Heath made a thread about getting more attention from gay/bi men and it had me thinking about something that I've discussed with one of my friends who is gay and (as far as I know) doesn't know I am trans.
I've noticed that I am more annoyed with women than I was before. I think because when I was living as a lesbian woman I tried not to make it completely obvious and had a lot of female friends. That seemed to make it easier to instantly gain trust with women. When women walked by me they didn't tend to give me a look and when I waited at a bus stop they would ask when the bus came.
Now it seems whenever I walk by women sometimes I will glance over for a second and then see that they have this look like they are thinking "ew why are you looking at me" kind of thing. Whenever I am out somewhere and am polite saying please and thank you most women are very short and "whatever" still, like they don't even buy it. And when I am walking down the street I hate being behind a girl because I can tell she is walking faster. There is this girl at my work who is a skinny blonde and all the guys want her and I could care less but she'll make conversation with all the guys but I find I keep it short because I don't want her to think I am drooling over her.
I feel like no matter where I go or what I do that women always assume I am hitting on them or trying to creep on them. It's really annoying. It's not like they are questioning if I am trans or not because I have facial hair and a male voice so I know it's not about that. Is it maybe that I look young and dress like a high school kid maybe? Is it just because I am a male in society and women are just like that? Do I look like all the other douche bags? Or am I really that much of a woman repeller? (Not that I want to attract women) I just don't want a "hello" to come across as "I want in your pants".
I get annoyed by women, because I don't understand them and the way they communicate. I just don't understand it even thought I was raised as a female. I think like a male so that is probably why. All the people who have hurt me deeply in life were female. Teachers, friends, family and exes and they were all women. Yeah some guys have upset me but we would wind up cussing eachother out and we would get over it.
I also get annoyed with them because the women around me try to treat me like "one of them", well the ones that know I am female do anyways. It is annoying as all get out. I don't look or act anything like them so what makes them think I want to be recognized as one? I very much enjoy their company but I am not a female.
Yeah I totally get that too. Some of my female friends who know about me and are mutal friends with my twin sister will be like "heyy lets have a girls night! ohh... but I guess you don't want to come... or do you?" like they feel weird, guilty or uncomfortable with leaving me out. If they saw me as a guy that wouldn't even be a question.
Quote from: Mr.Rainey on March 16, 2011, 12:11:54 AM
I get annoyed by women, because I don't understand them and the way they communicate. I just don't understand it even thought I was raised as a female. I think like a male so that is probably why.
Got you completely on that one lol. I found it a lot easier to listen to women bitch and complain and not say how i felt before T, but now my disinterest and irritation over female babble/bitchiness whatever it is, shows no matter how hard i try to hide it. My fiance is constantly getting on me about not listening to her or how I could at least pretend to care about this purse she wants to get. I love women but am finding it harder and harder to hang out with female friends versus male friends.
It's just part of being a guy.
Yeah that's true. It's just weird.
Thatman: hahahah my girlfriend does the exact same thing. I always thought it was a stereotype for guys not to listen but I've gotten so much worse about it.
I have a female friend at my work who is one that I can stand (besides my girlfriend). She is really open and says whatever she wants and isn't a snob. But she is also a bisexual who well "gets around". This causes problems because my girlfriend hates when I talk about her but then she will tell me to invite her over. It's stupid mind game crap. I have no interest in my friend and she doesn't know about me and doesn't hit on me or anything.
yeah what is up with the mind game ->-bleeped-<-? why the hell to women say one thing when they know that they mean another? I have NEVER done that ->-bleeped-<- even before transition, just the other day my girl read into something I said and I basically explained to her that I say wtf I mean period, but apparently I was kind of an ->-bleeped-<- about it lol. But i just dont get why they do that ->-bleeped-<-.
I know, I can't wrap my head around it.
I never did that either but it's funny how when we explain ->-bleeped-<- before girls never really said anything about it but now we are ->-bleeped-<-s.
My girlfriend has called me an ->-bleeped-<- more than I can count since I was about 1 year on T.
yeah i guess it just proves they think all guys are ->-bleeped-<-s lol. my mom even got me a shirt the says "I am an ->-bleeped-<-; if you don't want your feelings hurt don't talk to me". Everytime i turn around either my girl or my ma or some other female is telling me i'm an insensitive ->-bleeped-<-. Oh well, I'm a happy insensitive ->-bleeped-<- lol
This thread is hilarous. I can relate to you guys. I haven't started on T yet but I have a hard time understanding why women get mad over the littlest things. If they ask how they look, God forbid you say the wrong thing. You can't win. And if you don't compliment them on their hair when they just got it cut or permed or whatever - look out.
Troy
Quote from: Thatman on March 16, 2011, 12:37:40 AM
Everytime i turn around either my girl or my ma or some other female is telling me i'm an insensitive ->-bleeped-<-. Oh well, I'm a happy insensitive ->-bleeped-<- lol
Hahahah exactly. My girlfriend is actually moving out because "I don't pay enough attention to her". She wants to see how often I will go out of my way to see her now.
Quote from: TroyRyne on March 16, 2011, 12:40:14 AM
This thread is hilarous. I can relate to you guys. I haven't started on T yet but I have a hard time understanding why women get mad over the littlest things. If they ask how they look, God forbid you say the wrong thing. You can't win. And if you don't compliment them on their hair when they just got it cut or permed or whatever - look out.
Troy
Hahahah yeah. I just thought guys were full of crap when they said this stuff. But now I have a girlfriend who makes me feel exactly like they do.
I guess they will always going to be social tension between men & women, some women just dont trust men or vice versa , because of their history with them, its hard to gain that kind of trust when you have been burnt to many times.
QuoteI also get annoyed with them because the women around me try to treat me like "one of them", well the ones that know I am female do anyways. It is annoying as all get out. I don't look or act anything like them so what makes them think I want to be recognized as one? I very much enjoy their company but I am not a female.
