I'm not full time yet nor do I go out presenting as a female yet not done so for a long time and never with pepole who know me but I'm getting the itch to go... But I still see lots of male in the mirror which puts me off the idea, Friends and family and associates certainly don't see me as female not been mistaken for female for a long time.
There are two things that in my mind obstruct my passing... 1st Facial hair but I'm already railing on that Lasers needles and HRT I'm also training my voice during this time so I should have least some of that be ready sorta by mid to late summer which I can wait around for.
The other things that really upsets me these days is my forehead... I think I have alot of brow bossing.
My situation is such that I can't afford or save up money for FFS I also would find it hard to find a 1 month recuperation period Things in my life are implacable with there time demands. It'd be more than a year and a half. ;_;
So! I'm going to ask for an outside opinion because I might have a negative affirmation bias firstly is my face as bad and unpassable as I think it is in my mind? ... is it just my forehead that's a problem? please be honest. And please feel welcome to help with other suggestions to help with my presentation.
This is how I look today and how my friends and family have see me.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/items/image_sb_1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/items/image_sb_1.jpg)
This is my face in profile so you can see the nasty bulge
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/items/image_sb_3.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/items/image_sb_3.jpg)
concealing the forehead stopgap options!
1: Wear my glasses... This is what I used to do when I was younger and cross-dressed and skipped out into the night alone presenting as a female I was often seen as female back then despite a few unpleasant comments. :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/meeex2.png (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/meeex2.png)
I was about 17 here and still making a few silly experimental errors Black bra white top tsktsktsk (but it's alot better than my first forays oh man those are funny maybe I will show you another time. :P)
2: Cut myself a fringe... I haven't had one of these for a VERY very long time... but I have found a rather embarrassing photo of a depressed 15 year old who's 12 year old sister jumped out with her new digital camera for a snap of her blue big brother.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/items/Blue2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Darkphantom/items/Blue2.jpg)
Do you think such a fringe would suit me now or would it look terrible?... It draws alot of attention to your nose and jaw... Which in my mind are... Okay not brilliant but I guess they are better than the forehead.
Hi Pebbles,
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I can definately see the changes from your earlier pics.
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I think you just need to give HRT a bit more time. It hasn't been that long yet. See where it takes you.
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I think you're right about the brow bossing being your most challenging feature. It's not a deal-breaker, you just have to accentuate all the rest of the positives. Other than the bossing, I don't think there are any other aspects of your face that are very masculine.
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Regarding the hair, I'd be careful about the fringe. It's probably best to get a hair cut that accentuates the rest of your face...draw out the positives (generally with an oval face, I think they say to accentuate the cheeks and chin) Fringe at a certain length could either draw attention to that feature, or make it look like you're trying to cover it up if you overdo it by making it too thick. I wish I had better advice for you on that...my hair is pretty much in the same boat...needs a bit more shape to it.
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In general, you appear pretty androgynous. Long hair...but not cut into a particularly feminine style. Clean brows, but no definite shape. Dark clothing that's a bit hard to make out in the pics, but if I had to say which way the clothing leaned, I'd have to say toward the masculine. Nothing that loudly screams "man"...but it doesn't really say "woman" yet either. In all honesty, all-together, it reads as "androgynous boy." Sorry, I don't mean to offend.
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On the up-side, it's not a matter of one thing, or a matter of a feature that is impossible to overcome...it's a lot of subtle things that add up to that perception. (HRT will gradually help over time as well.) And all of those subtle things can be worked with. In other words, you've got a good canvas to start from...why don't you try your hand at painting a little? ;)
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Good luck,
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Kay
Thick rimmed girl's 'emo' glasses would help conceal and draw attention away from your forehead. They'd also break up the length of your face.
Smile! Men are typically the ones who walk around with poker-faces. Find a lipstick or gloss that suits your colouring to help accentuate your mouth, as it's a very feminine feature on you. Smiling or simply keeping your lips parted will shorten the gap between your upper lip and nose, which is a male marker (the distance is greater on men).
