Just wondering what's the everyday living as a female feels like?
I'm in the early phase of women coming to accept me as one, and at this stage it's a little odd at times.
Women around here (dunno about elsewhere) have these little ways to show that acceptance. And I haven't been conditioned to pick up on these little gestures, resulting in a few awkward moments.
A gal at the office this week gave me this little pink rubber band looking thing shaped like a seal. I think she called it a snap bracelet.
When my reaction made it absurdly obvious that I didn't get what was happening, she spelled out that it was a "you're a girl" gift. The look on her face left me with the impression that she was genuinely disappointed.
Aside from specific things like that, I've noticed that most of the guys don't talk to me any more, and the ones that do seem to behave in a more courteous & friendly manner toward me. (A fellow stood up from a table the other evening to greet me as I prepared to leave, which I don't recall happening pre-transition.)
And the women I know who are willing to have anything to do with me have changed their disposition entirely. It's hard to pinpoint in detail, but they seem to have become significantly more comfortable around me. Before, they were more guarded.
I can't say I've noticed differences in people holding doors for me, because people will do that here regardless of gender. People take pride in holding doors for others here, and will do so as a whole group passes them into a restaurant.
The biggest difference, of course, is that I no longer present myself as somebody walking around with a big secret, which drove people nuts. No matter what I did, people could tell that something didn't add up. And now I think people find me more agreeable as a person, because my presentation is more genuine.
People have less serious tones and faces around you. At least, that's what I notice in retrospect as male. But that also means people smile more at you. Of course, I'm just talking about everyday strangers here.
I do not pass quite yet but I have noticed some serious changes in my treatment socialy.
Women actually have conversations with me and engage me socialy, instead of ignoring me, and men seem to be very uncomfortable around me instead of trying to include me in the group. Transphobia basicaly. I can see it in their faces.
Not to say all women are nice and all men are ass's. Just a trend. I have had a woman come to a dead stop and stare at me in shock in the market parking lot one day and I have had men who are friends switch from shaking my hand in greeting and parting too hugz and verbaly expressed affection durring such moments.
To answer your question instead of meandering all around:
It feels normal. Or normalizing at any rate. I have some time to go before I have completely transitioned and actually pass. So ask this question again in a year or 2. LOL
Fantastic
FTM in transition here, have been passing as a guy 100% for 2 years now, here my life-long observations of what is different when you are treated as female:
It is more difficult or easier to convince people that you know what you're talking about depending on the topic. (E. g. guys = no idea of fashion, girls = no idea of technical stuff, that's how people think).
You are treated more carefully and like if you were frail or something. People assume you cannot lift heavy weights, not even 20 pounds. People smile more at you. People take you less seriously in general. In conversations with several people, they will listen less to what you say. You awake more protective instincts in other people and sometimes are treated almost like an elder kid. (But I always looked like a woman-child and younger than I was; I was (and am) petite, had a childish face with big eyes etc. so this might not be the case for every woman. I still awake protective instincts now, by the way, but less though I look younger.)
Guys will tell you less personal things than before, girls more.
When body contact happens, you will be touched as if you could break easily apart, so more carefully and less "tough" than a guy would be touched. (Always made me feel like I was some Humpty Dumpty creature.)
A few of these differences are due to society, a few are due to ingrained biological response to cuteness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness)) as females look somewhat more child-like than males, and a few are both effects working together.
Try to figure out for yourself if these changes are acceptable for you. For me, being treated as a female was awful, but I don't think you wanted our biased FTM opinions on this subject. ;)
Absolutely wonderful! I wake up happy every day as I am living and passing as a woman. I was never happy as a man as I was a small feminine male and was scorned, picked on and called a girl. How right they were! I no longer have to hide my female side and I enjoy every day. Next years SRS will complete the process.
Pam
for me...often lining up for more than 15 minutes in a busy mall holding your bladder!
Quote from: milktea on August 07, 2010, 01:01:42 PM
for me...often lining up for more than 15 minutes in a busy mall holding your bladder!
Before transition (and passing), then I just went into the men's restroom saying: "Sorry guys, I have a cystitis and don't have the time to wait in front of the ladies' restroom." And looked demonstratively away from their dicks. No problem ever.
I am so jealous of you people that are small and feminine even as guys. I'm not and I hate it.
Men smile at you. Some stare at you. Most drop their eyes to check out your cleavage if you're sporting it.
You aren't expected to do everything for yourself. Men will lift heavy things for you. Some will do things for you they won't do for a man (like delivering a car battery to your home when yours dies - happened yesterday.)
I've had a lot of instances where men have said, "I am not supposed to do this..." or "I don't normally do this..." and I know it's because they are dealing with a woman. I NEVER heard that before.
And I will admit, I am taking advantage of this new-found benefit. HRT is still whittling away my strength and I can't do a lot of what I used to do so I have no problem accepting help from the stronger sex. ;D
It is angering and demeaning to know that you are seen as lesser and worthless. You can't do anything and if you have an opinion, shut up no one wants to hear it. You have no right to live is the way your treated and only worth what a guy can get from you before they throw you away.
I have issues.
I am not quite sure whether this is related with passability or looking like a wome, but there have been some significant changes.
Some examples. Men, especially ugly 50s, always stare at me whereas a few young men smile at me. Women, especially aged ones, study me. Men make light of me, especially when I am driving. Young women can bravely scold me for my minor mistakes. A positive aspect is that some men offer help to me, especially when I try to park my car in narrow space. I have a lot of female friends who like to chat with me regarding beauty, fashion and kids.
And, finally, both men and women ask me for direction too easily and too often, and I am tired of it.
Barbie~~
If you're heavy or middle-aged, men tend to ignore you. If you have cleavage and are reasonably young/attractive, men can have whole conversations with your chest and never look you in the eye, and (insult to injury), they'll compliment your beautiful eyes (!?) or your great posture.
