Okay so last night i went out with this guy i've been dating for the last few weeks, he lost a bet and so agreed to go to to a gay bar with me here in Castro (the infamous gay neighborhood in San Francisco).
So we went into the bar, had a great night. Met a few gay guys and they invited us to their table, we all had a few beers, drunkenly danced to Abba (duh!) and everyone was hitting on Scott...you can tell he was having a good time.
So around midnight, in through the door stumbled this HOT mess- a whole 6'4, big hair, big attitude, at least 6 layers of makeup, 5 inch stilettos, tight clothes with her great breasts of wonder fighting its way out of her corset. She walked like a model, with great stride and a big step walking in like she owned the place. Of course i am mesmerized by this beauty, and couldn't take my eyes off of her (her height alone demanded attention, how could you NOT look at her?!)
Of course the entire bar stopped and checked it, she went and sat down at one of the tables and the gay couple there just cringed and started to move away. Beauty obviously noted the shift of energy in the room and started getting REALLY pissed, our table was about 4 feet away from her and one of the gays said- a little too loudly. "Is that a man or a really ugly hooker??"
Our entire table (not me) erupted laughing and of course Beauty heard him and got up in his face, she started flailing her arms at this poor gay guy and Scott had to tell her to sit her ass down. So everyone at the bar was taking turns joking at her, i just stayed quiet mostly because i was fighting the urge to get up and talk to her. She seemed super angry (i dont blame her) and she looked as though she was ready to give a ho a beat-down any minute!! So i didn't approach her at all...and she left in a hurry after several minutes...i think she felt rejected by the place.
The gays at my table started saying how that's a man in a dress and Scott doesn't even KNOW the difference between drag queen and transsexual. The convo went something like this...
Me: C'mon that's hella messed up you didn't have to call her out, but that was one prideful ho so i don't feel sorry for you.
Gay1: That's not a "she"
Gay2: That's a man trying to be a woman
The conversation went on and on and on but basically it gets summed down to two things:
1. (Some) Gays REALLY dislike trans women
2. Gays REALLY dislike trans women with bad hair, and bad makeup.
Just a rant, i feel guilty for not sticking up for her. but at the same time she was really full of animosity and wanting to start a fist fight with every one there. So i didnt bother.
My experience has been that the LGBT community is really about the L and the G. The B and the T are usually pushed to the back.
Quotebut the entire night pretty much made it clear in my mind that even T-girls are not accepted into the LGBT community...
That's a broad statement!
Two of my good friends are lesbians and are very supportive of me and my transition.
Quote from: Tamaki on January 24, 2011, 02:04:44 PM
That's a broad statement!
Two of my good friends are lesbians and are very supportive of me and my transition.
At the individual level, support can be found. But at the LGBT group level, in my experience, it's a little trickier.
Quote from: Shades O'Grey on January 24, 2011, 02:02:32 PM
My experience has been that the LGBT community is really about the L and the G. The B and the T are usually pushed to the back.
That's been pretty much experience as well. I know about 4 lesbians that are really nice and accepting of me, but the gay guys I know generally aren't as accepting and don't seem to believe me. I'm trying to bring more of the T into the group because there's another FtM who recently joined and I want him to feel accepted and that the group is truly a LGBT+ group.
Quote from: Tamaki on January 24, 2011, 02:04:44 PM
That's a broad statement!
Two of my good friends are lesbians and are very supportive of me and my transition.
i meant we still face discrimination in the LGBT community sorry...i should have rephrased that! =]
I'd agree if you said "Some Gays Don Not Like Us," or even "Many Gays do not Like Us."
But I think it's an over generalization to accuse an entire community of mistransony over the actions of a few vocal poeople in a bar. I doubt you were the only one in the bar who kept silent, or who disapproved of that treatment, but did not intervene.
Quotei meant we still face discrimination in the LGBT community sorry...i should have rephrased that! =]
Ha! You posted while I was posting. :P
Yeah! sorry...i forget that i am not around my friends and they instantly get what i am throwing out without me having to manipulate my words so much. No i do not believe that every gay person hates us, just based upon my experiences with how i encounter these situations, it is rough out there!
The question is, if they had found out that YOU are a trans individual, what kind of lame excuses would they have come up with to defend their actions. ::)
Because a lot of people argue: If you pass than it's okay. But how can you help that?
