single one of its policyholders, all the time. There's no possible way the company could make enough money to keep itself afloat.
I'm not disagreeing with ordinary insurance companies covering trans-related things; it would be really helpful if they did. That's not what the earlier post was about, though.
I see a more substantial problem, and a couple/few people have indirectly addressed it already (except for Luna!, who is nailing it quite hard).
The answer to a (large) community of people that does not integrate TGs is not a community that does not integrate non-TGs. You aren't going to kick SOs to the curb. You aren't going to forbid "questioning" people, nor will you get rid of them out just because they determine they are not TG. The standard for who is TG is not exactly clear-cut or permanent. I don't think you want to separate yourself from non-TG open-minded friends. There are even TGs who are anti-TG (or at least against some subset of TGs), so it is not as if keeping out the "outsiders" solves the problem of discrimination/intimidation/exclusion/etc.
I propose the idea of something that is both more ambitious and also simpler: Have a community where people across a broad spectrum of factors are accepted and integrated, whether they are a "minority" or not. Race, ethnicity, sex, gender, gender expression, sexual orientation, hair color, height, etc, are not appropriate for discrimination/intimidation/exclusion/etc. Corporations that do business here must also play by the rules we want (including insurance companies needing to provide SRS as appropriate -- unless we take the government-managed route). Such a community in the US might only appeal to 20% of its population, and only 1-in-1000 may be willing to drop what they are doing to go there, but that's 60000 people. It will probably be disproportionately loaded with "minorities" of several types, but that'll provide a little flavor that'll help TGs and others not feel so alone/isolated.
The whole idea is to have a community that makes sure its members are engaged in a fair and supportive way. There are certain challenges, but it provides a reasonably integrated society and still provides the services you want. And I imagine TGs would typically prefer living as their respective genders (as unique as that expression may be, and as bumpy of a road as it has been to get where they want) rather than as TGs.
Somebody would mention something about labels and it would all go to hell.
Quote from: Kaelin on April 08, 2010, 12:29:19 AM
I see a more substantial problem, and a couple/few people have indirectly addressed it already (except for Luna!, who is nailing it quite hard).
The answer to a (large) community of people that does not integrate TGs is not a community that does not integrate non-TGs. You aren't going to kick SOs to the curb. You aren't going to forbid "questioning" people, nor will you get rid of them out just because they determine they are not TG. The standard for who is TG is not exactly clear-cut or permanent. I don't think you want to separate yourself from non-TG open-minded friends. There are even TGs who are anti-TG (or at least against some subset of TGs), so it is not as if keeping out the "outsiders" solves the problem of discrimination/intimidation/exclusion/etc.
I propose the idea of something that is both more ambitious and also simpler: Have a community where people across a broad spectrum of factors are accepted and integrated, whether they are a "minority" or not. Race, ethnicity, sex, gender, gender expression, sexual orientation, hair color, height, etc, are not appropriate for discrimination/intimidation/exclusion/etc. Corporations that do business here must also play by the rules we want (including insurance companies needing to provide SRS as appropriate -- unless we take the government-managed route). Such a community in the US might only appeal to 20% of its population, and only 1-in-1000 may be willing to drop what they are doing to go there, but that's 60000 people. It will probably be disproportionately loaded with "minorities" of several types, but that'll provide a little flavor that'll help TGs and others not feel so alone/isolated.
The whole idea is to have a community that makes sure its members are engaged in a fair and supportive way. There are certain challenges, but it provides a reasonably integrated society and still provides the services you want. And I imagine TGs would typically prefer living as their respective genders (as unique as that expression may be, and as bumpy of a road as it has been to get where they want) rather than as TGs.
We have a large society that can not agree on what is eligible nor ineligible. The sad part being that there will always be some who think themselves better for some reason and in so doing exclude others. We should not need laws to tell us that women can vote or colored people deserve education or whoever deserves whatever. If all people were treated equally, then there would be no need for laws negating bad treatment of others. People as a society will always find a way to exclude some group of being for some arbitrary reason.
It is a good dream and would work in a perfect world, unfortunately that is not the world we live in.
You are right that a list isn't the answer. It really boils down to merit and (in)security. People with insecurity will have a tendency to use bogus criteria for merit in order to inflate their own standing (deliberately or subconsciously). And some insecurity (probably) rests in just about every living person.
Still, it should be easier than a functional [insert group here] commune.
Quote from: Luna! on April 07, 2010, 11:30:52 PM
That's not quite what I was saying. There's nothing wrong with having insurance pay for these things; it's that the original idea was that of an insurance company that only insures transpeople. There are no 'other' people to get the money from in such a model. Such an organization would be paying out huge amounts of money to every single one of its policyholders, all the time. There's no possible way the company could make enough money to keep itself afloat.
I'm not disagreeing with ordinary insurance companies covering trans-related things; it would be really helpful if they did. That's not what the earlier post was about, though.
Oh yea, gotcha. That kind of insurance would not work!
I think Kaelin is on to it. I have been following trends in Gay retirement communities. Typically they are new so they attract a younger 55-62 clientele. There are some specifically designed that way. I have seen interviews with some of the residents who expressed the pleasure in being around similar people, and not having to worry about being ostracized by straights in a typical development. I love the idea of being in a safe environment, at least while at home. Some place to recharge until the business battle tomorrow. My thoughts would be 5-6 houses, communal pool, backyards open to each other with gardens, benches, places to talk, etc. Fencing at front sides of houses to reinforce idea of separateness. A lot of estates are set up with central courtyard type configurations. The ideas are limited only by the mind and it's ability to break out of ingrained stereotypes.
