I've been thinking about coming out for a while now and could do with some opinions and advice on the matter.
I say stealth in the title, but I'm not really properly stealth, it's just the best word for the situation.
I started a college course as male last year (which I've now finished) and made loads of new friends. I didn't want people to know that I was trans as I didn't think it was necessary. I wanted to be known as Ryan, and not the "->-bleeped-<- kid" or whatever.
Things were great, but as expected, rumours started to circulate. So I assume that most of my friends have heard the rumours. Whether they believe them or not, I don't know.
Things that suck about not being out:
Worrying about people seeing my or feeling my chest/binder.
Having to stay out of random guy wrestling cause of my chest.
Staying over at parties and having to sleep fully clothed, binder and all.
Feeling that I'm hiding something/lying.
Having to make up excuses for why I'm so short/look so young/voice is high/etc.
Worrying about seeing people who knew me from school.
Things that would suck about being out:
Possible awkwardness related to certain conversation topics like sex.
People thinking that my transexuality is a topic of interest/conversation starter/gossip.
Trans jokes. "Blah blah blah, penis." "Oh, you wouldn't know! Hahaha!" kind of thing.
Not being able to casually comment on my dick without people being like "wtf..."
People not understanding my situation/thinking I'm a lesbian/general ignorance/etc.
Not being able to meet new people without already having that trans label attached.
The dick ones sound kinda weird, but my mates are typical sex obsessed men and we just sit around talking about that sort of stuff :P
Do you think it'd just be best to come out?
I came out once in an LGBT space where it was safe to do so and pertinent to the topics at hand. I will say that even though everyone was accepting, I felt exposed, as if suddenly in the middle of a room of strangers I had pulled my pants down and exposed myself, and couldn't pull them back up again.
I will never repeat that. The feeling sucked big time.
Your mileage may vary but for me I don't feel the need to tell anyone I'm trans. All they focused on after that moment was the fact that I was a WOMAN. And that made me physically sick.
Jay
Only your doctor and your lover need to know your trans status.
It is simply none of the worlds buisness. No reason I can think of that warents telling people who dont already know. People knowing you are a natal female will change everything. Enjoy your male life. If you come out you will lose almost all of your male privilage.
JMHO
I'm with Jay. I read his story about coming about at a PFLAG meeting (I think that's what you're referring to, actually) and realized that even though I want to tell my classmates, I can't. They might already know or have some clue, but I'd rather them just have that clue then outright know.
I think they'd stop seeing me as male and start seeing me as either a female or this "other", an inbetween of sorts. I don't doubt that some of them already do think of me like that because of my teachers' outing me (calling me she in class or making sly remarks). But telling them instead of it being an open secret, I think, would be the worst mistake I could make.
If you do come out, I sincerely hope your friends take it well and continue to treat you like the guy you are.
These posts completely back up why I wanted to be "stealth" in the first place.
It's just that I hate having to withdraw myself in certain situations and make excuses for myself. I'm practically lying to good friends.
Plus the fact that many people half know. It's all gossip, but if people believe it, then that's enough to change their attitude towards me.
I've also been in situations where these people ask questions. Some ask outright if I'm a boy or girl, whereas others ask indirect questions that would give them the answer.
It's none of their business. I can tell them this, but this is practically telling them that they're right in their suspicions. So instead I lie. But even this only puts off their questions temporarily. They obviously don't believe me.
I think you should try the following statement or something similar next time you get an inapropriate question...
"Look I have a medical condition, my body doesnt produce enough testosterone. Please drop it. It is a sensitive topic for me."
This is a true statement, you have female anatomy not male so you do not make much T, and it leads people to make an asumption that makes passing easier.
That's the excuse I use.
But there's still people parading around telling people that they went to school with me, that I'm a girl called...
My word against theirs. Why would people believe me when there's already a bunch of people backing up the other side of the situation.
Have you considered changing schools?
I finished my college course a while ago now.
I live in a small town. Although most people have moved on to university now, there are still quite a few left who knew me from school. Word gets around.
Moving away isn't an option for the foreseeable future.
For me, staying in the same town wasn't an option. It got dangerous there. I like living and staying out of ERs.
It's not dangerous here. I've never come into any violence or anything.
People don't really have the guts to do ->-bleeped-<- like that. They're more the sort to whisper behind people's backs.
That can not be good for you. I would sugest you do your best to find a way out. Then you can be you without any bagage.
