Good evening.
I have been on estrodial and spiro for about 4 days. There are lots of results that are always discussed that are positive.
What I never see is a discussion on the feelings and short term effects of your body chemistry changing.
I woke up in a panic this morning with a nasty Charlie Horse and I got scared that it might be a clot. It went away after a few minutes and now my calf is aching. I did research on clots and it isn't warm, discolored, etc. My other leg has also been a slightly aching all day too.
I emailed my doctor to make sure I'm ok, but after much research, it appears that Charlie Horse's can because by dehydration. This now makes total sense to me. Spiro has made me use the restroom a lot over the last four days and I haven't been drinking a lot of water.
Nowhere have i seen anyone discuss things like staying on top of water consumption while on hormones but I thought I'd start a thread to discuss the "unspoken" side effects of HRT and what to do to correct those issues.
Anyone else have anything to share?
Spiro is a diuretic, so you need to drink more water to keep from getting dehydrated.
Another thing to consider is that estrogen, although it changes the fat content of the skin and decreases the size of the sebaceous cells, dries the surface. Use more creams and lotions.
Most of the other possible unpleasant side effects that I know of are longer-range, like increased risk of osteoporosis and liver damage. It would be unusual to get deep vein thrombosis in four days. But these are some of the reasons why you need to be checked out before you start and have someone knowledgeable check your levels periodically.
- Kate
Epigania, Spiro is also a diuretic,so you have to be very careful not to get dehydrated which can cause the cramps etc. Drink lots of fluids especially if you are perspiring quite a bit!!!!
I drive race cars and wear a 3 layer fire suit,when i was on spiro(i am post-op now) i had to be very careful that i drank enough liquids,and you will use the bathroom more and with E your prostate becomes less effective(you have no idea how much this holds things back until it becomes ineffective and finally gone)The best of luck on your journey!!!
Thanks for the responses! Other than water, any hydration tips? Gator Aid?
Yup... that's Spiro... really painful leg cramps in your calf muscles.
I exercise every day, and find that a good deal of stretching (like putting you leg up on a rail, table, etc and bending your body towards your foot) really helps. Also eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. Spiro is a potassium saving diruetic, meaning it can cause a build up of potassium in your body... but you also need to make sure you are getting enough potassium in your diet, as a potassium deficiency will also cause muscle cramps. Basically you need to have your endo monitor your potassium level to make sure you're getting just the right amount.
And drinking a ton of water helps. ;)
Some spiro information
General Information
Spironolactone is a potassium-sparing medication used as a diuretic medication for heart failure, liver disease and high blood pressure. It may also be used to treat other conditions as determined by your doctor. However, it has also been found useful for hirsutism, acne and seborrhoea because it has anti-androgenic properties.
Because of the anti-androgenic (Anti-Male Hormone) properties it is frequently prescribed in a male to female HRT feminizing regimen.
Generic Names (Common Brand Names)
amiloride (Midamor, Amikal, Amilospare, Arumil, Modamide, Nirulid, Pandiuren)
spironolactone (Aldactone, Adultmin, Aldopur, Aldospirone, Almatol, Berlactone, Diatensec, Diram, Esekon, Hypazon, Idrolattone, Merabis, Novospiroton, Osiren, Osyrol, Pirolacton, Resacton, Sincomen, Spiractin, Spiroctan, Spirolacton, Spirolang, Spironex, Tevaspirone, Verospiron, Xenalon Lactabs, Youlactone)
triamterene (Dyrenium, Amterene, Diarrol, Diuteren, Dytac, Jatropur, Reviten, Suloton, Triamteril, Trian, Urocaudal)
* This list may not include all brand names.
Side Effects of Spironolactone - for the Consumer
All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor, side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome when using Spironolactone:
Diarrhea; drowsiness; headache; nausea; stomach cramping; vomiting.
Low Blood Pressure: this medication is a blood pressure lowering diuretic, working by increasing fluid loss (urinating) in the body. Frequent urination is a common side effect. Patients may also note dizziness and lightheadedness until accustomed to medication.
Seek medical attention right away if any of these SEVERE side effects occur when using Spironolactone:
Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); black, tarry, or bloody stools; change in the amount of urine produced; confusion; dark urine; decreased sexual ability; enlarged breasts in men; irregular or missed menstrual periods; pale stools; severe or persistent stomach pain; symptoms of abnormal fluid or electrolyte levels (eg, fast, slow, or irregular heartbeat; increased thirst; muscle weakness; severe or persistent dry mouth, nausea, or vomiting; severe or persistent dizziness or drowsiness; unusual fatigue or sluggishness; tingling sensation); yellowing of the skin or eyes.
