Ohkay so who finds it hard to tell a man your trans? Me personally if trust a guy i'l tell him..sometimes i find it difficult though..
Yeah, a little tougher- like with telling a girl, I feel more comfortable, not quite "girl talk" but more along those lines, just mire comfortable talking about girl things with a girl as a girl, u guess us the way to put it
but with a guy..even telling them you like men, it's like breaking the man code or something haha
at first anyways, it gets easier with the more people I tell
Quote from: Daszuber on August 31, 2010, 11:48:58 PM
Yeah, a little tougher- like with telling a girl, I feel more comfortable, not quite "girl talk" but more along those lines, just mire comfortable talking about girl things with a girl as a girl, u guess us the way to put it
but with a guy..even telling them you like men, it's like breaking the man code or something haha
at first anyways, it gets easier with the more people I tell
Yeah I always felt more comfortable telling a female but its tough telling a dude ~___~
Especially since half of the interaction guys do with each other is about how manly they are, and they like to mess with the most effeminate in the group.
Maybe I'm a bit jaded, lol
Quote from: Ariix on August 31, 2010, 11:31:30 PM
Ohkay so who finds it hard to tell a man your trans? Me personally if trust a guy i'l tell him..sometimes i find it difficult though..
Yeah it can be hard. I've come to a point where I have it in my profile but it's buried amongst lots of other things....it's like just antoher detail.
If I'm talking to a guy and the subject of my ex or my parents or something comes up then I just out with it but otherwise I see no need to bring it up until we switch to another medium (such as IM or phone or text) because once they see my last name, they can google me easily enough to find out and I'd rather be the one who tells them.
Quote from: Ariix on August 31, 2010, 11:31:30 PM
Ohkay so who finds it hard to tell a man your trans? Me personally if trust a guy i'l tell him..sometimes i find it difficult though..
heh i told everyone, my friend chris (a guy) said "Yeah, that explains a lot... when you did... and all those times you... yeah, you would be!". It all depends on how good a friend, my guy friends (all of them) totally treat me like i have always been a girl, even doing stuff like hugs when we meet and escorting me to my car, opening doors... Never had any problems with them.. I think being comfortable with yourself is key to people being comfortable around you.
I dont tell anyone new (friends) that i am TS. They dont need to know and my old friends keep it a secret. I did get busted once, my sams club card had my old picture on it and I had to renew, the guy at the counter looked at it and said "this person has to come in and not you", i said thats me... "No way" I showed my ID to him and he said "i would never have known, you look hot...heh" and continued doing his job.
So depends on the guy i think. In certain environments its safe in others its not.
Quote from: Izumi on September 01, 2010, 12:02:56 PM
heh i told everyone, my friend chris (a guy) said "Yeah, that explains a lot... when you did... and all those times you... yeah, you would be!". It all depends on how good a friend, my guy friends (all of them) totally treat me like i have always been a girl, even doing stuff like hugs when we meet and escorting me to my car, opening doors... Never had any problems with them.. I think being comfortable with yourself is key to people being comfortable around you.
I dont tell anyone new (friends) that i am TS. They dont need to know and my old friends keep it a secret. I did get busted once, my sams club card had my old picture on it and I had to renew, the guy at the counter looked at it and said "this person has to come in and not you", i said thats me... "No way" I showed my ID to him and he said "i would never have known, you look hot...heh" and continued doing his job.
So depends on the guy i think. In certain environments its safe in others its not.
lol, +1 to that guy at Sams :)
And yes, self confidence goes a long, long way, for sure!
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on September 01, 2010, 12:19:34 AM
Especially since half of the interaction guys do with each other is about how manly they are, and they like to mess with the most effeminate in the group.
Please, we are not all that bad. But from what I understand it seems that girls in general are indeed more accepting on the subject than men.
Quote from: Octavianus on September 01, 2010, 06:03:29 PM
Please, we are not all that bad. But from what I understand it seems that girls in general are indeed more accepting on the subject than men.
Maybe I just grew up around the wrong crowd. My peers were pretty viscious.
just my thoughts as ftm (since it seems like mostly girls in here :P)
the thing about women, in my observations, is that they're all comrades with each other, like they (usually) will stick up for any of their fellow women, just cos they're females. (especially if they get burned by a guy. maybe i'm watching too many chick flicks but it seems like women have no problems with seeing all men as the enemy.) so it seems like a woman finding out you're a woman would just make her like you more since they tend to stick together. might have something to do with biology that women tend to feel Connected to one another, just speculating on the evidence that when women live together/spend a lot of time together their periods start to sync. (< not really relevant) but this also seems to mean (again just from my own experiences/speculation) that when you're ftm they kind of see it as an attack on their gender, like you're leaving them behind or something. women want you to be more like them!* good for you girls, makes it more difficult for us though.
