So I'm a little more than 5 months post-op and I've almost completely lost my width. I did my best with the dilation and kept a steady routine - even coming home from work during lunch break and ending up being consistently late getting back. I started to have difficulty so I emailed the clinic and they told me to step down to a smaller dilator. That's when things all started going downhill; it didn't get any easier and the day came about a month ago when I could no longer insert the smallest dilator.
At this point in time I can't put my finger in there. Somehow I am able to douche but it's not easy. I've been trying to force it wider but when I do that I'm in intense pain the rest of the day. This can't be right, to be hurting real bad after 5 months? I don't know what to do. They told me do it a little bit, often, but how can I do that I have to look for work on top of all of this. I've got to get back into dilation again somehow.
They said my surgeon can reopen the part that's all constricted but I don't know how long it'll be until I can afford another plane ticket to Thailand.
Anyone else had experience with losing width? Were you able to fix it by dilating, and how difficult was it?
Who was your surgeon, and what procedure did he use?
Steph
Suporn.
Have you thought of contacting a GRS surgeon in the US, I believe that is where you live, in Canada I know that Brassard does redo's. It may be cheaper than flying back to Thailand. Did Suporn offer any reason this happened.
Steph
Said I didn't put enough "quality" into my sessions.... whether that means I didn't apply enough pressure or what is beyond me.
I emailed Dr Meltzer's clinic & they said they'd have to do a consultation. When all's I wanted to do was find out which would cost less. It's $1100 for a flight & the fix-up is free I'm thinking that amount wouldn't go very far over here.
I checked out the Suporn web site and there is not much detail on his recommended dilation routine or the number of dilators that are used. I compared his routine with that of Brassard and there is quite a difference. you can see Brassards dilation routine here:
http://srsmontreal.com/ (http://srsmontreal.com/)
There seems to be a significant difference. You may want to try Brassards dilation routine and see if that helps.
Steph
Hi Dàwkbua
Sorry to hear that you seem to be having problems with your width. I would also suggest that you have a consultation with a local GRS specialist that is well known and who is also near you. Obviously to save yourself money in the first instance, so that you can ascertain what the problem is. Then and only then will you be able to decide what you need to do.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 14, 2010, 12:07:50 AM
Said I didn't put enough "quality" into my sessions.... whether that means I didn't apply enough pressure or what is beyond me.
To me this does not sound right, it sounds like a case of put the blame on the patient and not the doctor. Although this could be one of the reasons. However, one will not be able to find out until one consults a GRS specialist and you need to tell the surgeon about your dilation schedule and what Dr Suporn has said.
Take care, my thoughts are with you and let us know what happens in regards to to your problem.
Kind regards
Sarah B
Quote from: Steph on August 14, 2010, 12:22:53 AMThere seems to be a significant difference. You may want to try Brassards dilation routine and see if that helps.
Wow they certainly are different. Suporn instructs his patients to use a stirring motion in order to stretch out the vaginal opening. That's where the constriction has taken place; it's scar tissue. Brassard's instructions appear to only be for maintaining depth. I know that Suporn detaches some skin and sews it back on during the procedure so that would explain the scarring.
Quote from: Sarah B on August 14, 2010, 01:38:01 AMTo me this does not sound right, it sounds like a case of put the blame on the patient and not the doctor. Although this could be one of the reasons. However, one will not be able to find out until one consults a GRS specialist and you need to tell the surgeon about your dilation schedule and what Dr Suporn has said.
I think it's my body that's to blame. Maybe I just scar more easily than I should.
QuoteTake care, my thoughts are with you and let us know what happens in regards to to your problem.
Thank you. :)
In any case it's a real problem that I physically cannot get any of the dilators in (there are 3 sizes). I'm slowly losing depth as time goes on with this problem unresolved.
I'm really sorry to hear about this hon. If you can't get your finger in, there's definitely a problem. If you've been dilating, I can't see how it's your fault. This really sucks. :( I hope you can get help.
are you sure you don't have infections inside? to have such pain and swelling aftre surgery suggests infection.
In last two and half years I've had 7 deep incisions and all healed clean and quick with no pain apart from one that despite carefull pre-op cleaning got infceted with MRSA. It was red and swollen for two weeks before that antibiotics took care of it.
Maybe a simple trip to a doctor or women's health clinic might be in order?
Brassard told me directly and I've heard this elsewhere that lost depth can only be fixed surgically but lost diameter can be remedied with regular dilation. But your situation seems the latter may not be true.
Right after surgery, Brassard recommends four dilations a day. A friend told me McGinn is now recommending six times a day. Both are tough to do if you're working. How long after surgery did you return to work? How many dialtions per day were you doing then? How long was it between dilations once you returned back to work? Those answers could help understand if it was dilation problems or something else.
Quote from: Nero on August 14, 2010, 02:01:52 AMI'm really sorry to hear about this hon. If you can't get your finger in, there's definitely a problem. If you've been dilating, I can't see how it's your fault. This really sucks. :( I hope you can get help.
Thank you. :)
Quote from: lilacwoman on August 14, 2010, 05:08:11 AMare you sure you don't have infections inside? to have such pain and swelling aftre surgery suggests infection.
I do, actually, and I went to the emergency clinic. And oh do I ever have a story about that - incompetent doc misdiagnosed it then when the test results came back & showed I need an antibiotic he fails to forward my prescription that I don't know if I can afford to get filled anyway, so now 2 weeks out I am still untreated.... but that's only been going on since I closed up.
I still remember Dr Suporn telling me even if I have an infection to keep dilating anyway.
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 14, 2010, 05:28:30 AM
How long after surgery did you return to work? How many dialtions per day were you doing then? How long was it between dilations once you returned back to work? Those answers could help understand if it was dilation problems or something else.
I returned the day before the earliest that I was supposed to, which is 6 weeks post-op. I did 3 sessions per day, anywheres from 6-12 hours apart.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 14, 2010, 09:40:22 AM
I returned the day before the earliest that I was supposed to, which is 6 weeks post-op. I did 3 sessions per day, anywheres from 6-12 hours apart.
Firstly, let me say that I'm deeply sympathetic to your situation and I hope that you can rectify this situation soon. Secondly, this topic is extremely interesting as I've never heard of this happening before. How far post op were you when you noticed this change occurring?
I had my surgery just 2 months ago with Dr. McGinn; her dilation schedule calls for 5 times per day for the first 8 weeks, dropping to 3 times per day until 6 months, then one time per day from 6 months to a year. After that it's once a week. Five times a day is rough! Spread out over 12 1/2 hours with 30 minutes per session that's only 2 1/2 hours between sessions, not counting prep and cleanup time.
I'm sorry you're having such a time with it dear. It's my understanding that the depth and width sort of happen together with the different sized dilators- the largest is 1.5" in diameter and at 8 weeks I'm barely able to squeeze it in there. I also have a skin graft where scrotal skin is attached to the inverted penile skin inside my vagina. That part where the graft attaches is like a ring and is very tight, and usually takes me 6-8 minutes to work the dilator all the way through.
Dr. McGinn showed me what it looks like inside using a speculum. To someone untrained at dealing with post-op women she said it might appear as though there is an infection in there, but it isn't. She said there is going to be white stuff that might look like infection to someone who didn't know what it was, but what it is actually is the skin on the graft sloughing off and becoming inside skin. This will also come out and might look like an infection. Did they do a culture test to see if it was actually an infection or just a visual inspection?
I hope you can get this fixed soon. I'd be trying everything I could to get something clean and sterile to go in there and keep it open in the meantime. Maybe just sit and try using you finger and push as hard as you can stand it with lots of lube until you can at least get it open again. If not, it sounds like $1100 for a plane ticket is going to be your best option. Best of luck sweetie, my thoughts are with you.
I'm sorry. Wish I could give you mine...
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 14, 2010, 09:38:07 AM
I do, actually, and I went to the emergency clinic. And oh do I ever have a story about that - incompetent doc misdiagnosed it then when the test results came back & showed I need an antibiotic he fails to forward my prescription that I don't know if I can afford to get filled anyway, so now 2 weeks out I am still untreated.... but that's only been going on since I closed up.
I still remember Dr Suporn telling me even if I have an infection to keep dilating anyway.
that infection needs killing before it kills you. I'm not joking. If you are now so tight that you can't get anything inside then there are real possibilities of very nasty things going to happen. If it's been festering merrily for a few weeks you qualify for A&E care.
whe I ha dmy ankle op with 3 incisions I had to bathe my foot in hot disinfected water and then wrap it sterile and even then I got MRSA in two cuts. SRS must be more liable to infections just by the amount of cutting that is needed and the depth giving plenty of places for bugs to breed.
So beg borrow or steal the money to ge the antibiotics...or go to A&E if that is possible (sorry but I live in UK and we have totally free NHS - funded with $7.50 gas and diesel and $200 television licences).
what about squirting some Dettol or other wound cleaner in with a thin tube and squeezy bottle? Turkey basters come to mind.
Quote from: lilacwoman on August 14, 2010, 04:07:05 PM
that infection needs killing before it kills you. I'm not joking. If you are now so tight that you can't get anything inside then there are real possibilities of very nasty things going to happen. If it's been festering merrily for a few weeks you qualify for A&E care.
whe I ha dmy ankle op with 3 incisions I had to bathe my foot in hot disinfected water and then wrap it sterile and even then I got MRSA in two cuts. SRS must be more liable to infections just by the amount of cutting that is needed and the depth giving plenty of places for bugs to breed.
So beg borrow or steal the money to ge the antibiotics...or go to A&E if that is possible (sorry but I live in UK and we have totally free NHS - funded with $7.50 gas and diesel and $200 television licences).
what about squirting some Dettol or other wound cleaner in with a thin tube and squeezy bottle? Turkey basters come to mind.
I remember having dental surgery--twice. They did sections individually. On my second go, my periodontist did not give me an anti bacterial oral rinse. Needless to say I developed an infection. I never knew it was infected as I thought that the swelling this time around was just particularly bad. Over a period of time it was becoming increasingly difficult to open my jaw. I woke up on a Saturday morning and I couldn't even yawn the swelling was so bad. I immediately called my perio, who was unfortunately away, but his wife quickly contacted another periodontist who looked after me. I booked a follow-up with my periodontist a while later and he explained to me how lucky I was to have had it taken care when I did. The thing is I didn't feel ill or in pain. Perhaps this is what may be causing your swelling.
Hiya, Sorry to hear about your problem, I had problems the first week and eventually It was painful to dilate and get the things in. My specialist nurse suggested a ortho vaginal applicator. It is like a syringe and at first it is filled with lube and then placed in the vagina then you press the lube inside the vagina. This lubricates the inside much further in. I had begun to get a little tight on the outside which was rubbing the lube off while trying to insert. The applicators are only plastic and cost a few dollars/pounds from a pharmacy. I have had no problems since dilating that way. I was so thankful to the hospital when I phones panicking and fretting all at the same time. It may work for you.
Also as I believe you still need to get rid of the infection but continue to dilate.
Stardust
Dàwkbua your having the same problem I did. The Dilator set that I got the first time would not go inside my vagina. I had to call the office many times complaining that I couldn't get the stents inside. They had to send me a special set their white and smaller and I been using that which really opened me up more to get the regular stents inside. I think your best bet is the same white stents that I recieved. their much smaller and go in easier then the regular stents. I could send you a picture of them and try and help you get a set if that'll help.
I think tinkerbell offers good advice.
As an ftm I don't have experience to draw on, but from what I've heard if you're having issues with width you should try using smaller dilators and work your way back up to the bigger ones.
I hope that can take care of what's going on before you need to resort to more surgery.
Dear Dàwkbua,
I am really sorry to hear you are having issues with ur srs, I think the best option is for you to buy a ticket to Thailand and get a revision with Dr. Suporn since your srs is covered under his life time warranty. I would say your problem is to do with scarring.
Please don't leave it for too long. And let us know how you go. I wish you all the best with your recovery.
Quote from: Tinkerbell on August 15, 2010, 05:34:38 PMDàwkbua your having the same problem I did. The Dilator set that I got the first time would not go inside my vagina. I had to call the office many times complaining that I couldn't get the stents inside. They had to send me a special set their white and smaller and I been using that which really opened me up more to get the regular stents inside. I think your best bet is the same white stents that I recieved. their much smaller and go in easier then the regular stents. I could send you a picture of them and try and help you get a set if that'll help.