Spironolactone Side Effects - for the Professional
The following adverse reactions have been reported and, within each category (body system), are listed in order of decreasing severity.
Digestive: Gastric bleeding, ulceration, gastritis, diarrhea and cramping, nausea, vomiting.
Endocrine: Gynecomastia, inability to achieve or maintain erection, irregular menses or amenorrhea, postmenopausal bleeding. Carcinoma of the breast has been reported in patients taking Spironolactone but a cause and effect relationship has not been established.
Hematologic: Agranulocytosis.
Hypersensitivity: Fever, urticaria, maculopapular or erythematous cutaneous eruptions, anaphylactic reactions, vasculitis.
Metabolism:Hyperkalemia (Elevated Potassium Levels)
Nervous System/Psychiatric: Mental confusion, ataxia, headache, drowsiness, lethargy.
Liver/Biliary: A very few cases of mixed cholestatic/hepatocellular toxicity, with one reported fatality, have been reported with Spironolactone administration.
Renal: Renal dysfunction (including renal failure).
Medical Supervision
As with ALL medications, medical supervision and regular blood testing is needed when administering spironolactone. In some cases patients may suffer from Hyperkalemia (Elevated Potassium Levels. This can lead to dizziness, racing and/or irregular heartbeat and possibly death.
In cases where the patient is found to have Hyperkalemia the patient must monitor their intake of potassium.
Maintain your fluid intake, Water is best. Gator Aid isn't bad. Coffee is also a diuretic, and should be avoided in large quantities. Trust me on that one. Tea can be a step up from coffee.
Stretching out your calf muscles before arising is a good thing. Otherwise you can get a cramp from hell. I got them when I was on Spiro.
Thank you for the medical information, Cynthia.
That's one of the things I hated about being on spiro... Luckily I was low T to begin with so I wasn't on it very long
Water, juices, fresh fruits, salads with mainly lettuce... I tend to like the Sobe drinks over Gator piss... Something about the flavor :laugh:
I used to get charlie horses too and still do every now and then and I have been on HRT for 15 years.
signs of a clot would be if one calve is bigger than the other, also tenderness, discolored,
It would be highly unlikely you would get a clot in just 4 days ...
If I feel really dehydrated I drink a Gatorade and it has been a life saver for me I always keep some in case of emergency cause the spiro will do that and you just have to stay hydrated, not only charlie horses but when you are dehydrated and your electrolytes are off you can get all kinds of bad symptoms from extreme un-quenchable thirst to low blood pressure and heart arrhythmia.
I would just say drink water and you can be free to add a little more salt to things. Sodium is a minor electrolyte too! Stay clear of high potassium foods and drinks seeing as you'll be more susceptible to hyperkalemia (High blood potassium).
I have heard that Spiro's diuretic effect goes away with time. Some report it going away after a few weeks, some report it never going away. It'll just be a matter of watching and waiting. If the diuretic effect becomes too much, there are a few other AAs to consider.
First day of HRT, horrible horrible migraine that combined with some uhm excitement kept me awake till 6am -__-, I was also worried about DVTs but I don't think it's a huge risk that early on.
What you're describing sounds like cramps. Someone else mentioned Sprio causing you to retain Potassium, which is true, and electrolyte imbalances can cause you to have cramps (especially sodium and potassium imbalances). Avoid foods high in potassium (banannas are the most common).
Quote from: Failcake on November 03, 2010, 06:55:53 PM
First day of HRT, horrible horrible migraine that combined with some uhm excitement kept me awake till 6am -__-, I was also worried about DVTs but I don't think it's a huge risk that early on.
I would say the headache is due to the emotion and excitement of starting the journey... I have them now and I am not yet started!
:)
I think that keeping yourself hydrated, (usually filtered water is the best thing), is always a good idea.
It will help the kidneys in their function, and since we are taking pills and making the liver work on them, those things also go to the blood, and the kidneys have to filter them. The more water we have (too much is not good either), the less stress we will put in our kidneys.
I like to have always a glass of water in my table, and drink from it every now and then. I do it now, even before taking hormones, and I will do it even more when I start.
It's a good health habit... and it gives you the time to relax at work too, and make a break every now and then.
creams/body lotions are always a good idea. I guess I will be much more regular on that once I am started! No I only do it once every week...