I'd sign up...communities can be a great way to live.
Well if anybody wants to come to Cornwall to stay in a home with large garden, HD cinema, a private swiming pool and two old timers to guide you along a bit I'm sure you know who to PM! (holiday bookings also accepted from our overseas friends...)
I hope you're expecting thousands of house guests... LOL
This ol' gal could def. do with a couple of guides
Quote from: Virginia Marie on April 08, 2010, 05:56:10 PM
I hope you're expecting thousands of house guests... LOL
This ol' gal could def. do with a couple of guides
Well in all seriousness if you fancy a UK holiday the offer is there...
I would be among the ones that you would have to put up with. Done be surprised if you get a call from Heathrow. ;D
Quote from: rejennyrated on April 08, 2010, 05:45:01 PM
Well if anybody wants to come to Cornwall to stay in a home with large garden, HD cinema, a private swiming pool and two old timers to guide you along a bit I'm sure you know who to PM! (holiday bookings also accepted from our overseas friends...)
Sounds tempting...I could do with escaping right now and I don't particularly fancy going to the mad house that is my parents. lol
Quote from: rejennyrated on April 08, 2010, 05:45:01 PM
Well if anybody wants to come to Cornwall to stay in a home with large garden, HD cinema, a private swiming pool and two old timers to guide you along a bit I'm sure you know who to PM! (holiday bookings also accepted from our overseas friends...)
... I might take you up on that...
could use a holiday...
still snow here...
snow kills my back...
-.-
Best time to come is May through Sept...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4009%2F4441309963_7e192b80b6.jpg&hash=14613bb6ff2ea40a9da93aa114955aa47a3f8cf8)
and if you time your visit right you might even spot the odd retired gender pschiatrist or two drinking a G&T around the pool ;) - actually that is true!
The pool is horribly tempting..
I Love to swim but haven't been at the pool here in.. well.. a long while..
Should I be worried that my first thoughts of seeing that picture were "oooh, a vegetable garden!" rather than "wow! a swimming pool"? hehe
Not really Rock-chick. I said the same thing. ;D I could spend days out there tending the garden.
Quote from: Rock_chick on April 09, 2010, 05:00:13 PM
Should I be worried that my first thoughts of seeing that picture were "oooh, a vegetable garden!" rather than "wow! a swimming pool"? hehe
The garden is what struck me first also... LOL
One of my fav. hobbies
I blame my ex...her parents had a huge vegetable garden...there's nothing quite like new potatoes fresh out of the ground.
mmmmmmm po-ta-toes
Funny, I went for the design of the house followed by the pool.
BUMP
anybody interested? I actually have a 6 acre farm but i can only house a few. There are places around the USA especially along appalachia where you can buy land cheap. Back east it rains during summer which is great for gardens. I hated watering out west. Been there done that. I much rather do back east and not to far south or too far north.. I am in central pa and there are good locations near me and i might (might not) sell mine to buy with others if people have a down and good credit.
Just thought i would bump this up again to see what ever happened to this idea not that you need me which you don't. I bought mine with 12k down and payments of 500 a month for 10 yrs..
All of that sound so great. I would help in any way I could I have an xtensive background in consruction with a strong work record. Unfortinitly I dont have the means doing anything on my own im a follower not a leader. Plus I have plenty of cis friends to help.
Unfortinitly I dont have the means doing anything on my own im a follower not a leader.
Actually there is nothing unfortunate about that at all. Must such efforts fail because they are all chief and no Indian as it were.
BUMP BUMP
There are many who get disability incomes or who can work from home and i am sure we can get a groupd of people together to be able to buy something that would be a Transgender commune.. it could allow CD's to come there for events and it could be a place that accepts families. We may have to go south so that its warmer in winter time but i am sure many here want and need a place to go to and know they will never ever get ahead enough to be living stealth and on their own.
REMEMBER THIS ECONOMY WILL LAST A LONG TIME UNTIL THE REST OF THE WORLD COMES UP TO US.
Just start talking if you think you could deal with this kind of community. If you can't or don't want too then please do not post.
COME ON PEOPLE SMILE ON YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
PS: THIS IS A USA / CANADA POTENTIAL COMMUNE
NOTE: I have mine but i am willing to try to help others get theirs
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on April 08, 2010, 10:58:37 AM
I think Kaelin is on to it. I have been following trends in Gay retirement communities. Typically they are new so they attract a younger 55-62 clientele. There are some specifically designed that way. I have seen interviews with some of the residents who expressed the pleasure in being around similar people, and not having to worry about being ostracized by straights in a typical development. I love the idea of being in a safe environment, at least while at home. Some place to recharge until the business battle tomorrow. My thoughts would be 5-6 houses, communal pool, backyards open to each other with gardens, benches, places to talk, etc. Fencing at front sides of houses to reinforce idea of separateness. A lot of estates are set up with central courtyard type configurations. The ideas are limited only by the mind and it's ability to break out of ingrained stereotypes.
This is also my idea with enough space round the homes for much needed privacy from the outside world. Land can be aquired for as little as 800.00 an acre which will support people with gardens etc. Over time it could build more cabins. Many lesbians have lands where they do this.
