I have been thinking that I should perhaps learn a martial art for self-defence. Do you practice a martial art, if so what one would you recommend?
Post Merge: June 05, 2010, 07:29:49 AM
We are really quite vulnerable when you think about it. An attacker could grap hold of our hair or a necklace, and kicking might be difficult in a tight skirt or dress, or when wearing heels.
And if you do successfully defend your self, then you risk having your attackers and any bystanders prejudices being confirmed that you really are just a 'guy in a dress'.
Post Merge: June 05, 2010, 02:42:20 PM
As we lose a lot of our upper body strength, perhaps Aikido and/or Judo may be better for us. As these two martial arts use the attackers size and weight against them. The down side is that unless you are near black belt level then Aikido and Judo will probably not be very useful if you are attacked by several people at the same time.
I was picked on allot at school so my step dad started teaching me the Jujitsu and Taekwondo he'd learned in the Army
I became fascinated and studied Karate and Kung Fu later on
I realized just recently how out of practice, weak and vulnerable I'd become
I'm thinking about taking up Tai Chi now
After surgery I plan on studying Krav Maga--a hand to hand combat technique developed for the Israeli Mosaad which is based on instinctual movements. Here are some interesting links. Also, you can search youtube and find a lot of information there.
http://www.commandokravmaga.com/html/index.html (http://www.commandokravmaga.com/html/index.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga)
I have a black belt from a standard McDojo (black belt mill). 3 years at $75 a month plus a $35 graduation fee for each belt I "earned".
Depending on the instructor you can learn a lot from those kinds of places. Dont be afraid to ask how long the teacher has been learning. What type of martial arts they know and stuff like that. If the instructor only has a black belt from the school you want to attend then you might want to look else where.
Also, most places will let you watch a class or two and possibly let you try a class out for free. I know a place where I live offering the first two weeks plus uniform for $25. Trick is all the "protective gear" must be purchased through them, with teir logo on it for their price.
Some essential and easy techniques for self-defense can be taught even within a day, but it can take many years to master a martial art for defending yourself. Even pros can not subdue two opponents. If the opponent has a weapon, it become more difficult. It is the same for martial art: if you have any weapon or even with a stick, a kendo student can subdue two or more opponents.
But it would depend on your willingness and mind. For example, in life-threatening situation, are you ready to gouge the eyes of your opponent by your fingers? This is an easiet self-defense technique, but I am not quite sure whether I can even try it even if my life is in danger. I saw the movie "saving private ryan", and the hand-to-hand combat scence. I just wondered why the soldier do not attack the eyes of his opponent. He was just biting, which is very ineffective in self-defense. Could he attack the eyes of enemy if he had learned basic self-defense?
Barbie~~
Wing Chun and Southern Praying Mantis can be good for women to practice since they are both designed for smaller/weaker people (Wing Chun was actually invented by a woman)
Most of the mainstream martial arts are OK provided they are taught by a recognised teacher. For that, you really need to do a little research and find the correct governing body. I would suggest you check which the Olympic Games recognises.
I did Karate for a number of years. What I can say is I became incredably fit. A good teacher and it's also really interesting. You reach the end of a secession and though exhausted, feel an incredable high. I also lost my fear of people for the first time.
But I will repeat what my first sensi said when I asked him what would be the best defense technique. He said RUN!.
I asked him, what if I have my wife with me. He said, pick her up and run.
The point is, no matter how good you are, the best way out of trouble is to get out. Use what you need to disarm or put your assailent off then get out of there.
The images on TV and such, where some tiny girl beats a bunch of big guys into submission isn't reality, nor is it advisable.
But I would recommend a martial art to anyone fit enough to do it.
No offense but ->-bleeped-<- it, get a handgun (if your old enough) and then a concealed arms license I guess.
No matter what type of martial arts you learn, as a former taekwondo student of thirteen years as somebody already stated "run" multiple assailants takes many years of practice and it really does not matter if they have a gun. Just learn to be aware of your surroundings and always go out in groups or find someone you know and trust go out with you. A good rule of thumb to live by is "if it looks like a rough place to be, stay away". While martial arts have their place, I have found that sometimes one becomes over confident. When used wisely they are excellent means of excercise and self defense.
Please don't get a gun, knife, or even pepperspray. Only frightened people carry an artificial weapon. That means that people who carry an artificial weapon look like easy prey. By the time you can get to your artificial weapon, it's too late, and bringing a gun to a fistfight is a very good way to die. Don't. It's not safe. Guns are nice on range, I guess, which makes them completely useless as a defence tool. Knives are very poor weapons, easy to dodge, and hard to handle. Most people who carry a knife into a fight end up stabbed by their own knife.
A martial art will give you the confidence you need, if you are afraid. Your gait will change, your posture will change, and predators of any kind will leave you alone because of those non-verbal signs. While a weapon reinforces the signs of an easy victim, relying on your own body removes them.
Also, there is simply no better weapon than yourself.
The only problem is: Constantly worrying over being assaulted is probably the best way to actually gét assaulted. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
If you want to learn a martial art, there are a few that do very well. I myself have learnt shotokan karate-do, and did some kung-fu. In my opinion: Kung fu is not a martial sport. It is an art, and it's very intense, but in a fight, it isn't worth much. Better options are full-contact karate, tai boxing and gripping/hybrid sports, like judo, ju-jitsu, medieval european fist-fighting, krav macha and stuff like that. Avoid sports that look pretty. :P Beautiful martial arts are generally slow, interrupt momentum, and lack impact.