If you have sex with more than one guy, you're a slut. If you don't want kids, people want to know why, and they often assume that your significant other is the problem.
If you're in the auto parts store looking for motor oil and know where to find it, a clerk often asks you how he can help you, or he rushes over to point out how to find the thirty-weight that you already have in your hands. If you take your car in for repairs, they might try to tell you that your catalytic converter needs replacing when you don't even have one.
If your car stalls out on the freeway, the CHP officer might sit there and wait with you while the tow truck comes. If you're fairly young and act clueless, you can get out of a ticket if the officer is a straight male.
If you get into a relationship with a jack-of-all-trades, you're in danger of never learning how to fix things on your own--but I think that's more of a problem for trans men and cis girls than trans women.
Some people are more tolerant when you make a mistake. Some are less so. Some don't take your ideas seriously until a guy proposes it. Professors might assume that you're into feminist scholarship (I was into masculinity and gay studies, myself). Some men, when meeting you and ascertaining that you actually have a brain in your head, will be intimidated. But men don't pull that "who has the stronger handshake" crap and try to squeeze all the life out of you.
Other women will talk to you openly about all the lovely details of their periods, pregnancies, abortions, and female trouble, not to mention the size and shape of their husband's apparatus.
You're not considered weird if you like makeup, clothes, hairstyles, and shopping. If you don't like these things, you're something of an oddball. If you're into sports, people often assume that you're really not all that athletic or competitive, especially if you're on a cheer squad that busts its butt and performs all sorts of difficult acrobatic maneuvers and only gets one month off a year, when other sports teams get months and months off.
You do get greater leeway with clothing and hair and gender expression. Otherwise, I would have had to transition much earlier...hmm, I guess there's a downside.
Sometimes your chest is an unbearable nuisance. I couldn't run properly, walk unencumbered, or (when I started getting really big) sleep comfortably on my stomach. On the other hand, my chest ensured lots of positive male reactions when I was younger. And since I have always been in straight relationships and have gotten sexual satisfaction out of my chest, I have to admit that I lost something when I had top surgery. But I don't regret that loss.
P.S. Of course, not all of these have to do with other people's treatment of you. I got carried away.
I feel good, and natural and womanly lol.
Dunno, what else can I say. The absence of dysphoria is magic. To be seen by the world as who you are is incredible.
Quote from: LordKAT on August 07, 2010, 02:11:24 PM
It is angering and demeaning to know that you are seen as lesser and worthless. You can't do anything and if you have an opinion, shut up no one wants to hear it. You have no right to live is the way your treated and only worth what a guy can get from you before they throw you away.
I have issues.
This was the most shocking discovery during my transition. I mean, I kind of knew that women are not treated as equals before. But it was horrible to find out how extreme the differences are. It makes me sad that some feminists shun FTMs and MTFs away as many of us can provide them with valuable first-hand experiences proving their observations are right. I mean, who else can tell the differences from their own experience, from both sides?
Another horrible finding was - well I was mistaken for a 14- or 15-year old teenage boy for a while (and was 32 at that time). It was incredible how respectless teenage boys are sometimes treated. I mean, sure, they are not adults, but it was not just being treated as a non-adult, it was almost like being treated as a subhuman at times. No wonder many of them become insecure and/or aggressive. However, among the adults, elder females and males (50 years or more) treated me relatively respectfully at that time, while being very protective and gramma/uncle-like, and teenage kids treated me as an equal. Younger people of 20-45 often sucked. Thank God this phase only lasted for about one year. Now I am mistaken for 16-25 while being 35.
Being treated as a female has it's ups and downs like anything in life
Guys go out of their way to open doors for you, they volunteer to carry heavy things for you, they stop to help if you have car trouble, they're always checkin' you out and tend to talk to your boobs and think you don't know anything about anything
Women tend to compare boobs and want to chit chat a bit
Having lived almost all my adult life as a female and most of my childhood kind of in between I am tempted to say just Normal and leave it at that.
The trouble is I can't go back to the start and live my life as a male. So I have only limited point of comparison.
All I can say is that I don't really notice anyone treating me in any way which I have problems with... :)
Ok, Fencesitter, you summed up a lot of what I was going to write. I was super conscious of it in the beginning but not so much anymore. I think much could be said about differences in career and position held too :)
Quote from: Fencesitter on August 07, 2010, 11:35:17 AM
FTM in transition here, have been passing as a guy 100% for 2 years now, here my life-long observations of what is different when you are treated as female:
It is more difficult or easier to convince people that you know what you're talking about depending on the topic. (E. g. guys = no idea of fashion, girls = no idea of technical stuff, that's how people think).
You are treated more carefully and like if you were frail or something. People assume you cannot lift heavy weights, not even 20 pounds. People smile more at you. People take you less seriously in general. In conversations with several people, they will listen less to what you say. You awake more protective instincts in other people and sometimes are treated almost like an elder kid. (But I always looked like a woman-child and younger than I was; I was (and am) petite, had a childish face with big eyes etc. so this might not be the case for every woman. I still awake protective instincts now, by the way, but less though I look younger.)
Guys will tell you less personal things than before, girls more.
When body contact happens, you will be touched as if you could break easily apart, so more carefully and less "tough" than a guy would be touched. (Always made me feel like I was some Humpty Dumpty creature.)
One thing I think I'll miss is how women react to me. Example, one time I was acting silly and slid across a floor a girl was mopping up, leaving behind dirt. I offered to clean it up, she just looked at me and smiled and said "Don't worry about it!" I insisted, and she again refused sweetly. Also, as somebody suggested, people say "I'm not suppose to do this but.." has happened to me with women quite a bit. For example, I never would've gotten my DL on the day that I did, if I didn't hear that line, lol.
However, that will probably just be reversed and men will be that way with me. Men already help me carry stuff, I am quite small in frame. To see somebody that is 5'5" 130 lbs trying to load a treadmill into the back of a car kinda screams "HELP ME PLEASE!!!".
