We are the T in LGBTetc, but are we really?
Obviously, we have benefitted from the Gay Rights movement, legally. But do we really benefit from the association, as a whole?
Our worst problem, as a group, is that too many people view as breaking a substantial sexual taboo. When we partner with gays, are we not feeding that wrong perception, that we are is about sexual preference?
Might we not be better served to break from Gays, and educate people that we change genders because of something intrinsic to us, that has little if anything to do with who we want to have sex with?
Because I am a woman attracted to women, I consider myself a lesbian. But there are plenty of people, lesbians amongst them, who don't consider me lesbian. I actually had friends who asked me if, now that I am living with a woman, am I "going to change back?".
Actually, when I was a solo act, I had a certain set of problems. Now that I am a member of a couple, I have a whole different set of problems. Our pastor explained it to us this way. "When you are by yourself, your sexuality is an abstract concept to most people, and it is only irritating to them at a certain level. But when you are out as a couple, now it's concrete. People who don't approve, they feel like you are confronting them, shoving your sexuality in their faces."
So, this leaves me wondering. Others in our community, how gay do you feel? Do you feel an affinity with gay people, community, fraternity...? Or not so much?
Do you feel that gay people accept you, embrace you, support you...? Or not so much?
Personally, I feel like the unwanted step-sister at the Gay Cinderella Ball. I get the feeling that gay people like/accept/support me LESS than the average straight person. I'd estimate that a gay person is three times more likely to make a rude remark to me, than a straight person. The straight person (or cisgender/cissexual) is probably more likely to be thinking rude thoughts, but the gay person more likely to say something rude. I get the sense that most gay people feel we hold back their progress by being too different, that we make them uncomfortable, and that we hurt their image/reputation, by being so public with our differentness, while they confine theirs to the privacy of home and gay establishments.
I also get "you're not a woman" (explicitly and implicitly) more from lesbians. I think it's kind of an internal logic. I am sexually attracted to women. I am not sexually attracted to you. You must be not a woman.
The other way to look it, for me, is to say: We are not straight, so we are gay. Kinda defining gayness as the absence of straightness.
I think that, for us to make progress, we are eventually going to have to split from the Gay-Rights Movement. Is that time upon us?
Well, I'm straight. By that I mean, I like girls. A lot. I've noticed that straight people seem to be more accepting to me than gay people. Of course, that isn't everybody. But lesbians seem to not like me because I'm a boy and gay guys seem to not like me cuz I'm a "girl." So either way I'm kinda screwed. It's complicated, I dunno.
im not gay. i love boobs. i love girl. they so preety and i think lesbian is hot..lol
Gina. I have to say that if the universe was nice and tidy and full of black and white yes/no answers you might have a point. As it is in the shades of grey which comprise the real world things are never so simple, because such a divorce could never be clean.
There are many of us who blur the nice boundaries that you wish to establish. Alison and I for example are bisexual, we are also in a relationship which, depending on whether you accept the validity of GRS or not is either Lesbian or Gay. So in a real sense we belong to all of the groups.
Quotewe change genders because of something intrinsic to us
and I can assure you that Gays and Lesbians ARE NOT so by a choice. They are equally that way because of something intrinsic to them. In fact the scientific evidence in favour of physical causes for sexual orientation is a LOT stronger than that for physical causes of ->-bleeped-<-.
In short at present Gay and lesbian people are closer to being able to point to a hard coded genetic variance that causes their condition than we are. This means that the boot is, at present currently somewhat on the other foot. Yes there is now some emergent evidence for genetic and hormonal influences for us, but actually we have some catching up to do on that score, and in fact the very fact that people often accept the intrinsic nature of our condition whilst wrongly accusing gays and lesbians of making a lifestyle choice is one very good justification for some of their resentment of us!
In fact when you consider the facts you will find that far from being the obvious and very visible faction that you claim, once we have transitioned most of us vanish successfully back into society.
In terms of acceptance I don't see any difference. All sections of society are equally likely to say something rude (or not) in my experience.