I would appreciate that immensely! How big around are they? What do they cost? I've been trying to stretch out with whatever I have on hand but I don't really have anything that works well. Can't get enough leverage to apply as much pressure as need be. I found out the reason why I failed to maintain width was I hadn't been pushing hard enough.
This morning I managed to check my depth. In a bit more than a month I've lost 2". If I kept what I have now it would be enough but how likely is that. Just a little longer and there won't be anything left to salvage.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 18, 2010, 12:56:16 PM
Just a little longer and there won't be anything left to salvage.
I hope you're able to reverse the damage before it gets to this point.
Hi Dàwkbua
Back in the 1990's I knew of three other gals that went through with SRS back in Brighton about the same time as me....
One of them, had many complications....and had to have multiple revisions at least 4 in all....I seem to remember....?
We all had the same surgeon.... (but your physicality is unique to you.).... so results for that reason 'always' vary.... there is never a uniform standard result....
But revisional work is something many just simply have to undertake...
People are made of flesh and blood and a miracle fibre called courage...
[Mignon McLaughlin]
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 18, 2010, 12:56:16 PM
I found out the reason why I failed to maintain width was I hadn't been pushing hard enough.
Yes that's true, I'm only five weeks post op and I do have to apply some pressure to get full wide and depth.
Stardust
Quote from: stardust on August 19, 2010, 07:18:02 AM
Yes that's true, I'm only five weeks post op and I do have to apply some pressure to get full wide and depth.
Stardust
So how does one know if they are pushing hard enough? Obviously, Dawkbua did not know. So how will I and others know?
Quote from: Valeriedances on August 19, 2010, 09:26:47 AM
An important marker to learn is the dilator mark immediately after surgery when you first begin dilating. After that keep working to maintain that. I have been, even when it was uncomfortable to the point of hurting. I cried more than a few times, especially when moving up in size. When it is at it's fullest point, the end of the dilator hits what feels to me like the pelvic bone, or at least some harder than normal area.
It no longer hurts to dilate and fortunately my depth has not reduced.
I took Kate's advice and used quarter turns, twisting back and forth, periodically even after reaching full depth to make sure I was where I thought it should be. In time I gave up on trying to make it deeper. It never went deeper than my initial mark.
I did notice a few times while reading that I would forget to keep pressure on the dilator and it wouldnt be at the mark it should. I'm trying to be more careful after realizing that.
Best of luck to you Dàwkbua. The white dilator's sound promising.
...and hi everyone :)
Hi Valerie, nice to hear from you! Thanks for the great advice I will definitely be using it. Sorry to get off-topic for a moment, but are you back to running yet?
Quote from: Kristyn on August 19, 2010, 07:55:46 AM
So how does one know if they are pushing hard enough? Obviously, Dawkbua did not know. So how will I and others know?
Yes what Valerie said about the depth. I usually reach a natural stopping place, but continued pressure for a few minutes gets me another complete inch or more of depth. Dr. McGinn told me this is normal, and that sometimes girls just stop there which causes that little extra depth to go away. When it bottoms out I can definitely tell, it feels like it's up against the back of my pelvic bone or something.
I also have to use tons of lube with the bigger dilators because they are so tight it tends to completely wipe it off the sides as it pushes in. Pushing while twisting helps (like trying a locked doorknob according to Dr. McGinn), and I put some mineral oil in a little applicator bottle which I can dribble on the sides while dilating and that helps a lot too. She also recommended massaging in some lanolin cream (like the stuff that women use for breastfeeding, and not while dilating) around the vaginal opening, which she said will help soften up scar tissue, keep it from toughening up, and make it easier to dilate.
Quote from: FairyGirl on August 19, 2010, 10:03:50 AM
Yes what Valerie said about the depth. I usually reach a natural stopping place, but continued pressure for a few minutes gets me another complete inch or more of depth. Dr. McGinn told me this is normal, and that sometimes girls just stop there which causes that little extra depth to go away. When it bottoms out I can definitely tell, it feels like it's up against the back of my pelvic bone or something.
I also have to use tons of lube with the bigger dilators because they are so tight it tends to completely wipe it off the sides as it pushes in. Pushing while twisting helps (like trying a locked doorknob according to Dr. McGinn), and I put some mineral oil in a little applicator bottle which I can dribble on the sides while dilating and that helps a lot too. She also recommended massaging in some lanolin cream (like the stuff that women use for breastfeeding, and not while dilating) around the vaginal opening, which she said will help soften up scar tissue, keep it from toughening up, and make it easier to dilate.
Great advice, thanks Cloe!
If the clinic does not or can not provide a smaller set, I would just go for the Soul GRS dilator set.
I have gone through a few different sets of dilators, in my experience, they are the best ones so far.
They are easy for insertions, they don't have the big bullet shape at the tip.
http://www.soulsourceenterprises.com/html/products_grs.html (http://www.soulsourceenterprises.com/html/products_grs.html)
I hope you gain your depth and width back.
Keep us posted.
All the best
:-*
Quote from: jade on August 20, 2010, 10:46:28 PM
If the clinic does not or can not provide a smaller set, I would just go for the Soul GRS dilator set.
I have gone through a few different sets of dilators, in my experience, they are the best ones so far.
They are easy for insertions, they don't have the big bullet shape at the tip.
Those are way way way too large but thank you. I need something around half an inch diameter or a little smaller. I've started using my fingers to stretch. Can't reach depth that way to maintain it but at least I can try to gain width this way. I didn't know how hard to push sideways; it sounds like the inversion technique requires the patient to only maintain depth which Valerie's advice is great for. Suporn's skin graft technique just comes with more upkeep I guess; the instruction book says to "make it hurt" but how descriptive is that? My tolerance for pain is apparently quite low so just making it hurt isn't enough.
I struggled a lot with Dr Suporn's dilation regime in the beginning too. I don't know what to recommend at this stage if the dilators wont go in, but from what I understand, that width can be returned with more dilations. That's they key. If things are getting difficult you need to dilate more often and for longer, even if you can only use fingers right now.
Try going to a sex shop and finding a thin dildo if you can. It's not the best option but it's something to start with. Make sure it isn't rubbery, you don't want any friction.
Use a LOT of lube! (I used heaps in the first six months).
Do NOT give up!
Double the amount of time spent dilating (I did this when I was having troubles).
Push hard! Especially when doing the stirring motion! Dynamic dilation has different goals to static dilation. Suporn patients can develop scar tissue that can tighten and restrict dilation. The aim of dynamic dilation is to stretch that tissue.
Oh, and always listen to the advice of Sophie and the Clinic, and always stay in touch with them. They have dealt with every possible scenario before and know the best ways to move forward. Do NOT rely on the dilation techniques or post-op care instructions of ANY OTHER SURGEON. They are tailored to meet the needs of those ppatients only. This is a different surgery with different requirements to heal well.
*hugs*
You can do it!
Maybe this explains why Dr. Kunaporn told me he finds Dr. Suporn's technique too aggressive to use it himself on his patients.
It sounds like a lot of hard work after SRS when the patient goes back to her country and is on her own to deal with this dilation schedule and issues that may arise.
I genuinely hope you gain your health and function back, I really feel for you.
Please update us on your progress
Love
:-*
You mentioned in an earlier post that you had an infection. This is what you mentioned:
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 14, 2010, 09:38:07 AM
I do, actually, and I went to the emergency clinic. And oh do I ever have a story about that - incompetent doc misdiagnosed it then when the test results came back & showed I need an antibiotic he fails to forward my prescription that I don't know if I can afford to get filled anyway, so now 2 weeks out I am still untreated.... but that's only been going on since I closed up.
I still remember Dr Suporn telling me even if I have an infection to keep dilating anyway.
Can you clarify if the infection has been cleared up and was it from your operation. The infection would need to be cleared up, else the infection will spread. As has been mentioned before.
Take care, my thoughts are with you and I hope you get better soon.
Kind regards
Sarah B
Quote from: Birdie on August 21, 2010, 08:51:10 PMIf things are getting difficult you need to dilate more often and for longer, even if you can only use fingers right now.
Sophie did tell me to do it often.
QuoteTry going to a sex shop and finding a thin dildo if you can.
I did, and used it for a while. It won't fit inside me anymore. I might take an evening and force it in by whatever means necessary, though it's sure to leave me in tons of pain the next day.
QuoteDouble the amount of time spent dilating (I did this when I was having troubles).
The clinic said not to do that. 15 minutes is apparently the maximum. Did they tell you different? I know the recommended session length is not the same between their guide books and what they told me to do, so it wouldn't surprise me if they've changed their recommendations.
QuoteOh, and always listen to the advice of Sophie and the Clinic, and always stay in touch with them. They have dealt with every possible scenario before and know the best ways to move forward. Do NOT rely on the dilation techniques or post-op care instructions of ANY OTHER SURGEON. They are tailored to meet the needs of those ppatients only. This is a different surgery with different requirements to heal well.
She actually told me at one point that she didn't know what to say. That once I can't use the dilators I'm sure to lose depth & width, and to just get hold of whatever is small enough and stretch stretch stretch. Seems that although it's common to underestimate how much force to use, it sounds as if few of us manage to let it deteriorate this much. But yeah with surgeons having differing techniques there's bound to be differences in aftercare.
Quote*hugs*
You can do it!
Thank you! :)
Quote from: jade on August 21, 2010, 09:49:11 PMI genuinely hope you gain your health and function back, I really feel for you.
Thank you. :)
Quote from: Sarah B on August 21, 2010, 11:05:11 PMCan you clarify if the infection has been cleared up and was it from your operation. The infection would need to be cleared up, else the infection will spread. As has been mentioned before.
Take care, my thoughts are with you and I hope you get better soon.
It appears to have cleared up. I am almost finished with my antibiotics so will have to see if it returns. It came on when I was not quite 4 months post-op.
Thank you. :) With luck I will!
Quote from: jade on August 20, 2010, 10:46:28 PM
If the clinic does not or can not provide a smaller set, I would just go for the Soul GRS dilator set.
These look to have a turn up at the end. Which guy did they model them on?
Interesting that they say chilling them might help with some soreness.
I've no idea what my surgeon will recommend when I eventually get srs.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 13, 2010, 11:14:07 PM
So I'm a little more than 5 months post-op and I've almost completely lost my width. I did my best with the dilation and kept a steady routine - even coming home from work during lunch break and ending up being consistently late getting back. I started to have difficulty so I emailed the clinic and they told me to step down to a smaller dilator. That's when things all started going downhill; it didn't get any easier and the day came about a month ago when I could no longer insert the smallest dilator.
Hi Dàwkbua,
Can I ask, what prevented you from dilating? Was it pain? Discomfort?
I just ask because I went through a really bad time at about 2.5 - 4.5 months in, but managed to fight through it. It was painful, discomforting, and even bloody. I managed to get my (sympathetic) local doc to give me pain pills for dilations through month 4, and it was needed. But the key was to fight through it, at least in my case.
I have no idea what you are experiencing, I can only relate my experience. I sent Sophie a few desperate emails, and her responses got me through it. I think the best was the picture of the scar ring, and I just knew that I had to focus on that when it was to hard to 'chew' through it, even with the smallest dilator. Like Birdy related, I can remember spending 6-10 minutes just to break through that scar ring.. it was tight, and I really thought I was messed up, that it was so hard to get through, sometimes thinking I never would. I had a few dilations where I would give up, but I would get right back to it ... because I knew it HAD to be done.
I wish you the best of luck, and all of my best wishes are with you. I am not telling you to push yourself on your dilations, because I'm no doctor and I don't want you to hurt yourself, but I know that I pushed to a point at times, both in the stirring lateral motions, as well as depth-wise, that I wondered if I weren't doing something wrong, because it HURT so much. The depth dilation was at times, like pushing right into my bowel, and it felt, so horrid. I would bleed when I stirred hard for the width exercises, but holding the dilator in, and still for a bit of time (the manual tells you to do this), the bleeding would stop quickly. This whole regimen is extremely hard, and no manual, or clinic girls can prepare you (or well, me) for what happens when you get home and are faced with this thing on your own. Not truly.
Ultimately you HAVE to listen to Sophie. She has the experience. She's been through this with hundreds of women. She is your link. Trust her, and follow her guidance. I doubted her at times, but I read her emails over and over, and just followed them, she really does know what she is talking about. She did spend the time to answer my questions and issues.