Quote from: LordKAT on August 07, 2010, 02:11:24 PM
It is angering and demeaning to know that you are seen as lesser and worthless. You can't do anything and if you have an opinion, shut up no one wants to hear it. You have no right to live is the way your treated and only worth what a guy can get from you before they throw you away.
I have issues.
Now THAT is what I experience! Not to mention dirty looks from many cis gendered women, gossip and catty behavior in the workplace. Hmmm, I wonder why?
@Arch
Agree 100%. (Apart from the chest thing, I have never gotten any satisfaction out of it.)
Quote from: Arch on August 07, 2010, 03:27:26 PMIf your car stalls out on the freeway, the CHP officer might sit there and wait with you while the tow truck comes.
A little addition: this is perfectly okay, as it's somewhat weird to stand around alone on a freeway as a woman, you just don't feel secure. Oh, that's another point. Walking alone in the streets at night is more awkward as a female. Although as a male, you are not secure either, as you may be beaten up horribly which is not any better (my first boyfriend and a male friend of him had been beaten up horribly by neo-nazi skins as he was a punk, and that left him with a full-blown post-traumatic stress disorder).
But you somehow feel more secure as a male. I must add, the three major groups of potentially dangerous trouble-makers we have here on the streets in Germany are drunken groups of neo-nazi skins, young turkish male gangs and drunken hooligan gangs. Now hooligan gangs causing trouble we don't have in my city as far as I know. Ice hockey is big here as we have a great ice hockey team. Soccer is less popular as our soccer team sucks, and ice hockey hools just don't seem to exist, never heard of any. Ice hockey fans are cool and peaceful.
For the Turkish gangs, I have a good Italian, Yugoslavian or even Turkish passing by nature, and they don't beat up Turks, Yugos or Italians they don't know. For the neo-nazi skins I still pass as a German or at least they are not sure if I am German or foreigner. Plus this city is so dominated by Turkish gangs that our neo-nazi skins always seem intimidated when they go to town and dare not cause trouble here apart from one district where I never ever go. So none of these groups bother me. Plus, I always wear "neutral" clothes which don't give away my nationality or sexual orientation and I know exactly why.
I might still get in trouble one day if a Turkish or neo-nazi gang spots me as gay, but then I might still talk myself out of trouble by saying I'm just a French guy (which is true). French guys are always considered as behaving flaming even if they are straight. And our German neo-nazis hate foreigners, but can stomach Frenchmen better than many other nationalities.
Well, altogether, I don't worry too much here. Just the danger of being violated got swapped by the danger of being beaten up, and the latter is not big in my case. I'm small and frail, but anyway, you get mostly beaten up by gangs, so it does not make a big difference.
Quote from: Fencesitter on August 07, 2010, 04:37:28 PM
Walking alone in the streets at night is more awkward.
Walking alone on the streets any time of the day can feel awkward depending on where you live. I don't particularly enjoy being gawked at and honked at. Or how about those guys who drive by you ever soooooooo slowly on the side streets? Being female really changes your perspective on many things and you really have to be aware, not only of your surroundings, but who you are talking with at all times as well.
Quote from: Kristyn on August 07, 2010, 04:52:14 PM
Walking alone on the streets any time of the day can feel awkward depending on where you live. I don't particularly enjoy being gawked at and honked at. Or how about those guys who drive by you ever soooooooo slowly on the side streets? Being female really changes your perspective on many things and you really have to be aware, not only of your surroundings, but who you are talking with at all times as well.
Yes, even riding a bicycle isn't much better when most of the guys are going about in big 4x4s
I've even gotten chastised for being out after dark
Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 07, 2010, 05:02:46 PM
Yes, even riding a bicycle isn't much better when most of the guys are going about in big 4x4s
I've even gotten chastised for being out after dark
The biggest thing I learned about being female is that there are a lot of people out there who are just waiting to take advantage of you--both male and female--and you truly have to watch your own back. Some guys will chat you up and make you feel like gold for the sole purpose of having a piece of you and some women will befriend you simply because you have something they want. At least that's how it is in my world.
Hmm. I was assaulted enough times as a white guy in North America that I can't imagine I'll have it much worse as a white gal.
Quote from: Dee_pntx on August 07, 2010, 04:47:00 PMAnd parking lots worry me a bit in the day time and really freak me out at night. I always look around first to see if lot security is near by or other women. I feel safer if there are plenty of women around. Safety in numbers they say. If there are a lot of men around and few or no women, I feel very anxious.
If the guys have no connection to each another, you might still be as secure as with many women around (even if it does not feel so for you). Sometimes, in such situations, guys keep a woman secretly in a corner of their eyes to be aware in case she gets attacked. You might also notice some guys in such situations take an extra distance to you in an effort not to frighten you, or suddenly walk somewhat slower behind you so that the distance increases and you feel more secure after a few dozen footsteps. Observe this behavior for a while, you will be amazed that some guys are considerate and decent.
I've noticed this quite a lot of times before transition and still do now. I also always keep people in the corner of my eyes since long before transition, learned this from my first boy-friend. He was immediately aware if 300 feet away, anything weird happened. His awareness was due to his post-traumatic stress disorder and was somewhat paranoid, but it was very charming, considerate and gentleman-like when someone fell down and he immediately rushed there to help. That's why I adopted his behavior. Plus, I had to learn this "don't be afraid of me" male behavior after changing the sides. Before, I made women afraid of me a couple of times unwillingly. :(
That's one of the worst experiences when you change the side as an FTM. You suddenly become a potential aggressor who could violate women (with what?). You make women afraid of you without wanting to. Although this effect is not strong in my case, I am slim and 5,1 feet tall, most females are taller than me here, it is awful to inspire fear. As I know exactly what it feels like for them.