Many Gs and Ls don't like us, until they actually get to know us. One guy told me he used to hate TGs until he got to know me. I've heard that more than once.
As for the girl who got crap from the patrons where you were, I don't blame her for being pissed. Anyone who knows what it's like to be judged for what you are rather than who you are shouldn't be doing to others exactly what they hate others to do to them. Maybe that's how the golden rule got its start.
Quote from: Julie Marie on January 24, 2011, 02:36:46 PM
Many Gs and Ls don't like us, until they actually get to know us. One guy told me he used to hate TGs until he got to know me. I've heard that more than once.
Indeed, although it's a bit disappointing that it takes that to change someone's mind. Sadly, some don't even want to give us a chance at all!
You might want to change that subject line and make it a little less universal.
Quote from: SnailPace on January 24, 2011, 02:35:48 PM
The question is, if they had found out that YOU are a trans individual, what kind of lame excuses would they have come up with to defend their actions. ::)
Because a lot of people argue: If you pass than it's okay. But how can you help that?
This is very interesting, i have told gays in the past that i am a trans-individual, theyre like...no way for real?? I was like yeah, dude whatever it's cool, if you don't believe me you can put your hand down my pants and see what happens. Theyre usually like,
NO THANKS. But had Scott not have been there last night i would have told them.
I haven't experienced that. All my gay friends are so supportive and happy for me, maybe because we were friends before I identified as female. lol. I love my gays
Quote from: Britney♥Bieber on January 24, 2011, 04:09:12 PM
I haven't experienced that. All my gay friends are so supportive and happy for me, maybe because we were friends before I identified as female. lol. I love my gays
You look very pretty in your avatar, new contacts? Your skin is glowing.
Quote from: KillBelle on January 24, 2011, 04:19:54 PM
You look very pretty in your avatar, new contacts? Your skin is glowing.
Thank youuu! :) That makes me feel good cuz I'm not wearing like any face makeup in that picture (well I did photoshop my bags out) and no I just thought the light hit them just right and they look great. :)
Depends on where you are as well..
Our town's GLBT gather is lead by a Trans-girl, who was rightfully voted in by the mostly bi* group.
(*bi, pan, and "kinda bi, but more into ppl of my own gender" and such)
You find jerks in every group of people...
There are quite a few "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" people whole fall under the T as well.
The old saying, a rose by a different name is still a rose applies here.
Just because someone is LGB doesn't mean they understand T issues, just like I don't really understand some LGB issues.
Well duhhh
they use us as enetertainment at their clubs and they own most of the lesbian clubs too and take their money and well i think i know only two gay guys who cared about us and one was at a creating change convention and the other alphie did die sticking up for a TS sister in phila Pa and Alphie McCullough was murdered sticking up for a trans sister.
I like the new subject line. Thanks.
Some of the guys in my men's group have done drag. Nobody seems to have a problem with it. Some of the men are very, uh, nelly. Nobody has a problem with it, and we even joke about it in a very friendly way.
One of the most affected ones was really obnoxious about a trans guy who came to our group for a little while. And I kept thinking, "But SURELY you must know what it's like to have people hate on you...after all, you're so...OBVIOUS!"
I guess I probably shouldn't call him "Shirley," even if he IS obvious. ;D
I think the gays have more problems with MTFs than FTMs thats for sure.. they probably hate the idea we don't have a penis anymore.. I have noticed they liked non ops and even pre ops way better than post ops MTF
to tell you the turth i used to dislike gay people that was before i found out i was Transsexual cuz it just hit me one day like when you where trying to fit in and your mind goes into lockdown but you can still remmer what you are i thankful for this site it show me what i turey was sorry for going off topic for a bit but the reason i disliked gay people was before i was scared of acting deffent from my firends. no im kind of scared of people xD anyhow what i am trying to say is gays dont hate us they just dont understand that we are no one person we are not some fad we are all diffent i did not think gays where people sign im not good at explaining my self T_T i was bullyed once when i was younger someone was calling me a sissy and all beacuse of how i acted and they tought i might be lesser then them anyhow at that time i felt if i was be treated and when we are kids we dont think for otherselfs like in a gay bar they all know eachother and say a few of them are very opan about hateing MTF's then the others migth belive that it is the right for to do they are mostly miss infomartion most gay people are allright if you talk about your views and their... sorry if i am wrong i just know how humans acted i love/hate them all ^_^ as a race* like cats and dogs! or sheep? * but i love them as people kind of hard to unstand if i am being to closed mind plz tell me.
i speak from my mind its not really planed out im kind of a cowrd when it comes to these things i allso forgot i am sorry if i hurt anyones feels with this posts.