There have been similar threads previously. I think the general summary by 'street' smart people that any of the self defense martial arts are of very limited use unless you have the body mass to absorb punishment and the strength to allow good technique to be powerful. Wearing heels a dress etc will be of little help to your technique. I can assure you that none of Charlie's Angels would last a heart beat in a real street fight. The nearest techniques for successful defense can be seen in cage fighting. They tend to be a combination of successful heavy punching to the face, fast reflexes, ability to obtain submission holds and the strength to support them. And the desire and ability to take advantage of a position with brutal force. That means if you manage to get your attacker at all open you need to have the will to take his eyes out. To inflict permanent and life threatening damage.
Few people can in fact do that without constant training and experience.
As others have also said, don't get yourself in a place where you are in danger. Women in particular need to read their environment very carefully. With our general lower upper body strength we have very little chance against an equal sized male. That isn't sexist it's biology. Run away is the best idea, screaming like hell at the same time. Take your shoes off if need be.
I'm not convinced weapons are good. Guns are banned in Australia so only the bad guys have them. We cannot legally use capsicum sprays, tasers, knives etc. So the best idea is don't get into the situation to begin with.
JMO
Cindy
Remember there are three kinds of martial arts. Some are meant for recreation/sport and are of limited use in a street fight as such techniques are not taught. Some are methods of exercise/health that balance a person out, and some are outright combat/thug techniques, which are of some use, if only to let you know you don't want to be caught in a situation where such things are used.
I always felt that its pretty much a given that street attackers know street fighting, and dojo training is a world removed from that stuff and often proves to be of limited, if not negative value.
I'm also aware that most of the fights I've ever seen go down in my life last about a second, which is the amount of time it takes someone to get the jump-off on you and turn out the lights.
I studied martial arts a lot growing up and as a young adult. Tae Kwon Do and Aikido. One thing I learned is that size does matter. That movie myth about little people taking on big guys and kicking their hineys really is a myth. Holds that work on people my own size are impossible to perform on those who are larger and stronger, and I am doing them right. A kick to the solar plexis or strike to the temple on a big guy does nothing except anger them. To pull off something on those guys I'd have to take them by surprise, which means being the agressor. I long ago switched to the Smith and Wesson style and never looked back.
Brains+Awareness are more powerful then Smith+Wesson by a long shot. That and S+W are not all that good - matter of fact anymore they are discount K-Mart weapons in a haute couture Nordstrom's world, give me a Glock, or a Beretta any day. The kind of morons I know who carry weapons on the street have weapons that can unload a clip before you get a S&W to fire a single shot.
Dirty Harry was almost half a century ago.
Brains+Awareness
Pluuuuus I think I am Dirty Harry... Can't you tell? :laugh:
Actually I have been trained on various fire arms in younger days but tend to avoid being around them now
Truly, being aware of your surroundings is the best way to avoid trouble in the first place
But in that rare circumstance where you can't walk away or run or hide it's a good idea to have a defense plan of some sort
Quote from: tekla on June 07, 2010, 08:29:25 PM
Brains+Awareness are more powerful then Smith+Wesson by a long shot. That and S+W are not all that good - matter of fact anymore they are discount K-Mart weapons in a haute couture Nordstrom's world, give me a Glock, or a Beretta any day. The kind of morons I know who carry weapons on the street have weapons that can unload a clip before you get a S&W to fire a single shot.
Dirty Harry was almost half a century ago.
Sorry Tek, I have problems with automatics. They jam on me. Take too much strength to load properly, and shoot with a stiff enough wrist. And I'm too lazy to clean them regularly. So I'll take a revolver, thanks.
But lately I'm growing fond of the two shot deringer in .38 cal. I figure if you need more than two shots, you're screwed. And even a heart or jugular shot can take up to 30 seconds to drop your attacker. Plenty of time for them to take your gun away and use the remaining rounds on you. Two shots seems like the right number to me. But I still have my 5 shot revolver with laser sight. I've been meaning to trade in, but it's hard to give up a $1200 pistol like that. I just wish it weren't so heavy when loaded.
Although I've been lazy about it lately, I study Taekwondo. (I was practicing some nasty strikes on the heavy bag this weekend and learned a valuable lesson when I knuckled my right boob during an elbow strike.)
I also carry a S&W Sigma (Glock clone) 9mm. She's my friend.
Thinking you only need two shots makes you painfully unaware of what's really going down in the streets. This ain't Leave It To Beaver anymore, and if your really going to be attacked, its going to be by a group, not by one lone nut. And the people in that group are not like you. They are not too lazy to clean their guns, their guns are the most prized thing they own in the world, the total sum of their power. They are lickity split clean, well oiled, and the trigger is exactly the tension they want it to be (it is adjustable if you don't know). Nor are they too weak to pull the trigger a hella' lot faster than you can.
It's a little bit embarrassing to admit, but the only thing that actually kept me from being raped a couple of weeks ago was being pre-op.
When the guy realized I didn't have the McNuggets he was after he got embarrassed and frustrated
Then comes the fear of getting beaten or worse
Luckily he just cursed me out and left :P
Quote from: tekla on June 07, 2010, 09:30:18 PM
Thinking you only need two shots makes you painfully unaware of what's really going down in the streets. This ain't Leave It To Beaver anymore, and if your really going to be attacked, its going to be by a group, not by one lone nut. And the people in that group are not like you. They are not too lazy to clean their guns, their guns are the most prized thing they own in the world, the total sum of their power. They are lickity split clean, well oiled, and the trigger is exactly the tension they want it to be (it is adjustable if you don't know). Nor are they too weak to pull the trigger a hella' lot faster than you can.