*in general people do tend to gravitate toward people that are more like them because of evolution and the community=survival thing that popped up a few thousand years ago. again not really relevant but i like thinking about why things happen.
guys tend to be more chill about stuff. i mean the douchebags & homophobes (not saying that being TG is the same as being homosexual, but a lot of people think of it that way just because of misinformation/misconceptions) might make a big deal out of things like ->-bleeped-<- and be bigoted but there are bigoted women too, they're just prettier so it's easier for them to hide it. but guys (at least the ones i know) are pretty much ok with letting people do whatever they want as long as it doesn't mess with them.
don't know if that actually had anything to do with the topic, i tend to just go off on tangents...
why u need to tell people everything? there something better not knowing.
be a spy, a james bond, ur identity was secret.
Quote from: Matt Chase on September 02, 2010, 09:54:06 AM
just my thoughts as ftm (since it seems like mostly girls in here :P)
the thing about women, in my observations, is that they're all comrades with each other, like they (usually) will stick up for any of their fellow women, just cos they're females. (especially if they get burned by a guy. maybe i'm watching too many chick flicks but it seems like women have no problems with seeing all men as the enemy.) so it seems like a woman finding out you're a woman would just make her like you more since they tend to stick together. might have something to do with biology that women tend to feel Connected to one another, just speculating on the evidence that when women live together/spend a lot of time together their periods start to sync. (< not really relevant) but this also seems to mean (again just from my own experiences/speculation) that when you're ftm they kind of see it as an attack on their gender, like you're leaving them behind or something. women want you to be more like them!* good for you girls, makes it more difficult for us though.
*in general people do tend to gravitate toward people that are more like them because of evolution and the community=survival thing that popped up a few thousand years ago. again not really relevant but i like thinking about why things happen.
guys tend to be more chill about stuff. i mean the douchebags & homophobes (not saying that being TG is the same as being homosexual, but a lot of people think of it that way just because of misinformation/misconceptions) might make a big deal out of things like ->-bleeped-<- and be bigoted but there are bigoted women too, they're just prettier so it's easier for them to hide it. but guys (at least the ones i know) are pretty much ok with letting people do whatever they want as long as it doesn't mess with them.
don't know if that actually had anything to do with the topic, i tend to just go off on tangents...
Heh, women seeing all other women as comrades... laugh. So wrong on that. Women just express themselves a little different then men. Men speak what is on their minds more and let their actions do the talking, however, women are much more subtle and have a large of web of intrigue. Women communicate more by talking so it might seem like women talking to each other are friendly toward each other, however this is not always the case, a lot of times a woman might have totally opposite feelings then what she lets on and only ACTS polite but really is working in the background to undermine the other person, but in a more subtle fashion, a rumor here and there... Women are masters of manipulation and interpreting social situations. All in all, even our friends a lot of the time we enjoy their company, but they are also competition. Women are often jealous of one thing or another and while a friendship is good on the outside one person or both can harbor resentment but keep it inside. Like on the surface two friends meeting up might compliment each other on how they look but keep their real feelings hidden.
The social pressures on women are far greater then on men, so they are far more competitive then you think, its just that men dont clue into the game being played because its not a physical one. Its a world filled with social nuances and cliques that really only someone living in it can understand. Thats not to say you really dont have friends, you do, but all is not as it appears in the world of women.
Dear Izumi, now you write about it I think you are right about this. I used to take long hiking trips through the mountains with a female friend. When you are that long alone together you start to open up to each other and talk about various deeper subjects. She told me she loved these trips because it allowed her to just be herself without having the need to be ever watchful to what other women say and more important think about her. These conversations opened up a whole new world previous unknown to me and gave me a picture which is pretty much the same as you just described above.
But somehow to us men you seem to be the more friendly, more fair gender. Maybe we sometimes just don't notice this hidden world because we are often a bit too direct with our feelings and emotions while women are much more subtle.
Quote from: Octavianus on September 02, 2010, 01:54:07 PM
But somehow to us men you seem to be the more friendly, more fair gender.