In my personal experience... Some gays have been nice and don't take issue with trans people...
But also some have been even meaner than straight people...
I totally get where everyone is coming from. In some places where drag shows are well-publicized in the gay community (like Nashville), transsexuals seem to be a lot more accepted. However, I've been places with a very strong, proud gay community where transsexuals were treated much like you experienced in that club. I've seen GLBT discussion boards where people argued that transsexuals were just confused and couldn't admit they were gay.
I think it breaks down to overall ignorance of who we are and what we're going through. Of the GLBT community, we're the only letter that doesn't specifically deal with sexuality. By changing our biological gender, we're messing with something that is ingrained into our psyche by society from the day that we're born. That is something that most people will never personally challenge about themselves. So, when we do challenge it, the enigmatic puzzle of the "why?" is inconceivable to someone who hasn't had those desires.
Quote from: n00bsWithBoobs on January 24, 2011, 10:35:11 PM
I totally get where everyone is coming from. In some places where drag shows are well-publicized in the gay community (like Nashville), transsexuals seem to be a lot more accepted. However, I've been places with a very strong, proud gay community where transsexuals were treated much like you experienced in that club. I've seen GLBT discussion boards where people argued that transsexuals were just confused and couldn't admit they were gay.
I think it breaks down to overall ignorance of who we are and what we're going through. Of the GLBT community, we're the only letter that doesn't specifically deal with sexuality. By changing our biological gender, we're messing with something that is ingrained into our psyche by society from the day that we're born. That is something that most people will never personally challenge about themselves. So, when we do challenge it, the enigmatic puzzle of the "why?" is inconceivable to someone who hasn't had those desires.
That was very inspiring to read, thanks.
I think there re a lot of issues between gay and lesbian people and 'TG" the common denominator is rejection by mainstream straights, but that is about it. We are talking chalk and cheese.
I'm very happy mixing with gay, lesbian, straight and anyone else in between or whatever. But others aren't. I know lesbians who totally hate gay guys and vis versa. I was kissed and hugged by a gay guy my first time out, when I was trembling like a jelly. He said kind words. A true Gentleman. I go out often with a lesbian lady whose partner doesn't like me, but we get over it.
I think sometimes we think the melting pot will bring everyone together.
No it won't.
I also think that is why places like this are so fantastic, yes, we have problems but we are a melting pot of similar thinking people.
Tolerance, such a simple concept. Such a difficult application.
Cindy
Quote from: CindyJames on January 25, 2011, 03:19:18 AM
Tolerance, such a simple concept. Such a difficult application.
Ain't that the truth!
I think we often find an opposite attractive, but we are repelled by something that we see as a subtle variation.
In other words something A LOT different is coded as entirely "other" and good... but something A LITTLE different is coded as deviant and a threat.
So a gay man might have a problem if he perceived an MtF as still being male and identifies with that person, and sees others treating her as female. The gay male wants to be seen a MALE and thus might worry that someone outside looking at him will assume that he also is female. So it is important to him the everyone KNOWS that this "person" is a MALE. There must be no confusion at the edges. Once male always male, then there can be no danger of someone questioning his own sex.
We all have things which trigger our insecurities about ourselves. For years my slight problem area was ->-bleeped-<-s - because I recognised something of myself in them yet at the same time they were different enough from me to make me feel VERY uncomfortable around them in case some ignorant person confused me with them. Those feeling of discomfort could, if I didn't be careful, become hostility if I felt that someone was incorrectly trying to tell me that that the two groups were in fact exactly the same! We're not, there are important differences.
That is not a criticism of ->-bleeped-<-s by the way, they have as much right to enjoy their lives as anyone. I work very hard not to let my feelings of uncomfortableness translate into any prejudice or hostility, but because I recognise that discomfort in myself I can at least understand how someone else could have the same feeling of unease about me.
When it comes down to it we all have our insecurities. Best thing is not to take it personally.
Well spoken Jenny.