I have noticed a lot of good things, some bad things. Some people talk to you in a condescending way simply because you're female. They assume you're dumb. Mostly people smile more and are generally nicer and more polite, especially men, which I like. Honestly it's becoming harder to remember what it was like to not be treated as female. I will never ever be anything else, so I'm perfectly okay with it, good or bad. :)
What Fencesitter said is good and true, and after a scary episode last year I am always very aware of what's going on and who happens to be around me. The brutal truth is I can be raped now, and just the thought of that is enough to keep me on alert anytime I'm out, especially when alone.
About rape danger: a pre-op MTF, an acquaintance of my ex-girlfriend, was assaulted in Francfort by a Turkish male gang at night. They wanted to rape her and by undressing her, they found out she was trans. This angered them to a point that instead of raping her, they beat her up horribly and she had a long hospital stay. :(
Now don't get me wrong about the Turks. Most Turks here are pretty decent, it's an interesting culture with tasty (though fatty) food. They came here with nothing more than a suitcase since about 50 years ago and usually, bad education. They took up bad low-class jobs, were treated like sh*t then because they did not look or behave "aryan", worked a lot and built up an existence in a country which has a cold climate, a different religion, is not that used to immigrant waves. And Germany has an extremely different mentality from the Turkish mentality. (German mentality is very special, extreme and unique for a European country and very different from the mediterranean mentality, and it's maybe even closer to Japanese mentality than to any other mentality in Europe. It's hard to deal with unless you work in the Navy.)
The Turks and their offspring had more trouble adapting here than any other foreigners, and they are the biggest group of foreigners we have, so they could form their own subculture. Being low-class immigrants and a remarkable analphabetism rate did not make things easier for their offspring, helping at homework and stuff. Plus, the Turkish language was only put into alphabet about 80 years ago, and the Turkish analphabetism rate has decreased a lot, but is still remarkable and explainable with this background. They have built up so much of their infrastructure that you needn't understand even one word of German to have a job, buy your stuff, rent a room, you needn't deal with German food or ingredients, can do your banking stuff in Turkish etc., at least in my city.
Now the female offspring usually does well at high school and get at least decent low-class jobs if not more. Many young Turkish males do very well, too, but some break off school and then are jobless cast-offs, often without jobs. The girls they date have better education and better jobs, which does not harmonize with the Turkish macho culture. And Turkish people are still treated as second-class people by the Germany. Plus Germany has not taken care of doing any integration programmes for decades (German language training etc.), thinking they will all go back home on their own anyway. Like I said, Germany has no clue when it comes to immigrants. Well and that's where the problem starts - and it ends up with Turkish gangs beating the sh*t out of MTFs. I don't want to excuse this behavior, just explain where that comes from.
Post Merge: August 07, 2010, 02:08:56 PM
Quote from: Dee_pntx on August 07, 2010, 05:44:45 PM
Men will rarely display any facial expressions in public. And when men pass other men in the store or walking, they give this little nod to one another. No smile, nothing. Just a little nod of recognition.
Men do not do that to women, it's a guys only thing.
Women however, we always smile at one another.
Thank you for this hint. Oh sh*t, I should really consider maybe to adapt more. I don't manage to do this nod thing. And I smile a lot. Since passing, I have noticed women get along with me very well (which did not work that well before). Many males seem to have problems with my behavior, though. This might be the reason. But my smile is not mechanical, I smile when I feel like smiling and I don't want to hide it. Should drop the "I'm a Frenchman" sentence more often to explain gender-variant behavior, and learn the nodding thing.
Many guys are considerate, respectful and even rather protective
I have notice that the type of guy tends to change when it gets dark out
But I've also learned to be aware at all times (something I learned long before transitioning)
Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 07, 2010, 06:15:54 PM
Many guys are considerate, respectful and even rather protective
I have notice that the type of guy tends to change when it gets dark out
Protective guys tend to have families and to protect them and be around them, so they are not that much out at night.
Post Merge: August 07, 2010, 06:21:15 PM
Quote from: SydneyTinker on August 07, 2010, 05:14:44 PM
Hmm. I was assaulted enough times as a white guy in North America that I can't imagine I'll have it much worse as a white gal.
What do you mean by that, and what happened to you?
Quote from: Dee_pntx on August 07, 2010, 05:44:45 PM
Men will rarely display any facial expressions in public. And when men pass other men in the store or walking, they give this little nod to one another. No smile, nothing. Just a little nod of recognition.
Men do not do that to women, it's a guys only thing.
Women however, we always smile at one another. Unless you're a real bitch with a stick up your backside. So like in the store when you pass another woman on an isle you usually exchange this little smile with the other woman. A recognition thing.
But women rarely smile at men like that unless they have "intentions" in mind.
Women will usually avoid the glances of men, not meeting gazes and not smiling. It's like if you do the guy will think you're coming on to him and then you have a horny man to contend with. :(
Men get horny if the wind blows.
I live alone so sometimes I have to do home repairs or have to repair lawn care stuff when it breaks. I can not afford to pay people to fix things for me.
I've found that people in general DO assume that women are less mechanically inclined and they treated us accordingly. So, as to not draw undue attention to myself, when I have to go looking for things that men normally do, I play the dipstick chick role.
Like when I went looking for a lawnmower part, I told them "I need that thing that connects the blade thing so when you push the lever the blades spin" rather than ask for the specific part, of which I knew the name and part number of. I let the guy look it up for me and he seemed happy to help out the dippy chick. I was on a mission for my spouse ya know. ;)
I do the same thing when I go the the Lowe's or Home Depot. I ask for things and thingies that make the round thing stay on the ceiling and stuff like that. I always ask for help finding things rather than just marching right in and pulling the item off the shelf. The men are always nice and helpful and to be honest, I rather enjoy them helping me and some of them are cute. :laugh:
There's nothing wrong with being a smart, savvy female, not at all. But in general the stereotype is that we are inept, helpless little creatures that need men to come to our rescue. Ok, so that's the way it is. I can deal with it and I go ahead and take advantage of it. Why not? :)
Yes, men do that, nod but no smile (unless they're a jerk). Women, however, if you make eye contact and your intent isn't "damnnn you're hot" or something, and you smile - they tend to smile back; especially you meekly greet them (of course, unless they have a stick up their backside as you've said). It's all about the eyes. People can read the eyes, it is subconscious I think.