If I get attacked by ten guys at once, I don't think having 19 rounds in a Glock is going to save me. The best I can probably do is get off a couple of shots before one of them caves my skull in with a baseball bat. But most incidents that occur near where I work are just one guy snatching purses or breaking into cars or offices for a few days before he gets caught. Last streak of robberies was just a couple of weeks ago. In one instance he tried to steal two purses at once from two ladies walking together, and he wound up shooting one of them in the face. A two shot derringer in a jacket pocket or gun purse would have gone a long way in that situation.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 07, 2010, 08:50:01 PM
Brains+Awareness
Pluuuuus I think I am Dirty Harry... Can't you tell? :laugh:
COOL!!! Sometimes I feel like marsellus wallace :laugh:
There's a passage I got memorized. Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. I been sayin' that ->-bleeped-<- for years. And if you ever heard it, that meant your ass. I never game much thought to what it meant. I just thought it was a cold-blooded thing to say to a mother->-bleeped-<-er before I popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some ->-bleeped-<- this mornin' made me think twice. See, now I'm thinkin': maybe it means you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. 9mm here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. And I'd like that. But that ->-bleeped-<- ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
Pulp Fiction Martial arts... LOL
I'm just thinking that Samual L. Jackson was right when he was saying the truth is you're the weak. Weak people carry weapons. Strong people know enough to avoid the problems in the first place.
Oh, I see... Anyway, I love that scene ;D
this is my first post...lol
But i will have to go with wing chun.
To me its the best, easiest, fastest, and most effective martial art.
I was developed by a women therefore is exellent for smaller weaker people but can be used by others as well.
I currently do wing chun and its fun too.
It doesnt take as long as other martial arts either to be able to use it effectively.
When I was a teenager, I took Judo from a Brazillian who tossed in occasional Ju Jitsu for when throwing and pinning someone just wasn't enough. :D
He also taught all his students how to relax and meditate.
Judo was amazing. It was very good exercise and great at making me flexible. I've been thinking of picking it back up.
Quote from: Epigania on June 09, 2010, 06:54:12 PM
When I was a teenager, I took Judo from a Brazillian who tossed in occasional Ju Jitsu for when throwing and pinning someone just wasn't enough. :D
He also taught all his students how to relax and meditate.
Judo was amazing. It was very good exercise and great at making me flexible. I've been thinking of picking it back up.
I recall the old Beverly Hillbillies episode where Jethro wanted to take martial arts because he thought food was involved, i.e Judo Rolls and Karate Chops :laugh:
Don't forget the Jujitsu snaps and pops... LOL
Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 09, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
Don't forget the Jujitsu snaps and pops... LOL
:laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Stephanie on June 05, 2010, 02:21:23 PM
I have been thinking that I should perhaps learn a martial art for self-defence. Do you practice a martial art, if so what one would you recommend?
Post Merge: June 05, 2010, 07:29:49 AM
We are really quite vulnerable when you think about it. An attacker could grap hold of our hair or a necklace, and kicking might be difficult in a tight skirt or dress, or when wearing heels.
And if you do successfully defend your self, then you risk having your attackers and any bystanders prejudices being confirmed that you really are just a 'guy in a dress'.
Post Merge: June 05, 2010, 02:42:20 PM
As we lose a lot of our upper body strength, perhaps Aikido and/or Judo may be better for us. As these two martial arts use the attackers size and weight against them. The down side is that unless you are near black belt level then Aikido and Judo will probably not be very useful if you are attacked by several people at the same time.
Starting at the age of 7 I studied Jeet Kune Do, Aikido and then started kickboxing in my twenties.
It was a lot of fun though I have given it up within the past few years.
To be honest though, I have never been in a situation where I have had to physically use what I learned from martial arts. Avoiding potentially dangerous places/situations HAS been a life saver though, coupled with heightened (read: conscious/focused) awareness.
Lately I have whole heartedly and purposefully resigned from martial arts to flexibility, meditation and just keeping in good tone/shape.
Rather than recommend anything, I will just share what I have learned:
1. Awareness/Knowledge is more important than physical condition. All the physical superiority in the world won't help you if you are as dumb as an ox (generally speaking, not meant to offend any oxen).
2. Physical conditioning (flexibility, endurance, and some strength training) is more important than martial arts. Your body, mind and spirit are your greatest weapons. Martial arts is only the vehicle or form you choose to manuever in.
3. Which martial art? A martial art is like a brush in the hand of an artist. The brush does not make the holder an artist, it is merely a vehicle that assists the artist. Choose whichever brush works for you.
Good Luck!
I'll take all the martial arts classes, all the training, all of that up against one guy who grew up in the streets, on the streets and I will take him plus 15 points to kick all of your asses. None of you even begin to know what you're talking about in a real city, in real time.
Kaori, your post feels like wisdom. :)
Quote from: tekla on June 09, 2010, 10:35:37 PM
I'll take all the martial arts classes, all the training, all of that up against one guy who grew up in the streets, on the streets and I will take him plus 15 points to kick all of your asses. None of you even begin to know what you're talking about in a real city, in real time.
LAWL. Your so funny. You crack me up.
I managed to make it though half a century, and a PhD before I ever saw anyone killed before my very eyes. Then, in a year and a half I saw three. Two by gunshots. I'll take the gun over your mighty martial arts training any day.