One thing I noted from something you said in a previous post in this thread, ask Sophie directly about the 15 minute limit you cited earlier. I've never dilated for only 15 minutes. My dilations last from 35-60 minutes, even now, at 7 months post op. I only do one every day or two now, but I always make it a long one, just out of practice. Even when I was dilating 2-3 times a day, I was doing at least 45 minutes each.
My thoughts are with you, and I hope you can persevere and get through this without additional surgery.
*huggs*,
Melan
Quote from: Melan on August 23, 2010, 07:17:38 PMCan I ask, what prevented you from dilating? Was it pain? Discomfort?
The dilator physically will not go in. I'm already too small to accommodate any of the dilators; the day I became unable to do so I wrote to Sophie and she said there isn't much she can tell me other than to relax.
The pain level is such that right now, when I attempt to stretch to about half an inch diameter, in addition to the stretching sensation I get a sharp stabbing pain on one side. For about 3-4 hours after that, I'm literally laying down on the couch screaming into a pillow. My post-dilation pain gets up to about an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most intense pain I can imagine. I've been prescribed tramadol and vicodin and even when taken together at maximum allowed dosage they're still not easing it enough to go about day to day life.
This is why I'm unsure what to do. I was going to increase frequency today from 2x/day to 3 or 4 times, but the pain lasted so long that I'm reluctant to do another stretching session right now.
I've wondered if I should try to force a dilator in and do my best to ignore the pain no matter how intense. I've never bled from dilation so maybe that is a sign that I didn't do it forcefully enough. How bad was the discomfort when you forced the dilator in? I noticed you said you had to "break through" the ring; is it that you had to push until it tore or otherwise gave way?
Though it was a long time ago.... in my case....
I remember it being uncomfortable.... as opposed to so painful one would stop doing it?
And after 6 months or so I got off the rigid glass bullets and moved onto a funky dildo.... which I found an all together better curved shape and experience...
Along the lines of ones made by Lelo Ella... so it wouldn't frighten off the cleaner if she found it in my bedside draw...lol
It really would seem to me to be an issue where you need to get back to the surgeon.... which I know if he's in another country to the one you currently reside in..... is not particularly helpful right now...
Alternatively seek another Dr or specialist that could do a consult for you? As a professional consult with this maybe the best way to regain confidence with what it is you need to do?
as I'm possibly getting surgery in September and need to know about dilating and don't want Dawkbua's trauma can I ask about the physical aspects of actually cutting the inside flesh tyo make the new vagina canal?
Sitting here and feeling myself I'm thinking there is just a thinnish flesh over the hole in the pelvis where the vagina canal will be and then there is the muscle that has to have a hole made through it.
I remeber seeing the programme with Miss Evans and she just used her finger to sort of push a way through or under the flesh/muscle and then she inverted and inserted the penis skin.
So if Dawkbua's problems isn't a bad infection what else can be giving such pain?
I've been in road crash and had other operations and my boob job was as painful as I've ever felt but I don't want a pain like dawkbua is having.
this youtube shows where the new vagina will be so is there anything in there that could be harmed during surgery or has nerves that could be causing the pain?
Anatomy of the Male pelvis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5mPoc0RQeA#)
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 24, 2010, 06:38:25 PM
The pain level is such that right now, when I attempt to stretch to about half an inch diameter, in addition to the stretching sensation I get a sharp stabbing pain on one side. For about 3-4 hours after that, I'm literally laying down on the couch screaming into a pillow.
I've wondered if I should try to force a dilator in and do my best to ignore the pain no matter how intense. I've never bled from dilation so maybe that is a sign that I didn't do it forcefully enough. How bad was the discomfort when you forced the dilator in? I noticed you said you had to "break through" the ring; is it that you had to push until it tore or otherwise gave way?
This is way out of the realm of my experience. It never felt like tearing for me, when trying to get through the ring. That would be bad. And the pain you are describing is *well* beyond what I felt. I have no suggestions at this point, I'm so sorry you are going through this, and hope you receive a solution.
Please take care,
Melan
Well it sounds like my experience is quite atypical. :-\ At least I can report that is showing signs of getting easier....
I'm going to have my gynecologist do an internal exam when I see her. I'm hoping maybe there's something she can recommend. I don't understand why the surgeon doesn't just leave a stent in there for a while like they do any other opening that one doesn't want to have close up.
Quote from: lilacwoman on August 25, 2010, 03:21:48 PM
as I'm possibly getting surgery in September and need to know about dilating and don't want Dawkbua's trauma can I ask about the physical aspects of actually cutting the inside flesh tyo make the new vagina canal?
Sitting here and feeling myself I'm thinking there is just a thinnish flesh over the hole in the pelvis where the vagina canal will be and then there is the muscle that has to have a hole made through it.
No one can guarantee that your experience will be anything like mine or unlike mine. But it seems like my difficulty level is atypical. As far as grafting the skin onto the internal tissue, I was surprised to find out that my surgeon actually does this but the result is very good in that respect. It's only the scar tissue that's a disadvantage. Who is your surgeon going to be? I believe Suporn is the only one who does it that way.
At about 3 months or so I had problems getting my number 3 dilator in, it was painful, took forever, and bled every time. I nearly gave up on it, but realized that if I did, number 2 could eventually get that difficult, and if I gave that up, number 1 as well. I persevered through almost a month of fighting with getting number three in and being in pain throughout the dilation session. Now it slips in almost as easy as number one and number 2. Generally, I start with number one, which has resistance at first, especially in the evening when I get home from work. I work through the resistance, and then all is fine. This is just my experience, I almost gave up at the height of the pain and bleeding trying to keep using number 3, eventually I won!
hey Katgirl so have you been able to get to #4 yet or are you still on 3 , and buy the way ;) congrats on winnning the battle lol
Quote from: katgirl74 on August 25, 2010, 09:31:59 PM
At about 3 months or so I had problems getting my number 3 dilator in, it was painful, took forever, and bled every time. I nearly gave up on it, but realized that if I did, number 2 could eventually get that difficult, and if I gave that up, number 1 as well. I persevered through almost a month of fighting with getting number three in and being in pain throughout the dilation session. Now it slips in almost as easy as number one and number 2. Generally, I start with number one, which has resistance at first, especially in the evening when I get home from work. I work through the resistance, and then all is fine. This is just my experience, I almost gave up at the height of the pain and bleeding trying to keep using number 3, eventually I won!
I'm having that same issue, but with the #4. It was much easier a couple weeks ago and I was even starting with the #3, but as time has gone by and with more healing it has gotten more difficult. I now have to start with the #2, then #3, and the #4 is so tight I'm usually crying by the time I work it in. Dr. McGinn did say it would get more difficult before it got better as the inside heals and tightens up, but you are absolutely right about not giving up on the larger size because that would only make it worse.
I've been massaging in pure lanolin cream (the kind that's made for breastfeeding mothers) about 10 minutes before a session and that is helping to soften the skin and make it more pliable but it still bleeds sometimes. At least it's good to know it gets better eventually!
Quote from: katgirl74 on August 25, 2010, 09:31:59 PM
At about 3 months or so I had problems getting my number 3 dilator in, it was painful, took forever, and bled every time. I nearly gave up on it, but realized that if I did, number 2 could eventually get that difficult, and if I gave that up, number 1 as well. I persevered through almost a month of fighting with getting number three in and being in pain throughout the dilation session. Now it slips in almost as easy as number one and number 2. Generally, I start with number one, which has resistance at first, especially in the evening when I get home from work. I work through the resistance, and then all is fine. This is just my experience, I almost gave up at the height of the pain and bleeding trying to keep using number 3, eventually I won!
Really good stuff to know before hand. Thanks Kat and Chloe for the heads up and the advice to NOT GIVE UP.
I remember a friend of mine also had issues with #3, so she just shoved it in one day and caused some tearing to the sides of the entry, but hey, since then she can slide it right in, no issues ;D
An interesting thread and Dawkbua, my heart goes out to you but don't give up, if you need to do more dilations per day, do it, it may be cumbersome but the end result is what matters.
I also found the scar tissue got very tight as it healed but found by starting with the smallest dilator and gradually working up to the largest it didn't take to long to stretch it out. My doctor told me to start with No1 and hold in at full depth for 1 minute, then No2 for 2 minutes and so on up to the largest you can take which you leave in for 15 minutes, so I have always spent 35 to 45 minutes dilating at each session, sometimes longer if there is something good on TV.
This thread is a good indicator to those contemplating surgery on how important dilation is. Yes it's time consuming, yes it's uncomfortable sometimes painful, yes it's a damn pain in the butt having to do it all the time and yes sometimes some people have problems, but it is so extremely important to keep up particularly in the first 12 months of so.
Dawbua, I hope everything sorts itself out soon, my thoughts are with you.
Quote from: Dàwkbua It's only the scar tissue that's a disadvantage. Who is your surgeon going to be? I believe Suporn is the only one who does it that way.
/quote]
I'll be having Inglefield in London. I need a colon-vaginoplasty and shoudl have no problems with tightness of the actual lining and I did notice that when he was examining me he did press quite hard on the place behind my scrotum where the hole in our pelvises is as if to check that there was a big enough gap in the bones.
Have you tried dilating in the shower, immediately after douching?
Quote from: glendagladwitch on August 26, 2010, 08:39:13 AM
Have you tried dilating in the shower, immediately after douching?
I haven't. I should.
Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.
I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.
My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 PM
I haven't. I should.
Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.
I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.
My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.
Dawkbua I'm so very sorry to hear about your situation. It's also very sad that the clinic was unsuccessful in helping you. Why are you reluctant to say publicly what made you lose confidence in their staff. Treatment like that should not be tolerated and should be made public for the sake of others considering surgery.
For a long time there was bad things being said about the office staff in Montreal. I guess word got around and things have greatly improved.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 PM
I haven't. I should.
Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.
I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.
My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.
My Heart pours out to you. I will keep you in my prayers!!!!
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 27, 2010, 08:37:19 PM
I haven't. I should.
Well I heard back from Sophie and she said at the point where I'm at it will be extremely difficult to get any width back. The pain is literally unbearable so it is very tempting to give up. My situation is very dire. She also said Dr Suporn does not attempt to restore depth in any follow up surgery.
I won't publicly say what else was said to me but it made me lose a lot of confidence in the clinic staff.
My thought is by the time I'm able to stretch out enough to insert a dilator, I'll have lost almost all depth. So I think my best bet might be to save up and have a consultation with one of the U.S. surgeons.
So sorry to hear this and my heart goes out to you and also my prayers. Have you tried using an Ortho Vaginal Applicator to get some lube in and around there first?
Stardust
Well I guess I want to not be that person who makes waves and talks smack about the clinic. But that's a good point about improving things. Well suffice it to say I followed the advice that the clinic gave me before, and now they're telling me to never do the very thing they said to do because the result would be dire. So I replied that it's too late and I've already gotten to that dire place.
As I was typing this she responded and it seems she still doesn't realize that I am unable to use the dilators. I just let her have it.
Quote from: meSophie,
You continue to not understand what I am saying. I already told you six times in my last email alone that it is impossible to insert any of the dilators, or any object larger than about half the diameter of the smallest one. My ring has been this way for more than a month. I have already tried stretching as much as I could, pressing hard against the ring to try to push it outwards, and there is a limit to how much the tissue will stretch.
I agree that the only solution I can see right now involves cutting the scar tissue open to widen the vaginal opening. I am going to ask my gynecologist if this can be done and some sort of stent can be inserted that will prevent further contraction and allow me to slide the small dilator in for purposes of maintaining depth.
I don't have enough to pay my bills to prevent my belongings from being auctioned off so there is absolutely no way in the world short of winning the damn lottery that I can fly to Thailand any time soon. And why would I spend that kind of money just to go there and have Dr Suporn tell me there's nothing he can do? "Well you're screwed and you're out the price of an expensive plane ticket, have a nice life" isn't the kind of medical care I paid 495,000 Baht for.
Following your advice was what got me into this predicament so I am not going to follow it anymore. I will be seeking medical assistance here in the USA where it may not be free but at least it's usually competent. I will continue to send updates.
Thanks for nothing.
Julie
I've just burned a bridge. :(
Laura is right, there is no reason to kiss butt as they weren't doing much to help you anyway. It sounds like they indeed screwed up and now they are back peddling to save face. This is the type of info that has to be made public, not just of your surgeon, but of all surgeons and their staff who fail to be accountable for their actions. If people fail to speak up, then incidences such as these will continue to escalate. Perhaps you should seek a consult with either Brassard or Meltzer. During my consult with Brassard, he indicated to me that he was doing many revisions of botched surgeries and showed me a couple examples. It is going to cost you either way and your best bet is with someone who is experienced with srs. Whatever you do don't go back to Thailand even if they offer you free airfare and a crate of chili sauce!