As far as the trip to the hardware store, as a male I even tend to describe it like a female would, lol.. and I get helped. Actually, in your case I'd be like "Soo.. my lawnmower blade flew off, where are the parts for it" .. and they say the isle. However, I imagine as a woman, they'd probably walk you to the isle, point out the parts, and try to help you locate the specific part instead of saying "isle 6". Must be nice!
LOL... I just got back from the store where I asked the girl at the checkout if they sold individual postage stamps... She didn't know and asked the mgr. who came over and told my boobs that they only sell books of stamps
Quote from: Nero on August 07, 2010, 09:58:11 AM
People have less serious tones and faces around you. At least, that's what I notice in retrospect as male. But that also means people smile more at you. Of course, I'm just talking about everyday strangers here.
That! Also people might treat you a bit silly or clueless even when you totally know everything and they don't (university experience.. nothing masculine O_o) And then they might act stupid and always ask for you help... others won't, it's an example.
Umm.. let's see.. random people doing really stupid and silly things and actually think you'll like them and date with them. Non random people doing less silly (and less ugly things thankfully) in hope for more...
People being nicer, women definitely more open and helpful to women than men to each other in my university experience.
People in general being more helpful actually.
Here at work, female customers and workers like to greet and stay for a little talk even if they don't know me. Men might say Hi and move on :P
I dunno.. stuff.. it's different but not horribly different - I mean, you would just say "well they act usual.. like humans", I don't think any behaviour changes will be of any surprise to anyone, but might just be more appealing.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 07, 2010, 08:12:14 PM
LOL... I just got back from the store where I asked the girl at the checkout if they sold individual postage stamps... She didn't know and asked the mgr. who came over and told my boobs that they only sell books of stamps
No doubt he thought you were looking for pasties, not posties. >:-)
despite all the talk of he equality of sexes men still treat women as different so I enjoy getting the 'Thank you, love' from shop assistants and included in women chat at the office and having guys offer to lift and carry and stuff.
it's a bit annoying but funny how I'm no longer a far better mechanic/carpenter/painter than most men
a couple of weeks ago I asked to join the local crown green bowling but was told, Sorry Miss this is male-only.
one annoyance I do find is when shopping and having to juggle a shoulder bag that insists on slipping off my shoulder, with a bag of groceries, and trying to open my purse to get coins out.
..male life with money in my jacket pocket made shopping so much easier...now there are times when I need four hands...but no matter how long it takes to get the coins out no-one gets annoyed with me whereas when I was male and kept the assistants waiting they showed annoyance very quickly.
@lilacwoman
The shoulder bag thing is the most unexplainable female phenomenon for me. The most uncomfortable way of carrying your stuff but they still use it all the time. I rarely used these things and always put my stuff into my trouser pockets and/or into rucksacks. Got yelled at for this often by my mom as a kid, but she finally resigned.
Quote from: Fencesitter on August 08, 2010, 04:17:13 AM
@lilacwoman
The shoulder bag thing is the most unexplainable female phenomenon for me. The most uncomfortable way of carrying your stuff but they still use it all the time. I rarely used these things and always put my stuff into my trouser pockets and/or into rucksacks. Got yelled at for this often by my mom as a kid, but she finally resigned.
:D a shoulder bag is a thing of beauty while a rucksack is just a lump on your back...
Quote from: lilacwoman on August 08, 2010, 04:36:29 AM
:D a shoulder bag is a thing of beauty while a rucksack is just a lump on your back...
Function follows form? Ooookaaaayyy....
Well you can still buy these rubber thingies which you put on the handle so that the shoulder bag does not slip off from your shoulder so easily. It's the most important invention of the 20th century right after the nuclear bomb and the internet.
Life is what you make it... with actions and deeds...
If you give out good....you'll get it back in return for sure...
Perhaps the clue her is to focus on being an enlightened being...than getting too hung up on the sex and plumbing part?
Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 07, 2010, 08:12:14 PM
LOL... I just got back from the store where I asked the girl at the checkout if they sold individual postage stamps... She didn't know and asked the mgr. who came over and told my boobs that they only sell books of stamps
:D :D :D :D :D
I just want to point out that rape can happen to anyone regardless of sex or gender, and even women rape (sometimes, they even rape other women).
I personally do try not to frighten women when walking behind them or if it's night time. Women have to be extra careful and have to worry about things that men don't have to, so I don't want to add to that.
I guess I'll never transition as a woman, since today I saw this man on television and I thought to myself, "I want to look just like him, he acts a lot like me". Well then I thought of womanhood, it's not being a woman that I want, but being treated like one more so. In other words, since that made no sense, I just want to be treated special I guess. I think I can do that just as a guy, and I really like my body shape. I don't want breasts, or a vagina really. I don't even need a waist, or small hands or feet. I just want long hair and a very skinny body. Feminine qualities I guess.
It was a realization of realizations, and I am pretty sure it's what it is. I daydream being a woman because I want to use fantasies of a happier life as a woman, like I want to be pretty and cute. I want men to like my look, and be loved most of all. I think I just have to accept myself as a guy, and work with what I have rather than destroy what I do like about myself.
I don't think I am transsexual as much as I have a low self esteem, because I feel ugly about who I am. I don't need to be a woman, since if I do become a woman it wouldn't change a thing. It will just put me in debt and lose my family. Its not being a woman that I want, it's being me....
I guess that's it.
I won't stop spiro though because it does remove my acne.