Yeah i know. Its very frustracting when people try to force a gender identity on you. i don't know, but some mean spirited women will act like you are selling out to the other "team", abandoning them, and in turn they will act resentful and cold toward you for transitioning. Fortunately not all women are like this.
I don't know I think in my case its hard for them because even tho i was never "sensitive" I had the ability to show my emotions and since starting T im very non emotional, even when I want to be emotional lol. Sometimes it's kind of expected to cry and ->-bleeped-<- (like when my dog died) and i just cant. But I think you're right Marvel there will always be social tension between men and women no matter what we do. There is no one way to make a woman happy, cuz as soon as you do there will be something else to do. I love my girl and can't wait to make her my wife, even tho she drives me crazy and doesn't always get me. But she's been my rock for 8 years, so if she wants to call me an ->-bleeped-<-, so be it, doesn't hurt my feeling lol. I've told her if she's not happy i won't stop her from leaving but she said she's invested too much time in training me lol and for some reason she loves me so we'll take it day by day.
To no small degree your nOObs at playing a game that most of the guys around you have been learning to play since first grade. Girls never give more attention then they are receiving, you can bet on that, so if you want their attention, you have to work to get it. And to the degree that all the guys around you are playing it (even when they don't mean it), and you're standing back from the crowd just sort of watching - yeah, it's creepy.
Hahahahah oh no. If I ever become single again I am ffff to the ucked.
Quote from: tekla on March 16, 2011, 01:22:16 AM
And to the degree that all the guys around you are playing it (even when they don't mean it), and you're standing back from the crowd just sort of watching - yeah, it's creepy.
Wait, I thought it was the attention that was coming across as creepy, not the lack there of. That's it, I give up and am going to bed.
I've honestly never found it easy to listen to women bitch. There's just too many double-standards so many women perpetuate that I end up being bitter towards the whole lot of them in general, no doubt influenced by my trans-ness and hating the body I'm in.
I've never been able to relate or even barely get along with most women, to be honest.
Hahah nooo kidding. :| it's the mind games again.
When you pay attention to them they're like "ohhh you're soo funny ;) let's get togetherrrr" but then they just run to their friends and go "eeeww he's such a creep omg why does he like me??"
^Exactly, man. That's why I've always gotten along with guys better, if a guy doesn't like you it's going to be pretty apparent pretty fast. With most girls, you've got no ->-bleeped-<-ing clue WHATS going through their minds, so it leaves me constantly paranoid...
..Ah hell, I'm just paranoid in general, so that kind of invalidates my commentary on the subject lol.
Never had that problem as a dyke. But as soon as I transitioned, my girlfriend started calling me "->-bleeped-<-" a lot. Sometimes I probably deserved it, but other times I was just being the same ol' person I always was, just male-identified. She would assume I'd act like ->-bleeped-<- guys on TV once I started T, she really believes that this is how men are and it was rough to deal with.
(edited for clarity)
Well guys, it seems to me that the T is working.lol
hugs
annette( another annoying bitch)
Annette,
I am very sorry that this thread was offensive to you. I can only speak for myself, but I do not believe any of these things to be true about ALL women. I wasn't venting about women, I was venting about how there are things I can no longer do as a guy that I was once able to do as a girl. It's frustrating to me because I'm still ME, but when she began seeing me as a man she treated me completely differently, and it hurt. Not to say I was perfect, sometimes I did act like a stereotypical dude if I was insecure, but generally I was the same person and she saw me completely different. It was hurtful. But I suppose it comes with a new gender role.
Also a disclaimer for the guys: it is NOT worth losing her if she says you don't pay enough attention to her. When she leaves, you are really, REALLY going to wish you had listened and given her what she wanted. Take it from someone who knows. Go patch it up before it's too late.
@ annette
I really hope none of this offended you in anyway, that is not my intention at all. Simply put i don't have an interest in girly type things not that i ever did, just now i cant even really try to care because she does. and i don't understand why SOME females play the read between the lines thing. And as previously posted i feel like even some of the things that i have always done and said in the exact same way are being taken differently simply because I am a male. If you have any advice or insight into this it would be GREATLY appreciated. I want to make my fiance happy, but unfortunately I don't know what I need to do. She's not one to give me a straight answer if I were to ask. So again, I sincerely apologize if you were offended in anyway or if anyone else was for that matter. But advice is what I really need, from a female prospective which i apparently dont have lol. Thank you.
It's not about male or female advice. It's about knowing that individual person. That's the first and biggest mistake people make when trying to figure out the 'opposite sex.'
Some women wont give you a straight answer, but there are a lot of men like that too. Some people simply like to conform to ridiculous stereotypes but it doesn't strip away their individuality. And on that note, one of the reasons why women are wary of men is because it's been beaten into their brain that men often hurt and target women and they feel they have to protect themselves from that.
Communication is key, not the gender. If she wont give you a straight answer then there is a failure to communicate properly either on your end or hers.
Think of it this way... you're a man, right? You can't possibly speak for every man and you can only just regurgitate stereotypes that aren't often true. We're not all born with the same blueprint, we have varying interests, temperaments, personalities, etc... There is no one way to be a man or act like a man. The same is true for women.
I find most guys easier to talk to and understand. Girls are "flighty", like a cloud rather than a rock. Girls use metaphors and hidden meanings and many subtleties that I just don't get. Then again, guys do too, but not as much. A giggling gaggle of girls (sorry, I had to alliterate that) can be quite annoying, but a group of macho teenage guys can also be annoying. Then again, I'm an aspie, so I suppose it's simply a communication problem.
Some girls annoy me, most confuse me.
I find it annoying when, as mentioned in a previous thread, a couple of girls I know follow me to the toilet so they can gossip, generally about how horrible guys are. And speaking of womens toilets - why, why, WHY do women go in there and spray horrible body spray everywhere? It stinks, it makes me cough, it sticks in my mouth and at the back of my throat. It's disgusting. In fact - why does body spray even exist? It's not deoderant - it makes skin sticky and actually (in my opinion) makes sweat smell worse. It's not perfume, either. Bleh!