Just out of curiosity, what was the original advice the clinic offered that got you in this mess?
Quote from: Kristyn on August 28, 2010, 01:08:52 PMIt is going to cost you either way and your best bet is with someone who is experienced with srs. Whatever you do don't go back to Thailand even if they offer you free airfare and a crate of chili sauce!
I won't! :) Very good point about the experience, in fact the surgeons over here are even experienced with fixing other surgeons' mishaps.
QuoteJust out of curiosity, what was the original advice the clinic offered that got you in this mess?
Well first Sophie said to go down to a smaller instrument to dilate with, so I bought a toy at an adult shop that was the right size to fit in there and I used that. Until I couldn't anymore. Now, about 6 weeks later, I hear from her saying oh no don't ever downsize beyond the small dilator or it will be extremely difficult to get any width back.
That's when I said it's too late, I did already because that's what I was advised to do and now she plays dumb asking me what's it too late for. She fails to grasp the concept that there isn't a large enough opening to fit the dilator into, so she's still trying to get me to just relax and slide it in effortlessly.
Well it stinks that I will have to go back to saving up cash again to get some sort of revision done over here. Do I regret choosing Dr Suporn, well no because I did not want to have either the inversion technique or the colon splice. But after this turn of events I would not recommend him to anyone. I don't know what happens next. Even a consultation with Dr Meltzer is a long way off from being feasible.
If you are going to try to work back up to the size to use your regular dilators, maybe this inexpensive set will help. It's designed for natal women to use in treating vaginismus. I have a set that I tried to use to regain depth back before I had te colon graft revision. The smallest one is about the size of a finger. The next to largest one is about the size of the smallest dilator we use.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vaginismus.com%2Fwp-content%2Fimg%2Fproducts%2Fdilators_header2.jpg&hash=44f2b0a707bf69ffe255a7aa2534f7ff0a04c6b3)
http://www.vaginismus.com/products/dilator_set (http://www.vaginismus.com/products/dilator_set)
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 28, 2010, 01:30:28 PM
Well first Sophie said to go down to a smaller instrument to dilate with, so I bought a toy at an adult shop that was the right size to fit in there and I used that. Until I couldn't anymore. Now, about 6 weeks later, I hear from her saying oh no don't ever downsize beyond the small dilator or it will be extremely difficult to get any width back.
Do you think she misunderstood thinking you were using one of the larger dilators and she meant for you to go to the smallest one? Or, did she mean for you to go smaller than the smallest dilator?
Quote
That's when I said it's too late, I did already because that's what I was advised to do and now she plays dumb asking me what's it too late for. She fails to grasp the concept that there isn't a large enough opening to fit the dilator into, so she's still trying to get me to just relax and slide it in effortlessly.
So, even when you were dilating with the small sex toy, your vagina kept wanting to close? Or, was it the pain that prevented you from dilating that caused it to close? I'm beginning to wonder if something was accidentally left inside you, i.e. a sponge, clamp, etc.
Quote
Well it stinks that I will have to go back to saving up cash again to get some sort of revision done over here. Do I regret choosing Dr Suporn, well no because I did not want to have either the inversion technique or the colon splice. But after this turn of events I would not recommend him to anyone. I don't know what happens next. Even a consultation with Dr Meltzer is a long way off from being feasible.
A consult with Brassard is only 50 dollars. I'm not sure what Meltzer would charge. Why did you not want to have the inversion technique done?
Quote from: glendagladwitch on August 28, 2010, 01:46:12 PM
If you are going to try to work back up to the size to use your regular dilators, maybe this inexpensive set will help. It's designed for natal women to use in treating vaginismus. I have a set that I tried to use to regain depth back before I had te colon graft revision. The smallest one is about the size of a finger. The next to largest one is about the size of the smallest dilator we use.
Thank you! I like that they come with a handle - that is sure to make dilation much easier than with the set Suporn provides. I wrote and asked if I can purchase just the smallest one (and a handle, naturally!) to save on expenses.
Quote from: Kristyn on August 28, 2010, 01:47:55 PM
Do you think she misunderstood thinking you were using one of the larger dilators and she meant for you to go to the smallest one? Or, did she mean for you to go smaller than the smallest dilator?
I had been using the medium (32mm) one until it became very difficult and I informed her of that nad she said go ahead and go down to the small (26mm) dilator. I now believe that to have been a big mistake. Once the day came that I was no longer able to insert that, I let her know this fact as well and told her about my having bought the toy, and she pretty much said to use whatever I can.
I took that to mean dilate with any object that would fit. So I think she may have miscommunicated, but obviously I had no way to know what she really meant so the result was catastrophic.
QuoteSo, even when you were dilating with the small sex toy, your vagina kept wanting to close? Or, was it the pain that prevented you from dilating that caused it to close? I'm beginning to wonder if something was accidentally left inside you, i.e. a sponge, clamp, etc.
Yes, it continued to contract. I don't remember how much pain I experienced though it was certainly a lot less than I'm going through right now.
I was also dilating in the morning before work and again during lunch break, and was consistently 15 minutes late each time getting to work. :-\ With such a time constraint I felt rushed which certainly didn't help. Usually I would do another session in the evening, so I was keeping up 2-3 sessions per day.
QuoteA consult with Brassard is only 50 dollars. I'm not sure what Meltzer would charge. Why did you not want to have the inversion technique done?
Glad to hear about the price of a consultation! I would still have to buy a plane ticket since I am no longer in the Phoenix metro area where Meltzer practices (Brassard is more distant from my present location but if Meltzer's cost is more than the extra distance might be worth it.). I did promise all my Phoenix friends that I would visit them, so actually a consultation with Meltzer might be in order while I'm at it!
I didn't want to have an inversion because I didn't feel right with the idea of penile tissue becoming vaginal wall tissue. In retrospect, I am even more glad now because I've heard that penile inversion neovaginae can prolapse, and I've been assured that skin graft vaginae cannot. Even if it's rare, I'd still have been afraid that it would happen. I've also been told that fistulae are impossible with Suporn's technique.
Well, this evening I did another session of stretching. I managed to get my thumb in almost to its widest point. What's really awesome is that my thumb is about 3/4 of the diameter of the 26mm dilator! At this point it should be possible to get back to being able to dilate again soon....
For the next three hours it felt like my vagina was on fire. The pain is only now subsiding thanks to having maxed out the allowed dosages on my vicodin and tramadol.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 29, 2010, 01:34:39 AM
Well, this evening I did another session of stretching. I managed to get my thumb in almost to its widest point. What's really awesome is that my thumb is about 3/4 of the diameter of the 26mm dilator! At this point it should be possible to get back to being able to dilate again soon....
For the next three hours it felt like my vagina was on fire. The pain is only now subsiding thanks to having maxed out the allowed dosages on my vicodin and tramadol.
You have to do whatever you can to work past the pain--just don't stop what you are doing. Please try and seek some professional medical help from a qualified surgeon as quickly as possible. My thoughts are with you.
I do have to agree with Kristyn that time is of the essence with this. You really need to see someone because it sound to me like you have a persistent infection in the area which needs treating. It may be an antibiotic resistant variety.
Trust me, I had problems from time to time post surgery with what was thought to be an abscess. Suffice it to say it eventually turned out not to be an abscess but a small undisclosed "anomalous" cavity which was presumably missed when my vaginal canal was created and was stopped off by the skin graft. It needed to be sorted out as it regularly filled with... well it wasn't pleasant, and it burst several times causing problems.
So please do get looked at properly as soon as you can. If the swelling can be removed, the tightness may improve.
Also, for anyone trying to choose a surgeon while I do not think it is right to totally discount a surgeon on the basis of one unfortunate incident, I think this should serve as a warning to those seeking to decide that ALL surgeons have their pros and cons. It's very easy to look at Suporn's, or indeed anyone's good results and ignore the fact that they all have the occasional problem. IF that happens to you, there is an argument which says that a surgeon just down the road will be easier to deal with than one in a different country.
Just something to think about for those of you who are looking to make a choice, and possibly a good reason to stay on your own continent.
I think the biggest lesson to pass on to others is that dilation does get painful at certain times, and that backing down dilator size will not cure the pain, only lead to greater issues regaining width. I spoke on this before, where I went through a period where it hurt like hell getting in the number three dilator, it took forever to get it in, and I bled every time. I worked through it, it took several weeks, but now the pain is gone and the bleeding is as well. The biggest mistake a person can make, in my opinion, is to back down sizes in an attempt to avoid pain. What works for me, I dilate with all three sizes every time. I start with the smallest for 10 minutes to keep depth, move to number 2 for 5 minutes to loosen things up a bit for number three, and then move to number three for 10 minutes. This has worked very well for me, and I have not lost any depth since surgery.
I never heard of inversion being more prone to prolapse than skin grafts. It would seem to me that a graft is a graft, and essentially inversion is just another version of a skin graft, just without the additional scaring of harvesting skin from other places. I have never really thought of it as the penile tissue becoming the vaginal wall tissue. It's really just skin, and over time the nature of that skin changes as it adapt to it's new use. I'm curious though how sensation differs between grafts and inversion?
Quote from: katgirl74 on August 29, 2010, 01:06:39 PM
I think the biggest lesson to pass on to others is that dilation does get painful at certain times, and that backing down dilator size will not cure the pain, only lead to greater issues regaining width. I spoke on this before, where I went through a period where it hurt like hell getting in the number three dilator, it took forever to get it in, and I bled every time. I worked through it, it took several weeks, but now the pain is gone and the bleeding is as well. The biggest mistake a person can make, in my opinion, is to back down sizes in an attempt to avoid pain. What works for me, I dilate with all three sizes every time. I start with the smallest for 10 minutes to keep depth, move to number 2 for 5 minutes to loosen things up a bit for number three, and then move to number three for 10 minutes. This has worked very well for me, and I have not lost any depth since surgery.
Nice post. Since the pain is to be expected, would one know if they will be causing themselves any damage by pushing through that threshold?
Quote
I never heard of inversion being more prone to prolapse than skin grafts. It would seem to me that a graft is a graft, and essentially inversion is just another version of a skin graft, just without the additional scaring of harvesting skin from other places. I have never really thought of it as the penile tissue becoming the vaginal wall tissue. It's really just skin, and over time the nature of that skin changes as it adapt to it's new use. I'm curious though how sensation differs between grafts and inversion?
That's exactly the way it was explained to me by Dr. Brassard. He said the penile skin is grafted to form the walls of the vagina and the risk of prolapse is next to nil.
The biggest resistance that I experienced was more from the muscles of the pelvic floor. You can really out a good amount of pressure, of course you don't want to put all your strength behind it. At first, dilation is relatively easy to get to depth. As healing occurs, you encounter more resistance, but you have a pretty good idea of what kind of depth you should be getting. So putting enough pressure and using some twisting will help work through resistance. I think one mistake that happens is people let pain prevent them from using bigger dilators or getting smaller dilators all the way to depth. Sometimes, I haev backed off due to pain, then reinserted after relaxing for a minute, then had an easier time working through resistance. One should really concentrate on getting the same depth every time and the same width, and not to back off because of pain or bleeding. You will know the difference between resistance related pain and pain pain. My doctor said the pressure from dilation should take your breath away, and that was definitely true when I had harder times, but I worked through it.
Quote from: katgirl74 on August 29, 2010, 03:48:33 PM
The biggest resistance that I experienced was more from the muscles of the pelvic floor. You can really out a good amount of pressure, of course you don't want to put all your strength behind it. At first, dilation is relatively easy to get to depth. As healing occurs, you encounter more resistance, but you have a pretty good idea of what kind of depth you should be getting. So putting enough pressure and using some twisting will help work through resistance. I think one mistake that happens is people let pain prevent them from using bigger dilators or getting smaller dilators all the way to depth. Sometimes, I haev backed off due to pain, then reinserted after relaxing for a minute, then had an easier time working through resistance. One should really concentrate on getting the same depth every time and the same width, and not to back off because of pain or bleeding. You will know the difference between resistance related pain and pain pain. My doctor said the pressure from dilation should take your breath away, and that was definitely true when I had harder times, but I worked through it.
So, does most of the resistance and pain occur around the pc muscle(pelvic floor) or does that vary as well?