Yep bathroom a lot, drink lots of water. I've only had one night of a charlie horse in 11 months of HRT so far though
Thankfully, I have not had any other cramps since Sunday. I think that my body was just confused but all is good now.
Considering what I am doing to my body, it's amazing how little shock my body has gone through.
it will only get better from here...
I now get frequent headaches. I never did before. I call them hormone headaches.
This is spoken about, but I can't get it up. That suits me fine. But I know for some people with partners that still desire that part of them to work it could be distressing. When I do get an erection is painful.
Quote from: Nicky on November 05, 2010, 06:06:15 PM
This is spoken about, but I can't get it up. That suits me fine. But I know for some people with partners that still desire that part of them to work it could be distressing. When I do get an erection is painful.
Me too. Before GRS, I would sometimes check to see if things still worked. Erections were difficult and ejaculation was painful rather than relieving. The whole procedure became distressing. I'm glad that's not an issue anymore. :P
- Kate
Yeah, I checked once too K8, and totally did not enjoy it at all. I did get it to 'work', it has been a few months since then. Sometime I am tempted to give it a whirl out of curiosity, but I really don't have any desire to.
Yup, 4 months time I'm gonna be 8 inches shorter and a couple pounds lighter lol ;)
Well... I am not sure I will enjoy it or not...
I am more in the other side... not really thrilled to use it for much longer... no matter the genre of the partner I am with...
(don't remember forum rules about this topic... so I am trying not be graphic!)
But I do think is a good thing that your body doesn't like it... and your mind doesn't like it either... right??
That is one thing that troubles me somehow in my transition... I am curious about it :)
When I first stared Spiro I got cramps in my leg muscles frequently.
Mostly when I was walking or exercising but occasionally at night.
Hate that.
Now I drink allot of fluids. I really enjoy juices.
The ones that are mostly really fruit.
I now very rarely get a leg cramps.
There has been one other side affect for me. It's more noticeable than all of the physical changes.
I just can't stop talking. Before I was always a quite person.
But now I'm a regular Chatty Kathy. I tried the other night during choir practice not say much. It wasn't even a half an hour and my mouth was running.
My wife often gives me the look and I know I'm doing it again.
Got mad at the guy that I work with cause he hushed me because I was messing with his concentration with all the chatter I was doing. Things are fine now, we apologist to each other.
Jillieann
Quote from: Jillieann on November 08, 2010, 04:39:32 PM
There has been one other side affect for me. It's more noticeable than all of the physical changes.
I just can't stop talking. Before I was always a quite person.
But now I'm a regular Chatty Kathy.
^ :) Me too.
Before, I was always quiet. Now I just talk away, perhaps making up for lost time. The other day, talking with a friend I said "Well, I talked more than the others. I seem to just keep going until someone stops me." She rolled her eyes and said, sarcastically: "No, really?" ;)
- Kate
Yeah I had zero social life pre HRT and I do now. I ussed to hide away and avoid contact as much as I could. So I guess having a social life is one of the neat side effects of HRT for me. :D
For the first time in a very long time, I've been itching to get out and meet people. I think it's because starting HRT has been such a heavy load on my mind for so long that I was very focused on my GID. Now that I'm on HRT I feel I'm much more mellow and clear headed and I'm able to think about other things.
I feel like I don't have to hide behind the trappings of my GID that I used to use to make myself feel more natural. You know ... makeup, breast forms, etc. It's weird, really. I wasn't expecting that.
Now I find myself sitting back trying to plan my next couple years and see if I can get to where I want to be. It should be ... interesting.
Another side effect that I don't see mentioned much is that to maintain my weight I eat far less. My daily caloric intake is much less and yet I struggle to keep from gaining weight. I must have burned up a lot more when on T.
- Kate
True that... I don't even eat half as much as I use to... My meal portions have become smaller and healthier
Seems like all I have to do is look at junk food and I gain a few pounds :laugh:
We had a pot luck dinner at my apt.s last month and people were kinda tripped out as to how little I ate
Yes, me too.
I have cut my intake considerably and still can't seem to lose any weight. :(
Jillieann
The other thing is my dance moves are about as girlie as they get :laugh:
But seriously, all of my movements seem to be more feminine
Just last night I took my first spiro and estrogen pills.
I woke up in the night very nauseated. Went to vomit but instead almost fainted and
had discharge of all bodily waist.
Today I feel hung over although I did not party last night at all.
Still feel very nauseated and wander how am going to counteract that.