Woman clothes annoy me as well. I'm a really short guy. Guy clothes don't fit. I also don't have the money at the moment to find guy clothes that do fit. Why make the fly so short? Why such small pockets? Why do the majority of female cargos have no side pockets?! It seems that very little female clothing is even the slightest bit practical.
Girls want to include me in gossiping. They want to try and talk about guys, clothes and stuff I'm not bothered about. They get offended when I'm not too bothered, or if I take the side of the guy. For example, as mentioned in a previous thread, a girl I know was bitching horrifically about her sort-of boyfriend, simply because he'd sent her a really nice text. She complained that he was being too nice to her. She was asking how to deal with the nice text without "encouraging" that sort of behaviour - god forbid any guy be nice! The other lass there was telling her to ignore him, or just laugh at him. I pointed out that he was just being nice, and if she wasn't into that, then just to be honest with him, and that there was no need to be obviously nasty to the poor man. I was looked at as if I'd just grown three heads and kicked a puppy. What's wrong with honesty?
I just don't get why a lot of women seem to think guy = ->-bleeped-<-. I especially don't get why, when a guy is being nice, he's even more of an ->-bleeped-<-.
Bizarre. And I'm not even on T.
Quote from: PixieBoy on March 16, 2011, 05:37:36 AM
I find most guys easier to talk to and understand. Girls are "flighty", like a cloud rather than a rock. Girls use metaphors and hidden meanings and many subtleties that I just don't get.
Ehhh...I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe the reason I've disliked most of the girls I met was because they've been stupid or something, because the way I talk is chock-full of metaphors and weird references and I'm a massive fan of five-hour long philosophical rants on nothing, and most of them have just looked at me like "huh?" (my girlfriend included, for the most part).
Alternately, my best friend and me do this on a near constant basis. A great night for us is sitting in the dark with my iPod going, debating something or other or talking about are weird little personalities.
@Surly, THE ->-bleeped-<-ING GOSSIP.
Good god the GOSSIP.
My girlfriend is pretty laid back, acts like a mix between a kid and an adorable little tomboy most of the time and STILL, if she runs into a girl she hates the first thing she'll say is "And oh my god she got FAT".
...For reference, my girlfriend is 290 lbs. I'm not much better. To me, that's like saying "OH MY GOD JOHN HAS EYEBALLS WHAT THE HELL?!"
Luckily though, she can take a joke about it because I pick on her
constantly about it. Especially when she's complaining about supervisors at work, I'll just ask her in a bad Valley-girl impersonation "OMG DID LADONNA GET FAAAAAAT?"
It's fun.
The bathroom thing...the body spray doesn't bug me, I can pull my shirt over my face and be good. What always bothered me was the "Hey guys, lets go to the bathroom in a MASSIVE CLUSTER->-bleeped-<- GROUP and just STAND THERE IN FRONT OF THE MIRROR".
I don't mind going in the bathroom with someone else, don't mind if you're in the middle of a conversation and it continues, but it's like some women use the bathroom as a social experience or something. Which, to me at least, is creepy as all hell.
N.Chaos - Yeah, crazy double standards! The lasses I hang out with primarily complain about guys, often guys we all know, and are so horrible about it. All us guys are pretty unimpressed with the two main girls in the group at the minute. It's just downright nasty, a lot of it. They complain about guys being heartless ->-bleeped-<-s, then if one DARES to be nice to either of them, then they obviously want something, or are just general ->-bleeped-<-s for being nice. *shrug* Guys are so much simpler. We can have a good debate on something, or just sit and talk about boobs and farts, and crack horrific jokes. If the lasses are around, then all they do is complain, and we get tutted at for approving of boobs, farts and sick jokes. ¬¬
I just don't want people coming with me to the bathroom, it seems odd. I want to go in, pee or poo, wash my hands, leave. I don't want to have to discuss life with anyone whilst doing it, I don't want to have to then wait about for the others to finish up, or stare in the mirror for half an hour. Womens toilets make me uncomfortable, I don't want to spend longer in there.
I saw a group of lasses taking photos of each other in some toilets the other day. Weird.
OOhh my dear friends
Off course it wasn't offensive.
I was just joking about the man's talk.
No, don't you worry about offensivity, I know how annoying women's talk can be for men.
I really didn't mean it in a bad way, and I was just enjoying your talking.
And believe me, ask my better half, I can be an annoying bitch, at least this is what I hear sometimes. (lol)
Still love you friends
hugs
annette
Amen to the bathroom stuff. I don't get it, never have. One time back in in high school, I saw some girls studying in the washroom. Another time, I was about midway through doing what is people generally do in washrooms, when out of nowhere, somebody says "Hey, ____?" and strikes up a conversation. Between the stalls :P
The thing that really bugs me, though, is how impractical some women can be. Sure, the furniture may look cute when it's arranged that way, but how do you walk through the room?
Well, I've made no secret of my issues with women. I'm sure that these problems stem from my mommy issues, my sexual orientation, my own years of self-loathing because I hated pretending to be a woman, and the inevitable assumption by women that I was one of them--so they talked to me as they would any woman, but I was not able to relate to them well. Made me feel like some kind of alien. I just didn't care about a lot of the things they did.
All the same, I've worked on these issues and seem to be making a little progress. But now my attempts to "get over it" are making life difficult for me because I decided to be friendly with this woman at work, and things are straying into very uncomfortable territory. I told her stuff that is common knowledge to anyone who knows me, but she apparently thought I was confiding in her. So now she is confiding in me and starting to ask me questions that I consider too personal but most people don't. Like, what does my middle initial stand for and how old am I really?