The biggest pain and resistance was from the PC muscles. There is also some resistance in the area where the two grafts meet about 3/4 of the way in, but working through that is not very difficult and is pain free. At this point, I don't have any real pain or discomfort from dilation. The PC muscles have to get used to being dilated and stretched, something they have not been accustomed to.
Quote from: katgirl74 on August 30, 2010, 09:28:44 PM
The biggest pain and resistance was from the PC muscles. There is also some resistance in the area where the two grafts meet about 3/4 of the way in, but working through that is not very difficult and is pain free. At this point, I don't have any real pain or discomfort from dilation. The PC muscles have to get used to being dilated and stretched, something they have not been accustomed to.
Thanks Kat. So I'm taking that relaxation is definitely the key when it comes to dilating.
Since my last post I've been in so much pain that douching is difficult, and the infection has returned. :( Today I had my final correspondence with the clinic.
Quote from: SophieDear Julie,
Dilation and retention of vaginal depth is the responsibility of the patient. We give advice and guidance, but you have to do the hard work. Your "predicament" has not been brought about by any advice I have given you, but by nothing other than your own inability or reluctance to face the discomfort of dilation. I have successfully helped about 1000 patients recover from SRS with Dr Suporn, and have more experience with the subject of dilation than any other. There is no advice or guidance that I, nor anyone else, could possibly have given that would have been more comprehensive and appropriate to your need at the time. The failure is not mine, even if you would like to think it is. I am sorry that dilation has not worked for you, but I am pleased now to hear that you are surrounded by competent people who are able to help you resolve your problem.
I would like updates, thank you. and it would be nice to hear when you have finally resolved the problem that you have been having, and let me know what was done to solve it.
Best Wishes
Sophie
All's I could think after reading that is what an idiot.
Quote from: meYeah, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. You go ahead just keep
living in your own little world.
I knew a long time ago that something was very wrong. But you wouldn't
listen. I kept you informed about screaming in agony half the day
after attempting to stretch. But no, my problems are my own ---king
fault. And now I'm facing the definite possibility of losing my vagina
completely. Well you know what, just forget about me. You all have
lost a patient.
I'm putting your email address on block. You can forget about ever
receiving any more g-----n updates.
J
(Censored for this board.)
So this is really it. With my financial situation a transgender surgeon is completely out of my reach; if I can get rid of this infection then stretching will be possible again until I land a full time job. If a local doctor can't give me something to hold the ring open then I might have to cope with living without a vagina.
I want to reply to everyone's posts once I'm in a little less pain.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on August 31, 2010, 12:23:16 PM
Since my last post I've been in so much pain that douching is difficult, and the infection has returned. :( Today I had my final correspondence with the clinic.
All's I could think after reading that is what an idiot.
(Censored for this board.)
So this is really it. With my financial situation a transgender surgeon is completely out of my reach; if I can get rid of this infection then stretching will be possible again until I land a full time job. If a local doctor can't give me something to hold the ring open then I might have to cope with living without a vagina.
I want to reply to everyone's posts once I'm in a little less pain.
Dawk, this posting has brought a tear to my eye. I really wish I could just squeeze you and make it all go away. Have you made any attempts at seeing a local doc? What are you doing about the infection? Please see someone even it is a local clinic.
Quote from: Kristyn on August 31, 2010, 01:45:44 PM
What are you doing about the infection? Please see someone even it is a local clinic.
I was thinking the same thing someone has to see you even if it's a free clinic.
Thank you Kristyn & Jessica. *hugs* I went to an emergency care clinic yesterday (Tuesday) and the doc gave me a whole bunch of antibiotics and some more pain meds. Thank goodness!!!! I think (and hope) this will finally do it.
I told him that I had undergone surgery to create a vaginal opening but I didn't specify what kind of surgeon or tell him I'm trans. I mentioned having to dilate and being unable to. He tried to look inside but it hurt a lot so he said maybe my gyn could examine me under anaesthesia and maybe even dilate me while she's at it. From what he said it seems like they can do that pretty easily.
If my gyn can dilate me a few times then maybe my opening will loosen up enough that I will become able to do it myself again. *excited*
Quote from: Dàwkbua on September 01, 2010, 03:04:03 AM
Thank you Kristyn & Jessica. *hugs* I went to an emergency care clinic yesterday (Tuesday) and the doc gave me a whole bunch of antibiotics and some more pain meds. Thank goodness!!!! I think (and hope) this will finally do it.
I told him that I had undergone surgery to create a vaginal opening but I didn't specify what kind of surgeon or tell him I'm trans. I mentioned having to dilate and being unable to. He tried to look inside but it hurt a lot so he said maybe my gyn could examine me under anaesthesia and maybe even dilate me while she's at it. From what he said it seems like they can do that pretty easily.
If my gyn can dilate me a few times then maybe my opening will loosen up enough that I will become able to do it myself again. *excited*
Dawk, you are brilliant and very, very brave! I'm both happy and excited for you! Please do not give up and try and stay positive. YOU WILL WIN THIS! :) Please keep us updated.
Post surgery complications should always be allowed for....my second stage labiaplasty though I'm told has gone very well, I'm now day 2 post-op...
When Dr. M opened me up I had far more internal scar tissue from the original SRS surgery (back 18 years ago), more imbedded than he was expecting... so was down for extra time or so... and my urethral repositioning was trickier to do...
While keeping all the existing nerve, clitoral tissue fully intact....
So I'm really pleased that my gut-instinct to go with a full GA was indulged, though not standard practice here.
And I will have to live with a Catheter now till at least next Mon..... this I wasn't expecting... as usually there out the next day....which it would have been if Toby had done the original SRS just a few months back.
So here I am too... having to be patient and diligent with my aftercare which will be more complex than I'd initially prepared for...but I'm in the US till the 28th so have time for another tweak if need be.
But a statement I like is 'what will be, will be'
And determination to get through no matter what is defo what sets women like us apart from mainstream society....
Though getting through it is never a breeze in the park...
So keep the faith Dawkbua, dig deep and you'll get there.....
Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 01, 2010, 07:50:21 AM
And determination to get through no matter what is defo what sets women like us apart from mainstream society....
Good point!
You had srs 18 years ago. What did you just have done?
Hi Kristyn,
In 92' I had my original GRS surgery in Brighton, UK with Mr Royle... a one stage procedure, but he was one of the early adopter Dr' for sensate clitoris creation, a new procedure at that time, Dr M informed me yesterday that this had worked well for me as the tissues had developed and settled in well, over the years.
Which is why I guess even 18 years in things kept improving for me.
However, vanity and the fact that I noticed a lump increasing slowly in size over the last three years within one side of my vaginal wall, made me realise a 2nd stage revision would probably be prudent.
So when I finally got the funds together (march this year) I started once more on the journey of seeking out the best help and care I could get.
Which in my case has brought me from England on a 10'5hr flight to Scottsdale.
As Dr M does oh so many of these procedures 4 this week alone....he's a fair-bet choice in my opinion....
But its early days... so I will not really know what's what till at least 6 weeks or so.... but so far all the nurses checking ma girlie bits say he's done an neat, pretty and tidy ab-fab job....
I'm also booked in for some lip and hip buttock contouring, so this is next on the 14th.... special thanks also go to Dr. Best Toby's anesthetist a lovely chap.... and the best I felt ever waking up post GA, but then 4 litres of fluid went in to keep me uber-hydrated with no sickly hang-over...
So the whole care team here are very special.... and would explain the high fees, good people cost....but are worth it!
Other top tip, a hospital with open Wi-fi and allowing me my laptop, while bed-bound are keeping me well focused... and mentally distracted as I while away the hours....getting better bit, by bit....lol
Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 01, 2010, 09:16:06 AM
Which in my case has brought me from England on a 10'5hr flight to Scottsdale.
Wow! Talk about culture shock! :laugh:
Good luck and heal well!
thanks hon....
And not really too much of a culture shock...lol as we gave you Yanks the gift of our language.....English!
And Scottsdale fashion centre has all all the brands we love in the UK, so feel right at home there....
I was just reading an account of a MtF who had srs with Dr Bieber a long time ago and he told her that the joining ring would get tight and would bleed during dilation but not to worry even if a few stitches popped.
So what would be interesting to know is which surgeons use a technique that sews bits of inverted penis or scrotum skin onto the opening they make and who uses other techniques with less of a risk of this tight ring business.
I am reminded also of a relative who got a bad case of piles and surgery for that left him with a glass tube inserted in his rectum for a few days to make sure everything healed.
Who is brave enough to ask a srs surgeon about inserting such a thing as an alternative to the op recovery packing ?
It seems to me if wise you don't tell a surgeon what to do...
As its highly unlikely unless you're a working/practising/lecturing medic yourself that you'd have access to the medical books, papers and clinical data that they have..
Any surgeon of note in their field looks to publish papers as it raises their academic standing.... there usually a highly competitive bunch.... which brings better results for us patients...long-term
However I've alluded to clinical papers or results if I feel it will help in a procedure for myself...
Why keep a dog and bark yourself...eh?
I haven't had any hands on experience with this yet, but I always thought the tightness came from the muscle? They slice the muscle down the middle and as it is all healing the muscle tightens up and tries to heal? ??? Stretching the muscle and skin everyday teaches it to stay open? Is it the muscle and/or the skin that is creating the tightness?
So glad to hear you may have found a solution to your problem. I hope they can not only get the infection under control, but also dilate you enough where you can start stretching things out again. Keeping you in my thoughts.
Kat
Quote from: Dàwkbua on September 01, 2010, 03:04:03 AM
Thank you Kristyn & Jessica. *hugs* I went to an emergency care clinic yesterday (Tuesday) and the doc gave me a whole bunch of antibiotics and some more pain meds. Thank goodness!!!! I think (and hope) this will finally do it.
*excited*
My thoughts are with you Dàwkbua. I know I was of absolutely no help in this, but I still keep thinking about you, and hope you get through this with a satisfactory result.
We were so close together in our dates, with the same surgeon. I'm so sorry you got the "unlucky straw", and just know there's one other out there rooting for you as you battle through this.
*huggs*,
Melan
Quote from: Muffin on September 01, 2010, 08:24:29 PM
I haven't had any hands on experience with this yet, but I always thought the tightness came from the muscle? They slice the muscle down the middle and as it is all healing the muscle tightens up and tries to heal? ??? Stretching the muscle and skin everyday teaches it to stay open? Is it the muscle and/or the skin that is creating the tightness?
That's what I thought at first, well more specificlly I thought the muscle was the major obstacle tp be overcome & that's why we have to relax for dilation. So I thought I was good to go beause I could relax the muscle just fine but then I started to where I couldn't reach it at all & that's when they told me about the scar tissue. ::) Well they still said just relax, just relax, and I thought what gives you can't relax scar tissue.
Quote from: Melan on September 01, 2010, 11:31:27 PMWe were so close together in our dates, with the same surgeon. I'm so sorry you got the "unlucky straw", and just know there's one other out there rooting for you as you battle through this.
*huggs*,
Melan
Thank you. :) I know plenty of his patients do just fine... I'm envious... like wanting to ask how do you all manage it. Was dilation ever super painful? Did you ever have to step down a size, after having already returned home? Did it get easier after the 3 month mark, like they told me it would? (For me that's when it first started getting more difficult.)
Tomorrow I go back to the doc to get a set of smaller dilators. She says that will be my best bet.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on September 08, 2010, 07:28:23 PM
Thank you. :) I know plenty of his patients do just fine... I'm envious... like wanting to ask how do you all manage it. Was dilation ever super painful? Did you ever have to step down a size, after having already returned home? Did it get easier after the 3 month mark, like they told me it would? (For me that's when it first started getting more difficult.)
Sorry I missed your note last week, something about notifications on Susan's doesn't work like it did before the upgrade, or I would have replied faster.
When I got back home from Thailand, every dilation seemed to be a tough one. If I pushed it, I bled more. But the bleeding always stopped. The first month back (2nd month post-op) hurt, but nothing that one (or two) of the green/yellow pills before a dilation couldn't fix. I never had pain post dilation, and nothing to the degree you described. (I can't fathom how you even took it!) The act of dilation was painful. There were times when dilation hurt so bad that I stopped early, but that was usually pain coming from the back wall, like pushing into the intestines. But I was able to pick it back up on the next session.
I did step it down to the smallest dilator that we get, twice. But I was always reluctant to, and lucky enough, that with enough working it, to get the medium 'boy' in most every time, though it took up to 15 minutes regularly the 2nd month. The third month sucked as much, but got easier towards the end of it. But I also had to return to work in the 3rd month, and dilations dropped to morning and night, which proved to be ok for the for 4th and 5th months.