Remember, guns don't kill people, gaping holes through vital organs do it.
Quote from: tekla on June 09, 2010, 10:35:37 PM
I'll take all the martial arts classes, all the training, all of that up against one guy who grew up in the streets, on the streets and I will take him plus 15 points to kick all of your asses. None of you even begin to know what you're talking about in a real city, in real time.
Yup, non of us have ever lived in a real city or had to defend ourselves from a real attacker
Yup, we all live in la la lollipop land and have no education and no idea about the world around us
Heck!!! It's amazing we're not all dead
It does shock me from time to time that some of you are alive. But then again for most of the people in here a bad neighborhood is one with a person of color in it. Try where I work, look it up on the murder map, TURK and TAYLOR, San Francisco. It's got one of the highest homicide rates in the US.
I had to pass through the barrio on my way to school and back as a child in So. Calif.
While playing on the front green a man from the barrio walked by in a white shirt and black pants (restaurant stuff) and smiled
When he got to the barrio he was approached by a group of men... He collapsed at the edge of my driveway a few moments later
His white shirt was now turning red and he was saying agua...agua
I knew what agua was so I ran in the house and asked my mom if I could have a glass of water for the guy at the driveway
She called on the phone but wouldn't let me go back outside
Then the police and ambulance came
I've been witness or have seen the aftermath of other violent deaths, but that is the only one I will discuss at this time
So that's good, you know that all that martial arts stuff don't do no good against a gang, against a gun, against a knife.
I'll chime in here. First, I'd like to dispel the myth that weapons are useless or only for the weak. Speaking of the weak, weapons make perfect sense. A gun is said to be the great equalizer. An 80-year-old frail woman who can barely get around would be an easy target for gangbangers to beat up and rob. Now if that same elderly frail woman has a .357 on her side and has been shooting since she was 11 years old, that changes things. I have an Arizona CCW permit. I usually carry where legally allowed and sometimes visibly. Last night I made a trip to the local Walmart after midnight. There were about seven thug-looking characters loitering around the entrance who clearly didn't look like they belonged there and had no intention of shopping or doing anything constructive. I walked in with my Glock on my hip and did my quick one-item shopping. Ten minutes later when I walked out of the store, guess how many of them were still hanging around acting suspicious? You guessed it: ZERO.
Enough about guns. Let's talk about situational awarness which I think is most important. Let's assume that someone is determined to do you in. They can't do so if they can't get to you. They can either attack you in your home, in the company of others (such as a public place), or while traveling (walking, driving, bus, etc.). You can protect yourself quite well in these situations without needing weapons or martial arts at all. At home, lock the damn doors. Problem solved. If that fails, every home has some type of a weapon (i.e. kitchen knife) that can be used to do in an intruder. As to public places, pay attention to your surroundings. Sit in a restaurant at a seat where you have the maximum view of your surroundings. Note your exits. If you are in line at a store, beware of blind spots as you remove your wallet to pay for the items. These things may take getting used to but after awhile they become second nature. As to traveling, use your five senses. If you are walking, you can not only see but hear or smell another person approaching (i.e. freshly lit cigarette). It sounds animalistic but we are mammals and use your instinctual survival skills. Cars--check your mirrors, watch when you get in/out of the car. Just pay attention to what is around you such as on trains, buses, etc.
I've always found that the easiest way to avoid being victimized is literally as simple as paying attention. I could be armed to the teeth but it won't help if my mind is buried in the morning paper while someone is sneaking up behind me.
If the fight is on, my advice is create distance. This is precisely why I like weapons vs. martial arts. A fist can be far deadlier than a gun or knife. All they have to do is knock you unconscious and you are done. The purpose of physically fighting is to re-create distance. Knock the gun out of their hands, quickly duck/dodge as they try to stab you, etc. However, once you have fought with your body and created the distance, the key is to maintain that distance. Pepper spray, tasers, knives, and guns all create distance more effectively than fists.
Be brave and don't feel powerless. Victimizers tend to prey on people deemed to be weak. That is why attackers often attack in groups. However, there is likely an alpha male in the group. Suppose six guys want to beat you. One is likely the toughest baddest one in the group. The others are following him. Once you down the worst one, the others may just back off. Plus, fight dirty. Seriously. It is your life, your body, and your existance at stake. My only other advice is to regularly run what-if scenarios in your head. It may seem like paranoia but can save your life. The more situations you imagine the more solutions to them you will create. When the real event happens you will automatically revert to your training. If you already have a plan, you are likely to mess up the attacker's plan because they certainly will assume you don't have one. Take care.
One thing that nearly all martial arts teach you is the best way to avoid a problem is to be aware and avoid the problem
Sure, you may be able to take a gun away from a person, you may be able to break the elbow of someone with a knife. You may even be able to fend off three guys who are somewhat drunk and decide to beat you up to get their jollies. Or as I recently learned, some nut may attempt to rape you
But in reality, even the best martial artists will have to fight for there lives when attacked, and I am def. not one of the best
Actually, although I've studied various martial arts in younger days, I tend to call my own style "F-U survival mode"
Although I've been trained with a variety firearms I don't like to be around them. But I will admit that I have been tempted to get myself some heat
I took Aiki Jujitsu for about 6 months which is geared more to ending the fight as soon as it starts. Breaking bones, etc. The lighter version of this is Aikido which is very graceful yet still awesome as self defense. I actually thought about taking this for a while and might try it one day. Size and strength doesn't matter.