People are like that though. I don't think it'd be possible to live anywhere without people finding out and this situation reoccurring. I think anyone who wants to live deep stealth is quite frankly, deluded. The moment you get into a physical relationship, you risk it all.
I don't care what people [think they] know about me, but I don't want to hear about it. I just want to be a regular guy, and treated as one.
I think I'm probably asking for too much to be honest. It's in people's nature to be curious about something they don't understand. And if no one educates them, of course they're going to be ignorant. But I don't want to sacrifice myself for education.
This shall probably sound quite pathetic, but I'm still very dependent on my parents.
I'm absolutely lost in life. Currently trying to find a job. Struggling with a major lack of confidence and depression.
EDIT: Cynthia, you also have to keep in mind that these people are hardly adults. We're talking 16-18yr olds.
You'll get there, Ryan. Just give it time. Most of what you're describing are related to being so early in transition. Once you're longer on T and have had chest surgery everything you mentioned will go away. And by then you'll be older, more stable and be able to move to another town and have a fresh start. You, like almost all of us, are just in that awkward stage of transitioning. It sucks, but it's temporary and *hopefully* life will be better at the end of it.
I wish for top surgery, it will take me many years to afford it tho. I need trans inclusive insurance to even have a chance. If your parents are helping you with these expenses, don't lose em.
To offer a different POV. I've never been stealth and never really wanted to so I'm not really sure of how one goes about coming out from being stealth...
The closest example I have is when I started my 6 month contract at a new job. Now I didn't want them to know I was trans from the get go (well my workmates at least, bosses knew) so it was between a few weeks and a month before most of the 8 other workers new I was trans.
I come off as gay all the time so theres always that too, I came out though to a couple of the guys when we were chatting away about dating or something and one of them goes to me "Oh, but you like the c*ck right?" to which I replied "Actually I'm bi." they were a little surprised but didn't give a toss. Then I said "Actually I was born a female as well so its kinda complicated."
Conversation definitely stayed on that topic for about 5-10 minutes and then shifted to other matters.
I personally can't be stealth in many areas of my life due to being on the Executive Board of our cities Queer Youth group, but I find it easier. Like the OP said, its hard when you feel like you're lying or you feel like you need to hide a part of yourself.
If you decide to come out to people, treat it like its not a big deal and they're likely to view it the same way :) tha'ts been my experience.
FWIW I'm still living where I lived when I came out. I had to come out at work, so people there know and occ. use wrong pronouns. I have no idea if new employees know or not, not sure if there is a gossip mill when I'm not around.
My family still has issues with pronouns, mainly because I don't see them often. I did manage to get my mother and sister on board during a recent family emergency where there were hospital personnel who did not need to know (I was not the patient!) in an ultra-conservative area.
I forgot... are you on T yet? That will help quell the rumors. (You just look very young!) But yeah, you can't escape in a small town, but you don't have to wear a Yes, I'm Trans! sign on your back either. I won't deny I'm trans if asked in a respectful way by someone I truly care about, but I won't tell nosy acquaintances.
Yes, the lying thing is annoying. If I say I was married, people assume my ex was F. So I use no pronouns. If I tell someone my ex was male, they assume I was in a gay relationship. I am gay, so technically I was.
Skirting the truth can be annoying, but better than walking around naked all the time.
Jay
Only 11 weeks on T. I pass as a school boy. My voice is very masculine now though.
Yeah T will effect your voice fast. Sevan's voice droped in the first 2 weeks and is still going down. And Sevan is only working on month 3.
Already my mates voice is lower than mine and I am a baratone. But as s/he uses female spreach paterns the effect is still female.
The problems you are having being stealth are the same as the ones I had. The lying one especially got to me. Eventually I stopped trying to be stealth and that solved some problems. Sure it created new ones, but I felt better about my relationships with others - like my relationships were grounded in reality and not in deceit.
I don't see how it can be deceit when we are male inside. We just have a defective body. :D You're not lying when you tell them you're male and you should feel no guilt. Let people talk. People gossip about everyone else anyway no matter who you are. I know it's tougher being in school and in a small town but that won't last forever.
I believe you shouldn't tell anyone your trans except for those really close to you. It's nobody else's business and they will treat you differently when they know for sure. For me I just want to be seen and treated as any other guy. I don't want the special treatment or be the person to talk about just because I'm trans. People who knew me before- that can't be helped, but for people who didn't know me before I'm just another guy.
I agree with Radar that it's not deceit.
