Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Just feeling a need to post this.  I have been criticized many times because of my transsexual status.  Yea, I am one of those that have always known since the day I could have a thought, that I am male.  And I find myself being within a minority, (transsexual) within a minority (transgender).  Does anyone else feel ...understand this difference?  Or am I just splitting hairs?  I want to be a support for all, but I do have a hard time understanding alot of the transgender issues, being a transsexual man. 

I cannot relate to the F2M component, but I can tell you that you are not alone in choosing to use transsexual instead of transgender...but I do not know that I can expound further on my rationale without running afoul of the rules.

I always thought that they meant the same thing, except transsexual implied you had surgery to deal with the gender dysphoria.

I realize this is the FTM forum and I am a MTF, but this topic is one I have always been interested in.  As with most things in life I have strong opinions about things, but also understand that there are opposing opinions.  I am always interested in knowing what fuels these opinions, and at times it has influenced my thinking in dramatic ways.

I am a transgender woman.  I admit that it was when I found out about transsexualism that I began to understand what was going on with me.   Since then I have shied away from transsexual and embraced transgender.  For me, transsexual implies something sexual while transgender deals only with the actual gender issue that I have.  Being asexual I relate far better with the gender aspects of my whole identity situation.  I also realize that sex and gender are interchangeable in many aspects of daily life.  But again, I relate far better to the gender aspects of my situation.

That being said, I am always curious about how, and/or why others either fell like I do, or have an opposing opinion.

Have a great day.

I agree with her. I also thought that they meant the same thing, but I've been preferring the term transgender because with the word 'sexual' in there, people on the outside tend to think only in terms of sex and probably see it as some weird sexual perversion. And what I'm doing with myself in presenting myself as a man has nothing to do with sex or being some kind of creeper, it's just me being me, no different than a biological male. I'm rather asexual in my old age here anyway and couldn't care less. I'm not out to perv on anybody at all.  :laugh:

I am not transgender. My gender is female and I do not wish to become a man.
My sex is curently in transition from male to female. That means I am transsexual.

Yes the word sex makes some people uncomfortable but that is just too bad. People have a sex. It is just a fact of existance. If you have to transition from one sex to the other then the term transgender is not fitting.

Now as to the political transgender umbrela that is a diferant thing.
Many do not agree with it. (I do.) It is in the disagreement as to weather transsexuals belong under that umbrela that alot of ink has been spilled and lots of egos harmed on many sides of the argument.

This is a can of worms topic that can get inflamitory fast.
Please respect eachother.

I think it would make more sense if those of us who are transitioning from one gender to another were "transgender" and if people who cross-dress or are self-identified "gender-benders" or whatever they prefer to call themselves were referred to as something other than "transgender." I have nothing against people who cross-dress, etc., I just think it would be easier when explaining to people that I'm a transman if the term was "transgender" rather than "transsexual," so they wouldn't be confused and think it has something to do with my sexual orientation. It seems like a lot of people think it's about sexual orientation, merely because there's the word "sexual" in the term "transsexual." I once told someone I'm a transsexual, and her first question was "So does that mean you're a lesbian?" That's the kind of reaction I wish I could avoid.

Transsexual vs transgender...well, people use these terms differently. I know some people who are transsexual by the usual definition--that is, they identify as male but were designated female at birth, and they have started transition and live as men--but they prefer to call themselves transgender. They may have concerns that are very similar to yours, but they use a different label for themselves.

For years, I used "transgender" as a way of distancing myself from my transsexuality. I'm sure that other people do this.

Yes, it's hard being in the transsexual minority, and some consider us lunatic extremists because we change our bodies. But public perceptions are slowly changing. I think that if you do more reading on several forums here and if you do more reading generally, you will start understanding better. Give yourself some time. Or not--maybe you don't need to understand, as long as you support other people's right to self-definition.

My understanding is that transgender is an umbrella term that includes transsexuals, as well as people outside the gender binary. A transsexual is someone who identifies as male or female and wishes to have surgery to align their physical sex to match their gender.

Quote from: Sharky on May 07, 2011, 07:43:39 PM
My understanding is that transgender is an umbrella term that includes transsexuals, as well as people outside the gender binary. A transsexual is someone who identifies as male or female and wishes to have surgery to align their physical sex to match their gender.

