Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This poll refers more about individuals who, after a period of time and constant reminders, still don't use the correct pronouns. I can understand that family or people who have known you a long, long time might have a harder time breaking the habit. I'm more interested in theories about people who haven't known you as long- like friends and co-workers.

I know each person and their reason is different, I'm referring more to the overall main theory for people in your life. My main theory- especially with co-workers- is they're lazy, don't bother and don't care. God forbid they actually have to think and change. ::)

Jeez, all of the above! I've experienced every option on that poll. It really depends, you know? For my parents, it's just them getting used to it. People at college that haven't known me long, it's every other option. Some friends I have sometimes just forget, or slip up now and then. Why they do that, I dunno, but they always apologize and correct themselves. So I guess that could be the getting used to it option.

Yeah, we all probably have people who would be in one of those choices. I'm thinking more about people who haven't known you really long, like a few years max. I can't understand why those people become so crippled over the pronoun thing.

After using the same pronoun for years and years in referring to a person it could be really hard to change that happen since people use pronouns without really thinking because of how ingrained it is in the language.  And if the person they're talking about just barely passes or doesn't pass than it's understandable for them to keep using the wrong pronoun because of visual queues. 

I think it generally is what I just wrote, though it can be any combination of the list you posted (which is why I put "other").

Well, I think it depends on the situation.
My sister I think doesn't take it seriously.
My mother slips up out of force of habit.

Personally I think different people do it for different reasons.

I suspect that vocal cues also play a part for some people. I have observed that those of us fortunate enough to have had voices which naturally fell in the range of our target gender seemed to encounter markedly less difficulty in this regard.

Quote from: rejennyrated on October 12, 2010, 02:36:11 PMI suspect that vocal cues also play a part for some people. I have observed that those of us fortunate enough to have had voices which naturally fell in the range of our target gender seemed to encounter markedly less difficulty in this regard.

I wish this was my case. If I'm heard over the phone I'm almost always assumed as male (I'm on T). People meet me in person and they see me as male. But any employees that knew me before transition just can not (or will not) seem to use male pronouns.

This is what bothers me most. When people are around newer employees (who know me as male) they always refer to me as male. But when employees who knew me before transition get together they use female pronouns.

This shows they know what they're doing and watch what they say around newer employees. Why can't they do this all the time? If they paid attention to what they're saying all the time it would stick faster until it became second nature. This is why I say laziness. They don't want to think about it every time and do it when they feel like it.

It really depends.  For the most part people around me tend to go out of their way to NOT use pronouns.  Everyone that knows me at all calls me Paul.  (no that is not a chant.)  However I rarely hear a 'he' or 'him' from people who knew me as female before.   

They dance around it as much as possible.  It's almost quite interesting to watch since I know exactly what they are doing.  That's okay at least they are trying.  I'd like to believe everyone will get there in time.  Those who still talk to me that is.

Then again my cousin recently stopped by to see me.  Then since she is religious she prayed for me.  When she did she used nothing but female pronouns.  I didn't correct her because I don't God cares about gender.  However looking back I wish I had.   As it was clear that is still how she looks at me. When she addressed me directly she didn't use my name or any sort of pronouns at all.

It depends on who it is, but in my case I'd say the majority is hard to break out of habit.  I do have a sister I dont' see, and she would be one who would do it deliberately to piss me off.  (which is why I no longer see her...she's plain miserable).


Jay

The one friend I've had issues with.. todl me she was weirded out. She kinda goes with the flow though.. if people are reffering to me as male.. she does that and my male name.. and if people are talking to me as female *gasp* she goes as female. *grar!

However when I'm not and her husband isn't around (who isn't in the know yet) she's been reffering to me as Uncle Terry to her kids. her oldest is 4.. or 5 now.. so hopefully they are still pretty flexible.

I voted habit.  Especially for family members and close friends.  I think part of it, though, is that some people just don't care.  They usually don't understand and it doesn't affect them, so why bother trying?  Could be out of spite as well.  Just depends.

Can the poll be mutiple choicse?

I get a pretty even mix of "damn lazy" and "old habits die hard"

Quote from: insanitylives on October 12, 2010, 05:08:17 PMI get a pretty even mix of "damn lazy" and "old habits die hard"

You know, in a way they're almost the same. Someone is too lazy to try and break an old habit- no matter how much it hurts another.