What I do see is that as soon as we start fractionating the right wing so called moral majority, who actually are not moral and are probably not even a majority either will see us as isolated, and an easy target. In fact I would not be surprised if they were not actively trying to encourage this very kind of split.
So as someone who belongs to the intersex, trans, Gay, lesbian and Bi communities , and who since my successful treatment now feels myself to be cisgender again I say NO! Over my dead body will my heritage be torn apart like this.
Quote from: rejennyrated on October 25, 2010, 04:40:39 PM
and I can assure you that Gays and Lesbians ARE NOT so by a choice. They are equally that way because of something intrinsic to them. In fact the scientific evidence in favour of physical causes for sexual orientation is a LOT stronger than that for physical causes of ->-bleeped-<-.
Oops! That didn't really come out the way I meant it. By no means did I intend to imply that anybody had choices in these matters. The distinction I was trying to get at was this:
My gender issues are all about me, exclusively. Gayness, by my definition, necessarily involves somebody else too.
If I was the last person on Earth, I'd still be a woman. If I was the last person on Earth, I would be neither straight nor gay, because I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone else.
That was the distinction I was groping to understand, not anything, at all, about choice.
Quote from: rejennyrated on October 25, 2010, 04:40:39 PM
Yes there is now some emergent evidence for genetic and hormonal influences for us,
A 2009 article in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism details the conclusions of a recent "Task Force". The Etiology section is probably the best summary of where scientific thought is, regarding the causes of ->-bleeped-<-. I think it is pretty much accepted that it's a developmental birth-defect that relates to hormone washes going awry; and the cutting edge science is trying to figure out exactly what happens and when, and in what different ways.
Of course there is always the interplay of nature and nurture involved, as with almost anything.
When I first came to Susans' I thought of myself as a gay man who's been married to a woman for almost 30 years.
I suppose I fell into that because it was convienent, it compartmentalised some unresolved thoughts.
Now, I'm not so sure. My desires, when I was younger, were to be the female partner of a nice guy, a bit older than me.
I have no wish to cheat on my wife. No wish to not be married to her. I suppose all I'd really ask for, if the opportunty arose, is to have the ugly bits removed.
As for sex. I don't, in all honesty, have any ambitions now.
As far as societies preceptions are concrned. I get the impression that they would call almost anything that isn't very hetro, gay. Or they would more likely use another word.
As for parting from the gay movement, I am personally in favour. It seems to be happening over here with Stonewall. But we could find ourselves cast adrift if we don't try to organise.
Nothing boils my water quicker than being referred to as a gay guy
I am a woman born with a birth defect that I hope to correct at some time in the near future
Nothing against gay folks... Many are wonderful people, some are jerks
Anyway, I'm not interested in being a separatist or being corralled and labeled
I would imagine it could be likened to various racial and/or religious, political and financial issues with the name calling and ill behavior that goes with all that stuff
I am a human being and I support human rights
I am gay. Completely, totally, no question gay. I've had literally no trouble being accepted by my gay friends, I've been treated well in "the community" as a whole, I fit in. I'm family and it's obvious.
My thoughts on the matter: I'm not separating myself. No way, no how. Being gay is as much a core part of my identity as being trans. My closest friends have been gay since high school, maybe even down to middle school. The gays are the friends I went to when I decided to come out, they're the ones who teach me how to dress, they're the ones who flirt with me and dance with me and call me by the right pronouns every time.
On a larger scale, the gay community (barring HRC, Joe Solomonese, and Barney Frank) are the ones fighting for my right to be employed as a gay trans man. They're the ones who want me to be protected under hate crimes statutes. They're the ones who reliably support us in our right to use the right bathrooms, be on the right sports teams, access medical care and conduct our personal lives unmolested.
Neither gays nor trans people would be where we are without the support of the other (very much overlapping) community. That's a simple fact. I'll say what I say to those on both sides of the fence who suggest "divorcing": Be very careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Gender identity has nothing to do with sexual preference, we all know that here. But while many people have come to understand or at least accept homosexuality over the years, transsexuality is less understood. I don't really know why these 2 are associated with each other. My hunches direct me to the misunderstanding of transsexuality.