I don't feel that I need to be openly trans for the world to see. I understand that some people prefer to be out, but for me, I identify as male. And gay. And I don't see the need to advertise that I'm gay either.
Funny thing was, at that meeting where I stupidly came out, all of the gay guys were saying I should be openly trans. But online in gay male spaces, when the topic of coming out is addressed, many gay men feel the same as a lot of trans people do, that they don't discuss their sexuality unless it comes up, that they don't see the need to out themselves at work if they don't have a partner, etc.
If I'm in a gay space then I don't mind being out as gay, but I won't come out as trans except for medical personnel or intimate partners.
Jay
I agree, I don't think it is lying. Letting someone believe that I am female is lying. Bio guys don't need to go around letting people know how big their penises are to prove they are a man (though sometimes they do) and neither do I.
I understand the OP's point on lying. I was not always female (speaking as to when I transitioned). Leading others to believe that I was felt like deceit to me. That feeling brought on additional stresses and created more lying to cover up for experiences I never had and even to hide experiences I DID have. I understand, and agree with, the OP in terming my feelings 'lying'.
Saying that I'm a dude is not lying, no. But people outright asking if I have a penis or vagina does require lies. Again, saying it's none of their business is just as much use as telling them everything.
There's also the situations where people feel my binder under my shirt and ask about it. Again, I have to lie. Then from that lie comes more questions and more lies.
Although, reading these posts has reminded me how horrible it is when you feel exposed. When people treat you differently.
I definitely won't be coming out. But I do wonder if maybe I should tell close friends?
The gay's used to say 'out is out' - that once you go that route, everyone will find out somehow.
I don't want every man and his dog to know, but at the same time, I feel bad having to straight out lie to some of my closest friends. Saying that, my two very closest friends know just about everything there is to know about me and they're amazing. Never treated me any different. I think it also makes a friendship stronger when you both hold very personal information about one another.
But yeah, I know it's very hard to keep information within a select group of people. It's just a long line of "Don't say anything, but..."
But what does it matter if you have an inny or an outy. The truth of the matter does not change who you are and how you react.
But when your friends know for sure it will change everything. Not only will you be a girl. You will be the girl that wants to be a guy. And that is sooo not what you need in your life right now.
Lie. It harms no one. It causes no isses.
... and as an aside if you refer to your clit as your dick then you are not lieing. Or state I have a 'phalus.' The clitoris and the penis until the modern age were both refered to as such. Then you are not lieing either answer.
If you have no intention of screwing some one they have no call to know. (well the doctors office gets too know)
Me I am not in that position to deal with it. I have a full life with alot of friends in my early 40's. Stealth for me is imposible. I waited too long.
But you have an oportunity here to forge a male life and identity now. In your youth. Use that to your advantage.
Quote from: cynthialee on May 09, 2010, 04:42:13 PM
Only your doctor and your lover need to know your trans status.
It is simply none of the worlds buisness. No reason I can think of that warents telling people who dont already know. People knowing you are a natal female will change everything. Enjoy your male life. If you come out you will lose almost all of your male privilage.
JMHO
You've said it best--people
DON'T need to know! I really don't understand why many trans people feel obligated in telling others of their status. If you are living in your gender role and you are passing, why give that up? I've never told anyone--even when I wasn't passing all that well. Even then no one really questioned my gender, the worst I ever overheard was "SHE looks like a guy". I don't even post my pics--except to update my photobucket page which is to gauge the changes I'm currently going through prior to and after my surgery, and these are kept private. I've been in transition for 15 years and am now just starting to pass very well without anyone making comments of any kind--why would I or anyone want to give that up?
Post Merge: May 11, 2010, 12:35:11 PM
Quote from: cynthialee on May 11, 2010, 12:49:45 PM
Or state I have a 'phalus.'
Isn't that from Spartacus? :laugh:
Post Merge: May 11, 2010, 01:45:31 PM
Quote from: tekla on May 11, 2010, 11:52:55 AM
The gay's used to say 'out is out' - that once you go that route, everyone will find out somehow.
Exactly! All it takes is one other person to know
The issue here isn't really about the world having a right to know your trans status, but one individual feeling a need (however small) to disclose to some people without repercussions. There is a difference between the two.
I think its wrong to fear-monger and assume the absolute worst will happen. For petes sake, people know me as openly trans, whilst being very queer and feminine and they still see me as guy! I live in NZ which is a very 'blokey' place and as I understand it, very similar in sense to England... so I'm thinking the OP might get a similar response if they go about disclosing in a self-affirming, positive, 'its not that big a deal' attitude.
