Susan's Place Transgender Resources

No, trans is an adjective to me, it describes a part of what I am, but not the entirety.
For example, I am a white woman, a geek woman, a tall woman, and a trans woman. It's just a descriptor of one small aspect of me.
I am several nouns; I am a human, I am a person, I am a red-head, I am an artist.
But I am not 'a trans'  :)

Quote from: heatherrose on January 31, 2011, 06:48:03 PM
Why do you feel it neccesary to identify yourself as a Trans Woman and not just a Woman?

They're not mutually exclusive. They're the same thing.
i.e. cis women are women, trans women are women.
Being a trans woman IS being just a woman  :)

Trans, to me, is as Cait said and adjective.  Just as a white woman, an Aries woman, a pagan woman.  Trans is a condition that can be corrected through medical transitioning.

I am a woman, first and foremost.  The trans part is just another way of describing myself, when it is needed.

I've found more people in the trans community use trans/gender(ed) as an adjective and people outside the community use it as a noun or verb.
My grandmother thinks I'm transgendering, lol.

The only thing I aspire to be is myself.  Nothing else.  I don't really care what people call it.

I already have one label:  VeryGnawty.  And even that is one too many.

Quote from: heatherrose on January 31, 2011, 07:27:59 PM
Perhaps in our little slice of cybersphere, as we toss trans-ideas back and forth and stroke each others trans-egos, this might be true.
But in the real world, identifying oneself as hyphen anything deliniates one as part of a specific and separate group.

I have never identified as a hyphen-anything  :) 
Pedantics aside, I only identify as a trans woman when it's relevant. Just as a black woman identifies as a black woman when it's relevant, a Jewish woman identifies as a Jewish woman when it's relevant and a cis woman identifies as a cis woman when it's relevant.
I hope that clears things up for you  :)

Quote from: heatherrose on January 31, 2011, 07:38:21 PM
I am sure we can all agree what "white" is as well as "geek" and "tall" but what IS "trans"?

The descriptor for a person with a gender identity at odds with their coercively assigned birth sex  :)

In truth it's all a construct of each and others need to define, identify, and classify in order to order our worlds.  When I say our I mean everyone in this world.  We, each in our own existence, each with our own juxtaposition, we struggle to define ourselves.  Sometimes against what others would see us, sometimes against what we see us.  And then quite naturally we rebuke that which conflicts our sense of self both internally and externally to ourselves.  Every single living creature is guilty of that one to one degree or another.  You may think it cruel but it is true.  Think about the scale and magnitude of that systemic problem because it's burnt into each of our brains and only consciously can any of us subdue it. 

I have spent my entire life being painfully aware of myself and my incongruence.  I have peacefully settled on simply understanding, accepting, and at times forgiving myself.  I am a human,  I am a person, and although I look nothing like what anyone would expect I am very much a girl.

Kyndra
XXOO

Kyndra

Quote from: heatherrose on January 31, 2011, 09:23:35 PM
White is the color/ethnicity of the woman,
geek is the hobby/occupation of the woman,
tall is the stature of the woman
and trans is the ???? of the woman?

The descriptor for a person with a gender identity at odds with their coercively assigned birth sex  :)
Just because it's not a simple description, doesn't make it any less valid.

QuoteIf it is believed that I am making much ado over nothing,
why do some raise their hackles (as I know they do) at the mere thought
of someone attacking "their right" to identify themselves as trans
(which is not my intention)

I don't believe any hackles have been raised at all; this subject is rather a non-issue for most; it's kind of like discussing whether you want to be called white or Caucasian.
I also don't think anyone here sees a discussion on terminology to be an attack  :)

QuoteOther than in forums such as this and in a medical setting, when would it be
relevant for a woman to identify herself as "trans" or for that matter "cis"

Whenever she feels that it is relevant  :)

QuoteIf one is determined to be accepted as just any other woman, one negates their
own goal by identifying as anything other that just an other woman.

Well, there's the flaw in your reasoning, this quote directly suggests you view the term 'trans woman' as something other than 'woman'. One can identify as a trans woman and still be a 'woman'.
The terms are not mutually exclusive; you are just as 'real' a woman whether you use the trans descriptor or not.
Really, the issue here is that you don't seem to view 'trans woman' as being as authentic as 'woman'.
Which is buying into the prejudices expressed by the people who oppress us and hate us.
It's important to break down that perception of non-authenticity.
As I said, a black woman is a woman.
A Jewish woman is a woman
A vegetarian woman is a woman
An octogenarian woman is a a woman
A necrophobic woman is a woman
A homosexual woman is a woman

So why can't a trans woman be a woman?  :)
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

I don't see myself as a third gender, I'm just a guy. I have the unfortunate circumstance of having a misalignment between body and soul. The trans term is the time of correction.

I do think that some see themselves as a third gender, sort of like the androgynes.

Unlike you ladies, I can't get as close to normal as you can, but I'm going to get as close as I can.

I get the feeling I didn't answer that very well. I'm not sure how to make my point clear however.