When people define gender as being fixed to ones sex, a lot of straight trans people are forced in the gay cathegory. From this point of view it is not surprising that people make a mental connection between the two. That does not mean they are correct though.
In my case I consider myself a straight man and I have come to realize that ones gender and personality is far more important to me than ones genetic sex. It is understandable that many transpeople are irritated when they are falsely accused of being gay, but personally I am beyond caring. I for myself know who I love and why. If people will call me gay just because they got homosexuality defined in a different way than I have than that is regrettable. Naturally I will defend it but in the end it doesn't really matter anymore. Why do people make such an issue out of it? Is it because they want everything to be easily cathegorized? The world is not as black and white as people might think.
Many people think homosexuality is a "light" version of transsexuality, or transsexuality is homosexuality taken to the extreme. Indeed, quite a lot of "experts" still believe this, though that's utter nonsense. Anyway, we get lumped together by ignorants no matter whether we want it or not and have to deal with homophobia, as well as our partners (and, on top of that, transphobia of course).
Then again, unless you're asexual or you're one of the few who were "straight" both before and after transition in the view of the outside world ("oh, he was into girls, now he's a she and she's into boys"), at a certain point in your life, you kind of belong(ed) to the LGB group. So the personal/individual overlap between the LGB and the T is so huge that it would be difficult to pretend they're not related at all.
Is sexual orientation fixed? because I think it has changed for me during my life. But that was no doubt because I was lost about what was happening to me? If I dated girls in the past does that I mean I was lesbian or straight? When not dating I was technically bi... but since starting HRT I'm now asexual.
I don't know what the future holds I guess I'm open to either still but that could change...again.
So I am open minded about this subject but the system wants us to be closed minded about it... and well... actually would prefer us to be straight, which makes it sound like a choice............. or no choice, in a way.... go figure.
I identify way more with being a gay man than I do with being a transman. This is not to say that I am ashamed of nor rejecting my transsexual status. It's just that I have always known myself to be 1) male and 2) attracted to men.
I've had nothing but friendly support from my expanding circle of gay male friends. I've encountered a little hostility from lesbians, but not from all lesbians. So far, if any straight, non-trans folks disapprove of me, they're keeping it to themselves and that's fine.
I wouldn't want to be divorced from the GLB community. I'm a part of it, either way. If I had to 'pick sides' I'd go be with my gay bros who've been there for me during my transition. I'd rather not pick sides.
I am in favour of our association with the gay movement. Afterall, many T people are gay and there are some gay-identified people who eventually (also) identify as trans. There is strength in numbers. (Actually, as far as society is concerned most T-people are gay, we are either seen as gay before transition or gay after, or both...)
As a trans woman who is attracted to women I am gay.
Quote from: clairezoey on October 25, 2010, 04:09:35 PM
im not gay. i love boobs. i love girl. they so preety and i think lesbian is hot..lol
So you're gay....
I'm super-gay. Really, really, really, really gay. Hard-core lesbian, that's me. I'm such a dyke, Shiprock wishes it as much of a dyke as I am. Holland feels inadequate when I'm around.
Yeah, definitely gay.
--- edit ---
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smbc-comics.com%2Fcomics%2F20100610after.gif&hash=a3d9792da801b1a49510f81686289f6eb31ee008) (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1904#comic)
Quote from: Alyssa M. on October 26, 2010, 01:28:58 AM
I'm super-gay. Really, really, really, really gay. Hard-core lesbian, that's me. I'm such a dyke, Shiprock wishes it as much of a dyke as I am. Holland feels inadequate when I'm around.
Yeah, definitely gay.
Okay, so I wouldn't like to land on a lonely island with no one else but you after a shipwreck. Guess it would be nice to meet you, but in such a scenario, it would be very frustrating. ;D
I'm gay.
Bottom line is I love men and want a relationship with a man.