I have many Gay and Lesbian friends. One of my dearest friends is Gay, flaming Gay, and is drop dead gorgeous and I have often joked "If you ever want to switch sides ...." ;) to which he replied "Not a chance! I am TOTALLY Gay and you are TOTALLY girl so it ain't gonna happen!"
As Jenny stated, we (transsexual) are different and grouping us with sexual orientations and fetishes is NOT going to help. Gays and Lesbians are no different than straight people when it comes to their link between their genitals and their brain, a link they feel is natural and immutable. But to accept us, they have to acknowledge that the "link" isn't as secure as they believed. That is a tall order for anyone.
I think ignorance is a big factor here and that the solution is not to throw a hissy fit and yell and scream or split away, but to calmly talk and educate and share and such.
The local queer group (I'm just going to use that now, cause we use "hinsegin" which means "the other kind" but is often translated as queer and just refers to "not a heterosexual and cisgender person") is very open to information and we educate each other, talk about our differences, and so on.
I don't know what came first, talking or being open, the two support and encourage one another.
Quote from: KillBelle on January 24, 2011, 01:56:57 PM
1. (Some) Gays REALLY dislike trans women
I probably wouldn't like them, so the feeling would be mutual.
I think that a lot of the problem stems from Blanchard and his demarcation of a particular group as "homosexual transsexuals." Due in part to his research, a sizable public body considers transwomen attracted to men to simply be men who were unable to come to terms with being gay, and chose to masquerade as women. An identifying gay man might respond with animosity for two reasons; the transwoman choosing not to "side" with the gay men is, in effect, hurting his side by reducing their influence, and relative accessibility. The way beleagured minorities gain power is by standing together and showing strength, and he might interpret trans people as a detraction from the overall power of the group with whom he feels that they should identify.
I think that the second reason is downright silly, but a gay ex-friend of mine has expressed this notion, and it deserves mention. He tried to convey to me that he personally saw transwomen as being gay men who weren't in the closet out of fear of reprisal (which they would clearly receive in their displayed role,) but out of homophobia. That is, transwomen weren't women who liked men, they were men who liked men and didn't believe in homosexuality.
Quote from: long.897 on January 25, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
I think that a lot of the problem stems from Blanchard and his demarcation of a particular group as "homosexual transsexuals." Due in part to his research, a sizable public body considers transwomen attracted to men to simply be men who were unable to come to terms with being gay, and chose to masquerade as women. An identifying gay man might respond with animosity for two reasons; the transwoman choosing not to "side" with the gay men is, in effect, hurting his side by reducing their influence, and relative accessibility. The way beleagured minorities gain power is by standing together and showing strength, and he might interpret trans people as a detraction from the overall power of the group with whom he feels that they should identify.
I think that the second reason is downright silly, but a gay ex-friend of mine has expressed this notion, and it deserves mention. He tried to convey to me that he personally saw transwomen as being gay men who weren't in the closet out of fear of reprisal (which they would clearly receive in their displayed role,) but out of homophobia. That is, transwomen weren't women who liked men, they were men who liked men and didn't believe in homosexuality.
Many gay men are just jelous that a TS woman can get a straight man and they can't
Quote from: KillBelle on January 24, 2011, 02:21:24 PM
i meant we still face discrimination in the LGBT community sorry...i should have rephrased that! =]
Oh yes you are quite right about that. The "T" is usually only on there for the appearance of a broader base of power. But I personally think it is a sham. Really, the acceptance of T people is, IMHO, about the same among the LGB community as it is among the general population. They just don't understand this at all. And they don't particularly care to. Most think we are all drag queens or something. I honestly get more acceptance from straight girlfriends.
Kristi
In regards to the original post, you do have to know that if you walk about in drag, and by drag I mean the exaggerated theatrical kind, even in San Francisco, expect some rubbernecking. I have personally never had problems with the LGB scene. There is some discrimination, not from inclusion in events, but more from the content. I was in the LGBT (and however many more letters they've added since then) club in college. The main thing I noticed was that there were almost no events related to trans issues.
if you walk about in drag, and by drag I mean the exaggerated theatrical kind, even in San Francisco, expect some rubbernecking
Isn't that the point in the first place?