I hope the infection is cured, if that is what it was? If you no longer have pain, I would do everything to get the cavity reformed through your own dilation efforts, but with doctors advice. I know you think you burned your bridge with Sophie, I can't imagine that would be the case. But I think you can salvage some loss, by going forth with what you have... I know that I've lost over an inch or more in depth at my worst point, but 'dug it back out' when I got a better handle on how dilation worked for me. The width shouldn't be so much an issue, once and if, you can get a foothold into it.
I'm just blabbering, I really hope you can get past the pain, find a solution for it.
*huggs*,
Melan
I'm wondering if maybe my rush to get a session accomplished each morning & noon might have made those sessions inadequate. As it was I was constantly late for work.
The pain is still here though I've not been stretching regularly. (Bad Dawkbua!) I suspect it will be with me throughout the process of working back up to the medium dilator. I still aspire to use the large one someday....
How did you "dig out" that last inch? Was it just inward pressure that did it, or maybe the motion from the stirring?
My heart goes out to you Dawkbua and I hope you can get through what must be a terribly upsetting time. I had my surgery two months ago with Dr Suporn and am entering the dreaded third month and it is a bit daunting reading what you and Melan have written. Most of my time in getting to depth is spent on the last inch. From the pictures of the sheath and the number of stitches in that last inch I can understand why. I actually found it beneficial to see the photos cause it gave me an idea of what I was battling against. Dont know wether that would help you as well.
Hope all resolves itself.
Krissy
I'm in my 3rd month now but I've noticed it is finally getting better through persistence. It got a lot worse before it got better though, and it is s-l-o-w progress. I am still dilating 4 to 5 times/day for 35-45 minutes each time which I think has helped a whole lot. I've noticed the first one in the morning is the most critical and the longer I go between overnight the harder that one is, but that last inch seems to be hard for everyone. Maintain it with constant pressure yes, and gentle twisting. Once it's reached a little gentle up/down/side/side motion helps too.
I'm glad to hear you are making some progress and hope you continue to get better! :)
Quote from: Dàwkbua on September 08, 2010, 11:16:35 PM
I'm wondering if maybe my rush to get a session accomplished each morning & noon might have made those sessions inadequate. As it was I was constantly late for work.
The pain is still here though I've not been stretching regularly. (Bad Dawkbua!) I suspect it will be with me throughout the process of working back up to the medium dilator. I still aspire to use the large one someday....
How did you "dig out" that last inch? Was it just inward pressure that did it, or maybe the motion from the stirring?
Oh the dilating on top of a work day is fun. I would get up at 5am, dilate for an hour. Be at work by 8, get off at 5, go home relax, then dilate for an hour then. It was an automatic 12 hours a day spent on dilation and work. Puts a real dinger on the social life. But after month 5, I could get by with just the one dilation after work, so that was nice, sleeping in an extra hour. On weekends I would dilate twice a day, to keep up the routine, until month 6. Now I just dilate once every day to every other day. BUT.. I ALWAYS dilate for an hour. And what Sophie calls Active Dilation.. or a Quality dilation session. I always walk away feeling like I pushed myself, and I literally do, lol.
As far as the getting the depth back, it's the same idea as the active dilation. Which involves two techniques. You stir (not twist) the dilator for a period of time (I'm not exact, but 30 seconds is ok) for width, then push straight on the dilator, hard as far in as it will go, for depth. This is the important part of the exercise. Do this for 10 seconds. I sometimes softly move it about when doing this, but mostly just apply pressure into the back of the vaginal wall. But this is where I "dig" a bit too, when I'm warmed up. Repeat those two steps. I do it for an hour. If I bleed lightly, I just continue, but then stay away from the sore spot. I've never had to stop from the bleeding, but I used to stop, when it just creeped me out enough.
I think it's important to stir, in order to have success at the push/dig part. Once I got a feel for it, I really felt like I could plumb the depths :icon_poke: of the cavity that was created for me, and really fight back the scar tissue.
Good luck!
Melan
Dàwkbua,
Not sure if you are a member, and follow, the Dr S yahoo group, but someone very recently posted something there similar to what you describe, in terms of pain and dilation difficulties , and where they are now... it's very hopeful, and ultimately a success story.
If you aren't in that group, you may wish to join it.
*huggs*
Melan
Being persistent through the hard times definitely pays off. There were times I was frustrated by pain and difficulty, and now those days are gone. At four month, even the larger dialtors that uses to initimidate me are easy. Twice this last week, I went 24 hours between dilations, once my alarm did not go off so I had no time in the morning, the other because I spent too much time snuggling with my girlfriend, but when I got to the evening dilation all was good. Now if I had given in to the pain and the difficulty, I would not be where I am today. Keep pushing forward, or in as the case may be, and never ever give up!
katgirl that's gREAT to hear ;')) and Melan I'm takin note both you and Chloe talk about the stir and push ummmmmmm. Good to know ;'))) looks like I have alot to look forward to
It could prob be the Kegle/pelvic muscle that may have caused the problem. What they do is make cuts into the muscle to make the girth wider. I would talk to Dr. Harold Reed. He did a very good job on my revision and I also had alot of irritation and very hard to dilate after the 2nd month post op..IMO Dr Reed is the best in revisionary work. His website is SRSMiami.com He has an ambulatory OR on site, which is much better than any hospital's OR i have ever seen, and Ive been in alot of OR's. This guy know what hes doin.
Dàwkbua, If you are still there I want you to know I also had Suporn as my surgeon and face the same problems as you are. I am happy with my aesthetic and sensation but like you my depth wouldn't keep despite my efforts to dilate as recommended. I had granulation and very powerful contractions probably due to my young age, and had to take 2 Vicodin just to stomach a dilation session. I dilated longer, and more vigorously than recommended and yet I still continued losing width and depth. After about the 7th panic attack since I got home (about the third month in) I had to stop for my own mental sanity (and my poor boyfriend's), and within a weeks it had sealed up completely. I don't believe any amount of stretching will help at this point and have accepted that I either will not have penetration or will need a colon transplant revision.
I was also blamed for not doing my sessions right, and wonder if I made the right surgeon choice looking back. I still think my priority is sensation and appearance, which Suporn was best at, but I believe he misrepresents his depth and doesn't stress how crucial and problematic dilation is with his skin graft technique until AFTER its over. I think we owe it to the community to get the word out that his surgery can lead to this kind of outcome for some of his patients.
Please describe granulation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granulation_tissue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granulation_tissue)
Phew. Some of that reading is difficult, but I understand.
Thanks!
Quote from: 999 on November 10, 2010, 08:16:56 AM
I don't believe any amount of stretching will help at this point and have accepted that I either will not have penetration or will need a colon transplant revision.
Dear 999,
I must say I really feel for you and understand how frustrated you are. However, please consider less radical solutions before trying the colon graft. That also has its own issues in the long run. To me it sounds like scarification but it could have something to do with muscles as Michelle mentioned.
You should try contacting Dr. Suporn, if he is not willing to offer you a satisfactory solution, then you can consider visiting a local surgeon or another Thai surgeon to give you a revision.
I heard of another girl going through similar issues from a friend of mine who is a Suporn patient. It is easy for those who got good results to parade about their surgeons (not doubting their positive experience), yet there is always another side to the coin. I think more girls need to come forward and enlighten those who are having complications so they can be helped.
I wish you lots of healing.
Love.
This made me realize that i haven't dilated in a week now...stupid holidays.
And...yeah it was tough. For me it was about the second month that i remember laying down and doing my dilation when it REALLY started to tighten up and hurt like hell. I refused to use pain killers so i just dealt with screaming into my pillow, i remember one time i almost cried while pushing it in. I was thinking...geez why did i do this to myself, is it all worth it now?
Dilating is not something to be cavalier about. It requires dedication and perseverance. I had my srs june 09 with brassard. I took three months off of work and it literally seemed that all i did was dilate For awhile like 3-4 months post op i thought I lost close to an inch, but being dilligent I reached my original depth. I think also the swelling subsiding helped make it easier. A friend of mine turned me onto the idea of the plastic applicators filled with lube, that helped immensely, as well as having the dilator in a hot glass of water. The warmth helps relax the muscle and with the lube applicator dilating is alot easier.
Now I dilate about once a week, with orignal depth and the number 4 dilator. Sounds like Suporns aftercare is pretty tough. My dilation sessions were at max a 5 out of 10 painwise during the first month or so, but thereafter hardly any pain, more discomfort than anything. I wish the op best of luck.
So i didnt dilate for a week..when i started last night it was really really tough and i thought i had lost an inch. But then after grinding my teeth i finally made it in to my original depth. This is after over a year after my SRS. are we doomed to do this forever?
Quote from: KillBelle on December 27, 2010, 04:29:18 PM
are we doomed to do this forever?
Seems so. Dilating is gonna be a blast when we are 80! :laugh:
Firstly: If you are a Suporn patient and you require a revision, for whatever reason, it is FREE OF CHARGE. This is an important thing to note. No other surgeon does this.
If you require a revision, you should always go to the surgeon who performed the original op (be it Brassard, Bowers, Kunaporn, Suporn, McGinn), as they are the most familiar with the technique used.
One of the most important things to remember about dilation is to relax. If you go into your dilation sessions with an attitude of 'Oh god this will hurt' or 'This effing sucks balls and I hate it' then you're going to be tense and it will be difficult to dilate. If you rely on drugs to get you through dilation, you will be exacerbating this and reinforcing you mindset that dilation is horrible.
I'm a Suporn patient and I'm in month 2. I've lost no depth (I managed to get back the 1/2 inch I thought I'd lost on the plane trip home). My current schedule is three times a day, 15 min per session. It's important to try and reach depth, then do dynamic dilation ('stiring the pot') for at least 5 min. The constitutes a quality session. Reaching depth and holding the dilator there isn't going to anything; you're trying to work against the contraction of scar tissue, which won't work if you don't do dynamic.
You should also be moving up to the Large dilator in the second month. I've managed to do this successfully and it doesn't cause any undue pain or bleeding.
To be quite frank, 90% of the patients who have problems don't listen to the surgeon and do not dilate correctly. The other 10% have biological issues that cannot be accounted for prior to surgery, and would have problems no matter which surgeon they went to.
I never did the large dilator...is this bad? Ive been on "M" for the entire year.
Quote from: KillBelle on December 28, 2010, 01:18:08 AM
I never did the large dilator...is this bad? Ive been on "M" for the entire year.
If you'd listened to Suporn and his staff, especially during the Post-op Aftercare class, you'd have been told when to move up to the large dilator. Which of the clinic girls took you for your Aftercare class?
Also, the 'Post-op Care' manual that you were given details everything you need to know about dilation - the part about the large dilator is right before the '3 Golden Rules of Dilation' section.
Quote from: Babz on December 28, 2010, 04:44:39 AM
HI Vexing, Thanks for those sound words It ~Is generaly true that people and I dont mean this In a horrible way we dont always read or listen to people properly. You have put my mind at rest. There Is an old saying In my profession that I have now retired from Is RTFQ = 1/2 TBA Read The Fu..ken Question =Half The BL--dy Answer I hope I have not offended anybody by this .
Babz
Yup, we have a similar saying; RTFM - Read The Fracking Manual.
There are inconsistancies between the manual and what is told by the clinic staff (the manual I had anyway). But generally it is a very informative guide.
We each need to find what works best to fit dilation into our lifestyles, but the priority is to get those "Quality" dilation sessions.
I know of some girls who couldnt cope with the dilation and didnt care if they lost depth. Very easy thing to think at the time but bound to be full of regrets later on.
As they say it is not a quality dilation unless you make it hurt.
My regime consisted of two sessions a day and like Melan I extended the time of quality dilation than what was recommended. At 5 months post I was down to once a day spending 15min on medium and 15 min on large. One thing Ive always done is keep constant pressure on while dilating.
Im still tight at the vaginal entrance but I guess this will go after time.
My heart goes out to the girls that have followed everything to the letter. That really sucks that your having problems and I hope everything works out. To the girls who brought this on themselves thru inaction you cant really expect any sympathy. Harsh but oh well.
Quote from: KillBelle on December 27, 2010, 04:38:33 AM
And...yeah it was tough. For me it was about the second month that i remember laying down and doing my dilation when it REALLY started to tighten up and hurt like hell. I refused to use pain killers so i just dealt with screaming into my pillow, i remember one time i almost cried while pushing it in. I was thinking...geez why did i do this to myself, is it all worth it now?