I think I got off easy not having to grow up male and gay; I got to live as straight and be socially acceptable. Yes I had body dysphoria and anxiety and the like about having an F body, but I do think it was easier. The more gay men I meet my age, the more convinced I am.
Jay
Quote from: Alyssa M. on October 26, 2010, 01:28:58 AM
I'm such a dyke, Shiprock wishes it as much of a dyke as I am. Holland feels inadequate when I'm around.
Now I will always think of you whenever I set foot outside my house. ???
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_4eM-gjABWjQ%2FS-3YdfvBedI%2FAAAAAAAABJ0%2FJivzZhDVkIg%2Fs1600%2Fdeltawerken.jpg&hash=895690ef3c5442d2628508fb05b3bfd9962b6d9d)
Pansexual.
I'm into humans. :)
I'm a girl... I'm attracted to guys ergo not gay. Simple as that. Being transgender has nothing to do with your sexual orientation.
I'm not gay, maybe a little bi but mostly it's boystown all the way and as such Holland feels fairly secure around me. The problem I think is that sometimes there is quite a bit of transphobia in the gay community and quite a bit of homophobia in the trans community. If we were to get past this then I think that the LGBT thing would work better. Anyone who thinks that going it alone will stop the bigots from thinking that we are a bunch of queers is sadly deluded, better to fight this kind of prejudice together.
Personally, I'd describe myself as bisexual, but that might change when I start hormones.
There's a point I want to clarify though : because it is (by people who actually know anything about it) currently accepted that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different fields that influence each other without being "directly proportional", we can easily conclude to transsexuals having nothing to do with homosexuals. However, before making such a conclusion, one must take into account that :
-More transsexuals than non-trans people are homo- or bisexual. [I read that somewhere] While that doesn't prove anything, it appears to show a certain level of correlation between the phenomena.
-The "LGBT" movement is not only a movement to help people who love people of the same gender to be accepted. It's overall a movement helping "people who live sexuality in a non-traditional way" to find their place in society. So while the "T" is clearly apart from the "LGB" in its definition, I think the group still should be as is, as union gives power, and we share with "LGB"s a common need to be understood. However, our needs being different from theirs [they want to be accepted as they are, while many of us want to blend in the mass of the chosen gender], maybe making the "T" a new organisation separate from the "LGB" one, while retaining cooperation between the two would be best...
Before HRT, I was straight. Married three times to women ( hmmmmmm I guess you could say I am lesbian ).
Now that I have been on HRT for the last 29 months, I am more attracted to guys.
So I am going to say my orientation is fluid. How does this relate to the whole movement? Because of one part of Transsexual, we become part of the whole Sexual Orientation Movement. And that is the "sexual" part of the word. But are we really part of the movement? No not really. Yes we get benefits from it, but we are really not part of it.
I believe female hormones tend to make the subject more sensitive to male pheromones while male hormones do the contrary. I think it's normal to be more attracted to the opposite sex after beginning hormone replacement therapies.
Quote from: A on October 26, 2010, 11:08:17 AM
I female hormones tend to make the subject more sensitive to male pheromones while male hormones do the contrary. I think it's normal to be more attracted to the opposite sex after beginning hormone replacement therapies.
Now I get why I could be bi and why nothing changes no matter what hormones run through my system. Can hardly smell anything at all, it's a disability I have.
Could be an explanation. I feel sorry for you ; I love smelling stuff that smells good
Quote from: A on October 26, 2010, 11:13:45 AM
Could be an explanation. I feel sorry for you ; I love smelling stuff that smells good
Don't feel sorry for me, I live in a place where chemical industry is huge, and sometimes it really stinks here, so I rather get envied than pitied for my disability. :D
At first when I was around 10 I thought maybe I was gay, boys were cute :) as I got older and realized I was really a girl boys be came hot and I wanted one, but "strait" boys didn't like the idea so I found some gay boys and enjoyed that VERY much ;) what woman doesn't want a man, so one of the men invited me to a party there were guys and girls doing everything to each other........... I REALLY LIKED that ;) so if I had to put my sexuality into a box I would say I am Bi-sexual woman :)
My problem with gay men is that I don't tend to get errections. They usually think I don't find them attractive or that I'm not enjoying myself.
