I was so disappointed to read this from a prominent and 'proud' MtF person the other day:
"I am as hetrosexual <sic> as the next guy"
(emphasis on 'guy')
I wanted to ignore it by thinking she was just trying to be 'stealth' but the identity she tries to show on the WWW is completely different. Many other people treat her with much respect in the online community. I won't name names of course.
The quoted comment was a follow-on from a public newspaper article in which the person appeared enhomme talking about GLBT rights. However, from what I read on the net about this person, they've had every opportunity to transition (acceptance, job etc).
What hope does the TG community have if our 'ambassadors' act like this?
Everyone has their opinion. I have mine. What I did worked for me. That's all I need to know. It will be twenty years this coming March. And I must say that I have NEVER had any regrets.
Cindi
Quote from: Tinkerbell on November 18, 2006, 11:01:38 PM
I find it trite and offensive that other transsexuals will label a pre-operative MTF transsexual "a man" just because she has not had SRS. >:( >:(
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
I've always looked at it like some sort of TG pyramid with the post-ops being at the top, like its a way to marginalize those less then post-op. Worse yet it places too much of the burden of our sense of ourselves on being post-op as if that's we're less then human until then.
To the world at large, we're all the same shade of freak.
QuoteI've always looked at it like some sort of TG pyramid with the post-ops being at the top, like its a way to marginalize those less then post-op.
I've run into a few too many people who act as though a hierarchy exists with post op at the top and crossdresser at the bottom. Grrrrr! This kind of thing makes me mad. >:(
zythyra
Quote from: zythyra on November 19, 2006, 03:33:30 PM
QuoteI've always looked at it like some sort of TG pyramid with the post-ops being at the top, like its a way to marginalize those less then post-op.
I've run into a few too many people who act as though a hierarchy exists with post op at the top and crossdresser at the bottom. Grrrrr! This kind of thing makes me mad. >:(
zythyra
To be fair though, we just as easily accept the hierarchy and see GRS as the holy grail. Am I the only one that's seen GRS groupies at support group meetings?
Quote from: Refugee on November 19, 2006, 03:38:28 PM
Am I the only one that's seen GRS groupies at support group meetings?
No you're not. I've always said that sometimes all of this reminds me of highschool, ....the nerds sitting together in one end, the cheerleaders in the middle, the thinkers there, the quiet ones here, the football players on the other end..............do you get the picture?
The irony is that no matter how hard we try to include or exclude one another from a particular group, we are all
being cooked at the same time in society's pot.tinkerbell :icon_chick:
That's right tinkerbell, that's ummm "ahhh" me they could be referring to?
Boo Hoo my lady side is gonna cry now!
I've had my share of bad exeriences with transitioned folks who somehow just stopped associating because they either portrayed that they were better or no longer need me?
weird!
I'll be curious as well to see this one unmasked!
Gettem Tinkerbell! :o
Ricki
While it is understandable why a post-op TS may want to live in stealth, and shies away from the TG community, it does not make them Lords and Ladies of the Realm.
Personally, I do tend to give a little more respect to those who have been living their true gender longer than I have (regardless of TS-pre or post, Androgyne, Crossdresser or whatever) because they have gone through more than I have, however, it doesn't mean that they are any better than I am. Kind of a "respect your elders" thing, where elder is not based on age, but rather issues faced.
I also am curious who this bozo is.
Quote from: Tinkerbell on September 01, 2006, 05:52:18 PM
I find it trite and offensive that other transsexuals will label a pre-operative MTF transsexual "a man" just because she has not had SRS. >:( >:(
Dad-gum straight!!! (It's hard to express the proper words while keeping my language "G Rated") There are a million reasons why a transsexual has not had (or may never have) SRS...until you become them and live their life, you have no right to criticize or treat them with anything less than respect.
Spitting nails.....Laurie
Quote from: LaurieOWhile it is understandable why a post-op TS may want to live in stealth, and shies away from the TG community, it does not make them Lords and Ladies of the Realm.
it doesn't? because I was planning to crown myself as a Lady of Realm after my SRS ;) ;) ;D >:D
Quote from: LaurieOI also am curious who this bozo is.