Lastly, get your hair styled. Speak to a friendly hairdresser and explain your situation. You'll be amazed at how accommodating some people will be. Espcially the more alternative salons.
Other than the obvious facial hair shadow, you look like a typical Calif. beach girl that needs to either get more sun or do her hair again.
Other than that, you look great
Sorry, no sugar coating... Just being honest because I see potential there
Where's the make-up!? :laugh:
Even just a little bit can go a long way, trust me on this one :P. My "simple look" is eye-liner along/near the tear-ducts (above the lower eye-lashes, use an eye-liner pencil), some people don't like getting that close to their eye though. Light amounts of concealer. I also use lip stain, very light stuff and it lasts a long time. I'm terrible (or maybe just impatient :laugh:) at using eye-shadow, and liquid eye-liner, the above stuff is really easy.
Otherwise I'm gonna have to agree Kay, you look pretty androgynous. Which isn't necessarily bad, could be a lot worse :P. I think with some effort you can make a big difference in making yourself "passable".
I agree...try a little makeup.
Is your goal to actually pass or do you just want to be able to actually express yourself in public? I don't totally pass but need to be myself so I present as female 24/7. I also live in a very diverse setting which helps.
If it bothers you a brow ridge reduction may be an option in the future... but yes in general you do "pass" - and a fair bit better than some that I've seen. Personally I don't think the "bulge" is that noticable unless you are really looking for it. Like others said, specs may also be a way to conceal it too.
Electrolysis should be your first concern for now. If you remove any traces of facial hair you will do just fine as you are.
Over all I would say you do very well. :)
you're fine as you are...forget brow ops...and get out to your local clubs where other crossgnederd people go to see how well you stack up against all the others...family and friends will tell you the worst cos they don't want you to transition.
and don't fall into same trap as lots of others:
you look in a mirror and see the male bits...look at the female bits instead.
get the hair cut to a nice jaw length so it won't look so stringy and male.
I think you look fine. You should get a eyebrow wax and shape your eyebrows to look more feminine that would really shape your face. Your hair looks good, I don't think you need FFS. give the HRT some time to work.
Yeah - just to clarify - I certainly did not mean to imply that I think you need any FFS - because I don't.
Like I said I've seen far far worse. I was just mentioning it, because ultimately some people do get hung up on something which no one else notices but which to them becomes a huge sticking point... and if that becomes the case for you then the option exists, but no one should criticise you either way.
If you are asking my opinion I wouldn't bother. Just do the electrolysis get a nice hair style and leave it at that.
My mother has more brow bossing than you.
Get rid of that beard shadow and you will pass if you want to, easy.
Thank you everyone for what I feel are extremely kind words more than I deserve I think, I will think about what you all said I promise I won't bother you with my vain narcissism again, It's nice to hear that at least some don't think it's a huge problem. :D
The NHS gave me a Pamphlet about begin trans and it said (carry yourself with confidence then your already 50% done with passing)
I know my facial hair is a problem it was abnormally thick I've not even seen another male with as much as I had when I started... what I've got now is less than 40% of what it was when I started it basically regenerated itself all the way back even from electro+IPL after I nearly cleared it last November which was mortifying... hopefully now with HRT+Laser+Electro it will stay dead this time,
It WILL die even if I have to kill it 13 times like a time lord it will die.
I may get layers put into my hair to give it some shape, I need to get the ends trimmed definitely while i'm at it. I might get a change of colour too but I will have to think about what I want in that regards... I don't have to wash it anywhere near as much with no T greasing it up, so I have many more options
But I'm not going to cut it that short however lilac I'm happy with it longer :P
I'm not a huge fan of makeup and I'm very bad at applying it I make such a mess of myself, but your right alittle couldn't hurt from time to time.
Good suggestion with the eyebrows but my brows sit quite low and they conceal a scar... although I pluck them alittle I'm nervous about messing up there shape so I'm doing that slowly :P
And I need new glasses anyway I broke my last pair months ago (sat on them) I will have a look at thick rimmed glasses, see if I can live with them. it maybe abit... Jo90 ubergeek for me to live with day to day but yeah I think it would help... If nothing then I can read at a distance again and I get the psychological sensation of wearing something that I feel hides my deficiency.
