I'm still struggling with the first lessons in Kathe's cd (exercises 1-9). I can get to the A3 on the basic sounds, but it sounds as a really degraded falsetto, and when it comes to pronouncing words instead of sounds, the sylabus don't connect very well.

I'd say that the maximum pitch I can reach with a decent sound quality is of about 180-190hz / Between F3 and G3. And over that frequency is where it becomes painful (that is probably where I switch to the mickey Mouse falsetto). Is it possible to go beyond this  and increase the vocal range with training, or should I try to stay there?


When getting to 220 from a higher pitch, I have no problem, so I guess I'm doing it already in falsetto, but when trying to reach there from lower pitchs, I can easily notice the switch. I guess that also means that I have not developed a head voice. Although the chest resonance is minimal in my current way of speaking, I don't think I am moving it to the correct place.


Should I record and upload the exercise plus my crappy current voice?



Update: This is the data I can gather from my current status:

- Natural default pitch: 100 hz
- Current default pitch: 140 hz
- Vocal "break to falsetto" point: 200 hz
- Vocal Range I use for talking: 120-200 hz.

My standard voice:

I don't know anything about Kathe's cds, but your vocal muscles are not used to stretching to these pitches. It takes time and practice. My voice broke and I used to speak in low (dulcet!) tones before transition. Today, my switch to falsetto comes at G4, which I'd never dare to use to speak with unless I wanted to sound like a Minnie Mouse caricature. A3 does sound quite low to be breaking into falsetto, but I think this is simply down to practice. I'm glad you're finding time to practice.

Quote from: Crt.rnA on September 20, 2012, 05:21:59 AM
I'd say that the maximum pitch I can reach with a decent sound quality is of about 180-190hz / Between F3 and G3. And over that frequency is where it becomes painful (that is probably where I switch to the mickey Mouse falsetto). Is it possible to go beyond this  and increase the vocal range with training, or should I try to stay there?

With practice you will get higher but 180Hz - 200Hz is OK especially if you are tall for a woman. Taller women are expected to have lower toned voices. My voice is in the 180Hz - 200Hz range and I know it works with people and whilst I can move up to 220/240Hz I tend only to do it for emphasis. After more than 6 months I still have work to do but now that I use the voice everyday it is getting easier and easier. It was the switching back and forward that held me back, but once I went 24/7 I made better progress. I will continue to work at it and improve it. My voice is a 'work in progress' and yours will be too for the next couple of years.

Pitch is not vital once you are over 160Hz. Eliminate resonance and work on intonation. If you are comfortable at 200Hz then stay there. Remember this will take MONTHS of practice and you are on the first CD, not the last one.

Isabelle has started a thread on voice here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,126967.0.html and I will post a back link from there to here in case anyone there has suggestions for you.

Overdid it + flu. I'll have to wait until I recover to continue. Too much mucus and sore throat as to keep trying.

My natural tone is 100 - 120, but I rarely ever talk like that. In the voice I normally use, my range seems to be around 120-200 (See picture)

The break point in which I switch to falsetto is over 200 hz, but I can't keep that level for a long time.

This is the range I get when speaking as I am used to:



BRC, Do you mean that I need be able to reach at least 160, or that it should never go under 160,  or that I should try to stay there as the default picth? (like being on a 140-180 range with 160 as the center)


I am 5,8", smaller than the national media for men, but taller than the women media. My voice is quite fragile, I can't almost shout, booze kills it for two days, it gets strained quite easily (probably bad technique?) It always has an excess of throat mucosity and I am like a magnet for throat ailments (waiting for some alergies tests and x-rays).

Quote from: Crt.rnA on September 21, 2012, 03:03:40 AM
BRC, Do you mean that I need be able to reach at least 160, or that it should never go under 160,  or that I should try to stay there as the default picth? (like being on a 140-180 range with 160 as the center)

I mean that your female voice should never go below 160Hz. For a lower toned female voice you can be in the range 160Hz to 200Hz if you can lose the chest resonance and get the intonation right. Aim for 160 - 200Hz with 180Hz as being the centre. Any tones above are OK, but stay above 160Hz.

I have a deep natural voice and I can reach 220 hz without going into falsetto- in fact I can't really do falsetto, BUT I still can't do a feminine voice and always get read on the phone. So, I wouldn't spend too much time concentrating on the pitch. Put the analysers on a radio broadcast - you'll find there's very little difference in pitch

However I think it's possible to get by by using other techniques. I can manage a voice which I don't think stands out as male. Concentrate on moving your voice from the throat to the front teeth. I spent ten years trying to get into falsetto so I could come down from it with no success at all.

I currently have a sore throat, in fact I usually do but I can speak without using my throat at all. 

If want a higher pitch, I suggest that you find the threshold at which you switch to falsetto and then pull back slightly to a point at which it doesn't switch. At this safe point, try singing from below to this pitch everyday day to strengthen the vocal cord muscles at this pitch and then gradually edge forward a few hertz every week.

Even now, I need to warm up in the morning. So what I do is sing to the pitch just below the falsetto threshold to stretch the muscles a bit. A piano keyboard handy helps a bit too.

Quote from: Felicitá on September 21, 2012, 09:53:54 AM
If want a higher pitch, I suggest that you find the threshold at which you switch to falsetto and then pull back slightly to a point at which it doesn't switch.

200 hz, but being there is so painful and unstable... I can sustain a sound there with some pain, but not articulate words withtout going back to 100.

I guess it is beyond my limitations. I'll always be unpassable. And the surgeries are even worse.