The idea it to start with older transsexuals living full time with incomes and abilities who start it create it and then slowly allow new people younger and younger as time goes by.
The math is what needs to be calculated so we can figure out what our cost would be to get up and running. We definately want to be out in the country so we have some freedom from zoning codes. there are many places where they have no building codes and we can build what we want.
If you search www.ic.org (http://www.ic.org) you will see many many people are doing this in places around the world.
I would love to help but I have limited money as I am in constrution but I do have skills needed to help.
It would be great to have a place to go through the transition without being beaten up by the cost.
I'm still waiting to hear if my PCT will approve the funding for my transition, if the answer is no then I don't see how I could afford this privately, it's taking so long to get a reply that i'm preparing myself for the worst.
I'm already struggling to make ends meet with my flat & I dont know how i'll find money for transitioning if I have to go private.
If I win tonights lottery of 166 million then i'll buy several houses around the country solely for the use of people going through the transition. . . . don't hold your breath though
I'm not sure that being too far out in the boonies is a good idea either. People need some place to work. I live here in Florida: most inhospitable to anyone sex or gender variant. A British T mentioned to me that in England there are restaurants/bars staffed totally by T's that draw a mostly straight crowd. I have always wondered if it would work here. We have a large British/Canadian tourist population.
I always get a little discouraged when I hear people talk about "perfect worlds" or winning the lottery. That won't happen. My observation is that many of our (t's) problems are really money issues. Transition-lose job-lose girl/boy friend husband or wife-lose ability to afford surgeries of one sort or another-start downward spiral. The news section has a really very dispiriting study on discrimination of trans. Numbers equals power. I understand that a very few seem to transition and maintain their financial health. Most do not.
Imagine 10 people splitting the cost of a voice therapist and practicing together. 10 people spiltting the cost of a swimming pool/garden, patio, etc. Ten sets of eyes to tell you which outfits really don't work. While everyone works for the betterment of the group and ultimately themselves. The Vietnamese came here dirt poor. They have a tradition where they help each other start businesses. Did you ever wonder why virtually every nail salon is stocked by Vietnamese women? Good ones make tons of off the books cash income that they use to finance the next one - run by another relative. They each feel a duty to each other. Not perfect, just a different attitude from "screw you, I want mine" Americanism. As mentioned above, I've noticed lesbians able to engender the same kind of community feeling. American males do not.
I apologize if this is a bit disjointed. I don't propose trying to impose Socialism or any form of communitarianism on all of America. I understand that these ideas would not appeal to many people, and lazy, grifter types would need to be weeded out beforehand. Much like selecting a tenant for an apartment. But at least YOU would have control. Not some 3rd grade educated, moonshine from a mason jar swilling, toothless, snuff dipper who thinks he's goin'ta heaven because at least he ain't no ->-bleeped-<-.
Most people in the 21st century US or Canada are really not interested in living a rural lifestyle based on subsistence agriculture. I would imagine that the percentages are the same in the trans-population.
I don't know I imagen alot of trans like myself would want to live in a safe place with like minded people to watch out and help. Many would work for a goal if it was laid out in a manner that they understand. Do your share and continue to mantain the homes for suport of others. It's like this no one person can do everything but a group can. If you are a garder then that can be your resurce that you bring to the cummunty or maybe you are a plumber then you can help build homes and repair them as needed.
Quote from: tekla on July 12, 2011, 12:38:45 PM
Most people in the 21st century US or Canada are really not interested in living a rural lifestyle based on subsistence agriculture. I would imagine that the percentages are the same in the trans-population.
Yes Tekla i have to agree.. However, with people pushing BUY LOCAL and the bad economy people can get ahead by growing organic food. My little 1/4 acre will provide another 900.00 plus all i can eat and store for spending maybe 100.00 in seeds. Thankfully here on the east coast up here in Pa we get regular rain all summer long to water our gardens. Heck i am even late planting but i will do great. I will rotate my crops so i won't need fertilzer except maybe a 20.00 bag of lime and 30.00 in mulch hay. My garden took me about 36 hours work spread out over 12 hours hoeing rows and 12 hours mulching and 2 hours planting and 4 hours watering because i was late and maybe another 6 hours of etc and then the time to harvest it and sell it. It is organic so its worth more but 800.00 will be a wholesale price.
I should get at least 80 dozen of sweet corn to sell at 2.00 a dozen = 160.00 and 200 lbs of long string bush beans at 50c a lb and 800lbs of red potato's at 50c a lb = 400.00 plus squash, peppers, tomato's, melons, carrots etc = 100.00 so add 160.00 + 100.00 + 400.00 + 100.00 = 760.00 at a low count
But the stores here sell sweet corn for 50c each which is 6.00 a dozen organic and bush beans at 1.00 a lb or more organic and red potato's at 1.00 a lb organic so if i do the stand thing i could make lots more and this was a spur of the moment garden. next yr i will be better prepared.
Also come august i will start winter crops of cauliflower and brocoli and chard to bring in more.
Besides that the sorgum growing around the edges will atract wild birds like turkeys and pheasents for hunting or trapping for meat. Not counting the deer we have. Its a shame i see so many laying off the roads after being hit by trucks. I could probably harvest 1 a day off my main road here within 10 miles each way.