Hmmm...no names under my rules :-X.... :-X :-X :-X all I am going to say is that we are all the same as far as
transsexuals are concerned, pre-, non, post, FTM, MTF. :P
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
It's just group dynamics. That's all it is. Put any group of people together for a short period of time and you will see similar behaviours. There will be leaders and followers. There will be cliuques and there will be loners. There will always be a cruel element as well. There will be those who want no organization and those that do. That's what makes life interesting!
;)
Cindi
Now I can recognize that to a certain extent those who have transitioned completely would want to consider themselves a full male or female, but its important to not break off communication with those you have met along the way. I hope that the people who move though this site are forming friendships and not just looking for a few kind words to help them deal then disgard us all when they've used us as much as they needed to.
-Us
Quote from: Marq and Mia on November 20, 2006, 02:02:14 AM
Now I can recognize that to a certain extent those who have transitioned completely would want to consider themselves a full male or female, but its important to not break off communication with those you have met along the way. I hope that the people who move though this site are forming friendships and not just looking for a few kind words to help them deal then disgard us all when they've used us as much as they needed to.
-Us
If you've seen Transgeneration, two of the MtFs profiled ended up breaking off their friendship. They grew apart,it happens in all of society. I don't feel any obligation to stay friends with someone just becuase they're TS. Its no different then when well meaning people try to play matchmaker for two GLBT people who's only connection is their queerness.
Yeah I was reading another post somewhere about completing a transition and then attempting to live as normal a life as possible in stealth. I recognize that its important for each of us to determine at what level they wish to stay involved in the community. Staying around to help others is not going to be for everyone since many just want to get on with their life and not have to relive the difficulties all over again through other peoples experiences.
Of course anyone that does stay around to act as mentors for those just starting or going through big changes are always appreciated but I understand that role is not going to suit us all. People are going to put as much or take as much from the community as they want or need to, and it should be different for everyone.
Marq and Mia
I find it repulsive to think, that someone can look down the end of their nose, at someone who is struggling through the same type of crap that they themselves have been through.
My Irish fire is lit.
My conversations and other interactions with those in our "community" shall be tempered with the knowledge of the existance of individuals such as this.
Calling it status quo does not make it right.
Queen Tink,
Your loyal subject curtsies humbly at your feet.
Heather Rose
When I find a strong opinion that I don't agree with, I smile and back away. Everyone has a different perspective and as long as it doesn't cause any violence, they are entitled.
Cindi
I agree with Cindy. Group dynamics will always take effect in any group of people, it's unavoidable. Personally I have yet to meet a post-op person who thought they were better than me or better than anyone else, in fact most have been very gracious, and it's disingenuous of us to start painting post-ops with broad paint brushes just because of a couple of, shall we say, "Bad apples". Certainly there will be post-ops with attitude good bad and otherwise, just as there are pre-ops who think along the same lines, so why on earth get your panties in a knot.
Finally we need to quote sources for our topics if that source is the basis of the topic, otherwise it is just hearsay and should be treated as such.
Quote from: hannahrichterI was so disappointed to read this from a prominent and 'proud' MtF person the other day:
"I am as hetrosexual <sic> as the next guy"
(emphasis on 'guy')
I wanted to ignore it by thinking she was just trying to be 'stealth' but the identity she tries to show on the WWW is completely different. Many other people treat her with much respect in the online community. I won't name names of course.
The quoted comment was a follow-on from a public newspaper article in which the person appeared enhomme talking about GLBT rights. However, from what I read on the net about this person, they've had every opportunity to transition (acceptance, job etc).
What hope does the TG community have if our 'ambassadors' act like this?
If this information is public knowledge then there is no problem with naming this person and the article sources should be named as well.