Quote from: Britney_413 on June 10, 2010, 01:46:06 AM
I'll chime in here. First, I'd like to dispel the myth that weapons are useless or only for the weak. Speaking of the weak, weapons make perfect sense. A gun is said to be the great equalizer. An 80-year-old frail woman who can barely get around would be an easy target for gangbangers to beat up and rob. Now if that same elderly frail woman has a .357 on her side and has been shooting since she was 11 years old, that changes things. I have an Arizona CCW permit. I usually carry where legally allowed and sometimes visibly. Last night I made a trip to the local Walmart after midnight. There were about seven thug-looking characters loitering around the entrance who clearly didn't look like they belonged there and had no intention of shopping or doing anything constructive. I walked in with my Glock on my hip and did my quick one-item shopping. Ten minutes later when I walked out of the store, guess how many of them were still hanging around acting suspicious? You guessed it: ZERO.
The question is: What would that group think of you when you show up with a visible fire-arm? They were loitering people. You've got them everywhere, and that doesn't imply that they're dangerous. Your assessment might have been wrong. Their assessment of you might have been wrong. They might have simply thought that you were so predjudice against them that you might start trouble. The way it sounds to me, in this situation, you were the liability. Not them.
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Enough about guns. Let's talk about situational awarness which I think is most important. Let's assume that someone is determined to do you in. They can't do so if they can't get to you. They can either attack you in your home, in the company of others (such as a public place), or while traveling (walking, driving, bus, etc.). You can protect yourself quite well in these situations without needing weapons or martial arts at all. At home, lock the damn doors. Problem solved. If that fails, every home has some type of a weapon (i.e. kitchen knife) that can be used to do in an intruder. As to public places, pay attention to your surroundings. Sit in a restaurant at a seat where you have the maximum view of your surroundings. Note your exits. If you are in line at a store, beware of blind spots as you remove your wallet to pay for the items. These things may take getting used to but after awhile they become second nature. As to traveling, use your five senses. If you are walking, you can not only see but hear or smell another person approaching (i.e. freshly lit cigarette). It sounds animalistic but we are mammals and use your instinctual survival skills. Cars--check your mirrors, watch when you get in/out of the car. Just pay attention to what is around you such as on trains, buses, etc.
Sounds a bit paranoid, to me. And I've lived a decade of my life as a street fighter who was always in trouble. I've learnt that it's partly my posture that creates trouble; it you expect it, you will have a higher chance of getting it.
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I've always found that the easiest way to avoid being victimized is literally as simple as paying attention. I could be armed to the teeth but it won't help if my mind is buried in the morning paper while someone is sneaking up behind me.
While true, it does pay to know whén you have the pay attention. Pay too much attention, and you'll be convinced that danger is everywhere. Paranoia, again.
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If the fight is on, my advice is create distance. This is precisely why I like weapons vs. martial arts. A fist can be far deadlier than a gun or knife. All they have to do is knock you unconscious and you are done. The purpose of physically fighting is to re-create distance. Knock the gun out of their hands, quickly duck/dodge as they try to stab you, etc. However, once you have fought with your body and created the distance, the key is to maintain that distance. Pepper spray, tasers, knives, and guns all create distance more effectively than fists.
Combat is ruthlessly fast. Drawing a gun is a very costly action, in terms of time, not even counting aiming and getting the safety off. And then, you still have to shoot. Shooting a gun is a very hard deal. You have to really, really wánt to do that, and for humans, it is quite hard in generally to unleash such a force.
And even if you did, the fight isn't over. Some people will be so extremely shocked when shot that they instinctively cower. This is basically what you're aiming for. Other people will instinctively go completely berserk on you. If that happens, you'll die unless you shoot them in the head. Is it worth the gamble? A single bullet rarely renders the opponent dead or even incapacitated.
Another problem is that it's really hard to create distance against people who really want to harm you. As soon as you step back, they'll be on top of you, cornering you into close combat while your hand is at your holster, and completely useless. Even if you've drawn the gun; when they're on top of you, you can't aim it properly, and probably won't hit anything. The chances of hitting them with it are also just about equal of the chances hitting yourself.
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Be brave and don't feel powerless. Victimizers tend to prey on people deemed to be weak. That is why attackers often attack in groups. However, there is likely an alpha male in the group. Suppose six guys want to beat you. One is likely the toughest baddest one in the group. The others are following him. Once you down the worst one, the others may just back off. Plus, fight dirty. Seriously. It is your life, your body, and your existance at stake. My only other advice is to regularly run what-if scenarios in your head. It may seem like paranoia but can save your life. The more situations you imagine the more solutions to them you will create. When the real event happens you will automatically revert to your training. If you already have a plan, you are likely to mess up the attacker's plan because they certainly will assume you don't have one. Take care.
True, but don't overdo it to the point where you see possible assault everywhere. Your posture will give you away, and it will invite assault as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I have the rank of Shodan in an Okinawan martial art and studied jujitsu as well. If applied correctly the techniques WILL work no matter what ones size. I would not hesitate to confront someone holding a knife or stick. A firearm is another story-then it's time to get my hat. The worst whipping I ever got while training was from a 14 year old girl.