Quote from: perlita85 on January 31, 2011, 10:49:55 PM
I never heard the term cis-woman outside our community

It's in common use in feminist circles, inclusive groups and any group that recognises all forms oppression  :)

Well i call myself male.
But until i can fix certain physical parts of me that are basically birth defects and are personally interfering with my life as a male, i'm also a trans-male.

I guess one could kind of see it like how one would call a horse with a hurt leg a lame horse.
Of course no one really would go out of their way to say its a brown, 5 year old, bronco or w.e.,
they only mention 'lame' since it's a certain problem with the horse at the moment that requires attention to be fixed or cared for.
(i.e. only called a trans-man since theres something that needs to be fixed. basically i cant have a normal life until its fixed. just like the horse cant really just go on racing or anything else much until he's helped. though obviously those are different concepts, but just for an example)

i dont know if that made any type of sense that someone else could understand...but i guess thats sort of how i see it.
Once i get srs, i will no longer be trans. i can just call myself male, seeing as my physical defect (like the lameness of the horse) is corrected, now i am a plain old male. (of course this is relating to me. i know there are transguys out there that are comfortable with themselves now and might not even want srs and feel they can call themselves male right then and there. but they have their own explanation of course.)

wow, okay anyways...im done rambling.
(note to self, dont respond to semi-complicated questions when you're half-asleep, lol)

Quote from: heatherrose on January 31, 2011, 11:48:17 PM
What exactly about the woman is the descriptor "Trans" describing?

That she has a gender identity different to the one expected of her when she was coercively assigned her birth sex.

QuoteI am by no means questioning the validity of the decriptor nor an
individuals right to embroider it across the seat of their sweat shorts.
As a seven year old, I did not sob across the kitchen table from my Mama,
"I should have been born a ->-bleeped-<-" 

A black woman is a woman that was born with a virgina
A Jewish woman is a woman that was born with a virgina
A vegetarian woman is a woman that was born with a virgina
An octogenarian woman is a a woman that was born with a virgina
A necrophobic woman is a woman that was born with a virgina
A homosexual woman is a woman that was born with a virgina

One is quite capable of being a woman without a vagina, just as one is quite capable of being a man WITH a vagina. Genitals do not define gender.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by fixating on genitalia. Could you explain it to me please?
It would be much appreciated :)

What is the point of this post?

A woman is a woman, a man is a man, an androgyne is an androgyne. . What sexuality they display is their's to decide. What primary and secondary sexual organs they have is due to genetics, surgery or magic.  I'm not big on magic.

I don't mind the discussion but HR you are getting close to being argumentative for no reason IMHO.

Cindy

OK

I'm just a little girl trying to be me and stop ->-bleeped-<- from flying from every direction. I don't struggle. I have no concerns and yes my life is  so rosy it shines a bright blue.

It's sounds as if you are doing it tough.

You are a friend. If you want  to hit me do so.

Sorry, I'm in one of those that cycles,  which is pleasing and horror at the same time.
I think there should be a Sue warning, don't argue with me at TOM, I'll rip them off and feed them to anything.

Ahh who the f**k suggested cramps,

I feel better when I've killed some men


Cindy

Quote from: heatherrose on February 01, 2011, 06:16:37 AM
A "trans-woman" cannot "just be a woman".

That's where we are going to have to disagree.
A trans woman can be 'just a woman'.
Please give me a reason why a trans woman cannot be 'just a woman'.

QuoteShe must make the decision that she is not going to live in her
assigned gender and take steps to live as she chooses.

I'm confused here. You seem to be pushing for trans women to identify as plain 'women' but continually point out that trans women and cis women are different.
Don't you think that is rather counter-productive?

The second quote is more troubling, the use of decision and choice, I didn't just decide or choose to be a woman or to be trans or to be a lesbian, it doesn't help when our own community infuses that same "choice" language into discussions about what it means to be trans. Trans is an adjective, that, in my opinion, defines me less and less. During the early part of my transition, it was important to me because it tied me to a community and helped me to not feel alone. Now, it only serves to describe my medical history and it does little to describe or define who I am today.  I don't run from the term but it's not one that I use frequently any more. As for cis women identifying as cis, outside of some of those communities you mentioned most natal females probably never heard of cisgender, just as most straight people probably never heard of cissexual.

skipping to the end, plead ignorance if I'm repeating something someone else has said:

I've used and will continue to use "trans" as a shorthand descriptor  because it's a simple placeholder word for a broader concept and everyone i use it with knows what i mean.

I do not say "I am trans" in the sense of "I am a third gender" or "I am other"

But quite frankly, if I said even to my supportive friends (who are not transsexual) "I am a woman" they simply would not take it seriously. They understand the concept of being a person with a woman's mind and heart and spirit but an unfortunately disfigured body which looks male - but a person with a male body declaring "I'm a woman" would just seem silly to them. I traveled in that world long enough to know that.

And me saying it is not going to disabuse any significant number of them of that idea.

As for my own self-identification, I am a woman who has a condition, in need of a cure, that I colloquially refer to as "trans" or more properly, a condition known as being transsexual. I'm a firm believer in the school of thought that once physical transition is complete, one is not a transsexual anymore - she's been cured.