Steph
Ok, let's really put a twist on this then. I know you are all talking TS and I am IS, but I still can't afford GRS much the same as some TS' can't. Saying this, I have a uterus, an overy as well as a testis (not 2 as I should have), natural growing breasts (B cup) with no HRT and a partial opening below my penis area with a highly sensitive spot above it. I would like to see this person or anyone with the same beliefs to try to define me male since I can't afford GRS and won't have it done unless we convince the government to pay for it through our medicare system here. If I am not women then I must be an ogre since I can't possibly be male either. :D And I do not think any less of any one of my sisters in here just because of their position on this supposed pyramid thingy, not everyone can afford the ultimate dream. :angel:
Quote from: Kim on November 25, 2006, 01:01:08 PM
Ok, let's really put a twist on this then. I know you are all talking TS and I am IS, but I still can't afford GRS much the same as some TS' can't. Saying this, I have a uterus, an overy as well as a testis (not 2 as I should have), natural growing breasts (B cup) with no HRT and a partial opening below my penis area with a highly sensitive spot above it. I would like to see this person or anyone with the same beliefs to try to define me male since I can't afford GRS and won't have it done unless we convince the government to pay for it through our medicare system here. If I am not women then I must be an ogre since I can't possibly be male either. :D And I do not think any less of any one of my sisters in here just because of their position on this supposed pyramid thingy, not everyone can afford the ultimate dream. :angel:
Amen! :)
tinkerbell :icon_chick:
Hopefully this person is a small percentage of what we are not about or like...
I respect what people want and want to do.
I have been on sites where once transitioned poeple quietly left and went away and i respected that..
I followed a site years back and some of the biggest complainers and so called advocates after transitioning did not bothered by anyone? That to me was a double standard they endorsed all the things we spoke of asked for help and communication and enjoyed everyones conversation and all the while acted as part of something, then when their transition was comlete they were done with the group? I did not really allow myself to be bothered by that but after a while i had emailed the one lady with some issues and asking her for help and she replied that she was basically on a higher level now and she did not want to look back or be bothered?
hmmm I thoguht and it seemed for over a year she was one of the more active aggressors and seekers of help and support?
I guess if she came off like i need help to my destination but once there i will be done with you people she would not have gotten as much help or support?
i do understand though that after major changes like this people do change and must move on sometimes...
ricki
I think some people have not understood my first post. This individual is not a postop but MtoF preop.
What made me so ashamed of this person is they have every chance to transition: acceptance, family, job, support usw
BUT yet they are so proud of being a "quasi-public figure" male (appearing as male at GLBT rallies, newspapers, blogs and covered by many news networks on the WWW)
I know I read in other parts of the site about "pseudo-transexuals". Maybe this person is one. I dont know. They certainly "talk the talk" on the WWW on their very popular transgender website.
For those who have to struggle daily with being accepted for who we truly are, it is very hard to take and depressing to see such people being such hypocrites.
Hannahrichter is Elleane, for anyone who has not yet figured it out. She may deny it but this has her fingerprints all over it. I didn't attend the GLBT rally as male. The use of the word guy does not necessarily denote sex.
QuoteMain Entry: guy
Function: noun
Etymology: Guy Fawkes
1 often capitalized : a grotesque effigy of Guy Fawkes traditionally displayed and burned in England on Guy Fawkes Day
2 chiefly British : a person of grotesque appearance
3 a : MAN, FELLOW b : PERSON -- used in plural to refer to the members of a group regardless of sex <saw her and the rest of the guys>
4 : INDIVIDUAL, CREATURE <the other dogs pale in companion to this little guy>
I used term 3B. You should know by now that I am very precise in my words and what I say.
As for my sexual orientation I am heterosexual. It's funny you are the only person who has a problem with my quote. The entire gay population of Clarksville loved it.
You were fired from the staff due to a previous stalking incident and now you do it again. This is not the first time Elleane has tried to out me. I received an anonymous threat to disclose my being a TS on the town's newspaper forums. While I can't prove it, the only person who knows and who has a grudge is... You guessed it! Elleane.
You really need to cut the stalking Elleane it's beyond creepy, you are beyond creepy. get over it, get a life, and stay the ->-bleeped-<- out of mine. *pardon the language here, it's warranted*.
For the rest of you I don't hide who or what I am. At the same time I don't advertise it. I live in a small Southern town. If someone asks me I tell them the truth. I am out to my family and friends. I am out to the GLBT community in town. Heck most of the rest of town probably knows. When I feel I pass well enough I will change my name legally. At that point I will use the name Susan with everyone. I dress full time. I get maam'd occasionally. I do not wear makeup. Ask me any questions and I will answer them. But I am ashamed that some of you bought into Elleanes character assassination attempt.