Quote from: pebbles on April 08, 2010, 01:37:28 PM
I may get layers put into my hair to give it some shape, I need to get the ends trimmed definitely while i'm at it. I might get a change of colour too but I will have to think about what I want in that regards... I don't have to wash it anywhere near as much with no T greasing it up, so I have many more options
But I'm not going to cut it that short however lilac I'm happy with it longer :P
I'm not a huge fan of makeup and I'm very bad at applying it I make such a mess of myself, but your right alittle couldn't hurt from time to time.
Good suggestion with the eyebrows but my brows sit quite low and they conceal a scar... although I pluck them alittle I'm nervous about messing up there shape so I'm doing that slowly :P
Yes, your hair now is very like 70's groupie kinda hair do :-\. You need some color and some bounce & volume in your hair.
Def re think the eyebrows a lil shape would really change your face.
Oh and makeup should be your new friend :o. you need a lil color in your face. that and it would hide the shadows.
Most of the advice has been very good. I want to reiterate one very important thing: SMILE! It really does help. I believe this is one of the reasons people stop passing as frequently when they don't feel good about themselves. And the bonus is- smiling makes you feel happy, even if you are just faking it at first :).
http://www.howstuffworks.com/human-nature/emotions/happiness/science/smiling-happy.htm/printable (http://www.howstuffworks.com/human-nature/emotions/happiness/science/smiling-happy.htm/printable)
In fact, it would take a very long list to describe all the benefits you will realize in your life from simply squeezing a few muscles in your face.
I'd say the only thing that pops out to me is the chin area (as well as slight remnants of facial hair but you're working on that I gather). Not sure what you can do about the chin thing other than surgery at some point. Maybe multi-stage FFS is a better plan for you than trying to get it done all at once?
Also, someone else commented about 'thick rimmed emo girl glasses' and while I don't think you need to go quite that far, dark, not-thin-rimmed glasses really do help. I got 'new' glasses a couple months ago, I think they're technically men's glasses but I picked ones as androgynous as I could find, with dark brown rims maybe 1/8 inch thick, and they do wonders do obscure the whole prominent brow/nose thing that I have on my face for now :P.
Hair looks great by the way :).
Let hormones do their thing for a while before even considering FFS. HRT has noticeably changed the structure of my face, and you do have the advantage of youth over me :).
YMMV of course, but it would be wise to wait and see how it actually affects you first.
Quote from: Jen on April 08, 2010, 04:10:39 PM
Let hormones do their thing for a while before even considering FFS. HRT has noticeably changed the structure of my face, and you do have the advantage of youth over me :).
YMMV of course, but it would be wise to wait and see how it actually affects you first.
Yeah, I totally agree, wait for a while and a while means years, 2-3. I've been on HRT for two years and its only this past month that I feel confident in my looks and see a female face (others might not agree but so what). I thought I needed ffs two/three years ago, now I'm not so sure, but perhaps still some nose work. So in answer, a little makeup and a whole lot of time.
Stardust
I would have to agree with the "Let HRT take it's coarse" school of thought
You are rather well along and have some rather nice features
Okay, you need another round of electro and a bit of lipstick and eye liner wouldn't hurt
But I would go with the "frameless" clear glasses. Much more up to date... Yes I wear glasses also
And no more beating yourself up... There is nothing vain or narcissistic about asking for an opinion and/or a constructive critique
{{{HUGS}}}
You pass kind of well, but more of the Velma type from Scooby Doo.
Smiling poofs your cheeks
Fatter cheeks = girl
Smiling makes you pass. You don't even have to show teeth.
(To help lessen the blow of having to smile.)
I've sort of retrained the muscle in my face to keep a more persistent smile going... it doesn't really look like a smile in the mouth but it makes my cheeks more defined.
Quote from: Megan on April 08, 2010, 10:35:11 PM
You pass kind of well, but more of the Velma type from Scooby Doo.