Anyone had this kind of experience? I am pretty scared of the next doses, although RN told me to
take the spiro in the morning with some food instead of in the evening. I know I was dehydrated last night so I am hoping to see some improvement tomorrow.
envie
Sounds like you need to make sure you eat a little some thing like the nurse said. And drink a lot of water with Spiro.
Are you titrating up to the eventual dose or did you start on the full dose out the gate?
Also taking spiro with food like the nurse said is a good plan.
If it turns out you can not take spiro, do not panik there are other options available.
Things that weren't written in the book.
- Freckles!
- Cracked heels.
- Sneezing immediately after a shot.
- Morning sickness following a Shot.
- Food cravings.
- That strange ridge running down your penis to your anus appearing.
- Easier to cry.
Yes, I am on the full dose out of the gate. My doctor never recommended anything else and she does have experience with HRT.
I took my todays dose with my breakfast an hour ago. So far everything is fine.
Thanks everyone for your input!
When I took my first dose, it upset my stomach a bit. A day later, I was visiting the bathroom a lot. 2 weeks into it, it no longer upsets my stomach and I don't use the bathroom nearly as much.
The first week was a little brutal as my body was starting to adjust to things. I had cramps, frequent usage of the bathroom, and with the prostate apparently shrinking, I felt there was a lot of ... pressure. And with all of that, I'd cry at the drop of a dime.
That's all subsided completely now.
Stick with it and talk to your doctor. She can help you if you have any worries.
It is a shame that Androcur (cyproterone acetate) is not availale in the US. It is a far better anti androgen and is not a diuretic. It will lower your T to female levels all by itself in about 3 weeks!
Quote from: StacyBeaumont on November 14, 2010, 04:00:51 PM
It is a shame that Androcur (cyproterone acetate) is not availale in the US. It is a far better anti androgen and is not a diuretic. It will lower your T to female levels all by itself in about 3 weeks!
I am pretty lucky in that I only need a very low dose of spiro to get my T low enough to do the job.
But having Androcur would have been a nice option.
It's been almost 10 hours since the last SPIRO intake and I feel good!
Non of the horror experiences of the night before the last reoccured.
But even when I felt so sick I felt so strangely happy as I feel right now as well.
I did not expect to feel so uplifted for no apparent reason. ESTROGEN may be?
Quote from: envie on November 14, 2010, 05:46:05 PM
I did not expect to feel so uplifted for no apparent reason. ESTROGEN may be?
That would be my experience. Even though I felt miserable the first couple days, I was still happier and more ... content.
Quote from: envie on November 14, 2010, 05:46:05 PM
It's been almost 10 hours since the last SPIRO intake and I feel good!
Non of the horror experiences of the night before the last reoccured.
But even when I felt so sick I felt so strangely happy as I feel right now as well.
I did not expect to feel so uplifted for no apparent reason. ESTROGEN may be?
Estrogen intoxication is what I called it. At first it was super strong and in my face. As time has gone on I recognise it less but only because it is always there. As it is always there I tend to forget about it.
Enjoy it, I find it to be one of the biggest pay off's of getting the right hormones into ones body.
(Sevan had T euphoria when ze first started testosterone so I am pretty sure it is just a result of the right fuel for the engine.)
Quote from: pebbles on November 14, 2010, 08:12:39 AM
Things that weren't written in the book.
- Freckles!
- Cracked heels.
- Sneezing immediately after a shot.
- Morning sickness following a Shot.
- Food cravings.
- That strange ridge running down your penis to your anus appearing.
- Easier to cry.
F-f-f-freckles?! :o!
Oh, the sneezing is kinda like when you look into the sun and sneeze. One sense gets overloaded and then you sneeze for some reason @_@
Still, freckles?! Oh man...I sure hope I get a few ._.
Quote from: Aidan_ on November 14, 2010, 07:03:27 PM
Still, freckles?! Oh man...I sure hope I get a few ._.
You can have a few thousand of mine ... ::)
Being red headed has its disadvantages ...
So that why I've been sneezing more lately.
That's a relief I though my sinus condition was getting worst. :D
QuoteEstrogen intoxication
I like that.
Yes it is good feeling at first but now I'm use to it and just seems normal but a it is a much better normal.
Jillieann
Hello Epigania!
Yes, I also got SEVERE lower leg cramping while taking Spiro, mostly in my calves and ankles. I also urinated a lot as well as drank a great amount of water. No matter how much water I consumed, those awful cramps would not cease. I was afraid to go to bed every night. So... I am going to talk to my doctor about trying Avodart or Finesteride. I haven't taken any Spiro now for almost 2 weeks and the cramping has seemingly stopped. Good luck to you :angel:!