Gender has nothing to do with sex drive though.  For example there's people identify as male gender who have srs to have female genitalia and the reverse too.  Young children have no sex drive but they sure do have a gender.

The two terms are interlinked as we are talking about a single person, but someone can be one without the other.  For me transgendered, that I was in some way both genders. that we actually create our gender identity for ourselves came first at about 8 years old,  then the first realisation of being transsexual was at about 12.  But there's no time stipulation, doesn't have to happen when someone is young, as like I said gender is created by us as individuals.  Sex drive can be influenced by being transgendered, I think this in theory because I function sexually as a female.  Also my gender identity is female with male, just because there's a correlation between gender identity and sexual identity doesn't mean they have to match, gender and sex drive are completely seperate.

And it is wholy possible to be transgender or transsexual, both or neither.  For an example of one but not the other would be the first example I gave, for an example of neither take a CD they don't have to be transsexual and gender is something we create ourself so it would be up to the individual.  I don't pass as a female looking, I certainly do emtionally and with my interactions with the world.  But it's my definition of female end of the day that's the bottom line, I could say I pass looking as a female who is to say otherwise?

Quote from: Lexia on May 07, 2011, 08:19:57 PM
Gender has nothing to do with sex drive though.  For example there's people identify as male gender who have srs to have female genitalia and the reverse too.  Young children have no sex drive but they sure do have a gender.

The previous poster didn't mention sex drive, just physical sex.

I think that there are a few various things. There's sex assigned at birth, sex identity, gender assigned at birth, and gender identity. Typically a transsexual would have at some point in their life a miss match between their sex identity and sex identified at birth (usually gender, too). Transgender is typically a person whose gender assigned at birth does not meet their gender identity. Both groups could have body dysphoria related to their sex (either secondary or primary sex characteristics).

Quote from: Nygeel on May 07, 2011, 08:34:32 PM
The previous poster didn't mention sex drive, just physical sex.

That's very true very good point.  Being Transgendered can require srs.

Quote from: Lexia on May 07, 2011, 08:39:05 PM
That's very true very good point.  Being Transgendered can require srs.

I never said anything about srs.

Quote from: Sharky on May 07, 2011, 07:43:39 PM
My understanding is that transgender is an umbrella term that includes transsexuals, as well as people outside the gender binary. A transsexual is someone who identifies as male or female and wishes to have surgery to align their physical sex to match their gender.

Sharky is correct.  Transgender is an umbrella term which includes Transsexuals, Cross Dressers, Gender Queer and many others.

So Yes MowDan being Transsexual is a minority within a minority.

Mowdan-I guess that means I'm transexual because like you I've basically always known but I use the term transgender because in my experiences people tend to group transsexual with homosexual whereas they don't with transgender

I once had it explained to me as someone who is transgender can be anywhere in the spectrum, but is usually someone with a less defined sex. I know one person who describes themself as neither gender, because they don't believe they are wholely male or wholely female, and from what I was told that person is 'transgender'.

I refer to myself as transgender because like mentioned above I've found that saying transexual seems to make people think that it's something to do with sexual orientation. >:(

Im a man
Im not a transexual
Transexual is a clinical diagnosis that gave me rights to medical treatmentss (in my contry).
I was assigned female at birth.
Any medical steps i take is moving my body closer to who i am, its not a gender or sex transition, but a help to live my life with a GID. Beging assigned female at birth will leave its marks on my mind and my body forever. Just like any lifelong condition, the medical help is there to help me and live a better life as a man being born that way.
Thats why i dont id as transexual or transgender. I can see the term fit me on the paper. I would tell me doctor im transexual, but in my lived life i dont see the use for using the term about myself. But everybody needs to find their own ways of how to define themselves. Choose whatever makes u the most happy and comfortable.

The way I see it is that transsexualism is a medical condition; a diagnosis and nothing more, whereas ->-bleeped-<- is an identity. Like others said, it's also an umbrella term that covers a selection of other binary-defying identities. One can be transsexual and identify as transgender or identify as transgender without being transsexual.

Quote from: Nygeel on May 07, 2011, 08:45:49 PM
I never said anything about srs.