Thats what we want you to think. Wa ha ha ha ha ha. Let me give an example of typical female interaction between 2 friends:
Friend A and Friend B meet. Friend B has bought a new skirt, and has purposely showing it off. Friend A is jealous of friend B's look and her legs. Friend A says "Thats a nice skirt, where did you get it?", Friend B says "Oh this old thing.....". To the outside world a nice conversation between two friends shared over a cup of coffee and laughing....
What are they really thinking:
Friend A, "That bitch, she knew what i was wearing ahead of time and purposely one upped me...."
Friend B, "Heh, I look better then her :P, that will teach her to flaunt her boobs at my party last week...."
In reality you never know what women are really thinking, other women can guess the meaning behind the words but then again we all play the game with each other. We are still have friends, but at the same time we are naturally competitive of each other, while men beat each other up to see who is better, women take a much more subtle approach.
Quote from: Izumi on September 02, 2010, 02:20:36 PM
Thats what we want you to think. Wa ha ha ha ha ha. Let me give an example of typical female interaction between 2 friends:
Friend A and Friend B meet. Friend B has bought a new skirt, and has purposely showing it off. Friend A is jealous of friend B's look and her legs. Friend A says "Thats a nice skirt, where did you get it?", Friend B says "Oh this old thing.....". To the outside world a nice conversation between two friends shared over a cup of coffee and laughing....
What are they really thinking:
Friend A, "That bitch, she knew what i was wearing ahead of time and purposely one upped me...."
Friend B, "Heh, I look better then her :P, that will teach her to flaunt her boobs at my party last week...."
In reality you never know what women are really thinking, other women can guess the meaning behind the words but then again we all play the game with each other. We are still have friends, but at the same time we are naturally competitive of each other, while men beat each other up to see who is better, women take a much more subtle approach.
Hahaha thats sooo true! thats why i hang with guys and not females ;)
For me it depends on the guy. If he's a friend I really don't like to share that detail with them, however I always find myself getting so worried over whether or not they can already tell that I usually end up telling them anyway. If the guy is someone I just met then I am not at all comfortable telling them that I'm trans because at that point I have no idea how they might react. The reaction could range from "meh, not a big deal" to "eww, get away from me, ->-bleeped-<-!". If it's a guy I'm interested in on the other hand, I have no problem telling them at all. My feelings about outing myself seem to disappear when I'm doing it for the sake of someone I care about.
Quote from: Ariix on September 02, 2010, 02:44:10 PM
Hahaha thats sooo true! thats why i hang with guys and not females ;)
yeah its much better to hang out with people that dont look you in the face when they talk to you, and fantasize about all the different ways they would like to do you...
Asked a guy friend about it once, he gave me an honest answer,
Me: what would you have done if you just met me and we didnt know each other before hand.
Him: "If i didnt know you before, i would hit THAT like the fist of angry god!"
Me: Your thinking about that right now aren't you?
Him: "Yeah, you and 3 other girls i saw this morning, it was easier when you didnt have titts...."
Quote from: Izumi on September 02, 2010, 03:26:55 PM
yeah its much better to hang out with people that dont look you in the face when they talk to you, and fantasize about all the different ways they would like to do you...
Asked a guy friend about it once, he gave me an honest answer,
Me: what would you have done if you just met me and we didnt know each other before hand.
Him: "If i didnt know you before, i would hit THAT like the fist of angry god!"
Me: Your thinking about that right now aren't you?
Him: "Yeah, you and 3 other girls i saw this morning, it was easier when you didnt have titts...."
Wow, he's so respectful. Just one of those sad but true things I guess...
I do not look forward to coming out to any (natal) men. Especially the ones I know now. I can just see the big "EWWW!" face they'll probably make, followed by some ignorant derrogatory remark about being gay. I know some guys aren't like that, but my experience is: I havn't met one guy that has openly said he's fine with transsexuals. We have all been some sort of joke.
And the quote I put kinda displays how sex is the leading thought for many men when females are involved in any way.
Izumi, that is pretty sad.I asked my boyfriend Mike, if he didnt know me from before, and came out again transgender, would he still love me? He said he wasnt sure.I dont know if I should see that as positive or negative ?
Quote from: Angela Venetos on September 02, 2010, 03:56:16 PM
Izumi, that is pretty sad.I asked my boyfriend Mike, if he didnt know me from before, and came out again transgender, would he still love me? He said he wasnt sure.I dont know if I should see that as positive or negative ?