Quote from: Megan on August 09, 2010, 02:06:53 AM
I guess I'll never transition as a woman, since today I saw this man on television and I thought to myself, "I want to look just like him, he acts a lot like me". Well then I thought of womanhood, it's not being a woman that I want, but being treated like one more so. In other words, since that made no sense, I just want to be treated special I guess. I think I can do that just as a guy, and I really like my body shape. I don't want breasts, or a vagina really. I don't even need a waist, or small hands or feet. I just want long hair and a very skinny body. Feminine qualities I guess.
It was a realization of realizations, and I am pretty sure it's what it is. I daydream being a woman because I want to use fantasies of a happier life as a woman, like I want to be pretty and cute. I want men to like my look, and be loved most of all. I think I just have to accept myself as a guy, and work with what I have rather than destroy what I do like about myself.
I don't think I am transsexual as much as I have a low self esteem, because I feel ugly about who I am. I don't need to be a woman, since if I do become a woman it wouldn't change a thing. It will just put me in debt and lose my family. Its not being a woman that I want, it's being me....
I guess that's it.
I won't stop spiro though because it does remove my acne.
Please excuse I momentary diversion...
Megan - Great to hear of your moment of truth! :) That's what this is supposed to be all about so good for you.
I can see how that line of thinking might develop in some people. I even wonder if some who feel isolated and have trouble forming friends might look around at the ease with which we women seem to form our relationships and think "hey if I were a woman perhaps I would find it easier to relate to others." Trouble is if your brain isn't female wired already it isn't really going to work for you.
The thing with spiro and acne is to EASE gently off it and with luck your skin will stabilise and settle down. For most people acne is a transient thing which eventually passes. Either way being on spiro for life is not really a viable idea because eventually it will cause osteroporosis which trust me is a HORRIBLE and debilitatingly painful disease. There are far better ways to cure the acne which don't have life threatening and incurable side effects.
Anyway good luck in applying your new self knowledge. I Reckon that counts as a result. :)
Sorry for the diversion - I now return the rest of you to your thread.... ;D
Eventually I'll stop the spiro lol.
Yeah, that's what it is, the grass is greener on the other side. I experience some things transsexuals feel, but then I don't feel the same the same that most do.
If I truly was transsexual I shouldn't be so unsure that I am, since most usually know. Then when I think I am, I don't after a while. So, the only symptom I see in common with me and transsexuals is the femininity, so I am probably just a feminine man. Like the butch lesbians, and the flamer homosexuals.
Even though I don't feel like a flamer, or act like one.
I just don't feel like I need to be a woman to be happy.
It's confusing but it makes sense right now, but I don't think I am a woman now. I like being a guy for the most part.....
Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 09, 2010, 02:50:28 AM
Hey friend, if you do or don't want to transition... That's up to you to decide... But using spiro as an acne treatment does not sound like a good idea... There are far better ways to deal with acne than chemically castrating yourself
Lower dosages of spiro are quite commonly used to control acne you don't have to completely wipe out your T production for reasonable control of your hormones.
Quote from: Cruelladeville on August 08, 2010, 06:49:04 AM
Life is what you make it... with actions and deeds...
If you give out good....you'll get it back in return for sure...
Perhaps the clue her is to focus on being an enlightened being...than getting too hung up on the sex and plumbing part?
Too true.
Funny thing, reading this thread and (cultural differences notwithstanding) I feel that I get treated in a way different from either of these - that I might get treated in an androgyne way. I'll start my own thread about being treated as an androgyne and all are invited as always.
Good day.
Post Merge: August 09, 2010, 05:54:49 AM
Here's my AG topic
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,81957.new.html#new (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,81957.new.html#new)
Oh - and Virginia Marie, it is not a case of "getting back to transgender topics such as being treated like a woman... " as Megan started this thread with the intention of working out whether they felt female or not. Surely this large realisation that they don't want to become female is a big realisation, important and should be recognised as such instead of being brushed off - just felt it was a little rude is all.
Oh - and Megan, you might want to check out the androgyne part of the forum, for those who feel neither male nor female, you might find something to recognise in there - or may not.
I have been ma'amed many times. I had men open doors for me. I've been hit on more times than I can count. Overall it's been a wonderful experience knowing how the other half lives and experiences.
Gennee
Quote from: childofwinter on August 08, 2010, 08:44:16 PM
I just want to point out that rape can happen to anyone regardless of sex or gender, and even women rape (sometimes, they even rape other women).
That is very true, but I certainly think about it more now that I'm post-op.
This from the UCSC website, Rape Prevention Education section (http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html (http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html))
QuoteAn estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999)
There is a lot of good info on this site. It also reports that:
QuoteAccording to the First National Survey of Transgender Violence, 13.7% of 402 transgender persons reported being a victim of rape or attempted rape. (Gender PAC 1997)
It's a good idea for anyone to be aware of their surroundings and situation at all times. It's just good common sense.
It feels all warm and fuzzy and comforting, since now I'm being much more passing and accepted. But most importantly it feels right for me, and that's the way I can tell if my life is heading where's it supposed to be.
FairyGirl, the idea of my chance of being a rape victim increasing 9-fold is really scary, especially when it's put like that in figures. :icon_blah:
Girls and guys smile at you more.
People want to comfort you when you cry instead of looking uncomfortable with it.
Men often open doors for you.
Baristas you see regularly might say random things to you like "how are you, gorgeous?"
People might honk their horns as they go by you walking on the sidewalk.
Auto Repair shop owners will treat you like you know nothing about cars.
Men look at your chest a lot more. =)
People call you 'hun' a lot.
You feel much more vulnerable in a dark alley.
And probably a lot more but that's a short list
Quote from: milktea on August 07, 2010, 01:01:42 PM
for me...often lining up for more than 15 minutes in a busy mall holding your bladder!
Thats so true, guys are just in and out never have to wait, Iv often stood lining up with other women & girls 20mins or more, but Iv got use to it.
A men's room is just that, they don't interact, do their business, don't speak and gone.