I'm starting to think that I must have a rather unorthodox view of what should be private and what shouldn't. I mean, my middle name is a matter of public record, so why keep it a secret? Well, it all ties in with my being trans. I took the name pre-transition, and it's a veiled reference to my trans status. Why be private about my age? It's listed on Intelius...except that people think I'm much younger than I am (because I'm trans), and that sometimes causes problems and gets me unwanted attention and questions.
At work, I seem to be closeted about everything: trans status, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, prior relationships, age...I've been working here less than two months, and the secrecy is already starting to wear me down. But in my eyes, it all starts and ends with this one woman. If I hadn't tried this little social experiment of trying to be friendly acquaintances with her, I would have much more control, and I would be much more comfortable. I just want her to stop. And because I recently had a similar "failed" friendship with a guy, I'm fairly sure that if she were a guy, I would have a different emotional response and would figure out what to do and say. It might take some thinking and a bit of diplomacy, but I would feel differently about the whole situation. Crowded? Yes. Wanting to leave/run away? Yes. Feeling impatient, put-upon, angry, and threatened? Nope.
For some reason, though I do have good guy friends, but only those I have met on the net (even my age who live near me, just in other schools), in my life i've only ever really made friends with girls because all the guys used to pick on me in school cuz I was a weird geeky lesbian. They are better now, since I don't look so awkward and weird and ugly (as i see it), but it's too late to become good friends with those kind of people I know would gladly pick on the weak. I guess in this way, yes the ladies were bitchees some times but many maybe took pity on me and (ok that is a lot of bad self esteem there lol) yeah there is the gossip but those who I have not had feelings for have been pretty easy for me to get a long with.
The guys I am friends with are all pretty cool and good for a laugh, but I have not met many who I can have a serious conversation with- I think i'll meet that kind in Uni I hope, but I like my guys anyway and we go out on manly romps through the town, invading the park with our GOOD music trying to combat all the bad stuff the chavs blare out. The guys are generally into the stuff I am into as opposed to the girls which is a plus point of course.
That being said, I'm a very open listener. I tend to react to what happens than anything else, and I just enjoy listening and then giving advice, I guess patience at being that person has helped me understand them (ladies) a little better, and they seem to like it. Of course this gets me stuck with the nice guy label, and nice guys do not get girls as it seems :P
Lachlann has it right of course, it is more about individuals than gender but there are often trends between the two. I'm still sometimes stuck when they say a guy is being too nice, but I just laugh and tell them they should appreciate it and to remember when they were being a dick. I guess the role of listener, and knowing how to get people to open up, has put me in this kind of place where people just tell me stuff even if I don't really know them. If you are open with someone and tell them things they think is you confiding in them, as with Arch, people just go on and tell you stuff about them- its a very neat and easy psychological technique. Not that I'm manipulating people that way lol. . . Plus knowing a little about the ladies I get to help my lads out, and vice versa- though I can give my girl friends better advice about what a guy is thinking than guy to the girls.
Well, the first thing I've seemed to notice over time is that women often judge people within seconds. Sometimes guys do that too, but I've found more guys will just be up-front, for lack of a better term when talking (save for the occasions where some guy is specifically trying to get with a girl or something like that where there is some "agenda" going on!). Either way, communication is complicated. Many women grow up believing that many men are only after "one thing" (that is, to have sex with you), which is kinda f**cked up IMO but even I heard that growing up from people like my own mom, etc. Women that get a lot of attention already often act a certain way too - either the attention goes right to their heads and they just expect men to fall all over them, or they start to hate it. There's definitely some men that fall into that category too if they have a huge ego or something.
So it's still individualized as far as communications go between people but there are some generalizations that can be noticed if you pay attention to that sort of thing.
Also, if you are dressed a certain way, people are often going to make assumptions, etc. based solely on your appearance. Sad that it has to be that way but it's a fact of society. Many people think I'm "just a kid" because of the way I dress sometimes. If you're one of those sideways baseball hat, saggy pants kinda guys, then people are going to make assumptions about that too. If you're a women who likes to wear short skirts and high heels, there's another assumption. It's unfortunate that people can't just dress/look how they want without some sort of "consequences" of people making assumptions sometimes.
I've done some personal experimenting just with the appearance stuff and I am most definitely treated differently depending on what I'm wearing a large percentage of the time. Not to mention that I'm often treated differently whether people think I'm male or female (that throws a whole other spin on things).
Nevertheless, let me sort of get back to the main topic of finding women annoying. I have found women annoying, I have found men annoying ... annoyance for me doesn't have a gender. I'm annoyed by people's actions, by ignorance, by ->-bleeped-<-ty comments, etc.
I definitely get this (and I mean pretty much all of this).
I've never gotten along well with girls even though I was raised one. I'm not on T or anything (I actually haven't even started therapy yet) but it seems to me that the more 'out' I am, the less I can pretend to relate, if that makes any sense.
What I mean is, I always tried to at least pretend I had some mild interest in some things I don't actually (i.e. that today is the anniversary of you and your sixth boyfriend's 3rd date) though I just stated that I don't like others (i.e. perfume stinks, makeup is a waste of money, wallets are more convenient than purses, etc.). But now that most of my friends know that I'm a guy, I feel less inclined to try to follow something completely irrelevant to me. I follow enough to be polite but I'm not trying to pretend I'm really interested beyond the 'you're my friend and this is important to you so I'll listen' type interest.
Am I making sense here? Doesn't seem like it to me.
I won't discuss the gossip or the bathroom as a social meeting-place thing or I'll never stop writing. ::)
Hmmm, very interesting responses.
This girl I went to high school with was talking to me the other day and she said "it's nice because you're a guy but yet understand what it is like". And that doesn't offend me because it's true. I know getting your period sucks, I know breasts get in the way, I know having men saying "you could lose a few pounds" is degrading, I know I can relate to sexism towards women because I've been there. Because I've lived as a women -- it wasn't the worst thing in the world, it just wasn't for me.