Because of contraction around my vaginal opening I lost the use of the large dilator at just over 4 months post-op. I persisted however with the next smaller size, maintained all my depth and even gained nearly an extra centimetre, and now in the last week or so I've discovered that I can actually go back to Mr. Big again with little or no problems after almost 2 months. Merry Christmas to me, huh? The skin has softened and stretched back again so now it's easy-peasy. But I originally had to stop using the larger dilator because the pain became unbearable and I literally couldn't force it in any longer (no pun intended lol). I had plenty of tears but persistence paid off, and now at 6 months+ I only need to dilate once a day, I can use my larger dilator again, and I still have good depth.
To me now, dilation has become almost like a security blanket, a time of meditation and quiet reflection. I often extend my daily session longer than Dr. McGinn's recommended half hour, and even after 6 months of it I actually look forward to that time every day. It is a constant reminder to me, not of my past, but of how absolutely wonderful it is to be where I am now, completed. I hope I never lose that thankfulness I feel.
He's strong and hard, and I am soft and wet; he pushes and I submit; he takes my very breath, and I can only sigh.
He's large and I am so small; he enters me and I feel him deeply; he penetrates me and I relax and yield, opening myself fully to him.
And as we lie there moving together, This symbol of my eternal commitment and I, he reminds me I am whole ~ so even when it hurts, I smile. :)Speaking of my dilator, of course ;)
That's so hot Chloe. Thank you for the words. Smiling..... umm... I need to go.. dilate ... now :)
*huggs*,
Melan
I love it !!!!! I'm so happy for you Chloe.....MERRY XMAS MAMA ;')))
That's really inspiring Chloe :)
Quote from: FairyGirl on December 29, 2010, 06:07:09 PM
He's strong and hard, and I am soft and wet; he pushes and I submit; he takes my very breath, and I can only sigh.
He's large and I am so small; he enters me and I feel him deeply; he penetrates me and I relax and yield, opening myself fully to him.
And as we lie there moving together, This symbol of my eternal commitment and I, he reminds me I am whole ~ so even when it hurts, I smile. :)
Speaking of my dilator, of course ;)
Interesting; if I had to gender my dilators, they'd be female - despite the fact that I'm straight.
At nearly 8 months post op, I just tried the large, #4 dilator, for the first time last night. I'll admit that I was intimidated by it for a while. Also, when things were healing more and skin was tightening, #3 was bad enough I wasn't quite willing to experience more pain and discomfort with #4. I finally decided that if I paid for the darn thing I might as well try it at least once. Well, to my surprise, even though it took my breath away at first, it wasn't all that bad. Time has definitely made things more elastic down there, so I will be adding #4 to my dilation routine. At this point I dilate once ever two to three days, rarely every day. I also may differ from some in that I use every dilator, starting smallest to largest, for about 10 minutes each to ensure I maintain depth and it just seems easier to work my way up rather than starting off with something larger, this was especially true earlier in the game. I was very pleasantly surprised how well that went last night. I recall when I went to #3 for the first time it was no fun at all! This was actually pretty good.
Kat
I know it's been a long time but I guess this thread is overdue for an update.
At more than 11 months post-op it's pretty much closed now. I can't fit anything much larger than approximately the diameter of a pencil. On the bright side, I seem to not have lost any depth since August. Going to try to go back for a revision as soon as funds allow.
And yes, I did the 2-3x/day stirring for 15 minutes & made it hurt, but the hard tissue still formed anyway. I should have made it hurt more, should have persisted with the medium dilator, should not have been afraid of tearing something because I guess that happens sometimes. I might still have closed up but at least it would have taken longer.
Quote from: Audrey on December 27, 2010, 07:58:06 AMA friend of mine turned me onto the idea of the plastic applicators filled with lube, that helped immensely, as well as having the dilator in a hot glass of water. The warmth helps relax the muscle and with the lube applicator dilating is alot easier.
Awesome advice - wish I'd thought of that!!! :)
Quote from: Dàwkbua on February 15, 2011, 07:54:41 PM
I know it's been a long time but I guess this thread is overdue for an update.
At more than 11 months post-op it's pretty much closed now. I can't fit anything much larger than approximately the diameter of a pencil. On the bright side, I seem to not have lost any depth since August. Going to try to go back for a revision as soon as funds allow.
And yes, I did the 2-3x/day stirring for 15 minutes & made it hurt, but the hard tissue still formed anyway. I should have made it hurt more, should have persisted with the medium dilator, should not have been afraid of tearing something because I guess that happens sometimes. I might still have closed up but at least it would have taken longer.
Awesome advice - wish I'd thought of that!!! :)
I'm sorry Dawkbua. I really hope that you get the funds required and have this revised.
Take care.
Wow Dàwkbua,
I'm sorry to hear about what's happened since your last update. I wondered what had happened since I saw you hadn't been on since September. Your post here makes me think long and hard about choosing Dr. Suporn. I realize he's had hundreds of very satisfied patients, and every surgeon has a case that doesn't go very well, but I probably wouldn't be able to head right back to Thailand if I were in your situation. I'm seriously now considering going to a US surgeon just so I know I am close enough if I need to be. Have you had a consultation with a US surgeon to find out what they can do?
I can't afford a consultation. Though I did see a gynecological surgeon here and he said he wouldn't dare attempt to fix me up. I guess it's just as well since he definitely had no idea what Dr Suporn did. He mostly seemed to not want to have to deal with me at all.
I'm not sure where you are located, but I know a lot of the surgeon's do consultations pretty inexpensively. Something like $50? Of course if you aren't close travel has to be factored in but I hope you are able to find out sometime soon!
One of the ladies in our trans group the other day talked about how she was shown incorrectly how to dilate and she ended up not putting them in as far as she could. What ended up happening is that her vaginal canal at the very deepest part contracted to the point where she couldn't even quite put her finger in. After having trouble getting an appointment with her surgeon, she ended up seeing Dr. McGinn in New Hope, PA.
After consulting with her for an hour or so, Dr. McGinn pulled out some very skinny dilators and recommended she try those to gently work an increase in her width. So she she started with the smallest one and was eventually able to recover full width over the whole length of her vaginal canal. She brought the dilators to show the group. She had the standard four from small to frighteningly large and then another set of two skinny ones.
She got the dilators from soul source:
http://www.soulsourceenterprises.com/html/products_grs.html (http://www.soulsourceenterprises.com/html/products_grs.html)
Apparently, she said they don't list them on the site. You should call them directly. I am out of my direct experience here, so YMMV, but I would call Dr. McGinn's office or at least call soul source. Hope that helps.
http://www.transgenderzone.com/library/ae/fulltext/29.htm (http://www.transgenderzone.com/library/ae/fulltext/29.htm)
This explains, in detail, dilation.
If you stop then you are very foolhardy. We all started in a great deal of pain but you just have to suck it up and deal with it its a medical wound after all. It gets much easier though I was hooked on pain killers for three months but I got over it now I take none I had also lost depth lots of it and width so I went with a smaller dilator then over time larger and larger and gained width I never had before. Just keep at it but you are just defeating you self atm. .....there is hope dee I can assure you.
They told me not to downsize below the smallest dilator I was provided with (of course they told me this much too late....) but your mileage may vary since you went to a different surgeon than I did.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on March 12, 2011, 10:54:01 AM
They told me not to downsize below the smallest dilator I was provided with (of course they told me this much too late....) but your mileage may vary since you went to a different surgeon than I did.
Hey girl its been 8 months since this post and wonder how your doing now, if you fixed problem with width or whats happend?
Quote from: mmelny on August 23, 2010, 07:17:38 PM
Hi Dàwkbua,
Can I ask, what prevented you from dilating? Was it pain? Discomfort?
I just ask because I went through a really bad time at about 2.5 - 4.5 months in, but managed to fight through it. It was painful, discomforting, and even bloody. I managed to get my (sympathetic) local doc to give me pain pills for dilations through month 4, and it was needed. But the key was to fight through it, at least in my case.
I have no idea what you are experiencing, I can only relate my experience. I sent Sophie a few desperate emails, and her responses got me through it. I think the best was the picture of the scar ring, and I just knew that I had to focus on that when it was to hard to 'chew' through it, even with the smallest dilator. Like Birdy related, I can remember spending 6-10 minutes just to break through that scar ring.. it was tight, and I really thought I was messed up, that it was so hard to get through, sometimes thinking I never would. I had a few dilations where I would give up, but I would get right back to it ... because I knew it HAD to be done.
I wish you the best of luck, and all of my best wishes are with you. I am not telling you to push yourself on your dilations, because I'm no doctor and I don't want you to hurt yourself, but I know that I pushed to a point at times, both in the stirring lateral motions, as well as depth-wise, that I wondered if I weren't doing something wrong, because it HURT so much. The depth dilation was at times, like pushing right into my bowel, and it felt, so horrid. I would bleed when I stirred hard for the width exercises, but holding the dilator in, and still for a bit of time (the manual tells you to do this), the bleeding would stop quickly. This whole regimen is extremely hard, and no manual, or clinic girls can prepare you (or well, me) for what happens when you get home and are faced with this thing on your own. Not truly.
Ultimately you HAVE to listen to Sophie. She has the experience. She's been through this with hundreds of women. She is your link. Trust her, and follow her guidance. I doubted her at times, but I read her emails over and over, and just followed them, she really does know what she is talking about. She did spend the time to answer my questions and issues.
One thing I noted from something you said in a previous post in this thread, ask Sophie directly about the 15 minute limit you cited earlier. I've never dilated for only 15 minutes. My dilations last from 35-60 minutes, even now, at 7 months post op. I only do one every day or two now, but I always make it a long one, just out of practice. Even when I was dilating 2-3 times a day, I was doing at least 45 minutes each.
My thoughts are with you, and I hope you can persevere and get through this without additional surgery.
*huggs*,
Melan
Hey girl, i was wondering how your depth and width ended up, and if your happy with your suporn result or still having pain and trouble, thanks,
Quote from: 999 on November 10, 2010, 08:16:56 AM
Dàwkbua, If you are still there I want you to know I also had Suporn as my surgeon and face the same problems as you are. I am happy with my aesthetic and sensation but like you my depth wouldn't keep despite my efforts to dilate as recommended. I had granulation and very powerful contractions probably due to my young age, and had to take 2 Vicodin just to stomach a dilation session. I dilated longer, and more vigorously than recommended and yet I still continued losing width and depth. After about the 7th panic attack since I got home (about the third month in) I had to stop for my own mental sanity (and my poor boyfriend's), and within a weeks it had sealed up completely. I don't believe any amount of stretching will help at this point and have accepted that I either will not have penetration or will need a colon transplant revision.
I was also blamed for not doing my sessions right, and wonder if I made the right surgeon choice looking back. I still think my priority is sensation and appearance, which Suporn was best at, but I believe he misrepresents his depth and doesn't stress how crucial and problematic dilation is with his skin graft technique until AFTER its over. I think we owe it to the community to get the word out that his surgery can lead to this kind of outcome for some of his patients.
Hy girl i was wondering how you are doing now with width and depth if your still having issues,
Yes, it be interesting to know for me too.
A tg friend had colon-section ~ 5 month ago and was NEVER told to dilate... hear. hear! - And didn't.
She can not even fit her little finger inside the entrance by now.
I have actually seen the closed up vj --- amazing! Maybe 8mm diameter entry, after such a short time and no dilating!
So, it be interesting to know if this may be reversed with diligent dilating starting with 3/8" or even less, say 5/16".
Axelle
Her followup is in the SRS forum.
Help please, blond, can't find.
Thanks,
A
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet as there's now too many pages to read through, however have you tried graduating the stents? First work with the smallest you can get in there and dilate, then after your dilating time is up, slip the next size up in if you can. It should be easier to get in. Once you have that one in try dilating with that one first and then the next sized one for a while until you can get in the larger one on it's one. Eventually graduate up again using the same method to get to that one.
Thanks for the link, I read it. What a painful thing it was. I wonder how it does right now.
I'm of course also thinking of my gf that had her op with SBAH in SA.
Also just pencil size she is at present.
Will she go through the same? Oh my.
I been with her when she had her second of three ops (colon-section) and THAT was bad.
Vomiting for one week and pain killers for breakfast, lunch and dinner... not nice to see.