I believe that buying a trailer park (gated) and managing it in a trans or LGBT friendly way would probably be ideal in pseudo metropolitan areas like Northern/ Central California. Probably on suburban outskirts... Just tossing in an idea. If they are maintained they can be very nice, potentially temporary, housing.
I can see where having some sort of group owned house or compound for transitioners. It would be tough because of the diversity of everyones background and I learned quick that just becasue someone else is trans, doesnt make them nice, a good person, smart, kind or anything else. It would be a tough thing to put together, especially if it was self supporting.
some 30 miles or so north of me is a place that might have once been a church camp or something....it has several...not cabins exactly but you could think of them as such...a community hall, and a pound with a fountain in the middle. I used to think if I ever came into money it would be a nice place to buy for retreats and conferences and so forth, but it would surely work for the sort of thing you are thinking of...but i don't really know what the options would be for self-sustaining the place.
I do know it has gone mostly or entirely unused for a decade or more so no idea how the upkeep has been.
but it looks nice from the outside.
Well first things first we woulld need people who have incomes like retirement or disabilities or SSI because we have to start with how much we have together to be able to pay a monthly mortgage. So if you do not have an income you would have to work for the others with an income to be able to pay your way.
I am buying at 500.00 a month for 10 yrs for an old house and 6 acres
Because i am helping my mother i get more to be able to do improvements.
So first things first. What can you afford to invest in a monthly mortgage and is your credit shot or what?
Thats what this discussion needs is figures to put together a way. Otherwise we are all dreaming. Oh i am not dreaming i am doing right now. What can you do?
I want to help but have no saveings or credit, I can bring sevral friends from construction background to help remodel or build and mantain any site that can be found. If this turns to a reality I want in.
http://www.cohousing.org/ (http://www.cohousing.org/)
Thought I would post this link for a a movement that seems to be a good solution for some people. Many people without our problems have a similar feeling of detachment from general society. Co-housing is the building of deliberate, intentional societies. It is really difficult and time consuming to get one going. We have been raised to believe that "going it alone" living in 2400 sq feet of air conditioned, sound proofed, smith and wesson protected isolation is the American dream. The problem is in, to quote George W. Bush, "the vision thing." How do you get a number of people to the same vision, or get at least to some amalgam of ideas that has enough for everyone involved? That is a hard thing to do. Like you CarlieElizabeth, I am in construction. Was at one time a super, and the idea was for you to understand the goal and what was needed. THEN the hard part was getting everyone else to go along. It's hard even when you're paying THEM! Most co-housing texts on start ups talk about how to get input, get peoples wants, dreams, etc. then incorporate them.
bump.... maybe a farm for elderly trans who like to garden ??? hint hint
PS
just curious about what state you are in? I'm in Fl. and currently have health care. Construction isn't doing so well and may have to look for alternatives in health care, and the Governor here made a fortune bilking medicare, now bilking the residents of the state I may have to move back to Mass. I would like to point out that the communitarian ideal in health care has really taken off in both rich and middle class communities. Often called "villages" residents pay a yearly fee to get access to personalized care above and beyond what medicare provides. AARP has had a number of articles on the movement. I mean renting a voice coach. It has to be cheaper to have 2 or 3 people applying for the same service and negotiating price from a position of strength. Costs can be lowered. Maybe even more important is that security increases in proportion to numbers. Easier to single out one defenseless person from the herd, but if the herd reacts in unison-strength.
What is your area like, what does it offer. I believe that there is a market for a safe environment for older trans people. However, it really needs to be fleshed out more than a farm for elderly trans! I have seen some proposals by conservatives for such a place for all gay/trans people, but it would be surrounded by a nice security fence with barbed wire.
My place right now is more situated for very passable trans who can get along with amish and mennonites (by not being out) but if others here wanted to buy in another location i might be open to selling and buying something with more acres in an area that wouldn't mind all kinds of trans as in those who are unpassable..
also i am seeking people who are not into traditional medicine but are into eating right and staying healthy and working hard until they die... it really makes a difference in what medical care people need..
oh i am in central pa in the montain area with farms in the valleys.. all country stuff here with no fast foods etc etc etc we don't even have street lights or red lights
also i won't go south or west due to climate changes coming
(https://www2.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/news/2010/pdsisc-method%3D2-2000-09%2B2030-39%2B2060-69%2B2090-99v2corrected.png)
This is why it is so difficult to get a group together, different requirements. I like traditional medicine, when needed. I really like having insurance too. Some states are better than others in getting and maintaining it. I really need to be near enough to a major metropolitan area for culture. My income will come from some type of retirement finance work. Amish are pretty self contained. Lived in Sarasota, Fl for a while around mennonites. Pretty similar. There is a Dick Butts here in Tampa who has a radio program on WMNF. He is into sustainable living, has a farm, his wife is the extension agent for Hillsboro Co., and has tried to get something similar (not for trans types) going. Seems like a bit of a hard push. Screws up the manicure. People just don't want to work that hard. You might want to try the MNF web site to check him out, just to see if he has any ideas.
Coming from someone who's lived communally, both before and after starting transition, it will work, but inevitably will have problems or fall apart when the numbers get above 10-15.
I don't see how getting a ton of people who require expensive medicines and expensive surgeries is going to make it any easier to get them....
Quote from: Oriah on August 03, 2012, 04:46:27 PM
Coming from someone who's lived communally, both before and after starting transition, it will work, but inevitably will have problems or fall apart when the numbers get above 10-15.