I find it hard to understand what you're saying sorry :/.   You said physical sex, and a problem with physical sex can make someone feel the need for srs, that is up to the individual.

QuoteSharky is correct.  Transgender is an umbrella term which includes Transsexuals, Cross Dressers, Gender Queer and many others.

So Yes MowDan being Transsexual is a minority within a minority.

Janet, sex and gender are not the same.  Which is exactly why I'm concerned about some Transgendered people thinking they need srs, the thought of someone having surgery because they think they need to have their sex match their gender.  Things change how we work sexually changes I'll say it again this is theoretical to me I've tried having sex as a man, I do not work that way.

To me srs is the primary thing, I have a female sex drive and I need the right equipment.


What about the CD ->-bleeped-<- who wears female clothing but identifies wholly as male?  He's still a he, like someone born with the wrong sexual characteristics needing to change them, they were never the sex they were born into.

Quote from: Lexia on May 08, 2011, 07:57:08 AM
What about the CD ->-bleeped-<- who wears female clothing but identifies wholly as male?  He's still a he, like someone born with the wrong sexual characteristics needing to change them, they were never the sex they were born into.

I think you misunderstood what Janet was saying.

A cross dresser who still identifies as their birth sex would be part of the transgender umbrella, but not transsexual.

I understand the difference between the two (I think I do, at least  ;)), so I'm technically transsexual. I don't identify that way because (this is probably going to sound ridiculous) the way certain words sound really bother me; when I pronounce it, it sounds like 'transeckshual', and it just has too many hard consonants for me to like it.
Granted, I only use the term transgender when it is absolutely necessary for someone to know I'm not cis. Otherwise I just say I'm a guy. Identify however you want, let other people identify however they want, and don't worry too much about it.  :)

Quote from: Ryan on May 08, 2011, 06:21:52 AM
The way I see it is that transsexualism is a medical condition; a diagnosis and nothing more, whereas ->-bleeped-<- is an identity. Like others said, it's also an umbrella term that covers a selection of other binary-defying identities. One can be transsexual and identify as transgender or identify as transgender without being transsexual.

This completely.  I see my transsexual experience as a medical condition.  I identify as a man, not a trans man (although I will say it if it's specifically relevant to the setting).  It took me a while to get to where I'm at now.  I used to strongly identify with being transgender.  I no longer identify with the term because, for me, it means that I've changed my gender.  I've changed my sex (physical self); I've always been male gender, but I haven't always been male sex.

Quote from: Lexia on May 08, 2011, 07:57:08 AM
I find it hard to understand what you're saying sorry :/.   You said physical sex, and a problem with physical sex can make someone feel the need for srs, that is up to the individual.

I said sex assigned at birth and sex identity. I said that a person's sex identity not might match up with the sex assigned at birth, usually causing a discomfort in one's primary sex characteristics or secondary sex characteristics. Secondary sex characteristics being things that are not genitals, and primary being genitals. So, a person who is a transsexual might feel uncomfortable with their genitals but might not necessarily need surgery.

People who identify as transgender have a gender identity which is different than the gender assigned at birth. They might have discomfort with their sex (primary/secondary).

Quote
Janet, sex and gender are not the same.  Which is exactly why I'm concerned about some Transgendered people thinking they need srs, the thought of someone having surgery because they think they need to have their sex match their gender.  Things change how we work sexually changes I'll say it again this is theoretical to me I've tried having sex as a man, I do not work that way.

If sex and gender aren't the same then how can one have their sex and gender match?

Quote
To me srs is the primary thing, I have a female sex drive and I need the right equipment.

What is a female sex drive? Also, what of people who are non-op? People who don't want surgery because they don't like the options? People who don't feel that uncomfortable with their genitals?

Quote
What about the CD ->-bleeped-<- who wears female clothing but identifies wholly as male?  He's still a he, like someone born with the wrong sexual characteristics needing to change them, they were never the sex they were born into.

I don't understand what you mean by what I bolded.

I prefer transsexual over transgender, because nothing is wrong with my gender.
My physical sex is wrong, therefore transsexual.

HOWEVER, transsexual is a confusing word for many. So transsexed (sort of similar to intersex) would be a better word in my opinon, but that's not used.