And, like other things, it's far from being a monolith. So, this person agreed to go to to a gay bar with me here in Castro, yeah, fine, but which one? One like Twin Peaks were older gay guys who have that musty "I'm going to die soon" grandpa smell on them, or a poseur leather bar (because the real leather bars are down in SOMA), one of those 'we only like very young, very thin gay men, and it helps to be white too' places? A HOT mess- a whole 6'4, big hair, big attitude, at least 6 layers of makeup, 5 inch stilettos, tight clothes with her great breasts of wonder fighting its way out of her corset is going to make them sit up and notice you even at Aunt Charlie's or Divas, if it was some reserved, feel-like-I'm-fixin-to-die bar, I'm sure they resented the theatrical intrusion on their quietly drinking themselves to death scene.
I think a lot of the 'hate' is centered around the fact that there's a big lack of education when it comes to trans issues in the LGBQ community - similarly to how there's a lack of education when it comes to LGBQ issues in the heterosexual community.
Heck, there are gay people who don't like gay people! And even trans people who don't like gay people.
I do find that the younger generation (college-age and below) is much more accepting of Trans issues than the older generation (late-30s and above). My college group does a lot of Trans related programs and we've got several trans members - but the group downtown, which is made up of mostly middle-aged adults, actually shut down a reading group a few years back because they did not want to include Trans folks. Hopefully as younger people start growing up, things will change.
Quote from: n00bsWithBoobs on January 24, 2011, 10:35:11 PM
I've seen GLBT discussion boards where people argued that transsexuals were just confused and couldn't admit they were gay.
I've seen this line of thinking applied to bisexuals as well.
Quote from: tekla on January 25, 2011, 09:26:30 AM
And, like other things, it's far from being a monolith. So, this person agreed to go to to a gay bar with me here in Castro, yeah, fine, but which one? One like Twin Peaks were older gay guys who have that musty "I'm going to die soon" grandpa smell on them, or a poseur leather bar (because the real leather bars are down in SOMA), one of those 'we only like very young, very thin gay men, and it helps to be white too' places? A HOT mess- a whole 6'4, big hair, big attitude, at least 6 layers of makeup, 5 inch stilettos, tight clothes with her great breasts of wonder fighting its way out of her corset is going to make them sit up and notice you even at Aunt Charlie's or Divas, if it was some reserved, feel-like-I'm-fixin-to-die bar, I'm sure they resented the theatrical intrusion on their quietly drinking themselves to death scene.
This is a great observation. Time and place definitely has an affect on un/acceptance.
Quote from: tekla on January 25, 2011, 09:26:30 AM
if you walk about in drag, and by drag I mean the exaggerated theatrical kind, even in San Francisco, expect some rubbernecking
Isn't that the point in the first place?
A HOT mess- a whole 6'4, big hair, big attitude, at least 6 layers of makeup, 5 inch stilettos, tight clothes with her great breasts of wonder fighting its way out of her corset is going to make them sit up and notice you even at Aunt Charlie's or Divas, if it was some reserved, feel-like-I'm-fixin-to-die bar, I'm sure they resented the theatrical intrusion on their quietly drinking themselves to death scene.
The description of the behavior of this individual leads me to believe that she wanted to find a place to be accepted. Let's consider some key points:
a) She entered alone
b) She seemed to have a big attitude
c) She wore tight, sexy, revealing clothing
d) She took a lot of time to put herself together
e) She left after a very short time because of how she was being treated
f) She had been taking hormones for awhile
From the above observations, I would be inclined to think that she went to a gay bar because she felt that of all the places she could go, that would be the one place where she might be accepted. She was dressed to impress and wanted to show off her hard-earned assets. A woman doesn't necessarily show off her assets because she wants to be seen as a slut, but because she likes to feel desired. That boosts her self-esteem. The attitude could have just as easily been her attempt at showing confidence when she's really insecure about herself. It could also be a self-defense mechanism because she's experienced that kind of reaction to her before. Despite the attitude, she left shortly after being utterly humiliated. Had she really been a confident bitch-diva in heels, she would have stayed just to spite them all.
Maybe I'm completely wrong about this woman. She could have just been looking to stir things up. Maybe she chose the wrong venue or didn't know how else to get attention from men. It sounds like she lacked the common sense to understand her surroundings and how her community handles the transgendered. Regardless, I don't think it's right to treat people that way. Were it me in the original poster's place, I would have stuck up for the scorned woman because I can stand that kind of ignorant intolerance about as much as I can stand listening to Christian redneck Republican southerners preach to me. However, I understand not getting involved, too. I just find it overwhelmingly sad that those gay men felt it was their prerogative to treat another human being in such a manner. For shame, homosexuals!