Quote from: tekla on June 09, 2010, 10:35:37 PM
I'll take all the martial arts classes, all the training, all of that up against one guy who grew up in the streets, on the streets and I will take him plus 15 points to kick all of your asses. None of you even begin to know what you're talking about in a real city, in real time.
smartest post in this thread.
martial arts are good exercise and good lessons in body awareness...but they are only a
pale shadow of what a real fight for your life is like.
if anyone wants to know the previous experiences that qualify me to make that judgement, feel free to send me a pm.
Quote from: Hauser on June 10, 2010, 07:56:52 AM
smartest post in this thread.
martial arts are good exercise and good lessons in body awareness...but they are only a pale shadow of what a real fight for your life is like.
if anyone wants to know the previous experiences that qualify me to make that judgement, feel free to send me a pm.
This is why I favor Krav Maga. It is based on what you would encounter in real life situations. Instinctual movements rather than a set series of patterns
That's why I favor hanging out in nicer neighborhoods. All too often this kind of training when taken the wrong way (toting weapons also does the same thing) encourages people to take chances that they would be best off not taking - and would not take without it. Any alley that is not safe for you without a weapon, or martial arts training, is just as unsafe with that stuff.
It might help in some one one one situation with some nutbar (though even then... most crazy people are in fact too crazy to know when they've lost, thus making them pretty hard to beat unless you kill them) but humans are pack animals, and an aweful lot of this stuff happens on a pack level, so you're going to be facing more than one. I sure don't see where its going to help you against your local Crips, Bloods, Norteños, Sureños, Latin Kings or any of those groups. Like Ice-T said in 'Midnight', Some places red don't go, some places red's all they know and that stuff is very, very serious and its in every major metropolitan area of the US, and most of the minor places also.
About a year ago Oakland cops tried to pull a guy over, a routine traffic stop as they say. He came out with an automatic rifle, killed 3 cops who were trying to arrest him, and later killed 2 more when SWAT tried to storm the apartment where he was holed up (among other things he was wanted for rape), do you really think your Dojo training is going to be more powerful than he is (was, he's dead, dead, dead now - shoot a cop in Oakland you're NOT going to jail - true in a lot of cities by the way)? And that shooting happened on a corner that when I lived in Oakland I'd go past almost every day. And it was broad daylight.
The woman who was raped for hours by four gang members in Richmond, could she have fought all of them off?
All of that is very excellent stuff for training your body, mind and in some cases spirit, but it never can overcome people who grew up fighting, and still are constantly fighting on a street level. Dojo training will not make you savage, and that savage is just what you're up against.
a MAJOR consideration people let fall by the wayside when they take martial arts is this..
you may be physically prepared for an assault...
but you will NEVER be MENTALLY prepared for such a thing until it actually happens to you.
the people who would attack you in these scenarios ARE prepared and they are MORE than prepared...
They have internalized violence and disregard for others. your pain means NOTHING to them except possibly as a turn on.
if you have no direct experience with violence and the panicked fight or flight response it will produce in you...you are at an EXTREME disadvantage no matter how much martial arts you take.
Ive been the victim and in my young and stupid days i was one of the aggressors. I came up in a violent and dangerous atmosphere. I have to live with it now...the fact that violence is a very real part of my being and if i want to keep the humanity i worked soooooooo hard to win back..i will be fighting the violence in me for the rest of my life.
all the jujitsu and whatever WILL NOT save you from a calculated criminal of the sort i used to be and spend my days with.
if i decided to attack someone again..they'd never see it coming. and there's no honor amongst theives and killers and rapists...they dont follow any kind of code..they arent going to even give you time to get into a stance or anything like that..
what you do is
avoid dangerous areas
not be alone in dangerous areas
if you HAVE TO be in a dangerous area..have your cellphone in hand with emergency services on speed dial.
the instant you realize you are about to get it..hit the speed dial button and run.
If one is attending a GOOD school under a GOOD instructor you will be ready if and when you run into trouble IF you have dilligently applied what you learned. A half way student in a good school will be only marginal at best-hence the warning-a little knowledge will get you killed. To imply these techniques will not work if done properly is wrong. Just ask a student of the late Bruce Lee if what he taught was effective. Ask anyone who studies Pankration if these techniques will work. I can assure you that they do.
Don't be a victim-Learn to defend yourself and live.
Against a street fighter, though? No. I'm very sorry, but no. Bruce Lee's sports would have very little effect other than probably be laughed at. (Which is a huge advantage in itself, though.)
Point is: In a real fight, techniques are bad. Because techniques are taught, not learnt. They're predictable.
Listen to Hauser, gals. They're completely right on that.
Me; I'd say: Martial arts are good. They teach about posture and demeanor, and those are key elements of avoiding a fight. Of not being attacked in the first place. If you are attacked: Fight up close and dirty. As soon as you incapacitate someone: Take a runner. Don't aim for the genitals; go for the throat and face. Don't scratch; use fists, feet and open-hand grabs. Twist, break, sprain, crush. Those are your only options. Because that's what your opponent will do.
And yes; size and strength do matter, as well as speed. Not the speed in landing a punch, but the speed with which you can rotate, twist, move your spine and shoulders, and..
Oh, well.. I'm not going to continue on this one. The easiest fights I had were against highly trained martial artists. Just.. Understand that, no matter how prepared you may think you are, no matter what kind of weapon you're holding, and no matter what your instincts say (fight or flight) your knees will be buckling with fear. Unless you are the aggressor, of course. That happened to me every time, and it was on a daily basis for years. I once brought a club. Wrenched out of my hand easily. I brought a knife. I'm thankful to this day they threw it away. I was held at gunpoint, but managed to outbluff him. (It's far harder to shoot someone who's standing right in front of you, looking you in the eyes.)