The truth is I do and I am. But not in the way they are with me.
I use to think that was a pretty good explaination. But lately, I'm begining to think that I may just be rather unusual in this area.
Or maybe I'm just unique. ;D
I am strictly bi. My wife and I often check out the boys at the mall. I believe that if T's weren't listed under LGBT we wouldn't be listed anywhere, except in TV GUIDE under "Jerry Springer." If a well financed, active, politically connected group strictly for Trans people (for the whole spectrum) ever takes off, I might well join and contribute time and money. Until then, I'll stick with the group that looks best for accomplishing my goals.
By the way, check out some of the political blogs with the problems that the gay groups are having with Obama. Unfortunately, the truth is that the US is a center right country with an extremist religious core that sticks together and votes as a block. We, however, fight ourselves. You don't win battles or the war that way. The Huffington has been reporting that in two years Obama has appointed more self identifying gay and trans people than Bill Clinton did in 8 years. Which is progress?- our people in important jobs, acting as role models, or enacting ENDA and ending DADT? One is doable, while still being able to elect some democrats, while the other MAY be doable, but it ends up electing a right wing religious landslide. I'll take the gains, hope for the rest.
Quote from: Cindy Stephens on October 26, 2010, 12:39:01 PM
I am strictly bi. My wife and I often check out the boys at the mall. I believe that if T's weren't listed under LGBT we wouldn't be listed anywhere, except in TV GUIDE under "Jerry Springer." If a well financed, active, politically connected group strictly for Trans people (for the whole spectrum) ever takes off, I might well join and contribute time and money. Until then, I'll stick with the group that looks best for accomplishing my goals.
By the way, check out some of the political blogs with the problems that the gay groups are having with Obama. Unfortunately, the truth is that the US is a center right country with an extremist religious core that sticks together and votes as a block. We, however, fight ourselves. You don't win battles or the war that way. The Huffington has been reporting that in two years Obama has appointed more self identifying gay and trans people than Bill Clinton did in 8 years. Which is progress?- our people in important jobs, acting as role models, or enacting ENDA and ending DADT? One is doable, while still being able to elect some democrats, while the other MAY be doable, but it ends up electing a right wing religious landslide. I'll take the gains, hope for the rest.
I'll agree with the first part.
On the second part, however: The US is
not a centre-right country. If you look at polls of people's
actual opinions on issues, rather than what they think their political alignment is, you find that ~70% of Americans are in favour of repealing DADT. A slight majority, and an overwhelming majority of young people, favours gay marriage. A strong majority count an LGBT person among their friends.
The reason why these views aren't reflected in our laws is that the right side of the aisle is very very good at making a lot of people think of themselves as conservatives and think of conservatism as a mainstream point of view. They cast the right as the side of responsible, moral adults, and the left as a coalition of unemployed amoral hippie freeloaders. And they're very good at propaganda and messaging. But if you poll on issues without making it obvious that they're attached to partisan politics, you find the average American is more of a left-libertarian or classical liberal than anything else. Voter opinion on issues only tends to shift rightward when the questions are phrased or presented in a way that triggers them to remember Republican talking points and right wing messaging.
"Center-right country" is one of those talking points. It's designed to make moderates feel that conservatism is more in line with the respectable majority they like to think of themselves as representing, while also demoralizing liberals and left-libertarians by making us think we're a fringe minority who don't actually stand a chance of making real progress. But we do. Americans are behind us. They support equal rights and fairness. They're decent people.
Even members of the extreme religious core you describe are more diverse and complex than a lot of media analysts like to think; white evangelical youth are only mildly more conservative than their peers, black and Hispanic evangelicals are very complicated and not easily assigned to any position on the spectrum, and Catholics - while their church is violently anti-LGBT - are actually reliably liberal and pro-equality in most areas of the country.