All the bars in the Castro, and there are at least 10 that I can think of right off hand, are gay bars.
Sounds like the dress code is, come as you are. Just don't be flamboyant.
The old, when in Rome rule appears to have been broken.
Mix in the alcohol and that easily explains the reaction of the patrons of said bar.
Yeah, but the 'you can't come in UNLESS you're flamingly flamboyant' bar is most likely just across the street.
Quote from: long.897 on January 25, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
I think that a lot of the problem stems from Blanchard and his demarcation of a particular group as "homosexual transsexuals." Due in part to his research, a sizable public body considers transwomen attracted to men to simply be men who were unable to come to terms with being gay, and chose to masquerade as women. An identifying gay man might respond with animosity for two reasons; the transwoman choosing not to "side" with the gay men is, in effect, hurting his side by reducing their influence, and relative accessibility. The way beleagured minorities gain power is by standing together and showing strength, and he might interpret trans people as a detraction from the overall power of the group with whom he feels that they should identify.
I think that the second reason is downright silly, but a gay ex-friend of mine has expressed this notion, and it deserves mention. He tried to convey to me that he personally saw transwomen as being gay men who weren't in the closet out of fear of reprisal (which they would clearly receive in their displayed role,) but out of homophobia. That is, transwomen weren't women who liked men, they were men who liked men and didn't believe in homosexuality.
You may think it's silly, but you'd be amazed at the amount of homophobia that pops up among trans people. Obviously, as a trans person, I don't think the homophobia is the
reason people transition - but to a gay cis person who's attuned to signs of homophobia but not completely trans-informed, it might seem realyl plausible as an explanation.
Quote from: long.897 on January 25, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
I think that a lot of the problem stems from Blanchard and his demarcation of a particular group as "homosexual transsexuals." Due in part to his research, a sizable public body considers transwomen attracted to men to simply be men who were unable to come to terms with being gay, and chose to masquerade as women. An identifying gay man might respond with animosity for two reasons; the transwoman choosing not to "side" with the gay men is, in effect, hurting his side by reducing their influence, and relative accessibility. The way beleagured minorities gain power is by standing together and showing strength, and he might interpret trans people as a detraction from the overall power of the group with whom he feels that they should identify.
I think that the second reason is downright silly, but a gay ex-friend of mine has expressed this notion, and it deserves mention. He tried to convey to me that he personally saw transwomen as being gay men who weren't in the closet out of fear of reprisal (which they would clearly receive in their displayed role,) but out of homophobia. That is, transwomen weren't women who liked men, they were men who liked men and didn't believe in homosexuality.
I can understand a lot of this reasoning. Equally, a lot of the motives and feelings behind it.
We tend to be associated with the gay set because we tend to be seen as a variation on the gay notion.
For my own part, I knew I was female long before I knew anything about physiocal attraction or experienced it.
But this indicates that many are still attemptig to come to terms with the whole transgender notion.
Many of us will recall a time when there was similar rationale toward gay people. That they were men who lacked the confidence to find a girlfriend. That they were men, stuck at the anal stage of their development. That they were men who were cowards and didn't want to fight. That they were sick, preverted individuals, fixated on bottoms and were a danger to anyone or any animal that had a bottom.
These arguments, attempting to explain and dismiss transgender are sometimes joined by notions of preversions, including being a danger to children.
I'm pretty sure these will eventually die away.
I remember in the 60's when my neighbor was in the local state hospital for being gay and i was there for wearing womens clothes. It took another almost 10 yrs for gays not to be considered mentally ill. Its amazing how times have changed yet we are still listed as being some sort of mental illness with a need to resolve our problem with surgery and transitioning if the Dr approves.
When put in the situation described by the OP, I always stand up for the victim.
Often the obvious 'victim' is not the real victim.
Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2011, 09:15:56 PM
Often the obvious 'victim' is not the real victim.
Are you questioning my judgement?
I know, it's a long line, but don't worry there symbol girl (BTW Prince did that trip a decade ago at least), I brought a full rucksack of provisions, a grill, two full coolers, and a double-wide RV so I can handle the wait.
Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2011, 09:29:55 PM
I know, it's a long line, but don't worry there symbol girl (BTW Prince did that trip a decade ago at least), I brought a full rucksack of provisions, a grill, two full coolers, and a double-wide RV so I can handle the wait.