In other words: Don't get into trouble. If you see something happening: Walk away, and ring the cops. If people come at you, threatening: Cower until they really attack. Be submissive, and back away, until they really attack. Don't make the mistake of feeling invincible because of your training/weapon.
In response to some of the other posts, I do have to say I don't think there is a one size fits all strategy for defense and combat. The closest and most effective strategy is reasonable avoidance and awareness of your surroundings. Some people think that's paranoid, but that's up to you. Criminals often case targets before they attack. One of the things they look for is body language that tells them who is an easy target and who is not. Someone who acts or looks scared or nervous is going to attract their attention. Worse, is someone who is completely oblivious to their surroundings.
You want to be confident and aware at the same time. Suppose I'm walking down the street and a couple of rough-looking people are approaching me. I could quickly cross the street but if they are casing me that will alert them I'm already nervous about their presence and will likely egg on a possible attack. I could pretend I don't see them and keep walking their direction but then they could see I'm unaware and quickly attack as I'm not paying attention. What I would do instead is simply continue walking as normal and upon passing them give a quick nod and a smile. This tells them that I'm not afraid and I'm aware that they are there making me look much less like an easy target.
People who correct the problem of being unaware of their surroundings will avoid the majority of problems. Most people operate in "condition white" in public places which is bad. When you enter a place you should have a certain awareness of where your exits are, about how many people are in the place, the general atmosphere of the environment, and noted anyone acting out of the ordinary. You should be aware of who is behind you. Sadly most people think this is being paranoid. I call it being aware. It isn't that difficult to be in "condition yellow" once you get used to it.
As to actual fighting, I stand by what I said about creating distance. Whether the person is six inches from you, three feet, ten feet, or fifty feet will determine what actions you take. I don't think there is any hard and fast rule. No matter how much training you have, no real life situation will be identical to an example in a textbook. Weapons are useful only if you know how to use them, are willing to use them when needed, use them properly and in a tactical manner, and maintain retention on your weapons.
As to my Walmart example, me open carrying (or anyone else for that matter) in my state is generally a non-issue. Generally the only people who will care about me entering a store with a holstered gun are people who aren't up to any good in the first place or out-of-staters who aren't familiar with our laws. The fact that all of those people left so fast confirms my theory that they didn't belong there. Nobody in the store noticed or cared, only the people standing around eyeballing everyone. This was at a store in an area known for illegal aliens and this particular area has seen frequent Sheriff crackdowns.
Again, there are so many different tactics people can choose from. Every person should devote at least some time to beefing up security for themselves in the ways that they feel work best for them. In general, keeping doors locked, controlling who goes in and out of your house, being somewhat private about your lifestyle habits and routines, aware of your surroundings in public, and coming up with what-if scenarios and potential solutions to events can all combine to minimize your chance of being victimized.
Hi,
We do need to be aware of our surroundings and who is in front, behind and to the side of us. I have done Judo but also carry a personal alarm, they do work and confuses your assailant enough to run. My daughter was mugged several months ago late at night and nearly home. She set her personal alarm off and several people came out of their houses to see and the guy just grabbed her mobile and ran off. It could have been worse. So also get a personal alarm (a very noisy one).
Stardust
Quote from: stardust on June 13, 2010, 02:42:58 AM
Hi,
We do need to be aware of our surroundings and who is in front, behind and to the side of us. I have done Judo but also carry a personal alarm, they do work and confuses your assailant enough to run. My daughter was mugged several months ago late at night and nearly home. She set her personal alarm off and several people came out of their houses to see and the guy just grabbed her mobile and ran off. It could have been worse. So also get a personal alarm (a very noisy one).
Stardust
You know, this is the first I've heard of a personal alarm. It's sort of the same in concept as the "police whistle" that is popular to carry, but at 130 dB, a personal alarm sounds like it could attract a lot more attention, and cause some serious hearing loss.
Arena gladiators were one time a sport too but I wouldn't necessarily call those fighters ineffective on the street, in their time period.
Not all martial arts are dance around like a drunken monkey and base their effectiveness on a point system or the ability to perform a kata flawlessly.
That said, I'll take my military unit over your street gang anyday. :D
We can all be bad arses if we want to. Truth be told, we're all human, we're all vulnerable at one point in time or another, and the best we can do is be prepared mentally and physically.
Regardless of how you might make yourself more capable of taking care of yourself, there will ALWAYS be someone bigger and badder and faster... luckier and smarter... whatever.
I think it's pointless to argue, especially here on the net where everyone can be a superhero or supervillain. But offering advice and being supportive? Priceless.
Quote from: glendagladwitch on June 13, 2010, 08:36:27 AM
You know, this is the first I've heard of a personal alarm. It's sort of the same in concept as the "police whistle" that is popular to carry, but at 130 dB, a personal alarm sounds like it could attract a lot more attention, and cause some serious hearing loss.
Yep, you will not be able to hear again for a month but at least you'll be safe, lol.
Stardust
Quote from: stardust on June 13, 2010, 02:05:13 PM
Yep, you will not be able to hear again for a month but at least you'll be safe, lol.
Stardust
hehe or longer ... Those alarms are painful. at around 100db most people start feeling the pain ... 130db is just nasty.
I don't think they're meant, so much, to gain attention as they are meant to put people in pain. Sort of the same thing as Mace or Pepper Spray, I suppose.