I really am not sure I have a point except to say that when it's necessary for me to discuss my situation (as in a job interview for instance) I really don't see a problem with saying "I'm trans" and i really don't think ANYONE sees this as an assertion of being "third gender" or anything similar.

Our identities are much more complex than just seeing ourselves as one thing vs. another, and our identities are not necessarily static. A big part of how we view ourselves depends on what the most salient aspects of our lives are at any particular moment in time. Then there's the issue of denial. If a gay person grows up in a deeply religious community and ends up denying that they're gay, then at that particular moment, they don't identify as gay. But perhaps later on they come to terms with being gay and thus identify as gay. Does this mean that they're not really gay because they didn't always identify as such? No, of course not. And maybe because there were such massive hurdles for that person to overcome in order to accept their homosexuality, they identify more as a gay person specifically, rather than a gay person incidentally. In other words, it's a more salient aspect of their identity because of particular hardships. The same can happen to someone who's trans. Our life experiences shape how we view ourselves. I'm a college student and 30 years old. While many of my classmates are also college students, I recognize that most of them have had entirely different life experiences than me because many of them come from middle class families while I did not. So for me, the identity of "college student" means something entirely different for me than it does for them. The same logic can apply to viewing oneself as trans or as a woman. Personally, I'm not going to pretend for a second that any ciswoman has had even remotely similar life experiences as me. They don't know what it's like to basically go through a second puberty at the age of 30 while going through college. And when they went through it, they had support from sisters, mothers, friends, etc. I don't have those things. Not to mention that their experience wasn't accompanied by feelings of gender dysphoria, nor did they have to hide it from their family the way that I do. I had no female friends growing up who were willing to show me how to apply make-up or how to style my hair in a particular way. My sisters certainly didn't include me in any of that. I wasn't even allowed to have long hair. I was forced by my family and community to behave like a "guy." Ciswomen don't experience this. So, why would I pretend for a second that ciswomen have had even remotely similar life experiences as me, when they obviously have not? Of course, maybe there are transwomen who have had life experiences more similar to what ciswomen experience. Good for them. You can expect that they would have, at least, a slightly different identity than me. But there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I think it's important that our society learns that the transcommunity is just as diverse as any other group of people. It will help eliminate harmful stereotypes.

Quote from: heatherrose on January 31, 2011, 06:18:19 PM
Do you consider yourself or aspire to be a member of a third sex,
a Trans, ->-bleeped-<-, T-girl/boy or any other T-variant?
If so, why?
If not, do you identify yourself using any of the above terms?
If so why?

Nope, I don't even like the term "trans" and it's variants. I'm just a woman with a medical condition, a kind of genetic defect. I don't even use the term unless it's the language I must use to explain things to people who need to know and who may not understand or misinterpret my explanation. "Trans" in a general sense typically means movement between two states or being in between two states. I'm not changing my sex/gender, I've always been female. Some people may not agree but I don't care. I accept only one definition of who I am -- my own.

Quote from: Caitj on February 01, 2011, 12:05:24 PM
Please give me a reason why a trans woman cannot be 'just a woman'.

Because current society won't let them/us.

Quote from: Caitj on February 01, 2011, 12:05:24 PM
You seem to be pushing for trans women to identify as plain 'women' but continually point out that trans women and cis women are different.
Don't you think that is rather counter-productive?

I think I understand the issue you have with this and generally I would agree, but it points to some important problems that those with this condition have. I'm sure if the rest of the country understood that I'm just a woman like all the others I'd have a job right now. Some of these differences are important because they affect our lives. They shouldn't, but they do. Hopefully one day that will change.

Quote from: perlita85 on February 03, 2011, 04:53:45 PM
I was not going to post an incident that happen t e recently, but it bears importance to this thread.

Due to reasons out my control my GID has become more public where i work. I have been presenting as a female, and nobody seems to care, most of the girls I know have been very supportive. Well, the other day this guy came and tried to put his hand in my breast, I am fast, so I move back and slap the "bejesus" out of his hand to which the big idiot said: "hey, I was just trying to see if they are real." I just look at him while considering where to hit, he next said: "are you a ->-bleeped-<-?" Everybody in the cafeteria was frozen! I said: "I am just a woman, and I am going to report you." He started to apologize but I left. As I was leaving a man I do not know said to me out loud: "I will vouch for you" to which a bunch of ladies said "me too." I immediately went to my boss and reported him as a sexual harasser for trying to touch me in a sexual manner.  He is currently facing a disciplinary hearing. My point is that I do not think I would have gotten much traction if I have gone after "my eight as a trans-woman"

As I was reading this, I got the the point where that scum tried to touch you. I thought of myself, in that position. I would have tried the compromise, diplomacy, calming the situation, being the doormat.

I can't begin to tell you how utterly proud I am of you.

The reaction you got from the others was amazing, totally justified and demonstrates that they are decent ordinary people. Not heros. Just ordinary pople who did the right thing that we all should do.

Thank you so much for sharing this.