What?
Uncalled for Tekla. No need to make remarks about peoples ID.
And Damn Vexing, you got an old Lesbian's heart beating a little quicker.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 26, 2011, 09:35:37 PM
Uncalled for Tekla. No need to make remarks about peoples ID.
And Damn Vexing, you got an old Lesbian's heart beating a little quicker.
;D
P.S. I had a dream last night that I went with you for your SRS. I like positive dreams like that!
from your dreams to the gods ears. ;)
I wonder what Freud would say about this. :D Dreams can tell us very interesting things about us.
I've never been a part of the LGBT community, so I don't experience any discrimination from anyone who so happens to be gay. People can be mean, and it doesn't matter what background they are from.
Okay..... back to the subject at hand... I could care less if gay folks, strait folks or unicycle roller derby chimps like me or not :laugh:
Quote from: In Limbo... on January 26, 2011, 09:47:55 PM
I wonder what Freud would say about this. :D Dreams can tell us very interesting things about us.
That deep down I'm a gooey, loveable pushover, not the acerbic curmudgeon I make myself out to be.
Kinda like a female version of Dr. House.
The entire issue here is really one, not of rights, but of decorum. If you wanted to start a mosh pit at a Slayer show, I'd be all like 'more power to you.' If you wanted to do it at Celtic Thunder or Adam Lambert I'd have to have security 'escort' you from the building. If you want to wear a set of khaki pants and a colorful rep tie, try the yacht club, if you like your colors on your back stitched on leather with a huge skull and a set of black tipped wings on the front, perhaps the yacht club is not the place for you.
But it does require a basic notion of appropriate social behavior to understand that.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on January 26, 2011, 09:56:20 PM
Okay..... back to the subject at hand... I could care less if gay folks, strait folks or unicycle roller derby chimps like me or not :laugh:
I'd be devastated if unicycle roller derby chimps didn't like me! They generally like everyone!
My experience of gay people, lots of nice people, some arseholes, bout the same as everyone else really ::)
Quote from: MillieB on January 26, 2011, 10:07:30 PM
My experience of gay people, lots of nice people, some arseholes, bout the same as everyone else really ::)
Zactly.
Perhaps the advice best given to the OP is "Gay people aren't the problem; you need to stop hanging out with ->-bleeped-<-s."
Quote from: MillieB on January 26, 2011, 10:07:30 PM
I'd be devastated if unicycle roller derby chimps didn't like me! They generally like everyone!
Okay I confess... It hurts pretty deep when that happens :'(
Quote from: ▼Ξ✖ on January 26, 2011, 10:10:12 PM
Zactly.
Perhaps the advice best given to the OP is "Gay people aren't the problem; you need to stop hanging out with ->-bleeped-<-s."
And you wonder why we arent friends ;D
Anyway, you obviously did not read. I said i met them at the bar and the invited us over for a drink.
Quote from: KillBelle on January 26, 2011, 10:19:25 PM
And you wonder why we arent friends ;D
I do? Since when?
Ladies, lets just drop it please.
Quote from: ▼Ξ✖ on January 26, 2011, 10:21:35 PM
I do? Since when?
*yawn* i really do not have time for this. i need to get my nails done.
Quote from: KillBelle on January 26, 2011, 10:27:45 PM
i need to get my nails done.
Me too!
I'm gonna do them with this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_exNvffpBYcU%2FTBwtzoDqHcI%2FAAAAAAAADGg%2F598o3JsnenU%2Fs1600%2FH51%2BOPI%2BHongKong%2B-%2BPearl%2BOf%2BWisdom.jpg&hash=ac9e0acede7a87336f17f4329858d9592a95fb9c)
Though I'm into the whole rainbow thing lately, so contemplating doing them all metallic primary colours (from OPI of course).
Rainbow colors are a little tacky to be honest... :o
Quote from: KillBelle on January 26, 2011, 10:44:55 PM
Rainbow colors are a little tacky to be honest... :o
Some of us like them. If it isn't your thing, that's cool. If it is that is cool too. To each their own.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 26, 2011, 10:46:41 PM
Some of us like them. If it isn't your thing, that's cool. If it is that is cool too. To each their own.
I know, it was just my opinion sorry... i think it would look lovely on Cait. <3
Quote from: KillBelle on January 26, 2011, 10:44:55 PM
Rainbow colors are a little tacky to be honest... :o
Only on tacky people ;)
Lmao. word.