I don't see how getting a ton of people who require expensive medicines and expensive surgeries is going to make it any easier to get them....
Thats not my idea. Mine is just for older and disabled and unemployed trans to share a place to live decently. The unemployed will be employed by those elderly and disabled with incomes from their situations.
The Tasmanian Government is basically broke so I think we could pass the hat around and make an offer for the place. :laugh:
Cindy could offer cheap floggings as a fund raiser. ;D
Karen.
Quote from: Robin. on April 06, 2010, 06:12:18 PM
There is a big problem, one of many but perhaps the largest, and that is the costs of transition. Imagine how nice it would be if you didn't have to go into debt. If you didn't have to wait years after the OK to get the results. Some of us have the money or enough but some of us don't, some have none, others barely enough. And this is a big factor. Because it is costly many spend the rest of there lifes in depression having given up hope, others struggle for happyness due to debts....
So whats the solution?
There are enough of us out there and plenty of bright minds perhaps there is a solution we can find and work to.
OK...Thats my attempt at an inspirational speech...more like a insperational memo maybe... ;D
Anyways lets think about this together what are solutions to this problem, and not just for an individual but for the community as a whole.
Are there lawyers amongst us or lawyers friendly to our people, to our cause, that could help us fight the system that allows insurance to excllude us?
Perhaps we could develop our own insurance company only for the transgenders! maybe there are some, if so can we help!
Maybe we could start up half-way-houses for those going through transition. That or some sort of system that can help people find work while transitioning. A system maybe that in itself produces work for only transgender people. A system that connects us transgender people even (maybe we could use a Transbook, or TransSpace to help) A system that connects to people so that people that can help can help and people that need help can get help.
Are there already any activist groups out there that are only transgender oriented?
If not lets start one, I'm for it, I got some time, and i got somewhat of a brain. I need to put it to use doing some activistish stuff.
Thank you Robin; I think that you've brought up a potentially monumental subject. I sure that I'm even understating when I say there certainly is a need for what you propose. Can the right people take this idea serious enough to at least begin something here?
Even more important than finding the necessary funding for especially a large-scale endeavor in this area is finding the right person(s) to head it. What is required here is a true, resourceful,
visionary—locating this individual or group of people would go a good way toward such a project having the chance of being a large scale success, and ensuring that it would not end up a tacky, messy, embarrassing failure like the one that has been referred to here a few times.
No, this program (etc.) need NOT be totally or widely inclusive. However, in my opinion, an absence of the prejudice, which I've observed in the transgender community, would be most progressive.
It is my belief that ours could be at least one of the major social movements of the early part of this century. Do we have the minds and resources to bring it off? Time will tell.
Transitioning the body does not meet the true needs of our people. Yes it can help people but understanding that we are spiritual beings and we knew or know what we are even before we did one thing. It is that understanding that we need to transcend. My hope is for us to realize way past the superficiality of the exterior body. I am thinking a commune that helps our poor , disabled and elederly. Then from there we can work as one to resolve further issues. Transitioning the body only makes us adjust to societies idea of what gender is for people. We need to transition our bodies hormonal issues so we can get closer to the spirituality of who we are spiritually. Once we have a commune of people caring and sharing for one another and knocking out the hormonal drives we have then we can get to the real business of helping one another to be truly fulfilled. So yes we can help some with the superficiality but if they coose to go and leave us they were never for us. They are lost souls seeking that which will never fulfill them.
I am 14 yrs post op and almost 8 yrs post superficiality. I am celibate and spiritual and i listen to the truth that is us and not the truth that is laid on us by society which has pumped our bodies full with hormones from foods that have distorted our true selves. I can only hope that people here who are past transitioning and eat healthy foods with no hormonal products in them will understand that which i say.
We are transgender people and we knew what we know even before we did one thing. Then so many get all hung up on the superficial and they loose connection to that previous spiritual understanding. Gender is between the ears not the legs.. However hormones that have been placed in our food chains distort the true reality of that saying.
Let us start with caring for our elderly, disabled and poor as they worry not for the superficial as much as those who are young and from wealth. Those will never be a part of this that i describe because they are sold / bought by their positions in life..
There are already a number of gay exclusive retirement communities designed specifically to avoid running into a few "hater" types. They tend to be high amenity, well designed places that are EXPENSIVE to get into and on a monthly maintenance basis. Some retirement places develop small cliques that try to enforce conformity on everyone. Here in Tamp area we have Timber pines (8000 residents) and The Villiages (80,000 residents) of Adult Active environments. Demand is there for exclusive, nonthreatening environments to retire in. I believe both places have varieties of living from single family to condo types.
A smaller community could incorporate as a profitable business, hire the residents, and provide health insurance as a perk of employment. Something like, "The Good Fairies of Tampa Bay," Private living, public name branding. Then provide outside services to community, maybe run an on site gay bar / restaraunt, etc. 15/20 units lived in permanently, 10/15 rentals. Winter visitors pay dearly. If you have it close to tampa, farmers markets are very hot, and growing heritage fruits/veges may be profitable. It is far cheaper to provide one swimming pool, one major landscaped area etc. then to have the typical suburban sprawl.