Women like that I don't find annoying at all because even though they know I understand, they never mix up a pronoun or name. They also don't try to have a "girls night out" with me to talk about what clothes to buy, what brand of make up is better, which purse is more expensive blaw blaw blaw.
But that is from girls who know.
Girls who don't seem to automatically pin me as douche bag ->-bleeped-<-.
I get it, but sometimes too late. My girlfriend and I had our biggest disagreement when we were at the pub. She said "I've got a bit of a headache and I'm going to sit in the truck for a while". What she meant was "hurry up and finish your beer, I want to go home.". I heard, "your designated driver will be waiting for you in your truck when you're done." (not the logical interpretation, but I had had a few)
I carried on drinking with the guys, went out to the truck and found my girl, my dog, and my truck keys had left (sounds like a country music song, doesn't it?). As it was 1 AM and I was wearing shorts in the spring, I elected to sleep in the truck (luckily she left it unlocked). So I curled up in the dog blanket until 3 AM when I realized it was too damn cold for that. So I ran the 2 km home, fuming all the way. At about 1.9 km, I realized that what she had meant was "finish your beer, I want to go home." So I sheepishly slept on the couch and when we got up the next day, I said "we're both mad at each other and we both have good reason to be, but I did honestly misunderstand what you meant." We glared at each other, laughed, and got over it. I did feel quite justified in being mad because she should've just said she wanted to go home, but that's the way women express themselves and I should've got that. Often women don't express their wishes directly because they're conditioned to avoid conflict, even though it makes sense to just say what you want.
Dennis
Yeah see THAT is what I don't understand about women! THAT is what I find annoying.
I would have been pissed. But I see looking back all you can do is laugh about it.
Oh God, I needed this laugh today. If I weren't so tired I'd post my own stories. I'll just do it tomorrow. All I can say right now is that I am so glad that I'm gay.
talk about what clothes to buy, what brand of make up is better, which purse is more expensive
Yeah, cause that's a real downgrade from which microbrewery has the most alcohol in it, what power driver to to buy, who's motorcycle is faster, and which sports team is the best. Trivial conversation is always trivial, no matter the topic.
found my girl, my dog, and my truck keys had left (sounds like a country music song, doesn't it?)
I believe it's a whole section of the country music catalog. Still it's a funny story, never gets old.
Well, the first thing I've seemed to notice over time is that women often judge people within seconds. Sometimes guys do that too, but I've found more guys will just be up-front, for lack of a better term when talking
I bet men do it more, it's just that the women will tend to tell you while the guys play those cards closer to the vest. Just because I hate you and despise working with you is no reason to tell you that - best to save that surprise for when I need it.
Quote from: Lachlann on March 16, 2011, 05:34:30 AM
It's not about male or female advice. It's about knowing that individual person. That's the first and biggest mistake people make when trying to figure out the 'opposite sex.'
Some women wont give you a straight answer, but there are a lot of men like that too. Some people simply like to conform to ridiculous stereotypes but it doesn't strip away their individuality. And on that note, one of the reasons why women are wary of men is because it's been beaten into their brain that men often hurt and target women and they feel they have to protect themselves from that.
Communication is key, not the gender. If she wont give you a straight answer then there is a failure to communicate properly either on your end or hers.
Think of it this way... you're a man, right? You can't possibly speak for every man and you can only just regurgitate stereotypes that aren't often true. We're not all born with the same blueprint, we have varying interests, temperaments, personalities, etc... There is no one way to be a man or act like a man. The same is true for women.
This. Exactly. There are men who do the exact same thing. So just labeling the whole female (and male) gender is stereotyping.
Quote from: tekla on March 17, 2011, 11:28:18 AM
talk about what clothes to buy, what brand of make up is better, which purse is more expensive
Yeah, cause that's a real downgrade from which microbrewery has the most alcohol in it, what power driver to to buy, who's motorcycle is faster, and which sports team is the best. Trivial conversation is always trivial, no matter the topic.
No, okay. When girls KNOW about me some make a POINT to include me in "these" conversations on PURPOSE and it is annoying. If girls don't know and talk about it I don't care to be involved or not.
Quote from: annette on March 16, 2011, 02:23:30 PM
OOhh my dear friends
Off course it wasn't offensive.
I was just joking about the man's talk.
No, don't you worry about offensivity, I know how annoying women's talk can be for men.
You're funny! Glad to see you're not offended. Which brings me to my next point....
Quote from: Rain on March 17, 2011, 01:09:50 PM
This. Exactly. There are men who do the exact same thing. So just labeling the whole female (and male) gender is stereotyping.
Yes. That is true. However, stereotypes exist for a reason, and it's mainly because the stereotypes DO fit a majority of the population in question....otherwise they wouldn't be stereotypes! Like the stereotypical American, European, Mexican, etc....well, take a look at how the majority of them are, and it's TRUE. Most Americans are fat, most Europeans have strong body odor, most Mexicans can't be bothered to work at a fast pace because that's just their lifestyle. Whatever! Lol...if those stereotypes just now offended anyone, all I can say is oh well.
But here's the deal, since the thread is about complaints of women and their various habits I shall now offer my contribution (I apologize in advance for all the caps).
1. The whole "PARTY IN FIVE MINUTES IN THE BATHROOM" thing. I suppose they need to spend a long time in there adjusting makeup. But many of them just succumb to vanity and stare at the mirror while touching their hair and faces while having endless, ENDLESS conversations with their friends. Can I just get the hell on by you and wash my hands already? JEEZ. And one time recently I was in a women's room (got some weird looks) and a girl left the bathroom without washing her hands and the various women still in there laughed at her about it. WELL PLEASE STOP BLOCKING THE DAMNED SINK AND IT WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM.