I see the points you all make. I guess I am transsexual then, because my physical sex is wrong for me. I would like to be on T and to lose the boobs, but I don't feel much need for the construction of a penis, at least not at this point. But initially I didn't like the term transsexual, because like someone already mentioned, people then ask you "does that mean you're a lesbian?". *headdesk* No, it's got nothing to do with sexuality. I am still only attracted to men. I just happen to see myself as a man and living in a male role in society. I have always been just one of the guys even though I may have not realized it earlier in life.

I was born male, but knew since at least age 4 that I was a girl. I have transitioned to female, and I identify as female. That makes me technically a transexual woman, and I am proud of being a transexual woman. But working in schools in the USA, calling yourself or being called a transexual could be dangerous, because so many haters try to connect us to sexual predators. (The same happens to gay people, which is why we avoid the term "homosexual"). It's not a matter of my discomfort with the term transexual; it's for my own safety. I am accepted as I am by students, parents, and colleagues in three schools, and in the broader school district. I am out to anyone who knew me before this year. Most of the parents with any ounce of sense know I am transexual, but they also know me as "Jill", someone they know and trust. When I use the term "transgender" they understand it is about identity and not about my sexual interests/practices. I see "transgender" as an umbrella term that includes transexuals, cross-dressers, drag kings/queens, and others. I am proud to be under the transgender umbrella, and proud to be under the LGBT umbrella, where I have many allies.

Surgery is not necessary for someone to be transexual. I have been on HRT for 3 years. I may or may not have GRS - it depends on funding and my health. That doesn't make me any less of a transexual.  What makes someone transexual is the knowledge that they are a different sex/gender than they were identified as at birth and they seek to correct that by living as their true gender/sex.

Somewhere I saw the word "transexed" used in place of transsexual. I like that better, for the reasons already pointed out...it has nothing to do with sexuality, but lots of people outside our community don't seem to know that.

As far as words go, and what I call myself when explaining it to people, I normally say "transgender" rather than "transsexual". This is because a lot of people have stereotypes associated with the word transsexual, but not so many with the word transgender. But if I'm being technical about it, then I'll say transsexual to be more specific (also, if I'm having a real discussion about it, then the person is probably open-minded enough to understand that stereotypes are not to be believed).

As far as minorities, I think that supporting a united front is good, but also presenting the fact that there are minorities under it is important. I mean, I'm FTM, under the transgender umbrella, and aromantic under the asexual umbrella. The umbrella terms are good enough to describe me in simple terms, but if I'm coming out, or sharing information about it, I'm sure to explain what the minorities are.

I really don't understand too much the subtle differences between these terms, I use them interchangably, I don't see the difference, always thought they meant the same thing. But I guess its because I've never delved deeply into their meanings that I don't see what the big deal is. Even though personally I prefer transgender in terms of how it sounds though only because transsexual makes it sound like there's an actual sexual act going on, but whatever, again, no big deal for me.

It's kind of a double-edged sword, as I see it.

For those who live in industrialized countries with socialized healthcare that covers transition for transsexuals, I feel that the TG/TS debate is more an academic argument than it is for those of us in the US or other countries beholden to a private healthcare system.  Our situation in the US is one of complete nonpayment for anything related to transition, thus imposing on the transsexual a financial burden which exceeds the means of many.  We need transsexualism to be recognized as a treatable physical condition not unlike cancer, diabetes, or even bad eyesight: physiologically based with a prescribed path of optimal treatment.  Only when this distinction is made can we move toward insurance parity for transsexual medical necessities.  This conversation is pretty much a non-starter if we remain contentedly under the TG umbrella along with people without need of medical intervention.

Now please note that this does not, in any way, mean advocating for special rights in exclusion of the rest of the TG community (i.e., marriage and public accommodations).  Equality for all is the most noble goal to which society can strive, and full TG rights are worth fighting for.  But the simple truth is that until private insurers recognize the legitimacy of transsexual medical needs, we'll be stuck paying out of our pockets forever while insurance companies reap mad profits.  This is why I identify strongly as transsexual and never refer to myself as transgender... I believe in the goal of parity for transsexual-specific healthcare.