A ladies room is completely different, its our space, sometimes on a night out we sometimes all go to the ladies together just for a girl chat, its nice, it might be just small girly chat about fashion or hairstyles, its a nice interaction with other women, guys never do that in a mens room, only today I was in the ladies just touching up on my makeup when a complete stranger complemented me on my hair, I resently got ''tipped hightlights'' it was nice, I enjoy just be a woman everyday.
Don't get me going on the ''car thing'' yes Fiancé forbids me not to even think about it, car repairs tyres and wheel changing is forbidden territory for a woman, wells thats according to him, maybe it makes him feel less of a man, ''stand aside pauline dear, this is my job'' lol thats men, they just love to impress a lady.
p
What does being treated like a female feel like?
I would have to be the world's greatest poet to describe it, especially when the experience was new. Now, it just seems normal although, at times, like when I wake up with my girlfriend staring up from below my waist and saying, "How are you this morning, you gorgeous creature you?" I have to wonder, am I awake or dreaming?
Quote from: Jerica on August 09, 2010, 03:27:23 PMPeople call you 'hun' a lot.
hehe you get "hun"? I get "Dear" and "Sweetheart" :P
It's abit difficult for me to say much here because I only pass some of the time.
Guys don't let you in their online versus games saying guys only cause they are afraid to have their ass kicked by a girl ;)
Though this is polarised and very stereotype biased.... I think it quite amusing.!!
Men tend to think that relationships jeopardize their independence
Men feel that there is no need to talk about a relationship that is going well
Women feel that a relationship is only going well as long as they are talking about it...
Women find relationships a constant source of interest, attention and communication
Men don't view relationships as central...
Women talk as a primary way to become closer to another person
Men share goals and accomplish tasks together, that is there primary way to become close to another person...
Women are more emotionally responsive
Men are overwhelmed by women's expressions of emotion...
Women pay more attention to body language
Women express more love, fear and sadness
Women laugh, gaze and smile more
Men show emotion to communicate dominance...
My tip?
*s->-bleeped-<-s*
If you want a good male buddy (and want to keep him) keep doing something with him, preferably outdoorsie and adventurous... and don't keep talking about it....lol
People have said some really good stuff in this thread!
Here's my own personal experiences/observations in handy "Top 10" format!
1. Prejudice. That's definitely the number one. Some people really don't think that just about everyone now treats women with respect. Wrong. Chauvinism is alive and well and the first time you experience it will more than likely not be the last time. And this covers a lot of topics and territory from really awful things like inappropriate sexual advances to simply assuming you don't know anything about a certain topic simply because you're female.
2. To me, it always seemed like there was some secret club going on with females. Like even if they didn't really like another female, she was still in that club and would be pulled into the fold in certain situations where the scales needed to tip in a female direction. I've observed this first hand in work place scenarios where I was the outcast - unless of course the females were "teaming up" against a male manager or something, then all of a sudden I was given in the "secret handshake" and told of the "plan". I'm sure something like this exists with men (see #5), but what I've experienced with males more is simply just more of a, we want to get away from the females for a time and just go do "guy stuff". It didn't seem so, well, I don't want this to sound quite this bad but sneaky? lol
3. Help. Some men seem to think women need help with everything. This is especially the case if you are an attractive female. I never had to personally deal with a lot of that.
4. Being referred to as, sweetheart, babe, honey, hun, etc. etc. by men you don't know. Yes, this happens. It used to really get to me if it ever happened. People that won't use your name (but use some "pet" name like this) who you AREN'T sleeping with are most often times jerks. There are plenty of more appropriate ways to refer to a women if you don't know her name ... miss and ma'am are two of them ... how about asking for a name in a polite way? That too would work. Also the use of terms like that always made me feel "lesser" ... not sure how really to explain that but it was a just a feeling like, I'm sure that guy wouldn't have come up to another guy and said, "hey honey, do you have time?"
5. The "boys club". You're not in it anymore. If you're friends with a bunch of guys and they're all going out to the bar and they don't invite you, it's because they don't want you to come. Probably because they're going to get drunk and crack dirty jokes. Sometimes, you just have to leave the boys club do it's thing and not take the non-involvement personally. I've known a lot of women who have. Especially if they're in a new relationship with someone. If they're not invited to go somewhere they start to get all emotional and think up all these crazy scenarios about why they weren't invited. I've actually been with a group of girls before when someone's boyfriend doesn't invite them somewhere and seen it go from, "omg he didn't invite me!" to "omg he's having sex with 3 hookers right now!" Amazing.
6. These all have kind of a negative spin so far huh? lol Honestly, most of the time people will treat you nicely. So be prepared to have the occasional door held open for you and other stuff like that.
7. Someone else already mentioned the long wait at a public restroom, but also be prepared for women to potentially talk to you in there or to overhear other women talking. I always thought that was the weirdest thing. Like you're in a public toilet, in a line, ready to piss your pants, and some women says something to you. Or you'll hear two women carrying on a conversation while they're sitting in the stalls. When I need to use a public restroom I just want to get in and out of there not go to a social club. lol
8. This kind of goes along with #2, but be prepared once other women accept you into their fold to have to talk "girl talk". We're talking that sort of stuff like talking about periods and other general TMI topics. I liken this to "guy talk", which is usually just tall tales and bragging about sexual prowess but can sometimes get to places like, "Dude, you ever had hemorrhoids? Man I got this crazy one right now ...." lmao. Same kinda thing, only expect it to be about "female issues" a lot of the time!
9. Workplace bias. I could easily lump this into #1 but I thought it deserved to be it's own point because I know so many women that deal with this. There is still a lot of preferential treatment going on in the workplace. Many times a man will advance up the corporate ladder while I women remains an "admin" (a catch all secretary). I have two friends in this situation now and they're kind of stuck because the job market is so bad right now. And no matter what people say, men in some professions are still making more money than women in the same professions. I've also know women in corporate environments who were very talented with a lot of great ideas but were continually snubbed at meetings. It's also very easy for employers to skirt around issues of bias by claiming that someone was "more qualified", "more experienced", etc. etc. So be aware of situations like that in the workplace and be vocal about pointing them out and about your skills and qualifications.