Wouldn't Forrest Gump say, "tacky is, as ...."
Quote from: tekla on January 26, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
The entire issue here is really one, not of rights, but of decorum. If you wanted to start a mosh pit at a Slayer show, I'd be all like 'more power to you.' If you wanted to do it at Celtic Thunder or Adam Lambert I'd have to have security 'escort' you from the building. If you want to wear a set of khaki pants and a colorful rep tie, try the yacht club, if you like your colors on your back stitched on leather with a huge skull and a set of black tipped wings on the front, perhaps the yacht club is not the place for you.
But it does require a basic notion of appropriate social behavior to understand that.
I'm a Computer Science major. My coevals range from mildly socially awkward to functional autistics most of the time, and to many of those kinds of people (i.e. computer nerds), decorum and notions of appropriate social behavior are completely foreign. The problem with the first example you posed was starting a mosh pit outside of a Slayer concert, which is an active, violent, borderline offensive act. You're aggressively interacting with others around you. That isn't even close to what this woman was doing. Secondly, every single person in these forums has been that "colors on your back stitched on leather with a huge skull" person visiting the yacht club in some form or another. That's one of the pitfalls of being transgendered.
I guess all this rhetoric is moot anyway. I feel empathy for the woman in the story and I suppose it really bothers me that there are people even in our community, on this forum, who look down their noses at her.
Quote from: n00bsWithBoobs on January 26, 2011, 11:54:42 PM
I'm a Computer Science major. My coevals range from mildly socially awkward to functional autistics most of the time, and to many of those kinds of people (i.e. computer nerds), decorum and notions of appropriate social behavior are completely foreign. The problem with the first example you posed was starting a mosh pit outside of a Slayer concert, which is an active, violent, borderline offensive act. You're aggressively interacting with others around you. That isn't even close to what this woman was doing. Secondly, every single person in these forums has been that "colors on your back stitched on leather with a huge skull" person visiting the yacht club in some form or another. That's one of the pitfalls of being transgendered.
I guess all this rhetoric is moot anyway. I feel empathy for the woman in the story and I suppose it really bothers me that there are people even in our community, on this forum, who look down their noses at her.
You probably might have needed to be there to know what i am talking about, she walked into that bar with a LOT of attitude, and wanting to pick fights with everybody. People were looking at her not because she was trans (i think people could care less) but because of the way she was dressed...very inappropriately (her giant DDs with her nipples poking out of the corset). I personally thought it was awesome because i was mesmerized with all the bad plastic surgery haha, but she caught people staring at her and then was telling random people off and mouthing profanity to random gays (this was before the gays at my table said anything to her). I just wanted to sink in my chair and prayed for it to be over.
Considering the psychological issues that often go hand-in-hand with being trans, I would be careful to keep my judgements of this woman's motivations to myself, until I had more of a grasp of her personality.
I remember reading in Georgina Beyer's autobiography that she had a put-on attitude and would look for fights with anyone who looked her way, because it was a defensive, pre-emptive mechanism that stopped people messing with '->-bleeped-<-s' as they were known to have bad attitudes.
It always saddens me when one trans woman judges another trans woman in this manner.
Quote from: ▼Ξ✖ on January 26, 2011, 10:32:38 PM
Me too!
I'm gonna do them with this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_exNvffpBYcU%2FTBwtzoDqHcI%2FAAAAAAAADGg%2F598o3JsnenU%2Fs1600%2FH51%2BOPI%2BHongKong%2B-%2BPearl%2BOf%2BWisdom.jpg&hash=ac9e0acede7a87336f17f4329858d9592a95fb9c)
Though I'm into the whole rainbow thing lately, so contemplating doing them all metallic primary colours (from OPI of course).
ooh the pale translucent ones with a bit of sparkle were always my favourite. I've never worn nail polish in public, but I'm pretty tempted to do it the next time I go out dancing. But then I can't tease my friend about his sparkle lipgloss and finishing powder...sigh.
"wanting to pick fights with everyone"
I would have thrown her out right there. You play with fire and you tend to get burned.
Quote from: KillBelle on January 27, 2011, 12:19:06 AM
. People were looking at her not because she was trans (i think people could care less)
::looks up at thread title::
::looks at quote::
::scratches head::