Hey that could be seen as a good thing ya know... Apparently according to the internet Velma Dinkley is extremely appealing to for guys with alternate tastes of sex appeal and her whole design is infact a scaffold for the authors to stick their own fetishes onto... But they were not alone others picked up on it.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Meganekko (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Meganekko)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZettaiRyouiki (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZettaiRyouiki)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SweaterGirl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SweaterGirl)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061029002012AAwKh52 (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061029002012AAwKh52)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NerdsAreSexy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NerdsAreSexy)
I had no idea but yeah look at the internet and there are whole websites devoted to this stuff.
I know that me smiling helps me pass it makes my eyebrows go up & arch thus they become a female cue, But I can only smile so much before my face becomes tired!
Hey - no imposters please - I am Velma! ;)
I agree with whoever said thick rimmed glasses probably would look really cute. That and some make up and you'll be set. You don't need a lot of makeup, but just a little bit will help a ton. That's true of every girl too.
Quote from: stardust on April 08, 2010, 07:08:34 PM
Yeah, I totally agree, wait for a while and a while means years, 2-3. I've been on HRT for two years and its only this past month that I feel confident in my looks and see a female face (others might not agree but so what). I thought I needed ffs two/three years ago, now I'm not so sure, but perhaps still some nose work. So in answer, a little makeup and a whole lot of time.
Stardust
You look amazing stardust and not many of us look the way you do or have the same sort of female physical development. It is a struggle with many of us and I would feel very confident if I looked half as good as you do!
If "passing" is the determining factor in being "out", I say rethink. Existing by living a life that fits ''you, the person" is your best hope of being at peace, regardless of what sex the world perceives you to be. I speak this as one who only marginally passes, and learned everything I could to perfect my look with the 'assembly' god gave me. 5 years after the beginning of my transition, I look a whole lot better and learned to take the abuse of crappy people with style and grace.
Advice from others is very helpful, as is gaining confidence through the support of others, but ultimately it is our own choice to become at peace with our own bodies when we look in the mirror. Even a gorgous supermodel must learn to accept her flaws. :-*
Quote from: VTkelly on April 10, 2010, 06:22:45 PM
If "passing" is the determining factor in being "out", I say rethink. Existing by living a life that fits ''you, the person" is your best hope of being at peace, regardless of what sex the world perceives you to be. I speak this as one who only marginally passes, and learned everything I could to perfect my look with the 'assembly' god gave me. 5 years after the beginning of my transition, I look a whole lot better and learned to take the abuse of crappy people with style and grace.
Advice from others is very helpful, as is gaining confidence through the support of others, but ultimately it is our own choice to become at peace with our own bodies when we look in the mirror. Even a gorgous supermodel must learn to accept her flaws. :-*
An interesting sentiment but what if me the person dosen't want to attract that kind of attention or wear my condition impersonally on my sleeve for everyone in the world to see, or feels empathy shares the discomfort of others if they are uncomfortable talking to me,
What if my dysphora also extends into these social aspects of my life? How can I expect them to treat me a certain way if I make no effort at all to ease there own perceptions
If it's wrong for me to want to look and project the appearance of a reasonably normal approachable person when walking down the street then I guess I'm just a terrible shallow person.
I can totally appreciate and respect your concerns and careful considerations. Here's a slice of my life:
I work full time as a licensed professional electrician. AND have sufficient features to be 'read' without much effort. One of my major clients is one of the nations largest restaurant franchisers. They were my client long before I transitioned (and believe me, I was scared as hell that I wouldn't be able to keep them!) I spend much time in the field, servicing their electrical, voice, data, POS and communication systems. When I walk into one of their establishments, I put on my confident face, and act like I own the joint. I must also be very friendly, personable, and disarming in my interaction with them. Within minutes they must know that I am a regular person, and will treat them with the same respect I receive. Though my "trans-ness" is worn on my sleeve by lack of option, I have little trouble. Even in those instances where I do get 'the look', 'the stare', the uneasy caution, or worse yet, some smart comments or snickers, I handle them with an apparent comfort, sometimes going out of my way to show them I'm really ok. It took years of practice. It took swallowing alot of pride and sometimes anger. It took many, many times of having my blood swirling as I walked onto the job. And at the end of the day, I also knew I was better than any person who would judge me without a right to.