My friend not my BF/Fiance said that, we are long time friends.. who said anything about love... lol he just would sleep with me, but he was honest about it and we can speak frankly since we go way back. Obviously, since we know each other, its hard to think about sleeping with me now, and we both know that.
Dont take it as a negative, if you tell anyone the day you meet them before they know you if they would love you if you told them you were TS, i would say everyone that wasnt an admirer would go NO, sorry. I have to admit, even I, in my past would have said, what! no! cya. However... if i had dated a woman, gotten to know her and fall in love with her, then if she came out to me, i would have a much harder time saying no, i would honestly think about it a long time. Most of my friends think the same way, but they are not scumbags, and are decent human beings. So dont be mad at your BF he is being honest.
Luckily i found a guy that loves me and sees me only as a woman, even after i told him 2 months into our relationship. A guy i will be spending the rest of my life with.
I hope the same for you.
Thank you Izumi.I have to admit that in the past,I would probably say cya as well.Its still amazes me how very little is left of my past personality, how about you ?Do you still enjoy any hobbies you had as a man? For me, its the same taste in movies and music.But thats pretty much it.
Quote from: Octavianus on September 02, 2010, 01:54:07 PM
Maybe we sometimes just don't notice this hidden world because we are often a bit too direct with our feelings and emotions while women are much more subtle.
i've always noticed women being more openly emotional, although i have also noticed what you are saying about them being fake with other people, that bothers me...
but i was just saying that women seem take the "side" of another woman more readily than that of a man.
Quote from: Angela Venetos on September 02, 2010, 03:56:16 PM
Izumi, that is pretty sad.I asked my boyfriend Mike, if he didnt know me from before, and came out again transgender, would he still love me? He said he wasnt sure.I dont know if I should see that as positive or negative ?
Dear Angela, don't be angry with your boyfriend for telling you this. Like Izumi wrote he is honest about this and that is a good thing. It is a subject that bothers me also.
I wondered if I would still fall in love with my girlfriend if I knew of her past from the first day we met. It is a question I cannot answer with a simple yes or no. This is because there is always the risk that I would not see the actual personality through the indoctrinated stereotype. In the end I think there is a large chance that I am level headed enough to look past this.
The way I read it I think you should regard it as very positive because he basically says you that your personality is more important to him than your body or past.
Quote from: Matt Chase on September 02, 2010, 05:01:39 PM
i have also noticed what you are saying about them being fake with other people, that bothers me...
Did I write that? I am sorry if I appear that way, I never meant to generalize. But I think it is true that some women rather tell a comforting lie than the harsh thruthut. This also apply to men so it is kind of a non-issue.
Quote from: Izumi on September 02, 2010, 03:26:55 PM
yeah its much better to hang out with people that dont look you in the face when they talk to you, and fantasize about all the different ways they would like to do you...
You can't lump us all together, Izumi. Not all guys fantasize of different ways of doing girls but I do admit that the majority of us seem to do so. I clearly remember living (on a work related base) with a girl who just couldn't stop staring at the point where my legs join my body when I stood before her in my pajama's. "So that is how women must feel" I thought by myself.
Quote from: Angela Venetos on September 02, 2010, 04:33:27 PM
Thank you Izumi.I have to admit that in the past,I would probably say cya as well.Its still amazes me how very little is left of my past personality, how about you ?Do you still enjoy any hobbies you had as a man? For me, its the same taste in movies and music.But thats pretty much it.
Heh, i mellowed out a bit, but i still do activities considered... manly. Like playing airsoft. My interests in video games, comics, and all that nerdy stuff stuck around, but i also mix it with new activities that are more active like surfing, running, working out. If you were to meet me and never knew me you would think me pretty regular person, but i am pretty geeky at times, but only around geeky friends, they bring it out of me. The only difference is all the things that made me a chick repellent as a guy, is now a guy SUPER MAGNET. Since i do guy stuff people ask me out at the events from time to time and just about everyone wants to be my friend. I am not the only woman mind you at the events but i seem to attract certain types... eh. I am happy with my guy, no need for a replacement.
The only real thing is that i stopped playing mmos, i think it was because i always played female characters so i could live like one at least virtually but now that i can IRL, its just boring ^_^.
Quote from: Octavianus on September 02, 2010, 05:47:37 PM
You can't lump us all together, Izumi. Not all guys fantasize of different ways of doing girls but I do admit that the majority of us seem to do so. I clearly remember living (on a work related base) with a girl who just couldn't stop staring at the point where my legs join my body when I stood before her in my pajama's. "So that is how women must feel" I thought by myself.