Unfortunately, you noticed that I didn't speak of poor people. That is a nice, noble idea. If I had more than enough for myself, I wouldn't mind donating. I am still in the stage where providing for my wife and myself is of high importance. If helping someone can be worked into the profit making scheme, then fine, but going broke helps no one. I have a background in business ventures (I have an accounting degree as well as one in construction) and know just how easy it is for someone to go broke. I believe that you really have to look at it as a business, know the market, and do the most that you can with what are probably limited resources. Look for highest and best uses.
I haven't even touched what kind of rules to have. What if one resident likes to bring home a half dozen "rough trade" types on Saturday night for a little PARTY? Cars with boom boxes entering and leaving all night? Thanks, but I'll pass. What if someone wants to leave, who can buy their shares? first refusals? It ain't easy, simple, or even agreeable to some to enforce some sort of rules, based on voting or original documents. But rules are what allow us to not have to kill each other. Check out Cohousing.org for ideas on the issues. It is easy to do crap, hard to do stuff right.
There are diverse communities set up in America that have just people developing a tract of land together with perhaps a community house for weekly get togethers to genuine Socialistic business arraingments. You might check out, also, the history of the Amana corporation or Unida Corp both very successful, socialistic companies (originally) that made their socialist owners rich. I'm not saying that that should be the goal, just that Americans have been brainwashed to believe that such ideas have "never worked." They have, and are now.
Sorry if this is a little bit scatter shot. There is just so much territory that would need to be covered to have any meeting of the minds, let alone everyone agreeing to it. But isn't that often the difference between "hoping, dreams, wouldn't it be nice?" and successful creating a new reality, no matter how small and limited.
The poor youth could help the elderly and disabled and share in their incomes which many times they get government assistence such as SSI or SS or retirement.
Quote from: Amazon D on August 05, 2012, 07:28:46 AM
Transitioning the body does not meet the true needs of our people. Yes it can help people but understanding that we are spiritual beings and we knew or know what we are even before we did one thing. It is that understanding that we need to transcend. My hope is for us to realize way past the superficiality of the exterior body. I am thinking a commune that helps our poor , disabled and elederly. Then from there we can work as one to resolve further issues. Transitioning the body only makes us adjust to societies idea of what gender is for people. We need to transition our bodies hormonal issues so we can get closer to the spirituality of who we are spiritually. Once we have a commune of people caring and sharing for one another and knocking out the hormonal drives we have then we can get to the real business of helping one another to be truly fulfilled. So yes we can help some with the superficiality but if they coose to go and leave us they were never for us. They are lost souls seeking that which will never fulfill them.
I am 14 yrs post op and almost 8 yrs post superficiality. I am celibate and spiritual and i listen to the truth that is us and not the truth that is laid on us by society which has pumped our bodies full with hormones from foods that have distorted our true selves. I can only hope that people here who are past transitioning and eat healthy foods with no hormonal products in them will understand that which i say.
We are transgender people and we knew what we know even before we did one thing. Then so many get all hung up on the superficial and they loose connection to that previous spiritual understanding. Gender is between the ears not the legs.. However hormones that have been placed in our food chains distort the true reality of that saying.
Let us start with caring for our elderly, disabled and poor as they worry not for the superficial as much as those who are young and from wealth. Those will never be a part of this that i describe because they are sold / bought by their positions in life..
Well, I am certainly NOT ultimately arguing against what you say. I furthermore illustrate my comprehension of your contention by stating that I practice meditation for more than an hour
every day and fully understand the concept of (and for the most part, believe in) a collective supreme being. Nonetheless, such wonderful spiritual ideals are far better applied to the human species as a whole.
Where disadvantaged minorities are involved (dare I draw an analogy to African Americans in the early, or at least mid-way, part of the last century) something more tangible and immediate is needed.
Also, from someone who has little sex drive, can we please NOT disavow the physical needs that most of us have as long as we're in this world? Sure, most notions of necessary and appropriate sexual relations likely are the construct of the less evolved; but what of genuine physical warmth and gentle intimacy?
I (and I believe most people) cannot live completely in my own mind—nor do I wish to do so.
No offence, honestly, but can we please not let such hard to obtain nice ideals take us off track of what needs to—and just might—be done in the real world.
Amazon D.
I don't disagree that that that could work, partially. Most TG spectrum people have lived lives with less income than most and therefore will receive less (on average) in retirement. I don't envision my retirement to be one of crushing poverty. I want to be "self-actualizing" as Maslow put it. I am not high end or high maintenance either. I have found that most people who have the money to move, make decisions, and lifestyle changes often have a higher income and educational level. They need a good solid
business plan. "Move here and share you money with poor people.' doesn't seem like a rallying cry that sells. It may well be an excellent management technique, a subtle selling strategy when a project is rolling, but not, perhaps as the basis of a good business plan. If you are going to use any financing, they would want to see that. I hope I don't come across as too profit oriented. I would just like to develop some self supporting system.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on August 06, 2012, 09:56:08 AM
Amazon D.
I don't disagree that that that could work, partially. Most TG spectrum people have lived lives with less income than most and therefore will receive less (on average) in retirement. I don't envision my retirement to be one of crushing poverty. I want to be "self-actualizing" as Maslow put it. I am not high end or high maintenance either. I have found that most people who have the money to move, make decisions, and lifestyle changes often have a higher income and educational level. They need a good solid
business plan. "Move here and share you money with poor people.' doesn't seem like a rallying cry that sells. It may well be an excellent management technique, a subtle selling strategy when a project is rolling, but not, perhaps as the basis of a good business plan. If you are going to use any financing, they would want to see that. I hope I don't come across as too profit oriented. I would just like to develop some self supporting system.
well our youth need jobs and experience. We who are older with incomes can offer them a safe place and our experiences too boot. Many of us who are elderly or disabled would be treated better by our youth who might more easily respect us over the regular public out there. Thats what i would think is so obvious.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on August 06, 2012, 09:56:08 AM
Amazon D.