Here's the double-edged sword I mentioned: society rarely makes sweeping changes all at once, and we're only just entering the age of transsexual awareness and acceptance (the latter a "just barely").  The LGB part of the spectrum has the stage now as they have for several decades, and I honestly think our turn is next.  But will society, who can barely grapple with the notion of lesbian and gay (forget trying to understand bi), be able to cope with TG nomenclature?  Or will a TS fight for medical equality (in the US anyway) overshadow all forms of rights for the rest of the TG spectrum, much in the way that we've been bargaining chips for the LGB community to get rights that specifically exclude us?  This unfortunate aspect of society may very well mean that either one segment of the TG spectrum wins, or we all lose.  My sincere hope is that that's not the case, and we need to be damn careful not to let that happen.

So I say... it's a slippery slope with no easy answers.

i like the word transgender way more because the word transsexual has the word sexual in it and i always think there's probably still far too many people that think transitioning has something or anything to do with sex and it doesn't.

even knowing that's the umbrella term for about a dozen other identities and the fact that i know i was born in the wrong body and need to transition with hormones and surgeries to survive psychologically and emotionally - that is the medical definition of a transsexual. that's it. but for that dumb reason i stated at the top, i don't like hearing or saying it. even typing it that much.

and now that i read Jungian Zoe's comment on this, i realize people like me do not help ourselves with insurance to one day see the impact it would be to pay for our hormones and surgeries once they know we're not weird or cross dressing but we have a medical condition as bad as diabetes, cancer, cataracts, MS, MD, mental illness, these all NEED treatment and help paying for it all. hhmm i guess i should either just leave it to saying I'm a guy or get used to using the term transsexual for the sake of educating people.

Kia Ora,

::)  Hey folks, how about adding  this to the mix...


How's that for a nutshell !!! But I could be wrong...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Noah the brave-ish on May 10, 2011, 01:20:02 AM
i like the word transgender way more because the word transsexual has the word sexual in it and i always think there's probably still far too many people that think transitioning has something or anything to do with sex and it doesn't.

I would tend to agree with this view. I am medically and technically transsexual, but I have always found the term problematic, especially with the general public.

Part of this may be to do with the word "sexual" that is embedded in the word, as it makes people think of it as a type of sexual perversion or deviance. For me, I've had this issue since I was a toddler, so there is nothing sexual about it.

Another reason why the word "transsexual" may bring out the wrong ideas when used is because there is so much ridiculous publicity/porn going around that feature "transsexuals", like it is a whole new exotic genre. Unless you are a porn star or works in the industry, I am sure people rarely want to be seen in that context in their day to day lives.

Further, the word "transsexual" has often been used as a demeaning and derogatory term against trans people, and I can see why trans people would want to distance themselves from it.

I just wish there is another term that is both medically fitting and appropriate for daily use. At present it seem like "transgendered" is the best description for myself  :-\

Personally, I tend to use the word transgender when coming out because I feel like it's easier to understand. I feel like there's a negative connotation to the word transsexual so I don't like using the term for myself.

I do not understand shying away from the proper medical term because some uneducated fool could take it wrong.
It is what it is. Just because the term makes you uncomfortable does not make the term invalid.
Am I making any sense here?

Quote from: cynthialee on May 10, 2011, 11:41:02 AM
I do not understand shying away from the proper medical term because some uneducated fool could take it wrong.
It is what it is. Just because the term makes you uncomfortable does not make the term invalid.
Am I making any sense here?

I don't think that transsexual is considered a proper medical term (if that's what you're referring to). I agree that it doesn't make the term invalid but I feel that words we more closely identify with are a bit more important. Some people argue that genderqueer is a word like transgender, and that it covers a lot of different identities and types of people. However, a lot of people identify strictly as gender queer because they might not like certain words like androgyne, bigender, pangender, etc.

I also feel that there's sort of a "flip side" to your argument that isn't exactly related to what's being discussed here. The proper medical term for my genitals is clitoris, vulva, vagina. I don't identify that part of my body as female, or in a female way and prefer to call my genitals a penis, and boy box/front hole. The terms clitoris, vulva, and vagina make me uncomfortable and don't apply to me as much since there have been a lot of changes going on. I would think a lot of people would agree.