Completely, 100% lesbian...well there may be 2% that thinks some guys are pretty, but eeeeeeew...they smell funny.
Quote from: Kaelleria on October 26, 2010, 10:22:49 AM
I'm a girl... I'm attracted to guys ergo not gay. Simple as that. Being transgender has nothing to do with your sexual orientation.
Right....because we already didn't know that. Seriously though, as I said above, there are, I am certain, many people out there that see you right now or have seen you in the past as gay, regardless of your own thoughts on the matter. Furthermore, just because you don't see yourself as gay doesn't mean that that position represents the whole community.
Asking a question like
how gay are we? is like asking
how blue is the sky? or
how long is a piece of rope?The truth of the matter is that while ->-bleeped-<- is indeed, because it concerns gender identity, different from the issue of sexual orientation, to say that the two concepts are totally unrelated is not only naive but a down right lie. The two are intrinsically interrelated, both in abstract psychological terms are well as practical social terms.
To the vast majority of people in this world, gender identity and sexual orientation go hand in hand. In simple economic terms it makes absolute sense for us (all trans people, be they straight or gay, bi or asexual) to be apart of the gay/queer community. They have the numbers. They have the strength. And in that case it makes perfect sense to piggy back on their structures and feed off their energy to further our own causes. I would rather the trans community be the T in LGBT than on its own.
So, whether we like it or not, and whether we view ourselves as gay or not, we all have been, are, or will be in the future the victim of gay discrimination. Thus, any benefits that can be gained for gays 1) impacts on us directly (because many of us identify as gay or are seen as gay by society) and 2) impacts on us indirectly (because more gay rights will make it easier to gain trans rights further down the line).
To try and create a wedge between ourselves and the gay community would not only be disingenuous but would be down-right suicidal.
I have to disagree : for me, personally, the US are a semi-extremist right-oriented country. Not the people, the laws. Whenever identifying a country as right-or lift-oriented, I never think about the people : even if in some Middle-East country 80% people are against forcing women to veil themselves, if the law still forces them to do so, I will regard that country as one who forces women to veil themselves, independently of people's opinion.
It's the same with the US : even if many people are for left-oriented measures, for me, a country where (in part of it) gay marriage went from legal to illegal, where the constitution guarantees the right to carry a killing instrument at all times, where the rich are advantaged, where you actually have to PAY for the hospital (well, less since some law passed I hear) and where the government will hardly help you if you're unable to pay your small 2-room apartment will always be a very right-oriented country, unless those laws change.
I agree with much of what's been said other than this though.
The biggest problem of the USA is, you have basically only 2 parties, which does not offer much choice. Which seems weird for Europeans, we are used to have 3-10 parties in the parliament depending on the country and year.
Well and then the USA went on shunning the UdSSR for having one party instead of two, and we Europeans were like - well, they have just ONE party LESS than the USA, and that's why they hate the UdSSR and think they're disgusting? This has even become a joke in Europe. "Why do the Americans hate the Russians?" - "Cause the Russians have one party less than the Americans."
Okay I'm exagerating here, but I know that there's something wrong with your political system which almost does not allow any other party to come up, it was an agreement between the Republicans and the Democrats and together, they settled the law about 100 years ago or more. I read it up but do not remember it in detail. Well, however, it would seem weird to me to have basically only the choice between two parties. (Our German system is horribly flawed at well, in other ways, but I'll talk about it another time, and at the moment, at least we have 5 parties to choose from. They're almost all horribly corrupt, but well at least it's a choice. E. g., for transgender rights, the Linke (left party with a left extremist wing, least corrupt), the Greens (leftist ecologist party, somewhat corrupt) and the FDP (Liberal economists, they'll sell our rights for money at any time how, most corrupt and amoral party of our country) are best.