2. "I just got this text from this guy that I haven't yet been able to enslave successfully, therefore the situation is complicated because he's not serious about me and I'm too dense to GET IT. Is there some super cryptic hidden meaning to his text?!?!?" Answer: No, he wants booty and you give it to him...move on to a guy who actually cares about you. On that note, women who think sex = love bother me in general. If sex honestly was the same as love, there would never be one night stands.
3. "OMG, that person *ENDLESS GOSSIP ALERT* blah blah blah!" I don't care and gossiping is insanely rude of you. Though this one definitely applies to both sexes as men gossip just as much as women (though mens' gossip tends to be about what their buddies did while drunk and how much various women in their lives are putting out.) Still, it's stupid all around.
4. I really hate to say this....but I find the fake laughter of women more annoying than fake laughter of men. =/ I'm just not a big fan of superficiality in general though.
5. "OMG, my boobs hurt. OMG, I'm pms-ing so badly right now! OMG, I HATE shaving my legs. OMG, what do I wear? I HATE dressing up! OMG, etc...." and yet "I LOVE BEING A WOMAN!!!!" My answer: "WTF? You sound like as much of a transman as me! If you don't like doing those things, why do them?"
6. And of course the subtleties in their conversational patterns and how they think there has to be some HIDDEN DEEPER MEANING to what I have just said. "I like piercings" does NOT mean I find you any less attractive because you lack them and CERTAINLY does not mean that I'm insisting you get them! Please stop reading into something that clearly isn't there!
And yet....I still love women. But the less "girly" they are, the better long-term commitment for me.
It's not rocket science, the reason women go to the rest room and spend time there can be brought down to 3 words: YOU'RE NOT THERE.
Quote from: Heath on March 17, 2011, 04:35:35 PM
...stereotypes exist for a reason, and it's mainly because the stereotypes DO fit a majority of the population in question....otherwise they wouldn't be stereotypes! Like the stereotypical American, European, Mexican, etc....well, take a look at how the majority of them are, and it's TRUE. Most Americans are fat, most Europeans have strong body odor, most Mexicans can't be bothered to work at a fast pace because that's just their lifestyle. Whatever! Lol...if those stereotypes just now offended anyone, all I can say is oh well.
The reason they exist is to make someone feel superior, that's why we have stereotypes they exist to put people down :) Why would you even need to see for yourself how different people are within any group if you have your stereotypes, you need to get off your butt and start conversing with people, it's alot more enjoyable.
Quote from: Gabby on March 17, 2011, 05:19:17 PM
The reason they exist is to make someone feel superior, that's why we have stereotypes they exist to put people down :) Why would you even need to see for yourself how different people are within any group if you have your stereotypes, you need to get off your butt and start conversing with people, it's alot more enjoyable.
I agree that conversing is an amazing way to break stereotypes (and is totally fun), but there are people of certain ethnic groups and gender orientations who say "Well, actually, it's TRUE that most black people love collard greens and catfish!" Not all stereotypes are meant to be harmful. And the ones that ARE harmful are meant to be broken. =D
Quote from: tekla on March 17, 2011, 05:05:18 PM
It's not rocket science, the reason women go to the rest room and spend time there can be brought down to 3 words: YOU'RE NOT THERE.
Then tell the men to buzz off? Threaten them with pepper spray if need be? Learn some basic self-defense? Seriously, not making your intentions known only *adds* to the problem of men taking up your space. If women stood up for themselves they wouldn't have to retreat to the bathrooms and use them as a "safe space." Strong assertive women who tell men exactly where they can go are HOT. Women who play hide and seek in a restroom when people need to be in there for legitimate purposes NOT involving chit-chat = not at all attractive.
I find catty women annoying. That and jealous, over bearing women. Men like that bother me just as much. But besides those character flaws, they don't bother me.
Quote from: Heath on March 17, 2011, 05:27:48 PM
I agree that conversing is an amazing way to break stereotypes (and is totally fun), but there are people of certain ethnic groups and gender orientations who say "Well, actually, it's TRUE that most black people love collard greens and catfish!" Not all stereotypes are meant to be harmful. And the ones that ARE harmful are meant to be broken. =D
Argh collard greens they are argh lol. I googled the word and my enemy from childhood appeared, I didn't even know those evil things were even called that haha.
And yes I think we've all joked around in a respectful way among friends and family :)
Quote"OMG, my boobs hurt. OMG, I'm pms-ing so badly right now! OMG, I HATE shaving my legs. OMG, what do I wear? I HATE dressing up! OMG, etc...." and yet "I LOVE BEING A WOMAN!!!!" My answer: "WTF? You sound like as much of a transman as me! If you don't like doing those things, why do them?"
Well, if they don't shave their legs they'll be pretty much treated like a disease. I should know. I shave my legs because it isn't worth the hassle on top of the other body dysphoria and transphobia I face ALREADY. I wanna just wear shorts without being stared at. When I pass, I'll let the hair grow but I entirely empathize.
Plus, being male/female has nothing to do with how much you enjoy stereotypes about your gender. There's a lot more to being a man/woman than any of that. Social pressure can be pretty rough.
Well, this tread is now a bit like battle of the sexes.
There is no need for because we do need eachother.
Men and women do have another perspective and that's good.
Imagine, there were only men on the world......boring
Or only women.....boring.
So we need eachother to create a balance.
For feelings I prefer to talk with women, but I love the sense of humor of men and the way men look to solve problems.
Yes guys and girls...we can't live without eachother.
There is no black without white.
Hugs
annette
Reminds me of the time a male student got up all hot and bothered saying: "There is a women's center on campus, where's the men's center?" Like he was being all clever. My response was: "Well try the football stadium on game day, and if that don't work for you, try the college of engineering."
Quote from: Heath on March 17, 2011, 04:35:35 PMmost Mexicans can't be bothered to work at a fast pace because that's just their lifestyle.