140 dB is a gunshot. 120 dB is a thunderclap from a bolt of lightning hitting right next to you. 130 dB is half the perceived loudness of a gunshot, and twice that of a bolt of lightning, and it's going on continuously, right next to you. Permanent hearing loss starts at 85 dB. I can't believe it's legal. That's just insane.
I think we all can agree that nobody is invincible, not even the top general of the U.S. Marine Corps. However, the more steps you take, the more you mimimize your chances of being injured or killed. It becomes a probability issue. Simple steps may take your chances of being injured/killed from 1/50 to 1/10,000. Rather than make another long post, I can sum up the steps everyone should take as follows:
1. Situational awareness
a. Pay attention to your environment when in public.
b. Relax awareness at home while utilizing other methods of protection (locked doors, dog, alarm, etc.).
c. Avoid environments where you know there is likely to be a problem and you don't need to go there.
2. Mental training
a. Formulate "what-if" scenarios about possible situations and think about how you would solve them (i.e. home invasion, witnessing an armed robbery, etc.).
b. Understand what force you are capable of using for your own defense (or on behalf of others) and be willing to use it when necessary (don't pull a gun if you aren't willing to use it).
3. Defense Tactics
a. Flee when you can (don't let ego get in the way if running away can save your life).
b. If you have to physically fight (fists, feet, etc.) fight dirty until you can get away.
c. Carry weapons you are comfortable with, learn proper retention techniques, and use them properly when necessary.
4. Legal help
a. If someone violates you or your property, try to get as much information you can to help get them prosecuted (description, cell phone photo, license plate).
b. If you have injured or killed someone in self-defense, do not talk to the police or admit anything until you have a lawyer. Let the attorney handle it for you.
Quote from: Epigania on June 13, 2010, 04:53:15 PM
hehe or longer ... Those alarms are painful. at around 100db most people start feeling the pain ... 130db is just nasty.
I don't think they're meant, so much, to gain attention as they are meant to put people in pain. Sort of the same thing as Mace or Pepper Spray, I suppose.
Anyone know if they are legal in Australia? Who makes them? Don't make a spam just which company :laugh:
Cindy
defense devices.com
personal alarms are under personal defense devices
Mace and spitfire are 2 brand names
Quote from: Epigania on June 13, 2010, 04:53:15 PM
hehe or longer ... Those alarms are painful. at around 100db most people start feeling the pain ... 130db is just nasty.
I don't think they're meant, so much, to gain attention as they are meant to put people in pain. Sort of the same thing as Mace or Pepper Spray, I suppose.
Maybe like Mace or Pepper Spray that you spray in your own face as well.
I must say,
When I was going through stages of denial, I took up Freestyle Ninjutsu (before transition) I was very well built because of it. Well, for a guy anyway. I had a 6 pack, massive biceps and wow was I good at it. (My Sensei taught me more advanced techniques above the rest of the class, I was always teamed with the higher belts, and I was always used in the demonstrations) But yeah, when I woke up and realized just what I was doing, I basically stopped going. 2 Years later, I transitioned (Am female now ^_^) And on HRT, and with that, only 3 months into HRT, I weigh 72KG (158lbs) where as, before hormones, I weighed over 84KG (185lbs) all the weight that was lost was pure muscle (Gosh I love Androcur / Siterone [Cyproterone Acetate])
I now have a nice female look about me, lack of a figure though, and my breasts are developing quite well, I almost fill an A Cup, and have already purchased my B Cup bra which I will need soon, once my boobs start to stretch.
But yeah, long story short, If I needed to, I could pull off some of the techniques I know from my Ninjutsu, but really, I would not train due to taking Cyproterone Acetate which actually increases muscle recovery time by around 10 fold. I'd most likely damage a muscle if I did train now days.
I wouldn't recommend training in martial arts or anything that intensive whilst taking anti-androgens. :)
OMG Just realized, I write a story just about every time I reply to someone LOL!
If someone decides to show up to my home to attack me in a hate crime, it would actually be quite funny to see the look on their face. Instead of it being a question of "cell phone or teddy bear?" it will be "rifle or shotgun?"
i used to train in Isshin-Ryu. i was a blue belt but i stopped when i noticed that i was a 4'7 90 lb person being able to physically pick up and throw a 6'4 250lb man
Hey there!
I've been in Martial Arts for many many years. I've even taught it too. I have studied SHOTOKAN, and GOSHIN styles of Karate. I have a black 1st degree in one and 2nd degree in the other.
I HIGHLY recommend it to all the girls on here. Pick one that seems to work for you. I recommend it for several reasons. Unfortunately, us T-Girls are prime targets for A-holes. Martial Arts can give you the confidence to get out of some ugly situations. However, you CANNOT STOP A GUN. My advice is get enrolled in a program that suits you, and take any and ALL precautions like Mace/Spray, stun gun (where allowed) and have your cell phone handy and ready wherever you walk alone.
You can STILL be girly and yet have the POWER to defend yourselves!
There is a plethora of info on the net about all the different styles. I would suggest you go to a class or two and just sit and watch without participating. Just watch. Look at the instructor and how he comports himself and with his students. Look at the stances and ask yourself if your body type can handle some of that (I can't do some styles because the stances are done for shorter people than I). Ask about the philosophy behind the art you are looking into too.
There is a very cool Martial Art that was developed in Israel that many countries are adopting for their troops called Krav Maga. It combines a lot of Martial Arts and some boxing.
Hope this helps.
GIRL POWER Activated!! LOL
Hugs,
Stephie