Best wishes
Robin
Actually there are several parties in the USA... But the Republicans and/or Democrats always beat everyone else out during elections and one or the other end up running the show :-\
I'm going to flat out say that I have no concrete idea as to where I am on the sexual spectrum, since at this point I really don't care, and everything I did in this past (trust me, not much, as I couldn't stomach it) was under the assumption that I was in fact a straight male... well, I know that for one, I never felt male, and I assumed that being in the role of a straight male, would make me feel male. God knows that and my vast array of compensation methods didn't work ::). For now I identify as bisexual since I now am starting to find males attractive too. Before HRT, or in the first 5 months, I would've probably described myself as lesbian. I'm still watching my sexuality evolve as time goes by. I really don't care where I end up on the spectrum in regards to sexuality. When it comes to where I live, which happens to be Canada, no one really cares if you're L, G, or B.
Quote from: Miniar on October 26, 2010, 09:18:34 AM
Pansexual.
I'm into humans. :)
Quoted because I agree. I'm pretty much this, though I do have a preference when it comes to look (though that won't stop me dating just about anyone).
Anyway, I feel very little acceptance as me within the LBG community, at least the community in my area. The people at the group I belong to are a lot of fun, but they really need to read the literature they bring to the group about the Trans community instead of just handing it out.
I'm bisexual. To be more precise, I don't care about my partner's sex or gender, in theory, any extreme or mix-max works for me (though I care about their looks).
However, I don't want to call myself pansexual, as I'm still into looks, and as I got so much ->-bleeped-<- thrown at me as a bisexual before I knew the other term existed that I don't want hide away under the "pansexual" label. It's difficult enough for many people to get what bisexuality is, and well I tell that there's more genders than one once I've made it clear that bis are not greedy, immature, ->-bleeped-<-ing anybody, closeted gays, adventurous straights blabla... So first the bi 101, then - maybe - the trans 101. That's too much for many people's willingness to learn about new things anyway.
So yes, I'm part of the LGBT in both ways. Dated guys and girls before, and will probably date guys and girls in the future until I find the "right one". However, the B and the T tend to be shunned away by the LB... which I think is awful.
I was queer before I started transition, and queer I remain, regardless of gender expression.
And over the years I have known plenty of LGBTQ people of many flavors. My impression has been that we are all part of this big, colorful queer continuum and do indeed lump well enough together.
Quote from: SydneyTinker on October 26, 2010, 07:53:04 PM
My impression has been that we are all part of this big, colorful queer continuum and do indeed lump well enough together.
My thoughts exactly ;D In fact, I just want to belong to the NASMA (Not a small minded arsehole) community, who's with me? We can have a parade!! :D ::)
This is interesting. The T community is much more scattered on the sexual orientation field as the straight one. I've personally met 6 transgenders; 2 are straight, 2 are gay and two feel the same way as me: right now, I consider sex only with a woman (no penetration for me, thanks) but after transitioning, I could also be with men. I guess this happens because we think about our options more due to our queerness. Cis-straights admit less wishes because they're more frustrated with what others would say.
Quote from: MillieB on October 26, 2010, 08:05:38 PM
My thoughts exactly ;D In fact, I just want to belong to the NASMA (Not a small minded arsehole) community, who's with me? We can have a parade!! :D ::)
With you one-hundred percent on that! 8)
GBLT makes me think of this song:
Sesame Street: Cookie Monster's Sorting Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WhuikFY1Pg#)
We definitely seem to be tucked in as an afterthought, but I do appreciate the fact that their efforts have helped our recognition and rights as well.
I identify as straight, personally I'm fine with the association.
The way I see it, we are all connected in the sense that we are all persecuted because we don't conform to the expectations of the gender other people have assigned us.
In that sense, we are similar.
I find I can get along with LGBT people pretty well because even if we have very different problems, at the core it still boils down to the same thing, which is that we are not like the majority and are often ridiculed or persecuted for it.
Doesn't mean we all have to agree with eachother all of the time.
I am amazingly gay. I was "that ->-bleeped-<-got" when I was a kid.
Technically, I'm bisexual, but that leaves me safely in LGB territory regardless of my transition state or presentation.
When labels come up, I tell people I'm queer.
LGBT makes great sense to me as a category. It just contains a lot of diversity within the set.