Why do people keep thinking this? Have you ever encountered a Mexican? I've never seen one who isn't working 2 jobs for minimum wage to support their family in the US and back in Mexico. We don't show up here for the welfare, most of us don't even know it exist. We come from a country where the government won't even fund public school past 6th grade, how the hell are we suppose to know about crap like Medicaid or food stamps? My mom worked by herself from age 13 to support 11 brothers and sisters, her parents, and her nephew. By 18 she brought them all here to the US. My grandpa is almost 80 and he and my grandma still haven't retired. They're still working their asses off. How can that be low pace or lazy? Only lazy moments most of us have are after 16 hours of work where we either pass out or drink the body pain away, hence the alcoholism most suffer from. I wouldn't be so offended if this wasn't a made up stereotype by the "they took our jobs!" people. We're alcoholics, men aren't involved in their children's lives as much as they should be, women are always either evil ball busting harpies or do whatever their man says, we make up holidays just for drinking, we're awful at religion, we eat every part of the damn cow except what you're suppose to eat because they're expensive cuts.
Those stereotypes I'm ok with because they're actually pretty true.
Sorry, I'm not mad. I'm just frustrated @_@.
The problem with stereotypes is that they aren't facts.
It can been proven that x% of Americans are overweight (and probably because that is more of a health concern).
To say Mexicans are lazy, that is just from your personal observation.
Same goes with my observations about some women, I feel that they can be annoying, I am not stating women are annoying to be true.
I only started this thread to point out how strange it is to transition in society starting as female and then living later as male. It is just funny to be on the other side and be read male to notice different things that I never noticed when living as a woman.
That being said, the exact same thing can be said about men being annoying. And different kinds of annoying depending on if I am out to them or not. Just because I am saying these things doesn't mean it is a true fact, it is just something I have experienced.
What it boils down to is that people have become incredibly sensitive and politically correct when in reality we've all had to grow a thicker skin for whatever reason. Without adversity, there would be no need for self-improvement. Like I said, sorry if I offended anyone with my statements. I'm only stating my personal observations about women and I'm sorry if that got anyone's "panties in a wad" so to speak. You click on a thread about "women being annoying sometimes...." in all honesty and with all due respect, what do you expect to find in here? Just saying. I'm sure women talk about what kinds of ->-bleeped-<-s men are and
some of them (see? I'm not stereotyping!) don't even bother to preface with "well, not ALL men, BUT most men...." It's the same kind of thing, just a different label on the complaint department.
JayUnit, I know you're saying you FEEL women can be annoying and are not making a claim that women are annoying is true. That's called having your opinion (which you and anyone else alive is entitled to), and honestly I dislike it when I consistently have to justify and backtrack on my opinions just because someone gets the least bit offended. The thing here is that NONE of us are stereotyping. We ALL know there are exceptions to every rule. Yes, being politically correct is good....can we move on to the meat of the discussion yet? I'm not trying to troll or anything like that, but I feel like it needed to be said that we're not trying to attack anyone....if anything we're pointing out distasteful behaviors. For me, I know I pointed out a few that BOTH/ALL sexes are guilty of. AGAIN, just sayin'.
So, to my next point....
Quote from: Darth_Taco on March 18, 2011, 02:54:12 AM
Why do people keep thinking this? Have you ever encountered a Mexican? I've never seen one who isn't working 2 jobs for minimum wage to support their family in the US and back in Mexico. We don't show up here for the welfare, most of us don't even know it exist. We come from a country where the government won't even fund public school past 6th grade, how the hell are we suppose to know about crap like Medicaid or food stamps? My mom worked by herself from age 13 to support 11 brothers and sisters, her parents, and her nephew. By 18 she brought them all here to the US. My grandpa is almost 80 and he and my grandma still haven't retired. They're still working their asses off. How can that be low pace or lazy? Only lazy moments most of us have are after 16 hours of work where we either pass out or drink the body pain away, hence the alcoholism most suffer from. I wouldn't be so offended if this wasn't a made up stereotype by the "they took our jobs!" people. We're alcoholics, men aren't involved in their children's lives as much as they should be, women are always either evil ball busting harpies or do whatever their man says, we make up holidays just for drinking, we're awful at religion, we eat every part of the damn cow except what you're suppose to eat because they're expensive cuts. Those stereotypes I'm ok with because they're actually pretty true.
Sorry, I'm not mad. I'm just frustrated @_@.
I've certainly encountered Mexicans and you may or may not find this hard to believe (idk), but in reality *I'm* usually the one educating people about how hardworking most Mexicans are. YES, there are some that live off the welfare, and YES there are some that just plain don't want to work, but there are a LOT of white hippies (again SORRY FOR OFFENSE....) who don't want to work either. Apples and oranges and there are bad ones in every bunch.
However, I WILL say that Mexicans (and white people, and black people, and WHOEVER) tend to slow down their work pace when they're making minimum wage. Who doesn't? If you're working hourly and you don't get incentives for making more goods, why work faster than the next person? Pure Marxist ideology right there. But anyway, the reason why I say that Mexicans work at a slower pace because that's just their lifestyle, I don't know how many times I've heard of car work getting done "mañana." Most times when you want something done, the answer is going to be "mañana." (At least in Mexico if your buddy is working on your car. Here in the States they're not as friendly about car work.) Am I saying there is anything wrong with that? Not at all. Just wanted to clarify.
If I come off sounding like an ->-bleeped-<-, it's because I am. Never really been good at sugar coating anything....I'll be honest in admitting it's quite potentially my biggest flaw as a person.
I find women less annoying now than I used to. For me, testosterone has made me a lot more tolerant.
Quote from: Heath on March 18, 2011, 04:26:46 AM
If I come off sounding like an ->-bleeped-<-, it's because I am. Never really been good at sugar coating anything....I'll be honest in admitting it's quite potentially my biggest flaw as a person.
Heath you sound like you need to defend something but putting others down? I'd rather not defend whatever it is as it's clearly not honestly earnt.