10. Go to a day spa. Seriously. Total experience in and of itself. lol
Quote from: pebbles on August 10, 2010, 09:28:47 PM
hehe you get "hun"? I get "Dear" and "Sweetheart" :P
Those are always good too hehe. It's funny my aunt used to always always always call me DUDE. So I knew when she started calling me hun or sweety, that she was accepting =)
Quote from: Myself on August 11, 2010, 12:41:24 AM
Guys don't let you in their online versus games saying guys only cause they are afraid to have their ass kicked by a girl ;)
LOL!!!!
Quote from: Dee_pntx on August 11, 2010, 10:06:37 AM
Oh no no no no no no no....................
If that's what a man needs in a partner then he shouldn't be looking for women. And I'm not going to play surrogate male just to keep a man. No no no no..................
AGREE!
Quote from: Cruelladeville on August 11, 2010, 03:55:17 AM
If you want a good male buddy (and want to keep him) keep doing something with him, preferably outdoorsie and adventurous... and don't keep talking about it....lol
I'm going to have to agree with you. Some of the best relationships along with some of the best sex I had when living as male and dating women were those where the relationship was based on an equal partnership. Everything was out in the open and on the table. There were no secrets and no reason to sneak around. We lived, loved and laughed together and the trust factor was never an issue. As much as I love cooking and servicing a man, I'm not going to be there exclusively for those purposes.
I'm a very active person--hobbies, sports, etc. and I'm only going to become more active after my surgery. Volleyball, racquet sports, you name it and I expect the same from any man I may date in the future. There is no way I'm going to tolerate some fat, balding couch potato wearing a wife beater T with stains on it!
Today I was at the train station and some guy was stalking me and walking back and forth around where I went looking at me. If I went to another place, he went to walk in circles there instead!
Then I found a police officer and stood next to him, the guy disappeared.. until the officer went in a train :P
Also, unrelated.. know it when you have a guy friend and he wants more than just friendship and you aren't interested and he stops being a friend? :/
Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 11, 2010, 05:27:12 AM
7. Someone else already mentioned the long wait at a public restroom, but also be prepared for women to potentially talk to you in there or to overhear other women talking. I always thought that was the weirdest thing. Like you're in a public toilet, in a line, ready to piss your pants, and some women says something to you. Or you'll hear two women carrying on a conversation while they're sitting in the stalls. When I need to use a public restroom I just want to get in and out of there not go to a social club. lol
No I never found it weird striking up conversation with other women, specially when Im standing in the long wait bursting for a pee, I find it takes my mind off the wait as sometimes its agony holding on to it lol, guys never have that wait, but thats life, its very funny, a lady resently was telling me a very funny story about her husband, just laughing I actually wet my knickers, its not the first time Iv had a little accident in the line blush blush, when my turn came, I just took them off and folded them up inside paper tissue, sometimes carry a spare in my purse, now if a guy wets his pants, well a replacement is not always easy, so women do have an advantage sometimes.
p
Quote from: pretty pauline on August 11, 2010, 02:30:58 PM
No I never found it weird striking up conversation with other women, specially when Im standing in the long wait bursting for a pee, I find it takes my mind off the wait as sometimes its agony holding on to it lol, guys never have that wait, but thats life, its very funny, a lady resently was telling me a very funny story about her husband, just laughing I actually wet my knickers, its not the first time Iv had a little accident in the line blush blush, when my turn came, I just took them off and folded them up inside paper tissue, sometimes carry a spare in my purse, now if a guy wets his pants, well a replacement is not always easy, so women do have an advantage sometimes.
p
Well there you go, more proof of the difference between male and female brains (whether the body they were born into "matches" or not)! Cause yeah, I just find that really weird and uncomfortable talking to other people in the toilet lol ;)
Quote from: insideontheoutside
4. Being referred to as, sweetheart, babe, honey, hun, etc. etc. by men you don't know.
/quote]
In my area men add 'love' to remarks to women and I quite like it. Thanks. love,
Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 11, 2010, 03:50:16 PM
Well there you go, more proof of the difference between male and female brains (whether the body they were born into "matches" or not)! Cause yeah, I just find that really weird and uncomfortable talking to other people in the toilet lol ;)
I do agree with that quote, when it comes to toilets, men and women are different, insideontheoutside your beginning to sound like my Fiancé, he just asked me last night ''why do women go to the toilet in groups'' he just doesn't understand, we had been out with 4 other couples, friends of ours, when after the meal 2 of the women made a move for the ladies room, then looked in my direction and the other lady and asked us if we wanted to join them, so the 4 of us went to the toilet and left the guys to chat, well I wasn't missing out on the latest gossip, its part of the night out, even if your not having pee, touching up my makeup or fixing my hair, having a giggle or a girly chat about men or whatever, its nice, I enjoy it, just part of my feminine personality, its a girl thing, guys don't understand it because guys don't do it, must be very dull in a men's room, I hated it from what I can remember, I much prefer being a woman, its far nicer.
p
Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 11, 2010, 03:50:16 PM
Well there you go, more proof of the difference between male and female brains (whether the body they were born into "matches" or not)! Cause yeah, I just find that really weird and uncomfortable talking to other people in the toilet lol ;)
I've always liked to carry on a conversation in the men's room, and I occasionally go with my friends. It really weirds people out >:-), but It's a good place to talk, especially in a place that is noisy.
But anyways, It just seems to me that people in general are more considerate to me in girl mode, and I like it ;D.
In the current state of America at least, being treated like a woman is very little different from being treated like a man. If you are treated very different, you're not being treated like a woman, you're being treated like someone's bitch.