Opaque
Quote from: Aidan_ on November 14, 2010, 07:03:27 PM
F-f-f-freckles?! :o!
Oh, the sneezing is kinda like when you look into the sun and sneeze. One sense gets overloaded and then you sneeze for some reason @_@
Still, freckles?! Oh man...I sure hope I get a few ._.
I think the sneezing is related to this.
http://www.pregnancy-info.net/rhinitis.html (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/rhinitis.html)
Although it is believed that the condition is caused by changing hormone levels during pregnancy, researchers have not yet pinpointed the exact cause of pregnancy rhinitis. During pregnancy, the placenta produces large amounts of estrogen. Estrogen is known to exacerbate mucus production and may cause mucus to become very thick or very thin. Estrogen also appears to cause the turbinates inside of the nose (small, bony structures that hold the mucosa) to become swollen, which can interfere with proper breathing. Similar rhinitis episodes have been documented in women taking the birth control pill and hormone replacement therapy. The Freckles were funny my arms were becoming less hairy as a result of the HRT and there was alot of shedding my skin became clearly visible and I was thinking... Were those freckles on my arm always there? I wounder if. *looks in the mirror* And I had freckles forming across my nose and around/under my eyes and on my cheeks they stopped at the region where I'd had laser hair removal in the past... I guess those ones were killed :/
I had freckles as a kid but they dissapeared once male puberty got me apprently the female varient of me was genetically destined to not only keep them but become much MORE freckley.
I mentioned it breifly to my doctor and he said it wasn't suprising Estrogen causes the migration and proliforation of Melanocytes and he's seen a similar thing happen to pregnant women.
Quote from: pebbles on November 15, 2010, 07:05:12 AM
I think the sneezing is related to this.
http://www.pregnancy-info.net/rhinitis.html (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/rhinitis.html)
Although it is believed that the condition is caused by changing hormone levels during pregnancy, researchers have not yet pinpointed the exact cause of pregnancy rhinitis. During pregnancy, the placenta produces large amounts of estrogen. Estrogen is known to exacerbate mucus production and may cause mucus to become very thick or very thin. Estrogen also appears to cause the turbinates inside of the nose (small, bony structures that hold the mucosa) to become swollen, which can interfere with proper breathing. Similar rhinitis episodes have been documented in women taking the birth control pill and hormone replacement therapy.
I find this interesting. I've had a drippy nose since starting estrogen 19 months ago. I thought it was an allergy, like hay fever, but it has been with me year-round. I never associated it with starting hormones. ::) It seems to be lessening, so maybe my body is finally getting used to the E.
- Kate
I have crumby allergies in general because of air pollution so I use flonase on a regular basis. That hasn't affected me yet. I hope it doesn't cause I have gotten used to breathing through my nose. :D
Like Kate, my nose has dripped for ever. I thought it was from face powders, but now I am wondering if it is the Estrogen. They both started at the same time.
Quote from: pebbles on November 15, 2010, 07:05:12 AM
http://www.pregnancy-info.net/rhinitis.html (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/rhinitis.html)
Although it is believed that the condition is caused by changing hormone levels during pregnancy, researchers have not yet pinpointed the exact cause of pregnancy rhinitis. During pregnancy, the placenta produces large amounts of estrogen. Estrogen is known to exacerbate mucus production and may cause mucus to become very thick or very thin. Estrogen also appears to cause the turbinates inside of the nose (small, bony structures that hold the mucosa) to become swollen, which can interfere with proper breathing. Similar rhinitis episodes have been documented in women taking the birth control pill and hormone replacement therapy.
My doctor changed the way we are doing my progesterone. We reversed the cycle to 28 days on and 7 off. Almost the way birth control is done. I thought I was getting a cold because my sinuses have been getting plugged. But now I am wondering, because I am on the 7 days off.
well... I have most of the time my nose congested... so i guess I will not see much of a difference there...
I have not noticed any change in my mucus or sneezing rates from E.
:D
(oh the crazy crap we talk about arond here.)
To Failcake,
I started on HRT about one month ago. I also had the bad headaches. Lasted about a week. I am now stable with a much better attitude and calm which i am enjoying very much. The headache at least for me is gone.
Jo
Yep that's why my sinus condition is a little worst most of the time
Don't let that scare you out of HRT.
It's will worth a few sniffles to develop the proper body.
And the peace of mind I get is priceless.
Jillieann