Not every guy ^_^ i am talking statistically, you know the bell curve. You will always have people on the sides that dont, but a lot of guys do think that way. I think to the point where really a woman cant have "Friends" that are men. I known a lot of guys that stick around girls for the chance that she will leave whos shes with to be with them. The only friends I have who are guys are the ones that knew me pre-transition, married, getting married, already have a girlfriend, or gay. I have found any other guy wanting a relationship with me as a "Friend" inevitably asks me out at one point or another. I choose not to have guy friends past these types because i know i wouldnt my fiance to have single available female friends that he goes to see (while i am not there) so i follow the same example for myself. He knows i will never cheat on him because i dont put myself in a position where that would be possible.
Also i know women look at men the same way sometimes. Some women even one up men, they dont even look at the guy, they look at his wallet..... that in a way is a lot more superficial.
Had 2 guys today chat it up with me and everything's great but then when they found out, they didn't want anything to do with me anymore.
One just wanted to be friends. (he was ready to ask me on a date before)
The other said he wanted kids someday.....
bleh. I hate dating sometimes. =(
Into videogames Izumi eh? I didnt mention it , because I mostly play them in the winter.
Quote from: Izumi on September 02, 2010, 06:21:07 PMI think to the point where really a woman cant have "Friends" that are men.
Funny that you say this because it is also what I hear form friends both male and female.
I can't speak for everyone but as a toddler I met a girl who I spend my entire youth with untill college. We did everything together, playing at each other house when it rained, playing outside on good days. Going to the beach together, making trips and we even had a lot of sleepovers. Later on we studied together. Nothing romantically ever happened between us, we just enjoyed each other's company as a friend. We split when I had to move to another country for my education. When I returned I discovered that her parents divorced and she moved with her mother. Till this day I haven't been able to trace her whereabouts. I would love to get back in touch with her to see how she is doing. :(
Believe me, it is possible for a man and woman to be just good friends.
Jerica, keep your head up.You will find someone special as you.
Hi Jerica, I am sorry to hear about your bad dating experiences of today.
As unreasonable as they may be, every man is entiteled to his own opinion. Also on this subject. It does hurt, but I hope you can find comfort in the thought that these men were probably not right for you and don't deserve you.
From a guy's input... I also find it harder and more intimidating to tell other guys I'm trans. When I moved to a new city I had already been on hormones for a while so everyone I met from there on only knew me as a man. I don't know if it's just the guys that I know, but I feel intimidated telling them from a trans standpoint. Maybe it's because I fear they won't see me as "one of the guys" anymore.
On the other hand, the women I have told since I moved were all very accepting and just see me as a normal gay guy. Then again I think it can vary from person to person as to how they will react, but overall I definitely hesitate before coming out to cis-males.
As a pre-transition ftm, I find it easier to tell guys. In fact, the only woman I've told was my mother. But this is because about 90% of my friends are guys, and I'm more comfortable around guys, in general.
In fact, I'm kind of intimidated by the idea of telling a girl. I know I could if I had to, and it probably wouldn't be a big deal with the few girls I'm friends with. But I'd be nervous about how they'd initially react. I don't understand girls very well (as the first page of this thread reminded me); I'm not very good at predicting how they'll react to things. With guys, coming out is less nerve-wracking because I usually have an idea of how they'll react before I say anything, and I'm better at phrasing it so they'll understand. I'm just not as good at communicating with girls.
The most difficult (and scary) I can think of is telling a guy who is interested in me and doesn't know I'm trans... Sometimes the reaction can be rather scary (angry) but more often they're face kinda drops and they just say "oh..." and then you never hear from them again :-\
The guys who are just friends are a little taken aback sometimes but more often suspected already
Maybe someday I'll be able to tell a happily ever after story
Thanks Octavianus and Angela.
I have come across guys that saw me as a woman and were understanding and all that so I know there is hope.
Sure everyone is entitled to their own preferences but when it comes to liking everything about me except something that was not my fault (and is in the past, esp after surgery) , I just can't understand.
Being FtM, I find it rather difficult to tell guys that I'm trans. Most of the time, I'm read as a guy, but when I'm not, and the wrong pronouns come out, I either ignore it, or simply correct them by saying, "He..." If it gets out of hand, and I just can't take it anymore, I tell them in the simplest way possible. They've all seemed okay with it, and have been accepting.