For me, so far, there is only one person I'm having trouble with. He's a gentleman (overall) but a bit of a womanizer and we've been intimate, so he all but refuses to take it seriously and calls me 'mentally male'. Which is true, as far as it goes, but still calls me 'babe' and 'girl' and the like in every conversation.

I'm in an interesting situation,  which may be interesting for discussion purposes.

I'm being lasered at the moment and came out to the nurse (which she is) as TG.  I have to present in boy clothes but we talk about gender a lot. "I'm a brave guy for putting up with the pain," was a sort of first session comment, "lots of women would not have taken that." Second session, I mentioned I'd been to a girls night out and some where interested in how I proceed. " Oh any of your friends are more that welcome, and I'm happy to help them out." Inspecting my face as flames froth from my lip  ::). ' You do realise you are more pain tolerant than most of the other women I treat?"  Tears are streaming from under the goggles.
Third treatment, the sides of the face. " I know your boy name is X,  what name would you like to be called by in the room?
If you have TG friends who want treatment I'm willing to increase my hours.

She said all of it with respect.

There are nice people.
My face? A flayed tomato.

Cindy

It's laziness with my family, for the first couple of weeks everyone was great, they would correct themselves and apologise if they used the wrong one. Then once my coming out was "old news" it was like it didn't matter any more and none of them use my new name or the right pronouns even a little bit.

I think it can be all of the above, but for people who are supportive it is mainly habit.  I have a close friend who is a linguist.  He says that pronouns are embedded more deeply in the brain than names, so it takes more effort and use to be able to change them.  And usage is almost automatic, so the speaker isn't paying attention to which he or she is using.  (I have also caught him once or twice slipping up even though he is one of my biggest supporters.)  Unless they have some agenda they are working out (like, don't do this), it just takes time and usage to be able to change.

(BTW I'm sorry that my mother died before I could tell her why I was always so screwed up.  Still, I believe that were she alive she would understand me being Kate completely but still call use the wrong pronouns at least half the time.  She often called me by my brother's name even though she knew I wasn't him.)

- Kate

"Other" being denial/can't/won't accept it and habit.  Obviously you have people who can't believe it, and then you have the people who need the time to adjust to it..  Then again... a MTF friend of mine still uses her male name... which is confusing to me (and her GF).

I think most of it comes from a lack of understanding.  People have no idea what it's like to be TG.  They have no idea how hurtful it is to use the wrong pronouns.  Pronouns probably seem insignificant to them, so they assume it's the same for other people.

Also, a lot of people seem to think that being TG is a choice.  And as a result, some get jealous.  Has anyone else witnessed reactions along the lines of, "You lucky one - getting to change something about yourself when I can't change the things I don't like about myself!" ?  That seems to me to be a surprisingly common response, though people tend not to talk very openly about it.  Anyway, using incorrect pronouns could be a way of expressing that jealousy.  They're angry that they can't make the changes they'd like to make in themselves so they're not going to recognize the changes you've succeeded in making.

But a lot of misunderstanding is innocent and not coupled with negative emotions like jealousy.  Some people simply have a hard time adjusting to new concepts, no matter how well you explain everything to them.  They're not being intentionally hurtful or ignorant; they're just not so gifted at adapting to any kind of change.

Quote from: Alexmakenoise on October 14, 2010, 01:27:50 PMHas anyone else witnessed reactions along the lines of, "You lucky one - getting to change something about yourself when I can't change the things I don't like about myself!"?

Actually, I haven't heard this once or anything close to it. Do you get this response alot?

I've never gotten the "you're lucky" response either. Closest I've gotten is along the lines of "lots of people don't like their bodies, I wish I was thinner/taller/blah"

I think for me it's that they just don't want to. Whenever I correct people i know they'll say "well your not a guy so Im not gonna call you one, your stupid your not a guy your a girl". All attempt of explaining go out the window. The thing is is that i pass 110% of the time in public, ive never been she'd by someone i dont know.
My Aunt says im too young to know who i am and how i feel so she wont call me he. ill be 18 in 8months, ive been out for 7 yrs i think i know who i am and im on T.
My mom has flat out said she doesnt give a crap shes gonna call me what she want regardless of how hurtful it is.

Quote from: mcalistershaun on October 16, 2010, 09:13:19 AM
My mom has flat out said she doesnt give a crap shes gonna call me what she want regardless of how hurtful it is.

That's the one that bites the most.  It's far easier to cut out friends and acquaintances who are disrespectful.  Family being disrespectful hurts that much more, and the relationships harder to dismiss.  Hang in there.


Jay