I share these things with you because I feel as though you seem ready to let society force you into hiding yourself... which is truly unfair. On the flip side, I can respect that we all do what we need to to save ourselves from destruction... and time will determine to what extent your feminine being will be visible in order to be at peace with yourself, NOT the world around you. Dealing with the sh**heads of the world is an art we refine each day. ;)
Post Merge: April 10, 2010, 09:02:23 PM
p.s., I also dress like the cutest electrician you'll ever meet, even at age 45. Who says we can't wear black stretchy scoop neck tee's, trendy jeans, and skechers chunky heeled work boots? ;D
Quote from: VTkelly on April 10, 2010, 06:22:45 PM
If "passing" is the determining factor in being "out", I say rethink. Existing by living a life that fits ''you, the person" is your best hope of being at peace, regardless of what sex the world perceives you to be.
I'll never agree with that kind of statement!
I understand the sentiment Kelly is expressing, and I think it's a good one.
Most of us want to pass. We want to have some sort of normalcy to our lives. We don't want to be the butt of jokes and derision on a constant daily basis. We just want to live our lives free of harassment.
Some of us are lucky. We either start young. Or have rather exceptional results on HRT when older.
Some of us aren't so lucky. For some, there is no way that we will ever pass. People will know...with some it will be rather obvious, and we'll have to deal with it...or live with our head in the sand our entire lives.
Pebbles: It doesn't make you shallow to desire a life free from the discrimination that can sometimes come with being obviously trans. Nor does it make you shallow to desire a certain asthetic look that you prefer. It simply makes you human.
In beginning this road, you never really know where you'll end up. HRT is just too much of a crap shoot. I'm 36. I'm only 3 months on HRT, but if I put my own pictures up here, I wouldn't get anything better than "Androgynous man" (which isn't nearly as good as "Androgynous boy." With youth, there is much potential.) I'm not sure if I will ever pass. Though for me, there is no other road. I succeed, or I die. There is no going back. Whether I pass...or whether I don't.
Everyone has their own needs. Everyone has their own timeframe. I'm not out yet, and it's going to be a very interesting next 2 years while I try to balance whatever changes HRT brings...with when I decide to tell others. If I'm lucky, HRT won't give me much of a choice about needing to come out. If I'm not...then I may stay under the radar and save a bit more, knowing that I could be fired when I do. But in the end, it will come. One way or another. In the end, when I do come out, I will have to own it with confidence...and show people who I am.
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Confidence in who you are really does mean a lot though. (Yes, even faking that confidence) If you avert your eyes in shame when you pass people on the street, more people will confront what they see as an easy target. If you look them straight in the eye and give a friendly smile, they're less likely to...whether that be because of your disarming friendliness or the resistance they would expect from someone so confident.
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Confidence. In knowing who you are. In knowing that you have a right to be who you are. Regardless of whether you're pretty as a rose, or as ugly as warthog. None of us know what HRT or the future will bring. I don't think Kelly is at all saying "throw caution to the wind." It's all about you, and what you need to be happy. In the end though, regardless of what physical changes time does, or does not, bring...you have a choice: You can:
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Quote from: VTkelly on April 10, 2010, 06:22:45 PM
Exist(x) by living a life that fits ''you, the person" (as) your best hope of being at peace, regardless of what sex the world perceives you to be.
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Or you can be miserable for the rest of your life...burying your head in the sand.
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Is it scary to think about? Not passing at all? Hell yes. It scares me every day. I'm 36, big boned, with very Germanic features. I know the odds. I know what HRT can and can't do. And while I hope for the best...I know full well what I'm getting into....and it scares the hell out of me.
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But living life as I have for the past 36 years scares me even more. Living in constant fear is not at all worthwhile. One way or another, if it's something you NEED to do...eventually you're going to do it. Damn the fears, damn the asthetics, damn the world.
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Own your life...find peace...and find the happiness you deserve...regardless of the hand nature deals you.