I realize that there are things that occur that enforce stereotypes, but...
All us guys were born female-bodied. That means that these stereotypes have been applied to _all_ of us. Society, at least the portion of society that really believes these stereotypes doesn't give two rat's asses that we're male identified. As long as we appear, or have appeared female those stereotypes are going to be applied to us and it SUCKS ASS.
My post was about one or two women in particular; I think we need to be particular about our statements because otherwise we just perpetuate ->-bleeped-<- that also hurts us.
Just my two cents.
Wow! You are the same bunch of people who decry a lack of sensitivity and an excess of stereotyping when it comes to your group right? Sure.
If I come off sounding like an ->-bleeped-<-, it's because I am.
You know, you never have to tell people that, it's the first thing about you they know, even if they don't know you. That particular quality - like an excess of crappy aftershave - tends to arrive long before you do.
QuoteSometimes find women annoying?
I sometimes find annoying people annoying. But only when I am low on patience.
Quote from: Gabby on March 18, 2011, 08:49:27 AM
Heath you sound like you need to defend something but putting others down? I'd rather not defend whatever it is as it's clearly not honestly earnt.
Who was I putting down? ??? Just wondering....I wasn't trying to put down JayUnit (in fact I gave him a reputation point for keeping a sense of peace in here). If you're implying I was insulting women, I was just simply doing what the other members who posted in this thread were doing which was offering my perspective of when (some) women SOMETIMES annoy me.
Quote from: tekla on March 18, 2011, 09:40:35 AM
Wow! You are the same bunch of people who decry a lack of sensitivity and an excess of stereotyping when it comes to your group right? Sure.
If I come off sounding like an ->-bleeped-<-, it's because I am.
You know, you never have to tell people that, it's the first thing about you they know, even if they don't know you. That particular quality - like an excess of crappy aftershave - tends to arrive long before you do.
I can tell we'll get along rather well around here. ::)
And no, I don't go around claiming a lack of sensitivity and excess of stereotypes when it comes to my group. For starters, I either think one of two things. 1: It's more of a lack of *education* which is vastly different than sensitivity. (Do I seem like the kind of guy who places a high value on sensitivity? Not really.) Or 2: You can't cure stupid for whoever is making the claims, because some people will just never get it. In those instances I deal with the discrimination thrown my way, with my head held up high, and I move on.
Quote from: Heath on March 18, 2011, 04:26:46 AM
JayUnit, I know you're saying you FEEL women can be annoying and are not making a claim that women are annoying is true. That's called having your opinion (which you and anyone else alive is entitled to), and honestly I dislike it when I consistently have to justify and backtrack on my opinions just because someone gets the least bit offended. The thing here is that NONE of us are stereotyping. We ALL know there are exceptions to every rule. Yes, being politically correct is good....can we move on to the meat of the discussion yet? I'm not trying to troll or anything like that, but I feel like it needed to be said that we're not trying to attack anyone....if anything we're pointing out distasteful behaviors. For me, I know I pointed out a few that BOTH/ALL sexes are guilty of. AGAIN, just sayin'.
Sorry, yeah I should have said that I pointed that out only because I knew other people might bring up the fact that I am stereotyping, I knew you knew what I was talking about. But I figured if I didn't explain myself there would have been an argument from someone.
Quote from: Caleb Jeremy on March 17, 2011, 06:21:43 PM
Well, if they don't shave their legs they'll be pretty much treated like a disease. I should know. I shave my legs because it isn't worth the hassle on top of the other body dysphoria and transphobia I face ALREADY. I wanna just wear shorts without being stared at. When I pass, I'll let the hair grow but I entirely empathize.
Plus, being male/female has nothing to do with how much you enjoy stereotypes about your gender. There's a lot more to being a man/woman than any of that. Social pressure can be pretty rough.
Huh....I haven't shaved my legs since last August and haven't been treated any differently. I guess it depends on the people you're around.
WOW! Lol I went back to work and haven't been on in a few days and damn this whole thread has taken one wild turn. I think I've come to the conclusion that men are men women are women and we will never truly understand each other. And to think about it now I don't think I want to understand women, it's kind of like this air of mystery about them. Even tho I may get frustrated with not understanding, its still that one thing that keeps me interested and on my toes trying to figure my girl out. I guess thats a good thing, it helps me not take her for granted because I "know everything about her". So yeah I think a lack of understanding can be a good thing. Whether we get annoyed or not, I know I annoy her just as much so it's all good!
Hi Thatman
Wise words spoken and it's more romantic when you don't understand anything, isn't it?
There would be nothing more to discovered anymore..........boring.
Now the tension between the sexes stay's and that's a good thing.
And maybe you've heard it many times, but I have to say it once again, you look great.
A hug from 5000 miles away
annette
People in general tend to annoy me because we all do stupid things sometime in our life that someone won't understand and that is what makes us human.
Oh god the bathroom thing... I've seen guys do it too but man do I hate the "let's go pile into the bathroom to talk/put on make-up" Seriously I spend 5 minutes in front of the mirror in the morning which is me brushing teeth, doing hair, making myself clean for the day and my mom jokes that I'm acting like a woman, which I have to laugh at.
And Fumbling: I've noticed that a good portion of women (of those I've spoken to) tend to find armpit and leg hair disgusting but men are "gay" or femminine if they don't have it which just leaves me going WTF? ???
Quote from: Andrew Alexander on March 19, 2011, 10:55:33 PM
And Fumbling: I've noticed that a good portion of women (of those I've spoken to) tend to find armpit and leg hair disgusting but men are "gay" or femminine if they don't have it which just leaves me going WTF? ???
Double standards, ahoy!
I hate them regardless of where they come from. In my personal life, it's usually been from girls, but even I'm not THAT stupid to say that it doesn't come from everywhere.
"Be sensitive, but still be a man! You have to open up and cry, WHAT THE HELL CRYING IS UNMANLY."
X_X