Quote from: Crt.rnA on September 21, 2012, 03:23:01 PM
200 hz, but being there is so painful and unstable... I can sustain a sound there with some pain, but not articulate words withtout going back to 100.

I guess it is beyond my limitations. I'll always be unpassable. And the surgeries are even worse.

Um no. If there is any reason you will "always be unpassable" it is because you routinely convince yourself that you are, and eventually you won't take the steps to not make it so, not because of some inherent deficit within you.

200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to. I usually talk around the 300-400hz, and will slip up to 440 when excited or nervous, isn't that what people tune their instruments to? I think it is. My voice won't make it to the G below middle C. I've tried, I just croak out. And likewise, I can't make it to the 2nd E above middle C. So that's my range. I normaly speak with a pitch around middle C to that G right above it. I'm pretty sure my voice never changed. I always really hated my voice, I have a wierd accent. And I hated it even more before I realized I was a woman because I would always get "mam" on the phone.

Quote from: Hippolover25 on September 21, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to..

Very helpful.   

Quote from: Hippolover25 on September 21, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to. I usually talk around the 300-400hz, and will slip up to 440 when excited or nervous, isn't that what people tune their instruments to? I think it is. My voice won't make it to the G below middle C. I've tried, I just croak out. And likewise, I can't make it to the 2nd E above middle C. So that's my range. I normaly speak with a pitch around middle C to that G right above it. I'm pretty sure my voice never changed. I always really hated my voice, I have a wierd accent. And I hated it even more before I realized I was a woman because I would always get "mam" on the phone.

I think you need to recheck your numbers, it's  unsual for even a biological female to speak in the ranges you pointed out.

Quote from: Hippolover25 on September 21, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to. I usually talk around the 300-400hz, and will slip up to 440 when excited or nervous, isn't that what people tune their instruments to? I think it is. My voice won't make it to the G below middle C.

Quote from: Ave on September 21, 2012, 04:28:57 PM
I think you need to recheck your numbers, it's  unsual for even a biological female to speak in the ranges you pointed out.

I agree. Middle C is 261Hz. The G below middle C is 200Hz.

here's a sample of my voice analyzed

It's not the day to day that is the problem. I have always been an A3, and passible. It's that darn telephone. It lowers the voice by 10 semitones, and unless the resonance is higher, not the pitch; I still sound male. So an A3 can drop to an F2 or below quite easily on the phone, or other recording device.

A C string on a Cello, sounds a lot different than a C string on a violin, even though they are both C strings. It has a lot to do with the sound box, that the string is resonating over.

A variety of surgeries are available, non of them work totally on everybody.

Quote from: Keaira on September 22, 2012, 12:31:14 PM
here's a sample of my voice analyzed

The overall pattern looks female. Compare it with this spectrograph where I said the same phrase in both my male and female voices


The left pattern is my female voice, the right pattern is my male voice. Your pattern is more similar to my female one expect your pitch bottoms at 100Hz (look at the left scale). The bottom line (the one with the down-arrow and circle on it) looks to be around the 160/170Hz mark and if you can move your pitch up to be above that line or have your voice bottom out at that line then you will be in the completely female range.

It will sound weird until you get used to it.

Quote from: brc on September 23, 2012, 03:31:29 AM

The overall pattern looks female. Compare it with this spectrograph where I said the same phrase in both my male and female voices


The left pattern is my female voice, the right pattern is my male voice. Your pattern is more similar to my female one expect your pitch bottoms at 100Hz (look at the left scale). The bottom line (the one with the down-arrow and circle on it) looks to be around the 160/170Hz mark and if you can move your pitch up to be above that line or have your voice bottom out at that line then you will be in the completely female range.

It will sound weird until you get used to it.

Interesting. I dont have too far to shift my voice to stay in the female range at all then.

Quote from: Keaira on September 23, 2012, 10:04:12 AM
Interesting. I dont have too far to shift my voice to stay in the female range at all then.

About 50Hz to 60Hz is enough. The bottom of the female range is generally thought to be about 165Hz

My pitch didn't move up a lot. The pitch isn't what genders a voice, it's the resonance. It's getting the head voice, which raising your adams apple is part of doing this. A nice by product is, speaking this way all the time makes your adams apple all but disappear after a while or at least mine did.

One trick I did when learning was to swallow, then try to hold your adams apple up and speak in a "hum voice". Speak phrases like "Nim nim one" and nim,nim count up to ten in a monotone at the target pitch. Try to extend the M hum and carry it into the next word. I do nim, nim exercises still and do a couple before I call someone on the phone just to make sure my voice is "set". The other thing that helps is to do "ah" slides from you target pitch up as high as you can and back down without breaking your voice, they do "eee" slides after. work on every vowel slide and in time your upper range will improve. I do these during my morning shower. Given women use pitch for intonation rather than volume, you need some headroom in your pitch for emphasis.

You do have to avoid dipping too low when you vary your pitch speaking. That is one of the hard things not to do. Mainly it just takes a LOT of practice and I think it would be REALLY hard to do this switching back and forth to a male voice if you aren't full time yet. I would have to work to speak in my old voice now and wouldn't want to even try

If you have a smartphone, download any number of free Tuner apps to tell you the pitch of things... very handy. Find some recordings online of various women and you'll see that huge range of frequencies... and some super low ones.... lana del rey (a fave of mine) for instance sings down to 150 hrz! Surprising, anyway.

Other thing, I don't think you have any use for falsetto as a mtf. That is as much of a giveaway as speaking at 120htz, IMHO.