Just a bit rattled now I read this all, after my op was thankfully so eventless other the 3rd (wall papering) op a 9 - 10/10 for pain - fortunately just until the morphine kicked in.
Thanks again,
Axelle
Quoteso eventless other the 3rd (wall papering) op a 9 - 10/10 for pain
I'm sorry dear, it happens for some of us. I went through a similar level of pain. Not fun at all. Then complications.
Then to be hear that SRS isnt important or necessary from some... well good for them. But in spite of the pain, I am glad I did it, thrilled even that I have a female body now, and imagine you are too. There was no price too high.
Thanks hon,
yet as always - we ALL differ.
My room neighbour (next door) had no pain at all after her 3rd op. So one can never tell.
Yes, and I would do it again not a question, pain or not.
Axelle
Quote from: Valeriedances on October 28, 2011, 09:55:55 AM
I'm sorry dear, it happens for some of us. I went through a similar level of pain. Not fun at all. Then complications.
Then to be hear that SRS isnt important or necessary from some... well good for them. But in spite of the pain, I am glad I did it, thrilled even that I have a female body now, and imagine you are too. There was no price too high.
Hey girl thanks for the link as im new here. her last post was in june. its been 4 months so gee i wonder how shes doing now. i felt so bad for er, i hope shes doing really good. maybe u can find her on here for me, this sites kinda confusing lol. ttyl.
She logged in only a few days ago. I imagine she will see this, then decide if she wants to respond publicly.
Im so glad she got it all worked out. I hope shes doing well!
I've posted on here since June. :)
I had my revision on 6/15 and Dr Suporn said he was able to put the largest dilator in to 4" while I was under. I never did repeat that but for a while I was getting the small in to almost 5". Those days are long gone. The muscle is too tight so I only have 2.5-3" depth depending on which dilator I measure it with. Meanwhile the opening will accommodate 2 fingers but even that is tight. I can't get the largest dilator in far enough to do any good. :(
Quote from: Dàwkbua on October 28, 2011, 03:10:13 PM
I've posted on here since June. :)
I had my revision on 6/15 and Dr Suporn said he was able to put the largest dilator in to 4" while I was under. I never did repeat that but for a while I was getting the small in to almost 5". Those days are long gone. The muscle is too tight so I only have 2.5-3" depth depending on which dilator I measure it with. Meanwhile the opening will accommodate 2 fingers but even that is tight. I can't get the largest dilator in far enough to do any good. :(
Oh dawkbua im so sorry, i was expecting good news. i was so sad after reading your issue with width, i can feel your pain in your blogs. poor thing. you deserve a good result after all you been through. listen here! no need to cry over spilled milk. i know its hard but you have no choice, its time to pick yourself up and start looking into a colon graft with dr chetawutt when you have the money. thats what i would do.
i was wondering if you think penile inversion would have been a better result than the suporn non penile method? had you done penile inverson would it have been a worse result or a better one?
would you recommend suporn to me still?
well atleast you can orgasm and have a pretty vagina with depth right? you should focus on the good things till you can fix width thats all. ttyl. winter88
I won't be getting a colon graft.
Who can say how my results would have been with an inversion technique. Dr Suporn said it would have only given me half an inch of depth but I doubt that. Would I recommend him? I don't know. It's not his fault this happened.... my body scars easily.... still I sometimes wish I had gone with a different surgeon.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on October 28, 2011, 06:02:59 PM
I won't be getting a colon graft.
Who can say how my results would have been with an inversion technique. Dr Suporn said it would have only given me half an inch of depth but I doubt that. Would I recommend him? I don't know. It's not his fault this happened.... my body scars easily.... still I sometimes wish I had gone with a different surgeon.
Well you said you like girls so the depth shouldnt be an issue or do you like men too? do you plan on leaving it this way? maybe your okay with it? if your depressed i think you should still try and maybe get an answer from someone like meltzer or bowers, there has to be something that can be done, i mean your not the first one this has happend too.
just hang in there, things always work out it just takes time, you can orgasm and have a good aesthetic result atleast right?
hang in there!
is the vagina closing up actually a complication that can come up?
The dear woman had a corrective op - as she followed up in great, and painful detail.
I hope all will turn out better this time for her - all this pain involved. It puts perspective for some of us luckier women, I must say.
Why Dr. Suporn has some of these issues with some women? It worries me some right now.
Axelle
Quote from: Axélle on October 29, 2011, 07:03:38 AM
The dear woman had a corrective op - as she followed up in great, and painful detail.
I hope all will turn out better this time for her - all this pain involved. It puts perspective for some of us luckier women, I must say.
Why Dr. Suporn has some of these issues with some women? It worries me some right now.
Axelle
hey axelle i was wondering who did your srs and are you happy? im really thinking of postponing my srs with suporn after hearing poor dawkbua story, then again ive heard some bad things about bowers meltzer and brassard, guess theres not magical surgeon out there. this surgery really is a hit or miss kinda deal, ugh
Quote from: winter88 on October 29, 2011, 12:36:21 PM
hey axelle i was wondering who did your srs and are you happy? im really thinking of postponing my srs with suporn after hearing poor dawkbua story, then again ive heard some bad things about bowers meltzer and brassard, guess theres not magical surgeon out there. this surgery really is a hit or miss kinda deal, ugh
I had my SRS with Dr. Sanguan Kunaporn and I am happy, he did a good job and is as delicate with his hands like an 'angle'.
A very good doctor in my finding and Dinky_Di and some others might confirm that also.
The hospital PIH, is VERY top of the rack too.
Dr. Sanguan uses a different process to the others mentioned, it is a 2 step process.
The web site: http://www.phuket-plasticsurgery.com/contact_us.html (http://www.phuket-plasticsurgery.com/contact_us.html)
See what you think,
Axelle
Quote from: Melody Maia on February 16, 2011, 02:15:53 AM
She had the standard four from small to frighteningly large and then another set of two skinny ones.
She got the dilators from soul source:
http://www.soulsourceenterprises.com/html/products_grs.html (http://www.soulsourceenterprises.com/html/products_grs.html)
Apparently, she said they don't list them on the site. You should call them directly.
The two smaller ones are the P-1 (7/8") and the P-2 (1").
They are still not listed on the website.
The other four are the #1 to #4 (1-1/8", 1-1/4", 1-3/8", 1-1/2").
Quote from: Renate on October 30, 2011, 07:20:27 AM
The two smaller ones are the P-1 (7/8") and the P-2 (1").
They are still not listed on the website.
The other four are the #1 to #4 (1-1/8", 1-1/4", 1-3/8", 1-1/2").
I only had 3 dilators. I dont know the width of them but it pretty painful when stepping up
Hi all,
a point I was making earlier on. 1/8" dilator step-ups ARE painful - at least in the beginning.
I use a 1/16" step-up set provided by PIH and always need the 1" #1 as a 'door opener".
Even skipping it , starting with #2 17/16" or 1" and 1/16" is borderline difficult. So I ALWAYS go from #1 - #5 or #6 depending how easy things are - and THAT changes, even during the day.
Now imagine going up to 1 1/2" in 1/8" steps --- OUCH!... not for me, thank you.
So no wonder there are plenty of dilating moans by so many women here.
My 2 cents,
Axelle
They gave you a one and a half inch dilator? :o That's huge!
Quote from: winter88 on October 28, 2011, 07:05:03 PMWell you said you like girls so the depth shouldnt be an issue or do you like men too?
I'm bi/slightly straight. However I have a female partner who is monogamous so I won't be having sex with any men. :( It's just as well; I'm too tight to accommodate a penis anyway.
Quotedo you plan on leaving it this way? maybe your okay with it?
I do. I'm not thrilled about it but it's the way it is and I don't have any viable alternatives (a colon graft would be too much to go through - not worth it to me).
Quoteyou can orgasm and have a good aesthetic result atleast right?
Yes.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on October 31, 2011, 10:18:56 AM
They gave you a one and a half inch dilator? :o That's huge!
I'm on a 1.5 inch dilator right now! It's really nice, but I now have to find the next size up! ;)
Hiya, I posted as "999" a while back ago but I think my account was deleted to inactivity. I wanted to update that I still have not been able to retain depth or width, and I can't get much more than a q-tip in there (yeah I know). Thanks for the people who wanted to get an update and I am coping with it, as in its not the on my mind that much but I am going to probably get colon segment surgery at some point or hold out for some revolutionary grafting. I would also like to say a few things that I feel is important;
To the people who say "relax and dilate, dilate, dilate" and "it's your own fault if it closes up".
This really offends me on a personal level when I hear this, anyone who has SRS knows that dilation is important (particularly Suporn) and that they simply must do it. I can't explain how frustrating it is to have people tell you to do something that you simply cannot do, or are doing and it isn't helping, and then blaming you for the results. I don't know exactly what combination of factors afflicted me (and other girls) but I sure as hell can testify that it did not come from a lack of effort on my part, I actually paid an emergency clinic out of pocket to get a Vicodin prescription in desperation to dilate harder and longer to no avail. My contractions could be felt in my sleep and there would be times where I would dilate for 2-3 or hours while watching movies just to see if I got better results. It just didn't work, and I really hope that the blame stops falling on few girls who have these results. Suporn's clinic gave me the same line as they give others, and I think they intentionally instill the attitude of "the only people who lose depth are those too lazy/afraid of pain to dilate" to everyone to prevent the failure cases from reflecting poorly on them when someone speaks out. I have heard that its worse with younger girls than older, which I suspect is due to the body's healing abilities trying to close that whole area up. When that paired with other factors (granulation, other complications) that cause even *more* pain, discomfort or downright functional abilities this type of thing, however rare it may seem, happen. Further, just how much torture (it was truly was) can you insist a person inflict upon themselves before considering it unreasonable? To dilation apologists, no it is not a matter of relaxing or perspective, in the worst of cases it is pain that cannot be tolerated by a reasonable person without causing psychological harm (as I said I was having panic attacks because of it). In fact I think that there needs to be a major overhaul in SRS techniques because quite frankly, dilation is RIDICULOUS.
My next point;
Dilation is the elephant in the SRS room that everyone downplays or pretends is not important until after you drink the punch and *have* to make it apart of your existence. I found very little serious information on dilation in preparing all those years for surgery, even when talking to post-op people directly about it. What information was out there focused on dilation as it applies immediately post-op (6 months to a year). I have met plenty of well informed girls getting close to surgery who were shocked to find out that you can *never* stop dilating as a rule no matter who and what surgery you get.
Yes, as it stands you simply have no choice for keeping your vaginal canal in working condition, and yes you can in some cases eventually do it less frequently (particularly with colon vaginoplasty) but you still have to do it *forever*. I think all people considering SRS should know this as one of the first things they should prepare for. I know I may have done a little more shopping around to make sure if I had issue dilating I could count on my surgeon to correct it quickly if I had been aware of how absolutely critical it is to your recovery to have it work out *completely on your own*.
Good luck to all girls who had or are having SRS, and please do your homework about dilation, make sure you will be able to manage it on your own if need be and that your lifestyle has room for it. Ask about it in-depth with your surgeon and make sure they can help you with pain and complications if need be. I really hope that scientific advancements make some leaps and bounds in this area so that can get real tissue grafts that don't require a more annoying and invasive transsexual version of an insulin shot.
Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on October 31, 2011, 09:45:34 AM
Hi all,
a point I was making earlier on. 1/8" dilator step-ups ARE painful - at least in the beginning.
I use a 1/16" step-up set provided by PIH and always need the 1" #1 as a 'door opener".
Even skipping it , starting with #2 17/16" or 1" and 1/16" is borderline difficult. So I ALWAYS go from #1 - #5 or #6 depending how easy things are - and THAT changes, even during the day.
Now imagine going up to 1 1/2" in 1/8" steps --- OUCH!... not for me, thank you.
So no wonder there are plenty of dilating moans by so many women here.
My 2 cents,
Axelle
To report some change in this department.
I'm now starting with # 4 (30mm) ~1 3/16" mostly for depth which is still limited to about 4 1/2", and then I skip to # 6 (34mm) ~ 1 3/8".
Finally going to a vibrator with 'glans-size' 40mm ~ 1 1/2" and shaft size 45mm ~ 1 3/4".
I have not found any dilators that come in this size other the vibrators.
The item is veined quite a bit and it sure give this vj some work-out.
It is pretty firm latex, I should say it aught to take care even of the bigger sized males -
if ever it be needed :-)
1 3/4" IS BIG... and I have not come across much bigger unless we talking about a donkey :-)
Axélle