I don't disagree that that that could work, partially. Most TG spectrum people have lived lives with less income than most and therefore will receive less (on average) in retirement. I don't envision my retirement to be one of crushing poverty. I want to be "self-actualizing" as Maslow put it. I am not high end or high maintenance either. I have found that most people who have the money to move, make decisions, and lifestyle changes often have a higher income and educational level. They need a good solid
business plan. "Move here and share you money with poor people.' doesn't seem like a rallying cry that sells. It may well be an excellent management technique, a subtle selling strategy when a project is rolling, but not, perhaps as the basis of a good business plan. If you are going to use any financing, they would want to see that. I hope I don't come across as too profit oriented. I would just like to develop some self supporting system.
Well, yes that's it: a solid business plan would/should be at the foundation of any workable strategy. "Move here and share you money with poor people" not only is lacking in sales appeal but sounds too much like socialism.
Of course, it's not easy. However, given the educational and affluence (don't take it the wrong way, but I'll also add skill and/or talent) level of the transgender community relative to most other minorities, someone in these circles most have some notion of a business/program model that would be at least self-sustaining, and possibly entirely profitable. This would provide for all of our sisters and brothers in need, including the elderly—whose life experience and wisdom is an unused resource in Western society as a whole.
Again I say what is required here is a true:
visionary(s)—among whose abilities is one to unite various factions. Such individuals come along more often than most would guess.
.
.
16 acres it too little to be an agri viable farm....
Quote from: peky on February 02, 2013, 11:38:59 AM
16 acres it too little to be an agri viable farm....
huh ??? its enough to handle a group of say 20 with food and meat and lumber etc etc
Quote from: Amazon D on February 02, 2013, 12:55:10 PM
huh ??? its enough to handle a group of say 20 with food and meat and lumber etc etc
of course, if all you want is to subsist
works for me.. i spent many many yrs working for society now its time to enjoy life with a few friends and die old .. very very old
Quote from: peky on February 02, 2013, 12:59:51 PM
of course, if all you want is to subsist
I'm not quite sure what you think you will be doing there. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be critical, but even I picked up the lifestyle on offer here.
Frankly, if I were younger and available, I'd be there in a flash. I've seen photos of Amazon's existing place and apart from the bathroom :laugh: it looks idylic.
I suppose Americans want other things, but for me, getting out of the rat race would seem to be priority one!
Here is from people who are doing it, a few facts before you sale your house
sustainable food - people per acre of food (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8zNfiNA-3A#)
Quote from: peky on February 02, 2013, 07:18:29 PM
Here is from people who are doing it, a few facts before you sale your house
peky.
Did you listen to the video?
They said that with a basic diet, one person could live off between 3/4 to 1.5 acres. That's actually quite a good standard when we remember that for several thousand years, people have been living from farming on much smaller fields and without any assistance from such modern notions as fertiliser, nutrition and such.
Now with 6 acres vegetable, 10 acres grazing and 50 acres for wood, I should think a small family could live quite well and have enough to sell surplus for money.
I have no idea what the holiday situation is in that part of the world, but with good preparation and marketing, a decent toilet for a start, holiday renting could make a considerable amount.
But, and here's the down side, WORK. You would need to work hard to get that.
Edit, removed some silly sarcasm. Really sorry, I just didn't WORK hard enough to resist.
Back for a quick apology.
I am totally biased. I live in one of the most over crowded cities in Europe. Most of the parks have been built on. Those that are left are covered by ancient statute. Houses are regularly demolished to build blocks of flats on top.
Kentucky just sounds and looks, well, like heaven.
Yes i can't imagine living where you are with all those people.. i need space myself..
What if you came here and got lost in the woods hint hint hint
Quote from: spacial on February 03, 2013, 05:48:50 AM
peky.
Did you listen to the video?
They said that with a basic diet, one person could live off between 3/4 to 1.5 acres. That's actually quite a good standard when we remember that for several thousand years, people have been living from farming on much smaller fields and without any assistance from such modern notions as fertiliser, nutrition and such.
Now with 6 acres vegetable, 10 acres grazing and 50 acres for wood, I should think a small family could live quite well and have enough to sell surplus for money.
I have no idea what the holiday situation is in that part of the world, but with good preparation and marketing, a decent toilet for a start, holiday renting could make a considerable amount.
But, and here's the down side, WORK. You would need to work hard to get that.
Edit, removed some silly sarcasm. Really sorry, I just didn't WORK hard enough to resist.
You forget that you would still have to have some sort of health care, clothing, etc, etc.. and thus your productivity would have to include some surplus to barter or slae for other goods.
As a reality check how many of those other 20 TG Farmers really have any experience in agriculture and animal husbandry?
I am not saying it is no possible to do it but you need more land, and you would need and operational capital for machinery, seeds, animals, vet care, moving the products, health care, clothing, consumables, and a rather large amount of food to eat until the famr begins to produce...and then there is the human capital..you need to train your farmers....