Transsexual is the proper medical term for someone who is changing or has changed their physical sex.
Transgender is a term coined by Victoria Prince for those folks like her that chose to live as women but maintain male bodies.

Then we have the transgender umbrela which is a political unity.

i wish transgender was the official one. since i can say that without flinching if i must but I'd rather just go by male. I've seen a bunch of guys use it, even on tv shows about trans people use it as meaning born in the wrong body. i still don't like transsexual. it just...sounds weird. i shouldn't care about what people think but i kinda do when saying something about you that might accidentally sound sexual or pervy when your out in public by yourself and your not that big of a guy and who knows what they'll think about who and what you really are or what they'll do. actually when it comes to that situation i suppose it doesn't matter what you call yourself.

God forbid anyone trans have a sex drive. I am sure that a sex drive or any acknowledgement of sex whatsoever will scar you as a pervert forever.
God forbid anyone ever think a trans person has even thought about sex because sex is soooo dirty and disgusting.

BLAH

Sex is a natural and healthy part of the human existance.

A couple years ago, a few trans folk worked to replace the term 'transsexual' and 'gender identity disorder', to Henry Benjamin Syndrome.  For some reason it never caught on.  I actually like the Syndrome idea as it speaks to a medical condition vs. a disorder or anything with 'sexual' in the term.  I've even used the syndrome designation in explaning my situation to ones that I knew would not understand otherwise. 

Quote from: mowdan6 on May 11, 2011, 08:37:53 AM
A couple years ago, a few trans folk worked to replace the term 'transsexual' and 'gender identity disorder', to Henry Benjamin Syndrome.  For some reason it never caught on.  I actually like the Syndrome idea as it speaks to a medical condition vs. a disorder or anything with 'sexual' in the term.  I've even used the syndrome designation in explaning my situation to ones that I knew would not understand otherwise.

Actually HBS (Harry Benjamin Syndrome) is an intersex condition, different from transsexualism (transgender) or gender identity disorder.  It probably didn't catch on because it was a specific condition that doesn't fit most trans people.  But that's just speculation, I don't know the exact reasons why the term isn't used.

My issue with HBS is that it has been adopted by a group of trans folks already. They believe that SRS is the defining element of what they call 'true transsexuals'. Those who do not place primary importance to SRS above all other concerns typicaly get labeled as men.

Even though some of us are not impressed with the results and want to wait for better surgery techniques, they get called men. Those women who have medical reasons to be non op are called men. Even if it would cost your life they seem to believe that a true transwoman would place srs abouve any concern for health. If you have any reason for not getting or desireing srs then you are a man.

So I think I will pass on HBS as a designator for the issue.

The reason I like the Henry Benjamin Syndrome disignation is because, I am one of the minority within a minority, that knows only complete surgery will allow me to finally feel comfortable within my own skin.  I know most transguys, once they have chest surgery, that is all they need to be themselves.  I wish that was true for myself.  Would make life alot easier.  Life did get easier after my chest surgery in 06, but I am one of the few that know.....I need it all.  Just the way it is.  Does'nt make my journey any less or greater than anyone else's.  We all transition differently.  And always looking for the way to get those, in our lives, to understand, no matter the form, this IS a medical condition, not a choice. 

I've always concidered myself to be transsexual because transgender didn't make that much sense to me as it's not my gender that's changing it's my sex. I never liked the sexual bit of the word though because this hasn't got anything to do with that kind of sex, just my physical sex so i'm glad i've heard the term transsexed in this thread, i'm going to use that from now on.

Quote from: cynthialee on May 11, 2011, 08:08:02 AM
God forbid anyone trans have a sex drive. I am sure that a sex drive or any acknowledgement of sex whatsoever will scar you as a pervert forever.
God forbid anyone ever think a trans person has even thought about sex because sex is soooo dirty and disgusting.

BLAH

Sex is a natural and healthy part of the human existance.

well, sorry?
now i got someone mad at me.
yes it's true everyone from age 15 to the grave has a sex drive, and that it's normal but i was thinking of the wrong kind of people who would be asking what i meant about being trans if me saying I'm a guy wasn't enough. i agree with sarah7 though.