Oh as for the title of this topic, Shame is when you are doing something underhanded or being deceitful. I never say or do anything in public or private that I would not want to share each and every one of you. If you live your lives in the same way, you never have to feel shame again.
Quote from: Steph on December 24, 2006, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Steph on December 24, 2006, 12:15:30 PM
Hello Susan.
I just thought that you should be aware of this topic started by hannahrichter here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,7926.0.html
You will notice my reply, and shortly afterwards Hanna emailed me and said that she was referring to you and the fact that you attended a GLBT rally as X. She sent me a link to the Newspaper article, and I contacted the writer as follows and he finally got back to me:
QuoteMs. Craxford,
What was in the paper was the extent of my interview with Mr. X. I just asked him why he attended the rally and what he thought of the proposed amendment.
X
Quote
On 11/22/06 7:23 PM, "The Craxford's" <X> wrote:
Hello X
I was directed to the article below by an acquaintance and I would be very interested in seeing the whole article particularly the interview with X, if that is possible.
The article:
X
Thanks in advance.
Sincerely yours
Stephanie Craxford
Ontario, Canada
I'm not sure if you have a history with this person, or why she seems to be maligning you on your own web site. I don't see where there is a problem with you doing an interview as X as many of us have done in similar situations.
Regardless, I just thought that you should be aware of this topic hon, as the topic is about you.
Steph
Hi everyone,
You know? To start a thread to critisize someone in this manner is a bit shameful. If you have something to say, say it. If someone thinks anyone here is harming the community to the point that the rest of us need to know about it, then call it. I hate riddles and from the very beginning I already assumed there was an axe to grind, even though I was unaware they were speaking about Susan.
Everything I need to know about Susan is contained in this website. She seems very forthright and honest and seems very no-nonsense to me. I like that about this site. I like the fact that flaming is not allowed nor back-biting or really anything negative.
The amount of effort she must have put in starting this site, not to mention actually running it tells me about her commitment to our community and I for one, if I have not said so before, am grateful. I know I don't contribute a lot, but I sure do get a lot. We are not all the same, we have different needs.
I know that our community may never be able to pull together for a variety of reasons. I totally understand why some want to live in stealth. I never wanted to be a transsexual. That is my label now. All my accomplishments diminished, my dreams discounted and my desire to live a life without guilt and shame are looked upon with disgust by a large percentage of our society. Who would willingly choose to identify with us? It's a handicap. That means only people with the desire to really help others through this can be expected to stay around and help.
Do some think they are better than others? Sure, but this is in every social grouping everywhere. It's not uncommon for people to hold that thier values are the correct ones and anyone who does not share those values must be inferior.
It is up to each one of us to find our own way through this. It's places like this, and people like this that make that task easier. The thing about free advise is this. Take what is useful to you, and leave the rest. People can not be treated inferior because they decide what is best for them, is not what was best for someone else.
And lastly, one of the most important functions of this site is keeping it's members anonymous. I am completely out now and don't really care who knows, but that was not always true. There was a time when being outted would have really hurt me, and my family. I was blackmailed for years by my ex-wife. It is up to each person to decide how and what to keep secret and trying to fault Susan for this, I find extremely hipocritical.
Love always,
Elizabeth
Quote from: hannahrichter on December 24, 2006, 03:19:49 AM
I think some people have not understood my first post. This individual is not a postop but MtoF preop.
What made me so ashamed of this person is they have every chance to transition: acceptance, family, job, support usw...
For those who have to struggle daily with being accepted for who we truly are, it is very hard to take and depressing to see such people being such hypocrites.
The one thing she left out which is unarguably the important to transitioning is money, I have food, clothing, rent, credit card, cable, gas, insurance, the costs related to the web site, and the fact that I the fact that the job I am working doesn't pay a lot but it does cover most of the expenses of running a site as large as this one would normally incur (Bandwidth fees). After that I am generally left $50-100 per week extra.
I bring this up not to sounds pitiful, which I am sure how it does sound, but to point out to anyone who has any doubt remaining about me why I have not fully transitioned yet, and why I am still a preop after all these years.
I have considered adding Google Adwords to the site at some point, and possibly a donation box to allow those who wish the ability to help cover the site expenses, transition expenses, and surgical expenses. I have resisted monetizing this site all these years but may be close to finally exploring that as an option.