Yes it can be done but you will need not only the $ 200K for the land but probably another 400K to operate for the first 3 years
Quote from: peky on February 03, 2013, 11:03:58 AM
You forget that you would still have to have some sort of health care, clothing, etc, etc.. and thus your productivity would have to include some surplus to barter or slae for other goods.
As a reality check how many of those other 20 TG Farmers really have any experience in agriculture and animal husbandry?
I am not saying it is no possible to do it but you need more land, and you would need and operational capital for machinery, seeds, animals, vet care, moving the products, health care, clothing, consumables, and a rather large amount of food to eat until the famr begins to produce...and then there is the human capital..you need to train your farmers....
Yes it can be done but you will need not only the $ 200K for the land but probably another 400K to operate for the first 3 years
wow you want all the luxuries of life huh.. not me if i get a toothache i pack my gums with salt in tissue.. If i break a leg i tie it up with some straps and wood and hobble on.. as for food i can grow enough food on that 5 acres to feed 20 people the first yr..
nahh your thinking a bunch of prissy sisies and i am thinking some tough guys or amazons who can poop in a bucket and compost it and wipe their butt with newspaper.. sheesh pecky your a city slicker :o
I thought I would throw my expertise into the pot. I would love something like this. I may be a girl on the inside and only 20 but my skills with computers and technology surpasses that of even my college tutor. In fact, I wrote tutorials for my teacher to use when it came to computers. I learn very quicky, can setup wiring and electricals without a problem. I'm also pretty handy with numbers and am experienced in accounting and finance. If there is a chance this could get off the ground, throw me a line and I'll hook on straight away. ;-)
Quote from: peky on February 03, 2013, 11:03:58 AM
You forget that you would still have to have some sort of health care, clothing, etc, etc.. and thus your productivity would have to include some surplus to barter or slae for other goods.
As a reality check how many of those other 20 TG Farmers really have any experience in agriculture and animal husbandry?
I am not saying it is no possible to do it but you need more land, and you would need and operational capital for machinery, seeds, animals, vet care, moving the products, health care, clothing, consumables, and a rather large amount of food to eat until the famr begins to produce...and then there is the human capital..you need to train your farmers....
Yes it can be done but you will need not only the $ 200K for the land but probably another 400K to operate for the first 3 years
I doubt there will be any Malls either!
Sorry peky, but every word you've written, doesn't surprise me at all. Though, inspite of that, it's still hilariously funny. I can see you, some how as Eva Gabor in the 60s TV show, Greenacres, eventually settling down!!
Quote from: Amazon D on February 03, 2013, 12:03:45 PM
well first i need someone with some more monthly income or downpayment money to buy this place
You know something, you're probably the best ourdoors woodswoman around and a pretty mean farmer as well, but you really need to work on that presentation.
Sit down and work out every aspect. How much capital needs to be injected.
What the prospects are for a single person or several.
What sort of knowledge and study someone reasonably needs to start. Some idea of what they will need to get past the first year or so.
What facilities, amenities and such are available now. Communication, roads, power, water, refuse disposal, local laws, neighbours and such. How much help is there in an emergency?
What you are proposing is a life time committment. Something which, with some imagination and ambition, could become very impressive, but in any case, anyone thinking about it will need to know what is there now and what is likely to be there soon.
As I said, if I could, I'd jump at it. But before I did, these are the sort of points I would want to understand.
Quote from: spacial on February 03, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
You know something, you're probably the best ourdoors woodswoman around and a pretty mean farmer as well, but you really need to work on that presentation.
Sit down and work out every aspect. How much capital needs to be injected.
What the prospects are for a single person or several.
What sort of knowledge and study someone reasonably needs to start. Some idea of what they will need to get past the first year or so.
What facilities, amenities and such are available now. Communication, roads, power, water, refuse disposal, local laws, neighbours and such. How much help is there in an emergency?
What you are proposing is a life time committment. Something which, with some imagination and ambition, could become very impressive, but in any case, anyone thinking about it will need to know what is there now and what is likely to be there soon.
As I said, if I could, I'd jump at it. But before I did, these are the sort of points I would want to understand.
Yes! Most people are very much stuck on modern appliances. You may have no problem spending the rest of your days using an outhouse and living without electricity, but the people that would go there probably would have a problem with it. The farm needs to be capable of generating its own income to pay for the things you can't get off the land. And knowing how much of a struggle it is to make ends meet for the local farmers around me, it's not an easy task, especially with a bunch of people that have no prior experience in it. I do commend you for the effort and hope it works out though.
Oh and I forgot to ask. Why is the land so cheap? I'm sure the land is cheaper in KY than it is here, but that seems awfully low for 300 acres that's not just land, even for the country. My house is in the country and it costs about $100,000 for 10 acres with no house. I'd seriously check into how this cost compares to other land in the area first and foremost. It could be that you're not allowed to develop the land, maybe it has poor drainage, maybe there's protected wildlife on it, gun ranges nearby, less than friendly neighbors, etc.
SPACIAL thats your job sheesh
emily see the little world under my picture ..
click it and see what i can do or have done
Quote from: Amazon D on February 03, 2013, 01:32:13 PM
emily see the little world under my picture ..
click it and see what i can do or have done
That does sound very cool, so again. Hope you're able to make it work.
Mom is too old to make this move so no move for me now