Ryan its not for me to decide, but if you do decide to come out to someone, I hope my words help you somewhat.
FWIW, Ryan, I have a friend who transitioned nearly 10 yrs ago. He is out but stealth, meaning in the LGBT community he is out and easy to find and a real advocate, but in his personal life with his non-LGBT friends he isn't out. He said that over the years he has developed deep friendships with some guys, and to certain people he will disclose. But it is not something he discloses to everyone, and has groups of male friends he does things with where he is not out at all.
Maybe that's more what you are hinting at, that for those people who you have deep connections with, disclosing would help you feel that the relationship is honest.
Only you can decide who is worth telling, and when. In my friend's case, most of those friendships where he did disclose, he did not disclose immediately, but only after a long time.
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on May 12, 2010, 08:16:14 AM
FWIW, Ryan, I have a friend who transitioned nearly 10 yrs ago. He is out but stealth, meaning in the LGBT community he is out and easy to find and a real advocate, but in his personal life with his non-LGBT friends he isn't out. He said that over the years he has developed deep friendships with some guys, and to certain people he will disclose. But it is not something he discloses to everyone, and has groups of male friends he does things with where he is not out at all.
Maybe that's more what you are hinting at, that for those people who you have deep connections with, disclosing would help you feel that the relationship is honest.
Only you can decide who is worth telling, and when. In my friend's case, most of those friendships where he did disclose, he did not disclose immediately, but only after a long time.
Jay
This.
This is what I was talking about.
I think most of us just want to be seen as a normal guy, &once we come out as trans ppl start to see us or part of us as female. And I hate the fact that I feel like im lying or hiding stuff &having to come up with excuses &avoiding certain situations... but its the price we pay, to be a "normal" guy... its like when this girl asked me if I was a virgin... I didn't know what to answer, she sees me as a guy. Or like just awkward situations like that, or where someone asks u to take off ur shirt or they want to see ur body. I hate when they get close enough to feel my chest. Or when u have to sleep over or go swimming, I just wanna have a male chest &be able to do all that without worrying.
:/
Id stay in stealth, I wouldn't want to come out because of the fact that I don't want to be seen as female at all.
i'm not ftm but i feel for you. it's really hard keeping something like that from your friends that you make. you want to be close to them, to anyone, but keeping something like that makes it feel like you aren't as close as you can really be.
i think being transgender is like a litmus test of whether these people are worth having in your life or not. i know you want to avoid being talked about by everyone, hell so do i, so do we all. but i think you'll find, if you confide in people you feel are trustworthy, you may be surprised at the reaction. with the good comes the bad, and there will be people who are jerks about it. but now you know that those are the types of people that aren't really necessary for you to keep around. when you find people who accept you, all of you, and respect you as a human being... it makes it worth it in my opinion.
its not EVERYONES business. but if you feel like you need to tell some people... i don't see the harm because from my experience, if you pass, people are more willing to see you as you are regardless. you definitely pass, so if you told me, i'd still call you a guy and he. you've conditioned people to see you as male. thats hard to break. like when parents call their ts child the birth gender out of habit. its what they knew them as, and your community knows you as male.
stealth was annoying to me. so you know what i did? i posted my story in a magazine. yep. i did. and you know what happened? not a damn thing. it's not the end of the world if you're transsexual and some people know. you should feel empowered you look as good as you do.
my 2 cents.
I would bull->-bleeped-<-. Do you pack? If so, to the penis or vagina question I would just grab my crotch and say what do you think, ->-bleeped-<-? Or just grunt. I mean, how would a cis guy react if someone asked him that? Probably laugh, or punch em, depending on the guy. Give them the, ah are you stupid or something response and walk away.
My response to , "Do you have a penis?" is, "Yes. In fact, I have several." Which is perfectly true. ;) ;D
In all seriousness, though, I completely understand where you are coming from. Always having to watch what you do or say in case you out yourself can be very stressful. On the other hand, once people know you're "really" a woman, they may never see you as a man. That drives me completely up the wall, to the point that I'm trying to get myself into a position to move away from the small town I transitioned in.
That being said, though, people tend to resist changing their perceptions, whatever they may be. If your current friends have always thought of you as a guy, they may very well continue seeing you as a guy, even after you disclose. If I were you, though, I would wait until you've been on T a bit longer, so that you look and sound absolutely, unimpeachably male.